In rec play - I agree that lobbing incessantly to blind your opponent is poor form. Because the point is to have fun, and being blinded isn't fun. But in a professional match, with money at stake - I am kind of shocked that there would ever be an expectation that players decline to use a legal tactic that could help them win. Can't think of any other pro sport where that happens.
@@clydewmorgan What are you, struggling with reading comprehension? I literally started the comment off with the words "in rec play", and then drew a distinction between rec play and competitive money matches. Ass.
There is something off about this woman. When your 15-year old daughter is way more mature than you, there's a problem. When you're in your 40s and are just learning lessons about not taking things personal, there's a problem.
Could have let Anna hit the overheads to see if she did better. She probably would have. Or, let the ball bounce first. You can see people lobbing Ben Johns and he regularly let's it bounce if he can't see the ball.
Mad respect for this mother/daughter duo and all they’ve accomplished in the sport. But absolutely she was in the wrong with her unsportsmanlike behavior and words during the match. At her pro level and stature in the game, it’s up to her to adapt and overcome the opponent’s game and game plan. That’s sports. It was legal play. Wear sunglasses. You’re already wearing a visor. Would she tell an opposing team to stop hitting to her backhand because it’s weaker than her forehand or it’s not convenient or they’ve done it too many times?
“My overhead is one of my strongest shots…oh we absolutely thought they would lob us, so we were ready for that…” “In 5 years of ‘competitive’ play, no one has ever used the lob, so I kind of think it was a sportsmanship issue”. “Oh, they told us after the match, we were better…”. It goes on and on…keep digging deeper
Leigh, Leigh, Leigh … I watched this video hoping that you would just take full responsibility and admit that you lost your cool. Continuing to brand your competitors as “unsportsmanlike” made me very disappointed 🤷♂️ In the middle of the match I get it, I get frustrated and vocal too, but afterwwards in a video like this is the time to say you were in the wrong.
I'm not sure the consensus was "villain" - more like "human being who lost her cool". It's fine to criticize your opponents sportsmanship after the match (like Leigh did here in this interview), but yelling at them in between points was inappropriate, and a lot more unsportsmanlike than the sun-lob strategy. The sun-lob strategy is indeed tacky. As a rec player, I just don't play when the sun lines up in such a way as to make one side really unpleasant for overheads. It very much depends on both time of day and time of year. I'm very aware of it and once I get even one blinded-experience I call it a day. My sons have had to cool me off as well. Not with PB but with people in general ;) When I saw ALW grab Leigh's arm I was like "so I'm not the only one!" I actually thought it was sweet that ALW wasn't remotely intimidated by her mom losing her temper. To me, that's clearly a sign that Leigh must be a great parent over all. Never judge anyone by their worst moments.
I am of a different opinion. When faced with adversity, that's when a person's true colors tend to come out generally. She lost her cool and basically threw a hissy fit. A true champion does not blame an opponent for their own lack of ability regardless of it being the sun or anything else. At first she was the only one of the 4 players too who wasn't even wearing sunglasses. Is that the other team's fault as well? I am not sure why ALW would be intimidated anyway by her own mom's behavior, but she obviously was angry about it since she called a timeout, stormed off, and wouldn't speak to her mom during it. Guessing maybe you used the wrong term and didn't mean intimidated? You can tell even by this interview that Leigh isn't really sorry about what happened either since she tries to turn it around on the other team by saying they weren't playing straight up, which what does that even mean anyway? It's really just a lame excuse for poor behavior.
@@mpengle So -- you think you should judge a person by their worst moments? Yeah thats not a good strategy for life, but you do you. You haven't seen Leigh in a wide variety of stressful circumstances, you've just seen her in one set of stressful circumstances that lined up with what is clearly her pet peeve. And to repeat - its good to watch how a kid (and ALW is still a kid) reacts when the parent loses their cool. Is the kid scared of the angry parent (one extreme) or does the kid actually intervene with the parent to try and calm things down (the other extreme). If the latter, then thats a kid that has zero fear of their parent. Thats a healthy dynamic and it shows the kid trusts the parent in a deep way. When I was ALW's age, I would not have gone anywhere near my dad when he lost his temper and raised his voice. Its nice to see kids these days being raised differently from how I was raised. Not to speak ill of my dad - just praising Leigh here. Agree to disagree. This is just a good person having a bad day.
@@PeterCacioppi First off, you are putting words in my mouth. I actually didn't judge her as a person. I said that when faced with adversity often a person's true colors come out. Whether I like what I see at those times or not is a separate issue. It does not mean that I can't make an observation though. When a player has everything going for them, and is winning all the time (especially easily), of course they are going to act perfectly fine. As for ALW's response, I did think she was doing the right thing when she tried pulling her mother away from the net to get back into the game. What did she do after that though. She wouldn't speak to her and stormed off and went outside the backdrop of the court to let the other guy deal with her. I am not sure I would think that was her really intervening, but I would agree with you that she at least made an effort at the start. At that point as well what did leigh do when ALW tried to get her to forget about it? She shoved her daughter away and kept mouthing off at the other players. Praise her all you want, but she displayed piss poor behavior in front of her daughter and a public audience. I am not sure that is something to commend her for, especially as a parent. She gave a different take in this interview on what happened than the other team did too and I have a good feeling she was just trying to save face. She didn't even apologize either and seems proud of herself and continued to call them bad sports. Maybe she did say it, but I also have a hard time believing she told ALW not to play like them by lobbing yet she hit a bunch of high lob serves that she had not hit during the match until she lost her cool and the teams switched sides. It sure felt like payback at the time. Not sure you listened to the other interview either, but they said that Leigh whispered "Get Ready" to them when they were tapping paddles. No one probably really knows what happened between the four of them besides the players themselves but some of it feels fishy and the fishy part leans toward Leigh.
@@mpengle I said "Never judge anyone by their worst moments." You disagreed. So, just applying some rudimentary logic here, you are saying its fine to judge someone by their worst moments. Indeed, you rationalize this by saying "adversity shows a persons true character". I think thats dumb as well. People oftentimes do terrible things even in the absence of adversity, just because they want to. Adversity isn't some magic decoder ring. I judge people by their day in and day out actions. Some people have the ability to remain very cool under stress and some people are more likely to lose their cool. But plenty of the former category are jerks and plenty of the latter category are wonderful. Its not a particularly indicative character trait, in my opinon. In sum - we just disagree. I have a low opinion of how you look at the world, to include your assessment of this incident and of the Waters family.
@@PeterCacioppi This is not a belief I came up with on my own. Maybe I’m just quite older than you and remember the old adage which I already stated of you can tell a person's true character when faced with adversity. Do they make excuses, run away, or rise to the challenge? When faced with adversity she chose to lash out and blame others, not rise to the challenge. We can disagree, that’s just part of life. I have played sports myself at nearly the highest level (pro) and have personally faced opponents that used tactics that some would say are unsportsmanlike and yes they ticked me off too. Did I start yelling at them though? No, they just fired me up and I wanted to win even more. Unless you know her personally, like me you likely only see her public persona. Who's to say she’s a good person who had a bad moment or a bad person that generally appears good when in the spotlight…. But let me ask you this, how can you judge someone only by how they behave when everything is great? You have to take in the whole picture, most of which we don't even know.
In tournament play, the teams/players switch ends after each game and also at the score of 6 for the 3rd or 5th deciding game of a match. This rule addresses playing conditions that may favor one end of the court by evening out that advantage. Nevertheless, the drama led to a win and later good PR despite her sportmanship argument not holding much water.
I think the analog in pro tennis is less the lob--because you can let a lob bounce and still smash it--but "pushing" the ball. No pro does it. It is weak, disrespectful to your opponents, and to the game. The fact that no other team used this strategy--including the Waters when they switched sides--underscores the elder Waters's point.
ALW and LW are the most espectacular and effective women players. I love this mom-daughter team. I saw them here in Orlando when they defited Simone and Lucy, and THAT was fantastic! They won Gold medal in that tournament
They are great champions but she was wrong on her reaction to getting lobbed. Her opponent found a successful strategy and used it. Nothing wrong with that. It is your job to find a way to counter that strategy.
Shes definitely wrong but I still do think sports at the top level should mitigate as many external factors as possible, maybe a sun shade over the top of the court? Seems strange to use the sun as a win condition for a ball game lol
Stop hitting pop up’s to centerfield, the sun is in my eyes. It’s unsportsmanlike. It’s why this is not a sport. Only a game. It’s should be called KarenBoomer ball
Nobody’s going to take away from her talent…but this is pathetic from LW. The other team did nothing wrong. She just has too big of an ego to just admit she was the one who was wrong.
hmm intersting, while seeing the video it just seemed like she was complaining about the lobe technique but its more she was frustrated that the other team didn't go along with the gentlemen rules
@Gavin Shuell everyone competiting in the tournament decided as a whole not to use the lobe tactic (towards the sun) is a gentlemen rule. One team not following it looks bad on their end as everyone else is agreeing not to use it. You cant gentleman rule someone from being good at the game like her speed ups.
Lobbing the ball so your opponent looks into the sun is a legal but pathetic strategy. I’d be embarrassed to do such a thing. You’re just announcing you’re not good enough to win straight up and have no intention of even trying to.
Here's the thing. In my experience people with less skill use lobs most. Clearly the case in this situation. I don't blame her at all for getting upset. To people that use lobs all the time. It's a losing strategy and speaks volumes about your pickleball skill. See a skilled player knows lobs a defensive shot and that a good drive or a drop shot is far more affective.
Leigh Waters was absolutely right to be upset. It was bush league for the Waters’ opponents to go to the lob to put the sun in the Waters’ eyes. As Leigh stated, the Waters could have done the same when the tables were turned, but didn’t. Good for them. As to her being unsportsmanlike in calling out her opponents - it was MILD compared to any competitive sport and was also completely justified.
I totally agree that it was bush league by the Waters' opponents. Lobbing is fine but when your opponent is totally blinded by the sun, it's not cool. Notice none of the other pro teams did that.
Funny that you say that since after the side switch Leigh proceeded to hit super high lob serves into the sun which obviously was payback but many people didn't catch that because the youtube feed went down. It was only playing on the tennis channel at that point. Grechkina did an interview with Nunnery and Stone not long after this match and had a bit of a different story to tell as well, so who knows who's being the most truthful here. Grechkina said Leigh whispered "get ready" when they did the paddle taps which led to the lob serving. Considering it was Leigh that blew up and likely embarrassed her daughter though I tend to think what Grechkina said in her interview was likely closer to what happened especially when she started the lob serving in the next game. This whole idea of playing straight up though is BS. She should just come out and say the other team should have played the way they wanted them to play.....
She was right - chickenshit tactic and poor sportsmanship. Win by being the better player that day, not by repeatedly blinding your opponent by hitting directly into the sun. Pretty sleazy way to try to win and shows a lack of integrity.
Sometimes hard to admit when you're dead wrong lol
In rec play - I agree that lobbing incessantly to blind your opponent is poor form. Because the point is to have fun, and being blinded isn't fun. But in a professional match, with money at stake - I am kind of shocked that there would ever be an expectation that players decline to use a legal tactic that could help them win. Can't think of any other pro sport where that happens.
The point is to have fun in a competitive money match what are you a genius
@@clydewmorgan What are you, struggling with reading comprehension? I literally started the comment off with the words "in rec play", and then drew a distinction between rec play and competitive money matches. Ass.
@@clydewmorganthat is a dumb comment.
There is something off about this woman. When your 15-year old daughter is way more mature than you, there's a problem. When you're in your 40s and are just learning lessons about not taking things personal, there's a problem.
Could have let Anna hit the overheads to see if she did better. She probably would have. Or, let the ball bounce first. You can see people lobbing Ben Johns and he regularly let's it bounce if he can't see the ball.
Exactly. Let it bounce if the sun is getting in your eyes.
Mad respect for this mother/daughter duo and all they’ve accomplished in the sport. But absolutely she was in the wrong with her unsportsmanlike behavior and words during the match. At her pro level and stature in the game, it’s up to her to adapt and overcome the opponent’s game and game plan. That’s sports. It was legal play. Wear sunglasses. You’re already wearing a visor. Would she tell an opposing team to stop hitting to her backhand because it’s weaker than her forehand or it’s not convenient or they’ve done it too many times?
“My overhead is one of my strongest shots…oh we absolutely thought they would lob us, so we were ready for that…” “In 5 years of ‘competitive’ play, no one has ever used the lob, so I kind of think it was a sportsmanship issue”. “Oh, they told us after the match, we were better…”. It goes on and on…keep digging deeper
Leigh, Leigh, Leigh … I watched this video hoping that you would just take full responsibility and admit that you lost your cool. Continuing to brand your competitors as “unsportsmanlike” made me very disappointed 🤷♂️ In the middle of the match I get it, I get frustrated and vocal too, but afterwwards in a video like this is the time to say you were in the wrong.
Head and body shots are also part of the game right? What's next, Yellow cards??
very cool of Leigh to be supporting youtubers by giving out interviews like that
Where's the interview with the other side?
ua-cam.com/video/6rtsu-iORbE/v-deo.html
I'm not sure the consensus was "villain" - more like "human being who lost her cool". It's fine to criticize your opponents sportsmanship after the match (like Leigh did here in this interview), but yelling at them in between points was inappropriate, and a lot more unsportsmanlike than the sun-lob strategy.
The sun-lob strategy is indeed tacky. As a rec player, I just don't play when the sun lines up in such a way as to make one side really unpleasant for overheads. It very much depends on both time of day and time of year. I'm very aware of it and once I get even one blinded-experience I call it a day.
My sons have had to cool me off as well. Not with PB but with people in general ;) When I saw ALW grab Leigh's arm I was like "so I'm not the only one!"
I actually thought it was sweet that ALW wasn't remotely intimidated by her mom losing her temper. To me, that's clearly a sign that Leigh must be a great parent over all.
Never judge anyone by their worst moments.
I am of a different opinion. When faced with adversity, that's when a person's true colors tend to come out generally. She lost her cool and basically threw a hissy fit. A true champion does not blame an opponent for their own lack of ability regardless of it being the sun or anything else. At first she was the only one of the 4 players too who wasn't even wearing sunglasses. Is that the other team's fault as well? I am not sure why ALW would be intimidated anyway by her own mom's behavior, but she obviously was angry about it since she called a timeout, stormed off, and wouldn't speak to her mom during it. Guessing maybe you used the wrong term and didn't mean intimidated? You can tell even by this interview that Leigh isn't really sorry about what happened either since she tries to turn it around on the other team by saying they weren't playing straight up, which what does that even mean anyway? It's really just a lame excuse for poor behavior.
@@mpengle So -- you think you should judge a person by their worst moments? Yeah thats not a good strategy for life, but you do you. You haven't seen Leigh in a wide variety of stressful circumstances, you've just seen her in one set of stressful circumstances that lined up with what is clearly her pet peeve.
And to repeat - its good to watch how a kid (and ALW is still a kid) reacts when the parent loses their cool. Is the kid scared of the angry parent (one extreme) or does the kid actually intervene with the parent to try and calm things down (the other extreme). If the latter, then thats a kid that has zero fear of their parent. Thats a healthy dynamic and it shows the kid trusts the parent in a deep way.
When I was ALW's age, I would not have gone anywhere near my dad when he lost his temper and raised his voice. Its nice to see kids these days being raised differently from how I was raised. Not to speak ill of my dad - just praising Leigh here.
Agree to disagree. This is just a good person having a bad day.
@@PeterCacioppi First off, you are putting words in my mouth. I actually didn't judge her as a person. I said that when faced with adversity often a person's true colors come out. Whether I like what I see at those times or not is a separate issue. It does not mean that I can't make an observation though. When a player has everything going for them, and is winning all the time (especially easily), of course they are going to act perfectly fine.
As for ALW's response, I did think she was doing the right thing when she tried pulling her mother away from the net to get back into the game. What did she do after that though. She wouldn't speak to her and stormed off and went outside the backdrop of the court to let the other guy deal with her. I am not sure I would think that was her really intervening, but I would agree with you that she at least made an effort at the start. At that point as well what did leigh do when ALW tried to get her to forget about it? She shoved her daughter away and kept mouthing off at the other players. Praise her all you want, but she displayed piss poor behavior in front of her daughter and a public audience. I am not sure that is something to commend her for, especially as a parent.
She gave a different take in this interview on what happened than the other team did too and I have a good feeling she was just trying to save face. She didn't even apologize either and seems proud of herself and continued to call them bad sports. Maybe she did say it, but I also have a hard time believing she told ALW not to play like them by lobbing yet she hit a bunch of high lob serves that she had not hit during the match until she lost her cool and the teams switched sides. It sure felt like payback at the time. Not sure you listened to the other interview either, but they said that Leigh whispered "Get Ready" to them when they were tapping paddles. No one probably really knows what happened between the four of them besides the players themselves but some of it feels fishy and the fishy part leans toward Leigh.
@@mpengle I said "Never judge anyone by their worst moments." You disagreed.
So, just applying some rudimentary logic here, you are saying its fine to judge someone by their worst moments. Indeed, you rationalize this by saying "adversity shows a persons true character". I think thats dumb as well. People oftentimes do terrible things even in the absence of adversity, just because they want to. Adversity isn't some magic decoder ring. I judge people by their day in and day out actions. Some people have the ability to remain very cool under stress and some people are more likely to lose their cool. But plenty of the former category are jerks and plenty of the latter category are wonderful. Its not a particularly indicative character trait, in my opinon.
In sum - we just disagree. I have a low opinion of how you look at the world, to include your assessment of this incident and of the Waters family.
@@PeterCacioppi This is not a belief I came up with on my own. Maybe I’m just quite older than you and remember the old adage which I already stated of you can tell a person's true character when faced with adversity. Do they make excuses, run away, or rise to the challenge? When faced with adversity she chose to lash out and blame others, not rise to the challenge. We can disagree, that’s just part of life. I have played sports myself at nearly the highest level (pro) and have personally faced opponents that used tactics that some would say are unsportsmanlike and yes they ticked me off too. Did I start yelling at them though? No, they just fired me up and I wanted to win even more. Unless you know her personally, like me you likely only see her public persona. Who's to say she’s a good person who had a bad moment or a bad person that generally appears good when in the spotlight…. But let me ask you this, how can you judge someone only by how they behave when everything is great? You have to take in the whole picture, most of which we don't even know.
What a fantastic pair you are! Thank you for leading the sport. My opinion - let the ball bounce and play it; all part of the game.
Leigh Waters is the one with no sportsmanship. Geez. What a whiner! Her opponents played smart.
She’s cool. Love her. She got to be the happiest mom ever.
wait, remind me which one is the teenage girl and which is the grown woman?
In tournament play, the teams/players switch ends after each game and also at the score of 6 for the 3rd or 5th deciding game of a match. This rule addresses playing conditions that may favor one end of the court by evening out that advantage. Nevertheless, the drama led to a win and later good PR despite her sportmanship argument not holding much water.
what a whiner. play the ball. (former tennis player)
Eh, its a competitive environment, whatever it takes to win, stop complaining
It’s within the rules.
Would be nice if the interviewer showed a little less bias and didn't talk over someone answering a question.
How about let the ball bounce??? I think AW was simply embarrassed and couldn’t handle it.
Funny now, it was unsportsmanship then. And BTW Leigh, you have an incredible kid. Great lesson.
I think the analog in pro tennis is less the lob--because you can let a lob bounce and still smash it--but "pushing" the ball. No pro does it. It is weak, disrespectful to your opponents, and to the game. The fact that no other team used this strategy--including the Waters when they switched sides--underscores the elder Waters's point.
ALW and LW are the most espectacular and effective women players. I love this mom-daughter team. I saw them here in Orlando when they defited Simone and Lucy, and THAT was fantastic! They won Gold medal in that tournament
They are great champions but she was wrong on her reaction to getting lobbed. Her opponent found a successful strategy and used it. Nothing wrong with that. It is your job to find a way to counter that strategy.
Shes definitely wrong but I still do think sports at the top level should mitigate as many external factors as possible, maybe a sun shade over the top of the court?
Seems strange to use the sun as a win condition for a ball game lol
Bawl baby
Stop hitting pop up’s to centerfield, the sun is in my eyes. It’s unsportsmanlike. It’s why this is not a sport. Only a game. It’s should be called KarenBoomer ball
Nobody’s going to take away from her talent…but this is pathetic from LW. The other team did nothing wrong.
She just has too big of an ego to just admit she was the one who was wrong.
The Waters are easily the best in the business. Expect opponents to use every trick in the book to try and beat them.
PR damage control…
Cry baby. Yeah win with or against the elements. But win. Stop whining about it.
Use your left hand to block the sun
I bet you would lob every ball if it would help you win and nothing else would was working.
hmm intersting, while seeing the video it just seemed like she was complaining about the lobe technique but its more she was frustrated that the other team didn't go along with the gentlemen rules
@Gavin Shuell everyone competiting in the tournament decided as a whole not to use the lobe tactic (towards the sun) is a gentlemen rule. One team not following it looks bad on their end as everyone else is agreeing not to use it. You cant gentleman rule someone from being good at the game like her speed ups.
😭😭😭crying about pickle ball. Really no one gives a crap about pickle ball. A game for geriatrics to play 😂🤣😂🤣
Lobbing the ball so your opponent looks into the sun is a legal but pathetic strategy. I’d be embarrassed to do such a thing. You’re just announcing you’re not good enough to win straight up and have no intention of even trying to.
Here's the thing. In my experience people with less skill use lobs most. Clearly the case in this situation. I don't blame her at all for getting upset. To people that use lobs all the time. It's a losing strategy and speaks volumes about your pickleball skill. See a skilled player knows lobs a defensive shot and that a good drive or a drop shot is far more affective.
This interview is completely pathetic. This lady is as entitled as I have ever seen.
Leigh Waters was absolutely right to be upset. It was bush league for the Waters’ opponents to go to the lob to put the sun in the Waters’ eyes. As Leigh stated, the Waters could have done the same when the tables were turned, but didn’t. Good for them. As to her being unsportsmanlike in calling out her opponents - it was MILD compared to any competitive sport and was also completely justified.
I totally agree that it was bush league by the Waters' opponents. Lobbing is fine but when your opponent is totally blinded by the sun, it's not cool. Notice none of the other pro teams did that.
In pro tennis, this would not be even an issue. ALW will not on the WTA pro tour at some point in her career. What an amazing athlete.
Funny that you say that since after the side switch Leigh proceeded to hit super high lob serves into the sun which obviously was payback but many people didn't catch that because the youtube feed went down. It was only playing on the tennis channel at that point. Grechkina did an interview with Nunnery and Stone not long after this match and had a bit of a different story to tell as well, so who knows who's being the most truthful here. Grechkina said Leigh whispered "get ready" when they did the paddle taps which led to the lob serving. Considering it was Leigh that blew up and likely embarrassed her daughter though I tend to think what Grechkina said in her interview was likely closer to what happened especially when she started the lob serving in the next game. This whole idea of playing straight up though is BS. She should just come out and say the other team should have played the way they wanted them to play.....
Yup, cry baby 😂
If I were playing against her, I would lob the s out of her.
If u were playing against her they’d wipe you lol.
@@dychax707 good joke
You probably think it’s ok to hit a woman too.😂
If you don't have the sun lined up perfectly, you would be eating a pickleball-heavy diet. With relish.
@@MorphousInfinity wow..is that what you are doing at your home?
She was right - chickenshit tactic and poor sportsmanship. Win by being the better player that day, not by repeatedly blinding your opponent by hitting directly into the sun. Pretty sleazy way to try to win and shows a lack of integrity.
i agree with her. lobs are lame... if they ban the spin serve, they should limit the lobs
She’s right
Their tactic worked. Sportsmanship? Yeah, shut it.
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