Cam Change Gains 60+hp.
Вставка
- Опубліковано 26 гру 2024
- I show what happened when we switched cams on the 408 Ls dyno mule.
Link to purchase digital copy of all dyno results from the Ls so far.
weingartnerrac...
Link to preorder Ls book when all testing is done.
weingartnerrac...
Even thought I’m not an LS guy, great videos!
Bit of info here, my 3200 lb bmw traps 125 mph, it has a 11.2 comp 370 with very similar cam, it has 706 heads with stock 1.89 valves, but I did do what I could porting to the stock valves, plan to upgrade heads eventually! Now put a 212 cam in the sbc and see what happens once it’s fixed! Love your comparisons and videos! I know it’s not cheap and takes loads of time, I appreciate it
Back in 2012 or so, for the EMC, a shop in Georgia built a 408 with the factory CNC Ls3 heads. Used a bit milder cam, on a 109+5 LSA. Wanna say it was a 226/232 .625 lift. That thing was a mule. Flattest torque curve I'd seen to that point. I bet them AFR heads would do even better. It was in HotRod, or Super Stock, can't remember. But I do remember torque was around 500 at 2500, HP at around 625. I needed it in my mud truck.
Thanks for your hard work Eric, we appreciate it.
Incredible power for low duration camshafts. Goes to show how outstanding the LS’ efficiency actually is.
Great info. OK, now dominator and a spacer.
Huge gain pretty cool man. Learn more the better.
Love the LS mule ! Just think, there's an easy 100+ more HP over the 633 with the right heads/cam/compression.
That TSP is showing the tip of great cams. BTR has a 400+ci NA cam i want to try, supposed to be quite good !
Would you be willing to try it Eric?
Wish i could send you some serious heads like FED or CID etc...
After the last video, cause I am not an LS guy at all, I had to go a search and look up all the parts.
I’m still lost with what LS engine has what bore and stroke and all the LS labels. Cause it’s been a life time of knowing small blocks and big blocks. Now I have to learn new crap. And I really don’t want to. Cause I probably won’t ever go LS.
Anyway.
Checking the Brian tooley website. This is what I found.
The BTR truck Norris cam is designed for basically stock engines. It’s a result of lots of testing from btr for those that want a mild upgrade. They tested both the 5.3 and the 6.2 dyno graph on the website. The tests on btr was the 6.2 L92 with 823 heads. The dyno showed 499hp. That’s a stock 6.2.
stock bore and stroke L92 LS3 4.065x3.622,
to the 408 LS dyno mule here that has a specs of 4.030 x 4.000 stroke.
376 cid vs 408.
So Naturally these numbers will be bigger.
as far as cam degreeing, while its a very good step to do, i've only heard its benefits are when people use cheap parts because things are out of whack so to speak. custom blueprinted cams tend to come in almost perfect, especially with good timing gears/crank..... it's when you start using inferior parts where it becomes more critical.... also people need to be aware that just degreeing in #1 and you are all good can lead to disappointment because i know some folks that had issues with other lobes on the cams, again..... i wouldn't say they were blueprinted high end parts. you get what you pay for as they say.... i'm not so much a fan of mass produced parts..... a few $ on a cam to get it custom cut is worth it....
I wish BTR would see this @ send you a comparable size camshaft! Even just to test! There are a lot of failures with other brands! Also, sometimes valvetrain issues! BTR not only dynos there cams, they also spintron there cams! Never mind, QC everything to make sure you aren’t getting shit china parts! I would spend my cash with BTR! Just saying! Nice work Eric! 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Keep them comming.
Thank you for sharing this
Speaking from experience, if the TSP cam had 8-10 degrees less exhaust timing it would have made more torque below the peak, maybe making more torque than the BTR cam from 3800 or so, while only costing a few hp at the peak. People cam these engines wrong, and I don't understand why. It's like they are chasing that peak hp number on a dyno print out at the expense of everything else. These heads are very strong for the displacement they feed, with the high rocker ratio decent compression and so on the intake valve should be closed later in the cycle to take advantage of the volumetric efficiency, and for NA combos these need very little cam advance.
If you keep the LSA the same and with less exhaust split, like you said 8-10° less exhaust, it also makes the idle and low speed way better. If you have anything that you arent swapping slicks on weekends you are way better off shaving a handful of hp at redline so you can live with it every other day.
It's probably the intake vs exhaust flow of the 823 heads. Can't eat like an elephant shit like a mouse as my old auto tech teacher would say
@@timothybayliss6680The better drivability and easier tuning probably should be the deciding factor for most people. I think it's often overstated how much torque you're giving up with these longer exhaust duration LS3 cams - yes, you lose a little below 3500 RPM, but you get back a similar amount of horsepower at the top of the rev range. And in both cases we're talking, what, maybe 5-10 tq/hp at most? So not a big deal either way as far as that's concerned. However, ~4 degrees less of overlap will definitely make a noticeable difference in how the car behaves and/or the amount of time spent tuning to get it to that point.
I’ve got a similar short block with a set of Mamo 26X ls3 heads (AFR 260 with Tony’s cnc program) with a 244/257 .675/.675 cam. Now I’m wishing I would have went a lil smaller on the cam. Should be strong though
That Engine Guy did a similar build recently albeit the Smeding, BPE, Liberty (all the same) Ported Heads and a 250 degree intake cam.
Made 720-730hp turning it 7500. Definitely better than a “Old Small Block” 😉
Bill grumpy Jenkins took an old SBC 331cid and made 750hp back in the 1970's- 80s
One variable at a time
Of course the gain was big, that first cam was tiny. That first cam was for a truck, those kinda suck. That first cam was choking that engine. I think you could go up to 250 deg on the intake, it will make more, but the low end will suffer.
Do You want some 317 Ls Cathedral heads Eric?
Great info!!!
That's both small cams for a 408. Sbc 406 had huge cam vs ls cam
Not really you can’t compare duration at 0.050 from a hydraulic roller to solid roller. Those measurements assume no lash. With a solid like in the sbc it had .021 lash which means the actual duration at 0.050 is smaller than the cam card. When you do the math it’s only about 8 degrees more advertised than the Texas speed.
@WeingartnerRacing on my solid roller from cam motion being a low lash you can take away 5 deg of duration.
251/262 solid is equivalent to 246/257 from kip a at cam motions mouth. Yours being regular lash assume 10deg which is still 20 deg more than the stg 2 cam. Plus as you said. Solid roller sbc to hyd for Ls
hi, I like your videos. How many miles on the street can I can drive an LS engine with a .622 lift camshaft??? How many with a the truck norris cam?
Dude the 243 v the promaxx small bore head is my dilemma on my LS1 glad to see you will be doing research on that
Here's my question: How does an SBC stroker tend to outpower or come close to an LS, when most SBC are running less intake port CC ??? I see this a lot in 400+ cubic inch builds.
If you have less runner flow, to make up for it you can hold the valve open longer. More rpm, more power. They do the same on limited dirt car engines.
Another thing to consider is the port may be longer. Less valve angle raised port very well may be longer than most SBC
This engine needs a good aftermarket cathedral port and a cam made for that 4" stroke.
With the GM gen 3 & 4 engines, better cams give the most power per dollar.
IMO, do a cam & springs before heads. Then when you want more power, get the heads. The LS stock engines can take big cams in stock form. Not many gen 1 or 2 sbc truck engines can make 500hp out of the junk yard with just a cam & spring change.
60hp? You gotta pump those numbers up. Those are rookie numbers in this racket..
Eric are you sure you are not using the 6.0 block with a 4 inch bore. I think the valve spacing on the 823 head is to wide to fit the small bore blocks.im sorry Eric, I misunderstood what you said.
It’s a 408 using the 6.0 block. 4.030 bore 4 inch stroke.
@@WeingartnerRacing I thought you said 4.8.w hen you said to 408.you will start to like the ls platform. It took me years to work with them, I have one in my toy and it makes good power is hanging together so far.
Nice.
The same LSA on both cams?
What is (are) LSAs?
He says it
Watch the video I say and show.
107 and 112
I think 212 @ .050 Intake for 408 cubes is way too small. The head swap verifies this.
Almost the same horsepower-oh, but 31° less intake lobe! I think there might be room for improvement…
Not exactly. The solid cam has a lash ramp that takes up duration. According to math the advertised numbers are only 8 degrees different. It could be closer at 0.050.
@@WeingartnerRacing I’m surprised. 229° at 0.050” vs 260° at 0.050”, should be above the various ramps or lack thereof. I must be missing something
@@bdugle1when you see the numbers on a cam card for solid roller they assume zero lash but they never run that way and changes the actual 0.050 numbers as far as duration
I thought the sbc comments were tough.
The first comments he said about the LS testing was all the LS fanboys were gonna jump on the band wagon. And I see all the arm chair quarterbacks fanboys are here!!
I don’t see anyone else dyno testing any engines, I see a lot of gum flapping and opinion, but that’s it.
It I see dyno results from Eric.
Maybe some of you should make books and do your own testing, spend your own money. Cause all of you are really ruining it for the novices. I’m sure all of you “builders” probably believe fast and loud was good car show instead bs and drama.
You might learn something if you pay attention.
I was attacked on a forum when I said some "pro" engine builder was wasting his time with a degree wheel.
Everyone was laughing at me, but it's true, there's no point in doing it.
As long as you know the PTVC maximum and minimum in relation to your cam gear markings, you can just degree the cam in on the dyno.
I laugh at people that act all high and mighty about being super top "pro" engine builders because they know how to use a degree wheel.
Like you said it just shifts the power peak up or down in RPM, so you adjust it on the engine dyno and where the engine is happy, leave it there.
It's not a critical aspect and it doesn't need a dial gauge to check it.
Then people argue that how do you know the cam is ground right, well if you're a "pro" engine builder, shouldn't you have a cam checker?
It’s always best to check it.
@WeingartnerRacing but why? If you have a cam checker in the shop, I can't see why it's needed.
And the wrong cam lobe argument fails as a degree wheel won't pick up the actual grind only the peak lift and duration @50 whereas the cam checker can tell you the grind specifics.