This channel was bout to go broke, he dropped a video explaining how this channel will be more technical and simple than it used to be. The days of knockoff TopGear are over for now unfortunately. Truly was the best channel on UA-cam while it lasted. RIP
Pretty sure he got it wrong by saying toe out setting helps initiate a turn. Toe out is for corner exit, toe in is for entry. So, I don’t think this guy should explain it.
They called it "HICAS" High Capacity Actively Controlled Steering) is Nissan's rear wheel steering system[1][2] found on cars ranging from the more recent Skyline and Fairlady Z (300ZX) iterations to smaller models like the Nissan Cefiro (A31), 240SX/Silvia (S13 & S15)/180SX and Nissan Serena/Nissan Largo. It is also found on models from Nissan's Infiniti division, such as the Q45, M45/M35 and G35/G37. Unlike many other four wheel steering systems, HICAS and Super HICAS are fitted to improve handling
@@crisnmaryfam7344 That only gave them 4 wheel steering, it did not adjust camber at all, and while it theoretically *could* be used to adjust toe, it was not used for that either, probably due to reliability concerns (and they were right about those concerns, just try to find a working HICAS system nowadays lmao)
@@PlittHD I hope you're right, but November/December are the highest paying months and their last video was in October. Edit: Found Callum on insta, he quit and says a few other roles were made redundant. :(
This should be on driver61, if this channel is dead give us a video that explains what happened. It would be great if this channel could keep its fun and nonsense content.
Changing toe at the hubs is no different from changing steering angle with the tie rod, so for steer-by-wire installations this doesn't require any hardware in the hub, just separate left and right actuators. Some cars already do this, using hardware from ZF and perhaps others, mostly for packaging reasons. Changing camber can also be done with suspension links. This is most practical for single links, but some multi-link suspension designs do have a single upper lateral link per side. Force on this link will be high compared to a steering tie rod, so a high-force short-travel actuator would be required.
To me, it'd make more sense to have a system mounted inboard and acting on the lower a-arms, as this could easily perform the task of adjusting camber and toe as well as rear steering, and it'd not require additional unsprung mass and engineering it to withstand the extra stress
@@aygwm There's that but there is a lot more to it. Things like pin offset, steering angle inclination, scrub radius, etc. all play a part. It is totally possible to have a car with no caster or even positive caster that still returns to center on it's own, it's just usually undesirable for other reasons but there have been exceptions.
@@wingracer1614interesting. I always thought that toe in made a car twitchier and quicker to turn in but he said the opposite in the video... have I got it backwards?
You don't have to do it at the hub, you could do the adjustments at the suspension pick ups on the chassis. Pretty sure you could move your lower or upper wishbones in and out to adjust camber. It will affect Toe so naturally you have to be able to adjust that as well. The adjustments to the steering arm are a little bit more complex but if you already running drive by wire and had 2 steering box/racks you could control each individually to adjust toe on the fly. Ackermann's angle means very little with this setup so you can choose a low drag setup or a high angle setup to try pump heat into the tyre. I can see how it makes several seconds a lap difference!
Yes but now you have multiple actuators each doing a single thing. That's rather heavy, takes up a lot of space and is just plain inelegant. This is a very small, single component that can do it all.
Completly agree motorised tie rods would even enable to change the front alignments on the fly at a very low cost in dollars and unsuspended weight, maybe i should work for Lambo ;-)
@@wingracer1614 I disagree, having that mechanism in the hub adds unsprung weight which is bad for performance. Also the hub is exposed to a lot more force and heat meaning it has to be heavy duty and still will be more prone to failure. So while yes you would need two actuators per wheel instead of one, they can be much smaller, simple, and would add virtually nothing to unsprung weight. In this regard it is the far more elegant and reliable solution. Even from a service perspective, when your hub bearings need replacement do you want to buy and replace this monster dynamic hub assembly, as opposed to maybe a single rod actuator (assuming one ever went bad). A well engineered rod actuator could easily last the life of the car however, with hub bearings it's not so much a matter of if you will need to replace your hub bearings, it's more a matter of when (especially for cars the see track duty).
I am not surprised by the introduction of that tech, what i am most surprised with is the fact that it's actually Lamborghini who came up with a working idea. Usually when it comes to mechanical engineering it's Audi or Porsche who come up with a revolutionary technology. Granted they are all under the same roof of VW, but it's nice to see that there is some different areas of innovation being worked at by the different brands at VAG.
Sounds like extremely cool tech. I'd have expected this to be on Driver61? And yes I have seen the community post 2 weeks ago. It'll be interesting to see how you differentiate the 2 channels going forwards :)
Just subscribed to overdrive. Woohoo! It seemed a lot like your other videos but I still love the way you put together your videos. Really, putting the technical idea into the terms that become a lot easier to understand. Well-done, mate🙌⚡️🙌
Revolutionary!!! You know Nissan and others had 4 wheel steering in 1989..... 4 wheel steering is on the fly adjustable alignment.. When your rear wheels turn, they are adjusting Tow.. when you turn in hard in a corner, it adjusts camber.. via the spring compression and allowing the wheel to move into a non natural resting position to allow better traction.. and thus handling.. Look up "HICAS" "innovation" lol........
@@crisnmaryfam7344 Lambo aren't claiming 4 wheel steering is new, they've had it on their cars for a while. Watch the video and pay attention next time.
Too bad Callum quit. In his goodbye post in instagram he doesn't mention Scott even once. Only thanks Will. The Overdrive channel doesn't follow him, but does follow Will. I guess Scott and Callum got into an argument en he left. Maybe do an update video, because reading through the lines in his post it looks like he didn't feel appreciated (enough). This channel was fun for the time it lasted.
holy crap 3 seconds a lap is MASSIVE especially considering they only had them on the rear end of the car. one thing yall didnt touch one was the benefits to straight line braking and accel. normally you'd have a good couple degrees of front camber, and under braking it goes even further as the front of the car dives. thats a huge comprimise for braking grip. but this could dial a bit of positive front camber under braking (and a little negative in the rear) to keep all 4 tires flat and giving incredible braking capability. the issues they have with implementing this on the front end could easily be solved by motorizing the upper control arms for camber control. (honestly, they could do that with the rear UCA and a rear toe link as well, then they wouldnt have to worry about the parts experiencing so much shock from bumps.)
After driving a car at 10/10th on the track with technology that turns the rear wheels to "help you go faster", I found the technology counter-productive... It reminds me of when F1 engineers come up with new technology to "make the car faster", but the driver now has to change their driving style to compliment the new technology... Imagine, you turn by X degrees, expecting ABC resulting behavior. However, the car turns turns X+2, or X-1, and gives you EFG behavior.... You, as a driver, feel EFG behavior, counter, to return to ABC behavior, but now with an ABC(offset) driving line.. The car constantly adjusts to your input to give a different expected behavior... You're always "fighting" the computer and electronics, to fool it to get it to do what you want... The servos that make these adjustments, would need to be fast when you turn the steering wheel fast, but slow when you're slow, and intelligent enough to not make things worse.. Add to that.... the behavior of those servos and sensors, is the same in extreme heat, verse colder temps... .. the behavior is the same on lap 1 as on lap 20 or lap 50... .. as well as at 1,000 miles, verses 30,000 miles, 60,000 miles, because things naturally wear out... ... rain and dry.. I predict, Version 1, will be terrible, and by Version 3, or 4, it will be fantastic... Maybe Lamborghini is the beta, test bed for future Porsche technology?
@@Leshic2 Changing your driving style to accommodate for a car that drives better than it used to takes very little time for a F1 driver, not even 10 minutes so this isn't a big deal at all. If a F1 driver can't change their lines or braking points a little bit to get used to what is basically a new car then idk how they got into F1 in the first place since that's what they have to do every year anyways, especially when a new era of F1 cars get launched. F1 drivers have to change their driving style all the time throughout the season as well through upgrades the manufacturers make to the car so the fact that it theoretically could be a problem if in F1 because F1 drivers have to change their driving style (because it is technology that "makes the car go faster") is nonsense. Now, when it comes to the car all of a sudden experiencing loads of new understeer/oversteer that it didn't before, then there's an issue because then you'd have to make much more significant changes to how a person drives but this isn't the case with this technology since the technology gets rid of unwanted understeer/oversteer. If you feel like you're constantly "fighting" with the car when it drives better than it did and it also drove pretty well previously, then you're not a good driver and probably need to get better of you don't want to possibly put other people on the road around you in danger. If your driving is that bad than you need help (not saying it is btw but just anybody in general).
Reminder to everyone that overdrive almost went under. There was a community post about this. I, for one, am just happy the channel is still going and making more content!
Oh wow, memory unlocked, i remember being 12 or so and experimenting the toe and camber of my Baja 5b. I had no idea what i was doing but really noticed the differences.
Usually starts out that way, especially if your self taught. You just mess around with settings not knowing how they'll effect the car's driving but as you keep doing it over the years you'll notice these consistencies and patterns and before you know it you have an intimate understanding of how everything works through experience if you keep doing it.
Amazing Idea!! It's like the 1st use of Fly by Wire systems in Aviation! If Those Gear Driven Flanges will be produced in 1st stage by forging technology, not just by CNC machining - They will be Cheaper and also very Durable!!
@@Peter-ff1tp Honda didnt "do it first" they did it at the same time as nissan.. They all share tech in japan is you didnt know that already.. Look at the Diahtsus... They make one then put every Japanese badge on it and sell it. If you wanted to be technical MAZDA made it "first" in 1983 with the "MX-02 ", it just never made it to production vehicles. Honda and Nissan both dropped theirs FOR THE OPEN MARKET, in 1988.
i could see it actually hit road cars via arms. like a little motor on toe and camber arms. not too different than rear steer on cars. that way its not 100% of the load and if one breaks its less exspensive. like they could make the camber arm way more beafy due to it being the one that takes the most hits from the road compared to the toe arm.
Veeeery cool tech. Probably not for your average VW Up! or Polo but for luxury cars, sports cars etc., I can see a place for it. At least as a selling point.
@@crisnmaryfam7344 Steering is essentially aligning/adjusting the wheels to turn the car. Dynamically adjusting camber and toe though is a different thing.
WTF happened? Will & Callum became the reason to watch this channel. The content was slowly evolving and was becoming more refined with each video. Proclaiming financial reasons for the channels demise is really shady as it was clear to see that the channel was successful or on the way to becoming financially viable if they had waited it out. So my guess is that Will was pushed out and Callum left out of protest, it’s the only logical explanation assuming the limited evidence. I would love to know the truth as this kind of content isn’t why I subscribed in the first place.
In part of the explanation of camber, I think it's important to point out that the main reason we run negative camber is for the tire deformation under lateral load. During cornering, without negative camber, the tire will deform and roll underneath the wheel somewhat, shrinking the contact patch. More negative camber minimizes this. The suspension movement also plays into it, but it's the tire deformation under lateral load during cornering that is the main reason for camber changes.
Very interesting but you forgot about the increase in unsprung weight that is a killer of handling. The problem with reliability could be helped by deeper tyre side walls like F1 complained about losing not long ago this would reduce the unsprung weight by using the tyre as a shock absorber.
It's a pretty small and light unit. Only a little bit heavier than a standard wheel hub. The grip improvements VASTLY outweigh that slight increase in unsprung weight.
I would like to have a technical view on it rather than saying "too much weight" or "naah , it's very light". Without knowing the actual increase you can't really say anything about its weight being a big disadvantage or not. Surely it should've been talked about.
Brilliant idea, I can easily see the potential performance advantages but guessing that a long-term reliable and cost effective solution will remain elusive. If only I could DIY it to my Miata or Lotus!
it could be modded into other cars. espesially multilink cars that have indipendent camber and toe allignment settings. think about the 4wheel steer in the back. to adjust toe all you would need is a little motor to pull and push an arm. that can be translated to camber to. twin wish bone style would be alot more difficult but might last longer or atleast if it fails wont cause the car to just loose a wheel. like the lambo one if it fails it could just break the hub clean off not good. but on a twin wish bone it could just act like you have no bushing in the arm which would suck if it happned in track or back roads. but it would be able to be limped to a safe spot and or home. i now am thinking how how to get something like this in my NA in a safe way.
@5150Failure i feel like not enough people appreciate the way double wishbone can take a hit, and keep on going. I had a wheel fall off my 2017 subaru, and ever since, ive prioritized double wishbone suspension setups.
You know Nissan and others had 4 wheel steering in 1989..... could probably use that system to retro fit it to a Miata.. IF you really wanted.. Mind you most Skyline owners.. Remove the system completely because its a maintenance/alignment/tire wear nightmare. Google some reviews on it....
@@crisnmaryfam7344 Thanks and aware, Nissan's solution was kind-of similar to Porsche's GT3 rear steer. But the way this video explains Lamborghini's solution, it is unique. But the salient point of extra maintenance is important as well as introducing new failure points. The more traditional double wishbone solution is still the elegant and simple solution that works well.
Well explained, awesome video. There should be a race where all restrictions are pulled but results are based on speed AND fuel economy, so you can achieve what was never thought to be possible. Like suction that kicks in in corners, hybrids, organic wings to generate the force in the direction you want, weelhubs that flip direction to cool or provide forces in corners...
actually most road cars have a tiny bit of toe (usually toe in, at least in the front) so the car goes straight even when you make minor adjustments at high speeds. it is kept at a minimum tho like 0.03°, i had a car with a bad aligment it was 0.15° and it was completely worn on the inside to the core suddenly while the rest was fine..ish with 2-3mm
These things must be a LOT heaver than normal hubs, in a place where weight is super important. I suppose you could at least partially mitigate the increased unsprung weight by mounting the springs and dampers inboard, with pushrods.
@@wingracer1614 No. There's no frickin way a pushrod outboard of a chassis-mounted rocker weighs more than an inboard coilover spring/shock. Hell, the spring alone would outweigh the pushrod. The inboard-mounted coilover in a pushrod suspension is SPRUNG weight.
@@zounds13 Stop talking about weight, it's MASS we are talking about. Mass has inertia. With a conventional coilover on the arm, any forces trying to move the suspension have to move the mass of the shock shaft, associated mounting hardware, half the mass of the spring and the lower spring perch. Move it inboard with a pushrod, all of that stuff still has to moved PLUS the mass of the pushrod and the bellcrank. You also need to realize, not all of the mass of a coilover is unsprung. Only the parts that move with the control arm are unsprung, the parts that move with the body are sprung mass.
@@wingracer1614 okay then, let’s talk mass. UNSPRUNG mass, not total mass, is the big bad thing that chassis engineers always try so hard to minimize. Coilovers are heavy. Even if you don’t count the bits that would be sprung mass in a conventional setup (and you’re right, we shouldn’t), what’s left is still significantly heavier (excuse me, “masses more”) than a well-designed rod and crank. Removing that mass from the unsprung total can only be beneficial. Yes, with the addition of the rod and crank, the total mass of the suspension is higher, but the total UNSPRUNG mass (or “weight,” for the less pedantic among us) is lower. You need to understand that low mass isn’t always the most important consideration. Wide wheels and tires have a lot more mass than narrow ones (rotational mass at that), but the increased traction they provide usually more than offsets the mass penalty. Or are you now going to try to tell us that it’s always better to use narrow wheels and tires because they have less mass?
@@zounds13 But a pushrod system doesn't just have the mass of the pushrod and crank to move. It still has to move the shock shaft, piston, half the mass of the spring, lower spring perch, etc. Just because it is no longer in line with gravity doesn't mean it's not being moved as unsprung mass. Yeah from a gravity standpoint, it is now sprung weight but the mass of all those components still has to be moved and THAT is what matters. The reason designers care about "unsprung weight" is because all that mass has inertia. That inertia resists the tire's ability to travel up to absorb a bump and also resists the tire's ability to go back down, causing it to over travel over the bump. ANYTHING attached to that tire/suspension with mass is going to increase that problem It doesn't matter if it's vertical attached to the arm or horizontal with a pushrod, it still has to move and it still has mass Your last point is totally agreeing with my original point that the gains from this system should FAR outweigh the slight losses from increased unsprung mass.
Great video, although it feels like Driver61 content and not Overdrive. I really thought this was just three friends, where one happens to be a millionaire to finance all the fun stuff. I didn’t mind that it was sprinkled with some advertising where I could become a Lord or got informed about some battery pack to survive the zombie apocalypse. I was either stupid to believe that or you had real friendship chemistry. Thanks for the past, to all that made this possible and I wish you the very best for the future. I“ll hope that Driver69 will eventually return and maybe his friends too and so does fun and the red KA. All the best ❤
It'll be interesting to drive one when the system inevitably freaks out and gives all the wheels max toe in. Someone will also figure out how to tweak the camber settings to max them out.... for durrrrrr-ifting!
A few time attack cars have electronic dampening and the engineers are able to set up the suspension corner by corner via GPS coordinates. I was chatting to one of the engineers and was blown away and the idea of try to turn a car for every corner of a track and the fact a driver has to give feed back on a dynamic car. Super cool though.
1:01 Not true. Road cars most often have a very small amount of rear toe in to aid stability. It is such a minimal amount it doesn't have a huge impact on tire life.
Sorrry but this aint it. I also refuse to believe that a youtube channel getting constistent views above 100k and averaging around 250-300k wasnt profitable especially with sponsorship segments. Even with expensive to produce videos you could have looked at making similar content cheaper.
Interesting. It made me think of the SmartStride Adjustable stride length on some Octane Fitness ellipticals. Instead of cramming your hip height and stride length into one fixed setting, you can adjust for your hip height, and the stride length changes on the fly as speed changes, which occurs naturally when walking/running at different speeds.
This ain’t it, this isn’t what (at least some) people want to see. I don’t think it was worth ruining everything just for the silly idea of driving a car upside down sometime, which might not even happen.
For road cars it would make sense to move that system to the upper and or lower suspension control arms, so that the system is better protected against jolts and vibration. The effect might be somewhat limited by moving the system, but then on the road you wouldn't need that much of a variation in alignment to improve the handling.
there is toe in on the road cars...thats putting some tension in all elements of the streeing so it doesnt rattle around on its own if there is some wear. always pushing the front wheels inward to the cars axis no matter what.
and for crashing out of the race, you really decide to use grosjean's crash which had nothing to do with wheel alignment? what a buncha distasteful youtubers y'all are 0:40
Lamborghini is one of the last manufacturers I had expected something like this from. I wouldn't have batted an eye if it came from Koenigsegg, Bugatti, Ferrari or Porsche. It seems like Lamborghini hasn't tried to innovate in at least 15-20 years, but instead felt comfortable in just making exotic looking sportscars that are somewhat "affordable" (at least in comparison to Koenigsegg and Bugatti). This looks like an innovation that could catch on and become a must-have thing in supercars in the future.... if it works, that is. Bravo!
The type of suspension used also matters when it comes to what happens with camber and toe when the suspension moves, so if it is to become a tech used widely it will then also have to be in different version or more likely any cars this may be on at first will be double wishbone suspension ones.
i thoght about this, thinking of doing a full adjustable car, not just toe and camber, also things like anti geometry... but i thought of doing it with the arms of the suspension, just like it is in every car, but with in cockpit adjustable... but this hub is increadible! i dont know how we just did it now, its so important that it should be more said than aero...
Combine this with four independent electric motors, and you will have a hell of a monster on your hands. Especially when/if batteries get lighter and higher compacity. Full toque vectoring and active alignment would be pretty crazy on the track.
- when they could achieve same moving the arms, struts and/or steering if applied to front as well this is where production deviates from racing, production looks to game rw application and racing the rules as well
Don't forget about increasing unsprung weight. Adding a complicated electronic device on a critical part like a wheel hub sounds like more problems than benefits for most people. The faster lap times and better tire wear are really neat, though.
Very cool concept, well explained, and exciting to think where we can go in the future. #wechoosehunter
and if so how many will benefit from it. i expect when saying road cars its not ment as going shopping or driving to work cars :D.
This really feels like a driver61 video and not overdrive
maybe they uploaded on the wrong channel in a time crunch 🙃
(i did not realize it was on overdrive until i saw your comment)
@@KrakenZSVsame for me
@@KrakenZSVsame
This channel was bout to go broke, he dropped a video explaining how this channel will be more technical and simple than it used to be. The days of knockoff TopGear are over for now unfortunately. Truly was the best channel on UA-cam while it lasted. RIP
@@johnkennedy2812 whats the video called where he said that? If that really is the case, then ill unfortunately have to unsubscribe :(
I actually wouldn't mind an in-depth explanation of different alignment settings and how they affect the handling of the car from this dude
He has one on the Driver61 channel.
A few months ago.
having toe in/out might reduce top speed, so this would probably help the cars also reach a few km/h more on long straights.
Pretty sure he got it wrong by saying toe out setting helps initiate a turn. Toe out is for corner exit, toe in is for entry. So, I don’t think this guy should explain it.
@@viasevenvai toe out on the rear helps the turn in
@@AndrewTSqi agree, maybe I missed him saying that, adjusting the rear toe is more rare I believe.
My Range Rover already has self adjusting Toe and Camber.
My ball joints and bushings are toast.
Nissan and others did this in 1988 and 89..... Almost 40 years ago...
They called it "HICAS" High Capacity Actively Controlled Steering) is Nissan's rear wheel steering system[1][2] found on cars ranging from the more recent Skyline and Fairlady Z (300ZX) iterations to smaller models like the Nissan Cefiro (A31), 240SX/Silvia (S13 & S15)/180SX and Nissan Serena/Nissan Largo. It is also found on models from Nissan's Infiniti division, such as the Q45, M45/M35 and G35/G37. Unlike many other four wheel steering systems, HICAS and Super HICAS are fitted to improve handling
as an audi guy my mechanic passed me the mot because he doesn't want to fix those pain in the ass bushings.
@@crisnmaryfam7344indeed, and the Mitsubishi 3000GT also had AWS
@@crisnmaryfam7344 That only gave them 4 wheel steering, it did not adjust camber at all, and while it theoretically *could* be used to adjust toe, it was not used for that either, probably due to reliability concerns (and they were right about those concerns, just try to find a working HICAS system nowadays lmao)
Sad that the channel couldn't continue as it was but glad it will do in some form. Hope the old team land on their feet.
They split?
@@PlittHD I hope you're right, but November/December are the highest paying months and their last video was in October. Edit: Found Callum on insta, he quit and says a few other roles were made redundant. :(
@@EnignumI believe they had to make Will redundant at least
It was kind of the same format as old top gear: 3 bri'ish idiots in cars
???
This feels like a driver 61 video. What happened to the fun driving videos where you did challenges?
Those were too expensive!
@@wsjudd that's a real shame....
They weren’t too expensive, he got greedy and wasted too much on the upside down kart nonsense.
@@PebelWasTaken They are going to continue it but they need more funds rn
Callum decided he wasn't getting enough money and quit ;)
Where's Will & Callum at? the chemistry you 3 have together is top gear level & the videos always end up entertaining because of it.
callum left to do other things
Will was made redundant and Callum left
@@clemensweiss6163 They made Will redundant? Wow okay, don't think I'm interested in this channel without those two tbh.
@@bezza5069this isn’t an airport you don’t need to announce your departure
If you don't like people posting their unwanted opinions a UA-cam comment section is a strange place to be.
This should be on driver61, if this channel is dead give us a video that explains what happened. It would be great if this channel could keep its fun and nonsense content.
Changing toe at the hubs is no different from changing steering angle with the tie rod, so for steer-by-wire installations this doesn't require any hardware in the hub, just separate left and right actuators. Some cars already do this, using hardware from ZF and perhaps others, mostly for packaging reasons.
Changing camber can also be done with suspension links. This is most practical for single links, but some multi-link suspension designs do have a single upper lateral link per side. Force on this link will be high compared to a steering tie rod, so a high-force short-travel actuator would be required.
To me, it'd make more sense to have a system mounted inboard and acting on the lower a-arms, as this could easily perform the task of adjusting camber and toe as well as rear steering, and it'd not require additional unsprung mass and engineering it to withstand the extra stress
Gl to Will and Callum. They'll do well.
Road cars do have a slight toe-in and caster angle at the front, this makes the steering wheel return to neutral position after cornering.
I was looking for this comment 👍
No… most road cars call for zero toe at the front. The caster helps on-center feel.
@@aygwm There's that but there is a lot more to it. Things like pin offset, steering angle inclination, scrub radius, etc. all play a part. It is totally possible to have a car with no caster or even positive caster that still returns to center on it's own, it's just usually undesirable for other reasons but there have been exceptions.
@@wingracer1614interesting. I always thought that toe in made a car twitchier and quicker to turn in but he said the opposite in the video... have I got it backwards?
@@joshb6993backwards, yes. Toe out can wander on straights, but turn in better. Toe in is more stable on center, with a slight detriment to turning.
This should have been uploaded on driver 61
You don't have to do it at the hub, you could do the adjustments at the suspension pick ups on the chassis. Pretty sure you could move your lower or upper wishbones in and out to adjust camber. It will affect Toe so naturally you have to be able to adjust that as well. The adjustments to the steering arm are a little bit more complex but if you already running drive by wire and had 2 steering box/racks you could control each individually to adjust toe on the fly. Ackermann's angle means very little with this setup so you can choose a low drag setup or a high angle setup to try pump heat into the tyre. I can see how it makes several seconds a lap difference!
Just do away with arms and use nothing but links :)
Yes but now you have multiple actuators each doing a single thing. That's rather heavy, takes up a lot of space and is just plain inelegant. This is a very small, single component that can do it all.
@@wingracer1614 just use a swashplate arrangement? Dunno, was thinking multilink would be better than arms for adjusting things
Completly agree motorised tie rods would even enable to change the front alignments on the fly at a very low cost in dollars and unsuspended weight, maybe i should work for Lambo ;-)
@@wingracer1614 I disagree, having that mechanism in the hub adds unsprung weight which is bad for performance. Also the hub is exposed to a lot more force and heat meaning it has to be heavy duty and still will be more prone to failure. So while yes you would need two actuators per wheel instead of one, they can be much smaller, simple, and would add virtually nothing to unsprung weight. In this regard it is the far more elegant and reliable solution.
Even from a service perspective, when your hub bearings need replacement do you want to buy and replace this monster dynamic hub assembly, as opposed to maybe a single rod actuator (assuming one ever went bad). A well engineered rod actuator could easily last the life of the car however, with hub bearings it's not so much a matter of if you will need to replace your hub bearings, it's more a matter of when (especially for cars the see track duty).
I really wish overdrive was able to continue in its old format but best of luck to you!
I am not surprised by the introduction of that tech, what i am most surprised with is the fact that it's actually Lamborghini who came up with a working idea. Usually when it comes to mechanical engineering it's Audi or Porsche who come up with a revolutionary technology. Granted they are all under the same roof of VW, but it's nice to see that there is some different areas of innovation being worked at by the different brands at VAG.
It'll be German my guess ZF sachs like rear wheel steering
2:23 that noise when it goes in and out 😁 subtle but brilliant!
Sounds like extremely cool tech. I'd have expected this to be on Driver61? And yes I have seen the community post 2 weeks ago. It'll be interesting to see how you differentiate the 2 channels going forwards :)
Bravo Lamborghini, ALA system was very good but this is ingenius.
Wow, really cool feature!!!
Just subscribed to overdrive. Woohoo! It seemed a lot like your other videos but I still love the way you put together your videos. Really, putting the technical idea into the terms that become a lot easier to understand. Well-done, mate🙌⚡️🙌
Very nice innovation Lamborghini! Well done!
Revolutionary!!! You know Nissan and others had 4 wheel steering in 1989..... 4 wheel steering is on the fly adjustable alignment.. When your rear wheels turn, they are adjusting Tow.. when you turn in hard in a corner, it adjusts camber.. via the spring compression and allowing the wheel to move into a non natural resting position to allow better traction.. and thus handling.. Look up "HICAS"
"innovation" lol........
@@crisnmaryfam7344 Lambo aren't claiming 4 wheel steering is new, they've had it on their cars for a while. Watch the video and pay attention next time.
Too bad Callum quit. In his goodbye post in instagram he doesn't mention Scott even once. Only thanks Will. The Overdrive channel doesn't follow him, but does follow Will. I guess Scott and Callum got into an argument en he left. Maybe do an update video, because reading through the lines in his post it looks like he didn't feel appreciated (enough).
This channel was fun for the time it lasted.
Yeah, I agree. And I personally find Scott the least interesting of the 3 here at overdrive so I think this channel is just dead now
will and callum both left overdrive
Great insight. Good to see you have a new chanel. Always enjoy your technical explanations
Commenting for the algoritm, excellent video, cheers! Hope Overdrive keeps up and healthy
holy crap 3 seconds a lap is MASSIVE especially considering they only had them on the rear end of the car. one thing yall didnt touch one was the benefits to straight line braking and accel. normally you'd have a good couple degrees of front camber, and under braking it goes even further as the front of the car dives. thats a huge comprimise for braking grip. but this could dial a bit of positive front camber under braking (and a little negative in the rear) to keep all 4 tires flat and giving incredible braking capability. the issues they have with implementing this on the front end could easily be solved by motorizing the upper control arms for camber control. (honestly, they could do that with the rear UCA and a rear toe link as well, then they wouldnt have to worry about the parts experiencing so much shock from bumps.)
After driving a car at 10/10th on the track with technology that turns the rear wheels to "help you go faster", I found the technology counter-productive...
It reminds me of when F1 engineers come up with new technology to "make the car faster", but the driver now has to change their driving style to compliment the new technology...
Imagine,
you turn by X degrees, expecting ABC resulting behavior.
However, the car turns turns X+2, or X-1, and gives you EFG behavior....
You, as a driver, feel EFG behavior,
counter, to return to ABC behavior, but now with an ABC(offset) driving line..
The car constantly adjusts to your input to give a different expected behavior...
You're always "fighting" the computer and electronics, to fool it to get it to do what you want...
The servos that make these adjustments, would need to be fast when you turn the steering wheel fast,
but slow when you're slow, and intelligent enough to not make things worse..
Add to that.... the behavior of those servos and sensors, is the same in extreme heat, verse colder temps...
.. the behavior is the same on lap 1 as on lap 20 or lap 50...
.. as well as at 1,000 miles, verses 30,000 miles, 60,000 miles, because things naturally wear out...
... rain and dry..
I predict, Version 1, will be terrible, and by Version 3, or 4, it will be fantastic...
Maybe Lamborghini is the beta, test bed for future Porsche technology?
@@Leshic2 Changing your driving style to accommodate for a car that drives better than it used to takes very little time for a F1 driver, not even 10 minutes so this isn't a big deal at all. If a F1 driver can't change their lines or braking points a little bit to get used to what is basically a new car then idk how they got into F1 in the first place since that's what they have to do every year anyways, especially when a new era of F1 cars get launched. F1 drivers have to change their driving style all the time throughout the season as well through upgrades the manufacturers make to the car so the fact that it theoretically could be a problem if in F1 because F1 drivers have to change their driving style (because it is technology that "makes the car go faster") is nonsense. Now, when it comes to the car all of a sudden experiencing loads of new understeer/oversteer that it didn't before, then there's an issue because then you'd have to make much more significant changes to how a person drives but this isn't the case with this technology since the technology gets rid of unwanted understeer/oversteer. If you feel like you're constantly "fighting" with the car when it drives better than it did and it also drove pretty well previously, then you're not a good driver and probably need to get better of you don't want to possibly put other people on the road around you in danger. If your driving is that bad than you need help (not saying it is btw but just anybody in general).
Reminder to everyone that overdrive almost went under. There was a community post about this. I, for one, am just happy the channel is still going and making more content!
Same, would be nice for will and callum to get some kind of sendoff or mention tho
Oh wow, memory unlocked, i remember being 12 or so and experimenting the toe and camber of my Baja 5b. I had no idea what i was doing but really noticed the differences.
Usually starts out that way, especially if your self taught. You just mess around with settings not knowing how they'll effect the car's driving but as you keep doing it over the years you'll notice these consistencies and patterns and before you know it you have an intimate understanding of how everything works through experience if you keep doing it.
Amazing Idea!! It's like the 1st use of Fly by Wire systems in Aviation! If Those Gear Driven Flanges will be produced in 1st stage by forging technology, not just by CNC machining - They will be Cheaper and also very Durable!!
If they can add that feature in their production car than it's not hard to believe that we can get under the 6 minute mark in Nurburdring
So if it’s rear wheel only, they can effectively act like a rear wheel steering system as well, leading to tighter slow speed turns.
Not the same thing. At all.
Rear wheel steering is very easy. Honda did it first and stuck the system on the freaking Accord.
@@Peter-ff1tp But this system can also act as rear wheel steering when required?
@@Peter-ff1tp Honda didnt "do it first" they did it at the same time as nissan.. They all share tech in japan is you didnt know that already.. Look at the Diahtsus... They make one then put every Japanese badge on it and sell it. If you wanted to be technical MAZDA made it "first" in 1983 with the "MX-02 ", it just never made it to production vehicles. Honda and Nissan both dropped theirs FOR THE OPEN MARKET, in 1988.
i could see it actually hit road cars via arms. like a little motor on toe and camber arms. not too different than rear steer on cars. that way its not 100% of the load and if one breaks its less exspensive. like they could make the camber arm way more beafy due to it being the one that takes the most hits from the road compared to the toe arm.
Great video and idea, well described.
Veeeery cool tech. Probably not for your average VW Up! or Polo but for luxury cars, sports cars etc., I can see a place for it. At least as a selling point.
Revolutionary!!! You know Nissan and others had 4 wheel steering in 1989..... All wheel steering is Essentially "adjustable alignment"...
@@crisnmaryfam7344 Steering is essentially aligning/adjusting the wheels to turn the car. Dynamically adjusting camber and toe though is a different thing.
Glad you have uploaded, but this feels like it's on the wrong channel. I appreciate its going to change but please don't be a clone. 👊
Please read the announcement from 2 weeks back in their community page
You ain’t lying, put to much camber on my rears and damn it was crazy up to 60mph, immediately adjusted it once I pitted.
Waiting for seeing you trying this new impressive technology.
WTF happened? Will & Callum became the reason to watch this channel. The content was slowly evolving and was becoming more refined with each video. Proclaiming financial reasons for the channels demise is really shady as it was clear to see that the channel was successful or on the way to becoming financially viable if they had waited it out. So my guess is that Will was pushed out and Callum left out of protest, it’s the only logical explanation assuming the limited evidence. I would love to know the truth as this kind of content isn’t why I subscribed in the first place.
This seems like content for your second channel, bring back the proper overdrive content!
Super cool idea. I can see a lot of applications for this technology in much slower speed off road vehicles too.
In part of the explanation of camber, I think it's important to point out that the main reason we run negative camber is for the tire deformation under lateral load. During cornering, without negative camber, the tire will deform and roll underneath the wheel somewhat, shrinking the contact patch. More negative camber minimizes this. The suspension movement also plays into it, but it's the tire deformation under lateral load during cornering that is the main reason for camber changes.
Very interesting but you forgot about the increase in unsprung weight that is a killer of handling. The problem with reliability could be helped by deeper tyre side walls like F1 complained about losing not long ago this would reduce the unsprung weight by using the tyre as a shock absorber.
Lamborghini engineers know more then you kid.... By far.... 🤣
It's a pretty small and light unit. Only a little bit heavier than a standard wheel hub. The grip improvements VASTLY outweigh that slight increase in unsprung weight.
I would like to have a technical view on it rather than saying "too much weight" or "naah , it's very light". Without knowing the actual increase you can't really say anything about its weight being a big disadvantage or not. Surely it should've been talked about.
@@wingracer1614can you give some figures in grams or percentage, please? You seem to have that info, or are you also guessing?
Brilliant idea, I can easily see the potential performance advantages but guessing that a long-term reliable and cost effective solution will remain elusive. If only I could DIY it to my Miata or Lotus!
it could be modded into other cars. espesially multilink cars that have indipendent camber and toe allignment settings. think about the 4wheel steer in the back. to adjust toe all you would need is a little motor to pull and push an arm. that can be translated to camber to. twin wish bone style would be alot more difficult but might last longer or atleast if it fails wont cause the car to just loose a wheel. like the lambo one if it fails it could just break the hub clean off not good. but on a twin wish bone it could just act like you have no bushing in the arm which would suck if it happned in track or back roads. but it would be able to be limped to a safe spot and or home. i now am thinking how how to get something like this in my NA in a safe way.
@5150Failure i feel like not enough people appreciate the way double wishbone can take a hit, and keep on going. I had a wheel fall off my 2017 subaru, and ever since, ive prioritized double wishbone suspension setups.
You know Nissan and others had 4 wheel steering in 1989..... could probably use that system to retro fit it to a Miata.. IF you really wanted.. Mind you most Skyline owners.. Remove the system completely because its a maintenance/alignment/tire wear nightmare. Google some reviews on it....
@@crisnmaryfam7344 Thanks and aware, Nissan's solution was kind-of similar to Porsche's GT3 rear steer. But the way this video explains Lamborghini's solution, it is unique. But the salient point of extra maintenance is important as well as introducing new failure points. The more traditional double wishbone solution is still the elegant and simple solution that works well.
@@crisnmaryfam7344 that was my point also thats just toe. that was my point tho. with a propper programing you can make it work.
Well explained, awesome video.
There should be a race where all restrictions are pulled but results are based on speed AND fuel economy, so you can achieve what was never thought to be possible. Like suction that kicks in in corners, hybrids, organic wings to generate the force in the direction you want, weelhubs that flip direction to cool or provide forces in corners...
actually most road cars have a tiny bit of toe (usually toe in, at least in the front) so the car goes straight even when you make minor adjustments at high speeds. it is kept at a minimum tho like 0.03°, i had a car with a bad aligment it was 0.15° and it was completely worn on the inside to the core suddenly while the rest was fine..ish with 2-3mm
Callum and Will being fired was a mistake imo, those two gave the Overdrive its energy that the videos needed, sad to see them go
1:29 This must be a quote from the HAAS technical manual. The whole of last season they focused entirely on lap times and not tyre life.
very cool material ^^
Extraño a Will y a Callum!
These things must be a LOT heaver than normal hubs, in a place where weight is super important. I suppose you could at least partially mitigate the increased unsprung weight by mounting the springs and dampers inboard, with pushrods.
All else being equal, pushrods INCREASE unsprung mass, not reduce it. You still have to move the mass of the pushrod
@@wingracer1614 No. There's no frickin way a pushrod outboard of a chassis-mounted rocker weighs more than an inboard coilover spring/shock. Hell, the spring alone would outweigh the pushrod.
The inboard-mounted coilover in a pushrod suspension is SPRUNG weight.
@@zounds13 Stop talking about weight, it's MASS we are talking about. Mass has inertia. With a conventional coilover on the arm, any forces trying to move the suspension have to move the mass of the shock shaft, associated mounting hardware, half the mass of the spring and the lower spring perch. Move it inboard with a pushrod, all of that stuff still has to moved PLUS the mass of the pushrod and the bellcrank.
You also need to realize, not all of the mass of a coilover is unsprung. Only the parts that move with the control arm are unsprung, the parts that move with the body are sprung mass.
@@wingracer1614 okay then, let’s talk mass. UNSPRUNG mass, not total mass, is the big bad thing that chassis engineers always try so hard to minimize. Coilovers are heavy. Even if you don’t count the bits that would be sprung mass in a conventional setup (and you’re right, we shouldn’t), what’s left is still significantly heavier (excuse me, “masses more”) than a well-designed rod and crank. Removing that mass from the unsprung total can only be beneficial. Yes, with the addition of the rod and crank, the total mass of the suspension is higher, but the total UNSPRUNG mass (or “weight,” for the less pedantic among us) is lower.
You need to understand that low mass isn’t always the most important consideration. Wide wheels and tires have a lot more mass than narrow ones (rotational mass at that), but the increased traction they provide usually more than offsets the mass penalty. Or are you now going to try to tell us that it’s always better to use narrow wheels and tires because they have less mass?
@@zounds13 But a pushrod system doesn't just have the mass of the pushrod and crank to move. It still has to move the shock shaft, piston, half the mass of the spring, lower spring perch, etc. Just because it is no longer in line with gravity doesn't mean it's not being moved as unsprung mass. Yeah from a gravity standpoint, it is now sprung weight but the mass of all those components still has to be moved and THAT is what matters. The reason designers care about "unsprung weight" is because all that mass has inertia. That inertia resists the tire's ability to travel up to absorb a bump and also resists the tire's ability to go back down, causing it to over travel over the bump. ANYTHING attached to that tire/suspension with mass is going to increase that problem It doesn't matter if it's vertical attached to the arm or horizontal with a pushrod, it still has to move and it still has mass
Your last point is totally agreeing with my original point that the gains from this system should FAR outweigh the slight losses from increased unsprung mass.
awesome explanation, had been curious how this works.
Love it when technology is used to help us be more efficient. No drama crap like giving control to AI. Just simply, tech helping people be better.
Great video, although it feels like Driver61 content and not Overdrive. I really thought this was just three friends, where one happens to be a millionaire to finance all the fun stuff. I didn’t mind that it was sprinkled with some advertising where I could become a Lord or got informed about some battery pack to survive the zombie apocalypse. I was either stupid to believe that or you had real friendship chemistry. Thanks for the past, to all that made this possible and I wish you the very best for the future. I“ll hope that Driver69 will eventually return and maybe his friends too and so does fun and the red KA. All the best ❤
It'll be interesting to drive one when the system inevitably freaks out and gives all the wheels max toe in. Someone will also figure out how to tweak the camber settings to max them out.... for durrrrrr-ifting!
A few time attack cars have electronic dampening and the engineers are able to set up the suspension corner by corner via GPS coordinates. I was chatting to one of the engineers and was blown away and the idea of try to turn a car for every corner of a track and the fact a driver has to give feed back on a dynamic car. Super cool though.
Damping, not dampening
Very informative! Thanks 😊
please let this channel rest in peace. its dead without bois
I think he posted this on the wrong channel
Very clear explanation.
Very very cool, it will be great to see it in action
1:01 Not true. Road cars most often have a very small amount of rear toe in to aid stability. It is such a minimal amount it doesn't have a huge impact on tire life.
Scott, wrong channel. Interesting as ever, but this is OVERDRIVE. Will, Callum, slightly silly, funny, competitive. That's all we want here.
Oh boy, oh boy. You are in for a treat
Who hurt you @extreme8808
0:45 I like how you chose THIS crash which, arguably, had absolutely nothing to do with the alignment XD
that combined with BOSE Suspension ... Heaven
Back to the classic basics. Like when it was Driven Media.
Sorrry but this aint it. I also refuse to believe that a youtube channel getting constistent views above 100k and averaging around 250-300k wasnt profitable especially with sponsorship segments. Even with expensive to produce videos you could have looked at making similar content cheaper.
This could be so great for all the situation! Acceleration, turning, braking and saving tire!
great video...well done
its lambroghin
come on guys atleast remove will and cam from the yt branding if they're forever gone ;(
Interesting. It made me think of the SmartStride Adjustable stride length on some Octane Fitness ellipticals. Instead of cramming your hip height and stride length into one fixed setting, you can adjust for your hip height, and the stride length changes on the fly as speed changes, which occurs naturally when walking/running at different speeds.
As a newbie to car internals, this is an Excellent explanation! Thank you!!
Glad it was helpful!
This ain’t it, this isn’t what (at least some) people want to see. I don’t think it was worth ruining everything just for the silly idea of driving a car upside down sometime, which might not even happen.
You ruined your videos getting rid of the good stuff and wasting money on the stupid go kart upside down project. Yawn.
For road cars it would make sense to move that system to the upper and or lower suspension control arms, so that the system is better protected against jolts and vibration. The effect might be somewhat limited by moving the system, but then on the road you wouldn't need that much of a variation in alignment to improve the handling.
i thought i'am watching driver61 video great job ❤
Sorry but this is not an OVERDRIVE video.
The challenge videos were too expensive and not profitable
I'm sure UA-cam has another channel for you
Better make your own channel then m8
cry about it
@@m-J_C Genius retort, we’ll done.
I remember seeing mercedes the w211 e class actively increasing negative camber as its speed increases while following it from behind many years ago.
there is toe in on the road cars...thats putting some tension in all elements of the streeing so it doesnt rattle around on its own if there is some wear. always pushing the front wheels inward to the cars axis no matter what.
and for crashing out of the race, you really decide to use grosjean's crash which had nothing to do with wheel alignment? what a buncha distasteful youtubers y'all are 0:40
I like my own comment
Neat tech, just gotta wonder about longterm reliability and maintenance procedures for this
AWESOME idea!!
Lamborghini is one of the last manufacturers I had expected something like this from. I wouldn't have batted an eye if it came from Koenigsegg, Bugatti, Ferrari or Porsche. It seems like Lamborghini hasn't tried to innovate in at least 15-20 years, but instead felt comfortable in just making exotic looking sportscars that are somewhat "affordable" (at least in comparison to Koenigsegg and Bugatti). This looks like an innovation that could catch on and become a must-have thing in supercars in the future.... if it works, that is. Bravo!
Most street cars have slight toe-in when aligned. It is very slight usually something like 1/32 of an inch. That helps the car track straight
About time, great idea
Very well described.
SW20 MR2 and 4th Gen preludes had dynamic rear toe. By weight transfering you change the toe to yaw faster.
The type of suspension used also matters when it comes to what happens with camber and toe when the suspension moves, so if it is to become a tech used widely it will then also have to be in different version or more likely any cars this may be on at first will be double wishbone suspension ones.
I really want this and active suspension in a race car, imagine how much a lap time would shorten.
That AWC carrier is clever; time gains are impressive
This is awesome. Expect that to spread very quickly in racing.
i thoght about this, thinking of doing a full adjustable car, not just toe and camber, also things like anti geometry... but i thought of doing it with the arms of the suspension, just like it is in every car, but with in cockpit adjustable... but this hub is increadible! i dont know how we just did it now, its so important that it should be more said than aero...
Combine this with four independent electric motors, and you will have a hell of a monster on your hands. Especially when/if batteries get lighter and higher compacity. Full toque vectoring and active alignment would be pretty crazy on the track.
It's interesting the motors are 48v. With the recent talks of trying to move to a 48v system in automobiles as a standard.
- when they could achieve same moving the arms, struts and/or steering if applied to front as well
this is where production deviates from racing, production looks to game rw application and racing the rules as well
Don't forget about increasing unsprung weight. Adding a complicated electronic device on a critical part like a wheel hub sounds like more problems than benefits for most people. The faster lap times and better tire wear are really neat, though.
This is probably the most innovative component in the car industry Ive heard in many many years
Something else to catch fire on a lambo :)
Very cool tech when they work out the quirks.
My experience is road cars have a bit of positive camber as when people sit in the vehicle the camber changes a bit going to almost zero