I took at time lapse video from the bridge where you can see the currents but nothing like the view that you have from where you took this video. Deception Pass currents are insane!
icearnett, be sure to use Current Tables, not Tide Table. Slack water times and maximum flood and ebb time, velocity and direction are given in the Current Tables, not in the Tide Tables. You can be as much as 3 hours off using tide table to predict currents. Thanks for your comments.
While waiting for the tide change at Seymour Narrows BC, I witnessed a large container ship plow into the current, get spun around, show it's bottom and loose half it's cargo. If you've got any type of deep draft, large keel, etc, you would be wise to wait for slack tide.
Looks like a Tanzer 22. Control or no control, that boat is perfectly safe doing that. The skipper probably was just trying to see if it could be done, rather than wait for slack. My question for Mr. Doan and Co. is: What in the world were you doing there??!! Heckling, perhaps? Truth is, your videos have been the original inspiration for me to get into converting my canoes into sailing trimarans. With several built now, the adventure continues wherever a canoe can be launched. Thank you.
Hi OutnBacker, No, we weren't there to heckle and I'm glad to hear he was perfectly safe doing that. It looked very risky, even worse when the power boats went by and things got rougher. He sat there, going nowhere, for a lot longer than the video shows. We were glad when he finally turned. His boat speeding and bobbing downstream reminded me of a bronco rider, so I cheered "ride em cowboy". Why were we there? We were practicing eddy turns and paddling upstream against the current. We had pulled into a small backeddy to set up our next eddyturn when that sailboat came up slowly and then was stopped by the faster current in the narrows, so we sat and watched. It is essential that white water paddlers practice fast water techniques, but in my years of sailing I never knew of a sailboat doing that. Maybe he trying to see if it could be done, but he could have figured it out a lot sooner.
That's interesting about the hull speed of that sailboat. If he had waited 2 hrs he could have motored through easily on the weakened current. The power boats did have a powerful effect in creating turbulence that bothered the sailboat. They were desplacement boats and were not plaining. Their wakes were flowing into and against the current causing the waves become steeper and higher. Uncomfortable for the sailboat, as you said.
I learned how to use tides to one's advantage going up the Hudson River, where the currents can be 4 knots (recall the A320 ditching recently...). With the flow, you motor. When it's ebb, you dock or anchor, and sleep. One can do the upstream run more quickly than the downstream. Funny how quickly the sailboat disappears downstream in this video when it turns tail :-)
@bosnsmate That may have worked but you have to remember the control of the vessel is not based on land speed but the speed of water flow over the control surfaces so powering with the current at hull speed (say 6 knots as you say) is relative to the water not the land so although the vessel is know moving down current at say 14 knot (as seen by an observer on land) he is not over his hull speed with only 6 knots of apparent water speed and as such still has stearage.
That's actually scary watching him turn around and surf down current. A little centreboard boat like that doesn't stand a chance if you accidentally let it go sideways in conditions like that. Deception here reminds me of Indian River inlet in Delaware, where under the old bridge you could have currents running at like 8 knots with whitecaps and all. Surprisingly it was worse from the bay running out than the ocean running in. Scared me enough to look at it that I've never dared sail in.
Power boaters seem to never look at tide tables or charts, but a sailboat? Once you know you've screwed up and you're not going to make it, turn around and flow back out with the tide FFS. Don't double down on your mistake with more mistakes. I'm a sailor and I've been through the pass many times. At slack tide like a sane person.
I don't blame the power boats. My interest, as a kayaker, is that the power boat wakes, flowing into the tidal current, become higher and steeper causing great turbulence. This also happens with wind wave hitting an opposing current. The effect was worsened in this case because the waves were reflected off of the cliff at the side of the pass. This is a process that kayakers need to understand to be safe on tidal waters. It was the tidal current that held the sailboat back not the power boats.
A tanzer has say a seven knot hull speed and the current is say seven or eight knots. Being that he can't go faster than the current there is no way he can retain steerage way while pointing downstream. This is why he gets swept down after he opts to turn around. A better strategy would have been to throttle down his engine to six knots and let the current take him at one knot down stream while at the same time retaining control of his vessel.
@frewcc you are correct that can happen. the thing is, if it does i have 3 other sails that can get me back. if the mast collapses, i can turn my motor on. so there are just more options to get me back. most powerboats have one motor, if it dies you are stuck unless you can get that thing started. then it is scary if you are 30 miles out and a storm is approaching. if you have never had an issue in 40 years, you have been pretty lucky. oh and yes a sailboat's only motor can die too, lol.
Thankfully in the Puget Sound it's almost impossible to be 30 miles away from anything. I think the furthest you can get from shore is about 10mi north of Sequim.
if he is going downstream he is going "with" the current so now it is not 7 or 8 knots that is only if he is standing still but going with it it becomes near zero because he is going the same speed negating it.turning around and going against it multiplies it
How to loose control of your boat : nothing can be better explained as the end of this video. This boat attempting to overpass the current is ridiculous.
There is no rule that says a boat can't travel faster than the current. There is almost always a current. What if the current is half a knot? If a boat is traveling at seven knots into a 7 knot current it will be at a standstill relative to the ground but moving at 7 knots relative to the water. If it turns downstream it will still be traveling at 7 knots relative to the water but it will be moving at 14 knots relative to the ground. Either way, it will definitely retain steerage way.
At a peak flow of nearly nine knots, 2 million cubic feet of water pour through Deception Pass per second. That's eight times the average flow of Washington's mighty Columbia River.Jul 29, 2002... but, yeah. Still a lot.
Actually, the sailboat wasn't going anywhere against the current. He was going nowhere for almost 20 minutes before he turned away. The power boats churned the water and made for a rough ride, but it was the current that stopped him. His motor just wasn't powerful enough for the conditions. I think he should have given up long before the power boats came on the scene.
Sigh. Somebody doesn't know an elementary rule. The hull speed of a Tanzer like this is under 7 knots, no matter the power of its engine (within limits of sanity...), so he should have waited for the tide to turn. The powerboats had little effect other than causing discomfort. Of course, powerboats can plane, and even then you see they make slow headway.
Bosnsmate. that's not really correct. If he turned around (if it were safe to do so and not a risk of losing steerage and crashing into the shore), he would be able to go down current. Maximum hull speed refers to SPEED THROUGH THE WATER, not SPEED OVER GROUND. If the current is 7 knots, his boat could theoretically make 14 knots over ground if the engine could push his boat at 7 knots through the water. More info on wikipedia: hull speed.
@bosnsmate Except the fact that he is in the current. Which means if he was going at seven knots and the current was at seven knots then he would be traveling at 14 knots relative to the beach. Which means he could retain control of his vessel. It's basic physics man. So whoever this is don't listen to him.
Wrong boat in wrong location. Sailboats are designed to travel under sail. The motor on the sailboat may only be a 9 HP engine. Where as the motorboats are probably traveling with 90 HP engines. The problem is not the handling of the boat. As I said, the problem is the wrong boat in the wrong water. A motorboat giving this sailboat a tow would have been the answer.
More likely wrong time of day. If the sailboat captain waited around 3 hours the current would be slack. In about 6 hours he would have 6+ knots in his favor.
Any of you ever been in a motorboat when your motor quits? Think the sailboat was in trouble? If the motor quits on a motorboat you are in BIG trouble! Trust me I know, been there more then once. Pray to the lord you are not in high winds and waves, you won't have a trusty sail to hoist up and save you. You will be thrown around like a toy, no where to run or hide especially in open water. Eventually you will take on water faster then the bilge can pump it out. Next thing, you will sink.
@bosnsmate That may have worked but you have to remember the control of the vessel is not based on land speed but the speed of water flow over the control surfaces so powering with the current at hull speed (say 6 knots as you say) is relative to the water not the land so although the vessel is know moving down current at say 14 knot (as seen by an observer on land) he is not over his hull speed with only 6 knots of apparent water speed and as such still has steerage.
Back your throttle down slowly, and allow the current to move you back till you get calmer waters.
Then turn around, safer that way.
I took at time lapse video from the bridge where you can see the currents but nothing like the view that you have from where you took this video. Deception Pass currents are insane!
icearnett, be sure to use Current Tables, not Tide Table. Slack water times and maximum flood and ebb time, velocity and direction are given in the Current Tables, not in the Tide Tables. You can be as much as 3 hours off using tide table to predict currents. Thanks for your comments.
While waiting for the tide change at Seymour Narrows BC, I witnessed a large container ship plow into the current, get spun around, show it's bottom and loose half it's cargo. If you've got any type of deep draft, large keel, etc, you would be wise to wait for slack tide.
Looks like a Tanzer 22. Control or no control, that boat is perfectly safe doing that. The skipper probably was just trying to see if it could be done, rather than wait for slack. My question for Mr. Doan and Co. is: What in the world were you doing there??!! Heckling, perhaps? Truth is, your videos have been the original inspiration for me to get into converting my canoes into sailing trimarans. With several built now, the adventure continues wherever a canoe can be launched. Thank you.
Hi OutnBacker, No, we weren't there to heckle and I'm glad to hear he was perfectly safe doing that. It looked very risky, even worse when the power boats went by and things got rougher. He sat there, going nowhere, for a lot longer than the video shows. We were glad when he finally turned. His boat speeding and bobbing downstream reminded me of a bronco rider, so I cheered "ride em cowboy". Why were we there? We were practicing eddy turns and paddling upstream against the current. We had pulled into a small backeddy to set up our next eddyturn when that sailboat came up slowly and then was stopped by the faster current in the narrows, so we sat and watched. It is essential that white water paddlers practice fast water techniques, but in my years of sailing I never knew of a sailboat doing that. Maybe he trying to see if it could be done, but he could have figured it out a lot sooner.
I take it the sailboat dude isn't the sweetest cookie in the jar.
Some people never learn.
It is tidal current. There is a short slack period before the current reverses. Current was around 6 knots in the video.
That's interesting about the hull speed of that sailboat. If he had waited 2 hrs he could have motored through easily on the weakened current. The power boats did have a powerful effect in creating turbulence that bothered the sailboat. They were desplacement boats and were not plaining. Their wakes were flowing into and against the current causing the waves become steeper and higher. Uncomfortable for the sailboat, as you said.
I learned how to use tides to one's advantage going up the Hudson River, where the currents can be 4 knots (recall the A320 ditching recently...). With the flow, you motor. When it's ebb, you dock or anchor, and sleep. One can do the upstream run more quickly than the downstream.
Funny how quickly the sailboat disappears downstream in this video when it turns tail :-)
@bosnsmate That may have worked but you have to remember the control of the vessel is not based on land speed but the speed of water flow over the control surfaces so powering with the current at hull speed (say 6 knots as you say) is relative to the water not the land so although the vessel is know moving down current at say 14 knot (as seen by an observer on land) he is not over his hull speed with only 6 knots of apparent water speed and as such still has stearage.
That's actually scary watching him turn around and surf down current. A little centreboard boat like that doesn't stand a chance if you accidentally let it go sideways in conditions like that.
Deception here reminds me of Indian River inlet in Delaware, where under the old bridge you could have currents running at like 8 knots with whitecaps and all. Surprisingly it was worse from the bay running out than the ocean running in. Scared me enough to look at it that I've never dared sail in.
Power boaters seem to never look at tide tables or charts, but a sailboat? Once you know you've screwed up and you're not going to make it, turn around and flow back out with the tide FFS. Don't double down on your mistake with more mistakes. I'm a sailor and I've been through the pass many times. At slack tide like a sane person.
Thanks for your comment. I agree.
strange how the yacht didn't go very fast when travelling from right to left but it sped up a bit when it turned around and went left to right.
Been there; got that t shirt. The Narrows will do that too. I've seen sloops with full spinnaker up going backward.
Can’t think of anything dumber than full spinnaker in those kind of conditions 😅
I don't blame the power boats. My interest, as a kayaker, is that the power boat wakes, flowing into the tidal current, become higher and steeper causing great turbulence. This also happens with wind wave hitting an opposing current. The effect was worsened in this case because the waves were reflected off of the cliff at the side of the pass. This is a process that kayakers need to understand to be safe on tidal waters. It was the tidal current that held the sailboat back not the power boats.
@bosnsmate That is very interesting and informative. Thanks for your comment.
A tanzer has say a seven knot hull speed and the current is say seven or eight knots. Being that he can't go faster than the current there is no way he can retain steerage way while pointing downstream. This is why he gets swept down after he opts to turn around. A better strategy would have been to throttle down his engine to six knots and let the current take him at one knot down stream while at the same time retaining control of his vessel.
@gary32080 indeed, she was a power driven vessel according to the rules
also he sould be going along the side not the middle if going against it.the current is always much faster towards the middle
That guy is crazy for trying that
@frewcc you are correct that can happen. the thing is, if it does i have 3 other sails that can get me back. if the mast collapses, i can turn my motor on. so there are just more options to get me back. most powerboats have one motor, if it dies you are stuck unless you can get that thing started. then it is scary if you are 30 miles out and a storm is approaching. if you have never had an issue in 40 years, you have been pretty lucky. oh and yes a sailboat's only motor can die too, lol.
Thankfully in the Puget Sound it's almost impossible to be 30 miles away from anything. I think the furthest you can get from shore is about 10mi north of Sequim.
if he is going downstream he is going "with" the current so now it is not 7 or 8 knots that is only if he is standing still but going with it it becomes near zero because he is going the same speed negating it.turning around and going against it multiplies it
How to loose control of your boat : nothing can be better explained as the end of this video.
This boat attempting to overpass the current is ridiculous.
There is no rule that says a boat can't travel faster than the current. There is almost always a current. What if the current is half a knot?
If a boat is traveling at seven knots into a 7 knot current it will be at a standstill relative to the ground but moving at 7 knots relative to the water. If it turns downstream it will still be traveling at 7 knots relative to the water but it will be moving at 14 knots relative to the ground. Either way, it will definitely retain steerage way.
There's a reason they print tide and current charts.
All this hate for power boats. Was not the sailboat under "power" too ? I didn't see the sails raised. The guy should have checked the tide schedule.
Is it me or his trying to go against an ebb flow? that current must be 12, 15 knots or more - good grief.
At a peak flow of nearly nine knots, 2 million cubic feet of water pour through Deception Pass per second. That's eight times the average flow of Washington's mighty Columbia River.Jul 29, 2002... but, yeah. Still a lot.
Most NWterners know to wait until max flood or ebb before doing Deception Pass in a boat like that.
Actually, the sailboat wasn't going anywhere against the current. He was going nowhere for almost 20 minutes before he turned away. The power boats churned the water and made for a rough ride, but it was the current that stopped him. His motor just wasn't powerful enough for the conditions. I think he should have given up long before the power boats came on the scene.
That boat has a maximum speed of about 6 knots. (Water-line Length). Good luck!
Seems like the sailboat could of waited for a better time.. very dangerous and you know the powerboats will be flying through to maintain steerage.
Sigh. Somebody doesn't know an elementary rule. The hull speed of a Tanzer like this is under 7 knots, no matter the power of its engine (within limits of sanity...), so he should have waited for the tide to turn. The powerboats had little effect other than causing discomfort. Of course, powerboats can plane, and even then you see they make slow headway.
Maybe he was just plain stubborn - or, having a blast.
Bosnsmate. that's not really correct. If he turned around (if it were safe to do so and not a risk of losing steerage and crashing into the shore), he would be able to go down current. Maximum hull speed refers to SPEED THROUGH THE WATER, not SPEED OVER GROUND. If the current is 7 knots, his boat could theoretically make 14 knots over ground if the engine could push his boat at 7 knots through the water. More info on wikipedia: hull speed.
bet he crapped himself going with the tide.. no steering at all
@bosnsmate Except the fact that he is in the current. Which means if he was going at seven knots and the current was at seven knots then he would be traveling at 14 knots relative to the beach. Which means he could retain control of his vessel. It's basic physics man. So whoever this is don't listen to him.
washington state
he needs more cowbell! actually what he needs is a tidal change... there's the easy way, then there's this way.
Wrong boat in wrong location. Sailboats are designed to travel under sail. The motor on the sailboat may only be a 9 HP engine. Where as the motorboats are probably traveling with 90 HP engines. The problem is not the handling of the boat. As I said, the problem is the wrong boat in the wrong water. A motorboat giving this sailboat a tow would have been the answer.
More likely wrong time of day. If the sailboat captain waited around 3 hours the current would be slack. In about 6 hours he would have 6+ knots in his favor.
no, it is not...unfortunately...it only should be
lol, GO GO GO GO GO!
Any of you ever been in a motorboat when your motor quits? Think the sailboat was in trouble? If the motor quits on a motorboat you are in BIG trouble! Trust me I know, been there more then once. Pray to the lord you are not in high winds and waves, you won't have a trusty sail to hoist up and save you. You will be thrown around like a toy, no where to run or hide especially in open water. Eventually you will take on water faster then the bilge can pump it out. Next thing, you will sink.
You will not win at Deception Pass, go at slack, if your a sailing vessel!
Motor boats are really a menace.
Not the best Kayaking postions
Americans..
Typical sail boater.
@bosnsmate That may have worked but you have to remember the control of the vessel is not based on land speed but the speed of water flow over the control surfaces so powering with the current at hull speed (say 6 knots as you say) is relative to the water not the land so although the vessel is know moving down current at say 14 knot (as seen by an observer on land) he is not over his hull speed with only 6 knots of apparent water speed and as such still has steerage.