BattleTech Force Building: 3070s Com Guard
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- Опубліковано 16 чер 2024
- I spent a month tinkering with and trying out a 3070s Com Guard force for BattleTech using a C3 network. This video covers my thoughts on picking the units that I did, and then how the list performed across four games at my local store.
The lists that I discuss in the video:
v1: scottsgameroom.com/wp-content...
v2: scottsgameroom.com/wp-content...
v3: scottsgameroom.com/wp-content...
A text version of this is available on my blog: scottsgameroom.com/2024/06/17...
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Great overview! I also really appreciate the great captions, thank you for those.
nice unit composition
I am doing the exact same thing -- building a 3050-70 era Comstar force. I've only played a few games with the Improved C3, but I've had good results pairing a Mercury, Flashman, Lancelot, and King Crab. The Mercury runs up to spot, the Flashman and King Crab attack, and the Lancelot loiters in the back. This is especially helpful for the King Crab, lowering the range penalties for its AC20s. I've also tried the Crab CRB-30, but it (and to a lesser extent the Lancelot) have major heat problems
A nice concise run through and it's always valuable to hear about experiments that didn't quite work as well as ones that do.
I love seeing that Lancelot. It's a favorite mech of mine.
The risk/reward on C3 seems like a tricky thing to balance. Very cool lists, and a very cool experiment!
as someone looking into comguard, this has been pretty helpful. i finally understand how c3i works and that you dont HAVE to have 6 units.
also, as someone with a growing clans collection, i love the clan list you played against. Guy pulled up, shouting: " FUCK IT, WE BALL" XD
So, kinda unrelated, but do you have a gallery of your Comstar painted mechs? I'm new to the game, and I often have a hard time parsing what's supposed to be what on a mech. Yours are really clear and crisp, and make it really easy to distinguish the various features.
Closest thing I have right now is my instagram account: instagram.com/scottsgameroom/
@@scottsgameroom1 That's really cool, thank you :)
That was interesting. My group never really go past 3060 in games. The ECM and C3I battle adds a whole new dimension. Is there and fast hovers you could sub in that have a C3I ?
ComStar's options are limited there. They have a Beagle Hover Scout and a Sprint Scout Helicopter that could serve as fast C3i spotters. Given how fragile those are, I think you'd want to at least double up on them if you were using them as your spotters.
Some further thoughts:
- The Battle Cobra C* is kinda lame due to technological and design constraints. I get why you picked it but you'd been better off without it.
- FASA designed C3i for C*/WoB base six units and not four machine lances, so you're also wasting tonnage and capabilities here.
- C3 kind of shines in the Invasion era, because in the later eras - as you realized - there will be a lot of ECM on the field. CGL tried to counter that a bit with ECCM options and boosted C3 but given the low weight of an ECM vs. the various C3 variants I'm skeptical how much that really changes things.
ComStar's Battle Cobra is definitely a flawed design (too slow for a 40 ton unit), but I think it performed pretty well in the games I played. The only game where it struggled was the 4th when my opponent got a few lucky LRM 20 hits on it and essentially knocked it down to just one MRM 10 by the end of turn 2. Personally, I'd say the Lancelot/Crab is the weakest entry in the lists I played. If I had more miniatures available to pick from, that's what I'd prioritize replacing first.
The tonnage of C3i definitely pays off better with a full 6 units, but in a BV balanced game that doesn't really matter. Bigger networks have more of a BV cost too.
We tend to play later eras locally, and ECM really is more something that ends up in lists just because a unit someone otherwise wants to take has one than something people are specifically bringing. I'm sure more people trying C3 would cause that to start to shift, but even then, countering one ECM unit in an enemy force wasn't too bad. The biggest obstacle to dealing with that is canon unit selections that combine ECM or iNarc along with C3 computers, but your opponent would also be restricting their options a bit by making sure they bring ECM in the first place.
@@scottsgameroom1
'The tonnage of C3i definitely pays off better with a full 6 units, but in a BV balanced game that doesn't really matter. Bigger networks have more of a BV cost too.' - It does matter, since BV is based on the units stats. I can easily take your lance, switch out the Battle Cobra for an Sentinel or a Crab, go for variants without C3i for the rest and then swamp you with 1-2 additional units from your available mini pool @ 4/4 or keep your slighty modified lance @ mostly 3/4.
'We tend to play later eras locally, and ECM really is more something that ends up in lists just because a unit someone otherwise wants to take has one than something people are specifically bringing.' - Well, WoB had a boner for C3i so the rest of the IS started packing a lot more ECM as a cheap/light counter. So you will see more ECM automatically, either on new design or era-appropriate variants of older units.
@@jochenwenzel8878 my point there was that C3i's tonnage being balanced for 6 units doesn't matter to the BV system. In a BV balanced game, you're looking at what you get for the BV cost not what you get for the tonnage of the unit. Running a network of 6 units is more expensive BV-wise than running a smaller network.
Classic with Gunnery 4.....that is a choice...nice video though!
Locally, we tend to run a lot of 4 gunnery with occasional upgrades to 3. The BV cost of going 3/4 means that you tend to find yourself up against opponents that can outlast you with their armor & structure advantage. For a C3 force like this, I'm already paying a good amount of extra BV on improvements to my accuracy, so spending even more of my budget on it felt like it would leave me without enough durability in the list.
@@scottsgameroom1 I just hate the TN's at Gunnery 4. I'm playing a roboto shooter, I want to be able to actually shoot things. The TN's at gunnery 4 are just insanely high, at least to my way of thinking. How people play at that level is beyond me. But I guess each person has their own experience
I've always wanted to noodle around with C3i, but with as prevalent as ECM is in later eras, it just feels like too much of an investment.
I think it's key to play with the ECCM optional rule so that a list using C3 has the opportunity to still work in the face of an opponent with ECM. Otherwise, any ECM at all is going to almost completely neutralize the BV spent on the network for a tiny fraction of its cost. In pick-up games locally, ECM is something that tends to just show up on accident rather than being a big consideration despite us tending to play later era lists. I'm sure if more folks were using C3 though then that could shift over time.
Yeah my conclusion are pretty much the same using davion c3
Uh oh. I don't have a battle cobra. What would you suggest I use to substitute?
The Com Guards don’t have much else that fits the niche I had the Battle Cobra in. If you have an Ostscout, that can be a fast C3 spotter at a similar BV cost to the Battle Cobra. Taking that though, you’d be able to also look at replacing the Spartan with something that can fight better at range with the Ost getting close for it. Alternatively, you’d be looking to replace the Battle Cobra’s firepower with something heavier that comes in at more BV.