Pretty sure he got it wrong by saying toe out setting helps initiate a turn. Toe out is for corner exit, toe in is for entry. So, I don’t think this guy should explain it.
This channel was bout to go broke, he dropped a video explaining how this channel will be more technical and simple than it used to be. The days of knockoff TopGear are over for now unfortunately. Truly was the best channel on UA-cam while it lasted. RIP
They called it "HICAS" High Capacity Actively Controlled Steering) is Nissan's rear wheel steering system[1][2] found on cars ranging from the more recent Skyline and Fairlady Z (300ZX) iterations to smaller models like the Nissan Cefiro (A31), 240SX/Silvia (S13 & S15)/180SX and Nissan Serena/Nissan Largo. It is also found on models from Nissan's Infiniti division, such as the Q45, M45/M35 and G35/G37. Unlike many other four wheel steering systems, HICAS and Super HICAS are fitted to improve handling
@@crisnmaryfam7344 That only gave them 4 wheel steering, it did not adjust camber at all, and while it theoretically *could* be used to adjust toe, it was not used for that either, probably due to reliability concerns (and they were right about those concerns, just try to find a working HICAS system nowadays lmao)
@@PlittHD I hope you're right, but November/December are the highest paying months and their last video was in October. Edit: Found Callum on insta, he quit and says a few other roles were made redundant. :(
This should be on driver61, if this channel is dead give us a video that explains what happened. It would be great if this channel could keep its fun and nonsense content.
Changing toe at the hubs is no different from changing steering angle with the tie rod, so for steer-by-wire installations this doesn't require any hardware in the hub, just separate left and right actuators. Some cars already do this, using hardware from ZF and perhaps others, mostly for packaging reasons. Changing camber can also be done with suspension links. This is most practical for single links, but some multi-link suspension designs do have a single upper lateral link per side. Force on this link will be high compared to a steering tie rod, so a high-force short-travel actuator would be required.
To me, it'd make more sense to have a system mounted inboard and acting on the lower a-arms, as this could easily perform the task of adjusting camber and toe as well as rear steering, and it'd not require additional unsprung mass and engineering it to withstand the extra stress
Amazing Idea!! It's like the 1st use of Fly by Wire systems in Aviation! If Those Gear Driven Flanges will be produced in 1st stage by forging technology, not just by CNC machining - They will be Cheaper and also very Durable!!
You don't have to do it at the hub, you could do the adjustments at the suspension pick ups on the chassis. Pretty sure you could move your lower or upper wishbones in and out to adjust camber. It will affect Toe so naturally you have to be able to adjust that as well. The adjustments to the steering arm are a little bit more complex but if you already running drive by wire and had 2 steering box/racks you could control each individually to adjust toe on the fly. Ackermann's angle means very little with this setup so you can choose a low drag setup or a high angle setup to try pump heat into the tyre. I can see how it makes several seconds a lap difference!
Yes but now you have multiple actuators each doing a single thing. That's rather heavy, takes up a lot of space and is just plain inelegant. This is a very small, single component that can do it all.
Completly agree motorised tie rods would even enable to change the front alignments on the fly at a very low cost in dollars and unsuspended weight, maybe i should work for Lambo ;-)
@@wingracer1614 I disagree, having that mechanism in the hub adds unsprung weight which is bad for performance. Also the hub is exposed to a lot more force and heat meaning it has to be heavy duty and still will be more prone to failure. So while yes you would need two actuators per wheel instead of one, they can be much smaller, simple, and would add virtually nothing to unsprung weight. In this regard it is the far more elegant and reliable solution. Even from a service perspective, when your hub bearings need replacement do you want to buy and replace this monster dynamic hub assembly, as opposed to maybe a single rod actuator (assuming one ever went bad). A well engineered rod actuator could easily last the life of the car however, with hub bearings it's not so much a matter of if you will need to replace your hub bearings, it's more a matter of when (especially for cars the see track duty).
@@aygwm There's that but there is a lot more to it. Things like pin offset, steering angle inclination, scrub radius, etc. all play a part. It is totally possible to have a car with no caster or even positive caster that still returns to center on it's own, it's just usually undesirable for other reasons but there have been exceptions.
@@wingracer1614interesting. I always thought that toe in made a car twitchier and quicker to turn in but he said the opposite in the video... have I got it backwards?
I am not surprised by the introduction of that tech, what i am most surprised with is the fact that it's actually Lamborghini who came up with a working idea. Usually when it comes to mechanical engineering it's Audi or Porsche who come up with a revolutionary technology. Granted they are all under the same roof of VW, but it's nice to see that there is some different areas of innovation being worked at by the different brands at VAG.
WTF happened? Will & Callum became the reason to watch this channel. The content was slowly evolving and was becoming more refined with each video. Proclaiming financial reasons for the channels demise is really shady as it was clear to see that the channel was successful or on the way to becoming financially viable if they had waited it out. So my guess is that Will was pushed out and Callum left out of protest, it’s the only logical explanation assuming the limited evidence. I would love to know the truth as this kind of content isn’t why I subscribed in the first place.
Too bad Callum quit. In his goodbye post in instagram he doesn't mention Scott even once. Only thanks Will. The Overdrive channel doesn't follow him, but does follow Will. I guess Scott and Callum got into an argument en he left. Maybe do an update video, because reading through the lines in his post it looks like he didn't feel appreciated (enough). This channel was fun for the time it lasted.
Sounds like extremely cool tech. I'd have expected this to be on Driver61? And yes I have seen the community post 2 weeks ago. It'll be interesting to see how you differentiate the 2 channels going forwards :)
Reminder to everyone that overdrive almost went under. There was a community post about this. I, for one, am just happy the channel is still going and making more content!
holy crap 3 seconds a lap is MASSIVE especially considering they only had them on the rear end of the car. one thing yall didnt touch one was the benefits to straight line braking and accel. normally you'd have a good couple degrees of front camber, and under braking it goes even further as the front of the car dives. thats a huge comprimise for braking grip. but this could dial a bit of positive front camber under braking (and a little negative in the rear) to keep all 4 tires flat and giving incredible braking capability. the issues they have with implementing this on the front end could easily be solved by motorizing the upper control arms for camber control. (honestly, they could do that with the rear UCA and a rear toe link as well, then they wouldnt have to worry about the parts experiencing so much shock from bumps.)
After driving a car at 10/10th on the track with technology that turns the rear wheels to "help you go faster", I found the technology counter-productive... It reminds me of when F1 engineers come up with new technology to "make the car faster", but the driver now has to change their driving style to compliment the new technology... Imagine, you turn by X degrees, expecting ABC resulting behavior. However, the car turns turns X+2, or X-1, and gives you EFG behavior.... You, as a driver, feel EFG behavior, counter, to return to ABC behavior, but now with an ABC(offset) driving line.. The car constantly adjusts to your input to give a different expected behavior... You're always "fighting" the computer and electronics, to fool it to get it to do what you want... The servos that make these adjustments, would need to be fast when you turn the steering wheel fast, but slow when you're slow, and intelligent enough to not make things worse.. Add to that.... the behavior of those servos and sensors, is the same in extreme heat, verse colder temps... .. the behavior is the same on lap 1 as on lap 20 or lap 50... .. as well as at 1,000 miles, verses 30,000 miles, 60,000 miles, because things naturally wear out... ... rain and dry.. I predict, Version 1, will be terrible, and by Version 3, or 4, it will be fantastic... Maybe Lamborghini is the beta, test bed for future Porsche technology?
@@Leshic2 Changing your driving style to accommodate for a car that drives better than it used to takes very little time for a F1 driver, not even 10 minutes so this isn't a big deal at all. If a F1 driver can't change their lines or braking points a little bit to get used to what is basically a new car then idk how they got into F1 in the first place since that's what they have to do every year anyways, especially when a new era of F1 cars get launched. F1 drivers have to change their driving style all the time throughout the season as well through upgrades the manufacturers make to the car so the fact that it theoretically could be a problem if in F1 because F1 drivers have to change their driving style (because it is technology that "makes the car go faster") is nonsense. Now, when it comes to the car all of a sudden experiencing loads of new understeer/oversteer that it didn't before, then there's an issue because then you'd have to make much more significant changes to how a person drives but this isn't the case with this technology since the technology gets rid of unwanted understeer/oversteer. If you feel like you're constantly "fighting" with the car when it drives better than it did and it also drove pretty well previously, then you're not a good driver and probably need to get better of you don't want to possibly put other people on the road around you in danger. If your driving is that bad than you need help (not saying it is btw but just anybody in general).
i could see it actually hit road cars via arms. like a little motor on toe and camber arms. not too different than rear steer on cars. that way its not 100% of the load and if one breaks its less exspensive. like they could make the camber arm way more beafy due to it being the one that takes the most hits from the road compared to the toe arm.
Revolutionary!!! You know Nissan and others had 4 wheel steering in 1989..... 4 wheel steering is on the fly adjustable alignment.. When your rear wheels turn, they are adjusting Tow.. when you turn in hard in a corner, it adjusts camber.. via the spring compression and allowing the wheel to move into a non natural resting position to allow better traction.. and thus handling.. Look up "HICAS" "innovation" lol........
@@crisnmaryfam7344 Lambo aren't claiming 4 wheel steering is new, they've had it on their cars for a while. Watch the video and pay attention next time.
Very interesting but you forgot about the increase in unsprung weight that is a killer of handling. The problem with reliability could be helped by deeper tyre side walls like F1 complained about losing not long ago this would reduce the unsprung weight by using the tyre as a shock absorber.
It's a pretty small and light unit. Only a little bit heavier than a standard wheel hub. The grip improvements VASTLY outweigh that slight increase in unsprung weight.
I would like to have a technical view on it rather than saying "too much weight" or "naah , it's very light". Without knowing the actual increase you can't really say anything about its weight being a big disadvantage or not. Surely it should've been talked about.
Don't forget about increasing unsprung weight. Adding a complicated electronic device on a critical part like a wheel hub sounds like more problems than benefits for most people. The faster lap times and better tire wear are really neat, though.
Lamborghini is one of the last manufacturers I had expected something like this from. I wouldn't have batted an eye if it came from Koenigsegg, Bugatti, Ferrari or Porsche. It seems like Lamborghini hasn't tried to innovate in at least 15-20 years, but instead felt comfortable in just making exotic looking sportscars that are somewhat "affordable" (at least in comparison to Koenigsegg and Bugatti). This looks like an innovation that could catch on and become a must-have thing in supercars in the future.... if it works, that is. Bravo!
@@Peter-ff1tp Honda didnt "do it first" they did it at the same time as nissan.. They all share tech in japan is you didnt know that already.. Look at the Diahtsus... They make one then put every Japanese badge on it and sell it. If you wanted to be technical MAZDA made it "first" in 1983 with the "MX-02 ", it just never made it to production vehicles. Honda and Nissan both dropped theirs FOR THE OPEN MARKET, in 1988.
actually most road cars have a tiny bit of toe (usually toe in, at least in the front) so the car goes straight even when you make minor adjustments at high speeds. it is kept at a minimum tho like 0.03°, i had a car with a bad aligment it was 0.15° and it was completely worn on the inside to the core suddenly while the rest was fine..ish with 2-3mm
Great video, although it feels like Driver61 content and not Overdrive. I really thought this was just three friends, where one happens to be a millionaire to finance all the fun stuff. I didn’t mind that it was sprinkled with some advertising where I could become a Lord or got informed about some battery pack to survive the zombie apocalypse. I was either stupid to believe that or you had real friendship chemistry. Thanks for the past, to all that made this possible and I wish you the very best for the future. I“ll hope that Driver69 will eventually return and maybe his friends too and so does fun and the red KA. All the best ❤
Veeeery cool tech. Probably not for your average VW Up! or Polo but for luxury cars, sports cars etc., I can see a place for it. At least as a selling point.
@@crisnmaryfam7344 Steering is essentially aligning/adjusting the wheels to turn the car. Dynamically adjusting camber and toe though is a different thing.
In part of the explanation of camber, I think it's important to point out that the main reason we run negative camber is for the tire deformation under lateral load. During cornering, without negative camber, the tire will deform and roll underneath the wheel somewhat, shrinking the contact patch. More negative camber minimizes this. The suspension movement also plays into it, but it's the tire deformation under lateral load during cornering that is the main reason for camber changes.
I find it hard to believe this can make it to the real world, but I'm hopeful. But it very nice to see real engineering coming back to the auto industry. The vast majority of the "advancements" over the last 10 to 15 years have been re packaged 1980s.
Brilliant idea, I can easily see the potential performance advantages but guessing that a long-term reliable and cost effective solution will remain elusive. If only I could DIY it to my Miata or Lotus!
it could be modded into other cars. espesially multilink cars that have indipendent camber and toe allignment settings. think about the 4wheel steer in the back. to adjust toe all you would need is a little motor to pull and push an arm. that can be translated to camber to. twin wish bone style would be alot more difficult but might last longer or atleast if it fails wont cause the car to just loose a wheel. like the lambo one if it fails it could just break the hub clean off not good. but on a twin wish bone it could just act like you have no bushing in the arm which would suck if it happned in track or back roads. but it would be able to be limped to a safe spot and or home. i now am thinking how how to get something like this in my NA in a safe way.
@5150Failure i feel like not enough people appreciate the way double wishbone can take a hit, and keep on going. I had a wheel fall off my 2017 subaru, and ever since, ive prioritized double wishbone suspension setups.
You know Nissan and others had 4 wheel steering in 1989..... could probably use that system to retro fit it to a Miata.. IF you really wanted.. Mind you most Skyline owners.. Remove the system completely because its a maintenance/alignment/tire wear nightmare. Google some reviews on it....
@@crisnmaryfam7344 Thanks and aware, Nissan's solution was kind-of similar to Porsche's GT3 rear steer. But the way this video explains Lamborghini's solution, it is unique. But the salient point of extra maintenance is important as well as introducing new failure points. The more traditional double wishbone solution is still the elegant and simple solution that works well.
Sorrry but this aint it. I also refuse to believe that a youtube channel getting constistent views above 100k and averaging around 250-300k wasnt profitable especially with sponsorship segments. Even with expensive to produce videos you could have looked at making similar content cheaper.
5:36 Not always a compromise.... This is why we have inboard suspension now, so that ride height is not effected at the same time as Camber and Toe when the suspension is compressed around a corner, or what have you. Someone forgot to research this.
For example in a LOWLY Subaru "Negative camber increases when the rear suspension is compressed. When that happens, what happens to toe? in the rear, the lateral links are perfectly parallel and mounted at the same height so the toe shouldn't change." Thus giving the Subaru its Neutral feeling on center steering, but giving it lift off oversteer and understeer under hard power... Making it the ideal chassis for loose gravel sideways driving..
The main benefit to an active wheel alignment is going to be completely flat on straight line (accel / braking) to allow for improved straightline traction. An additional issue with the existing camber system is that it's designed to only have the outside wheels (if you turn right, the left wheels are outside) as flat with the body roll. The inside wheels will ultimately only be using the very inside of the wheels due to both body roll and the camber. This doesn't matter too much as the outside wheels will almost always lose traction before the inside, but by having more grip on the inside it could definitely help aleviate some of the grip requirement on the outside wheels. For normal everyday vehicles this is irrelevant, the AWC will be too expensive and will likely just be another breaking point for the vehicles, especially since normal cars barely run any camber at all anyway, only sports cars need it since normal people don't even know how to push ANY vehicle to their limit successfully anyway.
A few time attack cars have electronic dampening and the engineers are able to set up the suspension corner by corner via GPS coordinates. I was chatting to one of the engineers and was blown away and the idea of try to turn a car for every corner of a track and the fact a driver has to give feed back on a dynamic car. Super cool though.
These things must be a LOT heaver than normal hubs, in a place where weight is super important. I suppose you could at least partially mitigate the increased unsprung weight by mounting the springs and dampers inboard, with pushrods.
@@wingracer1614 No. There's no frickin way a pushrod outboard of a chassis-mounted rocker weighs more than an inboard coilover spring/shock. Hell, the spring alone would outweigh the pushrod. The inboard-mounted coilover in a pushrod suspension is SPRUNG weight.
@@zounds13 Stop talking about weight, it's MASS we are talking about. Mass has inertia. With a conventional coilover on the arm, any forces trying to move the suspension have to move the mass of the shock shaft, associated mounting hardware, half the mass of the spring and the lower spring perch. Move it inboard with a pushrod, all of that stuff still has to moved PLUS the mass of the pushrod and the bellcrank. You also need to realize, not all of the mass of a coilover is unsprung. Only the parts that move with the control arm are unsprung, the parts that move with the body are sprung mass.
@@wingracer1614 okay then, let’s talk mass. UNSPRUNG mass, not total mass, is the big bad thing that chassis engineers always try so hard to minimize. Coilovers are heavy. Even if you don’t count the bits that would be sprung mass in a conventional setup (and you’re right, we shouldn’t), what’s left is still significantly heavier (excuse me, “masses more”) than a well-designed rod and crank. Removing that mass from the unsprung total can only be beneficial. Yes, with the addition of the rod and crank, the total mass of the suspension is higher, but the total UNSPRUNG mass (or “weight,” for the less pedantic among us) is lower. You need to understand that low mass isn’t always the most important consideration. Wide wheels and tires have a lot more mass than narrow ones (rotational mass at that), but the increased traction they provide usually more than offsets the mass penalty. Or are you now going to try to tell us that it’s always better to use narrow wheels and tires because they have less mass?
@@zounds13 But a pushrod system doesn't just have the mass of the pushrod and crank to move. It still has to move the shock shaft, piston, half the mass of the spring, lower spring perch, etc. Just because it is no longer in line with gravity doesn't mean it's not being moved as unsprung mass. Yeah from a gravity standpoint, it is now sprung weight but the mass of all those components still has to be moved and THAT is what matters. The reason designers care about "unsprung weight" is because all that mass has inertia. That inertia resists the tire's ability to travel up to absorb a bump and also resists the tire's ability to go back down, causing it to over travel over the bump. ANYTHING attached to that tire/suspension with mass is going to increase that problem It doesn't matter if it's vertical attached to the arm or horizontal with a pushrod, it still has to move and it still has mass Your last point is totally agreeing with my original point that the gains from this system should FAR outweigh the slight losses from increased unsprung mass.
For road cars it would make sense to move that system to the upper and or lower suspension control arms, so that the system is better protected against jolts and vibration. The effect might be somewhat limited by moving the system, but then on the road you wouldn't need that much of a variation in alignment to improve the handling.
Combine this with four independent electric motors, and you will have a hell of a monster on your hands. Especially when/if batteries get lighter and higher compacity. Full toque vectoring and active alignment would be pretty crazy on the track.
Well explained, awesome video. There should be a race where all restrictions are pulled but results are based on speed AND fuel economy, so you can achieve what was never thought to be possible. Like suction that kicks in in corners, hybrids, organic wings to generate the force in the direction you want, weelhubs that flip direction to cool or provide forces in corners...
It'll be interesting to drive one when the system inevitably freaks out and gives all the wheels max toe in. Someone will also figure out how to tweak the camber settings to max them out.... for durrrrrr-ifting!
Oh wow, memory unlocked, i remember being 12 or so and experimenting the toe and camber of my Baja 5b. I had no idea what i was doing but really noticed the differences.
Usually starts out that way, especially if your self taught. You just mess around with settings not knowing how they'll effect the car's driving but as you keep doing it over the years you'll notice these consistencies and patterns and before you know it you have an intimate understanding of how everything works through experience if you keep doing it.
This ain’t it, this isn’t what (at least some) people want to see. I don’t think it was worth ruining everything just for the silly idea of driving a car upside down sometime, which might not even happen.
1:33 racing cars dont use toe-out in rear.. toe-out is being used for front for overcoming the initial turn in laziness.. on rear its mostly toe-in or 0 toe for high speed stabilty and mid corner and exit stabilty.
For the front wheels this doesn't work well as you say, but also seems over complicated. I feel like toe-in/out could be solved by electric steering alone just by splitting the left/right wheels. With traditional steering we are used to the paradigm that both front wheels have to turn unison via a single steering rack. After splitting left/right only the camber angle is left to adjust and that on its own could be much simpler and would effectively move part of this tech out of the wheel housing (another issue raised, heat, etc). Either way, I'm not seeing this anytime soon in my car lol.
@@crisnmaryfam7344 I think the part that weirds me out is that for most rear wheel steering it acts one way at low speeds (turn opposite front tire for more turning) and another at high speeds (same as front tire for more stability). From people who had a Nissan with HICAS they loved it and raved about never having to take their hands off the wheel to make a corner. I wish I had access to one to play with :’(
A lot of modifications to alignment could take place as a transpostion of control arm pivots/mounts, which has the added benefit of of being sprung mass. Don't even want to think about the nightmare of suspension geometry that creates though... because of problems like bump steer, it would probably work best on cars whose steering per wheel is already variable, like variable ackerman
and for crashing out of the race, you really decide to use grosjean's crash which had nothing to do with wheel alignment? what a buncha distasteful youtubers y'all are 0:40
Toe in or out in road cars is rarely 0 degrees and can be anything from 1/8" toe out to 1/8" toe in.. or somewhere in -between.. Front wheel drive cars will have a different setup to rear or four wheel drive cars .. Camber is also different for each drive setup
Changing the toe can have the advantage of much tighter parallel parking. Just back-and-forth the car while it's zigzagging to a side, without moving the steering wheel. Maybe even make cars which have a driveshaft connection on the back, like tractors, and a button to engage or disengage another gear which to connect the reverse gear and the forwards first gear to the tractor-like connection, so another wheel can be used to park into or get out of tight parking spaces. And pickups in particular but really all cars in general could make use of such a connection (even with only a finger-powered clutch and lever for acceleration level which can be locked in place) to power other devices. For example, a power generator for a house which to have a similar connection so you can use fuel from the vehicle instead of from the generator, so you can have the generator use one type of fuel and when you run out of it you can generate power with the car, or normal tractor attachments (i.e. water pump, cutters, tillers, etc.), or even new attachments, like a chain system which to cause a portable house to either pack up or deploy by having parts of the structure slide in/out and/or fold in/out. You know, like those houses which are delivered folded and you only have to unfold them and use a few screws, but with a mechanism using springs and magnets which require you to use more force to pack it or deploy it (so you don't accidentally start packing parts of it while you're using it or deploying parts of it while moving it). That way, an RBV (a motorhome) can have one room and toilet usable while on the road, and at least one more when deployed, maybe even have a system of solar tracking for solar panels which are protected between two walls while in transit/transport.
Surely in straight line there is no conflict. As long as the driven wheels have a full contact patch. Under braking it is the front. So in a turn each wheel turning a different radius. So the steering/braking should turn them independently. Right Hand Bend. Front right, right brakes First but turns second as Front Left is describing a bigger radius (by the track width.) It also doesn't have slow as front right! So you prevent lock by maintaining full contact patch. Now the rear wheels are also of the power & on the brakes. Rear right turns First by the amount the the front right Minus the effect of the apparent wheelbase. The diff & AWC distribute the power whilst maintaining contact patch. As you come out of the turn the front tell the rear wheel you 0.05seconds from straight, full power. No loss of grip & no slip!
Interesting. It made me think of the SmartStride Adjustable stride length on some Octane Fitness ellipticals. Instead of cramming your hip height and stride length into one fixed setting, you can adjust for your hip height, and the stride length changes on the fly as speed changes, which occurs naturally when walking/running at different speeds.
I think it is only fair to say that the TWIN wheel carrier was developed by the Audi chassis pre-development department over 10 years ago but was never used in a production vehicle! Thanks to everyone involved for this outstanding work!
Just a quick detail, road cars tend to have a little toe in, as that makes the cars stable at highway speeds, but also due to bushing deflection, a car with 0 toe would often actually have slight toe out at speed.. It's not much but you can usually see front tires wearing the outer edge of the tire a little bit more, but generally not enough to cause a premature need for replacement.
I get that you had to make some changes but a small segment / sendoff for will and callum would of been nice... Or even just a mention... They where 2/3rds of the reason alot of us subbed so to just have them suddenly not here with no real explanation does them and us a bit of a disservice
Most road going cars have toe in, on the front wheels. This is because, the wheels are given camber, Not sure if its called negative or positive. Top of the tyre, facing outward. This is done so that the weight of the vehicle is supported by the larger, inner wheel bearing. This is done to lessen the tendency, for stub axles, to bend or break. This then means that the tyres contact with the road is like that of a cone. Trying to send the wheels away from the centre of the car. The front wheels are then set toing in, to counteract this tendency. I realise that for competition purposes. Its better to have the opposite kind of camber on the wheels, to increase grip.
the difference is simple mercedez f1 aliangment system is changing from an already very agressive and optmise track alignment to a more agressive optimise track alignment for indivisual sector of the track while lambo is going from street car to track car alignment which is massive on itself plus it can be programe to have optimise alignment depedning on cornering braking acleration parameters that is massive advantage.
This idea is entirely new to me, but I already understood camber and toe going into this video and I find this genuinly revolutionary. Think of how much harder you could push a car knowing you have sooo much extra grip!
i thoght about this, thinking of doing a full adjustable car, not just toe and camber, also things like anti geometry... but i thought of doing it with the arms of the suspension, just like it is in every car, but with in cockpit adjustable... but this hub is increadible! i dont know how we just did it now, its so important that it should be more said than aero...
Very cool concept, well explained, and exciting to think where we can go in the future. #wechoosehunter
and if so how many will benefit from it. i expect when saying road cars its not ment as going shopping or driving to work cars :D.
I actually wouldn't mind an in-depth explanation of different alignment settings and how they affect the handling of the car from this dude
He has one on the Driver61 channel.
A few months ago.
having toe in/out might reduce top speed, so this would probably help the cars also reach a few km/h more on long straights.
Pretty sure he got it wrong by saying toe out setting helps initiate a turn. Toe out is for corner exit, toe in is for entry. So, I don’t think this guy should explain it.
@@viasevenvai toe out on the rear helps the turn in
@@AndrewTSqi agree, maybe I missed him saying that, adjusting the rear toe is more rare I believe.
This really feels like a driver61 video and not overdrive
maybe they uploaded on the wrong channel in a time crunch 🙃
(i did not realize it was on overdrive until i saw your comment)
@@KrakenZSVsame for me
@@KrakenZSVsame
This channel was bout to go broke, he dropped a video explaining how this channel will be more technical and simple than it used to be. The days of knockoff TopGear are over for now unfortunately. Truly was the best channel on UA-cam while it lasted. RIP
@@johnkennedy2812 whats the video called where he said that? If that really is the case, then ill unfortunately have to unsubscribe :(
My Range Rover already has self adjusting Toe and Camber.
My ball joints and bushings are toast.
Nissan and others did this in 1988 and 89..... Almost 40 years ago...
They called it "HICAS" High Capacity Actively Controlled Steering) is Nissan's rear wheel steering system[1][2] found on cars ranging from the more recent Skyline and Fairlady Z (300ZX) iterations to smaller models like the Nissan Cefiro (A31), 240SX/Silvia (S13 & S15)/180SX and Nissan Serena/Nissan Largo. It is also found on models from Nissan's Infiniti division, such as the Q45, M45/M35 and G35/G37. Unlike many other four wheel steering systems, HICAS and Super HICAS are fitted to improve handling
as an audi guy my mechanic passed me the mot because he doesn't want to fix those pain in the ass bushings.
@@crisnmaryfam7344indeed, and the Mitsubishi 3000GT also had AWS
@@crisnmaryfam7344 That only gave them 4 wheel steering, it did not adjust camber at all, and while it theoretically *could* be used to adjust toe, it was not used for that either, probably due to reliability concerns (and they were right about those concerns, just try to find a working HICAS system nowadays lmao)
Sad that the channel couldn't continue as it was but glad it will do in some form. Hope the old team land on their feet.
They split?
@@PlittHD I hope you're right, but November/December are the highest paying months and their last video was in October. Edit: Found Callum on insta, he quit and says a few other roles were made redundant. :(
@@EnignumI believe they had to make Will redundant at least
It was kind of the same format as old top gear: 3 bri'ish idiots in cars
???
This should be on driver61, if this channel is dead give us a video that explains what happened. It would be great if this channel could keep its fun and nonsense content.
This feels like a driver 61 video. What happened to the fun driving videos where you did challenges?
Those were too expensive!
@@wsjudd that's a real shame....
They weren’t too expensive, he got greedy and wasted too much on the upside down kart nonsense.
@@PebelWasTaken They are going to continue it but they need more funds rn
Callum decided he wasn't getting enough money and quit ;)
Where's Will & Callum at? the chemistry you 3 have together is top gear level & the videos always end up entertaining because of it.
callum left to do other things
Will was made redundant and Callum left
@@clemensweiss6163 They made Will redundant? Wow okay, don't think I'm interested in this channel without those two tbh.
@@bezza5069this isn’t an airport you don’t need to announce your departure
If you don't like people posting their unwanted opinions a UA-cam comment section is a strange place to be.
Changing toe at the hubs is no different from changing steering angle with the tie rod, so for steer-by-wire installations this doesn't require any hardware in the hub, just separate left and right actuators. Some cars already do this, using hardware from ZF and perhaps others, mostly for packaging reasons.
Changing camber can also be done with suspension links. This is most practical for single links, but some multi-link suspension designs do have a single upper lateral link per side. Force on this link will be high compared to a steering tie rod, so a high-force short-travel actuator would be required.
To me, it'd make more sense to have a system mounted inboard and acting on the lower a-arms, as this could easily perform the task of adjusting camber and toe as well as rear steering, and it'd not require additional unsprung mass and engineering it to withstand the extra stress
Amazing Idea!! It's like the 1st use of Fly by Wire systems in Aviation! If Those Gear Driven Flanges will be produced in 1st stage by forging technology, not just by CNC machining - They will be Cheaper and also very Durable!!
You don't have to do it at the hub, you could do the adjustments at the suspension pick ups on the chassis. Pretty sure you could move your lower or upper wishbones in and out to adjust camber. It will affect Toe so naturally you have to be able to adjust that as well. The adjustments to the steering arm are a little bit more complex but if you already running drive by wire and had 2 steering box/racks you could control each individually to adjust toe on the fly. Ackermann's angle means very little with this setup so you can choose a low drag setup or a high angle setup to try pump heat into the tyre. I can see how it makes several seconds a lap difference!
Just do away with arms and use nothing but links :)
Yes but now you have multiple actuators each doing a single thing. That's rather heavy, takes up a lot of space and is just plain inelegant. This is a very small, single component that can do it all.
@@wingracer1614 just use a swashplate arrangement? Dunno, was thinking multilink would be better than arms for adjusting things
Completly agree motorised tie rods would even enable to change the front alignments on the fly at a very low cost in dollars and unsuspended weight, maybe i should work for Lambo ;-)
@@wingracer1614 I disagree, having that mechanism in the hub adds unsprung weight which is bad for performance. Also the hub is exposed to a lot more force and heat meaning it has to be heavy duty and still will be more prone to failure. So while yes you would need two actuators per wheel instead of one, they can be much smaller, simple, and would add virtually nothing to unsprung weight. In this regard it is the far more elegant and reliable solution.
Even from a service perspective, when your hub bearings need replacement do you want to buy and replace this monster dynamic hub assembly, as opposed to maybe a single rod actuator (assuming one ever went bad). A well engineered rod actuator could easily last the life of the car however, with hub bearings it's not so much a matter of if you will need to replace your hub bearings, it's more a matter of when (especially for cars the see track duty).
This should have been uploaded on driver 61
Road cars do have a slight toe-in and caster angle at the front, this makes the steering wheel return to neutral position after cornering.
I was looking for this comment 👍
No… most road cars call for zero toe at the front. The caster helps on-center feel.
@@aygwm There's that but there is a lot more to it. Things like pin offset, steering angle inclination, scrub radius, etc. all play a part. It is totally possible to have a car with no caster or even positive caster that still returns to center on it's own, it's just usually undesirable for other reasons but there have been exceptions.
@@wingracer1614interesting. I always thought that toe in made a car twitchier and quicker to turn in but he said the opposite in the video... have I got it backwards?
@@joshb6993backwards, yes. Toe out can wander on straights, but turn in better. Toe in is more stable on center, with a slight detriment to turning.
Gl to Will and Callum. They'll do well.
Bravo Lamborghini, ALA system was very good but this is ingenius.
I am not surprised by the introduction of that tech, what i am most surprised with is the fact that it's actually Lamborghini who came up with a working idea. Usually when it comes to mechanical engineering it's Audi or Porsche who come up with a revolutionary technology. Granted they are all under the same roof of VW, but it's nice to see that there is some different areas of innovation being worked at by the different brands at VAG.
It'll be German my guess ZF sachs like rear wheel steering
I really wish overdrive was able to continue in its old format but best of luck to you!
WTF happened? Will & Callum became the reason to watch this channel. The content was slowly evolving and was becoming more refined with each video. Proclaiming financial reasons for the channels demise is really shady as it was clear to see that the channel was successful or on the way to becoming financially viable if they had waited it out. So my guess is that Will was pushed out and Callum left out of protest, it’s the only logical explanation assuming the limited evidence. I would love to know the truth as this kind of content isn’t why I subscribed in the first place.
Too bad Callum quit. In his goodbye post in instagram he doesn't mention Scott even once. Only thanks Will. The Overdrive channel doesn't follow him, but does follow Will. I guess Scott and Callum got into an argument en he left. Maybe do an update video, because reading through the lines in his post it looks like he didn't feel appreciated (enough).
This channel was fun for the time it lasted.
Yeah, I agree. And I personally find Scott the least interesting of the 3 here at overdrive so I think this channel is just dead now
will and callum both left overdrive
Love it when technology is used to help us be more efficient. No drama crap like giving control to AI. Just simply, tech helping people be better.
Sounds like extremely cool tech. I'd have expected this to be on Driver61? And yes I have seen the community post 2 weeks ago. It'll be interesting to see how you differentiate the 2 channels going forwards :)
Wow, really cool feature!!!
Reminder to everyone that overdrive almost went under. There was a community post about this. I, for one, am just happy the channel is still going and making more content!
Same, would be nice for will and callum to get some kind of sendoff or mention tho
0:45 I like how you chose THIS crash which, arguably, had absolutely nothing to do with the alignment XD
holy crap 3 seconds a lap is MASSIVE especially considering they only had them on the rear end of the car. one thing yall didnt touch one was the benefits to straight line braking and accel. normally you'd have a good couple degrees of front camber, and under braking it goes even further as the front of the car dives. thats a huge comprimise for braking grip. but this could dial a bit of positive front camber under braking (and a little negative in the rear) to keep all 4 tires flat and giving incredible braking capability. the issues they have with implementing this on the front end could easily be solved by motorizing the upper control arms for camber control. (honestly, they could do that with the rear UCA and a rear toe link as well, then they wouldnt have to worry about the parts experiencing so much shock from bumps.)
After driving a car at 10/10th on the track with technology that turns the rear wheels to "help you go faster", I found the technology counter-productive...
It reminds me of when F1 engineers come up with new technology to "make the car faster", but the driver now has to change their driving style to compliment the new technology...
Imagine,
you turn by X degrees, expecting ABC resulting behavior.
However, the car turns turns X+2, or X-1, and gives you EFG behavior....
You, as a driver, feel EFG behavior,
counter, to return to ABC behavior, but now with an ABC(offset) driving line..
The car constantly adjusts to your input to give a different expected behavior...
You're always "fighting" the computer and electronics, to fool it to get it to do what you want...
The servos that make these adjustments, would need to be fast when you turn the steering wheel fast,
but slow when you're slow, and intelligent enough to not make things worse..
Add to that.... the behavior of those servos and sensors, is the same in extreme heat, verse colder temps...
.. the behavior is the same on lap 1 as on lap 20 or lap 50...
.. as well as at 1,000 miles, verses 30,000 miles, 60,000 miles, because things naturally wear out...
... rain and dry..
I predict, Version 1, will be terrible, and by Version 3, or 4, it will be fantastic...
Maybe Lamborghini is the beta, test bed for future Porsche technology?
@@Leshic2 Changing your driving style to accommodate for a car that drives better than it used to takes very little time for a F1 driver, not even 10 minutes so this isn't a big deal at all. If a F1 driver can't change their lines or braking points a little bit to get used to what is basically a new car then idk how they got into F1 in the first place since that's what they have to do every year anyways, especially when a new era of F1 cars get launched. F1 drivers have to change their driving style all the time throughout the season as well through upgrades the manufacturers make to the car so the fact that it theoretically could be a problem if in F1 because F1 drivers have to change their driving style (because it is technology that "makes the car go faster") is nonsense. Now, when it comes to the car all of a sudden experiencing loads of new understeer/oversteer that it didn't before, then there's an issue because then you'd have to make much more significant changes to how a person drives but this isn't the case with this technology since the technology gets rid of unwanted understeer/oversteer. If you feel like you're constantly "fighting" with the car when it drives better than it did and it also drove pretty well previously, then you're not a good driver and probably need to get better of you don't want to possibly put other people on the road around you in danger. If your driving is that bad than you need help (not saying it is btw but just anybody in general).
i could see it actually hit road cars via arms. like a little motor on toe and camber arms. not too different than rear steer on cars. that way its not 100% of the load and if one breaks its less exspensive. like they could make the camber arm way more beafy due to it being the one that takes the most hits from the road compared to the toe arm.
Very nice innovation Lamborghini! Well done!
Revolutionary!!! You know Nissan and others had 4 wheel steering in 1989..... 4 wheel steering is on the fly adjustable alignment.. When your rear wheels turn, they are adjusting Tow.. when you turn in hard in a corner, it adjusts camber.. via the spring compression and allowing the wheel to move into a non natural resting position to allow better traction.. and thus handling.. Look up "HICAS"
"innovation" lol........
@@crisnmaryfam7344 Lambo aren't claiming 4 wheel steering is new, they've had it on their cars for a while. Watch the video and pay attention next time.
@@crisnmaryfam7344 Lamborghini has had 4 wheel steering for quite a while now, and they didn't claim to be the first either. HICAS does exactly that
1:29 This must be a quote from the HAAS technical manual. The whole of last season they focused entirely on lap times and not tyre life.
Very interesting but you forgot about the increase in unsprung weight that is a killer of handling. The problem with reliability could be helped by deeper tyre side walls like F1 complained about losing not long ago this would reduce the unsprung weight by using the tyre as a shock absorber.
Lamborghini engineers know more then you kid.... By far.... 🤣
It's a pretty small and light unit. Only a little bit heavier than a standard wheel hub. The grip improvements VASTLY outweigh that slight increase in unsprung weight.
I would like to have a technical view on it rather than saying "too much weight" or "naah , it's very light". Without knowing the actual increase you can't really say anything about its weight being a big disadvantage or not. Surely it should've been talked about.
@@wingracer1614can you give some figures in grams or percentage, please? You seem to have that info, or are you also guessing?
Don't forget about increasing unsprung weight. Adding a complicated electronic device on a critical part like a wheel hub sounds like more problems than benefits for most people. The faster lap times and better tire wear are really neat, though.
Callum and Will being fired was a mistake imo, those two gave the Overdrive its energy that the videos needed, sad to see them go
Lamborghini is one of the last manufacturers I had expected something like this from. I wouldn't have batted an eye if it came from Koenigsegg, Bugatti, Ferrari or Porsche. It seems like Lamborghini hasn't tried to innovate in at least 15-20 years, but instead felt comfortable in just making exotic looking sportscars that are somewhat "affordable" (at least in comparison to Koenigsegg and Bugatti). This looks like an innovation that could catch on and become a must-have thing in supercars in the future.... if it works, that is. Bravo!
So if it’s rear wheel only, they can effectively act like a rear wheel steering system as well, leading to tighter slow speed turns.
Not the same thing. At all.
Rear wheel steering is very easy. Honda did it first and stuck the system on the freaking Accord.
@@Peter-ff1tp But this system can also act as rear wheel steering when required?
@@Peter-ff1tp Honda didnt "do it first" they did it at the same time as nissan.. They all share tech in japan is you didnt know that already.. Look at the Diahtsus... They make one then put every Japanese badge on it and sell it. If you wanted to be technical MAZDA made it "first" in 1983 with the "MX-02 ", it just never made it to production vehicles. Honda and Nissan both dropped theirs FOR THE OPEN MARKET, in 1988.
2:23 that noise when it goes in and out 😁 subtle but brilliant!
Glad you have uploaded, but this feels like it's on the wrong channel. I appreciate its going to change but please don't be a clone. 👊
Please read the announcement from 2 weeks back in their community page
Another potentially life saving tech locked behind a premium paywall.
This seems like content for your second channel, bring back the proper overdrive content!
actually most road cars have a tiny bit of toe (usually toe in, at least in the front) so the car goes straight even when you make minor adjustments at high speeds. it is kept at a minimum tho like 0.03°, i had a car with a bad aligment it was 0.15° and it was completely worn on the inside to the core suddenly while the rest was fine..ish with 2-3mm
Great video, although it feels like Driver61 content and not Overdrive. I really thought this was just three friends, where one happens to be a millionaire to finance all the fun stuff. I didn’t mind that it was sprinkled with some advertising where I could become a Lord or got informed about some battery pack to survive the zombie apocalypse. I was either stupid to believe that or you had real friendship chemistry. Thanks for the past, to all that made this possible and I wish you the very best for the future. I“ll hope that Driver69 will eventually return and maybe his friends too and so does fun and the red KA. All the best ❤
i really don't see this channel going anywhere without will and callum. it's a real shame
Veeeery cool tech. Probably not for your average VW Up! or Polo but for luxury cars, sports cars etc., I can see a place for it. At least as a selling point.
Revolutionary!!! You know Nissan and others had 4 wheel steering in 1989..... All wheel steering is Essentially "adjustable alignment"...
@@crisnmaryfam7344 Steering is essentially aligning/adjusting the wheels to turn the car. Dynamically adjusting camber and toe though is a different thing.
In part of the explanation of camber, I think it's important to point out that the main reason we run negative camber is for the tire deformation under lateral load. During cornering, without negative camber, the tire will deform and roll underneath the wheel somewhat, shrinking the contact patch. More negative camber minimizes this. The suspension movement also plays into it, but it's the tire deformation under lateral load during cornering that is the main reason for camber changes.
I find it hard to believe this can make it to the real world, but I'm hopeful. But it very nice to see real engineering coming back to the auto industry.
The vast majority of the "advancements" over the last 10 to 15 years have been re packaged 1980s.
Brilliant idea, I can easily see the potential performance advantages but guessing that a long-term reliable and cost effective solution will remain elusive. If only I could DIY it to my Miata or Lotus!
it could be modded into other cars. espesially multilink cars that have indipendent camber and toe allignment settings. think about the 4wheel steer in the back. to adjust toe all you would need is a little motor to pull and push an arm. that can be translated to camber to. twin wish bone style would be alot more difficult but might last longer or atleast if it fails wont cause the car to just loose a wheel. like the lambo one if it fails it could just break the hub clean off not good. but on a twin wish bone it could just act like you have no bushing in the arm which would suck if it happned in track or back roads. but it would be able to be limped to a safe spot and or home. i now am thinking how how to get something like this in my NA in a safe way.
@5150Failure i feel like not enough people appreciate the way double wishbone can take a hit, and keep on going. I had a wheel fall off my 2017 subaru, and ever since, ive prioritized double wishbone suspension setups.
You know Nissan and others had 4 wheel steering in 1989..... could probably use that system to retro fit it to a Miata.. IF you really wanted.. Mind you most Skyline owners.. Remove the system completely because its a maintenance/alignment/tire wear nightmare. Google some reviews on it....
@@crisnmaryfam7344 Thanks and aware, Nissan's solution was kind-of similar to Porsche's GT3 rear steer. But the way this video explains Lamborghini's solution, it is unique. But the salient point of extra maintenance is important as well as introducing new failure points. The more traditional double wishbone solution is still the elegant and simple solution that works well.
@@crisnmaryfam7344 that was my point also thats just toe. that was my point tho. with a propper programing you can make it work.
You ain’t lying, put to much camber on my rears and damn it was crazy up to 60mph, immediately adjusted it once I pitted.
Sorrry but this aint it. I also refuse to believe that a youtube channel getting constistent views above 100k and averaging around 250-300k wasnt profitable especially with sponsorship segments. Even with expensive to produce videos you could have looked at making similar content cheaper.
Super cool idea. I can see a lot of applications for this technology in much slower speed off road vehicles too.
5:36 Not always a compromise.... This is why we have inboard suspension now, so that ride height is not effected at the same time as Camber and Toe when the suspension is compressed around a corner, or what have you. Someone forgot to research this.
For example in a LOWLY Subaru "Negative camber increases when the rear suspension is compressed. When that happens, what happens to toe? in the rear, the lateral links are perfectly parallel and mounted at the same height so the toe shouldn't change." Thus giving the Subaru its Neutral feeling on center steering, but giving it lift off oversteer and understeer under hard power... Making it the ideal chassis for loose gravel sideways driving..
If they can add that feature in their production car than it's not hard to believe that we can get under the 6 minute mark in Nurburdring
The main benefit to an active wheel alignment is going to be completely flat on straight line (accel / braking) to allow for improved straightline traction.
An additional issue with the existing camber system is that it's designed to only have the outside wheels (if you turn right, the left wheels are outside) as flat with the body roll.
The inside wheels will ultimately only be using the very inside of the wheels due to both body roll and the camber. This doesn't matter too much as the outside wheels will almost always lose traction before the inside, but by having more grip on the inside it could definitely help aleviate some of the grip requirement on the outside wheels.
For normal everyday vehicles this is irrelevant, the AWC will be too expensive and will likely just be another breaking point for the vehicles, especially since normal cars barely run any camber at all anyway, only sports cars need it since normal people don't even know how to push ANY vehicle to their limit successfully anyway.
please let this channel rest in peace. its dead without bois
A few time attack cars have electronic dampening and the engineers are able to set up the suspension corner by corner via GPS coordinates. I was chatting to one of the engineers and was blown away and the idea of try to turn a car for every corner of a track and the fact a driver has to give feed back on a dynamic car. Super cool though.
Damping, not dampening
These things must be a LOT heaver than normal hubs, in a place where weight is super important. I suppose you could at least partially mitigate the increased unsprung weight by mounting the springs and dampers inboard, with pushrods.
All else being equal, pushrods INCREASE unsprung mass, not reduce it. You still have to move the mass of the pushrod
@@wingracer1614 No. There's no frickin way a pushrod outboard of a chassis-mounted rocker weighs more than an inboard coilover spring/shock. Hell, the spring alone would outweigh the pushrod.
The inboard-mounted coilover in a pushrod suspension is SPRUNG weight.
@@zounds13 Stop talking about weight, it's MASS we are talking about. Mass has inertia. With a conventional coilover on the arm, any forces trying to move the suspension have to move the mass of the shock shaft, associated mounting hardware, half the mass of the spring and the lower spring perch. Move it inboard with a pushrod, all of that stuff still has to moved PLUS the mass of the pushrod and the bellcrank.
You also need to realize, not all of the mass of a coilover is unsprung. Only the parts that move with the control arm are unsprung, the parts that move with the body are sprung mass.
@@wingracer1614 okay then, let’s talk mass. UNSPRUNG mass, not total mass, is the big bad thing that chassis engineers always try so hard to minimize. Coilovers are heavy. Even if you don’t count the bits that would be sprung mass in a conventional setup (and you’re right, we shouldn’t), what’s left is still significantly heavier (excuse me, “masses more”) than a well-designed rod and crank. Removing that mass from the unsprung total can only be beneficial. Yes, with the addition of the rod and crank, the total mass of the suspension is higher, but the total UNSPRUNG mass (or “weight,” for the less pedantic among us) is lower.
You need to understand that low mass isn’t always the most important consideration. Wide wheels and tires have a lot more mass than narrow ones (rotational mass at that), but the increased traction they provide usually more than offsets the mass penalty. Or are you now going to try to tell us that it’s always better to use narrow wheels and tires because they have less mass?
@@zounds13 But a pushrod system doesn't just have the mass of the pushrod and crank to move. It still has to move the shock shaft, piston, half the mass of the spring, lower spring perch, etc. Just because it is no longer in line with gravity doesn't mean it's not being moved as unsprung mass. Yeah from a gravity standpoint, it is now sprung weight but the mass of all those components still has to be moved and THAT is what matters. The reason designers care about "unsprung weight" is because all that mass has inertia. That inertia resists the tire's ability to travel up to absorb a bump and also resists the tire's ability to go back down, causing it to over travel over the bump. ANYTHING attached to that tire/suspension with mass is going to increase that problem It doesn't matter if it's vertical attached to the arm or horizontal with a pushrod, it still has to move and it still has mass
Your last point is totally agreeing with my original point that the gains from this system should FAR outweigh the slight losses from increased unsprung mass.
For road cars it would make sense to move that system to the upper and or lower suspension control arms, so that the system is better protected against jolts and vibration. The effect might be somewhat limited by moving the system, but then on the road you wouldn't need that much of a variation in alignment to improve the handling.
Extraño a Will y a Callum!
Combine this with four independent electric motors, and you will have a hell of a monster on your hands. Especially when/if batteries get lighter and higher compacity. Full toque vectoring and active alignment would be pretty crazy on the track.
I think he posted this on the wrong channel
My experience is road cars have a bit of positive camber as when people sit in the vehicle the camber changes a bit going to almost zero
Scott, wrong channel. Interesting as ever, but this is OVERDRIVE. Will, Callum, slightly silly, funny, competitive. That's all we want here.
Oh boy, oh boy. You are in for a treat
Who hurt you @extreme8808
Well explained, awesome video.
There should be a race where all restrictions are pulled but results are based on speed AND fuel economy, so you can achieve what was never thought to be possible. Like suction that kicks in in corners, hybrids, organic wings to generate the force in the direction you want, weelhubs that flip direction to cool or provide forces in corners...
It'll be interesting to drive one when the system inevitably freaks out and gives all the wheels max toe in. Someone will also figure out how to tweak the camber settings to max them out.... for durrrrrr-ifting!
Oh wow, memory unlocked, i remember being 12 or so and experimenting the toe and camber of my Baja 5b. I had no idea what i was doing but really noticed the differences.
Usually starts out that way, especially if your self taught. You just mess around with settings not knowing how they'll effect the car's driving but as you keep doing it over the years you'll notice these consistencies and patterns and before you know it you have an intimate understanding of how everything works through experience if you keep doing it.
This ain’t it, this isn’t what (at least some) people want to see. I don’t think it was worth ruining everything just for the silly idea of driving a car upside down sometime, which might not even happen.
1:33 racing cars dont use toe-out in rear.. toe-out is being used for front for overcoming the initial turn in laziness.. on rear its mostly toe-in or 0 toe for high speed stabilty and mid corner and exit stabilty.
Back to the classic basics. Like when it was Driven Media.
So what the total lap time before the AWC was activated?
4.8/2.8 seconds would be more relative with that number.
that combined with BOSE Suspension ... Heaven
its lambroghin
This could be so great for all the situation! Acceleration, turning, braking and saving tire!
come on guys atleast remove will and cam from the yt branding if they're forever gone ;(
Neat tech, just gotta wonder about longterm reliability and maintenance procedures for this
Sorry but this is not an OVERDRIVE video.
The challenge videos were too expensive and not profitable
I'm sure UA-cam has another channel for you
Better make your own channel then m8
cry about it
@@m-J_C Genius retort, we’ll done.
For the front wheels this doesn't work well as you say, but also seems over complicated. I feel like toe-in/out could be solved by electric steering alone just by splitting the left/right wheels. With traditional steering we are used to the paradigm that both front wheels have to turn unison via a single steering rack. After splitting left/right only the camber angle is left to adjust and that on its own could be much simpler and would effectively move part of this tech out of the wheel housing (another issue raised, heat, etc). Either way, I'm not seeing this anytime soon in my car lol.
Theres a reason people do away with the NISSAN HICAS system form the 80's which is basically the more reliable less computerized version of this.
@@crisnmaryfam7344 I think the part that weirds me out is that for most rear wheel steering it acts one way at low speeds (turn opposite front tire for more turning) and another at high speeds (same as front tire for more stability). From people who had a Nissan with HICAS they loved it and raved about never having to take their hands off the wheel to make a corner. I wish I had access to one to play with :’(
You ruined your videos getting rid of the good stuff and wasting money on the stupid go kart upside down project. Yawn.
A lot of modifications to alignment could take place as a transpostion of control arm pivots/mounts, which has the added benefit of of being sprung mass. Don't even want to think about the nightmare of suspension geometry that creates though... because of problems like bump steer, it would probably work best on cars whose steering per wheel is already variable, like variable ackerman
Need 'steer my wire' for true independent motion. Cybertruck has it now. Interesting to see who will be next to do it!
and for crashing out of the race, you really decide to use grosjean's crash which had nothing to do with wheel alignment? what a buncha distasteful youtubers y'all are 0:40
Toe in or out in road cars is rarely 0 degrees and can be anything from 1/8" toe out to 1/8" toe in.. or somewhere in -between.. Front wheel drive cars will have a different setup to rear or four wheel drive cars .. Camber is also different for each drive setup
I like my own comment
Changing the toe can have the advantage of much tighter parallel parking. Just back-and-forth the car while it's zigzagging to a side, without moving the steering wheel. Maybe even make cars which have a driveshaft connection on the back, like tractors, and a button to engage or disengage another gear which to connect the reverse gear and the forwards first gear to the tractor-like connection, so another wheel can be used to park into or get out of tight parking spaces. And pickups in particular but really all cars in general could make use of such a connection (even with only a finger-powered clutch and lever for acceleration level which can be locked in place) to power other devices.
For example, a power generator for a house which to have a similar connection so you can use fuel from the vehicle instead of from the generator, so you can have the generator use one type of fuel and when you run out of it you can generate power with the car, or normal tractor attachments (i.e. water pump, cutters, tillers, etc.), or even new attachments, like a chain system which to cause a portable house to either pack up or deploy by having parts of the structure slide in/out and/or fold in/out. You know, like those houses which are delivered folded and you only have to unfold them and use a few screws, but with a mechanism using springs and magnets which require you to use more force to pack it or deploy it (so you don't accidentally start packing parts of it while you're using it or deploying parts of it while moving it). That way, an RBV (a motorhome) can have one room and toilet usable while on the road, and at least one more when deployed, maybe even have a system of solar tracking for solar panels which are protected between two walls while in transit/transport.
You know what's less reliable than a Lambo ?
A new Lambo
Surely in straight line there is no conflict. As long as the driven wheels have a full contact patch. Under braking it is the front. So in a turn each wheel turning a different radius. So the steering/braking should turn them independently. Right Hand Bend. Front right, right brakes First but turns second as Front Left is describing a bigger radius (by the track width.) It also doesn't have slow as front right! So you prevent lock by maintaining full contact patch. Now the rear wheels are also of the power & on the brakes. Rear right turns First by the amount the the front right Minus the effect of the apparent wheelbase. The diff & AWC distribute the power whilst maintaining contact patch. As you come out of the turn the front tell the rear wheel you 0.05seconds from straight, full power. No loss of grip & no slip!
Interesting. It made me think of the SmartStride Adjustable stride length on some Octane Fitness ellipticals. Instead of cramming your hip height and stride length into one fixed setting, you can adjust for your hip height, and the stride length changes on the fly as speed changes, which occurs naturally when walking/running at different speeds.
I think it is only fair to say that the TWIN wheel carrier was developed by the Audi chassis pre-development department over 10 years ago but was never used in a production vehicle!
Thanks to everyone involved for this outstanding work!
Just a quick detail, road cars tend to have a little toe in, as that makes the cars stable at highway speeds, but also due to bushing deflection, a car with 0 toe would often actually have slight toe out at speed.. It's not much but you can usually see front tires wearing the outer edge of the tire a little bit more, but generally not enough to cause a premature need for replacement.
It's interesting the motors are 48v. With the recent talks of trying to move to a 48v system in automobiles as a standard.
Great insight. Good to see you have a new chanel. Always enjoy your technical explanations
This is probably the most innovative component in the car industry Ive heard in many many years
Would seem that could be done more cheaply and better protected by introducing linear actuators in upper A-arms.
As a newbie to car internals, this is an Excellent explanation! Thank you!!
Glad it was helpful!
Guys the group has spilt
Callum and Will are no longer with overdrive
Finally an innovation in real sense of the word.
Cool tech. Cool video.. Thanks
-0deg camper is not equal to maximum contact to the road.😳
Yeah I'm getting pretty sick of this grossly oversimplified explanation of camber.
I get that you had to make some changes but a small segment / sendoff for will and callum would of been nice... Or even just a mention... They where 2/3rds of the reason alot of us subbed so to just have them suddenly not here with no real explanation does them and us a bit of a disservice
Most road going cars have toe in, on the front wheels. This is because, the wheels are given camber, Not sure if its called negative or positive. Top of the tyre, facing outward. This is done so that the weight of the vehicle is supported by the larger, inner wheel bearing. This is done to lessen the tendency, for stub axles, to bend or break. This then means that the tyres contact with the road is like that of a cone. Trying to send the wheels away from the centre of the car. The front wheels are then set toing in, to counteract this tendency. I realise that for competition purposes. Its better to have the opposite kind of camber on the wheels, to increase grip.
Most street cars have slight toe-in when aligned. It is very slight usually something like 1/32 of an inch. That helps the car track straight
the difference is simple mercedez f1 aliangment system is changing from an already very agressive and optmise track alignment to a more agressive optimise track alignment for indivisual sector of the track while lambo is going from street car to track car alignment which is massive on itself plus it can be programe to have optimise alignment depedning on cornering braking acleration parameters that is massive advantage.
This idea is entirely new to me, but I already understood camber and toe going into this video and I find this genuinly revolutionary. Think of how much harder you could push a car knowing you have sooo much extra grip!
This is awesome. Expect that to spread very quickly in racing.
i thoght about this, thinking of doing a full adjustable car, not just toe and camber, also things like anti geometry... but i thought of doing it with the arms of the suspension, just like it is in every car, but with in cockpit adjustable... but this hub is increadible! i dont know how we just did it now, its so important that it should be more said than aero...