The Risk To Reward Ratio Of Deadlifts Is A Joke (Response to Joe Rogan | Robert Oberst)
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- Опубліковано 14 лип 2019
- #JoeRogan #RobertOberst #deadlift
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One time my friend was deadlifting, nothing really heavy (365 pounds) and this guy who claimed to be a physical therapist said to me, "there's no reason to be lifting weight that heavy, he's gonna mess up his back for life." Yet deadlifting strengthens your back and core, and actually can prevent injury if performed properly. Oh, and the guy who said that had twig arms and a belly.
Yeah, heavy is a relative term anyway so without knowing anything about your friend, him uttering that statement reveals more about him than anything else.
Imagine thinking that deadlifting is the most efficient way to strengthen your back.
@@VM-eo2iw What is?
I promise to back off the deadlifts when I get over 800 pounds.
Trying to reason why you shouldn't do deadlifts is peak cope.
What's cope mean?
@@lukaswilliams5851 like coping with shortcomings
i actually enjoy the way you talk about this kind of shit, you dont bash the guy you try to understand and move forward from that i appreciate that, also nice hair
Hey Alec, I’ve viewed multiple response videos critiquing Robert’s appearance on Joe Rogan’s podcast, and this was by far the best. You were right on point with analysis.
Thank you, sir. Much appreciated.
thats a funny looking beanie
Whoa whoa WHOA WHERE'S THE HAT?! THE SUPERMAN HAT!?!
Totally NOT BALD
@@Killedbyjewtube please, please fake alec enkiri stop trolling. Come on man hes a good youtuber, just leave the guy alone.
@@Killedbyjewtube ok fair does thats my bad.
Totally agree with points here, Ofcourse past a certain point/weight, deadlifts wont add notable progress to athletes , these strongman deadlift 800 lbs for sake of deadlifting it only and million dollar athletes have no use for that .
To be honest, at a bodyweight of over 400 pounds a raw deadlift of 800 is pretty crap, I don't care what anyone says.
There's 100kg guys raw pulling more than Oberst.
Did you even watch the whole vid before commenting your jump to conclusions?
You just reiterated exactly what he had to say in this vid? So redundant. Just like those kinds of people who interrupt someone before they finish what they have to say just to say exactly what the person was about to say anyways 🙄
@@ThePitPony tbf though hes got a seriously impressive log press, hes not built to deadlift really
Jason Robson tbh deadlift doesnt get affected by bw as much as bench or squat. Thats why big guys dont deadlift and smaller 100kg guys deadlift more simply due to better leverages(aka longer arms).
I have watched this vid a couple times before. It came up again at the perfect time. I am working on my deadlift tonight. I was going to overload the bar again. The vid reminded me to drop the weight and get in some good volume. Thank you!
i thought this was the other alec. great haircut brah, looking like a teacher/student hentai protagonist .
"other Alec" 🙄
No homo but looking good with that haircut brother!
@@TheBoostinbobby we not gay bro! But you lookin hella good with your shirt off boo just saying
Going back through your catalogue of videos, another gem from you...
Thank you, sir.
Maybe Robert doesn't realize that most guys who actually train it will still never even get to a 600 pound deadlift let alone a 900 deadlift like himself
I just think he's a little out of touch. Can't blame him. It would be hard not to be when you're that fucking strong.
Agree totally, although there's tons of 800 deadlifters these days but relatively few can do it raw (strapless)
Using straps is what amplifies risk to the spine.
Wrist straps are a very modern, social media fueled trend.
Back in the 80s straps were a sign of weak hands.
How does it amplify the risk to the spine?
@@PabsMCPE Obviously the weakest link in the chain is the hands, the back, legs/posterior chain can generate far more power than the hands can naturally hold onto.
Straps cancel this out allowing far heavier weights to be pulled.
Logic...
Oberst isn't even a big raw puller, especially for a 400lbs man, can't you do 720 at 220 and 48 Yr old?
@@oreospeedwagon5466 Yes but I don't count.
I reside in the far North East UK, the land that time forgot.
@@ThePitPony 😂
Amen! And you make a great argument, as usual.
Excellent synopsis. So far I think it's the most thorough/ comprehensive that I've heard. I like the way that you took into consideration Roberts strength on the Deadlift as a reason why his theory on risk to reward is probably skewed. When I was personally considering why he said this in the context of football, I gave the most weight (as in ranking of importance during an analysis vs. weight, as in lbs.) to the fact that challenging Deadlift work induces more overall nervous system fatigue and muscle soreness than any other exercise. This is an unfortunate aspect of deadlifting that could prove disastrous for a team during preseason skill training and in-season strength maintenance training (which tends to include an abbreviated strength program with drastically reduced volume, a smaller number of exercises with focus on prehab and, depending on the individual athlete, rehab ) to ensure the athletes are at their best for competition in such an incredibly demanding sport.
I don't know of any other sport that is as physically demanding in terms of potential trauma than football (there are combat sports like boxing and mma which maybe more likely to result in brain injury, or wrestling and water polo which are absolutely exhausting which demands the highest degree of flexibility, mobility, power, timing and durability as opposed to peak absolute strength.
Glad you enjoyed it man. And thanks for the input!
Excellent critique. Thanks for keeping it respectful, and I totally agree that the deadlift should be a staple exercise in most people's program.
Iagree, you are on point. It is a fundemental movement.But also individually working lowerback , core and hips is also necassary befire embarking on any deadlift regimen
Great vid. I agree. I deadlift 10 reps every time and focus on legs. When I was doing singles, I was in snap city every month or two. Depends how you do them.
I was at my jiujitsu class I go to and we were stretching and the instructor mentioned what robert said on the podcast about the deadlift being a bad exercise and he went on a rant for like 5 minutes about it and I’m just thinking to myself well that why your small lol
How much do you pay per month for jujitsu?
@@lukaswilliams5851 i changed gyms but the one I went to at the time I made this comment costed me about 150 a month, pretty steep yeah
Great summary!
thank you!
Great vid....its not only lack of use that leads to back pain. Its just we are bipedal and our spines overall suck for that. Pretty much everyone will get spine degeneration and most will get non descript lower back pain. The ONLY thing we can do to combat this is make the support structure as strong as possible aka do your deadlifts!!!!
BP not sure where you’re getting you’re information from, but I’d be happy to learn something new if you have a source for those claims. Based on the research and evidence I’ve seen, if you’re SERIOUSLY injuring your back while deadlifting, you are either lifting with bad technique, too much weight, or poor programming. Minor back tweaks are common, but that’s the same with any other daily activity that loads the back, and even then your risk for injuring yourself doing these activities is decreased by getting stronger at the deadlift
Cleans are kinda difficult for the majority of people, I think football players would benefit for from block pulls, squats and pulley rows.
Very good response btw
Out of all the response vidoes,your is most intelligent/articulate and has the best perspective out of all the other videos. You address the issue at hand with out negatively attacking Robert. Well done and well said. I tip my hat to you.
Very well said, coach!
Best response to this issue on the internet.
Finlay Nixon agreed and I’ve seen like 6.
I don't tell my dad how much I deadlift bc he gets all worried me. My #1 goal is protecting my spine, hips, etc so strengthening my posterior chain is very important. I've had my L4-S1 replaced with motion-sparing artificial discs (not a fusion). My back 'went out' by moving photography equipment. I love being able deadlift now! I tell eeryone with low back pain to stop stretching their already weakened low back with lumbar flexion and to start strengthening! They look at me like I'm crazy.
I would also add that NFL and division 1 football players are all freak athletes. They have a higher percentage of fast twitch muscle fibers and higher neuromuscular efficiency than the average person. They will generally be able to build a lot more strength and muscle using only explosive movements than the average person on the street.
This is almost certainly a factor as well.
So well said💪🏻
to add onto the point about D1 and pro athletes: they compete at such a high level because they have the god given talent skill and genetics to do so. the strength training does help to better focus that skill, but they are D1 athletes because they are born to be D1 athletes, not because they do or do not do a specific exercise.
great video man. you and bugenhagen really hit the nail on the head with your responses.
Just went and watched Bugehnagen's video. I did end up inadvertently saying a lot of the same things in different ways lol whoops.
Trap bar for life lol
Nothing wrong with that.
I like switching the variations every 3 weeks.
I use the trap bar (low handles). It forces me into a solid lifting position and puts less strain on my lower back. I supplement with targeted, lighter training on my erector muscles and hamstrings.
Since I'm in no danger of being disqualified from any powerlifting competitions, it's working out pretty well.
Great insight as usuall but how do you feel about substituting deadlifts for another type of pull such as a clean pull?
By "clean pull" do you mean like a clean grip high pull or do you just mean a "clean pull" as in the pulling a heavy bar off the floor in a very strict fashion as needs to be done to initiate an actual clean? Big difference there! But also, honestly, it's all just goal dependent really. No reason you can't do both things at different points in time. But that's part of what I was saying in the video. There are so ways to deadlift. It's one of the most versatile exercises there is, so it's kind of impossible to just say "don't do deadlifts."
@@EnkiriElite I was refering to something akin to the high pull. I recover faster and it makes me more explosive so lately ive been doing it instead of deadlifts.
@@Hadwerd7 like I kind of alluded to in the video, at some point the gains you get from deadlifting year round won't be worth the effort of doing so because you can put that energy into other things and make better progress, and you won't lose your deadlifting strength anyway. Just revisit the lift at some point and everything will be good to go.
Watching this while eating muscle building oatmeal
Bullet barbell analogy, nice
Yeah yup. Solid points!
Great analysis
Well said. Edit: still well said. When I train HEMA, I find that the basic hip hinge is a skill essential to any progress. The same motion we practice in deadlifts is the “backbone” of wielding non gun weapons and has been historically. It is without exaggeration the basis for all athletic endeavor, otherwise multiple athlete strength coaches would not use trap bars. Trap bar is even used in the Army fit test. Squats train glutes and quads. Deadlifts train glutes and hamstrings, and do so as a compound lift. And, strengthening the quads without the hams would cause imbalance and be a recipe for injury. Pavel and kettlebells are the kings of functional fitness, and it uses what? The hip hinge, the deadlift movement made ballistic. I will simply disregard machine leg curls and almost any isolation exercise.
BP Any assertion made without evidence can be dismissed without offering any evidence in rebuttal. Methinks you are more BS than BP.
Im having issues with My grip. I just started doing it and Hook grip is very difficult to learn. Also mixed grip feels very unnatural and feels as it hits the left vs right side of the back differently. What do you recommend for me?
Either get comfortable alternating the mixed grip with every set, tough out the process of learning the hook, or fuck it all and just straps. Those are the only options lol. If you aren't going to powerlift competitively, who cares if you use straps anyway? Just get your grip work from heavy chins and other shit instead.
@BP no youre being the dumbass here assuming im still in the same position and assuming some bs regarding the exercise. Have a good Day and gtfo
great info
Agree with your opinion sir.
I think everyone here is forgetting there's a lot of alternatives to deadlifting. RDLs, hang cleans, ect. And the "heavyest weight i can get" mentality of most people doing deadlifts. Just look at the deadlift section at the gym and look at how many people are doing them with bad form and/or doing their 1-3 rep weight. I think it's a good work out if your doing 8+reps. But most people seem to do more for ego.
Dude, You are a beast!
Hair game is strong.
I am a professional weak man.
Hair lookin good bro.
Imo. Doing hyperextension holding heavy dumbells or barbell has worked great for me. Works pretty much the same muscles involved only that the quads are tsken out of it. Partial deadlifts work great and there is a place for ghem in my routine. I do not do desdlifts from the floor, however if kept under control and you adhree to goof form then imo the deadlift is a great entire body exercise.
Great take
You made a video about programming for beginners and included power cleans in the program. I guess I’m just wondering why, considering how much more technical and harder it is to learn than the squat, bench, deadlift, ohp. Everything else in the program looked like stuff the average recreational lifter could teach themselves to do then the power-cleans just looked out of place there...
Because I believe that people who can learn the power clean should learn the power clean. If you've done any sort of physical activity in your life then picking up the power clean from the hang will still be a challenge, but it will be a challenge that's worth the effort. The problem I mentioned in this video is with people who have basically been sedentary their whole lives.
Alec Enkiri yeah I tried teaching it to myself and it’s like a whole different world of lifting for me. I played 3 sports all 4 years of high school and wasn’t taught jack shit. They basically just pointed us in the direction of the weight room...
@@zacharybloom5871 video analysis will be your best friend if you're self taught. You can't know what you're doing wrong and what you're doing right until you see from an objective third person perspective and then compare it against other people who you know have good technique.
Alec Enkiri ironic you said that I just ordered one of those flexible tripods for my phone off amazon 👍🏻 just for that purpose
Robert was talking about football.
Also, Robert also states that his experience with deadlifts was 2 months before recieving his procard
4:14 hmmm.... Is this a political statement 🤔
You're a cool guy
Side Handle Deadlift for the win👍
actually they put the gun in the jail
Guys, never forget. Strengthening your ego and self image is still important, and if the deadlift allows you to feel strong than go for it, just don't forget to use weights your can lift safely without injuring yourself.
Honestly I think people should find ways to cram hang/power cleans into their programs where possible and sensible. I think squats+deads+cleans is the lower body holy trinity. Snatches hurt my wrists and are annoying to do so I’m leaving it out. If you think about the lifts people do in weightrooms for sports those are probably the best lifts to do in general. People on sports teams deadlift anyways
Also Eric Bugenhagen said deadlifts made him a way better wrestler so I’d rather listen to him
you look taller without the hat
At 8:55 straight gossip. It’s so many people with whatever Certification to train people that don’t know what the hell they doing. Smh
good hair bro!!!
More people hoping on this topic to get views
I like your gun analogy. And while we don't put guns in jail, we do put dozens of laws prohibiting gun use and even ownership. The same could be said by deadlift - while no exercise is "evil" by itself it's good when people with good outreach explaining who and why shouldn't use it in some scenarios.
And laws prohibiting owning certain types of guns as well. It's actually a pretty good analogy now that you mention it 😂
This is why I don't listen to much of what, even the big guys say.... spewing garbage most of the time these days...
Seems to me that the weak link in DLs is the core. I hurt my back because my core couldn’t keep up with everything else in the posterior chain. My knees didn’t cave, my grip didn’t loosen, my upper back and shoulders stayed strong, my legs continued pushing up, etc.. I felt my lower back round and that was the beginning of the end. I still deadlift but much lighter weight for reps. I do question the whole thing now. Not because of my injury but rather hurting my back with doing simple things around my daily life, prior to my back injury. Great content as always.
There’s someone else with an Alec Enkiri channel commenting everywhere on UA-cam. It’s an anti-Bloho troll
Jason Blaha's Filthy Foot yea he’s some dumbass with mental issues
lol, first time seeing your hair
weird how much more competent you appear to me without the hat 😀
Not sure if I should be flattered or insulted!
If you have time get back to me please.what excercises do yo think hekp you to mantain your deadlift strenght.💪✌
Everything else man! Squats, power cleans, weighted hypers, heavy chin-ups, etc.
@@EnkiriElite thanks for getting back means alot 👍💪✌
Deadlifts are a really good mass builder and strength shower. That’s all their really good for (conventional at least).
As a novice, they are essential for adding on muscle and strength. But once you are deadlifting 605, you are putting stupid high tension on lower back and tendons which your body probably won’t be able to handle at high volume.
Especially as a natty, you’ll probably find that at a certain point you’re better off just training the muscles associated with a deadlift and just throwing in some deadlift work here and there. Your deadlift will rise faster this way anyway. But running a specialized deadlift program will eventually yield a high risk to reward ratio.
He said all athletes who get paid for strength do not program deadlifts.
Man you can’t stop at 585
I got hernia from deadlifts doing proper form
The other part of the equation which I mentioned in the video is workload management, i.e. proper programming. Also, hernias are something you are genetically predisposed to.
@BP DYEL
Roberts bodyweight of almost 400 pounds with dl of 800 is awful. I was about 60 something kilos when i started and I dl 120 kilos. Which relatively is about the same
Lol are you messing with me or are you being serious? I'm asking legitimately.
Alec Enkiri just joking I think he’s even said he’s not 400 pounds. And even if he was it was impressive
@@hmmmmm4749 was just wondering because if not I was going to introduce you to the wilks calculator 😂
Yeah that dude is weak, I mean how many pull-ups can he do? I could do 30 pull ups when I was a toothpick armed 5'8" 100lb 7th grader
Why did you hide your subscriber count?
Just to see what happens.
For some reason i dont like his presentation. But i really like his opinions. Maybe im used to these videos being entertaining...
Brb Calier Woolam
That said deadlifts solidify you. You want a bigger bench? Deadlift. I hit 315lbs x10 a few days ago. I benched 2 days later and the weight was flying. 135lbs x5 felt like nothing for my first set of 5 and then 175lbs x10 was a PR on my 5+ set for 531. I swear to Christmas the deadlift helps. You just have to have the confidence and aggression to not let the idea od deadlifting heavy pshyc you out. But learn how to brace and stay tight or yeah you could overdo it and visit snap city.
I can deadlift 2000 pounds 1/10,000 of an inch!
Robert is entitled to his opinion but I think he’s wrong. Deadlifts is the king lift (along with squats). Works everything , but because it is very technical based I see why. People fuck up a lot more
BP you can get hurt from squatting as well
Dude shot himself in the foot with that comment
Junior The 3rd I disagree! I believe he possibly could’ve elaborated a bit more but for the most part I agree with him! The wear and tear HEAVY deadlifts can induce on the body is simply not worth it in my opinion, once you get to numbers over 500lbs then I believe there is more risk than reward and this is geared more towards the general public, because for the most part, the general public just wants to build muscle and be in shape and not only can you do that with a plethora of different exercises but the straight bar conventional deadlift does not need to be a staple in any exercise program although I’d say some sort of hip hinge movement is highly recommended!
He definitely didn’t. Tell me what are the rewards of deadlifting heavier and heavier till you reach a maximum effort lift only to change your training in order to break through a plateau? What are the rewards? We all know the risk
Cowboy Randle agreed! I got my deficit trap bar deadlift over 500lbs and I’m telling you that my body remembers it! Lol! In no way am I saying it debilitated me and I’m probably stronger than 90% of the population but it has induced some sort of wear and tear on me! Keep in mind that it wouldn’t get better if I was trying to go for 600, 700 or 800?!?! I think a lot of people took what he said out of context when I totally knew what he meant although I believe he could’ve worded it just a bit differently!
Sir what he shared WAS FRONT BAR DEADLIFTS as opposed to hex bar. Is far more risky just as barbell back squat is more dangerous to the back then bulgarian split squats.
Well I can deadlift about 340lbs but my back hurts lifting 2 pound egg cartons while kneeling.
Love how that works
Well then, what is the reward of your dead lifting?
True about the coaches.Iwant to ask you about the longevity thing you mentioned lile picking up your kid and having lower back pain.I think for the average person who isnt a gym rat or a training freak doing deadlifts is out of the question.that person could achieve a relatively good back in his mid 40s by doing lower back hyperextensions and some core movenets.that was his point i think.yes dl is great but not necessary especially if you have no one to teach it to you.
Of course it's not necessary, nothing is necessary. But it's still a better, more efficient option than what you listed. People get hurt by lifting weights they can't handle, shitty programming, shitty form, or some combination of those 3. There's nothing inherently dangerous about deadlifts. It's actually a pretty simple exercise. You just have to learn how to do it properly and then actually train it properly. No one said you have to be going heavy to see results.
Any thoughts regardin Ryan Flaherty’s claim that the trap bar deadlift have the biggest transfer, of any exercise, for football?
A claim he makes in his interview with Tim Ferriss here:
ua-cam.com/video/XkFYWuc5MhE/v-deo.html
I'll check it out
For many, the risk/reward is not favorable for the deadlift. Most people don't know how to deadlift properly, and even if they did, they lack the leg strength to do the lift right without taking on tremendous risk. Looking at you, Cavaliere.
OB just talks shit on deadlifts because he sucks at them
That's not what Robert's perspective was. He said in NFL gyms , they dont do deadlifts , they do cleans. His perspective was around NFL players and that these players aren't necessarily good lifters ... Like alot of average folks. The amounts of money that NFL players make is even farther outside what most people make. His statement was a shock to me as I would think the trainers should start them from ground one and get them better technique and stability wise
I love you (no homo bruh)
My weak legs and back makes it difficult for me to set up for dumbbell bench press. Simply moving the dumbbells off the rack to my bench has me hunching over and dragging myself. Then i have to deadlift the dumbbells up to my laps. I wish my gym wasnt strict on deadlifts.
W̶̷̲̅L̶̷̲̅O̶̷̲̅ғ̶̷̲̅ᴀ̶̷̲̅ɪ̶̷̲̅ʟ̶̷̲̅s̶̷̲̅ bro change gyms lol. Or at the very least do more rows DB/Barbell rows and extensions to strengthen your back
@@jtyree0226 I'll try barbell rows, although i can't use enough weight to affect my upper / mid back since my legs won't support enough weight. I use 135 lbs on cable rows but when i do tbar rows, i can barely handle 90 lbs of plates.
Thank you for revealing your healthy hair. Drug users tend to lose it.
?
@@kiyoponnn drug users tend to get bald.
@@latsblaster I know that. You thought he was on steroids🤣🤣🤣
@@kiyoponnn No, just a reminder about look Natural, not wearing Swedish outfit in warm America!
Common sense. Anything digging down on your spine puts pressure in lower back regardless if 135 or 900 pounds. Squat. Same as deadlift. If u bend over and pick up a box. At 60 pounds. Back is compromised. These movements take technique agreed.... but not everday is rhe same....u should know simply if u pulled ur back just by stepping off a curb. Dont take what he said out Of context for reason of youtube VIEWS
I can’t take u seriously u have no chest wtf I had more of a chest even befour I stated the gym
Gynecomastia is nothing to brag about.
also you're wrong anyone who can go 120kg+ should deadlift 400kg