Better Than Glue Stick - Nano Polymer Adhesive.
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- Опубліковано 12 лип 2024
- Do you use glue stick when you 3D print? In this video we discuss why PVA glue stick may or may not be the best interface layer for bed adhesion and protection. We also share our success using @VisionMiner Nano Polymer Adhesive to hold down filaments like polycarbonate, nylon and carbon fiber filled PLAs.
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Vision Miner Nano Polymer Adhesive (10ml) - $4.50
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Amazon Basics Purple Glue Stick (30 pack) - $8.88
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#3DPrinting #3dprinter #makersgonnamake - Наука та технологія
Glue stick is super cheap, easy to use, available everywhere, and works.
Absolutely!
and absolutely unnecessary and messy for no reason, manufacturers better fix their beds, many brands never require it.
@@tvojejbabkydedko I don't find it messy at all. A little goes a long way and last for many prints. I will definitely glue stick on big prints for the extra bit of insurance.
This problem and discussion demonstrates the quintessential reason why there are dichotomies in the 3DP community. Since no two printers are identical and no processes work for EVERY printer, substitutions and work arounds exist to enable people to print successfully. But often times, people lack knowledge, expertise, or free capital to print the way things were meant to be printed. What model designer designs their models specifically for printing onto glue stick? What maker has unlimited funds, time, and knowledge to actually FIX their printer's actual issues? It's all relative and people will stand on business arguing about their subject knowledge of success instead of discussing the situation, root causes, and permanent solutions?
@@RonZaworaCGS When it comes to bed adhesion we are discussing preferences and sharing experiences. All FDM printers these days are quite similar. Heated build plates, consistent extrusion temps, and speeds. Success has more to with print settings and that first layer. In the end whatever gets you a successful print in the manner you like is the right solution. Perhaps a dichotomy between vendor brand support, otherwise my experience has been a collaborative sharing community.
I occasionally use 3dlac if printing very small parts and that’s it. Helping hands make light of certain tasks and success is always the best result.
Awesome!
I switched to a water soluble hair spray the other week back and sprayed where the prints were going. Has not failed yet, and cooled removal is a game changer. Really enjoyed the video, though, and great content on your channel. Stay authentic.
Oh! What brand?! I think a lot of people reading the comments would love to know. And thank you!
@LoyalMoses I'm out in Thailand so it's a really random one from a 7/11 store which cracks me up. The company is lifeford (sounds dodgy right) SalonArtist power extreme spray. I think it's made here - may do some digging. 72hr hold. I haven't checked with exotics yet, but will run some experiments in coming weeks.
I'm using
l'oreal elnett extra strong hold hairspray
It's working really good, testet with PLA and TPU
Awesome! Thank you!!!
Thanks for sharing too
just wanna say thank you for being 1 of the good channel owners!!!!!! by that i mean u talk to your viewers. ty 4 taking ur time to responding 2 us!
Thank you! That means a lot!
@@LoyalMoses i mean some do respond. i understad those who dont its alot of work.
I just want to thank you for the tip that your probably didn't even mean to focus on. I have a Dremel printer with a glass build plate and it has been very hard to remove the prints until, you said glue stick is a release when it gets cold, so now I put the finished print in the freezer on the build plat for 10 - 15 minutes and it comes off with ease. Share this with others. Thanks again.
You are so welcome! What you discovered is actually very common in the industry. Many have found prints stuck with nowhere else to go and the answer has definitely been to put it in the freezer. Also, some turn an air can upside down and blast it with a bit of cold to get it to pop off.
Aquanet hair spray is my go too on all pla, pla - carbon fiber, petg , tpu and asa, water wash since 2017. glue stick on abs, nylon, pain on cleaning, got multiple build plates on each machine - 1 glue, 1 spray. never tried it - vision miner. Anet (2 of em) 8, Ender 3, Twotree blu3 and blu5, Sunlu, Kingroon Kp5, Anycubic Max and NEO, tronxy X5SA, Tevo, XYZ Davinci and a few others
Awesome!
Never needed a glue stick until I did lol. Seriously, I don't like using a bed adhesive (mostly because it's the last thing I try after everything else and I never learn) but there are cases where it is necessary, just another variable to consider in a hobby with a billion variables.
So true!
Big big big believer in glue stick. Elmer's purple glue has become a staple of my printing toolkit
It’s really good stuff!
I found my four year old ender 3 printer that I haven't printed with in about 3 years. After the first print I found that nothing can be printed on this printer because the printout never sticks to the bed. So I calibrated the printer for about 5 hours but still no result. So I started searching youtube for a solution and everyone said I needed glue so I bought 3DLAC and right after applying glue even without calibration it prints like new.
That's awesome to hear! I am glad you got the prints to stick!
Washing the plate with dawn soap helps
I've always used hairspray (Vivelle Dop Extreme). It doesn't cost anything, about €4 for 250ml, you can clean the plate with hot water, and one bottle lasts me almost 1 year.
Awesome
Vision Miner is how much per ounce? Glue sticks work just fine and they are cheap. I do prefer Aquanet hair spray though.
Especially if you buy them by the case!!!
I print ABS, ASA, Nylons, PETG, PLA, etc. and I've never used an adhesive. The only bed adhesion issues I've had so far is with long, thin PLA prints and I've always resolved it with design, slower speeds, or mouse ears on the worst offenders. I've got a drawer full of glue sticks from all my printers because I've never wanted to deal with the cleanup but this Nano stuff seems worth having in the tool kit. I'll order some up to play with.
Give it a shot!
I use glue sticks...Elmers purple. You may think it's more expensive, however if you just bulk buy it after the back to school sales you can get them for less than 40 cents a tube
They work great!
Really like how you showed the application of this product, it ensures a true even layer of adhesive versus a glue stick. Maybe I'll win some so I can try it, and persuade myself to switch from hair spray....
Hair spray works!
I haven't yet needed it but I'm hoping this is the solution to my repetitive prints for the toy drive come Christmas
Heck yes!!!
I have reduced the amount bed adhesive materials (glue stick) I use. I hope to send my scrape to a recycler and they will not accept scrap with adhesive materials on them.
However I have found the purple Elmer's glue stick works well and washes off fairly easily. It turns purple again when hit with water so it is easy to tell if you missed getting some off.
Awesome!
For PETG and ABS I'm using Dimafix, a bit expensive but last a long time, sticks very well and releases when cool.
Awesome!
It sounds like it comes down to how many and how often you print. I use glue sticks with mostly no problems as long as I remember to replace it after 3-4 prints. I switched to a textured PEI bed and haven't used glue sense until I got my new printer. It's a smooth PEI bed and says on the bed to apply glue. I've tried without glue and had mostly success but success every time with glue. If this can last as long as they say it would save time and money.
I'll still use both of course, glue sticks on some machines just work great and are quick, but for nice prints, I like the nano polymer adhesive.
TL/DR: Getting *any specialized* glue for 3D printing - *in addition* to glue stick - is in my opinion the most important add-on for success you can "just buy" - and not having to dive into another rabbit hole for a change.
(Of course knowing when to use what and when not to use glue stick it is important too though)
Initially I never used any adhesive for PLA prints on a smooth PEI plate.
(For that combo still no adhesive is needed if the surface is clean and the model big imo)
The turning point happened when I tried PLA on a textured powder coated plate.
Even with perfect Z-offset and a freshly washed plate with high quality dish soap, the models with smaller footprints came loose.
I remembered my printer came with a PVA gluestick and I tried it out.
Funnily not only did the small prints came loose, now also some medium prints failed X-D
And there it finally clicked for me what PVA glue stick is not necessarily always for "prints sticking better".
Rather that you have an interface layer to help remove the prints easier (ok, I admittedly used YT to get that information :)
After that it dawned on me that I have just been using the wrong adhesive for the wrong material and for the wrong utilization.
Then I tried one adhesive specialized for 3D printing (not Nano Polymer though) and - oh boy - what a night and day difference.
Now I use specialized glue for almost every print and even dare do stick-like prints vertically without brims.
Quick tips: once the glue is used up from multiple times printing on the same spot, you can use water or propyl alcohol on a (preferably microfiber) cloth to "smear" glue from the unused spots over to the used ones.
I would also protect a plate from dust with glue applied on it!
Either covering it with a foil, storing it vertically or simplest - just flipping it over on the printer when cold (provided your glue is not "staining" and stays on the plate).
This was a great read! Thank you for sharing!
The purists can kiss my HEY THIS IS A FAMILY SHOW! My printers are in my bedroom and as a cardiology patient heat really messes with me. So I don’t always have the ideal temps. I used a glue stick yesterday for the first time with my mini. I would have used the vision miner but the bottle I won from you just shipped today. 😭 Thanks to you and Mrs LM - T4L_CZR
Hehe! Congrats on your win!
I really like the "home made" version, Goo By Frank. Can get a kit from DFH and it makes a whole liter of bed adhesive, just mix with 91% IPA.
I’ve never heard of this! How cool!
I personally don't use any adhesive, but I also only print PLA, and mostly just don't want to deal with cleaning it up later... Lol. I also don't really like the finish it leaves on my prints
Also, love the Techquickie-style video
Thanks for sharing! Also, that’s the style I was shooting for, quick and educational. 💜
I lost a large print last night on an Elegoo Neptune Max 4. Which adhesive would be recommended for that printer for a large print? Is the recommended temperature at least 60 C on the heat bed? I saw it was 45 and the room cooled. This is my first go at this all this!! Thank you!
60c would be best for the build plate temp, and yes, this Nano Polymer Adhesive would be the right choice to hold it down!
loyal.ms/visionminer
@@LoyalMoses thank you sir!
I tried visionminer stuff when it first came out. PLA would not stick at all, every print failed. So I normally just keep a very clean flex plate and if I see the first layer looks bad, then out comes the glue stick.
🤔
I lost a day long print with 3 hours left because I forgot my gluestick. It was for a competition I was leaving for in less then a day, and it used more then half my spool, so I just printed the rest and epoxyd it together
It really is 3D printing insurance!
My Creality V2 worked perfect for about a year on the glass bed. Then all of a sudden I started getting curled corners. I didn't want to go the route of the glue stick, so I vigorously washed the glass bed, put the printer in an enclosure and tried fine tuning my print specs. I still had curled corners. Eventually I flipped the glass plate over, put some purple glue stick on it and never turned back
It works wonders!
@@LoyalMoses I may need to try this product. The issue I have with glue sticks, is that you need to clean it off every so often because you build up a residue in the areas that the filament doesn't touch the print bed. It seems as the the nano stuff is a thin enough layer and since it doesn't need to be reapplied so often, it won't build up.
According to the MSDS this "Nano Polymer Adhesive" is mostly 2-Propanol, or what we would usually call isopropyl alcohol. I guess they mixed in some water and PVA or PVB with IPA and sell it as "magic bullet". Might be interesting to actually try that as a cheap DIY solution.
PS: Interesting that they basically use the same bottle you get vape juice in. Makes sense, because you get them very cheap thanks to the mass production volume of vape juices.
Call them up on the phone. They hired one of the top polymer scientists to create the adhesive. PVA and PVB won't hold engineering plastics down. In-fact, you can put it on raw steel or aluminum and print directly to it. It's crazy stuff.
I like the glue stick for those items that have the large flat first layers.
I agree! Same.
Why does the link automatically add .95 shipping insurance? I tried to delete and it refreshes and adds it back. Not good, lost sale.
I was just told you can scroll down and turn off the insurance shipping option, it’s not required.
Listening to people talk about bed adhesives is like listening to them talk about their politics or sports teams. Everyone KNOWS the "right way" or the "best thing". I say try a few things out and figure out what works best for you. Personally I outright REFUSE to pay $5-10 for a special product using all sorts of buzz (ie nano polymer adhesive...that's just a fancy name for glue people) words when I can get a case of glue sticks for the same price. And here's a little tip most glue stick detractors DON'T seem to know...they can be used on things OTHER THAN YOUR PRINT BED!!!!!!!
Call them up, they hired one of the top polymer scientists in the world to create their recipe. You don’t hold down polycarbonate and PEEK with just any glue.
I don’t get upset about what people use, as long as it works for them.
@@LoyalMoses I hear ya. But since I will never have a need to print OC or PEEK a $0.25 glue stick will do me just fine. lol
4 years into printing and haven't needed adhesives. I'm sure they have their place but I think its more popular as a crutch for the average person.
When you get into more advanced filaments, you will definitely need to have some handy!
Ironically I have printed so many ABS parts on my Voron V0 with the same application of Glue Stick on a smooth PEI sheet. I haven't cleaned the plate in over 1 year. Yes I've had a few failed prints it's very rare.Of course now that I've said that, I'll probably have loads of adhesion issues now. LOL. Typically the prints that failed were very close to the edge of the build plate. I likely don't have glue there.
Glue stick is just awesome stuff! I hope you didn’t jinx yourself!
does the nano adhesive leave a residue on the print surface like glue stick?
No, it’s far cleaner. Less comes off when you remove a print than glue stick.
@@LoyalMoses great to hear, will try it.
PEI, POK, FFE, GGR, BBR What ever they want to sell is the greatest perfect build surface, the say
?
Only if nanopolymer were as affordable as gluestick which I highly doubt.
That $5 bottle lasts a while and is a great value!
On my glass bed I use glue stick but my flexible beds with PEI or PEX don't need anything.
Awesome Phil! Glue stick works nearly all the time!
In my opinion, there is no need for such overpriced special products to ensure that the 3D print sticks to the printing plate. For the few cases where I print “problematic” filaments, a glue stick is sufficient.
To be fair, you get a lot of mileage out of this stuff. I bought a bottle getting close to a year ago that's still got 1/3rd of it left. I also apply it more religiously and clean my build plate than is necessary. It's much easier to apply and clean than a glue stick. I never used hairspray so I can't compare to that.
Basically, the cost is not an issue. You get a lot of mileage out of a single application and the convenience of applying it alone makes it worthwhile to me.
You can’t hold down nylons and polycarbonates without it! 💜
@@LoyalMoses Well, I see it differently. Or rather, countless videos on YT prove that it is possible. ;)
@@Dalroth Your statement is a point that I can understand.
I use Suave hairspray for adhesive. I tried blue tape and glue sticks and neither worked, the hairspray works great.
Awesome
Only time I don’t use a glue stick, is when the bottom layer is decorative. I hate the look the glue residue leaves, even when it’s washed off.
I know what you mean. Can leave swirls, etc on the bottom.
I haven't had any issues with a light layer of the vision miner glue. No residue on the prints anyway. It does start to look a little funky on the build plate after a couple prints but never affects the models and cleans off easily.
I haven't tried it yet, but I'm wondering if diluting it out with distilled water or isopropyl alcohol so that the coating is of a uniform thickness might help...
🤔
I go for a multi-pronged defense. PVA for ASA/ABS, dilute PVA for PETG release, and nano-polymers for trouble spots and tough cases where mouse ear brims don’t apply automatically. And full brims if I’m having a bad day.
That’s awesome! Thanks for sharing that.
By PVA you mean a regular wood/school glue?
For 3D printing beds, PVA glue sticks like Elmer’s purple or the Amazon ones I put in the description. And, yes it’s the same PVA.
@@greengohm when I say dilute PVA, what I mean is I rub a glue stick onto a damp microfiber cloth and then wipe my build plate with it. I tend to dedicate build plates to each type of plastic. I find it’s unnecessary to use a thick coat with PETG, so I started doing this to try and make things less messy.
@@ziggystardog I tried something similar with smearing the glue stick residue on a plate with a damp sponge, but was wondering whether someone does it better/differently. Thanks for sharing your method!
have you use the polydryer yet
I have! Amazing machine!
Does anyone else think that he is channeling Johnny Carson from the past?!
haha! Have you told that to me before or did someone else recently say this too?!
Did you have to mention printing PETG on a glass build plate? That still stings.😢
But yeah el cheapo glue stick is my go to.
Never need to use it for your mainstream filaments, but anything that needs more heat or is expensive, cheap insurance.
Oh no! You had a glass breakage?!
@@LoyalMoses Yep I cracked it. But luckily I got a replacement metal base that lets me use pei metal sheets for the actual build surface. Not too bad but I still feel stupid about the PETG incident.
I hate adhesives. I avoid using them as much as I can. Since getting a P1S I haven't had to use adhesive for anything other than nylon and carbon fiber. Not having to use adhesive for ABS was a HUGE plus for me after buying my P1S.
Awesome!
"Boom" 😅
Heh!
I hate using bed adhesives because it's one more step it's one more thing I have to do it's one more thing I have to monitor it's one more thing I have to clean up
And no glue stick does not always work however sometimes it really does help The vision minor guys well they're witchcraft They got some black magic going on in that freaking bottle that just blows my mind
I'm printing these giant 1 kg blocks to build a shed yep I'm going to build an entire building using my own designed 1 kg per block prints
Absolutely nothing would keep this print on the build plate The only success I had was when I used my 444 printer to print the 300 mm block so I'm pretty sure it was the Delta between the outside and inside edge of the print bed cooling as you approach the edge and because the 400 by 400 bed gave you a larger buffer around the print it tended to stick better
What I was dealing with was simple warp force The part I was printing was thin and it simply warped with such great force let me describe to you how much great force p e t g on glass still warped off the glass!
It did not seem to matter what I did and then vision minor sent me their kit first thing that hit me was that one of those bottles is $60 ouch that hurts
However it freaking worked The Black magic witchcraft worked when I went to Rocky mountain murph I brought my cross with me to hold back those witches :-)
Seriously though it actually worked not only that I was able to print directly on the aluminum heat bed now keep in mind that's 50/50 every piece of aluminum is different it doesn't always work it didn't work at first but when I apply the second layer of the nanopolymer it worked and here's the real kicker I'm something like 20 prints in now and I have not had to reapply it sadly a very expensive $60 bottle is looking like a very very affordable way of making sure my prince actually stay put and as long as you let it cool and release naturally it doesn't appear to damage the nanopolymer layer They said that this would work with PLA and PETG once you go with higher temperature plastics you'll probably have to reapply every now and then since the part is going to do more damage when it pulls away from the bed
But so far I'm sold this stuff is some sort of black magic witchcraft it just sticks every time now I'm printing big fat 1 mm thick 0.8 mm high layers I haven't tried to do any fine printing like on a regular or 0.4 nozzle since that's just not what I'm printing right now
But not having to continuously reapply and it's super easy to apply Dot it down all over the bed using brush to spread it around and by the time the bed heats up it's set
Beyond that it just works I also love that I do not have to have a glass plate I can print directly on the aluminum again not always guaranteed to work My aluminum plate happens to work
PEI nope peeled off PEX peeled off PC peeled off glue stick peeled off PETG directly on glass peeled off I even brought out the tactical nuclear option I slapped down a sheet of wham bam with my old creality like cloth like sticker surface on it I only have a few of those left this stuff is kind of like that fake buildtak surface but it's almost fabric like it has a cloth like texture to it everything sticks to it and that actually worked The part did not separate from the build surface instead the part peeled the goddamn build surface off the metal plate it literally ripped the sticker off the bed I was pulling my hair out of this point trying to figure out how in the world can I print these parts without them warping sure the 444 printer worked but I only have one of those I have a dozen 333s
The nano polymer just works whatever kind of black magic witchcraft they got going on in that little pink bottle just works
WOW! Thank you for sharing! I know that took time to write and I really appreciate that.
Dissolve pva in IPA and spray in on the bed.. easy day
Absolutely!
$45 for 120ml? 😂 you lost me
If you print more advanced filaments, be sure to give it a try.
Nope, thx
It's a niche product but it does work and it doesn't cost nearly as much as you think in fact if you're printing PLA and PETG and as long as you don't try to hot remove a part you'll probably get a year out of one of the little sample bottles once you have that first set of layers down you don't really have to ever reapply it I'm 20 prints in and I have not had to reapply it so at first when I saw $60 for that bottle that turn me off real quick but now that I haven't had to reapply it in the last month and a half? I'm sold
Now this is a niche thing what I'm printing in particular was just being really nasty it would not stay not because it wasn't sticking it was sticking fine My first layer was great The part was adhering to the bed normally The problem was the warp force as the part built up was so strong that it even pulled PETG off of glass and even my tactical nuclear option of using my cloth like fake build tak surface material like creality used in the early days which was an amazing print surface mind you Even that failed me while the part did not separate from the print surface it ripped the goddamn sticker off the print bed. These parts I'm printing are just nasty but The nanopolymer just works I have not had one of these parts pull off yet absolutely flat every one of them granted I'm printing unusually large hefty parts that don't have a solid bottom layer it's all open infill and perimeters so the warping action is really high
And the fact is I haven't had to reapply the stuff as long as you let it cool and naturally release with PLA or PETG you shouldn't have to reapply it very often seriously even one of those little sample bottles will last forever
I thought I was good with a normal glue stick until I tried Nano polymer adhesive. I always use for those filaments that simply refuse to stay on bed (like nylon, collorfab HT or PC) and I can tell - it's worth the price.
1000%! Thank you for sharing!
3D lac FTW
Awesome!
@@LoyalMoses Yep i dont know if you have heard of it it comes in spray and in nano polimar dropper bottles i use it daily on all my machines just for that little extra but till now from pla to peek its freaking great
when you have pets its impossible to use glue, I've been printing for almost 10 years never used glue
Because of the hair?
Also to stop warping. Beds need to be at glass transition temps when you print. Otherwise I have prints failing all the time.
Definitely!
Thank you so much for this video! I got some from my local microcenter and im still printing from my first application!
Awesome!!! It works so well, crazy good stuff!
Love Vision Miner NPA!!! Best overall in my opinion!! 😊
Amazing stuff!
I swapped to vision miner when ASA printing ruined a bed plate on my X1C. I’ve been using it ever since.
AWESOME TO HEAR!
Vison Miner stuff is AMAZING...LOVE it!.
Yes!!!
VM NPA is absolutely the best! Worth the price. Doesn't leave the white residue other adhesives do.
Absolutely!!!
FINE. I'll try it. Looks fairly residue free, would have liked a few more examples of the prints and plate after. I don't want messes in my print cells. But I've had some curled edges lately that won't stop happening so I'm hoping this could fix it.
Give it a try, it’s cheap enough and I already know it’s going to work out very well! Let me know what you think!
I've never had issues with vision miner residue getting on on my prints. It does start to look a little funky on the build plate after a couple prints, but that's just the build plate.
@@LoyalMoses Checking back in after a handful of print tests with the Vision Miner solution. While I didn't use it with the exotics that its probably more useful for, I will confirm it definitely solved my PLA edges curling up on textured PEI sheets. No matter of washing/scrubbing ever got them to hold PLA super well after they were broke in. But since most of my prints are PLA and I like the textured look, it was nice to have them hold down again. Also didn't seem to transfer any weird color or residue over to print. The plate does show where you have printed now, which I printed over the same places to see how it would affect it. Seemed fine overall. My only gripe is not with the product but how if you touch the build plate with a rogue finger its very visible where you touched it. I assume it negates the coating. Normally I clean my plates before every print with IPA but now that won't really work. I guess it would be up to the user to decide if its worth it.
The Vision Miner bottle that Moose won on stream should be delivered tomorrow! Going to try it out with some PolyTerra on my Prusa mini
Oh! Awesome! Let me know how you like it!
I started using the Nano Polymer about a year ago. I messed with everything else before that. I bought the big bottle and 1500 prints later I haven't even used half of it. This stuff works great and I highly recommend it. I get many prints off one application (around 40-50) for PETG and PLA. For expensive and engineering filaments, I apply it on each print. I don't have to wash off the print surface as often. For me it will last at least 3000 prints, so the cost is not even 2 cents a print. It is worth it to me.
Absolutely! Amazing stuff.
I'll wait until my package of 10 glue sticks run out to try this.
Absolutely!!!