Stihl 400 vs. 661 - Medium (32") Bar Palaver
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- Опубліковано 24 чер 2022
- Filmed in May, 2022.
April & May were quite busy in the shop and woodlot. Back and forth with the alter this, test, alter that test. R&D, for me anyway, is a time consuming process.
I had done a few 400s that were over-lapping in the Custom Saw Modifications process. Attempting to figuring out what a Mag piston would handle. Reason being, Magnesium is a very soft metal.
Now add in the coating the piston has. There is a lot speculation it is ceramic. The motorcycle industry seems to be using a ceramic and/or ceramic composite coating so it makes sense. However, I've talked to several Stihl Tech Personnel fairly high up in the food chain. They can "neither confirm or deny" the actual material composition - because they are uncertain at this point themselves. So, I wait...
Some specifications -
The 661 has a hp rating of 7.2
The 400, same factory, has a rating of 5.4 hp.
That's a 1.8hp differential. Stock for stock.
Completely different way the hp is derived - The 400 is a "Mouse Motor" High Winder. The 661 is a Rat Motor with a much lower upper rpm threshold.
Engine configuration -
56mm bore x 37mm stroke in the 661 for 91.13cc. 50mm bore x 34mm stroke for 66.76cc in the 400 . That is a 24.37cc difference.
But, the 400 weighs a whooping 3.8 pounds less than the 661. Every saw has it's place.
The 661 is bone stock. The 400 is at the Psy-Ko S level zippkit wise with my "Patented" "Torque Tweak" add into the mix.
What we watched here - A MicroHowler sized saw not getting embarrassed by a "big kid" saw that is 3 models higher in the line up while sporting a 32" bar & chain
Looking at the timed runs -
ms400R c-m at 14,040 rpms ran 32.11 down 35.18 up, 35.90 up with am #1 air filter test subject.
ms661R at 13,380 wot went 28.60 down and 32.20 up.
ms400R c-m at 14,040 rpms wot with am air filter #4 ran 36.75 up and 36.92 down.
Important to note - the diameter of the cut increased by at least an inch for the second session with the 400. WITH the addition of some pretty impressive knot interference. I've been liking the am #4 filter option.
In the end, the 400 didn't win against the 661. The smog saws are not designed to make power. They are engineered to run hot, burn clean, and not emit excessive hydrocarbons into the atmosphere.
Overall, I'm impressed with the performance of this 400.
At the time of your viewing this, I may, or may not, be immediately available for custom saw modifications. I am booked out several months regularly. If you are interested in having a saw zipped, please shoot me an email. That is the best, first point of contact.
danger_cat@rocketmail.com
Thanks for watching. - Розваги
Hello. The "Little Saw that could". I did list the results from the timed runs in the description area. Thanks for watching.
Hope u are well sir
Talk about punching above it's weight class. Very well done!
That sounds like it's got a bit of "get up and go" when you hit the throttle. Awesome.
Yup, still an impressive build of that ms400. Crazy how it was only a few seconds behind a stock ms661. Well done sir.
That little sucker is ornery, wrestling 3 classes up and holding it's own is dang impressive. You got somethin goin on there Jacky-san, that saw strapped to a 28 all day would put some wood in the dirt!
I missed this one, cannot wait to watch.
The little saw that could, lol. Thanks for watching.
Indeed, welcome and thank you for the videos, and advice.@@hotsaws101
I cut some big wood with very small saws Lol not having money removes every excuse. Now I can afford the good saws, I miss those days. Of course yours are ported and tuned amazing. Mine were not amazing.@@hotsaws101
Hope ya had a"Super Awesome Day!" If you would like some testing with your 400 in east coast hardwoods ship it out, I would be glad to run it for a week.
I think your R&D progress is great with the 400 but watching that run with only an aftermarket air filter on the 661 was brute power impressive. I got a tricked out MS661 and if I could get some better balance I could probably ride it to work.
👍
Lil 400 is surprising !!!!
For running a 36” bar for falling. What is easier to maneuver and cuts faster/better a ported 661 or a 500i?
Bryan hi.
A bit like comparing apples & oranges your question is.
Also, there are a multitude or parameters to consider.
The 661s have more power.
16.8+/- pounds for the 5ooi vs 19 +/-lbs for the 661.
Maneuverability goes to the 5ooi because of the lighter weight. But it is more nose heavy than I like. And it's by quite a bit.
The stock springs in the 661 are far superior to the 5ooi for a long bar. They hold up for a long time.
The alternate kit for a 5ooi get soft again purdy quickly.
If it is heavy brush and/or really steep, the 5ooi might be a better choice.
Wide open ground and hard trees the 661 will get more stems on the ground.
It's boils down to balance vs bar length for me. A 500i is a 32" or possibly 33 (110 .375) bar saw.
661 is a 33 or 34.4" long bar saw.
All this is based on stock versus stock.
A zipped 5ooi SUCKS up the fuel. 20/25 mins on a tank. You spend a lot of time chasing your camp with those. You will get less work done accordingly. The 661 get pretty good gas mileage oncest zipped.
Power wise, the 661 will have NOTICEABLY more grunt and pull 115 drivers of .375 chain MUCH better.
Boils down to weight vs power. That's the same old dichotomy.
Thanks for watching.
Mesin baru pasti enak di gunakan bro 👍saya malah suka mesin yang sudah berumur tapi masih layak di gunakan
How much more power % wise are you getting out of the ms400 with your porting and mods ? I just got a ms661 stock in a trade and was kinda thinking about selling it and getting and ms400 but I run into 30" trees fairly often what's your, should I stick with the 661 ?
Sorry for the delayed response.
My main 400 runs a little better than the one seen here. The one here run close to a stock 661.
So close toa 1.8 hp, but who cares because I want torque for stumping, increase.
A 30" is max bar length for me on a 400 - with not to much reaching around. If there was much reaching around I'd run a longer bar and thus bigger powerhead.
Brush load is a consideration as well. Heavy & 12 to 20" on the stump then the 400 shines.
16 to 30, with a lot of 24"ers I'll be using my 044, 462, maybe even a 372.
You might consider a 462. Not much heavier. Noticeable more power.
But, you never said if its stock or zipped saws either. That might change things a bit.
Thanks for watching.
As always great video. The variable seems to be the wood. Every consider dyno? Or maybe you already have one.
But a dynamic seems like a great consistent option.
Jesus is King...
May He mercy on this Nation, this world
Thank you.
I would agree. It will also have the saw races be somewhat not entirely fair as well. Because, no two trees grow exactly the same and are not exposed to exactly the same growing conditions.
Seems where the latest craze is everything dyno. Last year it was the complaints about the polyamide bearing races. The year before that it was a muffler mod & a timing advance. The real question is, what's it going to be next year...
I try and steer clear of the hype personally.
A dyno might give a baseline, but they do not tell real world performance. I know people with them, they say the same thing.
I've run saws on one. I've run the same saws in the wood.
Here is my dyno test: The best way to tell if a saw has power is lean into it with your knee while putting in the bias cut in the face with the back of the bar. This is after spooning on a long bar.
That's how I tell if the saw REALLY DOES have power.
AMEN.
Thanks for watching.
what does the torque tweak comprise of?
Something that I do to the saw.
Since saw work helps me provide for my family - what I do in the shop stays in the shop.
Thanks for watching.
500i Next ?
The Lumberjack
Jackyl
Composition: Jesse James Dupree
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When they dig on my new stainless steel sound oh yeah
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Whether you like it or whether you don't woo
That's the way we like it
Nice sawrus funtime cutting wood 🪵 👌