I've been waiting for something like this for a while since I didn't want the coated aluminum boiler, and this video was recommended with perfect timing. I'm heading to your page to order one now. Super excited for my first espresso machine! ❤
If you can source the boiler by itself to sell, I am 100% sure there a many Gaggia owners here in the UK that will buy them to upgrade their machine! This is one the ultimate upgrades like the PID, which I already have, from Mr Shades. I really really want one!
Hoping to get one of the new machines fully loaded with continuous steam etc soon. Yhey look great and I really want start to broaden my coffee making skills! Its which grinder to get i'm more confused about lol
What PID do you recommend for the new E24, and where do I get one in the UK? Does having the PID really make much difference to the flavour of an espresso? Surely, once you have the right timing and grind set up, it will always be good anyway isn't it? If PID was that important, why don't Gaggia just put one on themselves? I suppose it does take out the guesswork.
This brass boiler is a game changer especially for espresso drinkers ! Having a PID with an Aluminium boiler did not provide enough stability. If its true what you say about the boiler beingvable to go in older classics than I'm buying one for my 2006.
it is not if you have gaggiuino. it is far far better than pid mods. gaggiuino already compensated all brass thermal 'advantages' also, and still far superior to pid + dimmer mod.
@@CH-yp5by because typical PID is too generic and is too slow for such use case, predictive algo in gaggiuino software is specificaly tuned for the thermal responsiveness of the gagia's alu boiler depending on the amount of water is going to provide to the boiler, PID is simply dumb, it has no idea how much water you are going to pour to the boiler, it needs to wait for the temperature to drop, then it tries to react to the changes, and slowly tune. It is ok for your home radiator, but not for such tiny system like gaggia's boiler. gaggiuino software controls water pump, valve, pressure and heater, it can start heating before PID would even nottice temperature change in the temperature sensor.
@@deviceundertest Are you aware that PID is actually just an algorithm, P Proportional, I Integral and D Derivative which can be controlled / tuned with you own inputs by a generic controller and more commonly now by software on numerous applications such as drones and manufacturing plant assembly lines using robotics? Even the software developers at Zero Bit have coded a PID algorithm in every version of Gaggiuino, Arduino, STM32 Black Pill and the Next Monday V.4. They have just coded it so that when you do the set up it learns how much the boiler cools down when you run water through a shot its nothing that special or new. This can actually be done the same way with a generic PID controller but running a 30 second shot during auto tune.
@@CH-yp5by that is great you did some study on this, but I think you actually confirmed that the implementation is still better than not tuned typical PID. I would learn more if you initiate discussion on this on technical channel, and let them teach us how gaggiuino is better than typical PID, because they claim it is better. I also wonder if they are out of the box ready to different boilder type - brass one.
I used a GCP PRO with aluminium boiler and the PID , and now I use E24 and the same PID. With the new brass boiler , even after letting it heat for 10 minutes, and the temperature is stable, even for short flushes of water, the temperature drops very fast. I mean is not an issue with the PID settings (which I tried different ones, and autotune), I mean it seems that with the brass, it senses that small amounts of water , changes very fast the temperature messured by the probe of the PID. I don;t know why this happens because I know brass has lower thermal conductivity, but now it seems the oposit way. for another example, you heat the boiler for 10 minutes to 95 degrees C, and then set the temperature to 50 degrees C, it drops the temperature just like aluminium (no pb here), but just a flush of water it drops way fast than aluminium. Must Gaggia have changed where the water pass in the groupHead? second difference that I noticed compared to aluminium. on the aluminium boiler , the offset used was 5 degrees C when on 100 Degrees water starts to steam on group. with the brass boiler i god 10 degrees offset, when on 100C the water start to steam. of course tested after 10 minutes of heating. Can you share your experience and the new PID settings for brass? thank you
try the PID inputs of P: 2.4 I: 40 D: 10, should not drop more than 2 degrees over 40 second shot and will go back up to the set point during it. i usually have my set point at 96 so taht the average temp during the entire shot is about 94.5
Just got fed this video, Anthony, well done! I an very familiar with PID controllers as I use them in brewing. If set up correctly, they should allow the aluminum boiler to match the stability of a brass boiler since the PID algorithm will hold a set point to plus or minus 0.5 degree C with either boiler. Yes, the aluminium boiler will cycle more frequently, but the temperature stability should be the same as measured at the group head with proper preheating. I wish Gaggia had put the value in a PID rather than a brass boiler and no PID. Cheers!
@@TheHomeBaristas o.1 degree during a shot? I find that very hard to to believe, the PID controllers you sell are no different to mine. Whats your PID inputs?
As a medical student looking to get into espresso with a big fable for tech, I am amazed to finally see the one machine I will be getting. Health-wise amazing job by Gaggia to go for lead free boilers!! Just wondering: will the gaggiuino modification still be appliable to this the same way it used to?
Of course Gaggiuino would work here too. I guesstimate that the increased heat capacity of the new boiler (metal + water) would provide the need for some tweaks to the PID parameters. But it should work as-is also. Otherwise absolutely no other changes are needed.
@@TheHomeBaristas Do you have an idea of what the price point will be for a new brass boiler and group head to upgrade a machine? I've been offered a non-working v1 Classic with the boiler and head missing for next to nothing
@@paulstimpson830 Not sure yet, boiler is likely to be somewhere between £100 and £170 is my guess and a new grouphead is around £40 new. (you will need the steel grouphead for the V1, otherwise the brass grouphead will show as the Evo/E24 have a steel plate that covers it.
All these years and a Rancilio Silvia always had a 300ml brass boiler. Mmmmmmm. I wonder what that says about all these changes and aspects related to stability and their marketing.
Sadly the pid doesn’t work well in a Silvia due to the boiler and internal heating element. That’s why the Classic is so popular. This now adds another
@@fuzzywuzzy599 in the Silvia because the heating element is internal and the thermocouple attaches to the exterior boiler, there is a huge lag in response when it was tested. The Classic has the element on the exterior of the boiler along with the thermocouple, so far less lag.
@@TheHomeBaristas So the element is bonded to the boiler like in modern flat bottom kettles, heating the boiler walls directly, measured by the thermocouple, that heat the water. Rather than the element being immersed in the water heating the water, which heats the boiler walls, measured by the thermocouple. Is that right?
@@fuzzywuzzy599 no necessarily, it is not as simple. it is just cheaper to make thermocouple integrated in the bottom of the kettle. huge lag in response for Silva was also because brass has low thermal conductivity.
Not `a common problem, I have a machine from 2006 and have had no problems. It leaks if you turn it turn to hard, pretty much most commerical machine do the same becasue people turn them to hard too many times.
I've been waiting for something like this for a while since I didn't want the coated aluminum boiler, and this video was recommended with perfect timing. I'm heading to your page to order one now. Super excited for my first espresso machine! ❤
Glad I could help! I also supply a guide on using to get the best from the classic
@TheHomeBaristas thank you! Looking forward to your guide and getting the best espresso 😊
If you can source the boiler by itself to sell, I am 100% sure there a many Gaggia owners here in the UK that will buy them to upgrade their machine! This is one the ultimate upgrades like the PID, which I already have, from Mr Shades. I really really want one!
@@CH-yp5by once available. Likely new year though
great machine
Going to order one with full spec
Great presentation Anthony ,well done 👍
@@tokomac7728 thank you. Happy to help
Hoping to get one of the new machines fully loaded with continuous steam etc soon. Yhey look great and I really want start to broaden my coffee making skills! Its which grinder to get i'm more confused about lol
@@76sagman I’d recommend the df64.
What PID do you recommend for the new E24, and where do I get one in the UK? Does having the PID really make much difference to the flavour of an espresso? Surely, once you have the right timing and grind set up, it will always be good anyway isn't it? If PID was that important, why don't Gaggia just put one on themselves? I suppose it does take out the guesswork.
This brass boiler is a game changer especially for espresso drinkers !
Having a PID with an Aluminium boiler did not provide enough stability. If its true what you say about the boiler beingvable to go in older classics than I'm buying one for my 2006.
it is not if you have gaggiuino. it is far far better than pid mods. gaggiuino already compensated all brass thermal 'advantages' also, and still far superior to pid + dimmer mod.
@@deviceundertest yeah really, can you explain how?
@@CH-yp5by because typical PID is too generic and is too slow for such use case, predictive algo in gaggiuino software is specificaly tuned for the thermal responsiveness of the gagia's alu boiler depending on the amount of water is going to provide to the boiler, PID is simply dumb, it has no idea how much water you are going to pour to the boiler, it needs to wait for the temperature to drop, then it tries to react to the changes, and slowly tune. It is ok for your home radiator, but not for such tiny system like gaggia's boiler. gaggiuino software controls water pump, valve, pressure and heater, it can start heating before PID would even nottice temperature change in the temperature sensor.
@@deviceundertest Are you aware that PID is actually just an algorithm, P Proportional, I Integral and D Derivative which can be controlled / tuned with you own inputs by a generic controller and more commonly now by software on numerous applications such as drones and manufacturing plant assembly lines using robotics? Even the software developers at Zero Bit have coded a PID algorithm in every version of Gaggiuino, Arduino, STM32 Black Pill and the Next Monday V.4. They have just coded it so that when you do the set up it learns how much the boiler cools down when you run water through a shot its nothing that special or new. This can actually be done the same way with a generic PID controller but running a 30 second shot during auto tune.
@@CH-yp5by that is great you did some study on this, but I think you actually confirmed that the implementation is still better than not tuned typical PID. I would learn more if you initiate discussion on this on technical channel, and let them teach us how gaggiuino is better than typical PID, because they claim it is better. I also wonder if they are out of the box ready to different boilder type - brass one.
I used a GCP PRO with aluminium boiler and the PID , and now I use E24 and the same PID. With the new brass boiler , even after letting it heat for 10 minutes, and the temperature is stable, even for short flushes of water, the temperature drops very fast. I mean is not an issue with the PID settings (which I tried different ones, and autotune), I mean it seems that with the brass, it senses that small amounts of water , changes very fast the temperature messured by the probe of the PID. I don;t know why this happens because I know brass has lower thermal conductivity, but now it seems the oposit way.
for another example, you heat the boiler for 10 minutes to 95 degrees C, and then set the temperature to 50 degrees C, it drops the temperature just like aluminium (no pb here), but just a flush of water it drops way fast than aluminium. Must Gaggia have changed where the water pass in the groupHead?
second difference that I noticed compared to aluminium. on the aluminium boiler , the offset used was 5 degrees C when on 100 Degrees water starts to steam on group. with the brass boiler i god 10 degrees offset, when on 100C the water start to steam. of course tested after 10 minutes of heating.
Can you share your experience and the new PID settings for brass?
thank you
try the PID inputs of P: 2.4 I: 40 D: 10, should not drop more than 2 degrees over 40 second shot and will go back up to the set point during it. i usually have my set point at 96 so taht the average temp during the entire shot is about 94.5
Just got fed this video, Anthony, well done! I an very familiar with PID controllers as I use them in brewing. If set up correctly, they should allow the aluminum boiler to match the stability of a brass boiler since the PID algorithm will hold a set point to plus or minus 0.5 degree C with either boiler. Yes, the aluminium boiler will cycle more frequently, but the temperature stability should be the same as measured at the group head with proper preheating. I wish Gaggia had put the value in a PID rather than a brass boiler and no PID. Cheers!
@@glleon80517 the pids I use set to 0.1 and looking forward to testing the brass with it.
You can hold your set point by 0.5 C during a full shot with a an Aluminum boiler? What yours P I D inputs???
@@TheHomeBaristas o.1 degree during a shot? I find that very hard to to believe, the PID controllers you sell are no different to mine. Whats your PID inputs?
Sure took Gaggia a very long time... considering the fact that most espresso machines of that level or above had a brass boiler since forever.
As a medical student looking to get into espresso with a big fable for tech, I am amazed to finally see the one machine I will be getting. Health-wise amazing job by Gaggia to go for lead free boilers!!
Just wondering: will the gaggiuino modification still be appliable to this the same way it used to?
Of course Gaggiuino would work here too. I guesstimate that the increased heat capacity of the new boiler (metal + water) would provide the need for some tweaks to the PID parameters. But it should work as-is also. Otherwise absolutely no other changes are needed.
Great video. Gaggia should place it on their page 🦧
Can it produce enough steam when the light comes on? Or does it still run out half way through and require guessing and pre-light milk steaming!
How many shots can you do with this one back to back? Does it need time between each extraction to heat up again?
@@Krrish85 by the time you’ve ground the next beans and prepped it will be ready for the next shot.
I cant get a straight answer from anywhere perhaps you know, does the E24 model have the coating on the inside of the boiler ?
Although I don’t know 100% I’ve seen plenty of other people say there is no coating on the brass
There's no coating inside the brass boiler. (or the aluminium one now too)
Nope, doesn't need it. Brass is much more durable than aluminum (it's not prone to scale or pitting the way Al is).
How can you tell (from the box sticker) if the machine is indeed the new E24 with the brass boiler or the older model with the aluminum boiler?
Has E24 on the box next to model number etc. if it doesn’t have it then it won’t be the E24. Also surely when buying the seller will state if it is.
Any word on aftermarket brass boilers? I have a 1 year old EVO 🙄
@@ryananderson1518 not yet available in the uk. Likely to be the new year
Do you sell the brass boiler? I’d love to swap the aluminium one in my old Gaggia.
it's not available yet. Likely to be in the new year.
@@TheHomeBaristas Do you have an idea of what the price point will be for a new brass boiler and group head to upgrade a machine? I've been offered a non-working v1 Classic with the boiler and head missing for next to nothing
@@paulstimpson830 Not sure yet, boiler is likely to be somewhere between £100 and £170 is my guess and a new grouphead is around £40 new. (you will need the steel grouphead for the V1, otherwise the brass grouphead will show as the Evo/E24 have a steel plate that covers it.
I’ll be getting hold of a few brass boilers in 2 weeks but they’re £160 if interested
@@FrankWoodPhotography I’ll be getting hold of a few brass boilers in 2 weeks but they’re £160 if interested
Hi. Is the 9 bar OPV mod still as easy to do on the E24?
@@p2shoe same
@@TheHomeBaristas I thought the all new E24 Gaggia come set to 9bar as standard now ?
@@tomjohnson4681 all of them or just those destined for the US?
@@temra2000 I know the ones in the US are set to 9 bar, so I would think the ones in Europe are also.
@@tomjohnson4681no it’s just the European ones
Isnt the EVO the same with brass boiler?
Evo has the aluminium boiler
. The E24 is brass
All these years and a Rancilio Silvia always had a 300ml brass boiler. Mmmmmmm. I wonder what that says about all these changes and aspects related to stability and their marketing.
Sadly the pid doesn’t work well in a Silvia due to the boiler and internal heating element. That’s why the Classic is so popular. This now adds another
@TheHomeBaristas what about the boiler and heating element?
@@fuzzywuzzy599 in the Silvia because the heating element is internal and the thermocouple attaches to the exterior boiler, there is a huge lag in response when it was tested. The Classic has the element on the exterior of the boiler along with the thermocouple, so far less lag.
@@TheHomeBaristas So the element is bonded to the boiler like in modern flat bottom kettles, heating the boiler walls directly, measured by the thermocouple, that heat the water. Rather than the element being immersed in the water heating the water, which heats the boiler walls, measured by the thermocouple. Is that right?
@@fuzzywuzzy599 no necessarily, it is not as simple. it is just cheaper to make thermocouple integrated in the bottom of the kettle. huge lag in response for Silva was also because brass has low thermal conductivity.
Hello! Did they fix the leaking steam valve?
Not `a common problem, I have a machine from 2006 and have had no problems. It leaks if you turn it turn to hard, pretty much most commerical machine do the same becasue people turn them to hard too many times.
Can the brass boiler be fitted to the Kitchenaid artisan also?
Get rid of the unnecessary music while you’re talking. Distracting and annoying.