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I love how you’re willing to admit that you don’t notice a difference between streaming from the Samsung and streaming from the M10. It can be frustrating as a beginner when people talk about hearing “night and day” differences between sample rates when you’re just trying to get a handle differences between loudspeakers or amps.
THANK YOU! Very interesting AND VERY WELL explained... I'm a professional specialist in pedagogy and you do not hesitate, several times to repeat (appropriately) the same info in different manners in different contexts. So, the whole explanation becomes very clear. Bravo and thanks again!
And I'm adding this: In your attitude, I like your frankness and the fact you do not hesitate showing that you may have some doubts about this or that... 🙂 People always 100% sure and certain about everything are really "difficult to stand" !
Been waiting for this exact video for quite some time and this helps a ton, especially because I can ultimately bypass the TV digital output via roon, while still streaming high bitrate through my streamer. Best of both worlds without worrying about degradation of sq.
Apple TV and Apple Music is my go to for lossless playback and control on my TV. Very happy with the results pumping through my STRDN 1080 Sony AMP playing in direct/2 channel through my Kef Q750s. Music sounds as good as it ever has for me and I get to enjoy rich album art and album/artist info.
Thanks John, this is the one video I had been waiting for a long time. When, at the end of your videos, you ask about whether we like your approach to XYZ, this is it. We like your approach to seriously considering Smart TVs as streamers, and your investigations.
Really interesting! Looking forward to the next installment on this topic - it's refreshing to get content about how we use these things in the real world, with TVs and streaming boxes in our living rooms as I'd imagine that most of us don't have dedicated listening environments and need to consider the usability/simplicity and practicality with other household members (wife and 2 kids in my case) whilst scratching our audiophile itches.
This is exactly what I'm interested in. I'm thankful that someone in the community is shedding light on this topic. I'm personally ditching the surround sound system and building a HIFI "budget" system that integrates the best of 4K Reference fidelity and Audiophile capability in a 2 channel system for an apartment. JBL 4309 Professional Studio Monitors. MARANT Model 40N Panasonic 9000 4K player The 40n is the best integrated that allows me to interconnect TV, Speakers, CD Streaming and videophile capability in one seemless system. How is it that we are in 2022 and we are still have to run 2 separate systems. Living in an apartment we don't have the space for this but we have the desire to have the best money can buy.
We'll probably never reach "Audio Nirvana" and be happy with every aspect of every element comprising the total auditory experience but in the meantime I'm enjoying this ride with you and you make it so much more interesting! Thank You! 🙏
Thank you for covering this topic. I have been using my smart TV as my streamer for over a year. The optical out goes to a Schitt Modius DAC. I use Tidal as my music service and have always wondered what the sample rate was with this setup. If mine is 48K, as yours is, I'm quite happy with that. Thanks again. and you have a new subscriber.
And my Nvidia Shield is playing gapless both in the Tidal app and from Tidal in Plex. Not sure what sampling rate you get with usb out to a proper DAC (still using HDMI to TV for picture), but Android TV OS is probably still the bottleneck for Hi-Res…
Interesting. I was looking into the shield recently and some people were saying updates killed plex functionality... and I couldn't get a clear answer on sound quality...
This is the video that I've been waiting for. Thank you, John. I'm using the TV for streaming now with no external DAC (just the TV analogue output) into a tube amp. It's not ideal at all. There's room to improve!
Great video. We missed you in Chicago. I kept it super simple: I have a fan less PC (like a Nuc) running Audirvana out to Schiit Bi-Frost ect. I only use the TV as a display. That way I get my bit perfect play back and all my album art ect.
Another nice and informative video🙂 I much prefer this kind of content to product reviews since I'm more into the technology than knowing how one speaker or piece of electronics performs differently than another.
Just bought a new Sony TV. Google/ Android TV OS. Installed the Amazon Music app. Plugged a USB cable into the TV (socket purpose is for USB drive or Hard Drive, with media files). Plugged the other end of USB cable into my Topping DAC. Now have full Ultra HD audio bit rate, into DAC without the limitations of toslink or jittery HDMI. No special settings. Only downside is the DAC has to be switched off (not in standby) for the TV speakers to switch back on.
Hey John, another well researched, extremely detailed (“No’darf mate!”) video that, yet again, has got me thinking - as been thinking about upgrading our VERY outdated, but adequate, TV for quite some time to a Smart TV; principally to get rid of the slightly ridiculous collection of different ‘set top boxes’ I’ve gathered over the years (inc. Roku and an old 2nd or 3rd gen. Apple TV). For me the idea of a large ‘now playing’ display is nice, but not the main purpose for our usage, though it definitely has quite a bit of appeal. Just FYI, seen as you haven’t tried an Apple TV, one even better use I could see for it in this kind of situation is the ability to do “Screen Mirroring” generally, for pretty much every app on iOS devices, and that would take the experience to the next level with Roon. Screen mirroring my iPad while using the Roon app to choose my music, goes beyond just showing the ‘now playing’ info and artwork; it means your whole music exploration experience can be displayed on the big screen, along with the artist bio’s, album info/reviews, lyrics, credits/related artists - the whole shabang! In fact this way, you won’t even have to compromise on playback quality/downsampling, or gap-less playback, or even the cabling or audio stream routing; Roon would take care of the streaming quality and endpoint destination of choice, in fact … come to think of it you don’t even need a Smart TV! Any TV with an HDMI socket to connect the Apple TV, and your household wifi takes care of both your iOS device and the Apple TV connection and the mirroring between them. Shame Apple TV’s are so limited for TV streaming variety though, so I still need a Smart TV for other reasons. Anyway, not sure if this helps? 👍
I just got an Apple TV box to plug into my 7.2.6 system to hear the flood of recordings that are coming out in spatial. As expected, the classical & jazz effect is mostly ambiance, but a nice addition. Some pop stuff like Lord's Royals uses the surround speakers occasionally for backing vocals. Then there's the raucous party music that has instruments coming from all over the place. Beforehand, I thought that was a silly use of Atmos, but upon hearing it, it's just a lot of fun. It sucks though that Apple Music won't pass the Atmos signal when the app is played on Google TV or Fire TV dongles. Having the lyrics scroll by on the Apple TV box is a nice addition though.
What brand is your 7.2.6 amp Bob? Edit: And I'd be interested to know what "party music" you listen to that utilises the surround abilities if that's not too much trouble. Cheers :)
It may be that more than sample rate is effected by routing sound through the TV. I notice there is a significant difference in the sound of music being passed from my TV HDMI to AVR depending of whether it is sent as PCM or auto ( DD) . ( TCL TV, Onkyo AVR.) If auto is selected for sound over HDMI then the TV sends Dolby digital audio to the AVR. If PCM or passthrough is selected then PCM is sent to the AVR. Usually Auto (DD) sounds better for TV and PCM better for music. Also it is worth mentioning there is a good app called equalizer + for android TV/devices that allows easy equalizer adjustments for sounds being sent through the TV.
This is so interesting you've been on this path of finding 'something to look at' with streaming audio, because I have lately as well. I ended up hacking my amazon fire tablet so the screen stays on all the time (when I want it to), and the case it is in folds out to keep it standing upright on it's own...works pretty well!
Hi John, excellent video. You have to take advantage of what you have at home. I particularly use the Xiaomi Box S as a streamer. I use the USB output it has, it enters my DAC and from my DAC to my vintage Scott amplifier from 1978. I have done tests and it really is high resolution with the native Tidal and Qobuz applications, reaching up to 24 / 192. Now If the streaming is through Google cast, it is 24/96, which is the maximum that this protocol supports. It would be good if you did that test on your channel. Greetings from Santa Fe, Argentina
I have a B&O Beovision 8-40 TV and have a Chromecast dongle plugged into it. Straddling that, Dali Zensor 3 speakers, that run into an Onkyo A 9050 amp. I do have the TV hooked up to the Amp, but the speaker bar in the telly is that good I often just listen through that when watching stuff. Hooked into the amp is a Raumfeld connector that has built in Chromecast/Tidal etc. Around the house I have google nest speakers. Honestly, it all sounds absolutely fantastic. I just created a group for the TV and all speakers in the google home app, and off I go! The speaker bar in that TV is incredible and acts as a central stage, supplemented by the hifi speakers,, then piped to the various nest speakers. Honestly, once the levels are all set up properly, it sounds like im in a club i love it! The Raumfeld streamer box thing plays high res audio, but tbh Spotify on high quality setting sounds as good as my CD's on this set up. I really hear no difference. It's actually why i am super intrigued about this channel and "higher end" stuff in general. I really dont know what im missing!?! It might be night and day different, but this kit hardly cost much at all and sounds top :) Oh and I can also wi-fi connect my NAS drive to the raumfeld thing, so its all networked via the app and can play natively through the TV back through the Chromecast dongle. Simple!
Brilliant solution for a single point source. I wish there was a way to breach into a full house party mode with multiple "now playing" screens and decent stereo noises!
This was the most practical video I've seen in a while. Had some issues recently where my Roon setup wasn't seeing any audio outputs and it was a pain to resolve. My next step will be to try your suggestions for a now playing screen on my TV. It's an older Samsung though so I'm sure it doesn't have all the capabilities of yours so I'll probably have to use an external device.
I stream via my LG C1 all the time, for family room casual listening. Never for my own actual music listening sessions though. That almost always involves headphones, a DAC/Amp and either the Sony WM1A or my iPhone 13 Pro Max. Your recent evaluation of a smart TV as part of your setup has made me wonder though, perhaps it’s time to repurpose the Sonos system in the family room and get the NAD or Naim Uniti and a decent set of speakers. I use Qobuz and Apple Lossless BTW Cheers John
My TV setup is Apple Music on Apple TV > airplay to HomePod as center speaker + 2 x ikea picture frame speakers (stereo pair) on the sides. It supports wireless 24/48 lossless via airplay 2 and sounds surprisingly good👌🏼
My Samsung smart TV was my first streamer, only recently I added a Chromecast audio to my hifi! Also allways used my hifi to hear to TV sound! Also have a hard disc with music and movies connected to the TV. Before that had an WD TV media player in both alone and wifi versions!
That's why you need to insert a laptop (or a small box PC) with windows in your system , and bypass all the google&android&samsung apps ... long live foobar 2000
My solution for years: laptop>dac>3.5 to rca>amp. Laptop to tv via hdmi. Also you can do tv audio out 3.5 to rca to amp, but no reason unless you want to control tv apps with the tv remote and get lower quality sound. TVs also have audio controls to interface with amps, so you may find help there - though it's always a pain. One thing that plex refuses to do is to let the app on your phone or tablet work like roon does, i.e., work as a remote and now playing interface. It's been requested by thousands of people for years, but they refuse. One more thing, if the plex music app is your thing, my set-up allows you to use it.
Gapless playback via Chromecast IS AVAILABLE if you use the 'Hi-Fi Cast' music app for Android phones. I stream flac files from my PC's hard disk, to my phone and then to my Chromecast Audio.
I have a dell tower running tidal through audirvana. I’ve got it connected to tv with hdmi video and audio to a project dac. Browsing is done onscreen via wireless mouse and keyboard. Audirvana allows large display of artwork on tv.
For casual listening I sometimes use the Apple TV hooked up to my TV and eARC to my NAD M10 (v1) and it works great. Being able to use Tidal om my NAD, iPhone, laptop and TV is really nice.
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Hi John, Thanks for your contents always well filmed and detailed. Just tried today and I can confirm you that Plex on an Apple TV is actually gapless. (on concert album). This allows me to have lossless gapless music on my TV through my Denon receiver Have a nice day and continue your good job
John - so funny you should do this video today. I faced the same issue but wasn’t willing to forego lossless. For my solution within my newly set-up Roon environment was to pick up a sub-$100 Mac mini (2014 i5 4gb) and use Roon bridge. It’s a clean OS install with Roon bridge and an open safari tab. I get lossless through my Denon AVR3700 and a Roon display through Safari. Highly recommended.
There is a huge diference between eARC and regular ARC HDMI. Atmos only on eARC. The best thing for you is pick up a Nvidia Shield TV Pro or an Apple TV 4k putting the audio direct on your receiver/amp and bypass video for your great Monitor/TV. Best Regards.
There’s an app TVremote which is a Roon extension that makes the Apple TV a Roon endpoint and you can control Roon in a similar way as other endpoints. Audio must be relayed from the TV to the amplifier/DAC. In my case I had to use Bluetooth to connect to my Powernode.
You could also connect a device, such as a Raspberry Pi, running Volumio to your TV via HDMI to get the “now-playing info and cover art” and to your DAC via USB and get bit-perfect audio to your HiFi system.
As well as the on-TV apps on my LG OLED, I have a dedicated media PC connected to both my TV and my amp. With this system I can use 'better' apps on my PC and with Music Bee I can use my phone as a remote and choose to play through the TV & toslink or direct to the Amp via USB while still having the PC visible on the screen. I also use my TV for movies & TV series (using Emby as Plex is a nightmare), so everything works well and is flexible.
Chinese no-name HDMI ARC to SPDIF adapter, connected to a DAC by male-male CHINCH adapter and powered by a transformer. That's the best way right now. I miss so much a hi-end transport like this, but it seems no body is interested in making it.
Conscious of your comments regarding comments and comment moderation, I found the points about the TV resampling but that the DAC didn’t display it to be telling. If we need a digital display to tell us the music is hi res or the sample rate, then surely we’re missing the point? If the music and stream sounds good, does it matter what the sample or bit rate is? It either is, or it isn’t and the presence of a digital display and number is feeding back into the loop to tell us that this is at x kHz and therefore sounds better, regardless of the actual sound output. Great video and a great screen. I’m also trying to work out where you’re located. The apps on the screen indicate Australia but not sure.
Also if you dont have HDMI arc because you have an older TV, you can purchase a HDMI splitter. You plug a fire stick into the spliter. Toslink from the spliter into your DAC, HDMI into the TV. This will pass through any or near sample rate straight to the DAC, I can get Amazons highest sample rates this way, as reported by the DAC. However this is not worth doing IMO because Amazons app on firestick is absolute arse. Set to shuffle: Still plays the same songs every time. Have a long playlist, good luck, if I purposefully scroll into the depths of my playlist it always plays the same song, in this case We Exist by Arcade Fire. I cant actually use my playlist in effect. I have to manually look up any song I want to listen to. I only did this in my quest to actually achieve amazons highest sample rates, a notoriously difficult quest due to Amazons API gatekeeping. It does sound pretty good though, a bit bright but then the splitter is not of the highest quality so yea.
I have my tv connected with my audio system with a Toslink cable, but usually only use that connection for watching movies. I have the Apple Music app installed on my tv, but I only use it occasionally when I want the lyrics of the music displayed on the tv. Mostly streaming from tv is distracting me from the music. I prefer to turn my lights down low, maybe close my eyes and just enjoy the music. A big screen projecting all this light in the room is changing the ambiance to much for me in general. Usually I stream from my iPhone through Airplay. If I want some basic information about what is playing I just have a quick look on my Apple Watch. For more detailed info I can grab my phone or iPad and find what I need. The same Watch I can also use for basic controls. Going through my library I prefer to just use my iPhone which is going there a bit easier. streaming from tv, yeah tried it, but it’s not really for me.
USB Audio Pro Player works on Android phones to preserve native high res bit rates via phone's USB interface. Their website says its possible to install on an Android TV (e.g. Sony) using their SDK.
I got GAPLESS from my TV! I have an AudioLab 6000a Play and love it. I'm running Wharfedale 4.1 Evo's with an SVS SB-1000 Pro. Anyway, from my phone, I can stream Spotify (Gapless but not lossless of course) and I stream Amazon Music through Play-Fi, and that is full 24/192 BUT it's not gapless. BUT... I have an Amazon Fire TV Cube and run the Amazon Music app and although it only outputs at 24-bit - 48kHz but somehow the Amazon Music App gives me pure gapless playback. My first test is always Dark Side of The Moon! Although my system is fairly good, I still can't really hear the difference between the 24/48 and 24/192. I do hear a bit of difference when I stream Spotify, but it's hard not to love the Spotify interface. So, I'm always moving around. But the point is, I do have clean gapless playback from my TV sent via TosLink to my Audiolab. For those rare occasions that I have a gapless album I want to hear, I'll simply run it though the TV this way and it's completely fine.
The UA-cam casting to Samsung TV is called Discovery and Launch (DIAL) protocol codeveloped by google and netflix. one can call it precursor to chromecast/google cast
i have my tv connected via optical toslink to my dac and also have a little raspberry pi with MoOde iinstalled, connected to it via usb. The sound is pretty similar between the two but I mostly listen to local FLAC files or mp3s and the pi has much more storage, so use it most of the time. I sideloaded the volumio app on my tv which still works with MoOde, both use the linux MPD service. Downside is that the remote pretty much doesn't work with the app, but i just use my phone to pick out tracks and see everything on the TV.
I really enjoy your videos John and this video pretty much sums up why I have zero interest in streaming audio as a mainstream audio source. I'm very very happy with using vinyl, it's soooooo much easier, but then I am an old schooler.
On this some amps like receivers can split the signal so run the image to a screen AND retain the sound in the amp. Alternate have a look at HDMI splitters I use one with a fire stick and a computer monitor in my bedroom - video to monitor sound via 3.5mm to an old amplifier. Some of the better splitters have optical.
Hi, you are thinking like me. Why not run the Chromecast into the amplifier and the tv is fed from the amplifier video out HDMI. The amp can directly use the audio stream. The TV just handles the video side of it. I have all my DVD players and streaming devices into the AMPLIFIER not the tv. Simple??? Yes
I think he is directing is info more so at 2 channel hifi. Yes this is easy to do a receiver but then you loose the audio quality of dedicated hifi setup…
Is that a Pixel 6...I see you are a man of taste. I'm running Klipsch The Five's and SVS 3000 micro vua my LG C9 TV via chromecast and Spotify. I'm very happy with it. Great videos, keep it up.
Love the channel. I've been binge watching your videos lately as I've begun to dip my toes into HIFI. This answers many of my questions as I've been streaming Tidal through a Chromecast Audio and also through my Sony OLED TV running a Yamaha AS500 into a set of Kef IQ5SE speakers. My OLED TV is connected through HDMI arc converter which acts as my DAC. I'm really at a loss if buying a better DAC and running optical instead would improve anything. I'm tempted more by the WIIM mini with Chord Mojo 2 route . But then feels a bit like I'm just looking for something else to get.
Use and HDMI audio extractor between your hdmi input devices and TV. No audio is resampled by Tizen anymore. Your resoltion depends on the hdmi input device and the extractor (lowest supported resolution is used). So for the Chromecast with Google TV that is 96Khz/24 max. (You can get 192Khz/24 HDMI audio extractors easily. Make sure it supports HDCP or it won't decode protected content).
Hi Don, Apple Music iPhone -> Samsung Tizen TV. Gapless & 48kHz. Apple Music app on Samsung Tizen TV. Gapless & 48kHz (can detect transition between tracks). Apple Music on Apple TV -> Samsung TV. Gapless & 48kHz. FYI. Samsung TV -> Yamaha receiver via HDMI. I find just use the Tizen (or Apple TV) Apple Music app the most straightforward way to go. To my ear, Apple Music app on TV sounds as good as CD, but not SACD. But, my ears are old. Tested using Dark Side of the Moon. Check the Apps on Samsung TV for Apple Music. Mine has Apple TV app as well.
And BTW, if you set the receiver to Dolby surround mode, you get surround sound out of Apple Music app on TV. Tested it out on Money, channels sound just like on SACD version - tills clinking from different speakers. No idea how that works.
Interesting video. I somehow feel I went the opposite route, in the sense that my main system is composed of a Pioneer Atmos receiver with just about every feature I could possibly want, including DAB+ reception (which Is pointless in my country, because there are no DAB+ radio stations) and phono preamp (even though I have no plans to get a turntable). One of the main attributes is that, besides having internal apps for some streaming services, I works as a Chromecast Audio/TIDAL Connect endpoint, and displays the TIDAL Album art in my 55" TV (plain LED technology, not QLED or OLED), but the best part is I can choose to use it with or without the TV. In other words, I can just listen to it, and have the Now playing screen just on my phone, which controls the app anyway, or have it full size. I like to have to option of having the screen or just the music. In most cases, it's the TV remote that controls both devices (via ARC). Nice to be able to just enjoy the music, for a change.
I have a Sony A80j OLED I use to stream Amazon music to a topping dac using toslink. Amazon and the TV are capable of 24/192. Google support states that Google TV is only capable of 16/48. A bit perfect Amazon music solution is to use a Fire stick into a HDMI splitter with toslink and HDMI out.
If the Android box has an extra USB C output, you can use a USB dac and no TV is needed for playback. I've tried it out on a TiVo 4k box (available in the US) I bought for $10. I just use an Android tablet or phone for casting.
Great video! Be interesting for you to get and plug an Apple TV 4K into your TV and experiment with Plex, Apple Music. Plex to my ears has gapless on Apple TV and Apple Music definitely does do. The Apple TV does up to 24/48 and reports the bitrate the music is in, like 16/44.1. Whether it resamples like the Tizen I have no idea. Just an idea for a further video. Incidentally, if you put the TV the NAD M10v2 is plugged into, you do get a great now playing screen on the HDMI ARC input.
Good topic and amazing its not discussed more. I suspect that's because the idea of a tv being part of a hifi would be seen as sacrilege. I use my LG OLED G1 to stream Tidal (TV app) into my Arcam Dac via toslink, exposure XV amp and out of my Kef R3. Its not my first choice for music experience (that's my Rega P6) but boy its pretty damn good. Also, if are using a TV app to stream then Tidal over Spotify is a no brainer - same price but CD quality and extensive videos on Tidal.
Wow, there's only 86 comments. I was scrolling through them and it felt like there were 100's! Great vid as always John and it's great to see that you're not afraid to embrace new technologies and also arguably "non-audiophile" technologies. I see it has roughed some purists feathers in the comments already. One think to note is Smart TV's have always been lacking in the processing power department. They usually only install the absolute minimum spec computing components needed to get the job done which is why smart TV UI's have always been notoriously slow. The newer ones and high end are getting better as they are having to process 4 and 8k streams so need that extra oomph to drive the picture. Obviously Audio requires less processing power but just something to consider if people are going to be using their built in TV apps a lot.
Thank you! That's what I really wanted to know. I have a Samsung 85" tv connected by HDMI ARC to a 100 watt Yamaha home theatre amp setup. The sh1tty speakers at the front have been replaced by a pair of amazing mint condition Bowers and wilkins vintage speakers. For a 78 year old git like me, it's good enough @ cd quality. 44khz is fine 😅😅😅
48kHz is the standard for audio PCM plumbing in a lot of different devices nowadays incl. smart phones, tablets, smart TVs, set top boxes, smart speakers, cars etc. This issue is quite irritating but perhaps this Samsung TV is using a good re-sampling algorithm.
hi bro, have you ever tested dac connection capabilities on the chromecast 4, on the usb otg output? I've got connected ANDROID PHONE+CHROMECAST4+HDMI EXTRACTOR+OPTICAL+OPTICAL IN on DAC.....IT GOES LIKE BUTTER. regards
Apple TV 4K HDMI to my LG TV, then Toslink from the LG TV back to my amp and everything sounds just fine @ 48khz. If I want Hi-Res I switch on the Oppo. Apple TV 4K beats all the others like Roku as far as screens and usability. Apple Music sounds just as good - and in some cases, better as Tidal and Qobuz to me. I just need to tie in a local media server.
No idea if this helps anyone but both my old Denon AVR and new Lyngdorf integrated DO report the incoming signal details over HDMI. This is how I determined my TV was also sending out 48k all the time when passing audio "through" it. It sounds fine on a day to day basis, but I did add an optical connection from my streamer (PC) direct to the amp, so I can listen to bit-perfect signal if/when I like. The video still goes to the TV; the sound is just redirected straight to the amp.
Also the Tidal app on Windows has gapless playback. PC + Tidal, video to a TV, audio to a preamp or integrated and ... done! :-) It's old fashioned, I guess, but there's nothing like a real computer.
@@DarkoAudio Hi John - I have a TDAI-1120. If you go to the web interface for it, on a computer or phone, the home page has a heading "Input audio format" that will say something like PCM 24, 96 kHz (or whatever values for the input signal). From the phone app there's a shortcut button to the home page as well. Super helpful. In the Denon IIRC it was available but buried deep in the settings menu.
Thanks for the valuable content👍 AppleTV: I have Apple TV and can only recommend it in combination with Apple Music 👍 It is streamed directly from the cloud without AirPlay detour. You don't need a smartphone or tablet, the TV screen is perfect for controlling. You can upload your own rarities, your own music that does not have a streaming service and mix it with Apple Music titles in a playlist (property of Apple Music, has nothing to do with Apple TV, but Apple TV is also very practical) Music with TV screen: That's right, I didn't think that I would always listen to music with my TV screen now, but there is nothing better. The only thing I miss is crossfade when I'm listening to a playlist
While being late to the party, I'd like to mention another setup where the TV technically isn't the streamer, only the display. The TV is being used as a display for a PC. My first attempt was underwhelming. The PC was connected to the LG TV via HDMI, and then I used the TV's optical out to feed my DAC. Unfortunately, the admittedly lousy Toslink output of the LG TV didn't go well with the DAC. It stuttered with frequent audio loss in a not quite random pattern. It was unbearable so I had to use Bluetooth, and so I did for several months. Then my newer DAC arrived, and the Toslink connection worked without stutter. But I had realised that routing the sound through the TV is less than optimal, so I began to use the DAC as a USB sound output from my PC. The sound improved, but coincidentally I found that a CD played with the same DAC sounded better than the Hi-res file from Tidal. Then I'd had enough and bought the CXN100 which is my endgame. Now I use Tidal Connect, and the PC and the TV are not involved at all. I can use it through USB with the PC's Tidal app but then the sound quality is nowhere near the phone/Tidal Connect. As a side note, I found something strange. I used the Matrix Mini-i3 Pro and set the PC setting to maximum 32 bit 384 kHz. When I played a 24 bit 44 kHz song and changed the PC's settings to 24 bit 192 kHz, I heard a slight deterioration of the SQ despite both settings exceeded the resolution of the song in question. I can't even begin to think of an explanation.
In your video you mentioned Roon can split an audio/video signal, I'd be interested in that. I have Roon sideloaded on Chromecast w/GoogleTV. My audio setup is I have a Chromecast w/Google TV connected to my McIntosh MX100 pre/pro HDMI (using its hi-res ESS Sabre DAC) then to the 7-channel amp and my 2021 Samsung QLED. How would I split the signal? If you could do a video on that here or share a link on how to do it I'd very much appreciate it since I can't seem to find out how to do it anywhere else on the web, unless I've missed something. Thanks again and keep up the great work
TVs with that don't use Google TV is the reason why I didn't go for Samsung and LG tvs. Darko should have looked at Sony / Panasonic / TLC just for their Google TV systems. Would have simplified some of his issues.
John your obsession with gapless playback is totally hilarious. I get it that for you this is a very serious and important feature. On a purely selfish level I hope you still have problems getting gapless playback for as long as you are making videos because everyone, including me, needs some hilarity in their life.
I'm listening to Genesis' the Lamb Lies Down on Broadway, using an Amazon firestick 4k plugged into a Samsung tv. Anyway, it's gapless, which is pretty important with that album.
I have been using a smart TV connected to my top shelf Marantz AVR for quite a while playing music on UA-cam in stereo. I also used a portable Toshiba hard drive connected to a blu ray player. Not wasting money on any streamer, DACs and streaming services. No way.
John I have an Apple TV so can have that as an airplay Roon endpoint. I have split the NP video screen to my Samsung using a TÜV remote app on AppleTVand the audio to my hires Roon endpoint. I’ve learnt a couple of things here. Damn downsizing from the TV over HDMI - annoying. That the NAD 10 doesn’t show the bitrate. That’s a deal breaker for me. Great video BTW
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I love how you’re willing to admit that you don’t notice a difference between streaming from the Samsung and streaming from the M10. It can be frustrating as a beginner when people talk about hearing “night and day” differences between sample rates when you’re just trying to get a handle differences between loudspeakers or amps.
THANK YOU!
Very interesting AND VERY WELL explained...
I'm a professional specialist in pedagogy and you do not hesitate, several times to repeat (appropriately) the same info in different manners in different contexts.
So, the whole explanation becomes very clear.
Bravo and thanks again!
And I'm adding this: In your attitude, I like your frankness and the fact you do not hesitate showing that you may have some doubts about this or that... 🙂
People always 100% sure and certain about everything are really "difficult to stand" !
Been waiting for this exact video for quite some time and this helps a ton, especially because I can ultimately bypass the TV digital output via roon, while still streaming high bitrate through my streamer. Best of both worlds without worrying about degradation of sq.
Apple TV and Apple Music is my go to for lossless playback and control on my TV. Very happy with the results pumping through my STRDN 1080 Sony AMP playing in direct/2 channel through my Kef Q750s. Music sounds as good as it ever has for me and I get to enjoy rich album art and album/artist info.
Thanks John, this is the one video I had been waiting for a long time.
When, at the end of your videos, you ask about whether we like your approach to XYZ, this is it. We like your approach to seriously considering Smart TVs as streamers, and your investigations.
Really interesting! Looking forward to the next installment on this topic - it's refreshing to get content about how we use these things in the real world, with TVs and streaming boxes in our living rooms as I'd imagine that most of us don't have dedicated listening environments and need to consider the usability/simplicity and practicality with other household members (wife and 2 kids in my case) whilst scratching our audiophile itches.
The NAD M10 v2 can send albums art to the TV through the hdmi port, it mirrors what’s showing on its own screen
I just looked at the price and damn. My Bluesound 2 will do just fine lol.
Can bluesound send the whats-playing art to tv? I failed to manage that.
@@stefbogdanovic You control the Bluesound with your phone or pc. It doesn't display art to the tv
This is exactly what I'm interested in. I'm thankful that someone in the community is shedding light on this topic. I'm personally ditching the surround sound system and building a HIFI "budget" system that integrates the best of 4K Reference fidelity and Audiophile capability in a 2 channel system for an apartment.
JBL 4309 Professional Studio Monitors.
MARANT Model 40N
Panasonic 9000 4K player
The 40n is the best integrated that allows me to interconnect TV, Speakers, CD Streaming and videophile capability in one seemless system. How is it that we are in 2022 and we are still have to run 2 separate systems. Living in an apartment we don't have the space for this but we have the desire to have the best money can buy.
We'll probably never reach "Audio Nirvana" and be happy with every aspect of every element comprising the total auditory experience but in the meantime I'm enjoying this ride with you and you make it so much more interesting!
Thank You! 🙏
Thank you for covering this topic. I have been using my smart TV as my streamer for over a year. The optical out goes to a Schitt Modius DAC. I use Tidal as my music service and have always wondered what the sample rate was with this setup. If mine is 48K, as yours is, I'm quite happy with that. Thanks again. and you have a new subscriber.
Latest Nvidia Shield firmware has a setting 'Match content audio resolution' which bypasses Android's 48khz resampling for HDMI output.
And my Nvidia Shield is playing gapless both in the Tidal app and from Tidal in Plex. Not sure what sampling rate you get with usb out to a proper DAC (still using HDMI to TV for picture), but Android TV OS is probably still the bottleneck for Hi-Res…
Nice. I was curious if it would resample
the usb output to a dac. I haven't played with usb dacs on the shield enough to say right now.
I use NVIDIA Shield 2019 as streamer, routing sound vía USB to a DragonFly Cobalt, and then to a Marantz PM7003. Máster files are shown as Máster.
Interesting. I was looking into the shield recently and some people were saying updates killed plex functionality... and I couldn't get a clear answer on sound quality...
@@nefossum I think its a Tizen Plex thing. The Apple TV 4K Plex app plays gapless as well.
This is the video that I've been waiting for. Thank you, John. I'm using the TV for streaming now with no external DAC (just the TV analogue output) into a tube amp. It's not ideal at all. There's room to improve!
Great video. We missed you in Chicago. I kept it super simple: I have a fan less PC (like a Nuc) running Audirvana out to Schiit Bi-Frost ect. I only use the TV as a display. That way I get my bit perfect play back and all my album art ect.
Another nice and informative video🙂 I much prefer this kind of content to product reviews since I'm more into the technology than knowing how one speaker or piece of electronics performs differently than another.
Just bought a new Sony TV. Google/ Android TV OS. Installed the Amazon Music app. Plugged a USB cable into the TV (socket purpose is for USB drive or Hard Drive, with media files). Plugged the other end of USB cable into my Topping DAC. Now have full Ultra HD audio bit rate, into DAC without the limitations of toslink or jittery HDMI. No special settings. Only downside is the DAC has to be switched off (not in standby) for the TV speakers to switch back on.
So through USB the audio from TV Streaming apps is not resampled to 48k?
Awesome!! Glad this video is finally out. Been looking for something similar for a while now. Thank you :)
As always, John, you come up with something I haven't thought before. Thank you for that.
I know I’m late the party on this video, but damn I learned a lot. Even after 2yrs from publication. Thank you, John!😊
Hey John, another well researched, extremely detailed (“No’darf mate!”) video that, yet again, has got me thinking - as been thinking about upgrading our VERY outdated, but adequate, TV for quite some time to a Smart TV; principally to get rid of the slightly ridiculous collection of different ‘set top boxes’ I’ve gathered over the years (inc. Roku and an old 2nd or 3rd gen. Apple TV).
For me the idea of a large ‘now playing’ display is nice, but not the main purpose for our usage, though it definitely has quite a bit of appeal. Just FYI, seen as you haven’t tried an Apple TV, one even better use I could see for it in this kind of situation is the ability to do “Screen Mirroring” generally, for pretty much every app on iOS devices, and that would take the experience to the next level with Roon.
Screen mirroring my iPad while using the Roon app to choose my music, goes beyond just showing the ‘now playing’ info and artwork; it means your whole music exploration experience can be displayed on the big screen, along with the artist bio’s, album info/reviews, lyrics, credits/related artists - the whole shabang! In fact this way, you won’t even have to compromise on playback quality/downsampling, or gap-less playback, or even the cabling or audio stream routing; Roon would take care of the streaming quality and endpoint destination of choice, in fact … come to think of it you don’t even need a Smart TV! Any TV with an HDMI socket to connect the Apple TV, and your household wifi takes care of both your iOS device and the Apple TV connection and the mirroring between them.
Shame Apple TV’s are so limited for TV streaming variety though, so I still need a Smart TV for other reasons. Anyway, not sure if this helps? 👍
Great content as always. Loving the recent insertion of hip-hop for the album art on the now playing screens in the video.
Dang’ i was just planning on fiddling on my tv to stream as source for my system and here i step on Darko discussing the exact thing just now😂
I just got an Apple TV box to plug into my 7.2.6 system to hear the flood of recordings that are coming out in spatial. As expected, the classical & jazz effect is mostly ambiance, but a nice addition. Some pop stuff like Lord's Royals uses the surround speakers occasionally for backing vocals. Then there's the raucous party music that has instruments coming from all over the place. Beforehand, I thought that was a silly use of Atmos, but upon hearing it, it's just a lot of fun. It sucks though that Apple Music won't pass the Atmos signal when the app is played on Google TV or Fire TV dongles. Having the lyrics scroll by on the Apple TV box is a nice addition though.
What brand is your 7.2.6 amp Bob?
Edit: And I'd be interested to know what "party music" you listen to that utilises the surround abilities if that's not too much trouble. Cheers :)
Wet leg love thier tiny desk concert and thier album! They are really refreshing!
It may be that more than sample rate is effected by routing sound through the TV. I notice there is a significant difference in the sound of music being passed from my TV HDMI to AVR depending of whether it is sent as PCM or auto ( DD) . ( TCL TV, Onkyo AVR.) If auto is selected for sound over HDMI then the TV sends Dolby digital audio to the AVR. If PCM or passthrough is selected then PCM is sent to the AVR. Usually Auto (DD) sounds better for TV and PCM better for music. Also it is worth mentioning there is a good app called equalizer + for android TV/devices that allows easy equalizer adjustments for sounds being sent through the TV.
This is so interesting you've been on this path of finding 'something to look at' with streaming audio, because I have lately as well. I ended up hacking my amazon fire tablet so the screen stays on all the time (when I want it to), and the case it is in folds out to keep it standing upright on it's own...works pretty well!
Hi John, excellent video. You have to take advantage of what you have at home. I particularly use the Xiaomi Box S as a streamer. I use the USB output it has, it enters my DAC and from my DAC to my vintage Scott amplifier from 1978. I have done tests and it really is high resolution with the native Tidal and Qobuz applications, reaching up to 24 / 192. Now If the streaming is through Google cast, it is 24/96, which is the maximum that this protocol supports. It would be good if you did that test on your channel. Greetings from Santa Fe, Argentina
I have a B&O Beovision 8-40 TV and have a Chromecast dongle plugged into it. Straddling that, Dali Zensor 3 speakers, that run into an Onkyo A 9050 amp. I do have the TV hooked up to the Amp, but the speaker bar in the telly is that good I often just listen through that when watching stuff. Hooked into the amp is a Raumfeld connector that has built in Chromecast/Tidal etc. Around the house I have google nest speakers. Honestly, it all sounds absolutely fantastic. I just created a group for the TV and all speakers in the google home app, and off I go! The speaker bar in that TV is incredible and acts as a central stage, supplemented by the hifi speakers,, then piped to the various nest speakers. Honestly, once the levels are all set up properly, it sounds like im in a club i love it! The Raumfeld streamer box thing plays high res audio, but tbh Spotify on high quality setting sounds as good as my CD's on this set up. I really hear no difference. It's actually why i am super intrigued about this channel and "higher end" stuff in general. I really dont know what im missing!?! It might be night and day different, but this kit hardly cost much at all and sounds top :) Oh and I can also wi-fi connect my NAS drive to the raumfeld thing, so its all networked via the app and can play natively through the TV back through the Chromecast dongle. Simple!
Brilliant solution for a single point source. I wish there was a way to breach into a full house party mode with multiple "now playing" screens and decent stereo noises!
This was the most practical video I've seen in a while. Had some issues recently where my Roon setup wasn't seeing any audio outputs and it was a pain to resolve. My next step will be to try your suggestions for a now playing screen on my TV. It's an older Samsung though so I'm sure it doesn't have all the capabilities of yours so I'll probably have to use an external device.
I stream via my LG C1 all the time, for family room casual listening.
Never for my own actual music listening sessions though.
That almost always involves headphones, a DAC/Amp and either the Sony WM1A or my iPhone 13 Pro Max.
Your recent evaluation of a smart TV as part of your setup has made me wonder though, perhaps it’s time to repurpose the Sonos system in the family room and get the NAD or Naim Uniti and a decent set of speakers.
I use Qobuz and Apple Lossless BTW
Cheers John
Great stuff John. A very practical and useful video, not easy in this space.
My TV setup is Apple Music on Apple TV > airplay to HomePod as center speaker + 2 x ikea picture frame speakers (stereo pair) on the sides. It supports wireless 24/48 lossless via airplay 2 and sounds surprisingly good👌🏼
Great video, answers a question I've always wondered about!
I love your choice of overlay music in your videos. They tend to be me ringtones. Like Apparent Solution and Digital Breath in this one.
My Samsung smart TV was my first streamer, only recently I added a Chromecast audio to my hifi! Also allways used my hifi to hear to TV sound!
Also have a hard disc with music and movies connected to the TV. Before that had an WD TV media player in both alone and wifi versions!
That's why you need to insert a laptop (or a small box PC) with windows in your system , and bypass all the google&android&samsung apps ... long live foobar 2000
My solution for years: laptop>dac>3.5 to rca>amp. Laptop to tv via hdmi. Also you can do tv audio out 3.5 to rca to amp, but no reason unless you want to control tv apps with the tv remote and get lower quality sound. TVs also have audio controls to interface with amps, so you may find help there - though it's always a pain.
One thing that plex refuses to do is to let the app on your phone or tablet work like roon does, i.e., work as a remote and now playing interface. It's been requested by thousands of people for years, but they refuse. One more thing, if the plex music app is your thing, my set-up allows you to use it.
Gapless playback via Chromecast IS AVAILABLE if you use the 'Hi-Fi Cast' music app for Android phones.
I stream flac files from my PC's hard disk, to my phone and then to my Chromecast Audio.
I have a dell tower running tidal through audirvana. I’ve got it connected to tv with hdmi video and audio to a project dac. Browsing is done onscreen via wireless mouse and keyboard. Audirvana allows large display of artwork on tv.
For casual listening I sometimes use the Apple TV hooked up to my TV and eARC to my NAD M10 (v1) and it works great. Being able to use Tidal om my NAD, iPhone, laptop and TV is really nice.
Hi John,
Thanks for your contents always well filmed and detailed.
Just tried today and I can confirm you that Plex on an Apple TV is actually gapless. (on concert album).
This allows me to have lossless gapless music on my TV through my Denon receiver
Have a nice day and continue your good job
John - so funny you should do this video today. I faced the same issue but wasn’t willing to forego lossless. For my solution within my newly set-up Roon environment was to pick up a sub-$100 Mac mini (2014 i5 4gb) and use Roon bridge. It’s a clean OS install with Roon bridge and an open safari tab. I get lossless through my Denon AVR3700 and a Roon display through Safari. Highly recommended.
There is a huge diference between eARC and regular ARC HDMI. Atmos only on eARC. The best thing for you is pick up a Nvidia Shield TV Pro or an Apple TV 4k putting the audio direct on your receiver/amp and bypass video for your great Monitor/TV.
Best Regards.
PlayStation using Spotify out to a home theatre receiver. Sounds great looks very smart with art work and is easier to drive than a clumsy TV remote.
There’s an app TVremote which is a Roon extension that makes the Apple TV a Roon endpoint and you can control Roon in a similar way as other endpoints. Audio must be relayed from the TV to the amplifier/DAC. In my case I had to use Bluetooth to connect to my Powernode.
I use it all the time and its absolutely perfect! My Chord DAC shows hi-res resolutions connected to the Bluesound Node HDMI Arc. Works well for me!
Yup great app!!!
You could also connect a device, such as a Raspberry Pi, running Volumio to your TV via HDMI to get the “now-playing info and cover art” and to your DAC via USB and get bit-perfect audio to your HiFi system.
Interesting concept
As well as the on-TV apps on my LG OLED, I have a dedicated media PC connected to both my TV and my amp. With this system I can use 'better' apps on my PC and with Music Bee I can use my phone as a remote and choose to play through the TV & toslink or direct to the Amp via USB while still having the PC visible on the screen. I also use my TV for movies & TV series (using Emby as Plex is a nightmare), so everything works well and is flexible.
Chinese no-name HDMI ARC to SPDIF adapter, connected to a DAC by male-male CHINCH adapter and powered by a transformer. That's the best way right now. I miss so much a hi-end transport like this, but it seems no body is interested in making it.
Conscious of your comments regarding comments and comment moderation, I found the points about the TV resampling but that the DAC didn’t display it to be telling. If we need a digital display to tell us the music is hi res or the sample rate, then surely we’re missing the point? If the music and stream sounds good, does it matter what the sample or bit rate is? It either is, or it isn’t and the presence of a digital display and number is feeding back into the loop to tell us that this is at x kHz and therefore sounds better, regardless of the actual sound output. Great video and a great screen. I’m also trying to work out where you’re located. The apps on the screen indicate Australia but not sure.
Also if you dont have HDMI arc because you have an older TV, you can purchase a HDMI splitter. You plug a fire stick into the spliter. Toslink from the spliter into your DAC, HDMI into the TV. This will pass through any or near sample rate straight to the DAC, I can get Amazons highest sample rates this way, as reported by the DAC. However this is not worth doing IMO because Amazons app on firestick is absolute arse. Set to shuffle: Still plays the same songs every time. Have a long playlist, good luck, if I purposefully scroll into the depths of my playlist it always plays the same song, in this case We Exist by Arcade Fire. I cant actually use my playlist in effect. I have to manually look up any song I want to listen to. I only did this in my quest to actually achieve amazons highest sample rates, a notoriously difficult quest due to Amazons API gatekeeping. It does sound pretty good though, a bit bright but then the splitter is not of the highest quality so yea.
I have my tv connected with my audio system with a Toslink cable, but usually only use that connection for watching movies. I have the Apple Music app installed on my tv, but I only use it occasionally when I want the lyrics of the music displayed on the tv. Mostly streaming from tv is distracting me from the music. I prefer to turn my lights down low, maybe close my eyes and just enjoy the music. A big screen projecting all this light in the room is changing the ambiance to much for me in general. Usually I stream from my iPhone through Airplay. If I want some basic information about what is playing I just have a quick look on my Apple Watch. For more detailed info I can grab my phone or iPad and find what I need. The same Watch I can also use for basic controls. Going through my library I prefer to just use my iPhone which is going there a bit easier. streaming from tv, yeah tried it, but it’s not really for me.
USB Audio Pro Player works on Android phones to preserve native high res bit rates via phone's USB interface. Their website says its possible to install on an Android TV (e.g. Sony) using their SDK.
I got GAPLESS from my TV! I have an AudioLab 6000a Play and love it. I'm running Wharfedale 4.1 Evo's with an SVS SB-1000 Pro. Anyway, from my phone, I can stream Spotify (Gapless but not lossless of course) and I stream Amazon Music through Play-Fi, and that is full 24/192 BUT it's not gapless. BUT... I have an Amazon Fire TV Cube and run the Amazon Music app and although it only outputs at 24-bit - 48kHz but somehow the Amazon Music App gives me pure gapless playback. My first test is always Dark Side of The Moon! Although my system is fairly good, I still can't really hear the difference between the 24/48 and 24/192. I do hear a bit of difference when I stream Spotify, but it's hard not to love the Spotify interface. So, I'm always moving around. But the point is, I do have clean gapless playback from my TV sent via TosLink to my Audiolab. For those rare occasions that I have a gapless album I want to hear, I'll simply run it though the TV this way and it's completely fine.
Arc is compressed audio format. eArc is non compressed audio. Try to see if you have one on your TV.
The UA-cam casting to Samsung TV is called Discovery and Launch (DIAL) protocol codeveloped by google and netflix. one can call it precursor to chromecast/google cast
Not my go to but it is an option in my living room. Also use Apple TV in there as well. Mostly the kids listening. It’s works great for them.
i have my tv connected via optical toslink to my dac and also have a little raspberry pi with MoOde iinstalled, connected to it via usb. The sound is pretty similar between the two but I mostly listen to local FLAC files or mp3s and the pi has much more storage, so use it most of the time. I sideloaded the volumio app on my tv which still works with MoOde, both use the linux MPD service. Downside is that the remote pretty much doesn't work with the app, but i just use my phone to pick out tracks and see everything on the TV.
I really enjoy your videos John and this video pretty much sums up why I have zero interest in streaming audio as a mainstream audio source. I'm very very happy with using vinyl, it's soooooo much easier, but then I am an old schooler.
On this some amps like receivers can split the signal so run the image to a screen AND retain the sound in the amp. Alternate have a look at HDMI splitters I use one with a fire stick and a computer monitor in my bedroom - video to monitor sound via 3.5mm to an old amplifier. Some of the better splitters have optical.
Hi, you are thinking like me. Why not run the Chromecast into the amplifier and the tv is fed from the amplifier video out HDMI. The amp can directly use the audio stream. The TV just handles the video side of it. I have all my DVD players and streaming devices into the AMPLIFIER not the tv. Simple??? Yes
I think he is directing is info more so at 2 channel hifi. Yes this is easy to do a receiver but then you loose the audio quality of dedicated hifi setup…
TV + piCoreplayer + usb dac = gapless bit perfect
AppleTV works and sounds nice👍🏽
Is that a Pixel 6...I see you are a man of taste.
I'm running Klipsch The Five's and SVS 3000 micro vua my LG C9 TV via chromecast and Spotify. I'm very happy with it. Great videos, keep it up.
I remember when iTunes first came out with gapless playback. It was so awesome!
My current setup is just an Apple TV 4K with the TIDAL app (it’s gapless on tvOS) connected to a Dragonfly Red which is wired into my speakers.
Love the channel. I've been binge watching your videos lately as I've begun to dip my toes into HIFI. This answers many of my questions as I've been streaming Tidal through a Chromecast Audio and also through my Sony OLED TV running a Yamaha AS500 into a set of Kef IQ5SE speakers. My OLED TV is connected through HDMI arc converter which acts as my DAC. I'm really at a loss if buying a better DAC and running optical instead would improve anything. I'm tempted more by the WIIM mini with Chord Mojo 2 route . But then feels a bit like I'm just looking for something else to get.
Use and HDMI audio extractor between your hdmi input devices and TV. No audio is resampled by Tizen anymore. Your resoltion depends on the hdmi input device and the extractor (lowest supported resolution is used). So for the Chromecast with Google TV that is 96Khz/24 max. (You can get 192Khz/24 HDMI audio extractors easily. Make sure it supports HDCP or it won't decode protected content).
Thank you
More please
I use a Mac mini with a DAC and a receiver to connect a tv. This way Apple Music gives me HiRez up to 192 or with my AV receivers Dolby Atmos.
how to you connect the dac to your receiver and get hirez 192 ?
Hi Don,
Apple Music iPhone -> Samsung Tizen TV. Gapless & 48kHz.
Apple Music app on Samsung Tizen TV. Gapless & 48kHz (can detect transition between tracks).
Apple Music on Apple TV -> Samsung TV. Gapless & 48kHz.
FYI. Samsung TV -> Yamaha receiver via HDMI.
I find just use the Tizen (or Apple TV) Apple Music app the most straightforward way to go.
To my ear, Apple Music app on TV sounds as good as CD, but not SACD. But, my ears are old. Tested using Dark Side of the Moon.
Check the Apps on Samsung TV for Apple Music. Mine has Apple TV app as well.
And BTW, if you set the receiver to Dolby surround mode, you get surround sound out of Apple Music app on TV. Tested it out on Money, channels sound just like on SACD version - tills clinking from different speakers. No idea how that works.
Interesting video. I somehow feel I went the opposite route, in the sense that my main system is composed of a Pioneer Atmos receiver with just about every feature I could possibly want, including DAB+ reception (which Is pointless in my country, because there are no DAB+ radio stations) and phono preamp (even though I have no plans to get a turntable). One of the main attributes is that, besides having internal apps for some streaming services, I works as a Chromecast Audio/TIDAL Connect endpoint, and displays the TIDAL Album art in my 55" TV (plain LED technology, not QLED or OLED), but the best part is I can choose to use it with or without the TV. In other words, I can just listen to it, and have the Now playing screen just on my phone, which controls the app anyway, or have it full size. I like to have to option of having the screen or just the music. In most cases, it's the TV remote that controls both devices (via ARC). Nice to be able to just enjoy the music, for a change.
I have a Sony A80j OLED I use to stream Amazon music to a topping dac using toslink. Amazon and the TV are capable of 24/192. Google support states that Google TV is only capable of 16/48. A bit perfect Amazon music solution is to use a Fire stick into a HDMI splitter with toslink and HDMI out.
If the Android box has an extra USB C output, you can use a USB dac and no TV is needed for playback. I've tried it out on a TiVo 4k box (available in the US) I bought for $10. I just use an Android tablet or phone for casting.
Great video! Be interesting for you to get and plug an Apple TV 4K into your TV and experiment with Plex, Apple Music. Plex to my ears has gapless on Apple TV and Apple Music definitely does do. The Apple TV does up to 24/48 and reports the bitrate the music is in, like 16/44.1. Whether it resamples like the Tizen I have no idea. Just an idea for a further video.
Incidentally, if you put the TV the NAD M10v2 is plugged into, you do get a great now playing screen on the HDMI ARC input.
More great content.
As an Apple user I’d be interested in this topic applied to Apple TV, specifically it’s output quality
apple tv makes a perfect gapless streamer at cd lossless w/o having to stream music through your phone/ipad...
Long ago I’m streaming Tidal, Sirius XM via my shield connected to TV, to be able to look at the screen from time to time while working :)
Good topic and amazing its not discussed more. I suspect that's because the idea of a tv being part of a hifi would be seen as sacrilege. I use my LG OLED G1 to stream Tidal (TV app) into my Arcam Dac via toslink, exposure XV amp and out of my Kef R3. Its not my first choice for music experience (that's my Rega P6) but boy its pretty damn good. Also, if are using a TV app to stream then Tidal over Spotify is a no brainer - same price but CD quality and extensive videos on Tidal.
Wow, there's only 86 comments. I was scrolling through them and it felt like there were 100's!
Great vid as always John and it's great to see that you're not afraid to embrace new technologies and also arguably "non-audiophile" technologies. I see it has roughed some purists feathers in the comments already.
One think to note is Smart TV's have always been lacking in the processing power department. They usually only install the absolute minimum spec computing components needed to get the job done which is why smart TV UI's have always been notoriously slow. The newer ones and high end are getting better as they are having to process 4 and 8k streams so need that extra oomph to drive the picture. Obviously Audio requires less processing power but just something to consider if people are going to be using their built in TV apps a lot.
Thank you! That's what I really wanted to know. I have a Samsung 85" tv connected by HDMI ARC to a 100 watt Yamaha home theatre amp setup. The sh1tty speakers at the front have been replaced by a pair of amazing mint condition Bowers and wilkins vintage speakers.
For a 78 year old git like me, it's good enough @ cd quality. 44khz is fine 😅😅😅
48kHz is the standard for audio PCM plumbing in a lot of different devices nowadays incl. smart phones, tablets, smart TVs, set top boxes, smart speakers, cars etc. This issue is quite irritating but perhaps this Samsung TV is using a good re-sampling algorithm.
hi bro, have you ever tested dac connection capabilities on the chromecast 4, on the usb otg output? I've got connected ANDROID PHONE+CHROMECAST4+HDMI EXTRACTOR+OPTICAL+OPTICAL IN on DAC.....IT GOES LIKE BUTTER. regards
Apple TV 4K HDMI to my LG TV, then Toslink from the LG TV back to my amp and everything sounds just fine @ 48khz. If I want Hi-Res I switch on the Oppo. Apple TV 4K beats all the others like Roku as far as screens and usability. Apple Music sounds just as good - and in some cases, better as Tidal and Qobuz to me. I just need to tie in a local media server.
As well as gapless Plex
So why did we dismiss using the toslink output from the tv to a dac? It is also 48 kHz isnt it, as is the hdmi arc output?
I use the Toslink output of my Sony tv to my amplifier Toslink input. It works perfectly but i don't know if it's 44, 48, 96 or 192...
No idea if this helps anyone but both my old Denon AVR and new Lyngdorf integrated DO report the incoming signal details over HDMI. This is how I determined my TV was also sending out 48k all the time when passing audio "through" it. It sounds fine on a day to day basis, but I did add an optical connection from my streamer (PC) direct to the amp, so I can listen to bit-perfect signal if/when I like. The video still goes to the TV; the sound is just redirected straight to the amp.
Also the Tidal app on Windows has gapless playback. PC + Tidal, video to a TV, audio to a preamp or integrated and ... done! :-) It's old fashioned, I guess, but there's nothing like a real computer.
Hey Merrill. Which Lyngdorf reports on incoming HDMI sample rate and where?
@@DarkoAudio Hi John - I have a TDAI-1120. If you go to the web interface for it, on a computer or phone, the home page has a heading "Input audio format" that will say something like PCM 24, 96 kHz (or whatever values for the input signal). From the phone app there's a shortcut button to the home page as well. Super helpful.
In the Denon IIRC it was available but buried deep in the settings menu.
@@DarkoAudio Also I should say I really appreciated your review of the 1120 and it factored highly in my purchase 👍. Rock on, my friend.
Looking forward to your in depth Apple TV video.
Thanks for the valuable content👍
AppleTV:
I have Apple TV and can only recommend it in combination with Apple Music 👍
It is streamed directly from the cloud without AirPlay detour.
You don't need a smartphone or tablet, the TV screen is perfect for controlling.
You can upload your own rarities, your own music that does not have a streaming service and mix it with Apple Music titles in a playlist (property of Apple Music, has nothing to do with Apple TV, but Apple TV is also very practical)
Music with TV screen:
That's right, I didn't think that I would always listen to music with my TV screen now, but there is nothing better.
The only thing I miss is crossfade when I'm listening to a playlist
While being late to the party, I'd like to mention another setup where the TV technically isn't the streamer, only the display.
The TV is being used as a display for a PC.
My first attempt was underwhelming. The PC was connected to the LG TV via HDMI, and then I used the TV's optical out to feed my DAC.
Unfortunately, the admittedly lousy Toslink output of the LG TV didn't go well with the DAC. It stuttered with frequent audio loss in a not quite random pattern. It was unbearable so I had to use Bluetooth, and so I did for several months.
Then my newer DAC arrived, and the Toslink connection worked without stutter.
But I had realised that routing the sound through the TV is less than optimal, so I began to use the DAC as a USB sound output from my PC. The sound improved, but coincidentally I found that a CD played with the same DAC sounded better than the Hi-res file from Tidal.
Then I'd had enough and bought the CXN100 which is my endgame. Now I use Tidal Connect, and the PC and the TV are not involved at all.
I can use it through USB with the PC's Tidal app but then the sound quality is nowhere near the phone/Tidal Connect.
As a side note, I found something strange. I used the Matrix Mini-i3 Pro and set the PC setting to maximum 32 bit 384 kHz.
When I played a 24 bit 44 kHz song and changed the PC's settings to 24 bit 192 kHz, I heard a slight deterioration of the SQ despite both settings exceeded the resolution of the song in question. I can't even begin to think of an explanation.
In your video you mentioned Roon can split an audio/video signal, I'd be interested in that. I have Roon sideloaded on Chromecast w/GoogleTV. My audio setup is I have a Chromecast w/Google TV connected to my McIntosh MX100 pre/pro HDMI (using its hi-res ESS Sabre DAC) then to the 7-channel amp and my 2021 Samsung QLED. How would I split the signal? If you could do a video on that here or share a link on how to do it I'd very much appreciate it since I can't seem to find out how to do it anywhere else on the web, unless I've missed something. Thanks again and keep up the great work
OR you could get a nice mid level Denon receiver with Heos and connect to TV via HDMI. Maybe not as rich as Roon but has plenty of stuff to look at :)
Extra Props for the Biggie Album!!
The easiest solution for me is just using my laptop as a controller for my Bluesound Node, my laptop is big enough for a now playing screen.
I was waiting for gapless comment on seeing your vid and title. I agree with you gapless is best.
TVs with that don't use Google TV is the reason why I didn't go for Samsung and LG tvs. Darko should have looked at Sony / Panasonic / TLC just for their Google TV systems. Would have simplified some of his issues.
John your obsession with gapless playback is totally hilarious. I get it that for you this is a very serious and important feature. On a purely selfish level I hope you still have problems getting gapless playback for as long as you are making videos because everyone, including me, needs some hilarity in their life.
If your new TV has earc-not arc then you should get full fat hi-res!
I’m running Plex on a Apple TV 4K and it has gapless play. Yes even Speedy J - GSpot 😆
I'm listening to Genesis' the Lamb Lies Down on Broadway, using an Amazon firestick 4k plugged into a Samsung tv. Anyway, it's gapless, which is pretty important with that album.
I have been using a smart TV connected to my top shelf Marantz AVR for quite a while playing music on UA-cam in stereo. I also used a portable Toshiba hard drive connected to a blu ray player. Not wasting money on any streamer, DACs and streaming services. No way.
John I have an Apple TV so can have that as an airplay Roon endpoint. I have split the NP video screen to my Samsung using a TÜV remote app on AppleTVand the audio to my hires Roon endpoint. I’ve learnt a couple of things here. Damn downsizing from the TV over HDMI - annoying. That the NAD 10 doesn’t show the bitrate. That’s a deal breaker for me. Great video BTW