I've been shooting 7mm-08 for years as it is a good compromise between the two. I push a 162gr ELD-X with 0.631 BC at 2700 fps. Slightly more efficient than 6.5 143 ELD-X but better frontal area and weight. Can always make lighter bullets scream too. Love the round
Although I usually use my .308, I can attest to the fact that the 7mm-08 is an excellent round for deer hunting (as well as other forms of game). I bought one for my wife back around 85 and we both love it. Since I have the .308, I cannot picture getting another 7mm-08 for me since I can use hers if I choose to. She has it in a Browning BLR.
@@brileytaylor7619 Diameter and weight don't translate into energy. The 6.5CM is a better round. The further the target, the larger the discrepancy in power and accuracy. After 300yds the .308 isn't even in the same ballpark.
@@philonetic321 You said it all when you mentioned "target". I dropped a bull moose in Ontario with my 99 savage .308 1 inch from the heart,he reared up did a 180 and dropped dead! the proof is there in the .308, you may not have shot as many big game animals as i but i will stick with something that ive seen work many times over! never tried eating targets and dont plan on it.
It may have been mentioned in a previous comment but the one main advantage to a .308, in my opinion, is that it is a nato cartridge which makes ammo and components a little more common.
@@therevoman the only advantage the 6.5 has over the .308 is long range accuracy and thats it.I can reload my .308 ammo for 50 cents a round,my mate reloads his 6.5 and costs him 90 cents a round. Go figure. Go and buy a 20 round box of 6.5 creedmore $68.00 off the shelf-a 20 round box of .308 is $35.00. I know what id rather be spending my money on and that is the .308 anyday. 6.5 cm will not take down all our game here in Australia, the .308 will take down anything we have in Australia. A 6.5 cm would bounce off a northern territory water buffalo,a .308 will stop it dead in its tracks. Again the 6.5 advantage is only for long distance accuracy and that is all.
@@Healthliving1967 I was referring to the cheap FMJ’a available in .308. There isn’t yet an equivalent for 6.5mm. Last time I tried the cheap FMJs they seemed to be 1” at 50 yards but I couldn’t get mine to group well beyond that
This has been your best and most informative video yet. Every time I get tempted to add a 65CM to the collection I get pulled back to the idea of a new gun in the same tried and true 308 I’m already invested in and know. I think the biggest thing most people overlook is how far you need to shoot to really see a huge difference between the two. Most shooters don’t go out to these long distances that often.
Agreed. I have both, but I rarely use my .308 anymore now that I live out west. 2 years ago I went hunting and we had extremely strong winds, and it was far more noticeable on the .308. I still use the .308 when I'm hunting on a river or when I don't have to worry about crosswinds as much. It's totally dependent on what you are shooting and where you are at.
308 has one major advantage not often talked about, being chambered in rifles that aren’t just meant for precision. 6.5 makes better long range cartridge especially at the 800 and really the 1000 yard and beyond mark. 308 excels in the “Battle rifle” area where a 16” barreled semi auto comes into play. From kicking in doors to sitting on the roof top acting as a DMR out to 800 yards just isn’t something you see with guns in 6.5 like you do in 308. It’s also hard to beat the commonality of 308. It’s been a NATO standard round since it was created. There are 2nd and 3rd world countries full of surplus 7.62X51 and the rifles that shoot them. Parts of Africa you see FAL’s and G3’s still in use. I’ve bought brass cased surplus 7.62X51 in the 40 cents a round price range before, and bought steel case 308 as low as 28 cents a round. Granted steel case isn’t anything like federal gold metal match but as a higher volume shooter who will put 200-500 rounds down range at a time twice a month being competitive at times with 556 prices plays a big role. In just ten months of shooting I fired 4200 rounds of 308 through just one of my rifles chambered in that. That’s almost double the barrel life of what most people agree on for 6.5. You also see much more non-precision barrels in 308 that are built with durability and longevity in mind paired with acceptable accuracy vs to top of the line accuracy. FN warranties the Scar 17 barrels in military service for a life span of 30,000 rounds shooting M80. Military acceptance standard is 4 MOA, which is more than most people find acceptable but 4” group at 100 yards shooting 147 FMJ after that many rounds shows something. That’s the beauty of a cold hammer forged chrome lined 4140 barrel plus the ammo is cheap enough where you could actually shoot that much. Then you get into hand loads which can range from the 125 grain to the 225 grain bullet weights which really can make it a do-all cartridge if someone is dedicated.
A year ago I was stuck between buying a .308 or a 6.5, and well the biggest thing for me was availability of ammo. Here in Western Pa, .308 was the most common one to find. So that’s what I went with, and I’ve been very happy. I bought a Tikka t3x lite and it’s my preferred hunting rifle. I’ve shot two deer with this season, and both dropped immediately.
Thanks for the comment. Looking at Tikkas for the wife and deciding between the 2 cartridges. I think .308 is the way to go. Problem is the tikka I want is only available in 20 inch barrel and I want the 24 which they have in 6.5.
I’ve shot multiple deer with both and you’re correct. The .308 kills faster for me too. It’s not a weak cartridge on the top end either. As a hand loader I can get Velocities and performance that equals 30-06 factory loadings from my .308 and we all know how many Elk have fallen to 30-06. Makes the .308 a very versatile gun. When I want coyotes I dig out my .243
I’m about to start hand loading myself. Main reason why i wanna hand load is because of exactly what you said, in regards of making hand loaded 308s perform as a higher cartridge.
@@TheBamayaker yeah I can’t wait. To get started on that. I’m still getting a 6.5 CM though. Saw a deal on a Daniel Defense 6.5 upper, couldn’t pass it up.
I debated these two cartridges with myself for awhile. Ended up sticking with .308 when i bought a new bolt gun. Reasons were its, cheaper, more available, ballistically not too much different within hunting ranges, and interchangeable with existing semi auto. In a word, mostly logistics. Having a fancy cartridge doesn't do any good if you can't find it, cant afford it, and can't use it in anything but the one gun. As for performance: Cow elk, 460 yards, Federal 180 grain jacketed soft point. Hit the animal twice on the right side, I found both rounds just under the hide on it's left side. Seems to work well enough for me.
Both are excellent cartridges, both will do basically the exact same things. Both have advantages over the other. But when it comes down to nut cutting times most people are going to and probably should choose the 308. It’s cheaper to shoot, meaning can shoot more often. It’s cheaper to reload, the range of available projectiles is greater, it’s easier to shoot subsonic if needed (but not nearly as efficient as a subsonic 300blk). The 30 cal just works across the board. I *LOVE* the various 6.5’s, my first two rifles ever were both Arisaka carbines that I had inherited. 6.5 has literally taken ever game animal that walks the earth including elephants. But if I had to pic a single cartridge to own and know I could almost certainly walk into any Walmart or gun store to buy ammo that would work on southern white tails or elk or even moose, it’d still be a non-magnum 30cal, probably a 308 or 30-06, honestly it’d be the -06.
6.5 is now widely available and is no more expensive than .308. Check midway. .308 in the same cart is often more expensive than 6.5. Hornady Whitetail, for example.
@@TheChiconspiracy It carries more energy under 300-500yds depending on weight, that's the only ballistic advantage. After 500, 6.5 has the clear advantage in accuracy and effect on target. But you're right, most hunting and combat is all under 300yds so it really doesn't matter for most. They would need to be a fairly seasoned marksman for the differences to even matter to begin with and most have never shot 1000.
@@philonetic321 It's also a wider bullet, and the ballistics gels test show a SUBSTANTIAL damage improvement over the creedmoor within ethical hunting ranges. At 500 and beyond, even with a skilled shooter and ideal conditions, your typical deer or elk can easily take a step forward by the time that middling creedmoor gets there.
I have both and the thing with the 308 is that you have to know its capabilities and limitations as well as your own. Yes, the 6.5 is flatter shooting but again - know the caliber's capabilities and you will be fine. The 308 was a sniper round for a reason!!!!!
A balanced approach to what can be a decisive topic. I like the idea mentioned in the comments that the cartridges compliment each other. I went with the .30-06 for its excellent versatility, especially since I handload, but if I hadn’t chosen the ‘06 and I wanted a thirty caliber, the .308 would likely have gotten the nod. I had a 6.5 CM, but I sold it because I didn’t care for the rifle it was in, not because it was a bad cartridge. I keep toying with the idea of getting another, but it’s difficult to justify since a Weatherby 7-08 came to town. 🙂
I have owned my Remington 700 in .308 for 18 years and have harvested many deer w it. None of them have ever ran from where they caught lead poisoning.
Good video, my preference in the short action would be the 7MM-08; similar recoil to 6.5 creed for medium game (deer/black bear etc) with 139gr bullets. When comparing cartridges of different diameters you should always be comparing bullets by the Sectional density, not bullet weights (this is the penetration effectiveness), so realistic comparison would be 6.5 in 130gr (.264 sec. density)/7mm in 150gr (.266 sec. density)/308 in 175gr (.265 sec. density); its the only proper way to compare bullets of different diameters, if case/powder supply is similar and you go by weight only then physics dictates larger surface area(.308 vs .264) for pressure to push on will always give more velocity for the bullet and at closer ranges say 300-400yards, energy will be more as energy calculation favors velocity as its squared and at closer ranges the BC's don't do much for you, but this is not a fair comparison as the 308 in similar weight bullet will not retain energy well or have same penetration potential as the same weight 6.5 or 7mm bullets. 7MM-08 is more versatile, can shoot 130-139gr comparably with more energy and similar sectional densities to 6.5 for deer but can shoot up to the 175gr with better performance then the 308 with 175's if desired. Just my 2 cents. Lol, your Wifes dig on the 6.5 with her being able to "Deliver" with more "Push" was Hilarious, glad she enjoys contributing to your content.
I would only pick the 6.5 for competition. For hunting , 308 Win without a doubt. Recoil is still manageable by ladies. I have just got my hands on a Beretta BRX1 in .308Win with 22.5" barrel and it's a piece of cake. Very easy to shoot.
Nice video . I think the 308 is amazing for hunting . I only hunt whitetails and black bears , and with the right bullet , I would not hesitate to hunt moose or elk with it . When I hit a game animal with it , sometimes I swear it is a 300 magnum ! I usually go for a lung shot , and the spray cloud upon exit is unbelievable ! Of course, you have to be selective about distance , and I rarely have to shoot beyond 200 yards , and 95 percent of the time , most of my shots are less than 100 yards , do to the terrain that I hunt in in the North Eastern United States , which is very thick and mountainous . You should have Emily's input in more of your videos !
Agreed. A lot of these UA-cam channels have a Western bias. These numbers for 400 and 600 yards are meaningless for Northeast hunters. No place to shoot prone or off a backpack here. No one carries shooting sticks. Likely don't even have time to rest against a tree. All my shots are off-hand. Like you say, that limits shots to less than 200 yards. .308 is ideal here. I can see Western guys wanting flatter shooters though for that environment. However, Randy Newberg gets it done with a .308.
The only advantage .308 has is the availability of cheap, not so great, steel case and similar ammunition. Once you get into match ammo the cost is virtually identical between .308 and 6.5
@@BJE0719 I bought 50 unprimed brass casings in .308 PPU brand for $25.00 new. Good quality brass and 1/3 of the price of Winchester, Remington, starline,lapua,jagman.
@@BJE0719 A box of 20 rounds of .308 winchester factory ammo is $35.00 -a 20 round box of 6.5 cm in Winchester is $68.00 factory ammo, thats almost double the cost bloke so i dont know where you are getting your prices from but your wrong.
@@BJE0719 Well, there are crates of m 80 ball that groups at 1.6 MOA available for 60 -80 cents around. 7.62x51 is interchangeable with .308. The little Creedmoor round is not NATO of course so either way you pay more for a round that's only better for paper punching past 400 meters. You can find .308 in ANY shit hole in any country in the world so....
Here's the difference: I'm at a Mom and Pops store in Ruralsville, USA. They'll have .308 ammunition on the shelf. If I were to ask for 6.5 Creed, Pop would lean over, spit out his chew, and say.... "Only what you see on the shelf."
Not entirely incorrect. On most shelves there will be both, but especially during the recent ammo-apocalypse one will have significantly more variety than the other, and at significantly different prices. Even in places like Academy the available 6.5 CM was basically limited to premium ammunition, where as 308 was on the shelf in multiple boxes from different manufacturers & at various cost levels. Even from the same company on the same product line there has generally been several dollars difference between the two. And plain Jane 308 150gr Core-Lokt will still kill deer and elk inside of 300yds. Both are fine, both work, get both, shoot both.
That’s all well and good just remember that in over half of the country the predominant cartridges are going to be 30-06, 270, 308, 7mm Rem, & 300WM. Move out west and those 5 cartridges will swap around a bit & one or two might be replaced with a different magnum, but still they will hold in the top 10 even in the mountain states. As such most dealers and most manufacturers will still have those rounds in production during a slump. As good as the PRC & CM cartridges are, and they are truly fantastic, they will be shut down before those 5. Simply put there’s more existing rifles in them than the new 6.8 Western, any of the new CM/PRC’s, etc.
@@soonerfrac4611 That is the only single reason I'm going to add a .308. I hunt with a .270, but the ammo's lack of variety and favoritism among the old timers/country folk like me means when people start to panic buy, .270 is completely out of stock and it takes months for them to catch up. As you said, .308 is almost always available.
I think another merit for the .308 is that, while both cartridges can get away with short barrels, .308 can get away with the shortest between the two. 20 inches is what I like to see for 6.5 creed but I’m content going as short as 16 inches with .308
I think it was Applied Ballistics talking about this in 308. You lose around 100fps for every 4 inches of barrel you chop off. So from 22 to 18 or 20 to 16 there is only 100fps difference. Also I think it was either at 16 or 18 inches you start to see a drop in acceleration.
I am a high-velocity/light bullet guy and love 6.5 CM. Perfect for feral hogs, antelope, whitetails and even yotes with 90g varmint bullets. High BC 6.5 bullets carry much more energy at longer ranges. I think 308 is overkill for what I use them for. I sold off my 308 and now shoot (and reload) 6.5 Grendel, 6.5 CM and 260 Rem.
I have watched a number of your videos to help me narrow down my choices for a new rifle purchase. I settled on a Weatherby Vanguard in .308 Win. New subscriber here. Thank you!
@@backfire Yes and fluted! I got a great price on a First Lite series VFN308NR6B. It is not in hand yet. I just purchased at the end of last week awaiting shipment to FFL. Matching it with an Athlon Argos BTR 6-24x50.
I absolutely love the versatility of my 308. I can reload 110 gr bullets for variety and plinking, then I can go up to 165-180 for big game hunting. I've yet to need a second round to put anything down. And I guess I'm not one that jumps on a band wagon every time something new comes out. Recoiled don't much matter to me. I barely notice it with my thumb hole stock. And the biggest point I bring up is if your hunting some odd place 308 ammo is always there if you need extra. It's one of the few calibers I've never had to search for ammo for. Unless maybe you're looking for a very particular brand or gr. I'm sure the 6.5 is nice but the recoil tests you shown had a big bullet gr difference. The 150-167gr bullets are really pretty light recoil. When you get close to 180 with the 308 you start feeling it more.
I dislike both cartridges because there are better tools for the job but, I would pick the .308 because of the large variety of bullets that can be loaded into the case. Both cases are inherently accurate. That said, you can't go wrong with either. If I had to pick, it would be the .308. FYI, I don't own a rifle in either cartridge because I think there are better tools for the same job in my environment. Great video and comparison.
It can also be a generational thing. My Dad's generation loved 30.06. I became a fan of .308 and picking up an M14 and earning my marksmanship badge first try in the Navy 30 some years ago. My son? Loves his 6.5.
Obsolete and obsolescence are two different things. 308 MIGHT be a bit old in the tooth but it's still a highly accurate round, using modern gun powders, with a long barrel life. There's a ton of reasons to continue to use 308 even in 2023. Until 6.5 creedmoor becomes cheaper per round than 308, I will probably not get a 6.5. I know they're great - I just don't feel the need to replace my cartridges. We like to pretend that a 10% better cartridge is enough to completely switch over for. Even a 30% better cartridge might not be better enough for me to switch to.
Good news, 6.5 is cheaper. Has been for the last 5 years, off and on. That argument never actually held water. Check midway. Hornady whitetail and others, .308 is more expensive. Both are still overpriced but you can find boxes under $30.
@@philonetic321 Yep. I've seen 6.5 cheaper for a while now. And that minor cost difference isn't enough to get me to buy one. In the woods and mountains, I'll never have a line of sight to need a 6.5's distance, so there's no logic to choosing a round that doesn't hit as hard.
I think a better comparison would have been the 150 grain in 308 versus the 143 grain 6.5 CM. 308 wins hands down. That said, I own both because I can. I would hunt everything from whitetail to yotes with the 6.5, and Bear down to yotes with 308. Good video to generate discussion at deer camp. LOL
I've been shooting 6.5mm for 15 years and .308 for much longer. On the ballistic charts the only place that a .308 150 grain bullet beats a 140-143 grain 6.5 is at the muzzle energy and retained energy out to about 75-80 yards. After that the time of flight, drift, drop, velocity and energy are all owned by the 6.5.
Life has become more complicated. When I started hunting owning one rifle was a luxury. You had to choose carefully. The 30-06 was considered the best all around choice along with the .270. You shot rabbits and squirrels with a shotgun usually a single shot 12 or 20. My first .22 was a single shot Winchester 67 with iron sights. I got really good with that rifle at taking small game and with a lot less money. All ammo was expensive so you learned how to shoot or there was nothing in the pot! Marketing has gotten better and better at convincing us that more is better and in essence turned us into what buys. That trend continues. The themes are bigger, badder, faster, lighter, less recoil and the look. Truth is the old 3006 is still a viable choice that you can walk all over America with and with the right bullet selection shoot anything out there. Look at the 6.5 Creedmoor the industry is starting to move away from it and there are new challengers but the 3006, .270, 7mm mag , .308 and the .22 lr just keep on taking game. I nothing against long range shooting and many enjoy it. Marketing is king of the gun world. Hell you can’t go hunting unless you smell like something other than yourself lol.
7mm-08 gives the best of both worlds. Especially when you hand load for it. The higher BCs like the bullets used by the 6.5 Creedmoor but the larger bullet size giving more frontal diameter like the 308. That is just my opinion though.
Thank you for the informative video. After watching it, I decide to pick up my first precision rifle in .308, just to get something cheaper and harder to shoot at the beginning and switch to an easier cartridge later to appreciate the recoil, bullet drop improvements
I would rather just for for the 6.5cm from the get go - I did a 308 first, then 6.5cm and I kick myself for not moving sooner - take the money you would have spent on a 308 and get 6.5cm reloading gear or just pay for the ammo - :D
@@Muddyfox47 I guess we all have different priorities. I'd rather spend the cost of a barrel on ammo and shoot more. I suppose it also depends on what we want to do. I have no intention of participating in PRS matches or any other shooting competitions, so I'll be happy of I can just keep my groups under 1 MOA within the cartridge's effective range. A good 308 can do that.
6.5 Creedmoor has made my 270 and 243 obsolete. That’s why they’re in my two nephews hands now. My 308 can handle 200 grain Accubonds and 185 grain Lapua Megas, plus my 168 Barnes which is my standard. I only shoot 120 grain GMX in the 6.5, so I don’t consider it in the same category
great content great topic: it is awesome to see an influencer finaly tell the truth about 308 vs 6.5cm and not really try and push 6.5cm. personally I'm .308 nutz it is awesome. I use it for everything don't have a care for 6.5CM, it just ain;t got that umph to me. 6.5cm is good for the range and target shooting long range targets, but for hunting or anything else really I will stick to .308
I have both. I love both. I love guns. I think each have their place. I don't understand why this topic is still so hot, but it is. Thanks for your time and great video.
I will get my first rifle in 6,5 mostly because I am going to spend a lot of time practicing to start off. I'd even prefer a .223 but that one just does not come with the power for hunting. The only huge flaw I can see is the super long barrel with a suppressor. The mostly shorter .308 barrels for hunting rifles make very nice handling packages and even take away some recoil.
If money is a factor for you, the 6,5 is probably more expensive to practice with. At least here the cheap ammo for both is about the same price for 40 bullets 6,5 vs 50 bullets .308.
In Australia the 308 can be nearly half the price of 6.5cm and available everywhere while 6.5 can be less so outside major cities. Also 308 is legal for our most popular deer to hunt, the Sambar deer while 6.5 is not. And we make a good 308 here which helps.
Howdy mate! A brother from America TEXAS to be precise. Question can you'll have guns my understanding they took all your guns 30 years ago. Just want to know why do you allowed it
@@Casca-su3ty we just cant have semi auto and auto, rules tightened for handguns. Otherwise each state is mildy different but we can definatly have guns. My state i can even have a black powder cannon. The "aussies lost all guns" is used by americans alot. Our rules would not work for you and vise versa. Safe hunting and happy shooting buddy
@@bestestusername crazy because black powder in America isn't even considered a Gun the same as other cartridges like a 9mm, 556 etc. Convicted felons lose their right to guns here and yet a lot of them can still own black powder guns because of the technicality between them. always interesting to learn about other countries.
I've been shooting .308 for business and pleasure for 30 years and I've never really fell into the caliber trap that most manufacturers try to draw people in to.. That being said it was a rare instance when I stretched it past 600 yards. Most of my hunting shots are within 100 yards and while in training for police marksmanship work we stayed within 200 yards and stuck with the AR in 5.56 or 7.62 or a bolt gun in .308. I've never found a new caliber that would improve the performance of the .308 within the parameters we inherited. Now if I was out west where a 200 yard shot is point blank then maybe I would look at the 6.5 or better yet the 7mm PRC.
It is a shame the army did not neck down the 308 to 7mm and adopt the 7mm 08 back when. It would be a difficult battle to unseat that one especially if it would have been established as the army/ Nato round. 6.5 creedmore would not stand a chance against an established 7mm 08 Nato round.
as you go to shot show, the one question I really want to know is "it chambered in 7PRC"? That's my next rifle and I'm considering whether to go with something from a semi-custom manufacturer or do a custom rig similar to what you've done. Unfortunately, some of the rifles I'm most interested in have yet to be chambered in 7PRC.
Yes, please find out if Bergara is going to build rifles chambered in 7 PRC this year! 😎 Maybe even do a survey for the interest in 7 PRC and share the results with gun manufacturers not yet on board in chambering it.
308 for efficiently putting game on the ground. 6.5 for target shooting at longer on range Saturday, then take an 8 point buck Sunday. I went with 7mm-08 because it is right in between
Sir, I noticed that whenever you compare ballistics of the .308, you usually choose a very heavy for caliber bullet like 178 gn. But the .308 is constructed for 150 gn projectiles (or 168 gn at best). It's best weight to velocity (=energy) ratio being with 150 gn projectiles. This would be a much better "apples to apples" comparison, especially in this particular case IMHO. So why such heavy bullets in your ballistic charts? Cheers, Kamil
exactly! I like both calibers and would hunt with either one of them. 308 is substantially cheaper in my neck of the woods too. I reload, so the cost fact not an issue for me.
@Logik Bomb Thanks for this info, but for hunting bullets (especially of the monolithic full copper type) rather light for caliber projectiles are recommended. Snipers might have their valid reasons for using heavier bullets (BC, penetration etc.). Cheers, K.
Great review. Nice that you stick to the facts and cover many aspects of ammunition. However, for most shoots that shoot under 300 yards, there is no difference, and for new shooters, cost is really important.
I had this dilemma for my first precision rifle and I picked .308 in a bergara wilderness HMR. I love the thing. Recoil is nothing with a little bit porky of a rifle, i can shoot most every animal in North America as long as it’s within a reasonable range. Later on I’ll pick up more of a lightweight 7 mag or something for backcountry hunting but I’m still a beginner and I mostly wanted a bench gun cause that’s where my main interest is. The HMR fit the bill perfect! A bench gun you can take hunting if needed.
The 6.5CM just doesn't really check any boxes for me. Maybe if I wasn't already invested in components I may consider it but if I want more juice than my .308, I go to a 300WSM. I don't really see a 6.5CM filling or bridging a gap in between .308's and bigger/faster cartridges.
Nice! Your analysis answered all the questions I had about the differences between the 2 cartridges. Of course, a year later I think the price gap has significantly narrowed between the 2. In fact, at my local gun shop you can't sometimes find the 6.5 Creedmoor for a bit less than the .308 by the same manufacturer. I'm trying to decide between the .308 and 6.5 Creedmoor stepping up from .223/5.56. I think your presentation has influenced me to side with .308.
The answer is…No because from 300 yards and closer which is normal deer hunting ranges the .308 is just better and more factory loads available at cheap prices
I’m thinking of adding a 6.5 Creedmoor bolt gun for my next rifle. It would be for long range shots. I have a Diamond Back in 308, but it’s more of a self defense gun being it’s a pistol with 13.5” barrel.
I’m currently using a 300 savage model 99 that was my grandfather’s (for deer). Such a great shooter! 308 replaced this cartridge and would be my choice when I decide to replace. For elk I use a 300 Winchester mag and been very happy. Love the shows!
Love my 6.5. Does everything I need for my style of hunting. Although I'm looking for a quarter bore, and keep hoping manufacturers roll out the 25 Creedmoor or a 25 prc. Might be a good question for the manufacturers at shot show🤔
Good review. I was with you up to creedmoor being more versatile. Most guys don’t buy a hunting gun and run match competitions with it. Or other way around. I do agree that creed is a better target cartridge. On killing elk, see Randy Newberg on elk and 308. He’s got a garage full of elk taken with one.
6.5CM produces 1,500 ft-lbs of energy for elk-sized game out to 510 where the .308 is already drifting 6-8 inches more than the 6.5. Push up to 600 and the .308 is dropping nearly 30 more inches and drifting 10. The 6.5 is already surpassing the .308 in energy just after 250yds where they equalize in energy at around 1900lbs.
Results of USASOC-US Army joint testing; The .308 M110 175gr goes trans at 760m and subsonic at 980m. Energy at 1000m is 456ft/lbs. The 6.5CM 147gr goes trans at 1100m and subsonic at 1460m. Energy at 1000m is 676ft/lbs. USASOC conclusions of 6.5CM over M110 .308; 6.5CM doubles hit probability at 1000m, 33% increase in effective range, 30% increase in energy on target, 40% decreased wind effect, decreased recoil.
❤well working in a store with a gun shop I had a choice of any rifle and caliber. I passed up the 6.5CM for a Sako S20 in .308. It’s a great rifle and the .308 is a very versatile caliber. I’m using Federal Nosler Partition in 150 grain and it is a tack driver! I went with sensible not sexy!
It‘s actually balistic soap and not ballistic wax. It’s really awesome to compare the reaction of different bullets hitting a target. After shooting at the soap, you cut it open in the Center and can measure a lot of different parameters (for example penetration, largest diameter of cavity, distance till reaching this diameter). With some skill you can even measure the volume of the cavity by filling it with liquid before cutting it open. Greeting from Germany
Always enjoy your content. Ever since your video on 9mm handguns and really enjoying Matrix Arms.. ...I hope you stop by and record information about their products at the show.
Slight Ballistic advantage and lower recoil of the 6.5 is great for longer range, for light game and range work. But for general all purpose hunting (in South Africa), 308 all day long. I own both. They are a ‘fit for purpose’ decision. BTW once suppressed, recoil difference is negligible.
Light game... 6.5CM produces 1,500 ft-lbs of energy for elk-sized game out to 510 where the .308 is already drifting 6-8 inches more than the 6.5. Push up to 600 and the .308 is dropping nearly 30 more inches and drifting 10. The 6.5 is already surpassing the .308 in energy just after 250yds where they equalize in energy at around 1900lbs. USSOCOM chose 6.5CM as their intermediate sniper round for its ability to penetrate barriers. That might tell you something.
Great video showing pros of each round. I love my 308 and I like my 6.5 but that depends on what I’m doing. Hunting I’m 308 all day but if shooting for the fun of it and doing long range 6.5 all day. Now Jim you mentioned elks and no 308. Whys that I would think you’d like it over the other but would like the personal thoughts on it
Both cartridges excel at their intended purposes the 308 is a better hunting cartridge and the 6.5 better at target shooting. At the distances where the 6.5 surpasses the 308 the energy is usually inadequate for larger game. If your only buying one gun (who does that) split the difference and go 7mm-08. There really isn’t much of a debate.
6.5CM produces 1,500 ft-lbs of energy for elk-sized game out to 510 where the .308 is already drifting 6-8 inches more than the 6.5. Push up to 600 and the .308 is dropping nearly 30 more inches and drifting 10. The 6.5 is already surpassing the .308 in energy just after 250yds where they equalize in energy at around 1900lbs. 7mm-08 is a better round up to 500 but is also hard to find and more expensive than either. Its performance also drops off like a rock after 500. 6.5 is nearly as good as .308 to 250, it's nearly as good as 7mm to 500 and is superior to either one after 500 in energy and ballistics. It can hunt and then some. I'm having a hard time seeing why it's not the smarter buy of the 3.
You mentioned many valid points for both. However in the end the 308 will become obsolete if no one wants to shoot it anymore. I doubt that the 6.5 is going to convince us 308 owners to drop it.
I've seen people use massive clay blocks to demonstrate expansion of rounds. Would look awesome in super slo mo! .308 for hunting for me. I'm ex-military so have had a bit of real world experience with this round. I'll leave the 6.5 for the latte drinking 1,000 yard crew 🙂
Latte drinking? Not gonna say anything about hairstyles? I'm not going to knock the .308, but your endorsement don't mean much to me if your choice is motivated by style rather than substance.
@@stevenfischer9772 how about this then the 308 has more kinetic energy and leaves better blood trails of the creedmoor since you just want facts 1 rifle was designed more for punching paper and 1was designed more to kill things
@@stevenfischer9772 but I honestly see whoever use them shoot the 2 they the most accurate with because a 308 does have more recoil than a creedmoor and not everyone can handle recoil the same
I like 308 for shorter range knock down power. Shooting a sick cow on the farm it is better to use a 308 168 gr than a 270 in 130gr bullet. Both are effective but that frontal mass of 30 cal makes a difference.
6.5 is better if you want a dedicated deer rifle that will shoot a little better with less recoil. 308 is better in every other catergory. Can shoot 200+ grain bullets at super or subsonic speeds. Can shoot 115grn copper bullets over 3100fps. I also completely agree with the frontal diameter being far undervalued in killing ability.
Speaking of wearing out a 22 barrel. I completely eroded the Chamber of a Ruger Mark III and the gun was replaced at a discount by ruger. It took about 100K rounds to do it.
Appreciate this video. It was well done. I like the .308. I don't mind recoil and I am a price conscious. If I was 50 pounds lighter and a lot richer, I'd be thinking about the 6.5. For now though, a .308 guy.
Availability and price aside... when I talk to local dog trackers who work during deer season and they tell me that a majority of the calls they get now are for tracking whitetails shot with a 6.5 creedmore, that's enough for me to make a decision.
The problem with the 6.5 Creedmoor is that you have to buy it in a specific configuration and shoot it at long range in order to justify it; It has to be a long barrel rifle that is accurized with a high quality scope, and you have to shoot heavy ~145 grain bullets and they have to be match grade, and you have to shoot at 700 yards and beyond. If you change anything in that equation the .308 becomes the better option. Not to mention that people hunt really big animals like Bison with the .308. I don't know if I would try that with the 6.5 Creedmoor. Also, the difference between the best bullets for both calibers is not as big as you might imagine, e.g. with the Hornady 6.5 creedmoor ELD 147 grain you get 307 inches of drop at 1000yards, while their .308 168 grain ELD drops 321 inches; thats only 4.5% difference.
Not really. I'm spamming at this point but too many of you have failed to look at the results of USSOCOM testing of 6.5 family of carts and why they chose to adopt the 6.5CM. 6.5CM produces 1,500 ft-lbs of energy for elk-sized game out to 510 where the .308 is already drifting 6-8 inches more than the 6.5. Push up to 600 and the .308 is dropping nearly 30 more inches and drifting 10. The 6.5 is already surpassing the .308 in energy just after 250yds where they equalize in energy at around 1900lbs. USSOCOM chose 6.5CM as their intermediate sniper round for its ability to penetrate barriers and the fact that is carries 30% more energy at 1000. That might tell you something. USSOCOM (U.S. Special Operations Command) found that, as compared to flat-footed .308 (specifically M118LR, the military’s best long-range .308 load), 6.5 Creedmoor doubles snipers’ hit probability at 1,000 meters, increases effective range by at least a third, increases energy on target by 50%, reduces the effect of wind by 40%, etc etc.
Here we go; Since USSOCOM uses DoD specific loads not for public use, let's compare some normal factory loads; "For this, we’ll use Hornady’s ELD-X projectiles loaded in Hornady’s Precision Hunter ammo. That’s a 178 grain .308 Winchester and a 143 grain 6.5 Creedmoor. • At 1,000 yards, the .308 drops 372.1 inches. The 6.5 drops 319.8 inches. That’s over 16% more drop with the .308. • At 1,000 yards with a 10 mph, full-value (perpendicular to bullet travel) crosswind, the .308 drifts 77.6 inches off course. The 6.5 drifts 62.6 inches. That’s 24% more wind drift from the .308. • At 1,000 yards, the .308 is still trucking along at 1,287.2 fps. But the 6.5 is doing 1,492.7 fps. • While the .308 goes transonic at about 1,100 yards, the 6.5 doesn’t get into that slipping-out-of-supersonic-and-becoming-unstable territory for another 200 yards still. Predictable accuracy out to at least 1,300."
@@philonetic321 Yes I agree. All of the calculations I have done show similar results. You simply have to shoot heavy match bullets out of a long barrel in 6.5 Creedmoor to justify it. The moment you decrease the weight or change the bullet design to something like a soft point, the 6.5's ballistic performance falls squarely withing .308 ballistic performance. Which means it drops and drifts the same, but has less energy and impact area. B.t.w. Check out Hornady's 168 Superformance .308, it has incredible ballistic performance. The best 6.5 Creedmoor I know of is Berger's 144 grain. It shoots like a laser. There is also one interesting thing to consider: .308 has access to some very high BC bullets, higher that anything for 6.5 Creedmoor. Of course they require a long action and longer magazines than standard .308 Winchester, which means a custom rifle. Some of those projectiles allow the .308 Winchester to remain supersonic to almost a mile.
Yes, they are using too heavy of a bullet 120grn too 130grn is perfect for deer when the high sectional density 140grn is used it is way too much bullet, and stay within .230 to .266 sectional density and watch DRT. The heavy 6.5 bullets of 140grn should only be used on heavy game like elk. The bullet can get a chance to expand, I found this to be true with most calibers, so stay within .230 or or .266, the .270 or above elk, the 6.5 bullets punch way above their weight, and this is why you see these problems pop up and go even lighter when it comes to the copper bullet 100grn to 120grn they pass through just about every time unless they find bone, I found the 129IL by Hornady very profound game stoppers, The Hornady white tail hunter if a person does not reload, hope it helps it sure works good for me, aim small, good hunting, GOD bless.
I started hunting 48 years ago with a .308 in a Rem 600 and took truckloads of caribou with 150 grain bullets. Really good killing power and I used it to 300 + yards with very good results. The 6.5 C is something I have just started using and absolutely love shooting it. I can see the bullet impact at 150 yards or more and as I am often solo hunting I really like this feature. At 500 yards it hits with better energy levels than my 25-06 and I think for caribou and sheep I am going to be well served. Looking forward to playing with this round.
Good topic. Making your wife shoot a 308 w/o a sight on it with as many rifles and scopes you have was ridiculous. You failed to mention why the 308 is cheaper...... Military round. Unless the 6.5 Creedmore gets adopted my military it'll never be cheaper to shoot. Ballistically they both work great. It's hard to beat a bigger, heavier bullet. Momentum matters.
I love my 308 and have taken 2-3 deer and a pronghorn with it and only had it for a few years but I can’t argue with its performance from 100yds - 400yds. I shoot a 168 grain copper bullet.
I think you’re choosing a weird 308 load. A 178/180 is really out of the wheelhouse of that cartridge. Sure you can stuff it in but it’s not optimal. A 150 grain monolithic is the ticket in 308 for hunting, the Barnes TTSX factory load does 2850 fps, and the new Sig copper loading does 2900 with a 150. Those are elk bullets and the velocity puts them in their expansion window out to 400 yards conservatively. A lot of my buddies shoot whitetail with the 130 grain TTSX that thing is like a little magnum at close to 3200 fps.
I use 165 and take bear and elk with it, I'm sure a 150 or a 180 would work equally well, I like the 165 because that's what I get the best accuracy with.
he chose the 178gr because it is the factory Hornady ELDX loading to compare with the 143 ELDX factory 6.5CM load. That said... if you handload, and have a 1/10 twist barrel or faster, try a heavier/Higher BC bullet. Push a 200gr ELDX or Terminal Ascent bullet to 2550 FPS at the muzzle in a 22inch 308win, and that thing is still well over 1500 foot pounds of energy and nearly 1900fps at 600 yards. For bullets that are designed to open up down below 1600fps, that is well within their optimal terminal ballistics threshold.
i recently bought a barret mrad. in 338lm caliber. i also bought a 24 inch 308 barrel. it has a 1 in 8 twist and iv been playing with the new 200g sierra. [2231]loaded long 3.100. the mrad is perfect for this load. long action and fast twist. very high bc @.715. my velocity is 2500. its puts the supersonic range on par with the 6.5 creedmoor. im debating whether i need a 6.5 anymore.
@@kwiturbitchin5277 agree it is. That’s why 20 yrs ago I wanted a short action 7mm but kinda wanted the magnum so I went with the 7mm wsm. Not a popular round but the 7mm wsm is phenomenal. My other rifles sit in the cabinet gathering dust and I hunt almost exclusively with my 7mm. Best of both worlds of the 7mm-08 and the 7mm rem mag. You get the benefits of both in the short mag
@@nickb8618 I agree. I’ve had my .270 Win. Remington model 700 for 25 years and it’s my go to from the safe. I have a 6.5 model 700 tactical that’s fun to shoot but I haven’t got a long enough range near me to really stretch it out. I’ll find a place eventually.
I’m my opinion these cartridges are more similar than dissimilar in practical application. Shot .308 M40 in the military and own a Sig cross in 6.5cm. Love both rounds due to relatively light recoil, affordable, available and both very versatile. With the right bullet and good shot placement you can hunt up to elk. Ask Randy Newberg he thinks so too. My first recommendations to new bolt gun owners can’t go wrong.
I’m up in BC Canada and for my hunting and target needs I have chosen the 22-250 , 6mm Creedmore , 6.5 PRC and a 7 PRC. I’m looking forward to your Shot Show episode! Also look at Manners Composite Stocks. They have a new hunter stock with ARCA rail
Purchased a Tikka T3X in 308. Getting 3-4 MOA with all ammo types. Went to sportsman’s and purchased multiple brands of 308. I’ve remounted me scope, swapped rings, made sure everything was torqued to spec, checked to make sure stock was mounted correctly. Can’t find any issues with the crown. So bummed out. Everyone loves Tikka and I happened to get the one rifle that has terrible accuracy.
“I’ve given birth… I can give a bigger push than that” got me ROLLING 😂
I saw this comment before watching the video and was wondering how this phrase was going to come out of his mouth. +1 for the Emily cameo!
Here to say the same thing haha that was funny
I've been shooting 7mm-08 for years as it is a good compromise between the two. I push a 162gr ELD-X with 0.631 BC at 2700 fps. Slightly more efficient than 6.5 143 ELD-X but better frontal area and weight. Can always make lighter bullets scream too. Love the round
Although I usually use my .308, I can attest to the fact that the 7mm-08 is an excellent round for deer hunting (as well as other forms of game). I bought one for my wife back around 85 and we both love it. Since I have the .308, I cannot picture getting another 7mm-08 for me since I can use hers if I choose to. She has it in a Browning BLR.
Agreed. 7mm08 just does everything better except during ammo shortages. Love that round. Would have one if I didn’t already own a 30-06 and a 308.
Good content…I’m taking the .308 if I had to chose between the two for a hunting caliber.
I agree with you 100%, especially for Moose and Elk.
Yeah with the slightly larger diameter plus the heavier bullets I’d take the .308 over 6.5 in almost any situation
At this point in my life it comes down to what I want done with the least recoil.
@@brileytaylor7619 Diameter and weight don't translate into energy. The 6.5CM is a better round. The further the target, the larger the discrepancy in power and accuracy. After 300yds the .308 isn't even in the same ballpark.
@@philonetic321 You said it all when you mentioned "target". I dropped a bull moose in Ontario with my 99 savage .308 1 inch from the heart,he reared up did a 180 and dropped dead! the proof is there in the .308, you may not have shot as many big game animals as i but i will stick with something that ive seen work many times over! never tried eating targets and dont plan on it.
It may have been mentioned in a previous comment but the one main advantage to a .308, in my opinion, is that it is a nato cartridge which makes ammo and components a little more common.
Yep, the main reason that I selected the .308 over 6.5. SHTF use case.
Exactly you can buy cheap bulk fmjs and shoot all day
There’s shooting all day and then there is shooting accurately all day. ;/
@@therevoman the only advantage the 6.5 has over the .308 is long range accuracy and thats it.I can reload my .308 ammo for 50 cents a round,my mate reloads his 6.5 and costs him 90 cents a round. Go figure. Go and buy a 20 round box of 6.5 creedmore $68.00 off the shelf-a 20 round box of .308 is $35.00. I know what id rather be spending my money on and that is the .308 anyday. 6.5 cm will not take down all our game here in Australia, the .308 will take down anything we have in Australia. A 6.5 cm would bounce off a northern territory water buffalo,a .308 will stop it dead in its tracks. Again the 6.5 advantage is only for long distance accuracy and that is all.
@@Healthliving1967 I was referring to the cheap FMJ’a available in .308. There isn’t yet an equivalent for 6.5mm. Last time I tried the cheap FMJs they seemed to be 1” at 50 yards but I couldn’t get mine to group well beyond that
This has been your best and most informative video yet. Every time I get tempted to add a 65CM to the collection I get pulled back to the idea of a new gun in the same tried and true 308 I’m already invested in and know. I think the biggest thing most people overlook is how far you need to shoot to really see a huge difference between the two. Most shooters don’t go out to these long distances that often.
Agreed. I have both, but I rarely use my .308 anymore now that I live out west. 2 years ago I went hunting and we had extremely strong winds, and it was far more noticeable on the .308. I still use the .308 when I'm hunting on a river or when I don't have to worry about crosswinds as much. It's totally dependent on what you are shooting and where you are at.
308 has one major advantage not often talked about, being chambered in rifles that aren’t just meant for precision. 6.5 makes better long range cartridge especially at the 800 and really the 1000 yard and beyond mark. 308 excels in the “Battle rifle” area where a 16” barreled semi auto comes into play. From kicking in doors to sitting on the roof top acting as a DMR out to 800 yards just isn’t something you see with guns in 6.5 like you do in 308.
It’s also hard to beat the commonality of 308. It’s been a NATO standard round since it was created. There are 2nd and 3rd world countries full of surplus 7.62X51 and the rifles that shoot them. Parts of Africa you see FAL’s and G3’s still in use. I’ve bought brass cased surplus 7.62X51 in the 40 cents a round price range before, and bought steel case 308 as low as 28 cents a round.
Granted steel case isn’t anything like federal gold metal match but as a higher volume shooter who will put 200-500 rounds down range at a time twice a month being competitive at times with 556 prices plays a big role. In just ten months of shooting I fired 4200 rounds of 308 through just one of my rifles chambered in that. That’s almost double the barrel life of what most people agree on for 6.5. You also see much more non-precision barrels in 308 that are built with durability and longevity in mind paired with acceptable accuracy vs to top of the line accuracy. FN warranties the Scar 17 barrels in military service for a life span of 30,000 rounds shooting M80. Military acceptance standard is 4 MOA, which is more than most people find acceptable but 4” group at 100 yards shooting 147 FMJ after that many rounds shows something.
That’s the beauty of a cold hammer forged chrome lined 4140 barrel plus the ammo is cheap enough where you could actually shoot that much. Then you get into hand loads which can range from the 125 grain to the 225 grain bullet weights which really can make it a do-all cartridge if someone is dedicated.
3 MOA FM 3-22.9
A year ago I was stuck between buying a .308 or a 6.5, and well the biggest thing for me was availability of ammo. Here in Western Pa, .308 was the most common one to find. So that’s what I went with, and I’ve been very happy. I bought a Tikka t3x lite and it’s my preferred hunting rifle. I’ve shot two deer with this season, and both dropped immediately.
I’ve heard some great things about tikka rifles
I agree as a fellow Pennsylvanian. I see .308 on the shelves all over, but Creedmoor not so much. Plus pricing plays a factor too.
Thanks for the comment. Looking at Tikkas for the wife and deciding between the 2 cartridges. I think .308 is the way to go. Problem is the tikka I want is only available in 20 inch barrel and I want the 24 which they have in 6.5.
I’ve shot multiple deer with both and you’re correct. The .308 kills faster for me too. It’s not a weak cartridge on the top end either. As a hand loader I can get Velocities and performance that equals 30-06 factory loadings from my .308 and we all know how many Elk have fallen to 30-06. Makes the .308 a very versatile gun. When I want coyotes I dig out my .243
I’m about to start hand loading myself. Main reason why i wanna hand load is because of exactly what you said, in regards of making hand loaded 308s perform as a higher cartridge.
@@gjmarkjesse1324 you will be pleased with the results you get re loading the .308
@@TheBamayaker yeah I can’t wait. To get started on that. I’m still getting a 6.5 CM though. Saw a deal on a Daniel Defense 6.5 upper, couldn’t pass it up.
@@gjmarkjesse1324 6.5 in the AR platform would be cool.
6.5 is a good cartridge, but the 308 will always be my pick. It gets the job done. I’m actually getting it in AR form, ammo is everywhere!
I debated these two cartridges with myself for awhile. Ended up sticking with .308 when i bought a new bolt gun. Reasons were its, cheaper, more available, ballistically not too much different within hunting ranges, and interchangeable with existing semi auto. In a word, mostly logistics. Having a fancy cartridge doesn't do any good if you can't find it, cant afford it, and can't use it in anything but the one gun. As for performance: Cow elk, 460 yards, Federal 180 grain jacketed soft point. Hit the animal twice on the right side, I found both rounds just under the hide on it's left side. Seems to work well enough for me.
Both are excellent cartridges, both will do basically the exact same things. Both have advantages over the other. But when it comes down to nut cutting times most people are going to and probably should choose the 308.
It’s cheaper to shoot, meaning can shoot more often. It’s cheaper to reload, the range of available projectiles is greater, it’s easier to shoot subsonic if needed (but not nearly as efficient as a subsonic 300blk).
The 30 cal just works across the board. I *LOVE* the various 6.5’s, my first two rifles ever were both Arisaka carbines that I had inherited. 6.5 has literally taken ever game animal that walks the earth including elephants.
But if I had to pic a single cartridge to own and know I could almost certainly walk into any Walmart or gun store to buy ammo that would work on southern white tails or elk or even moose, it’d still be a non-magnum 30cal, probably a 308 or 30-06, honestly it’d be the -06.
308 is ballistically superior at reasonable hunting ranges if you look at gel tests.
6.5 is now widely available and is no more expensive than .308. Check midway. .308 in the same cart is often more expensive than 6.5. Hornady Whitetail, for example.
@@TheChiconspiracy It carries more energy under 300-500yds depending on weight, that's the only ballistic advantage. After 500, 6.5 has the clear advantage in accuracy and effect on target. But you're right, most hunting and combat is all under 300yds so it really doesn't matter for most. They would need to be a fairly seasoned marksman for the differences to even matter to begin with and most have never shot 1000.
@@philonetic321 It's also a wider bullet, and the ballistics gels test show a SUBSTANTIAL damage improvement over the creedmoor within ethical hunting ranges. At 500 and beyond, even with a skilled shooter and ideal conditions, your typical deer or elk can easily take a step forward by the time that middling creedmoor gets there.
I have both and the thing with the 308 is that you have to know its capabilities and limitations as well as your own. Yes, the 6.5 is flatter shooting but again - know the caliber's capabilities and you will be fine. The 308 was a sniper round for a reason!!!!!
I'm going with 308, I'll never shoot that far that often to need 6.5 performance. And 308 is cheaper and more available.
A balanced approach to what can be a decisive topic.
I like the idea mentioned in the comments that the cartridges compliment each other. I went with the .30-06 for its excellent versatility, especially since I handload, but if I hadn’t chosen the ‘06 and I wanted a thirty caliber, the .308 would likely have gotten the nod.
I had a 6.5 CM, but I sold it because I didn’t care for the rifle it was in, not because it was a bad cartridge. I keep toying with the idea of getting another, but it’s difficult to justify since a Weatherby 7-08 came to town. 🙂
love my 7-08 yes have.308 too like you had a 6.5 cm but sold it to buy weatherby 25-06 but do have 6.5x55 swede
That was supposed to read, "a divisive topic." Damned autocorrect .
I have owned my Remington 700 in .308 for 18 years and have harvested many deer w it. None of them have ever ran from where they caught lead poisoning.
Good video, my preference in the short action would be the 7MM-08; similar recoil to 6.5 creed for medium game (deer/black bear etc) with 139gr bullets. When comparing cartridges of different diameters you should always be comparing bullets by the Sectional density, not bullet weights (this is the penetration effectiveness), so realistic comparison would be 6.5 in 130gr (.264 sec. density)/7mm in 150gr (.266 sec. density)/308 in 175gr (.265 sec. density); its the only proper way to compare bullets of different diameters, if case/powder supply is similar and you go by weight only then physics dictates larger surface area(.308 vs .264) for pressure to push on will always give more velocity for the bullet and at closer ranges say 300-400yards, energy will be more as energy calculation favors velocity as its squared and at closer ranges the BC's don't do much for you, but this is not a fair comparison as the 308 in similar weight bullet will not retain energy well or have same penetration potential as the same weight 6.5 or 7mm bullets. 7MM-08 is more versatile, can shoot 130-139gr comparably with more energy and similar sectional densities to 6.5 for deer but can shoot up to the 175gr with better performance then the 308 with 175's if desired. Just my 2 cents. Lol, your Wifes dig on the 6.5 with her being able to "Deliver" with more "Push" was Hilarious, glad she enjoys contributing to your content.
YES the 7mm-08 “IS” far better superior over the 6.5 Creedmore for hunting Moose and Elk.
I would only pick the 6.5 for competition. For hunting , 308 Win without a doubt. Recoil is still manageable by ladies. I have just got my hands on a Beretta BRX1 in .308Win with 22.5" barrel and it's a piece of cake. Very easy to shoot.
Nice video . I think the 308 is amazing for hunting . I only hunt whitetails and black bears , and with the right bullet , I would not hesitate to hunt moose or elk with it . When I hit a game animal with it , sometimes I swear it is a 300 magnum ! I usually go for a lung shot , and the spray cloud upon exit is unbelievable ! Of course, you have to be selective about distance , and I rarely have to shoot beyond 200 yards , and 95 percent of the time , most of my shots are less than 100 yards , do to the terrain that I hunt in in the North Eastern United States , which is very thick and mountainous . You should have Emily's input in more of your videos !
Agreed. A lot of these UA-cam channels have a Western bias. These numbers for 400 and 600 yards are meaningless for Northeast hunters. No place to shoot prone or off a backpack here. No one carries shooting sticks. Likely don't even have time to rest against a tree. All my shots are off-hand. Like you say, that limits shots to less than 200 yards. .308 is ideal here. I can see Western guys wanting flatter shooters though for that environment. However, Randy Newberg gets it done with a .308.
Just cost alone for the 308 is reason let alone the energy and impact at 300/400 . I'll stick with the well Tested and true 308...
The only advantage .308 has is the availability of cheap, not so great, steel case and similar ammunition. Once you get into match ammo the cost is virtually identical between .308 and 6.5
@@BJE0719 I bought 50 unprimed brass casings in .308 PPU brand for $25.00 new. Good quality brass and 1/3 of the price of Winchester, Remington, starline,lapua,jagman.
@@BJE0719 A box of 20 rounds of .308 winchester factory ammo is $35.00 -a 20 round box of 6.5 cm in Winchester is $68.00 factory ammo, thats almost double the cost bloke so i dont know where you are getting your prices from but your wrong.
@@BJE0719 Well, there are crates of m 80 ball that groups at 1.6 MOA available for 60 -80 cents around. 7.62x51 is interchangeable with .308. The little Creedmoor round is not NATO of course so either way you pay more for a round that's only better for paper punching past 400 meters. You can find .308 in ANY shit hole in any country in the world so....
@@Healthliving1967 idk what/where the creedmoor ammo your buying but I'm getting it for $33 a box deff not $68
1:53: "Putting up with a rifle's recoil is just like dealing with labor pains in childbirth." Never heard that one before.
Here's the difference:
I'm at a Mom and Pops store in Ruralsville, USA. They'll have .308 ammunition on the shelf. If I were to ask for 6.5 Creed, Pop would lean over, spit out his chew, and say.... "Only what you see on the shelf."
Most Pops that I visit have 6.5 creedmoor rifles and ammo available, and they are wise to do so. If they don’t, they won’t be around long.
how was your trip back to 2008?
Not entirely incorrect. On most shelves there will be both, but especially during the recent ammo-apocalypse one will have significantly more variety than the other, and at significantly different prices. Even in places like Academy the available 6.5 CM was basically limited to premium ammunition, where as 308 was on the shelf in multiple boxes from different manufacturers & at various cost levels. Even from the same company on the same product line there has generally been several dollars difference between the two. And plain Jane 308 150gr Core-Lokt will still kill deer and elk inside of 300yds.
Both are fine, both work, get both, shoot both.
That’s all well and good just remember that in over half of the country the predominant cartridges are going to be 30-06, 270, 308, 7mm Rem, & 300WM. Move out west and those 5 cartridges will swap around a bit & one or two might be replaced with a different magnum, but still they will hold in the top 10 even in the mountain states. As such most dealers and most manufacturers will still have those rounds in production during a slump. As good as the PRC & CM cartridges are, and they are truly fantastic, they will be shut down before those 5. Simply put there’s more existing rifles in them than the new 6.8 Western, any of the new CM/PRC’s, etc.
@@soonerfrac4611 That is the only single reason I'm going to add a .308. I hunt with a .270, but the ammo's lack of variety and favoritism among the old timers/country folk like me means when people start to panic buy, .270 is completely out of stock and it takes months for them to catch up. As you said, .308 is almost always available.
Ballistic Soap is what it’s called it deforms on impact but is not spring like. It is use to measure the temporary wound cavity in ballistic testing
I think another merit for the .308 is that, while both cartridges can get away with short barrels, .308 can get away with the shortest between the two. 20 inches is what I like to see for 6.5 creed but I’m content going as short as 16 inches with .308
I think it was Applied Ballistics talking about this in 308. You lose around 100fps for every 4 inches of barrel you chop off. So from 22 to 18 or 20 to 16 there is only 100fps difference. Also I think it was either at 16 or 18 inches you start to see a drop in acceleration.
I am a high-velocity/light bullet guy and love 6.5 CM. Perfect for feral hogs, antelope, whitetails and even yotes with 90g varmint bullets. High BC 6.5 bullets carry much more energy at longer ranges. I think 308 is overkill for what I use them for. I sold off my 308 and now shoot (and reload) 6.5 Grendel, 6.5 CM and 260 Rem.
I have watched a number of your videos to help me narrow down my choices for a new rifle purchase. I settled on a Weatherby Vanguard in .308 Win. New subscriber here. Thank you!
Welcome! Thanks for watching the vids. You'll love that gun. Threaded barrel?
@@backfire Yes and fluted! I got a great price on a First Lite series VFN308NR6B. It is not in hand yet. I just purchased at the end of last week awaiting shipment to FFL. Matching it with an Athlon Argos BTR 6-24x50.
I have both. And hunting up north. I hardly ever get a shot over 200 yards. So i always find myself reaching for the 308 in the gun safe.
I draw blood with the .30 cal and I brag about groups on paper with my 6.5. Both are important functions, so I need them both.
You have it in a nutshell. That's exactly what I do.
I absolutely love the versatility of my 308. I can reload 110 gr bullets for variety and plinking, then I can go up to 165-180 for big game hunting. I've yet to need a second round to put anything down. And I guess I'm not one that jumps on a band wagon every time something new comes out. Recoiled don't much matter to me. I barely notice it with my thumb hole stock. And the biggest point I bring up is if your hunting some odd place 308 ammo is always there if you need extra. It's one of the few calibers I've never had to search for ammo for. Unless maybe you're looking for a very particular brand or gr. I'm sure the 6.5 is nice but the recoil tests you shown had a big bullet gr difference. The 150-167gr bullets are really pretty light recoil. When you get close to 180 with the 308 you start feeling it more.
1:42 - "I've given birth and I can give a bigger push than that!"🤣🤣🤣
The wife “Just take the recoil isn’t it kinda fun” lol, that’s great
I dislike both cartridges because there are better tools for the job but, I would pick the .308 because of the large variety of bullets that can be loaded into the case. Both cases are inherently accurate. That said, you can't go wrong with either. If I had to pick, it would be the .308. FYI, I don't own a rifle in either cartridge because I think there are better tools for the same job in my environment. Great video and comparison.
It can also be a generational thing. My Dad's generation loved 30.06. I became a fan of .308 and picking up an M14 and earning my marksmanship badge first try in the Navy 30 some years ago. My son? Loves his 6.5.
100%
Thanks for wadding into this topic. I stuck with 308…however really we should all have both!
Obsolete and obsolescence are two different things. 308 MIGHT be a bit old in the tooth but it's still a highly accurate round, using modern gun powders, with a long barrel life. There's a ton of reasons to continue to use 308 even in 2023. Until 6.5 creedmoor becomes cheaper per round than 308, I will probably not get a 6.5. I know they're great - I just don't feel the need to replace my cartridges. We like to pretend that a 10% better cartridge is enough to completely switch over for. Even a 30% better cartridge might not be better enough for me to switch to.
I like both I'd get a battle rifle in 308 and a precision rifle in 6.5 creedmoor.
Good news, 6.5 is cheaper. Has been for the last 5 years, off and on. That argument never actually held water. Check midway. Hornady whitetail and others, .308 is more expensive. Both are still overpriced but you can find boxes under $30.
@@philonetic321 Yep. I've seen 6.5 cheaper for a while now. And that minor cost difference isn't enough to get me to buy one. In the woods and mountains, I'll never have a line of sight to need a 6.5's distance, so there's no logic to choosing a round that doesn't hit as hard.
@@Swearengen1980 They're almost identical under 300, wouldn't notice a difference on target.
I think a better comparison would have been the 150 grain in 308 versus the 143 grain 6.5 CM. 308 wins hands down. That said, I own both because I can. I would hunt everything from whitetail to yotes with the 6.5, and Bear down to yotes with 308. Good video to generate discussion at deer camp. LOL
Always use comparable sectional densities. The point of comparison is to see how 2 cartridges stack up on one function.
YES a BIG MISTAKE by him, he should have used a 150 grain 308 bullet instead!
I've been shooting 6.5mm for 15 years and .308 for much longer. On the ballistic charts the only place that a .308 150 grain bullet beats a 140-143 grain 6.5 is at the muzzle energy and retained energy out to about 75-80 yards. After that the time of flight, drift, drop, velocity and energy are all owned by the 6.5.
Life has become more complicated. When I started hunting owning one rifle was a luxury. You had to choose carefully. The 30-06 was considered the best all around choice along with the .270. You shot rabbits and squirrels with a shotgun usually a single shot 12 or 20. My first .22 was a single shot Winchester 67 with iron sights. I got really good with that rifle at taking small game and with a lot less money. All ammo was expensive so you learned how to shoot or there was nothing in the pot! Marketing has gotten better and better at convincing us that more is better and in essence turned us into what buys. That trend continues. The themes are bigger, badder, faster, lighter, less recoil and the look. Truth is the old 3006 is still a viable choice that you can walk all over America with and with the right bullet selection shoot anything out there. Look at the 6.5 Creedmoor the industry is starting to move away from it and there are new challengers but the 3006, .270, 7mm mag , .308 and the .22 lr just keep on taking game. I nothing against long range shooting and many enjoy it. Marketing is king of the gun world. Hell you can’t go hunting unless you smell like something other than yourself lol.
7mm-08 gives the best of both worlds. Especially when you hand load for it. The higher BCs like the bullets used by the 6.5 Creedmoor but the larger bullet size giving more frontal diameter like the 308. That is just my opinion though.
Thank you for the informative video. After watching it, I decide to pick up my first precision rifle in .308, just to get something cheaper and harder to shoot at the beginning and switch to an easier cartridge later to appreciate the recoil, bullet drop improvements
I would rather just for for the 6.5cm from the get go - I did a 308 first, then 6.5cm and I kick myself for not moving sooner - take the money you would have spent on a 308 and get 6.5cm reloading gear or just pay for the ammo - :D
Or start with a 22lr or 223. Need much less range to get similar ballistic effects and practice. Plus they’re a ton cheaper.
The superior ballistics comes at a price. The Creedmoor is a barrel burner.
@@THall-vi8cp if I'm shooting 2000 rounds thru the creedmoor, it means I'm shooting a lot and will always be happy to just replace the barrel :D
@@Muddyfox47 I guess we all have different priorities. I'd rather spend the cost of a barrel on ammo and shoot more. I suppose it also depends on what we want to do. I have no intention of participating in PRS matches or any other shooting competitions, so I'll be happy of I can just keep my groups under 1 MOA within the cartridge's effective range. A good 308 can do that.
6.5 Creedmoor has made my 270 and 243 obsolete. That’s why they’re in my two nephews hands now.
My 308 can handle 200 grain Accubonds and 185 grain Lapua Megas, plus my 168 Barnes which is my standard.
I only shoot 120 grain GMX in the 6.5, so I don’t consider it in the same category
Just got a begara 308 and it shoots amazing- very little recoil.
I've been thinking of getting a bergara 308. I already have a 300 win mag with them - I LOVE it.
So did i. 18.5" barrel. Run subsonic suppressed. Super quiet.
great content great topic: it is awesome to see an influencer finaly tell the truth about 308 vs 6.5cm and not really try and push 6.5cm. personally I'm .308 nutz it is awesome. I use it for everything don't have a care for 6.5CM, it just ain;t got that umph to me. 6.5cm is good for the range and target shooting long range targets, but for hunting or anything else really I will stick to .308
I have a few 243’s set up for smaller deer. With the copper mandate I’ve seen more 2 shot kills. I wish I would have went 308 now.
I have both. I love both. I love guns. I think each have their place. I don't understand why this topic is still so hot, but it is. Thanks for your time and great video.
I will get my first rifle in 6,5 mostly because I am going to spend a lot of time practicing to start off. I'd even prefer a .223 but that one just does not come with the power for hunting. The only huge flaw I can see is the super long barrel with a suppressor. The mostly shorter .308 barrels for hunting rifles make very nice handling packages and even take away some recoil.
If money is a factor for you, the 6,5 is probably more expensive to practice with. At least here the cheap ammo for both is about the same price for 40 bullets 6,5 vs 50 bullets .308.
In Australia the 308 can be nearly half the price of 6.5cm and available everywhere while 6.5 can be less so outside major cities. Also 308 is legal for our most popular deer to hunt, the Sambar deer while 6.5 is not. And we make a good 308 here which helps.
Howdy mate! A brother from America TEXAS to be precise. Question can you'll have guns my understanding they took all your guns 30 years ago. Just want to know why do you allowed it
@@Casca-su3ty we just cant have semi auto and auto, rules tightened for handguns. Otherwise each state is mildy different but we can definatly have guns. My state i can even have a black powder cannon. The "aussies lost all guns" is used by americans alot. Our rules would not work for you and vise versa. Safe hunting and happy shooting buddy
@@bestestusername crazy because black powder in America isn't even considered a Gun the same as other cartridges like a 9mm, 556 etc. Convicted felons lose their right to guns here and yet a lot of them can still own black powder guns because of the technicality between them. always interesting to learn about other countries.
I've been shooting .308 for business and pleasure for 30 years and I've never really fell into the caliber trap that most manufacturers try to draw people in to.. That being said it was a rare instance when I stretched it past 600 yards. Most of my hunting shots are within 100 yards and while in training for police marksmanship work we stayed within 200 yards and stuck with the AR in 5.56 or 7.62 or a bolt gun in .308. I've never found a new caliber that would improve the performance of the .308 within the parameters we inherited. Now if I was out west where a 200 yard shot is point blank then maybe I would look at the 6.5 or better yet the 7mm PRC.
In the west my dad shot a Pronghorn Antelope at 338 paces (about yards) with 150 grain handloads in “308” with his Winchester model 88 lever-action.
pick the right high BC bullet, and 600 yards is not unreasonable for good terminal performance out of a 308win
Short answer? NO. Long answer? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
First. 308 for life!
308 don’t burn up them barrels .
7mm08 all the way. Fantastic blend of both. 7mm08 caribou on down and backs up 300WM for elk trips.
It is a shame the army did not neck down the 308 to 7mm and adopt the 7mm 08 back when. It would be a difficult battle to unseat that one especially if it would have been established as the army/ Nato round. 6.5 creedmore would not stand a chance against an established 7mm 08 Nato round.
1:48 "I mean I've given birth and I could give a bigger push than that".... Most savage burn I've heard in a long time ctfu. Bravo.
as you go to shot show, the one question I really want to know is "it chambered in 7PRC"? That's my next rifle and I'm considering whether to go with something from a semi-custom manufacturer or do a custom rig similar to what you've done. Unfortunately, some of the rifles I'm most interested in have yet to be chambered in 7PRC.
Yes, please find out if Bergara is going to build rifles chambered in 7 PRC this year! 😎 Maybe even do a survey for the interest in 7 PRC and share the results with gun manufacturers not yet on board in chambering it.
We need to know if Tikka are going to do a 7PRC.
308 for efficiently putting game on the ground. 6.5 for target shooting at longer on range Saturday, then take an 8 point buck Sunday. I went with 7mm-08 because it is right in between
Sir, I noticed that whenever you compare ballistics of the .308, you usually choose a very heavy for caliber bullet like 178 gn. But the .308 is constructed for 150 gn projectiles (or 168 gn at best). It's best weight to velocity (=energy) ratio being with 150 gn projectiles. This would be a much better "apples to apples" comparison, especially in this particular case IMHO. So why such heavy bullets in your ballistic charts?
Cheers, Kamil
exactly! I like both calibers and would hunt with either one of them. 308 is substantially cheaper in my neck of the woods too. I reload, so the cost fact not an issue for me.
Police snipers use 168gr, military uses 175gr.
@Logik Bomb Thanks for this info, but for hunting bullets (especially of the monolithic full copper type) rather light for caliber projectiles are recommended.
Snipers might have their valid reasons for using heavier bullets (BC, penetration etc.).
Cheers, K.
Great review. Nice that you stick to the facts and cover many aspects of ammunition. However, for most shoots that shoot under 300 yards, there is no difference, and for new shooters, cost is really important.
I had this dilemma for my first precision rifle and I picked .308 in a bergara wilderness HMR. I love the thing. Recoil is nothing with a little bit porky of a rifle, i can shoot most every animal in North America as long as it’s within a reasonable range. Later on I’ll pick up more of a lightweight 7 mag or something for backcountry hunting but I’m still a beginner and I mostly wanted a bench gun cause that’s where my main interest is. The HMR fit the bill perfect! A bench gun you can take hunting if needed.
My exact thought process and even brand choice! Sweet!
excellent job. you covered it all. I love the 6.5 but own a 308. not feeling a need to buy a 6.5 with the cost of ammo.
The 6.5CM just doesn't really check any boxes for me. Maybe if I wasn't already invested in components I may consider it but if I want more juice than my .308, I go to a 300WSM. I don't really see a 6.5CM filling or bridging a gap in between .308's and bigger/faster cartridges.
Nice! Your analysis answered all the questions I had about the differences between the 2 cartridges. Of course, a year later I think the price gap has significantly narrowed between the 2. In fact, at my local gun shop you can't sometimes find the 6.5 Creedmoor for a bit less than the .308 by the same manufacturer. I'm trying to decide between the .308 and 6.5 Creedmoor stepping up from .223/5.56. I think your presentation has influenced me to side with .308.
The answer is…No because from 300 yards and closer which is normal deer hunting ranges the .308 is just better and more factory loads available at cheap prices
Lite hunting rifles in 300 WSM 7MM PRC 6.5PRC...who will have new models? Thanks for bringing us great content, love your channel.
The .308 is not obsolete. The 6.5 has its niche and is not going away either. I think they actually compliment each other in some ways.
I’m thinking of adding a 6.5 Creedmoor bolt gun for my next rifle. It would be for long range shots. I have a Diamond Back in 308, but it’s more of a self defense gun being it’s a pistol with 13.5” barrel.
The 308 will become obsolete if the 6.5 becomes cheaper and if the barrel life improves
i think they’re best to be used in conjunction.
@@solar7927 I don't see either happening. Ammo same(ish) price for brand name hunting ammo maybe. But surplus? How ? Is any military adopting it?
Agree. Love my 15lbs target .308 for paper but also love my Creedmoor for deers up to 300 yards.
I just picked up my 6.5 Creedmoor Savage Apex Hunter 110 the other day. I won it in a raffle!
I’m currently using a 300 savage model 99 that was my grandfather’s (for deer). Such a great shooter! 308 replaced this cartridge and would be my choice when I decide to replace. For elk I use a 300 Winchester mag and been very happy. Love the shows!
Perfect deer gun
I love the savage 300. But bullets are hard to find and so expensive.
My .308 m1a is my favorite rifle because I love the recoil impulse
6.5 seems to be more expensive where I've seen it. It's also harder to get
Love my 6.5. Does everything I need for my style of hunting. Although I'm looking for a quarter bore, and keep hoping manufacturers roll out the 25 Creedmoor or a 25 prc. Might be a good question for the manufacturers at shot show🤔
Good review. I was with you up to creedmoor being more versatile. Most guys don’t buy a hunting gun and run match competitions with it. Or other way around. I do agree that creed is a better target cartridge. On killing elk, see Randy Newberg on elk and 308. He’s got a garage full of elk taken with one.
6.5CM produces 1,500 ft-lbs of energy for elk-sized game out to 510 where the .308 is already drifting 6-8 inches more than the 6.5. Push up to 600 and the .308 is dropping nearly 30 more inches and drifting 10. The 6.5 is already surpassing the .308 in energy just after 250yds where they equalize in energy at around 1900lbs.
Results of USASOC-US Army joint testing;
The .308 M110 175gr goes trans at 760m and subsonic at 980m. Energy at 1000m is 456ft/lbs.
The 6.5CM 147gr goes trans at 1100m and subsonic at 1460m. Energy at 1000m is 676ft/lbs.
USASOC conclusions of 6.5CM over M110 .308; 6.5CM doubles hit probability at 1000m, 33% increase in effective range, 30% increase in energy on target, 40% decreased wind effect, decreased recoil.
❤well working in a store with a gun shop I had a choice of any rifle and caliber. I passed up the 6.5CM for a Sako S20 in .308. It’s a great rifle and the .308 is a very versatile caliber. I’m using Federal Nosler Partition in 150 grain and it is a tack driver! I went with sensible not sexy!
Sir, the 308 is both sensible AND sexy.
It‘s actually balistic soap and not ballistic wax.
It’s really awesome to compare the reaction of different bullets hitting a target.
After shooting at the soap, you cut it open in the Center and can measure a lot of different parameters (for example penetration, largest diameter of cavity, distance till reaching this diameter). With some skill you can even measure the volume of the cavity by filling it with liquid before cutting it open.
Greeting from Germany
Vielen Dank
Cool👍 not sure what to do with that but someone might. Hang tuff over the brother. The people aren't the gov.
You write English better than most Americans lol. Nice job!
Always enjoy your content. Ever since your video on 9mm handguns and really enjoying Matrix Arms.. ...I hope you stop by and record information about their products at the show.
Will do!
Slight Ballistic advantage and lower recoil of the 6.5 is great for longer range, for light game and range work. But for general all purpose hunting (in South Africa), 308 all day long. I own both. They are a ‘fit for purpose’ decision. BTW once suppressed, recoil difference is negligible.
Seems to me .308 is still ideal for reasonable hunting distances. As you say my .308 Tikka with a suppressor is very light recoiling.
Light game... 6.5CM produces 1,500 ft-lbs of energy for elk-sized game out to 510 where the .308 is already drifting 6-8 inches more than the 6.5. Push up to 600 and the .308 is dropping nearly 30 more inches and drifting 10. The 6.5 is already surpassing the .308 in energy just after 250yds where they equalize in energy at around 1900lbs. USSOCOM chose 6.5CM as their intermediate sniper round for its ability to penetrate barriers. That might tell you something.
Great video showing pros of each round. I love my 308 and I like my 6.5 but that depends on what I’m doing. Hunting I’m 308 all day but if shooting for the fun of it and doing long range 6.5 all day. Now Jim you mentioned elks and no 308. Whys that I would think you’d like it over the other but would like the personal thoughts on it
Both cartridges excel at their intended purposes the 308 is a better hunting cartridge and the 6.5 better at target shooting. At the distances where the 6.5 surpasses the 308 the energy is usually inadequate for larger game. If your only buying one gun (who does that) split the difference and go 7mm-08. There really isn’t much of a debate.
Spot on.
6.5CM produces 1,500 ft-lbs of energy for elk-sized game out to 510 where the .308 is already drifting 6-8 inches more than the 6.5. Push up to 600 and the .308 is dropping nearly 30 more inches and drifting 10. The 6.5 is already surpassing the .308 in energy just after 250yds where they equalize in energy at around 1900lbs. 7mm-08 is a better round up to 500 but is also hard to find and more expensive than either. Its performance also drops off like a rock after 500. 6.5 is nearly as good as .308 to 250, it's nearly as good as 7mm to 500 and is superior to either one after 500 in energy and ballistics. It can hunt and then some. I'm having a hard time seeing why it's not the smarter buy of the 3.
You mentioned many valid points for both. However in the end the 308 will become obsolete if no one wants to shoot it anymore. I doubt that the 6.5 is going to convince us 308 owners to drop it.
I've seen people use massive clay blocks to demonstrate expansion of rounds. Would look awesome in super slo mo!
.308 for hunting for me. I'm ex-military so have had a bit of real world experience with this round. I'll leave the 6.5 for the latte drinking 1,000 yard crew 🙂
Latte drinking? Not gonna say anything about hairstyles? I'm not going to knock the .308, but your endorsement don't mean much to me if your choice is motivated by style rather than substance.
@@stevenfischer9772 how about this then the 308 has more kinetic energy and leaves better blood trails of the creedmoor since you just want facts 1 rifle was designed more for punching paper and 1was designed more to kill things
@@garyk76 There you go! An argument based on inherent qualities of the cartridge! See Simon, it's not that hard.
@@stevenfischer9772 but I honestly see whoever use them shoot the 2 they the most accurate with because a 308 does have more recoil than a creedmoor and not everyone can handle recoil the same
Latte drinking, like USSOCOM. Cool story.
I like 308 for shorter range knock down power. Shooting a sick cow on the farm it is better to use a 308 168 gr than a 270 in 130gr bullet. Both are effective but that frontal mass of 30 cal makes a difference.
6.5 is better if you want a dedicated deer rifle that will shoot a little better with less recoil.
308 is better in every other catergory. Can shoot 200+ grain bullets at super or subsonic speeds. Can shoot 115grn copper bullets over 3100fps. I also completely agree with the frontal diameter being far undervalued in killing ability.
Speaking of wearing out a 22 barrel. I completely eroded the Chamber of a Ruger Mark III and the gun was replaced at a discount by ruger. It took about 100K rounds to do it.
I shoot a .308. Enjoyed it for years and I reload for it. Don’t need to chase the new cartridge.
My next purchase maybe a .300 WSM for elk.
Appreciate this video. It was well done. I like the .308. I don't mind recoil and I am a price conscious. If I was 50 pounds lighter and a lot richer, I'd be thinking about the 6.5. For now though, a .308 guy.
It would be interesting to hear developments in night vision for hunters. There have been some price drops will they continue? What new?
Yes I would love to know!
Great to see someone giving an honest review on these two calibers. Well done!
I think 308 wins versatility. East of Mississippi River
Availability and price aside... when I talk to local dog trackers who work during deer season and they tell me that a majority of the calls they get now are for tracking whitetails shot with a 6.5 creedmore, that's enough for me to make a decision.
It looks like a7mm08 would be a compromise in between 6.5 and the 308 but it probably cost more if you don’t reload
It really should be more popular. I have a 6.5 and 308 due to availability. Functionally I’d prefer the 7.
I have one and would recommend against unless reloading. You're probably paying $0.25 /round more.
solid breakdown
The problem with the 6.5 Creedmoor is that you have to buy it in a specific configuration and shoot it at long range in order to justify it; It has to be a long barrel rifle that is accurized with a high quality scope, and you have to shoot heavy ~145 grain bullets and they have to be match grade, and you have to shoot at 700 yards and beyond.
If you change anything in that equation the .308 becomes the better option. Not to mention that people hunt really big animals like Bison with the .308. I don't know if I would try that with the 6.5 Creedmoor.
Also, the difference between the best bullets for both calibers is not as big as you might imagine, e.g. with the Hornady 6.5 creedmoor ELD 147 grain you get 307 inches of drop at 1000yards, while their .308 168 grain ELD drops 321 inches; thats only 4.5% difference.
Not really. I'm spamming at this point but too many of you have failed to look at the results of USSOCOM testing of 6.5 family of carts and why they chose to adopt the 6.5CM. 6.5CM produces 1,500 ft-lbs of energy for elk-sized game out to 510 where the .308 is already drifting 6-8 inches more than the 6.5. Push up to 600 and the .308 is dropping nearly 30 more inches and drifting 10. The 6.5 is already surpassing the .308 in energy just after 250yds where they equalize in energy at around 1900lbs. USSOCOM chose 6.5CM as their intermediate sniper round for its ability to penetrate barriers and the fact that is carries 30% more energy at 1000. That might tell you something.
USSOCOM (U.S. Special Operations Command) found that, as compared to flat-footed .308 (specifically M118LR, the military’s best long-range .308 load), 6.5 Creedmoor doubles snipers’ hit probability at 1,000 meters, increases effective range by at least a third, increases energy on target by 50%, reduces the effect of wind by 40%, etc etc.
Here we go; Since USSOCOM uses DoD specific loads not for public use, let's compare some normal factory loads; "For this, we’ll use Hornady’s ELD-X projectiles loaded in Hornady’s Precision Hunter ammo. That’s a 178 grain .308 Winchester and a 143 grain 6.5 Creedmoor.
• At 1,000 yards, the .308 drops 372.1 inches. The 6.5 drops 319.8 inches. That’s over 16% more drop with the .308.
• At 1,000 yards with a 10 mph, full-value (perpendicular to bullet travel) crosswind, the .308 drifts 77.6 inches off course. The 6.5 drifts 62.6 inches. That’s 24% more wind drift from the .308.
• At 1,000 yards, the .308 is still trucking along at 1,287.2 fps. But the 6.5 is doing 1,492.7 fps.
• While the .308 goes transonic at about 1,100 yards, the 6.5 doesn’t get into that slipping-out-of-supersonic-and-becoming-unstable territory for another 200 yards still. Predictable accuracy out to at least 1,300."
@@philonetic321 Yes I agree. All of the calculations I have done show similar results.
You simply have to shoot heavy match bullets out of a long barrel in 6.5 Creedmoor to justify it.
The moment you decrease the weight or change the bullet design to something like a soft point, the 6.5's ballistic performance falls squarely withing .308 ballistic performance. Which means it drops and drifts the same, but has less energy and impact area.
B.t.w. Check out Hornady's 168 Superformance .308, it has incredible ballistic performance.
The best 6.5 Creedmoor I know of is Berger's 144 grain. It shoots like a laser.
There is also one interesting thing to consider: .308 has access to some very high BC bullets, higher that anything for 6.5 Creedmoor. Of course they require a long action and longer magazines than standard .308 Winchester, which means a custom rifle.
Some of those projectiles allow the .308 Winchester to remain supersonic to almost a mile.
@@vincentwood7036 That's some good info. Thanks for taking the time, I'll try to remember it.
BF can you do a review on rangefinding binoculars? Leupold bx-4 range hd, vortex fury, Leica geovid, etc
Everyone I know says with the 6.5 creedmoor deer don’t bleed enough but my question is are they just using the wrong bullets
Yes, they are using too heavy of a bullet 120grn too 130grn is perfect for deer when the high sectional density 140grn is used it is way too much bullet, and stay within .230 to .266 sectional density and watch DRT. The heavy 6.5 bullets of 140grn should only be used on heavy game like elk. The bullet can get a chance to expand, I found this to be true with most calibers, so stay within .230 or or .266, the .270 or above elk, the 6.5 bullets punch way above their weight, and this is why you see these problems pop up and go even lighter when it comes to the copper bullet 100grn to 120grn they pass through just about every time unless they find bone, I found the 129IL by Hornady very profound game stoppers, The Hornady white tail hunter if a person does not reload, hope it helps it sure works good for me, aim small, good hunting, GOD bless.
I started hunting 48 years ago with a .308 in a Rem 600 and took truckloads of caribou with 150 grain bullets. Really good killing power and I used it to 300 + yards with very good results. The 6.5 C is something I have just started using and absolutely love shooting it. I can see the bullet impact at 150 yards or more and as I am often solo hunting I really like this feature. At 500 yards it hits with better energy levels than my 25-06 and I think for caribou and sheep I am going to be well served. Looking forward to playing with this round.
Good topic. Making your wife shoot a 308 w/o a sight on it with as many rifles and scopes you have was ridiculous. You failed to mention why the 308 is cheaper...... Military round. Unless the 6.5 Creedmore gets adopted my military it'll never be cheaper to shoot. Ballistically they both work great. It's hard to beat a bigger, heavier bullet. Momentum matters.
It was adopted by USSOCOM years ago. It's already cheaper than .308. Check midway, hornady whitetail and other factory loads, .308 is more expensive.
I love my 308 and have taken 2-3 deer and a pronghorn with it and only had it for a few years but I can’t argue with its performance from 100yds - 400yds. I shoot a 168 grain copper bullet.
I think you’re choosing a weird 308 load. A 178/180 is really out of the wheelhouse of that cartridge. Sure you can stuff it in but it’s not optimal. A 150 grain monolithic is the ticket in 308 for hunting, the Barnes TTSX factory load does 2850 fps, and the new Sig copper loading does 2900 with a 150. Those are elk bullets and the velocity puts them in their expansion window out to 400 yards conservatively. A lot of my buddies shoot whitetail with the 130 grain TTSX that thing is like a little magnum at close to 3200 fps.
180 grain Nosler Partition is what I use for deer in 308 Winchester. Works really well.
Agreed. A 165 or perhaps lighter and those number swing even more in favor of the .308.
~Is that 150 grain monolithic 308 a “all copper” alloy lead free (no lead).??
~I have seen 125 grain in 308 and 30-06 but not 130 grain.
I use 165 and take bear and elk with it, I'm sure a 150 or a 180 would work equally well, I like the 165 because that's what I get the best accuracy with.
he chose the 178gr because it is the factory Hornady ELDX loading to compare with the 143 ELDX factory 6.5CM load.
That said... if you handload, and have a 1/10 twist barrel or faster, try a heavier/Higher BC bullet. Push a 200gr ELDX or Terminal Ascent bullet to 2550 FPS at the muzzle in a 22inch 308win, and that thing is still well over 1500 foot pounds of energy and nearly 1900fps at 600 yards. For bullets that are designed to open up down below 1600fps, that is well within their optimal terminal ballistics threshold.
i recently bought a barret mrad. in 338lm caliber. i also bought a 24 inch 308 barrel. it has a 1 in 8 twist and iv been playing with the new 200g sierra. [2231]loaded long 3.100. the mrad is perfect for this load. long action and fast twist. very high bc @.715. my velocity is 2500. its puts the supersonic range on par with the 6.5 creedmoor. im debating whether i need a 6.5 anymore.
I’ll pick the 7mm08. Kind of the best features of both the Creed and 308 in one fantastic cartridge!
Ammo is more expensive than the 6.5 and 308. Ammo is also harder to find than the 308 and 6.5
@@nickb8618 yeah I haven’t seen 7mm08 on the shelves in a long time. I agree it’s a great round though.
@@kwiturbitchin5277 agree it is. That’s why 20 yrs ago I wanted a short action 7mm but kinda wanted the magnum so I went with the 7mm wsm. Not a popular round but the 7mm wsm is phenomenal. My other rifles sit in the cabinet gathering dust and I hunt almost exclusively with my 7mm. Best of both worlds of the 7mm-08 and the 7mm rem mag. You get the benefits of both in the short mag
@@nickb8618 I agree. I’ve had my .270 Win. Remington model 700 for 25 years and it’s my go to from the safe. I have a 6.5 model 700 tactical that’s fun to shoot but I haven’t got a long enough range near me to really stretch it out. I’ll find a place eventually.
@Nick B
Don’t disagree on factory stuff, but that’s why I reload everything. Availability means nothing to me, thankfully!
I’m my opinion these cartridges are more similar than dissimilar in practical application. Shot .308 M40 in the military and own a Sig cross in 6.5cm. Love both rounds due to relatively light recoil, affordable, available and both very versatile. With the right bullet and good shot placement you can hunt up to elk. Ask Randy Newberg he thinks so too. My first recommendations to new bolt gun owners can’t go wrong.
I’m up in BC Canada and for my hunting and target needs I have chosen the
22-250 , 6mm Creedmore , 6.5 PRC
and a 7 PRC.
I’m looking forward to your Shot Show episode! Also look at Manners Composite Stocks. They have a new hunter stock with ARCA rail
Are you able to find 7PRC ammo in BC? I haven't seen any yet
None yet, The rifle is being built by Insite Arms in Lloydminister. Through their connections and some other I’m anticipating some around Summer 🤞
Very nice, I may also go custom. Good luck, hopefully you can use it next fall!
I used a 6.5 for whitetail this year but next year I'll be back to a 308. No comparison got me at 250 yards and in
I’ve hunted with both, 308, hands down better for hunting at normal ranges.
Agreed
Purchased a Tikka T3X in 308. Getting 3-4 MOA with all ammo types. Went to sportsman’s and purchased multiple brands of 308. I’ve remounted me scope, swapped rings, made sure everything was torqued to spec, checked to make sure stock was mounted correctly. Can’t find any issues with the crown. So bummed out. Everyone loves Tikka and I happened to get the one rifle that has terrible accuracy.