Revisiting the QX56 HPFP Issue with Scot and his ADDI!!!
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- Опубліковано 2 жов 2024
- Huge Thanks to Scot Nichols for coming in and going over the Infiniti QX56 with the High Pressure Fuel Pump that I diagnosed the fuel pump being out of time. There was a lot of questions in the comments and hopefully this video helps to explain and answer them. If you have other questions about the ADDI check out AutomotiveDiag.com or email Scot info@automotivediag.com
Here's the Google Drive link to the Pico Files we captured on both vehicles.
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I hope Scot gets a patent for his design and hard work. After that he should sell it to the big diag tool makers. They eventually will develope the tech and software to do what Scot has created. Sell it to them Now Scot.
You guys must have been trained in the Navy or Air Force. I'm retired Air Force. I ran circles around the college engineers when working for the Big 3! Great work guys!
I patented it 4 years ago 😊
AREN'T YOU GLAD I SUGGESTED ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, THE ADDI TOOL IT ACTUALLY REALLY WORKS . THANKS FOR TAKING THE TIME .
Thanks for this extended explanation and discussion of the high pressure fuel pump, Jake. It's a mechanical-electrical synchronized (and complicated) system. I understood perfectly what you explained and, after the fact, it's easy to see why the spill can't work out of timing (crazy!). Great job, as usual, particularly on these head scratcher cases! Very informative video!
That ADDi tool is really cool! Thanks for sharing!
These QX 56 2011 - 2012 had a recall on the timing chains. But it continues to be an issue to this day. The fuel pump has a thin cap that rolls on the camshaft. It wears rather quickly and throws the timing off for the fuel pump. The timing job is rather expensive because the entire front axle has to come out. The QX56's are notorious for stretching the chains. I've owned 3 plus 2 - QX80's. I'm not saying I'm an expert but only speaking from experience. Good luck and love your content.
In the end it all makes perfect sense. Hard to believe a system with that much critical timing between duty cycle, pump timing, and an ECU that can trigger all the events to happen exactly on time to not slam the check valve closed is being used. pretty amazing engineering, When it works. With the crazy high rail pressures these days, designing a pressure regulator appears to be very difficult at a good price point.
nice one Jake and Scott, this SENT is pretty much the manufactures cutting cost on wires , SENT is able to send , in one message , two pieces of data. I've seen it on a VW , airmass meter , sending a signal of airmass and air temp data on one wire ... Great video Jake . cheers
Yes I’ve seen it on vw/audi also in the high side refrigerant pressure sensors.
I am loving the addi. Especially with mt pro4
Just go watch John Thorntons GDI class and you’ll get all the answers you need on why a pump with a naturally closed inlet valve cannot regulate rail pressure hardly at all when pump timing is out just a little bit.
Essentially the gist of it is that if the inlet valve timing is off just a little bit and the inlet valve is not open soon enough then the pressure in the pump will be to much for the valve to open.
The ecm can regulate rail pressure much better when pump timing is out in a naturally open inlet valve but naturally closed is almost impossible.
Yes I’ve been wanting to take his in person classes but scheduling conflicts keep coming up when he has classes close to me
@@autodiagyt Check out Automotive Seminars Inc, John has live classes at night almost every other month,2 nights a week.
@@autodiagyt Check out Automotive Seminars Inc. John has live classes almost every other month.
@@autodiagyt Automotive Seminars/ Automotive Seminars/Automotive Seminars!
@@johnhnetkovsky8917 yeah I know the webinar training and I need to be doing them.
this was super helpful, thank you
Can’t explain it but vw dose the same thing. When off timing it gets fuel pressure to high dtc.
I Even don't speak English But i watch the video a couple times.. to full understand cause My English sucks But that is a Master class.. thanks alot
Just a thought but maybe the pintle solenoid that bleeds the pressure off cannot over come the force of the pressure acting on it from the timing of the pump being off. Normal operation may be to keep it open in the beginning stoke of the piston and then close it part way through the stoke to build the required pressure.
Yes that's how it functions pretty much. There was one other document that I had forgotten to go over and it might of made it more clear
I understood exactly how you explained it. Like you said, the cam for the pump should have 4 lobes. That poor pump is being overworked as if the design was to save money only having 2 lobes instead of 4, but guaranteeing a short life and complicated timing procedure. It would be REAL INTERESTING to see the scope view AFTER the pump is correctly timed. Also, how was the vehicle performance before and after the pump timing?
Very interesting video Jake!
Great diag and explanation, Jake!
As to your password problem, I strongly advise using a password manager like Proton Pass or Bitwarden
@CartersDiagnostics might have some information or insight. He’s a sharp diag tech at Nissan dealer
My boy Scot in the house. Shout out Jake. Scot you making your rounds bro.lol
I would sure like to come to the Caribbean sometime... nudge
@@automotivediag8502 Say the word lol. Bring the ADAS setup when you coming.lol
Engineers usually get bashed by mechanics but let's just admit they're brilliant. They came up with stuff like electronically controlled engines and stuff and considering how complicated all this stuff is, it mostly works as designed. 👏🏻
This is also why mechanics/technicians should be paid adequately to keep up with all the stuff these engineers come up with.
The cam for the hp pump is timed it has a dot and coloured link you could remove upper cover and check
If i have to tear it down again and retime i hope the brand new parts are still ok.
I enjoy your videos, thank you.
Audi flex fuel 2.0L engine does the same thing with stretched timing chain. It will set faults for cold start fuel pressure range performance and fuel pressure too high. Car runs and drives fine. Check timing chain tensioner and it will be fully extended. Replacing timing chain fixes problem. HPFP is okay.
I have an A4 at the shop right now with a P0016, P0088, and P0090 lol
Thank you for replying to my post on the 1st video. I had discussed that I'm having the same (on a QX80 same basic vehicle and 5.6) with maximum pressure. We did the timing chains and all related components including the fuel pump cam.....i swear we double checked it 10 times to be sure all was in time. The dot aligned with the paint mark etc. unless it jumped time when starting it idk. Regardless is it your opinion that we're gonna have to tear it all down again and redo? This is the worst timing chain job ive ever seen lol. Or...is there a work around?
I often find that when a shop does timing chains and it’s out of time is not that they didn’t line it up correctly it’s that at some point the crankshaft was rotated backwards during reassembly or the tensioners wasn’t released correctly.
is there even 1 good thing you can mention on Direct Injection, except the money possibly made by techs when the figure it out. the more i watch these type systems my 1999 Jeep Grand Cherokee and my 1994 ram 2500 i love them so much more.
switch to Android and be happy get a Google Pixel phone and get rid of these apple problems they are kinda like Direct injection just the thought of having to walnut blast the intake system lets me know its a bad idea
I have a Samsung galaxy s22 ultra also and I think the iPhone camera is better. Plus I would still need to edit on MacBook because I use Final Cut Pro which is Apple only. This was the first time I can remember it making me relog into my Apple ID account since I got it back in 2019.
Very nice! This was a brain twister. I hope you get the ADDI tool and do some videos with it.
It's definitely a cool tool and I'll order me one soon.
@@autodiagyt It would be nice if PICO would have10mV instead of 50mV at the least.
The spill process is timed by the PCM based off cam and crank signals. The duration of the spill is based off bat voltage, temperature, low pump pressure, and fuel rail pressure.
If the timing is off, so that the plunger is building peak pressure earlier than when the spill process is supposed to occur, will you see any pintle movement in the control valve solenoid waveform? According to Matthewdale174 the pressure inside the pump will be too high for the spill valve to open.
If the timing being off puts the pump in a position that that the plunger is on its intake stroke while the spill valve is activated, that should build high pressure also? I'm assuming the spill is going back into the inlet of the pump.
If the spill is open just as the plunger starts to compress, that should result in low pressure because the plunger is pushing pressure back into the inlet and there won't be enough pressure to open the outlet valve? I'm wondering if the spill valve is really controlling the pressure in the rail by dumping pressure off once the outlet valve's spring force is overcome, not controlling the volume of fuel the pump receives. Look in the chart where the solenoid is activated. It is occurring at a specific time in the outflow process and near the end of the spill process.
THe electronic John deer 4045 has a keyless cam gear that slips. Each CYL has a unit pump thats cam driven. Depending on where it slips to you can get under pressure as the plunger is driving up on the fill cycle. There is a scenario where you never fully spill due to refilling after the spill. This can happen where the spill is occuring at the end of the up stroke and partial down stroke pulling fuel back in.
really interesting. very similar to the denso diesel common rail operation. i never thought much about timing issues. but then the electronics control may be different.
I know nothing. But good video
Good work ❤
Hello Mr Jake .
What’s was wrong with the qx56?
I know you say out time but what was the symptoms?
Thank you sir.
That is all in the first video of this vehicle
I hope you don’t have backed up return line I would do a spill heck for bleed
In the first video I proved the spill solenoid works.
Hello sir i just got my diplomat at on bord diagnostic Automotive and i wanr to start to become really good at my job but i dont know how to start what i need to learn first i wish u guide me please or any one in the comments and thank you so much
Training, reading, understanding that’s the key to being good.
@@autodiagyt thank youu so much ❤️ ill do my best
I figured there had to be something physically which stopped the regulator from releasing the pressure. Your epiphany is obvious in hind sight but i certainly hadn't figured it out. LOL. Interesting system. I thought most of these GDI's released pressure after the pump somewhere so there isn't a physical timing issue, but maybe I'm wrong. I do know that the GM's i've worked on dont have any timing of the pump necessary. Just install the tappet and the pump and away you go.
The GMs are timed because they are on the camshaft. I’ve seen several out of time issues that also had fuel pressure issues. Also most GDI pumps I’ve researched regulate pressure the same way this one does but diesel engines usually have a pump regulator and a rail regulator.
@@autodiagyt Whenever I did the old equinox or traverse all you had to do was make sure you weren't on a cam lobe when installing it so you weren't trying to compress the springs, but they didn't have any timing marks.
Spill check
is this similar to diagnosedan bmw dealership blunder? incompetence
This was at a used car dealer
@@autodiagyt on his yt channel he went through a problem a bmw main dealer failed and a indy fuel pump pressure and timing linked
Well Jake I missed part 1 but this is the first time I’ve ever heard the word spill valve so I went and researched it to figure out where it was and what it does. Is it part of the high pressure pump or a separate component? I have to watch episode 1 . Thanks for sharing and explaining. Artie 👍
It's part of the hight pressure pump
Spill valve is just another term for the fuel high pressure regulator. For instance, Toyota calls it the Spill Control Valve. It's a solenoid, both wires of which go to either the ECM or in some cars a separate module which controls it based on commands from the ECM. Most of them are integrated into the high pressure fuel pump. A few cars have them on the fuel rail itself.
@@abdul-kabiralegbe5660 thank you for the explanation . Much appreciated 👍
It is well explained however how it gets out time ?
Wondering, want to learn more from you sir .
The first video shows some damage on the inside so something is broken inside or something.
Thank you sir .
Apparently I need to watch it i miss it .
Sorry.
was the timing cover ever removed to physically verity timing? were you ever able to determine why that one sprocket jumped timing
This vehicle is not getting repaired, they have opted to send it to auction the last I heard about it.
@@autodiagyt, and I think I ended up buying it! I bought from a small dealer who bought at auction. Trying to decide whether to repair the issue or replace the entire engine seeing as the broken lifter bucket piece is probably somewhere in the engine. About how much would a repair like the one mentioned in the video cost?
@@outdoormary cost will vary depending on your area for this reason I never discuss cost in my videos or comments. My advice is to get a detailed estimate from reputable shops in your area. Also wouldn’t hurt to call the dealer and ask them as well and give them your vin to check for open recalls. There is a tsb for this issue on certain vin numbers to replace the timing components and an oil squirter that sometimes gets damaged. Research is key and remember you get what you pay for. Rarely will the cheapest estimate be what the vehicle really needs to be fixed, they will almost always be reusing parts that should be replaced or using inferior aftermarket parts. So make sure the estimates are for new oem parts from the dealer because there is also alot of fake counterfeit parts online.
Well done
So with all that said, what did you do to fix it?
It needs the timing components inspected/replaced and the pump cam and lifter needs replaced.
Dude... let's back to carburettor! HAHAHA😂😂😂 easy for all of us...
Not some of us lol
The vvt solenoid is defective
The vvt solenoid isn’t involved in this issue.
This fuel pump is driven by a dedicated shaft, it's not directly connected to the camshaft itself