Could F-35, F-22, F-16 Or Warbirds Penetrate Modern Russian IADS SAM Network? (WarGames 30) | DCS
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- Опубліковано 12 чер 2024
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#WarGames #GRWarGames #IADS #SAM #F22 #F35 #Russian #DCSQuestioned #GR #DCSWorld #Aviation #AviationGaming #FlightSimulators #Military - Ігри
Don't call it an attack on Russia; call it a 'Special Military Operation" 😊
We only want to attack Putin not Russia
@@blahblah14u Good luck not getting demonetized for an attack on Putin
@@ryanhooper4660 why would u? Putin new hitler. Plenty of videos talking smack about Putin. He shouldn’t done this stupid fictional crap and kept with original video it’s all fantasy anyway.
dont worry i got the joke
@@youtubeoppressivecensorshi8047 yup! I'm pissed he ran scared about attack on...COMMIE RUSSIA!!!
From auto-subtitles/closed captions: 'There's no salmon in the world that can see thought a mountain.' Yep, gotta agree with that.
If you are worried about making geopolitical statements, just call the countries Isengard and Rivendell or something. Blowing things up is kinda the point of DCS and not blowing stuff up in the game isnt gonna save anyone anywhere IRL.
In the world where people play games, where you can mass shoot people, kill policemen and it is even a part of your mission (GTA) and some games are even advertised as WW3 simulations...
They’re specifically trying to avoid being demonetized so they’re sticking to YT’s rules, arbitrary as they may seem.
Bullshit
Well said. About time to recognize war is REAL and not just a simulation
@@unspoken24 👍👍👍
Cap pissing off flat earthers with his talk about the curvature of the earth 😂
Great work as usual! Kortana must have put an amazing amount of time and energy in putting this all together
lol
Okay, come clean ... is Cortana an actual pilot? Let alone a military pilot? She seems to be a bit more skilled than most of the other GR people. And very knowledgeable, as well. Not a put down of you guys, she is just impressing an actual pilot. 😉
Lol, nope, I'm just a groupie who has been obsessed with aviation my entire life. I'm hoping to get my pilot's license one day though 😊
@@KortanaDCS you have a lovely radio voice
@@KortanaDCS I think the minute you firewall the throttle and start doing dutch rolls at 30ft agl you will either immediately get your license or not be permitted to even passenger ever again :D
@@Kevin-hb7yq Thanks! I have been told I need to record audio books 😅
@@thedungeondelver Lmao, yeah, that is my go-to low altitude SAM evasion maneuver 😅
“If the Grim Reapers enforce a no fly zone over the Crimea in DCS we will consider it a declaration of war and use nukes” - Sergei Lavrov
Yeah, but they can only use the Mig 21 to deploy it
If grim would made the original video I guess it would start war lol I can’t believe they pussed out. He won’t have jets drop the bombs so stupid . U knw how many ppl want a no fly zone to
Blow up those dogs fighting for Putin . I screw political correctness
eek
Lol lool
🤣🤣🤣
Those simulated holographic SAM's looked very realistic.
Regarding emission "power" and what determines whether a radar can detect (vs track) any particular aircraft.... As occurred in Bosnia when an F-117 was shot down, emission "power" isn't as important as FREQUENCY. A low-frequency radar works well even against stealthy shapes and materials, and this is why most SAMs can "detect" even stealth aircraft. The lower the frequency, the more it is impervious to stealth techniques. However, the lower the frequency, the lower the "resolution" of the radar return signal - ie, a low frequency radar may only be able to tell that the target is within a 1 km "box", which isn't good enough to guide a missile to a target (unless your missile has a 1 km kill-radius - ie, a nuclear warhead). Low frequency radar receivers need a BIG antenna, too. This is why you still see those enormous, steel-frame antennas in use. This makes them hard to make into a mobile battle-field tool, but around an airport or on large naval ship, they are fine. This is why an Aegis can detect and track AND fire missiles at stealth fighters even as an F-16 with a small antenna and corresponding high-frequency radar may not be able to even detect the stealth fighter within a few hundred meters. Having more a more powerful emitter *helps* - it means whatever return you get will have that much more power when it bounces back, but if you aren't using an appropriate emission *frequency* your power level may be completely irrelevant. (Also, note that the "power" of an EM wave is proportional to it's frequency, so there may be some confusion and miscommunication when someone is citing the "power" of a particular radar system... ie, radar system A transmits at a frequency that is 10x higher than radar system B, it just means radar system A will have a finer resolution than radar system B, not that A can necessarily detect more things than B....)
You don't need a gigantic array to hold S-Band and L-Band radars. AWACS birds and mobile SAM radars can easily use S-Band and L-Band radars.
The only reason they got the F117 was because the pilots were flying the same track every night and they knew where they were.
@@christhorne116 its still shot down by a 50’s SAM system
@@startingbark0356 did you read what he said ? it's because they ALREADY KNEW where they were gonna be not because of their super duper detection "technology"
@@VladRadu-tq1pg But how did they know where they already are if they “couldn’t detect them”
So a couple of things on the Mossie, it was known to have a small RCS during the war so was relatively 'stealthy'. Most of the aircraft is made from wood but there are two areas which are not, the engines and cowlings are made from metal and the other is the canopy. Glass is also fairly good at reflecting (so is the interior of a cockpit) which is why the Raptor has a gold canopy (other aircraft have gold windscreens for the same reason) to reduce reflections. Also 'Freeman's Folly' is named for Air Chief Marshall Sir Wilfrid Freeman who was all for the aircraft when no one was.
Kortana, relating to your comment on low flying, during the now legendary Dambusters raid of May 1943 one the Lancasters flew so low over the channel it's bomb was ripped off when it hit the sea, the rear gunner complained his feet were getting wet... At least two others crashed due to hitting power lines. Guy Gibson also nearly lost his bomb flying too low over the sea but he went on to hit the target. Don't forget these are four engined heavy bombers with a wingspan of over 100ft and a length of just under 70ft.
We ended up building a radar invisible car, the Viking Car VII, in college by accident back in the early 80's. I have no idea why radar doesn't track it. WWU's Viking Car VII was a high performance sports car built to determine if high fuel economy and clean exhaust could be maintained while offering “Supercar” levels of performance. Mitsubishi provided us a experiemental carb, in return they got access to the test results. Although fuel economy on the highway was only 50 MPG, less on the LA 4 cycle, the car accelerated to 60 MPH in 5.3 seconds and could generate over 1 G in cornering. It won the A-Modified class in local Autocross competition two years running.
@@readhistory2023 the NSA/KGB would like to know your location
Much of the mozzy's fuselage and wings were wooden frames covered with layers of fabric glued together. To a radar system, a mozzy is basically two engines about 8 feet apart.
sir, we have a flight of two merlins flying in tight formation 20 km north on radar
@@normadamous - Yup! And, since the merlin is a bird of prey, there's no need to wake up the flak gunners . . .
Watching the warbirds part and Cap is talking and off to the left I could see the plooms of smoke from the rockets. And Cap is still talking away while they get closer and he isn't even noticing them at all. It was like watching a shark fin getting closer and knowing what the outcome was going to be!
Lol, yup. I couldn't see the plumes in VR until the last second. Pretty sure that the missile that got Cap also caught a piece of me 😅
I know -- it was like a nightmare where you see the trouble coming and can't move. your shark attack analogy is spot on. John williams Jaws theme all the way.
Saw some F-35s recently.
I love the sound of fighter jets taking off in the morning.
with the Warbirds the easiest thing for the radar to detect would be the massive spinning props
radar can even pick up the spinning fan in jet engines which is why the Stealth aircraft need to
hide there engines behind the intakes
Here is something you could test: fly with an f35, missle doors open, radar on, basically make yourself visible on purpose, so the sam engages at a high distance, and gives away its position. Then go to stealth mode, stay at a distance where stealth is effective to evade the enemy aa attack. After that, bomb the sam from the maximum safe distance. Or just relay the coodinates to command, which can then launch cruise missles.
F-22 has a dual UV/IR MAWS, permitting it to detect any missile launches, including passive-guided one.
The game also doesn't model radar detection accurately enough. I haven't looked into the coding but I'm almost positive that it's getting the radar signature of the F-22 wrong. It's really a hard airplane to track with the Indium Tin Oxide coating over the glass and RAM coating the main structure. Spotting it on radar is one thing, but maintaining sight of it and getting a missile to track it is another.
They already have all the specs on f22. All the electronic chips in f22 I gurrentee is from China
@@knarftrakiul3881 Physical chips are very different from the actual specs used to run the chips as well as the software on the chips. They are 2 entirely different things and you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Just because you have hands doesn't mean you can paint like Van Gogh.
@@knarftrakiul3881 the F-22 is 100% American designed and manufactured with 100% American components. Nothing is foreign.
I don't own DCS, in fact when it comes to computer games I never progressed beyond Red Alert II. But I do love these videos, I just love watching them and learning from them. That said, I do understand why certain missions would probably be a bit sensitive at the moment.
You don't have to necessarily play missions or go up against others online in DCS to enjoy it and learn from it. Most of the time I fly in DCS it's in offline of me just learning how to operate everything on an aircraft or practicing something like carrier landings. Just doing that by it's self will give you a valuable experience and insight that can't be learned any other way. Plus nowadays you don't even have to spend a dime to enjoy DCS as a casual player. DCS is free to download and there are several good free mods of aircraft to download like the A4 Skyhawk.
I'm a flight sim fan of Falcon 4 - F4BMS now, but just found system getting old and bogged down with modern flight sim graphics, and time short too. So I turned to playing C&C last year. Finishing the very first campaign I enjoyed playing with friends, like back in the day when friends were in the same room and every one had dial-up back in 95 ! Building a new and beefier PC in the next couple of weeks so I can install my purchased F-18 / A-10C modules ! Still looking forward to the quick C&C skirmishes though !!
I mean you stopped at the top of gaming so don’t feel bad.
Red alert two is one of the best game ever 😏 my father who’s in his 60’s still plays this today..
These never disappoint 🤘
Edit - You guys should start up the anti-air canyon runs again.
Sadly these don't work with the newest damage models of the planes in game, so cancelled and not sure we can get working again :(
@@grimreapers would you mind giving a quick rundown of what has changed?
@@grimreapers Bummer, I like those.
Fact that kortana is there makes it much funnier, realistic and interesting to watch
23:40 Only Radar Counter-Active Squirrels (RCAS). The CIA specially trains squirrels to block enemy radar. They wear little lead-lined jackets and hang* poses at the critical moment.
*literally
That triple F-22A super low flying after that overtake was bad arse af!
The Mossie was covered with doped fabric over the plywood. I have a framed piece off the original prototype.
wow! thx
Honestly the bit with the raptors skimming the ground was insane, can't believe I've never seen a movie or something with people going full afterburner that low. Also amazing flying from Kortana! Rattling off technical facts while mowing grass somewhere close to mach 1. Damn.
Thanks for the comment about cutting our teeth on warbirds to help us learn to fly as that is my plan. Purchased the P-51 along with the F-14 while in learning mode and fighting pc performance issues, thrustmaster hotas and track ir setup bugs… thanks to GR for their support .
Have fun!
Flying in formation seems like it would only make the radar cross section almost if not actually double. I feel like it would have been better if all the jets/planes were spaced so that the cross section of the "area" you are in is actually only just your plane. I could totally be wrong though, but it bothered the hell out of me when you were flying formation in the F-22's.
True. Never understood the close formation thing. Good if you want to hide your exact numbers from the radar. But then again...it looks cool :)
@@secularnevrosis Definitely looks awesome haha but I was just bothered by it in this case cause they were actually trying to penetrate a SAM defense system. With stealth fighters, you definitely want your cross section to be as small as possible, and flying in close formation, or any formation for that matter, definitely doesn't help what they were trying to accomplish with this mission. But hey, they made it anyway so I guess I cant be that mad haha.
Gawd that telephone pole that flew over you in the War birds, that reaction was hilarious! Watching you guys low and hummin the earth, that so exciting to watch. Because Wild Weasel shit is awesome!
Loving the low flying: "...most of the ingress... was at fifteen feet..."
That Kortana is a beast!
Remember that stealth aircraft are going to be launching MALD, support aircraft will be jamming, SAMs are going to be swarmed by extended range munitions, etc. SAMs would be stomped IRL
Looks like they can be swarmed by old Turkish drones, so a swarm of Predators carrying HARMs should make short work of them.
This was amazing flying. Maybe try a Fokker Dr.I or Sopwith Camel? I bet the RCS on those would be pretty small. I remember the story of how a Japanese trainer biplane kamikaze sank a U.S. destroyer near the end of WW II because the destroyer could not see it on radar, and the VT-fused shells would not detonate.
Oh no, Po-2 makes F-22 stall in dogfight, just kidding
I'm surprised the mast-mounted radars couldn't track Kortana's Mirage over the trees... that's sort of the point of them. Some luck involved there, I think, but luck does happen RL too, so that's accurate.
I think I was saved by the Grave Stone radars being mounted on trucks rather than masts for the S-300PMU2. I'm sure they knew where I was, but they probably couldn't get a good track with the trees in the way.
@@KortanaDCS Ah, yeah, that would do it.
Edit: Also, apologies for spelling your name wrong in the first message, I just noticed that. Not sure if it was software-autocorrect or brain-autocorrect which did it. :D
@@Maeyanie No worries 🙂
Cortana should have just dropped her gear and drove in on the side streets
The most expensive driveby in history goes to: Still the USS Texas
The pucker factor was SO high with those F-22s! Very cool stuff.
It’s a VIDEO GAME. Just bomb the pixels. People actually getting triggered at pixels being bombed especially when it’s historically accurate need to grow a pair.
Today Damp is my hero for flying the Mosquito to target successfully.
To be fair anyone who flys the Mosquito gets quadruple brownie points from me before they even take off. A win is just a bonus.
This had me on the edge of my seat! Awesome scenario!
With the real war going on, I’d be interested in you recreating some Ace Combat missions.
Could be interesting to see how some of the missions would play out in a more realistic way with things unchanged and maybe to see what would need to be changed to complete the mission
Recreating some of the less-realistic Ace Combat missions would also be funny to watch; I feel like we could all use more humor in our lives!
@@fox_the_apprentice I would love to see an arsenal bird modded into DCS haha
I would like to see this with a Growler escort.
rgr
And with the swarm of drones carrying 4 HARMs each that would precede such an attack in real life. The SAM systems can shoot down some anti-radiation missiles, but not all of them. And if Ukraine is any indication, Russian SAM systems are actually quite bad at tracking small strike drones.
ive been asking other DCS channels for F35 operation videos for the past month. F35 is gunna be around for a while, and their pilots LOVE them. depite being called fat amy, mock flight ips in the USAF shiw that it EASILY outperforms rival jets and 4th gen in nearly every way(except dogfights) please do more in the future
Actually now that the software limiters are gone, the F-35A enjoys a 16-1 kill death ratio in dogfights at Red Flag. It's more maneuverable, accelerates faster, and has a higher aoa than both the F-18 and F-16.
Reminds me of a movie quote "Well boys, we got three engines out, we got more holes in us than a horse trader's mule, the radio is gone and we're leaking fuel and if we was flying any lower why we'd need sleigh bells on this thing... but we got one little budge on those Roosskies. At this height why they might harpoon us but they dang sure ain't gonna spot us on no radar screen!"
the warbird flight -- 'we don't have any warning receivers or electronics to let us know about launches. We'll just have to look around for them' , later, everyone watching -- 'please look 11 o'clock! look! looooook!' boom.
Neat, I’ve done something similar, but I’m too lazy to figure out how the IADS mod works, so I’ve always resorted to placing hundreds of pieces into one group, which really hurts performance.
Working on a Skynet tutorial for Cap at the moment :)
if you want to fly against IADS SAM's i can recommend Liberation campaign... it has the Skynet mod in it as an option
Another entertaining video. Thanks guys and gals for another good one.
Gosh. I love the look of DCS. I just have no computer that can run it, and it's so expensive.
You guys have to run Helo's through this same sim now. ;p
Great video, well done!!!
I absolutely enjoy these videos!
I love the planning detail awesome I need to come join you guys if I can
Hehe. Close formation against huge SAM's!? Two warbirds with one "stone"?
Another 👍 awesome 😎 video guys and lady. Thanks 😊
To think, only less than 80 years ago, you had to see your targets and then lead your shots to hit them.. Now, your target could be miles a way and engage or launch a rocket that follows your enemy until destruction with single trigger.. This shit is wild.. Enjoy what you have while you can..
This was very entertaining.
Good video. The low altitudes I think are unrealistically low so this seems to ve less realistic simulated attack, more gamer fun.
Also AAA and especially small arms ground fire would be massive threat.
How well will a drone swarm perform against the same scenario? I'd be interested in that.
Cruise missile swarm
I can simulate that.
@@grimreapers do it nowwwwww
@@grimreapers Please do.
Another great video
Amazing!!!
@Single Guy Cooking brought up an interesting point. They stated that flying in formation increased the cross section and made them easier to detect. Could that be used to your advantage? Stay as a close formation until missiles out and then scramble in different directions. Would that fool the IADS?
I don't think DCS models radar beam angular resolution (which would be needed to make radar returns 'overlap' into one blob) - I'm certainly open to correction though.
In real life yes, in DCS close flight does not affect RCS at all. We tested it a while back.
Stealth will usually be used in conjunction with Jamming.
You were flying those F22's close enough together to lose multiple aircraft if a missile came in.
They knew there were no missiles coming in
The "wooden wonder". Awesome joke! Great video!
Cortana’s flying of that f22 was just amazing in it’s own
Lol, it is a really twitchy bird in certain FCS modes 😅
@@KortanaDCS you flew it amazingly
@@KortanaDCS plus I had to subscribe after seeing that too
Kortana flying the F22 at 20ft at mach 1.5 sounds so detached. Serious Kudos!
Great video
the wood planes actually hold up well , i saw a vampire (1947 model) and the owner said they actually last better than metal because they dont stress as much , its keeping them up that makes the difference
By flying formation Cap sabotaged all the missions. He made the overall cross section larger and easier to detect.
I can't help it, it's in my blood.
@@grimreapers you know what might help, you should have an actual pilot on who has faced or trained for some of these scenarios. Interview them, talk to them about air tactics. Particularly ground attack , or SEAD missions. Hook up with the Aircrew interview guy to see if you can get some of the folks that he interviews to cooperate.
@@minuteman3 Or...let the guy play his video games how he wants.
Great test guys! Well done set up Kortana
🙂
For a second there I thought you were talking to your windows assistant, and was confused.
Ok! It's time to find out 👍
Kortana is an AMAZING pilot! Pretty sure a pilot would die trying those maneuvers IRL.
Pretty sure you are right 😅. These sorts of things work just fine in DCS though. I crash, take off my VR headset, take a big swig of beer, curse for a second, and then respawn 😆
Bro stop simp.
Think that is why we are seeing more and more of the smart sea/terrain skimming weapons instead of high and fast
It's not hard to beat a SAM system.
They can be jammed, confused, or even taken over and fired or not fired by the enemy.
Israel did that in Syria.
The Syrians once launched over 109 missles at Israeli jets without shooting down a single Israeli fighter.
If there performance in recent weeks is anything to go by then a piece of cake
Interesting, should have throw-in some MANPADs in the City as well for some ambush attacks.
omg i cannot imagine doing that irl flying 10 feet off the ground😂
I think the mistake people make when thinking about "how effective stealth is?", is that they think it's binary. Either plane is stealthy or not. Either radar can see it or not. And if radar can see F-22 or F-35, then they start thinking "so what's the point of stealth"? The thing is that even if/when radars can see a stealth plane, it will be much harder than seeing non-stealth plane. If (for example, completely hypothetical numbers) radar can detect a non-stealth plane at 150 kilometres, it might detect stealth plane at 70 kilometres. So yes, it can detect the stealth plane, but the benefit of stealth would still be obvious.
It was the old OSA that took down 7 cruise missiles above Kyiv. :-)
I love the way you guys say squirrels
Forgive me if I am wrong, but I always thought stealth flying meant not banking too hard. That the aircraft is designed to provide a low radar signature when it is level but once the aircraft is banking its sides can no longer deflect the signal away but directly a back to the radar.
@28:54, Fun fact: The "," and "." keys can be used to move back and forth through a video one frame at a time.
thx
Maintaining high air speed causes the exhaust plume to be more likely to show up on IRR/IRST.
The Air National Guard C-130s used to buzz our house weekly while trying to sneak under the radar at Dover AFB. Either someone complained or they upgraded the radar because they stopped around 1990.
28:52 The funniest part. =D
Just a quick one - cap persists in saying "kinematically": he means "kinetically"
Would formation flying in 5th gen aircraft perhaps be the reason a large enough radar signature is generated to enable a missile launch? Would flying separately be a better strategy to minimise the signatures?
No, because the RCS of each 5th Gen aircraft is only the size of a…Bee.
And in fact close formation flying for non-stealth aircraft is a tactic to make them appear lesser on radar than they are. Since stealths have no such burden, they can fly however wide they want.
@@Ryan_Christopher follow up; what if they are carrying weapons externally/hard points? Wouldn't that cut into their stealth capability?
@@jimdraven2432 All bets are off when external hardpoints are involved. Those racks have the RCS of a barn when there’s a bunch of them.
Kinda like how we lost that one F-117 over Kosovo. Aside from the predictable flight path, he got painted while his bomb bay doors were stuck open or some such reason.
“They can’t shoot a missile through a tree”. 💡 we should strap trees to our aircraft.
agree
Do the modern IADS integrate AAA into the network, to handle the low flyers? Seems like something that may be taken into account: flying low to avoid missiles? we’ve got radar guided mike mikes to handle that.
To be fair, when you're flying on burner at treetop level, AAA isn't gonna get much time to orient and fire before line of sight from the gun is broken again. Even someone that's switched on with say a pdw for target acquisition speed probably won't be able to get more than 3 rounds off on full auto assuming they can point it in the general direction of the plane before it's gone again. Now trying to do that with heavier machinery it just makes it harder. At that altitude. Your biggest threat is crashing
The warbirds may be slow, crude and basically these days just SAM-sponges.... but they're still, and always will be, gorgeous machines
Those big metal props are excellent radar reflectors
At first I thought, damn that Microsoft AI got really smart...
I should probably stop drinking.
That is why they would have a Growler with them in operation
Agree
Seems like we might find out soon enough.
Cap, once the Apache is out and you and the gang are trained up, you should do this same test. Kind of a recreation of the Apaches that went into Iraq in Gulf 1 and took out the EWR and Radar sites before the first wave of fixed wings went in (except for the F-117). You should have enemy fighters looking for you also.
Cortana is a beast.
LETS GO MIX AND MATCH THAT WILL DO FOR NOW CHEERS PEOPLE .
Dr. Kortana, how would stealth drones workout against these or newer defenses?
Let's go Kortana and Cap!
Considering the metallic bounce back on the warbirds, wouldnt the mosquito have the smaller cross section because it was made of mostly wood and fabric?or am I thinking of the beaufighter?
The mosquito was famously wooden.
If the props are a big reflector, though, that’ll be little help.
Trying the Ho-229… speculation intensifies!
@Kortana always love a war games with added Kortana thanks Cap. hee hee fair and square then the Boom Boom
:)
You need a kill chain to shoot down a jet.
Detection, track, lock and fire.
The F22 and F35 makes detection hard, extremely hard.
Even when a SAM system like the S400 detects a F35 or F22 at 50 miles it's being jammed by the F35 so tracking isn't an easy thing to do.
Even within 30 miles of it finally is able to track the F35 or still needs to get a lock on.
In the meanwhile the F35 will be able to fire Harm missles at it from over 60 miles away.
Yep...You might detect the F-22 or F-35, but keeping that lock in long enough to track it and hit it, is the issue. RCS the size of a bumble bee.
NO!!!! u can't upset the russians
9:05 lol ready or not😂
22:52 insanely brilliant!🤯
23:26 no the Earth is flat haven't you heard lmao😂🤣 sorry couldn't resist
15:10 not going to show each one but it looks like the missiles are teleporting into the Plane🤔😆
23:35 Of all things to block the sights of an F-22 Raptor, Squirrels!