Putting Lots Of Fat In The Freeze Dryer. A LOT! -- Responding to Anti Fat Comments
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
- Responding to some of the anti fat freeze drying comments. Some of the things said over and over are simply NOT true! Freeze dried food with fat in it (a lot of fat), can last for more than 30 YEARS!!! Start reading the labels on freeze dried food bags.
(Stop washing your ground beef!)
Want to support this channel? Buy me a coffee :-) www.buymeacoff...
Scrambled Eggs with Bacon
mountainhouse....
Ground Beef
mountainhouse....
Creamy Macaroni & Cheese
mountainhouse....
Veggie Chorizo Breakfast Scramble
mountainhouse....
Dried Whole Egg Powder
augasonfarms.c...
Freeze-Dried Beef (100% Real Meat)
augasonfarms.c...
Freeze Dried 1/3-lb Uncooked Hamburger Patties
freezedrywhole...
There are plenty of scientific and industry papers out there about food rancidity, and I've found them to be very interesting and informative;
Chemists define roughly two ways a product can turn rancid: (Super simplified)
1. Oxidative rancidity: Reaction involves oxygen
2. Hydrolytic rancidity: Reaction involves water
(The main mechanisms for it to go rancid involve water and/or oxygen, (and light) and we remove them all)
Rancidity of Food: Introduction, Types, Factors and Prevention of Rancidity | Food Chemistry | Biotechnology www.biotechnol...
Food spoilage - Rancidity and food chemistry. September 14, 2017 Storing Food - chemical reactions, fats, food enzymes, preservation foodcrumbles.c...
Prevention of Hydrolytic and Oxidative Rancidity and Nutrient Losses in Rice Bran During Storage digitalcommons...
Rancidity www.sciencedir...
Functions of Rosemary Extract in food and its labeling. www.nutexa.com...
Use of rosemary extracts as a food additive efsa.onlinelib...
Water Activity (aw) in Foods safefood360.co...
Books:
Freeze-Drying of Pharmaceutical and Food Products ISBN-13 : 978-0081014646 (I don't have this one yet - haven't seen a good price yet)
Foods and Food Production Encyclopedia ISBN-13 : 978-1468485134 (got the paperback set for a great price)
Want to support this channel? Buy me a coffee :-) www.buymeacoff...
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As an Amazon Affiliate, I earn from qualifying purchases from the links provided. By clicking on the links, you can explore the products and tools I use.
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PackFreshUSA
We have been buying oxygen absorbers and 7 mil Mylar bags from PackFreshUSA since early 2018. During all that time (1000's of bag and oxygen absorbers, and about 6 year before before we added this affiliate link) we have been happy with the products and service we have received from them.
I earn from qualifying purchases from the links provided. - packfreshusa.c...
Use the discount code "SchoolReports5" to get 10% off your first purchase when using the link.
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Harvest Right - If you are thinking of buying a freeze dryer, please consider supporting us by purchasing through our link. It helps us and costs you nothing!
affiliates.har...
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Before buying a freeze dryer, perhaps research to find out more about the downside of the machine; some people have problems with their machine and it's big and heavy and hard to return!
Want to support this channel? Buy me a coffee :-) www.buymeacoffee.com/DanZm
AFFILIATE LINKS & REFERRALS - I earn from qualifying purchases from the links provided
───────────────
As an Amazon Affiliate, I earn from qualifying purchases from the links provided. By clicking on the links, you can explore the products and tools I use.
www.amazon.com/shop/schoolreports
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PackFreshUSA
We have been buying oxygen absorbers and 7 mil Mylar bags from PackFreshUSA since early 2018. During all that time (1000's of bag and oxygen absorbers, and about 6 year before before we added this affiliate link) we have been happy with the products and service we have received from them.
I earn from qualifying purchases from the links provided. - packfreshusa.com/?rfsn=7877576.a54e2a
Use the discount code "SchoolReports5" to get 10% off your first purchase when using the link.
---------------------------------------------------
Harvest Right - If you are thinking of buying a freeze dryer, please consider supporting us by purchasing through our link. It helps us and costs you nothing!
affiliates.harvestright.com/995.html
───────────────
Before buying a freeze dryer, perhaps research to find out more about the downside of the machine; some people have problems with their machine and it's big and heavy and hard to return!
Scrambled Eggs with Bacon
mountainhouse.com/collections/breakfasts/products/scrambled-eggs-with-bacon-pouch
Ground Beef
mountainhouse.com/collections/freeze-dried-meats/products/ground-beef-10-can
Creamy Macaroni & Cheese
mountainhouse.com/collections/vegetarian-meals/products/creamy-macaroni-cheese-pouch
Veggie Chorizo Breakfast Scramble
mountainhouse.com/collections/vegetarian-meals/products/veggie-chorizo-breakfast-scramble-pouch
Dried Whole Egg Powder
augasonfarms.com/collections/eggs-dairy/products/dried-whole-egg-powder
Freeze-Dried Beef (100% Real Meat)
augasonfarms.com/collections/meats-proteins/products/freeze-dried-beef-100-real-meat
A couple of the Mountain House videos:
ua-cam.com/video/OzOvsDVL_Q8/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/TWmFCX40BQc/v-deo.html
There are plenty of scientific and industry papers out there about food rancidity, and I've found them to be very interesting and informative;
Chemists define roughly two ways a product can turn rancid: (Super simplified)
1. Oxidative rancidity: Reaction involves oxygen
2. Hydrolytic rancidity: Reaction involves water
(The main mechanisms for it to go rancid involve water and/or oxygen, (and light) and we remove them all)
Rancidity of Food: Introduction, Types, Factors and Prevention of Rancidity | Food Chemistry | Biotechnology www.biotechnologynotes.com/food-biotechnology/food-chemistry/rancidity-of-food-introduction-types-factors-and-prevention-of-rancidity-food-chemistry-biotechnology/14100
Food spoilage - Rancidity and food chemistry. September 14, 2017 Storing Food - chemical reactions, fats, food enzymes, preservation foodcrumbles.com/food-spoilage-rancidity-and-food-chemistry/
Prevention of Hydrolytic and Oxidative Rancidityand Nutrient Losses in Rice Bran During Storage digitalcommons.lsu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=7859&context=gradschool_disstheses
Rancidity www.sciencedirect.com/topics/agricultural-and-biological-sciences/rancidity
Functions of Rosemary Extract in food and its labeling. www.nutexa.com/en/2017/11/16/functions-rosemary-extract-food-labeling/
Use of rosemary extracts as a food additive efsa.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.2903/j.efsa.2008.721
Water Activity (aw) in Foods safefood360.com/wp-content/uploads/Water_Activity_In_Foods.pdf
Moisture Content and Water Activity ua-cam.com/video/-LiSankbfSk/v-deo.html
Water Activity in Foods ua-cam.com/video/zqutTpEURMk/v-deo.html
Water Activity of Foods | Food Technology Lecture ua-cam.com/video/oZpXisYAltU/v-deo.html
Books:
Freeze-Drying of Pharmaceutical and Food Products ISBN-13 : 978-0081014646 (I don't have this one yet - haven't seen a good price yet)
Foods and Food Production Encyclopedia ISBN-13 : 978-1468485134 (got the paperback for a great price)
Here is the list of Freeze dryers I've heard of: (If anyone knows of any others, please add to the list) (as of July 2023)
harvestright.com/ (only one I've used) All the others might be great, I've just never tried them.
p4lfood.com/ "The Cube" Same machine as the 4Patriots one? (Facebook page only a few months old?)
4patriots.com/products/4patriots-home-freeze-drying-system - Maybe built by Prep4 Life?
stayfreshfreezedry.com/ - One person start-up import business? (Judging by the corporation papers listing a home as the Registered Address)
www.cuddonfreezedry.com/products/ - Big - Probably not really a home unit. At least 20 times bigger than medium HR
wmmachinery.com/products/freeze-dryer-for-home-use - Lower priced. Shipped direct from China?
www.labrotovap.com/portfolio-item/large-home-freeze-dryer-lyophilizer-for-sale/ - Knockoff? Even used some of Harvest Right web page photos.
www.usalab.com/freeze-dryers/ - Two models? Do they make or rebrand.
freezedryco.com/equipment/food-cannabis/ Freeze Dry Company - more commercial
www.hudsonvalleylyomac.com/stratus-mp3-series-floor-model.html Hudson Valley Lyomac - not really home size units
d-freeze.com/ D-Freeze - Not out yet, being built in Canada
www.freezedryfood.de/en/ FreezeDry® German
bluealpinefreezedryers.com/ Blue Alpine Freeze Dryers - Idaho - Very new/Start-up - Looks very promising! (If I were buying one today, I'd look into this one)
Remember, I'm just another idiot on the internet. Don't listen to me. I could be wrong. Research. The #1 joke at our house is "But, I saw it on the internet!" Consider looking at what commercial companies are doing. That's where I look to for guidance. If they can do it, we probably can too. (with method adjustments)
Because I am here for help, because I have money invested in this machine. I want to do it right. I trust this guy, he is methodical.
One of the MAIN reasons me and my husband love your videos is that you are informative and no nonsense and honestly you are one of the most believable you tubers that we watch. We appreciate your time and things we learn from you!! Keep doing what you do!!! Also, RoseRedHomestead is a lot like you and she teaches a lot of science and facts as she has a science back ground as a professor for the University of Utah. By far you two are the ones we look to for how you two do it!! Thanks again!!
I couldn’t agree with you more!!!
I love RoseRed too for the same reasons!
Thanks a lot!
@@nanmaco I hate that happened but I have watched her for years and she is normally 100% on.
Spot on, I have learned far more here than all the other channels combined, Thanks Dan!
How is this channel not bigger??? It’s sooo informative! Thank you so much for your knowledge and expertise! I hit the like bottom on everyone I watched! I am a loyal fan!
Thanks a lot for watching and commenting.
You have delivered a master class on freeze drying from beginning to end and anyone who can't see or appreciate that has way bigger problems than freeze drying. Glad I found you and glad you have maintained your integrity and sincerity instead of selling out and pushing products or click bait for views. Hope you have a great day!
I agree Florida Man! I'm an engineering student and love freely available information. I'm tired of proprietary and secret info people push. Dan is our man. I appreciate you putting time on these videos for the next generation to benefit from! Love you brotha!
Thanks!
I love all the science evidence based education you bring us - and with just the right amount of entertainment (tshirts, dad jokes). I encourage everyone to weight check for dryness. YOU’RE ENTIRELY AWESOME!
That’s exactly what I like about you! I’m not here to be entertained but to get the facts! You are one of my favorites, for everything Freeze Drying. I know I can trust you because you are very methodical and are not afraid to admit when you aren’t sure about something but just that it has worked well for you. I am happy for you doing this video because I am one of those who, early on, have asked about the safety of freeze drying food with fat in it. There is a lot out there about it, and I’m pretty new at FD’ing!
I wouldn’t bother with meat that I have to rinse all the fat and flavor, as well as nutrients out, with boiling water. Thank you, thank you ! Can’t wait to watch the rest of your video! Keep doing what you’re doing, we love you! ❤
Retired Professional Chemical Engineer here. I like your style and value your content. Thanks for the information on fat. I think the key is to make sure our food is truly dry. The technique of continuing to dry until weight change is undetectable at 1 gm per tray resolution is very valuable. It takes much longer ( typically ~50 hours/batch) than the machine indicates, but I’m not in a rush.
Yes. Freeze drying is science, not microwave cooking.
I agree completely about the weighing to determine being dry. If you are in a rush buy the freeze dried food. Also the moisture meters that I've seen used are designed for wood moisture and hardly reliable.
Can you please take the time to do a video on weighing your trees before they go in and knowing from that when your food is properly dried?
@@jeannettelavoie9829 I'm sorry, somehow I missed seeing your comment. (sometimes YT doesn't notify me of new comments)
I show doing the _Dry Check_ weighing process in many of the videos, but I can try to do a video just showing the process. (added to my video list - thanks!)
Mixed Vegetables - Every Little Detail - ua-cam.com/video/lpa3db5al20/v-deo.htmlsi=IIcsuCGTtEG2aOQb
Oh man, I am so glad for this video. I love your videos (you replied on one of my comments I made about your repetitiveness on certain things and I appreciate why you repeat things! :) ) because of all the great technical info you provide. I learned about weighing my trays from you and have led others to your channel as well because of it! I will definitely stick around all the way to the end and likely comment again! LOL!
Thanks!
I am so glad you have taken the time to tell the rest of us the facts. I really enjoy watching your videos. You are so clear in making points and demonstrating how to do each thing. Thank you so much!
I've wondered and been so confused about this because of the fact that you can freeze dry cheese, heavy cream, ice cream, nuts etc... all have a lot of fat. I will not rinse my meat! That is absurd. Thank you for this. 👍
Exactly! Sometimes a person will say, in the _same comment,_ how the 5% fat meat needs to be washed, and then say how they freeze dry eggs, which are 50% fat!
If they're going to wash the life out of it, they might as well use tofu. (and I'm not sure that's food)🤣
And, as always, remember, I'm just another idiot on the internet. I could be wrong. The #1 joke at our house is "But, I saw it on the internet!" Consider looking at what commercial companies are doing. That's where I look to for guidance. If they can do it, we probably can too. (with method adjustments)
just at the beginning of your vid, and just wanted to say that while you will never win entertainer of the year, that is why I am drawn to your vids...
there are a lot of us that aren't idiots and dont want to watch a new version of a idiot box on youtube.
in fact it ticks me off when i feel like i am being lied to and there are many channels i have left, because of these facts...
now that being said, i was never worried about some fat, as while fat will go rancid, it dont tend to unless there are other tings in it, wich there are, OR if there is alot of fat for it to touch alot of other fat molecules, and it is stored in substandard conditions.
these are not provable, but only my observations.
i make soap and have never had my oils go rancid (which i would use for soap for home cleaning, as would be fine for use other wise, as is what our ancestors did, but i cant get myself to.) even when stored at high and substandard temps... they will go off, as in not the same, taste different, but will not cause illness as rancid, say bacon grease, can...
another thing i wonder about is animal fat vrs plant fat that has been extracted with chemicals, that are not true far or even fully fat, like corn, soy and canola
wich btw, your ice creams are often full of... i cant wait to get a freeze dryer and do a experiment with store bought ice cream and all home made, no crap in it, and try them every 6 months for a few years and see how they weigh against each other
Thanks.
Home made ice cream vs commercial made would be a great experiment!
If anyone knows who Paul Harrell ison UA-cam, you could swear that this is his brother.
As always, great video.
Thanks. First time I've been compared to Paul Harrell, but I have been called "The Bob Ross of freeze drying" a couple of times! (I need to learn to talk faster on video like Paul!)
I've never had a chance meet Paul, but I have watched and liked his work for a long time. (and learned a lot) We are in the same state but hundreds of miles apart.
Love the no nonsense, and you have such a large amount of experience, I would trust your advice. Been watching for a long time.
Thanks! I'll have to go get caught up with yours, I hadn't checked since you first got your large up and running with the giant UPS.
@@SchoolReports Yeah, that UPS is a life saver, additional costs but sure is needed out here. Thanks again for the fact based info on fat. It will help me change up my thinking.
This was kind of an easy one - Read the package labels and then say - Hey everybody! Look! There is fat in these!
I was looking at getting a 30 amp UPS. They do not just give those away. 🤣 But if you need one like you do, it would be worth it.
Last I saw the issue with the oils is that they will go rancid, a process of oxidation ("Rancidification is the process of complete or incomplete autoxidation or hydrolysis of fats and oils when exposed to air, light, moisture, or bacterial action, producing short-chain aldehydes, ketones and free fatty acids"). Thus, remove the oxygen, stabilize the oils.
Exactly! Thank you!
Remove the oxygen, moisture, and light - stabilize the oils! So many people still think it's magic. Hard for something to oxidize without oxygen.
I appreciate all your videos and always look forward to them! Both long and short! 😂 You deserve way more subscribers than you have! Thanks for being so informative, and keep those videos comimg! Oh and by the way....... I got my shrimp when it was on sale...thanks to you... and its all freeze dried. Yay!! 😊 and I can't thank you enough for NOT making all those silly faces people do for their thumbnails. I have actually quit watching some channels because of that.
I JUST started researching freeze drying food at home. I haven't even bought anything yet. So, of course I took to YT. I've watched the channel you are referencing and heard them say you have to remove ALL fat to freeze dry. I asked myself, "Why can't I freeze dry fat???? I've been eating backpacking freeze dried food with fat in them for decades!" I noticed that channel just looked at the food and said, "It's dry so it's done". There must be some scientific way that will tell me besides just eye balling it!
Soooooooo glad I kept looking and found this channel confirming I can!! TY😊
Yep! If you're not checking , you're just guessing!
Thanks so much for watching and commenting.
WOW WOW WOW! Thank you so much! I have been concerned about the fat in my freeze dried meats going rancid because of people saying it would. YOU have done the research and bring proof to the table. I'm very grateful. Now I will FD meat without rinsing all the flavor out. Wish I had seen this sooner.
Thanks for watching and commenting!
To be fair, most of the research on this one was reading the labels on commercial freeze dried food bags and reading a few papers about food rancidity. (And testing my own 6 year old FD food)
I've always thought it odd that there is such a fear of fats in the freeze dried food. The commercial stuff has plenty of fat and I'd been using it for 45+ years with no ill effects!
Remember, I'm just another idiot on the internet. I could be wrong. The #1 joke at our house is "But, I saw it on the internet!" I look at what commercial companies are doing. If they can do it, we probably can too. (with method adjustments)
AMEN!!!!! I have been saying this same things for months and months. I have no problem with fats within reason. Thank you for posting this info!
I am late to the party, but really grateful for this video as fat has been a concern for me for long-term storage. i haven't even done any prepared meals in the fder for this reason! You have opened a whole new world for me. Thank you.
Thanks for watching and for commenting!
I thought it so very odd, since before we even got our freeze dryer, that home freeze drying people seemed to live in constant fear of anything with fats. Yet the commercial stuff has plenty of fat and I'd been using it for 45+ years with no ill effects!
The funny thing is that I get lots of comments about fat for every food I do that has ANY visible/known fat in it, except when I do ice cream or cheese or eggs! (or other foods with lots of hidden fats) It's like they can't read a label.
I appreciate your content and find your channel to be straightforward and informative. This is refreshing for someone who is looking for reliable sources of information. A freeze dryer is a significant purchase, and I am still on the fence. In my research, I have found much value in your videos. I prefer the "just the facts" style videos. So thank you for that.😊
I appreciate it too!
Yes! The Facebook groups are full of so much crazy misinformation- this is the best source I’ve found and the only one I pretty much watch every video.
Thanks so much for watching and commenting!
I don't want to dissuaded anyone from buying a freeze dryer, but I'd say don't get one if you're not really sure.
Another great video, THANKS again.. i know you dont watch most other peoples videos, ,but a great vid id from phil@ 4800, ( im not gonna post a link to sombody else's 'channel on yours) hes got a great video on 22 month old bacon
Thanks. I do remember seeing some videos from phil and that they were some of the good ones. I'll have to have my sister check it out and give me a summary:)
Love your videos. Facts will every time.
You referred this me to this link after i just watched you rehydrate 2018 tri ti. I have been wondering about those companies that sell bacon, steaks with obvious fat in them and i have been avoiding meats with fat since i got my freeze drier and i think of all the money i could've saved!! Thanks again for sharing your knowledge
Looking for meat sale now.😮
Thanks for letting me know that you made it over here to this video!
(This video _may_ have been made after reading one too many anti fat comment saying that I couldn't do what _I had just shown me doing!_
I'm just finishing making the next video showing rehydrating more raw beef from 2018 and some cooked beef from 2022. 👍 We just bought lbs of Tri Tip ($4.09/lb) and we're going to check tomorrow to see if they have more. Our personal preference (and always has been) is for the lower fat cuts of meat, like the trimmed Tri Tip, but we don't mind a bit of marbling.
So many foods that the anti fat people are freeze drying have a lot of fat, but the fat fearful seem to ignore it and focus on _any visible_ fat. (Or they don't know) Cheese, ice cream, and eggs, all can have more fat than beef.
Spam: Canned pork shoulder, Hawaiian's love the stuff. It 's a kind of compressed meat in a can. I detest the stuff, because we ate a lot of similar meat byproduct when I was a kid.
😁 Yes, we (my sister) have freeze dried Spam. Batch 574 - Sister's Turkey Spam & Canned Ham Slices - ua-cam.com/video/pZ2I1JtB6k4/v-deo.htmlsi=3n7TGcHJisP5Uc8R
The one commenter I was referring to in the video said that Spam "broke their machine." My question was - How did Spam break a freeze dryer? 🤣 I never found out.
Excellent video, I was suspicious of fat myself but I knew somehow it was unfounded. Good research!
Wow, lots of comments on this one! That commercial freeze drying of hamburger company I think uses a commercial size freeze dryer. I have a large and only 6 patties fit on one tray. I do lay them flat because I stack them double. So I can do 60 patties in one batch. I always do them raw. Would there be a benefit of cooking them before freeze drying?
I do not _know_ what machines they use but I can make some size guesses based of the photos. What the one patty picture shows should be exactly a large HR size tray - four 5" patties, touching end-to-end equals 20" and side-to-side with about a 1" overlap would be 9"; a good match for the photo.
When judged by the visible fat (or feel), raw burger patties even with 20% fat seem to do better than cooked patties even though some of the fat has probably been removed from the cooked patties. The raw patties don't have fat come out during freeze drying, but the cooked patties do, even though there is less fat. I don't worry too much about seeing the fat or not, I still know it's there.
I think (I don't know, so I'm guessing) that part of the problem with cooking and then freeze drying meats with the higher fat content is that the cooking squeezes (maybe not the correct word) the muscle fibers and they will no longer absorb the fats. The freeze drying process also shrinks the foods a bit more, pushing out more fat, and making the problem stand out more. The Muscle Behind Meat Science (Updated) ua-cam.com/video/1Y81LCtPzNE/v-deo.html Heat and Its Effects on Muscle Fibers in Meat blog.thermoworks.com/beef/coming-heat-effects-muscle-fibers-meat/
Any time we are freeze drying anything that might have any fat that might come out of the food, we line the trays with paper towels and also put paper towels over the food to help keep the fat away from the rack and chamber.
20% fat before freeze drying 40% fat after drying - Freeze Drying Hamburger Patties - Raw ua-cam.com/video/r_CWjR61Cd8/v-deo.html
Again 40% fat in the bag 4 1/2 years later - Rehydrating 4 1/2 Year Old, Freeze Dried, Raw Hamburger Patties ua-cam.com/video/gL_fUza_wfI/v-deo.html
Precooked 20% fat (before cooking) burger patties - Freeze Drying Hamburger Patties - Cooked ua-cam.com/video/mslcrp6d3dg/v-deo.html
The main mechanisms for the fats to go rancid involve water and/or oxygen and can be TRIGGERED by light and _accelerated by higher temps._ (cooking) We are already removing the water, oxygen. and light.
Cooked vs raw: In general I prefer to have as much of my stored food as possible already cooked and ready to eat, except for those we could eat raw anyway. That way - even if cooking or rehydrating later is not an option (for whatever reason) - the food would be able to provide immediate calories and nutrition.
Freeze dried raw meats need to be treated the way you would treat any other raw meat. Any pathogens the food might have can still be alive and well in the freeze dried meats.
Having said that, beef (steaks & burger patties), pork and salmon patties did just fine raw, sometimes better than cooked. Raw burger patties seem best when we want to grill burgers. Burger patties that are already cooked broke apart more often when freeze drying than the raw ones.
Do you have a video showing how you sanitize everything after raw meats?…specifically curious if you need to sanitize the line that goes from pump into FD machine?
Freeze Drying Your First 500 lbs of Food - Cleaning - Between Batch 25 and Batch 26 ua-cam.com/video/tLjLEB5pp9Q/v-deo.html I also bring the rack up to the sink for cleaning when needed.
Technically I would say that there is not a line going from the pump to the FD chamber, it's a line that goes from the chamber to the vacuum pump! 😁 The air should only be going one way - from the chamber to the pump. At least with the oil type pumps there is a check ball valve at the pump to prevent anything from going backwards. If I felt the need to clean the line between the two, I would remove the hose and clean it the same way I did the drain hose and then use a thin flexible brush to clean the fitting between the chamber and the hose connector. This would be a good short video for the future. Thanks!
It's because Spam has had the machine in storage all these years. They finally had to bring the machine back to start batch #2. Lol just kidding it's a joke I heard recently, given the shelf life.
Spam and Twinkies are forever! 🤣🤣
Have you freeze Dried Mild Italian Sausage or sweet Italian Sausage I would like to know if it works because I've heard hot dogs don't freeze dry well
My sister has freeze dried Mild Italian Sausage as cooked patties and as cooked crumbles. It seemed to do fine - would recommend using a lower tray temperature (maybe 110ºf?) and line the trays with paper towels and cover the food with paper towels.
I've only tried one hotdog - it was delicious, but messy. Maybe I'll try more later.
I have freeze dried cheese from a commercial company. It has fat. They have freeze dried ice cream. Where is the fat? This is why I love your videos, I feel like you tell us the truth, as best you know it. I have stopped watching other videos.
🤣 WHAT?! You got freeze dried cheese from a commercial company and it had fat in it?
But, I read on the internet that you can't freeze drying anything with . . . . Oh. never mind!🤣
I LOVE this video and have subscribed. Doing research before purchasing a freeze dryer. You may see your video views going up in the next few days. It'll be me! HA Thanks so much.
I know I'm commenting a very long time since this video, but do you know how much rosemary extract to use and how to apply it when freeze drying meats?
The companies using it are using it as one of the ingredients in the food. It's just one thing that turns out to be an antioxidant, like vitamin C. I don't know the science of how/why it's supposed to work, I've only read these papers about it.
Functions of Rosemary Extract in food and its labeling. www.nutexa.com/en/2017/11/16/functions-rosemary-extract-food-labeling/
Use of rosemary extracts as a food additive efsa.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.2903/j.efsa.2008.721
Other links are in the pinned comment.
I enjoy your videos and I’m learning a lot. Glad you don’t have those silly thumbnails 😊.
Thanks. And thanks for watching and for commenting! 😁
Just found your channel and followed for the information. Appreciate these types of videos. I want to see some freeze dried coffee recipes in the future or maybe you already did one?
Thanks for watching and commenting!
Coffee? Kind of. 🤣
I did freeze dry some Dutch Bros Coffee drinks for my sister. They were shorter videos and don't show every step, like the Dry Check.
Freeze Drying Dutch Bros Coffee: Dutch Freeze drinks - ua-cam.com/video/0SiqpD_snbU/v-deo.html
Freeze Drying Dutch Bros Coffee - Had a Power Outage - ua-cam.com/video/kfviZzlBG5Y/v-deo.html
Coffee was one of the first freeze-dried products to be marketed on a large scale. It's so cheap and good that I don't make my own.
This is by far my most hated video I've made (and my personal favorite video - it was fun to make:) Apparently some people can't take a joke; maybe they don't notice the video was put up on April 1st? - How We Do Freeze Dried Coffee - You can't do it better than commercial (or cheaper) - Why Try? ua-cam.com/video/gCRgz9TktmM/v-deo.html
I also tried freeze drying a sample of freshly ground coffee. It made the Worst. Coffee. Ever. (My son works roasting and grinding coffee - we always have very freshly roasted coffee)
Maybe I'll read up on how the big companies make it work and try again someday. I know they extract the coffee as a very, very thick liquid before freezing.
Hey great job. Iv done hamburger and wondered if it was going to go bad. Iv been drying for a while and only had two meals go bad. Spaghetti that wasn't completely dried.
Thanks for watching and commenting!
I'm probably a bit neurotic when it comes to water activity levels in the food for storage, that's why I do a _Dry Check_ procedure for every batch, every time.
Augason Farms sells freeze dried butter that’s approximately 50% fat
Thanks. Another great example of - things with fats can be freeze dried.
If commercial companies are doing it, we probably can too. (with method adjustments)
i love the details and watching your videos. I trust your knowledge and so i learn so much from you. i got my dryer working right now.
Thanks!
👍Very glad to hear yours is working; What ended up being the issue?
ROFL.."Where do people get some of their info"? rofl The internet of course..cause everything you read and hear on the internet is true right? rofl
For years the #1 joke at our house is "But, I saw it on the internet!" Obviously if it's on the internet it must be true. You know, the vetting process and everything.🤣🤣 Nowadays I might trust random things on the internet more than things from the main-stream media!
Remember, I'm just another idiot on the internet.
I appreciate you addressing this issue. I am looking into freeze drying, and this was a question I have had. I stopped buying Mountain House when they changed some recopies to gluten free and kept the names. They are terrible now and I lost all confidence in Oregon Freeze Dry. May they rest in pieces...
Thanks for watching and for commenting.
That's too bad to hear that Mountain House has done that. I haven't had any of those, as far as I know, but I haven't had to buy any for years. I do like all my own recipes better than theirs anyway:) I wonder when the gluten free fad will end.
Did you see my homemade vs Mountain House beef stew video? ua-cam.com/video/w_p5j5oyX5M/v-deo.htmlsi=MOvQoDGWPTzC-rEg
@@SchoolReports The change was around Mar 2020. Try the new gluten free Breakfast Skillet. It is terrible and the reviews since reflect that.
@@derf_the_mule1405 Thanks for the heads-up! I think I'll try to avoid the new ones. (Unless I need to for a comparison with my own versions)
Thank you for this! I love your videos. Just like I love Rose Red Homestead too because of all the real science and information. Sure, the videos can get long but they are full of so much information! I wish Harvest Right used your info instead of that other (LLS) guy. I can't take his videos at all! Keep doing what you do! So many of us that are serious about this are learning so much from you. Thank you for sharing with us!
Thanks you for continuing to watch and comment! I'm 6 years in and I'm still learning. I'll always look to what the 50 year old freeze drying commercial companies are doing. They HAVE TO get it right every time or they don't become an old company! (Next I'm going to add nitrogen)
I also enjoy watching Phil at 4800.
Ahhhh Thank You! I have learned so much from your channel. I have a freeze dryer and have hardly used it because of the fear of not doing it correctly. One of my issue is the fat. I have had so many packaged freeze dried foods, and often wonder how they get it so high calorie. How does pemmican last and freeze dried food doesn’t?
Thanks for watching and commenting.
Ha! It turns out that my big skill is the ability to read freeze dried food bag labels! 🤣 I've thought it so odd since before we even got our freeze dryer, that home freeze drying people seemed to live in constant fear of anything with fats. The funny thing is that I get lots of comments about fat for every food I do that has ANY visible/known fat in it, except when I do ice cream or cheese! (and I don't wash my ice cream either) Eggs are about 50% fat when dried and it seems no one has an issue with those! I only have about 6 years of personal experience with OUR freeze dried items, so I only KNOW it's good for about 5 1/2 years.
Remember, I'm just another idiot on the internet. I could be wrong. Research. The #1 joke at our house is "But, I saw it on the internet!" Consider looking at what commercial companies are doing. That's where I look to for guidance. If they can do it, we probably can too, and they have meats with 40% fat by weight, dry. (with method adjustments)
Commercial freeze drying companies HAVE TO get it right every time or they don't become an old company! Mountain House has been doing this for more than 50 years.
Thank you sooo much,, so informative,, freeze drying makes more sense now,,
Thanks a lot for watching and commenting!
The Bob Ross of freeze drying x I think your both blooming wonderful x thank you kindly x
Thanks!
And over here we'll have some happy little burger patties. . . . 🤣
Great video thankyou for sharing I happen to like the way that you make your videos and I like that you don't fill it with silly nonsense I tend to move along to another youtuber especially when people start singing the words :( why must people do that lol I really cringe ,,,,,, anyway Im here for all the helpful info so Thankyou :)
How would we go about using Rosemary extract to preserve our freeze-dried food?
They are using it as one of the ingredients in the food. It's just one thing that turns out to be an antioxidant, like vitamin C. I don't know the science of how/why it's supposed to work, I've only read these papers about it.
Functions of Rosemary Extract in food and its labeling. www.nutexa.com/en/2017/11/16/functions-rosemary-extract-food-labeling/
Use of rosemary extracts as a food additive efsa.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.2903/j.efsa.2008.721
Other links are in the pinned comment.
Yes would love a live stream any info. On freeze drying fatty type meat!
Thanks. I'm still trying to get caught up on things.
When we do our meats we do trim off any loose fat. (But this is mostly because we don't like the fat on our meat and would have trimmed it for any storage method) We don't really worry about little bits of fat and it has done perfectly for over 5 years now.
could the high sodium content in the mountain house ground beef have anything to do with the extended shelf life? It has a high sodium content.
I'd be surprised if it doesn't at least play a part. It wouldn't hurt and could help, however the eggs have the most fat and the least sodium.
The Mountain House Shredded Beef is 25% ft by weight (when dry) and is low sodium. mountainhouse.com/collections/10-cans/products/shredded-beef-10-can
Sir what settings did you use for doing your patties in the freeze dryer? Time, temp etc.
On my 2017 machine (with its old firmware, which I like and I'm not going to change), after the freeze time, which I set to 6 hours, it goes to the main Drying cycle which runs for up to 30 hours. I run almost everything at 120ºf. When the machine "thinks" it's dry enough (virtually every batch) it jumps past any of the remaining part of the 30 hours to the "Final Dry" cycle, which I have set to 11 hours. When that is done I do the _Dry Check_ process.
I think the "legend" of having to rinse and pour boiling water over ground beef to remove fat comes from backpackers making their own dehydrated meals. Fatty meat like hamburger had a very short shelf life if just dehydrated.
Could be. Having been on the freeze drying FB pages for 6 years, I know that this “fat fear” has really gained steam just the last 1-1.5 years. It is now beyond ridiculous! It wasn’t like this 5 years ago.
@@suejohnson1296 Do they every say why? (I mean with facts and/or data)
It's confusing to see comments by someone espousing the evils of the fat in rotisserie chicken (5% fat) in one post and the awesomeness of freeze dried eggs (50% fat) in the next!
I had at least one commenter say they can get the food more dry using a dehydrator than with a freeze dryer. 🤔 Even if that were true, it would be heating the fat in oxygen and moisture the whole time. Oxygen, light, water, and fat are not a good combination when it comes to preventing rancidity.
Canned refried beans doesn't have any added fat, at least the ones I've bought or the recipes I've used to can them.
@Debbie Paquin . . . my cans of refried beans have 2.5g fat per serving and the recipes I've used have bacon fat in them (about 6g fat per serving) . . . Yum !
You are NOT an idiot. We appreciate your intelligence, hard work, and research. You are our go to site for freeze drying. And we do find you entertaining.
Thanks!
I think the no fat thinking comes from dehydrating meat, because it can go rancid. Freeze Drying is a totally different way of preserving than simple dehydrating.
Could be! The only dehydrating I'd done was jerky, years ago. Yum. (The jerky never had a chance to get old:)
I'd always thought it odd that there is such a fear of fats in the freeze dried food. The commercial stuff has plenty of fat and I'd been using it for 45+ years with no ill effects!
Remember, I'm just another idiot on the internet. I could be wrong. The #1 joke at our house is "But, I saw it on the internet!" Consider looking at what commercial companies are doing. That's where I look to for guidance. If they can do it, we probably can too. (with method adjustments)
You’ve opened up a new world to me after being terrified the past two years of FD fattier beef. Sent you a week of coffee. Thank you!
Thanks for watching and commenting! (And thanks so much for the coffee!)😁
This was one of the easier videos to make - Read the package labels and then say - Hey everybody! Look! There is fat in these!
These are 20% fat by weight _before_ freeze drying and they have held up great so far. Rehydrating 4 1/2 Year Old, Freeze Dried, Raw Hamburger Patties - ua-cam.com/video/gL_fUza_wfI/v-deo.htmlsi=A12jYZydxbYwAEua
I've always thought it odd that there is such a fear of fats in the freeze dried food. The commercial stuff has plenty of fat and I'd been using it for 45+ years with no ill effects!
The funny thing is that I get lots of comments about fat for every food I do that has any _visible/known_ fat in it, but not when I do ice cream or cheese or eggs! (or other foods with _lots_ of hidden fats) Eggs have a lot of fat!
I only have 6 years of personal experience with OUR freeze dried items, so I only KNOW it's good for about 6 years. I assume that some foods will have a shorter shelf life; Mountain House only gives their ice cream bars a 3 year life span, and by way of comparison, has freeze dried ground beef that's good for 30 years.
I assume (without proof, because I only have 6+ years of data) that we should be able to get a similar shelf life for similar products. If we could get 50% of that I'd be happy. However, we probably don't have the exact same product, I'm sure they have spent a LOT of time and money to perfect their recipes, ingredients, and processes.
I'm a big advocate of rotating and monitoring my pantry of stored foods, so I might never have any that gets even 15 or 20 years old.
I've heard from a couple of viewers that said they were kicked out of freeze dryer groups for saying that some commercial freeze dried foods have fat, or that maybe they should check to make sure it's dry before bagging. (I think they said Face Book groups? I don't do those things)
I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, I'm just trying to show what I do and why, and show resources when I can.
🤣 I have to apologize for many of my older videos. Even I hate to look at them! They may be okay if you already know about freeze drying.
In my focus to keep them very short, most of my older, shorter videos are almost devoid of information! I tried hard to keep the videos down to less then 10 or 15 minutes, no matter what I had to cut out! (Like information!)
Remember, I'm just another idiot on the internet. I could be wrong. The #1 joke at our house is "But, I saw it on the internet!" Consider looking at what commercial companies are doing. That's where I look to for guidance. If they can do it, we probably can too. (with method adjustments)
Up until now I’ve limited my proteins to turkey/chicken breast and planned on adding fat later from canned Wagyu beef tallow. Tomorrow I freeze dry raw fatty hamburgers! Thank you 🎉
@@docspaugh Freeze dried, raw, preformed burger patties are surprising how dry and _non_ oily they feel. They feel like cardboard. I would suggest turning the tray temperature down to 120ºf or even 115º Freeze Drying Hamburger Patties - Raw ua-cam.com/video/r_CWjR61Cd8/v-deo.htmlsi=mKTUzKJHdu2XaOMl
Spiral sliced ham is awesome for sandwiches! (True of most thin sliced meats) Ham on the go - ua-cam.com/video/Y1Gea8bVZ50/v-deo.htmlsi=5DXjrl3hfrbO8D9v
I'm not sure how I missed this video when it came out. I wonder if those critical reviewers are confusing freeze drying with dehydrating meats.
WEll, it's difficult to get people to understand facts. Great Vid thanks
I laughed so hard at the figurative thumbnail picture! I loved that! My children heard me laugh and came to see what was soooo funny! 🤣Now to finish watching the rest of the video.
Yes, if I EVER use one of those thumbnail with the "You Won't Believe What Happened!" titles, you will want to watch that one! Even I can't imagine what it would be.
Yes! Those are always the worst and I scroll by. Love your channel!
I'm so glad you don't so the entertainment stuff which is not the reason I'm here.
Good Morning,
I don't comment very much here but as usual I have learned a lot again from this video. In fact you are my FD ing encyclopedia. If I want to know something I just check your channel out . Today's experiment here is tuna salad with miracle whip.
Keep up the great videos.
Hermit Out
(Merle)
Thanks!
(And how do you know it'll be the last time for plowing snow this Year?)😁
Really appreciate your common sense videos. I would like to know what brand of mylar bags you're using? I tried going back to your older videos and didn't see information on brand.
I put the following in the description of a lot of the videos, but it didn't fit on this one because of all the added reference links. (The description has a limited number of characters)
We have been getting our Mylar bags and oxygen absorbers from PackFreshUSA.com for years now and have been happy with the products and service we have received from them. - They are not a sponsor, we just like their stuff.
We get the 7mil bags, mostly the gusset bottom, seal top ones. These are the ones we get the most: The pint bag with OA's - packfreshusa.com/pint-seal-top-gusset-7-mil-stand-up-mylar-bags-sets/ Pint bags - packfreshusa.com/pint-7-mil-seal-top-gusset-mylar-bags-1000-wholesale/ Quart bags - packfreshusa.com/quart-7x-9x3-7-mil-seal-top-gusset-mylar-bags-1000-wholesale/ And these are the 2 quart ones packfreshusa.com/two-quart-7-mil-seal-top-gusset-mylar-bags-500-wholesale/ And the oxygen absorbers we use the most -300cc Oxygen Absorbers in 10-Packs (1000) - packfreshusa.com/300cc-oxygen-absorbers-in-10-packs-1000-wholesale/
What do you use to sanitize your machine after FD raw meat?
Good and fair question and my answer is a bit controversial here. But, nowadays, reading package labels that show fats in freeze dried food can be controversial! 🤣
For sanitizing the surfaces of our Harvest Right, I use with the method recommended by the FDA, and used by most commercial kitchens on their stainless steel surfaces for many, many decades, and is something I already have on hand. A weak solution of bleach. www.fda.gov/food/foodborne-pathogens/listeria-listeriosis "...sanitize them with a solution of one tablespoon of chlorine bleach to one gallon of hot water"
And, yes I am very aware of what it says in the owners manual. The anti-bleach verbiage is found in a slightly different location in each version of the owners manuals. I have downloaded all the available ones and read them cover to cover. I do find it interesting that they say to "use a mild detergent" and then fail to give any example. Why? Is it to give cover later if a problem arises? A "mild detergent" will not disinfect. Perhaps just soapy water is good enough, but I don't think so. The owners manuals also say to not use Benzene or "Thinner" for cleaning. I have no idea why anyone would consider using benzene (Nasty stuff - Do people really have bottles of this at home?) or thinner for cleaning and disinfecting - those aren't items used for sanitizing.
Bottom line - Each person needs to clean the way they think is best and in a way they believe/understand will keep them safe from foodborne pathogens. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, I'm just trying to show what I do and why, and show resources when I can.
Some people have suggested using vinegar, Star San, or iodophor. I've heard good things about Star San and may have used it once, many years ago, when making root beer with the kids, for a school project. The fact that it's so widely used in brewing and cheese making says great thing about it. (if you were running an organic production line it would still have to be rinsed to meet the definitions of organic, which doesn't mean much to me because I don't think that "Organic" is a real thing) EPA seems to classify both of them as sanitizers as opposed to a disinfectant. I don't know if it makes a difference for this use, but I don't have it and I do have bleach. When I see the *_data_* that shows me a better method, I'll switch.
Freeze Drying Your First 500 lbs of Food - Cleaning - Between Batch 4 Eggs, and Batch 5 Potatoes ua-cam.com/video/fQmK-0UIhcw/v-deo.html
Freeze Drying Your First 500 lbs of Food - Cleaning - Between Batch 25 and Batch 26 ua-cam.com/video/tLjLEB5pp9Q/v-deo.html
Freeze Drying - The Next 50 Batches - Cleaning Before Batch 561 - Drying & Rehydrating Hamburger ua-cam.com/video/8zUWQuffc5c/v-deo.html
I forgot to mention a bit about warranties. I tear apart almost everything I own and have fixed (and broken!) more things than the average person. 🤣 Mostly fixed, I'd like to think. 😇 In my whole life, so far, I've only returned one thing for warranty work.
Do I worry about the warranty?
The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act (P.L. 93-637) is a United States
federal law (15 U.S.C. § 2301 et seq.). Enacted in 1975,
A company must prove you caused the failure in order to void the warranty. The use of aftermarket parts or modifications alone is not enough. They can’t even require you to use their genuine factory parts unless they can prove to the Federal Trade Commission that they have the only part that will satisfy the manufactures requirement.
. . . the business denying the warranty must prove that the failure was due to the aftermarket component or improper installation thereof. If they cannot prove this, they will be responsible for repairing the product under warranty. (But, of course, they are not responsible for the modifications or any damage it's done.)
I for one would like to find the articles you read so I can understand better.
I'll put a few of them in the pinned comments and the description.
FD Wholesalers is a fly by night company that was started when the pandemic happened. I would not trust their info and their food will not last in those mylar bags. Their company was not a good point of reference for your argument.
Mtn house and Augesen farms-yes.
* Yes, I’m an experienced FD!r. 7 years. Still love your video’s, but FD Wholesalers was a bad choice for an example. 😃
I agree with you that it wasn't a good choice to use them as an example, and I should have stuck with only the longer term companies. Why add complication where it's not needed!. I don't discount a company solely due to being new. Unfortunately, by the time I finally found they had links to other things/businesses that concerned me, it was too late. And, the facts still stand even with them included; they don't have higher fat levels in their products than any of the other long lived companies.
@@SchoolReports , I totally agree with you on the fat content. I have FD’d heavy cream still put up from 2018 that I nitrogen flushed in 7 mil mylar with an oa added. I rotate & consume my food storage so I use my food stores quite frequently, but still have quite a stock ( 4 units) from 7 years ago. ( I didn’t start gas flushing till 2918. But it’s all still perfectly fresh. Same with my cooked and raw burger Pattie’s.
Now, I will say that I too know people that have had fails mostly because of poor packaging (Cheap Amazon mylar and/or clear window mylar) and both oxygen and moisture entered and caused rancidity.
Mtn House does in fact flush their packages and #10 cans with nitrogen, so that helps, but I have raw burger patties from 2016 that only has an oa and we’re vacuum sealed in 7 mil mylar and they were again, just like fresh. So you don’t need all the fancy equipment, it’s just personal preference for added security.
Thank you for always being very honest about your successes and failures. As a fellow long time HRFD owner, I very much appreciate your candor. Please keep making great videos! 😃
*** Please know that I was being sincere and not sarcastic regarding the FD Wholesaler situation. It also makes me glad to know that you did in fact go back and research them and their activity. I am in fact the individual who posted in the groups regarding the owner of that company claiming that he uses the same food grade nitrogen system (tank, regulator, cannula) that my business partner put together for mr, when in fact that system is not approved for use in any commercial kitchen, no less a Commercial Kitchen that FDA/USDA oversees for processing meat/poultry/ dairy.
@@kimmididwhat It's great to hear from someone that has used nitrogen flush on a non giant scale.
I assumed you were being sincere, as was I. I truly would not have used (or at least not so prominently) them as an example if I had found the location and pictures of their kitchen before I finished making my video. I had found enough to make me add those text disclaimers during the video. To call theirs a Commercial Kitchen may technically be true (and I'm not going to disparage anyone), it's a generous description when they try to give the impression of a major facility. I don't doubt for a second that it's inspected and that it's being used for commercial purposes. By definition a Commercial Kitchen.
Does Mountain House radiate the packages?
I've never seen/read anything that even suggests that they do.
One of the viewer has ". . . been in the Oregon Freeze Dry facility many times. . . " Maybe they know one way or the other and could let us know.
After watching your videos, I started feeling much more comfortable with the process of freeze drying my food. I learned from you how important it is to weigh my food before and when it is supposedly dry, then put it back in until it it is no longer losing weight. Now I feel like my food is properly freeze dried. Thank you for your videos!
I've been surprised again and again about the amount of water in "dry" things. Like the "dry" Minute rice that we did; that was a surprising amount of water.
Fact based scientific principles on You Tube????? Misinformation is rampant in our society, even in the freeze-drying community. By the way I love the T-shirts maybe one that says "Reproduceable Results fat haters!" As far as I'm concerned you can go as far down the rabbit hole as you want.
🤣 Sorry, sometimes facts just slip in. Oops!
Nowadays, reading package labels can be controversial!
Great Video, I just did Costco chicken and because of you tube It scated me so much I stuck it in the freezer in a mason jar.
Thanks so much for watching and for all the comments!
Costco chicken is relatively low fat.
Clear containers are never good for _long term_ storage. (Unless kept in the dark. Maybe)
The rocks in the water, great picture, its on the Oregon coast if not mistaken, I have taken similar shots of them.
I really appreciate your videos with all the good information. I just got the Stay Fresh FD and like it. I follow your protocol for making shure my food is dry. So far it has not been dry when the FD thinks it is. Thanks again!
Thanks.
Yes. it's The Three Graces north of Tillamook.
What is the “You Tube Face”? 😂 Thank you for doing this. I appreciate your methodical and thorough approaches to finding answers to questions. I have about 100 lbs of ground beef I need to freeze dry so this was timely. I also pressure can browned ground beef, and I have seen canners recommend rinsing their ground beef and it drives me nuts! Worse yet, they rinse it directly down their drain. Argh.
🤣The open mouth shocked reaction face thumbnail. ua-cam.com/video/43ieIl3EB8k/v-deo.html Thanks for watching and commenting!
www.howtogeek.com/fyi/why-everyone-makes-dumb-faces-in-youtube-thumbnails/
I am trying to learn as much as I can. I like your honesty, science, and straight forward teaching. No need, or time, for gimmicks!
I can’t find where you have ever freeze dried a roast. I just cooked one and wonder what I should do with the juice from the roast. If you have FD a roast, will you connect me to it? Thank you
I think I've only shown doing roast once. Personally, I would reduce the juice down to concentrate it and soak/dip the roast slices in it before putting them on the trays. If I had juice left (never have:) I'd spoon it on the slices after they're on the trays and before freezing.
Beef Roast Tri Tip Sliced ua-cam.com/video/-XGk0rSgjbQ/v-deo.htmlsi=NJCNHOE8VgSx52nA
@@SchoolReports thank you
I've wondered about it because raw eggs are half fat as you mentioned. I was in long range reconnaissance in Vietnam where I consumed many freeze dried meals, known as LRRP rations. One in particular, spaghetti with meat sauce, was often full of fat. I remember it clearly because we didn't have access to hot water on reconnaissance missions, so we had to rehydrate the meals with cold water. Cold greasy fat was the result. Obviously they didn't have a problem with the fat content. Thanks for the information.
Thanks so much for your comment! As you've said, there is plenty of fat in lots of things we've had over the years. I really don't understand the almost panic level of fear of fat in our home freeze drying, while at the same time ignoring the fat in eggs, ice cream, shredded cheese, etc.
Your right; when rehydrating foods with fats, hot water sure helps - *a lot!* 😁
I wanted to say thank you for the information you provide, you do a great job. I have been looking at freeze dryers and your video's are very informative and you document you sources!
🤣 Thanks! And thanks for watching and commenting.
To be fair most of the research on this one was reading the labels on Mountain House freeze dried food bags. (And testing my own 5 year old FD food)
Remember, I'm just another idiot on the internet. I could be wrong. The #1 joke at our house is "But, I saw it on the internet!" I look at what commercial companies are doing. If they can do it, we probably can too. (with method adjustments)
@@SchoolReports Yeah we have the same joke in my house....
Pemmican which has been made for centuries without freeze drying lasts yrs being half fat at times. The fat alone is something that stores very well naturally.
Exactly! People need to learn (again) to not fear fat, learn how to store it. (again)
Who the heck wants to eat “boiled” hamburger? Not me. I drain the fat and then use the paper liners for the trays. It does take a bit longer to get completely dry. Some people leave their common sense behind when it comes to what they find on the internet. Thank you for your efforts to educate.
Thanks for watching and commenting!
I've always thought it odd that there is such a fear of fats in the freeze dried food. The commercial stuff has plenty of fat and I'd been using it for 45+ years with no ill effects!
They might gain a lot of knowledge by reading some labels.😁 And you are 100% right that it does take a bit longer to make sure it's completely dry. - and they should never trust their machines to know if it's dry. It can't know!
Remember, I'm just another idiot on the internet. I could be wrong. The #1 joke at our house is "But, I saw it on the internet!" I look at what commercial companies are doing. If they can do it, we probably can too. (with method adjustments)
BTW we just finished batch # 50 yesterday! Woohoo! Little over 300lbs of food. Thanks for the inspiration.
Congratulation!
Excellent, so helpful. Thank you.
I do love your videos. I'm not about the great photography videos.
I just got into your channel. I just got into freeze drying. I appreciate what you do, its extremely informative, easy to follow with. I like your format. Keep doing what you are doing and I'll keep watching and sharing your videos with my mutual assistant group!
Thanks for watching and for commenting!
Remember, I'm just another idiot on the internet. I could be wrong. The #1 joke at our house is "But, I saw it on the internet!" I look at what commercial companies are doing. If they can do it, we probably can too. (with method adjustments)
"If you read it on the Internet, it's absolutely true!" - Abraham Lincoln
Excellent class and info! Thank you
Thanks for watching and commenting!
To be fair most of the research on this one was reading the labels on Mountain House freeze dried food bags. (And checking my own 6 year old FD food)
Remember, I'm just another idiot on the internet. I could be wrong. The #1 joke at our house is "But, I saw it on the internet!" I look at what commercial companies are doing. If they can do it, we probably can too. (with method adjustments)
Maybe the fat nay sayers are thinking of the old info that said we can’t eat saturated fat because it supposedly causes heart attacks. This is really good info, and I’m inching towards buying a freeze dryer. Thanks!
Could be!
🤔 A couple other viewers suggested it may be a hold-over from the dehydrating world. They said they used to dehydrate and now they freeze dry. They wondered if the "washing" the ground beef came from the dehydrating world, and just made its way into the freeze drying world when some people crossed from one to the other.
Thank you. :)
Thanks for what you do. I watch your videos all the time because of the amount of information you provide. Keep up the good work.
Thanks for the info😁
Cage match time for UA-cam views: SchoolReports vs Phil at 4800 feet
Thanks for watching and for commenting! That's funny, but can't we keep it cage-free? 🤣🤣
There are probably other channels doing good freeze drying out there, but I stopped watching other peoples freeze drying videos years ago. I didn't want to be accused of attacking or stealing from other freeze drying channels if I say/do anything in a video. I don't have time for them. (One FD UA-camr even accused me of attacking/mocking him and _his dog_ in this video, which had nothing to do with them!)
I do sometimes have my sister check out videos that viewers recommend, and give me a summary. (She has told me that she has started seeing people using our "Dry Check" process to make sure the food is actually dry! That's great to hear. If you're not checking, you're guessing)
How do u clean your machine after raw meat?
My answer may be a bit controversial. But, nowadays, reading package labels that show fats in freeze dried food can be controversial! 🤣
For sanitizing the surfaces of our Harvest Right, I use with the method recommended by the FDA, and used by most commercial kitchens on their stainless steel surfaces for many, many decades, and is something I already have on hand. A weak solution of bleach. www.fda.gov/food/foodborne-pathogens/listeria-listeriosis "...sanitize them with a solution of one tablespoon of chlorine bleach to one gallon of hot water"
And, yes I am very aware of what it says in the owners manual. The anti-bleach verbiage is found in a slightly different location in each version of the owners manuals. I have downloaded all the available ones and read them cover to cover. I do find it interesting that they say to "use a mild detergent" and then fail to give any example. Why? Is it to give cover later if a problem arises? A "mild detergent" will not disinfect. Perhaps just soapy water is good enough, but I don't think so. The owners manuals also say to not use Benzene or "Thinner" for cleaning. I have no idea why anyone would consider using benzene (Nasty stuff - Do people really have bottles of this at home?) or thinner for cleaning and disinfecting - those aren't items used for sanitizing.
Bottom line - Each person needs to clean the way they think is best and in a way they believe/understand will keep them safe from foodborne pathogens. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, I'm just trying to show what I do and why, and show resources when I can.
Some people have suggested using vinegar, Star San, or iodophor. I've heard good things about Star San and may have used it once, many years ago, when making root beer with the kids, for a school project. The fact that it's so widely used in brewing and cheese making says great thing about it. (if you were running an organic production line it would still have to be rinsed to meet the definitions of organic, which doesn't mean much to me because I don't think that "Organic" is a real thing) EPA seems to classify both of them as sanitizers as opposed to a disinfectant. I don't know if it makes a difference for this use, but I don't have it and I do have bleach. When I see the data that shows me a better method, I'll switch.
Freeze Drying Your First 500 lbs of Food - Cleaning - Between Batch 4 Eggs, and Batch 5 Potatoes ua-cam.com/video/fQmK-0UIhcw/v-deo.html
Freeze Drying Your First 500 lbs of Food - Cleaning - Between Batch 25 and Batch 26 ua-cam.com/video/tLjLEB5pp9Q/v-deo.html
Freeze Drying - The Next 50 Batches - Cleaning Before Batch 561 - Drying & Rehydrating Hamburger ua-cam.com/video/8zUWQuffc5c/v-deo.html
Remember, I'm just another idiot on the internet. I could be wrong. The #1 joke at our house is "But, I saw it on the internet!" Consider looking at what commercial companies are doing. That's where I look to for guidance. If they can do it, we probably can too. (with method adjustments)
Love your videos. Learned more from you than any other channel.❤❤❤❤
Wow! Another winner! You make great videos. Thank you. Have you ever tried zucchini noodles? I’m hoping to be able to freeze dry some but I fear they will all crumble instead of having noodles when done
(Sorry, I don't know how I missed this comment) I'll have to ask my sister; I would never do zucchini noodles. I don't like zucchini. I'd be fine if it didn't exist. 🤣 She did zucchini chips and I thought that they held up pretty well.
Great info. thank you very much.
In a canning group they were telling people to remove all fat from meat and stock/broth. I never do. Pork needs fat in the top of a jar so it doesn't dry out.
The loud voices don't want us to eat fat because its good for us.
Maybe some have done poor processing or used bad materials (bad bags and/or oxygen absorbers in the case of freeze drying), and they need something to blame when it fails.
I trust the SchoolReports Man. I am thankful that I found him soon after I started freeze drying.
Thanks so much for watching, commenting, and for the vote of confidence, but you don't have to trust me, trust what the commercial companies are doing. 😁 If they can do it we probably can too, with some changes, due to equipment and batch size differences. What they are doing and selling (and reading their labels:) can tell use a lot.
Thanks for your no nonsense explanations and backing it up with factual information. In this day and age, it's hard to just get definitive information.
So again.. Thanks.
Thanks! I don't know if mine makes it to the level of definitive information, but I can read a package label! 🤣
So what about oils that are left behind on the trays once you scoop the food? I’ve seen it from chef boy ardee, from spaghetti sauces etc. it’s actual oil that you can smear with your finger yet the food is dry. Will it store long term?
With the foods that we think might have fats come out, we line the trays, and cover the food, with paper towels to absorb any fats. Here is an example I can think of - ua-cam.com/video/Amsgh2gDazQ/v-deo.htmlsi=Bs-88f2uojPCugVw&t=943 These still should be fine, the oxygen absorbers will keep the fats from oxidizing.
I have stayed away from freeze drying meat with fat I do know that you can but like you stated it has to be dry . I am guessing that the meat will be dry long before the fat so how would a person know that the fat is dry enough? also if you can freeze dry meat with fat content why cant you freeze dry tallow?
I hope this makes sense. (If not please let me know)
The fat doesn't "dry" because it's not "wet," it gets absorbed into the rest of whatever the food is - in this case it's the meat. By doing the _Dry Check_ process that we do while freeze drying the meat (or any other food), it assures that the food is properly dried.
This exactly what I was questioning, if you can freeze dry eggs or 5% milk and not worrying about the fat content which they have fat in them them why can’t you freeze meat with fat in it??? There’s a lot of confusion out there on these UA-cam videos and is best to watch someone like you who will put a lot of research, reasoning and valuable information in the videos. Thanks to this information I can go ahead and freeze dry my cooked meat without taking out all the very good nutrients in it!!! 😊
Turns out my big skill is reading freeze dried food labels! 🤣
A big part of why I stopped watching freeze drying videos and started making my own was because I was being told that some of the things I had already done wouldn't work. I was told that pickles wouldn't rehydrate - they will - I have a video. "They" said carrots won't rehydrate, they will - I have a video. A lot of people said that anything with any amount of fat can't be freeze dried - of course it can. So many myths, so little time.
Probably the number one thing I see is that people just don't seem to be willing to "Test" (with the Dry Check process) their food to make sure it's actually dry (they guess!), and they don't give the food the time it takes to properly rehydrate.
Would really love to see you put together a manual/book with all your freeze drying experience & knowledge
Thanks so much for the kind words again! (And of course, thanks for watching and for commenting!)
I would love to have the ability to write something, but I can barely manage to write captions in the videos or answer comments. Maybe I could do something in the style of a question and answer page. (FAQ?) I do try to answer any question anyone asks in the comments, either in the comments and/or in a video, if visuals are needed.
I really appreciate your thoughts on this, but I've seen videos of freeze drying bacon and it looks VERY not nice... same with hot dogs... can you please do a follow up video on how one might prepare and properly store foods that have fat in them? I LOVE what you're doing! Thank you!!
Thanks, I will be doing more of these. The point is that commercial companies are doing high fat items every single day.
20% fat before freeze drying 40% fat after drying - Freeze Drying Hamburger Patties - Raw ua-cam.com/video/r_CWjR61Cd8/v-deo.html
Again 40% fat in the bag 4 1/2 years later - Rehydrating 4 1/2 Year Old, Freeze Dried, Raw Hamburger Patties ua-cam.com/video/gL_fUza_wfI/v-deo.html
Precooked 20% fat (before cooking) burger patties - Freeze Drying Hamburger Patties - Cooked ua-cam.com/video/mslcrp6d3dg/v-deo.html
Just found this channel recently, super helpful. Fat-related question, maybe someone can help. I did a batch of all-beef hot dogs, pre-cooked as hot dogs always are, but I didn't cook or grill them myself, just right out of the package. I ran them good and long, and snapped one in half, and it seemed fine, though oily inside and some of the fat was "pulled out" on the outside of the hit dogs. I was concerned, so l left them in the ziplock mylar overnight to double-check them. Now they're kind of pliable, they don't snap any more, but the exterior fat isn't visible any more. Is that just the fat / oil reabsorbing? Are they good for long-term storage? Are hot dogs out of the package just not recommended? Etc.? Appreciate anyone's help.
I hope you don't mind if I guess a bit. I don't have near enough data to prove anything yet, but my guess is that, in part, hot dogs are a compressed high fat food and as it shrinks a bit during freeze drying the fats are squeezed out. I've only tried one hot dog, and only one time. We covered it with a paper towel, so no big mess in the freeze dryer, but still, why do the burger patties work and not the hot dogs? (Raw burger patties with 20% fat seem to do better than cooked patties with a lot of the fat removed)
If they are full hot dogs (not cut in half lengthwise), I'd be very concerned that they really are truly, 100% dry. With our machine I would expect that would take a very long time; maybe 50+ hours.
Is it possible that the outside of the hot dog could be dry enough to snap (snap is not a test for dry) right after freeze drying, yet still have enough moisture deep inside, that after a period of time, the moisture levels equalize throughout and leaves it pliable? Once something is truly dry and crisp (not every food gets crisp), I've never had it go back to pliable *_except_* for that one time with the "Bad Bag Disaster."
As far as long-term storage, I wouldn't have stored the ones you describe.
I'll have to try again with other hot dogs and other methods.
@@SchoolReports Appreciate the prompt reply. Though it doesn't sound like particularly good news for the grilled cheddar brats I've got freeze drying right now. 😬 --- Anyhow, some details, in case it's helpful when you try. I have a HR small unit. Only ran a test batch of 1.75#, which is 16 dogs. Full dogs, not cut. The unit decided to freeze dry for about 16 hours, and I was squirrelly about that being enough, so I flipped them and put them in for another 5 hours. So about 21 hours total. At which point I tested with snapping as mentioned and let them relax overnight as mentioned. --- Also I'll note I had a similar fat-pull experience with pre-cooked-but-not-cooked-by-me summer sausage which I'd sliced up. That one went obviously sideways so we just cooked them up. --- The family loves dogs and summer sausage, I'm trying to oblige.
@@mattygee6712 Grilled cheddar brats sound so good! I'll have to try some more of these types of things.
I can't even imagine whole hot dog being done in only 21 hours with these machines. I have had many, many batches where the machine "thinks" it's done and still required 10 or even 20 additional hours. I *never* trust the machine to tell me the food is done, *it can't know.* I just don't know of a better way than the weighing "Dry Check." to check for dryness.
I LOVE your videos, AND I just told my hubby that I need to work through our freezers. We have a lot of ground Pork & Ground beef to freeze dry AND I NEEDED to know how to best handle it. cooked or uncooked, rinsed or UN rinsed😊 Thank you!
Thanks so much for watching and commenting! (I just finished a 9 lbs batch of raw Tri Tip - video coming soon)
Cooked vs Raw: In general (assuming similar shelf life) I would prefer to have as much of my stored food as possible already cooked and ready to eat, except for those we could eat raw anyway. That way, even if cooking or rehydrating later is not an option (for whatever reason), the food would still be able to provide immediate calories and nutrition. If the shelf live is not similar I'd rather have whichever would last longer.
So far the raw meats we've done have done great. So, bottom line is - I don't know. (Meaning I have no proof) We haven't yet experienced issues with our meats, cooked or raw, but we only have about 6 1/2 years experience with ours. We don't wash our cooked meats after cooking. (We do, of course, drain any fat)
I'm not a food scientist, but I would guess that raw, freeze dried meat _may_ have a longer shelf life than cooked freeze dried meats. But it's just a guess based on some rancidity papers I've read, I have no personal data to prove this.
The main mechanisms for the fats to go rancid involve water and/or oxygen and can be triggered by light and accelerated by higher temperatures, including cooking. It would seem that freeze drying some meat raw, that have fat, might be a good way to go. (Or maybe cooking at lower temperatures? 145ºf?) We are already removing the water, oxygen, and light before and during storing.
There are plenty of scientific and industry papers out there about food rancidity, and I've found them to be very interesting and informative; here's one - Chemists define roughly two ways a product can turn rancid: (Super simplified ) 1. Oxidative rancidity: Reaction involves oxygen 2. Hydrolytic rancidity: Reaction involves water Rancidity of Food: Introduction, Types, Factors and Prevention of Rancidity | Food Chemistry | Biotechnology www.biotechnologynotes.com/food-biotechnology/food-chemistry/rancidity-of-food-introduction-types-factors-and-prevention-of-rancidity-food-chemistry-biotechnology/14100
Consider this paper that talks about the Chemistry of frying - www.aocs.org/stay-informed/inform-magazine/featured-articles/enhancing-oxidative-stability-and-shelf-life-of-frying-oils-with-antioxidants-september-2018?SSO=True
Remember, I'm just another idiot on the internet. I could be wrong. The #1 joke at our house is "But, I saw it on the internet!" Consider looking at what commercial companies are doing. That's where I look to for guidance. If they can do it, we probably can too. (with method adjustments)
Thank You! I am of the opinion that if it is dry and correctly packaged with good oxygen absorbers it should be fine. I don't have a lot of evidence of that with home freeze dried foods, but in the last two years we opened and ate some freeze dried meats of my sister's that were bought in the mid 1970s. Some may have been from the early 80s, but most from the 70s. They were just fine except the hamburger patties were very very fatty! I swear they were 30 % fat, but not rancid. These were commercial nitrogen flushed cans, but the principle should apply for O2 absorbers as long as the oxygen is gone. We also tried the turkey, pork, and chicken. Some were cooked and some packaged raw. All were fine, even though they were almost 50 years old. A lot were of Mountain House brand and a Beaver something brand (long gone apparently). People are fearful and cautious. I am somewhat cautious because I don't have much evidence yet that O2 absorbers and mylar are as good as a nitrogen flushed can for the same number of years. I can confirm that some fatty smoked brisket that was freeze dried 2 years ago is not rancid yet. Mylar and O2 absorbers for the win.
Yep! Mountain House has been using Mylar bags and oxygen absorbers for 50+ years! (To be fair they do also nitrogen flush. Nitrogen flushing is on my list of - to try soon)
Instead of Rosemary or fruitiness, could one use 2 Oxygen absorbers to inhibit fat oxidation? 1:49 26 jan 24
Yes, oxygen absorbers are being used to inhibit the fat oxidation.
Freeze dried food companies aren't using the rosemary extract _instead of_ the oxygen absorbers, they're using it along with the oxygen absorbers. They are using an extract that, presumably, does not appreciably change the flavors. And not all companies are using it. I was just suggesting that it may be worth looking at.
I'm not sure what you mean be "fruitiness."
www.biotechnologynotes.com/food-biotechnology/food-chemistry/rancidity-of-food-introduction-types-factors-and-prevention-of-rancidity-food-chemistry-biotechnology/14100
Sorry, autocorrect changed fruit fresh to fruitiness. Perhaps an extra 0xygen absorber would do the trick for meats that have some fat. By the way, your you tube "style " is just fine, thank you very much.
@@danapitts696 Thanks!
I do, and always would, make sure the oxygen absorbers are sized big enough to remove all the current oxygen _and_ any oxygen coming in in the future, so there is no need for two of them. The oxygen absorbers I use in the quart bags are rated for 300 cc's and test out to at least 400 cc's.
A quart of air has less than 200 CC's of oxygen, so using a 300 cc oxygen absorber (tested at twice the 200) should have plenty of absorbing capacity to do the job long term.