Hi James. Your videos are always extremely well-organized & informative, and your narration is expressive enough to add to the enjoyable nature of your presentations. Kudos! 👍👍 Even though I am rather late to the party here, I did want to share a point of clarification regarding narrowband filters (my apologies if someone else has already made these points to you): 1. FYI, when you switched from narrow-band filters with a 7nm bandpass to ones with a 3nm bandpass, you were not changing the amount of 'good' data that was hitting your sensor. The Ha, OIII & SII emission lines are so 'thin' that the light from those lines will pass through a narrow 3nm 'window' as much as they pass through a wider 7nm 'window'. 2. The only other aspect that will affect the amount of photons your sensor gets from those emission lines will be the actual percent transmission of your filters at the wavelengths corresponding to the emission lines. Less expensive filters can be inherently less transparent to light, and as much as 5 to 10 percent of the photons from the emission lines that should get through to the sensor end up being reflected or absorbed. In the best filters, perhaps just 1 to 4 percent of the photons that should make it to the sensor get reflected or absorbed. So, it is more than likely that your 3nm Antlia filters will let MORE Ha, OIII & SII photons through to the sensor than the less expensive ZWO filters. (note: the Quantum Efficiency of your camera is not affected by the filters...it is the same in both these scenarios) 3. So, why does it seem as if you need to expose longer with the 3nm filters to get the same histogram as the 7nm ZWO filters? Well, it's because the ZWO filters are 'less picky' & let in more unwanted light, i.e. more light pollution & natural sky glow. In other words, a large part of the histogram you're seeing in shots with the ZWO filters is just light pollution at wavelengths that are just slightly lower and slightly higher than the desired emission line (ie. on either side of the central wavelength of the bandpass, which is the wavelength of the desired emission line data). Since the Antlia 3nm filters let in much less light on either side of each emission line, less light pollution at those wavelengths can reach the sensor. Consequently, your histogram will look like you've under-exposed your target, when - in reality - you've captured just as much or more of the useful Ha, OIII & SII data you want but less light pollution & natural sky glow. And, the proof is in the pudding, as your stacked OIII data with the 3nm filters for the Tulip has a better signal-to-noise ratio than the OIII data through the 7nm filters. 4. The only exception to my points occurs when imaging is done at especially fast focal ratios (lower than F/4). In these cases, light is focused by the objective in a very 'steep' cone, so the photons hit the filters at greater angle (relative to the perpendicular) than would occur with an optical system that's F/5 or greater. This affects the length of the path the photons take through the filter, which has a way of altering the location (central wavelength) of the bandpass in the spectrum. In the case of a 7nm bandpass, the shift in bandpass still leaves one side of the rather wide 'window' over the wavelength of the emission line, so the filter still does not block the desired photons from reaching the sensor. However, the same shift in wavelength of the much narrower 'window' of 3nm filters will result in almost the entire 'window' shifted away from the emission line wavelength, resulting in few or none of the emission line photos reaching the sensor. The good news is that one can purchase 3nm filters that compensate for the shift & they are absolutely necessary for optical systems with focal ratios less than F/4. For people who plan to use the same filters on optical systems that have F-ratios that are below & above F/4, it may be necessary to choose filters with a 5nm or 7nm bandpass, so that any shift in bandpass on the faster systems does not become problematic. However, in all other scenarios, 3nm filters will let in just as much of the desired Ha, OIII & SII light as 7nm filters of equal quality. I hope this is helpful.
Thanks, Derek, for the detailed discussion. Correct. I probably stated things less precisely than I should have. It's not that 3 nm lets in the "good" light better than a 7 nm filter, it's that my exposure is drowned out by the bad light. Same number of Oiii photons, fewer non-Oiii photons. Great points! Thanks!
Nice upgrades! The “geometric” patterns on Altaic are due to the microlensing on the ASI1600 sensor, not the filters. Your next upgrade needs to be to an ASI2600 - amazing improvements.
Hi Dave. Thanks for clueing me in on the microlensing pattern! Much appreciated. I have thought about the ASI2600. Very nice camera. Would love the 14-bit ADC. This hobby is such a financial slippery slope. If I buy an ASI2600, then I have to buy a new filter wheel and new filters. Never stops, does it?
Thanks for watching, Jason! I’m glad you’re still happy with your Antlia filters. I think they’ll be a nice upgrade from the ZWO filters. What do you use for exposure time for the SHO filters on your dark-sky excursions? Sadly, the clouds are not afraid of the cloud cam!
Great run down on the filters and how they were comparing to the ZWO filters. I'm really enjoying using my Antlias. I've also been using the Optolong 7nm and although they have small halos compared to the Antlia, they haven't really been an issue so far. Looking forward to seeing the final results on those two target - looking good so far.
Love it! Thanks for a great video! I feel another area which remains largely untested for the Antlia 3nm SHO right now is their performance at faster focal ratios (f/1.8 - f/2.2 -ish). Ps. The cloud cam with the scope in its frame looks soo sick! 👍👏
Great review Jay! I love my Antlia filters as well and some amazing captures you have man. The Tulip is look phenomenal and M16 and Sh2-86 are both looking like they are goin to be equally as impressive.
Yep. No complaints so far about these filters. At least not that the filters can do anything about. I really struggle with RGB images. SHO images are just so much easier to get something respectable. Probably some combination of object size (RGB targets are typically small galaxies), light pollution, and of course user capabilities. Always room for improvement.
I'm 7 months late in checking out your video on the Antlia filters. I too was on a ASI 1600mm but with Astronomit 6nm SHO. Yeah, the Oiii halo is likely only a bit less than the ZWO filters. I should be receiving the Antlia L,RGB and 3nm Pro SHO filters. I greatly appreciate the review and your results I upgraded to the ZWO ASI 2600mm Pro just over a year ago and really enjoy the upgraded sensor. However, as you stated I needed a different filter size. I've put up with vignetting this long saving up for the filters. I'm going with the 36mm size which meant I had to get a new filter wheel as well. I loved your suggestion on replacing the ZWO OAG receiver with the SVBONY. My order comes arrives in couple days so if ZWO uses the single screw on the OAG, I'll want to do what you did.
Hey Paul. Congrats on the 2600. Great camera. I would love the improved tonal resolution (higher-bit ADC) and the larger field of view. But I’ll continue to limp along with my current cameras rather than shell out for larger filters. Enjoy!
I can confirm your findings. I recently switched from Baader 6.5nm SHO filters to the Antlia 3nm filters for the same reasons (I'm in Bortle 6.). They eliminated the halos I was getting in OIII and are parfocal. My images with them are great; no issues. My Antlia LRGB filters were delayed and just arrived the other day and I haven't installed or tested them yet. (I'm waiting to finish a project before taking my rig apart to install them.) But I expect I'm going to like them.
Great looking overview James although slightly different I recently purchased the Antlia Golden filter for my OSC setup for similar reasons as my Optolong l-eXtreme was causing these haloing issues with the O3. Enjoy the new filters!
I had the same problem when I imaged the Sadr region with my ZWO OIII filter. The halo was horrendous, switching to the Antlia filters did not remove the halo completely, but greatly reduced it.
Thanks for the feedback, Brian. That certainly agrees with what I'm seeing with my Alkaid comparison. I'll be doing an image with Sadr in the FoV soon, so I'll be expecting to be dismayed!
Great video James. As you change to a new set of filters do you discard all the old data in which you used the older filters? Or do you attempt to combine data? Related to you moving to the new Antlia filters for each of the channels, I have a number of hours on M101 with the ASI533MC-Pro paired with the ZWO IRCut filter. I am now using the Optolong-LPro to cut a little more light pollution out of my images. Is this a case where I should process to completion the two datas sets separately or do you know of a way to combine the data? Thank you for your help.
Hi Rick. I have not combined earlier data (with ZWO filters) with newer data (with Antlia filters), but that's just because I have other changes as well: (a) different camera (ASI294 vs ASI1600) with different aspect ratio sensors and (b) different framing orientation on the handful of repeated targets. But let's talk about your situation. There is no need to throw out the old data. Feel free to combine the data sets. HOWEVER, each data set must be calibrated with Flats taken with the filter used to collect the lights. Once you have two sets of calibrated subs, then do the StarAlignment of both sets to a common Reference image. Then use Image Integration (if using Pixinsight, or whatever the stacking function is in your software) to combine all of the data into one stacked image. Good luck!
I am in Bortle 7 and have been deciding for many months if I should with OSC+ narrow band filter or mono camera. Can I get the same results in using OSC from bottle 7? What should I go with?
Do you have any thoughts as to the comparison between a similar Baader narrow band and LRGB vs Antlia . I am considering transitioning and adding narrow band to my OSC cameras in about a year . thx. Great review and fyi I am using the Antlia Gold dual band 5 nm and it is a keeper for my OSC imaging.
Hi Victor. I've never used the Baader filters. I am pleased with the Antlia filters. They are parfocal, so I just focus with the Lum and go. That's a super nice feature. If you like the Antlia filter you have, you can't go far wrong. Good luck!
Hi James. Your videos are always extremely well-organized & informative, and your narration is expressive enough to add to the enjoyable nature of your presentations. Kudos! 👍👍
Even though I am rather late to the party here, I did want to share a point of clarification regarding narrowband filters (my apologies if someone else has already made these points to you):
1. FYI, when you switched from narrow-band filters with a 7nm bandpass to ones with a 3nm bandpass, you were not changing the amount of 'good' data that was hitting your sensor. The Ha, OIII & SII emission lines are so 'thin' that the light from those lines will pass through a narrow 3nm 'window' as much as they pass through a wider 7nm 'window'.
2. The only other aspect that will affect the amount of photons your sensor gets from those emission lines will be the actual percent transmission of your filters at the wavelengths corresponding to the emission lines. Less expensive filters can be inherently less transparent to light, and as much as 5 to 10 percent of the photons from the emission lines that should get through to the sensor end up being reflected or absorbed. In the best filters, perhaps just 1 to 4 percent of the photons that should make it to the sensor get reflected or absorbed. So, it is more than likely that your 3nm Antlia filters will let MORE Ha, OIII & SII photons through to the sensor than the less expensive ZWO filters. (note: the Quantum Efficiency of your camera is not affected by the filters...it is the same in both these scenarios)
3. So, why does it seem as if you need to expose longer with the 3nm filters to get the same histogram as the 7nm ZWO filters? Well, it's because the ZWO filters are 'less picky' & let in more unwanted light, i.e. more light pollution & natural sky glow. In other words, a large part of the histogram you're seeing in shots with the ZWO filters is just light pollution at wavelengths that are just slightly lower and slightly higher than the desired emission line (ie. on either side of the central wavelength of the bandpass, which is the wavelength of the desired emission line data). Since the Antlia 3nm filters let in much less light on either side of each emission line, less light pollution at those wavelengths can reach the sensor. Consequently, your histogram will look like you've under-exposed your target, when - in reality - you've captured just as much or more of the useful Ha, OIII & SII data you want but less light pollution & natural sky glow. And, the proof is in the pudding, as your stacked OIII data with the 3nm filters for the Tulip has a better signal-to-noise ratio than the OIII data through the 7nm filters.
4. The only exception to my points occurs when imaging is done at especially fast focal ratios (lower than F/4). In these cases, light is focused by the objective in a very 'steep' cone, so the photons hit the filters at greater angle (relative to the perpendicular) than would occur with an optical system that's F/5 or greater. This affects the length of the path the photons take through the filter, which has a way of altering the location (central wavelength) of the bandpass in the spectrum. In the case of a 7nm bandpass, the shift in bandpass still leaves one side of the rather wide 'window' over the wavelength of the emission line, so the filter still does not block the desired photons from reaching the sensor. However, the same shift in wavelength of the much narrower 'window' of 3nm filters will result in almost the entire 'window' shifted away from the emission line wavelength, resulting in few or none of the emission line photos reaching the sensor. The good news is that one can purchase 3nm filters that compensate for the shift & they are absolutely necessary for optical systems with focal ratios less than F/4. For people who plan to use the same filters on optical systems that have F-ratios that are below & above F/4, it may be necessary to choose filters with a 5nm or 7nm bandpass, so that any shift in bandpass on the faster systems does not become problematic. However, in all other scenarios, 3nm filters will let in just as much of the desired Ha, OIII & SII light as 7nm filters of equal quality.
I hope this is helpful.
Thanks, Derek, for the detailed discussion. Correct. I probably stated things less precisely than I should have. It's not that 3 nm lets in the "good" light better than a 7 nm filter, it's that my exposure is drowned out by the bad light. Same number of Oiii photons, fewer non-Oiii photons. Great points! Thanks!
@@Aero19612 👍👍
Nice upgrades! The “geometric” patterns on Altaic are due to the microlensing on the ASI1600 sensor, not the filters. Your next upgrade needs to be to an ASI2600 - amazing improvements.
Hi Dave. Thanks for clueing me in on the microlensing pattern! Much appreciated. I have thought about the ASI2600. Very nice camera. Would love the 14-bit ADC. This hobby is such a financial slippery slope. If I buy an ASI2600, then I have to buy a new filter wheel and new filters. Never stops, does it?
@@Aero19612 FYI the 2600 has a 16-bit ADC. Yes, it’s a slippery slope!
@@mrmelvinzorro ouch. I think I will ban you from my channel. Haha.
@@Aero19612 Lol (I hope!). No disrespect intended - love your channel.
Great comparison between the ZWO and Antlia Oiii filters. I'm loving my Antlia filters. Love the Cloud cam! Always love watching your videos James!
Thanks for watching, Jason! I’m glad you’re still happy with your Antlia filters. I think they’ll be a nice upgrade from the ZWO filters. What do you use for exposure time for the SHO filters on your dark-sky excursions? Sadly, the clouds are not afraid of the cloud cam!
Great run down on the filters and how they were comparing to the ZWO filters. I'm really enjoying using my Antlias. I've also been using the Optolong 7nm and although they have small halos compared to the Antlia, they haven't really been an issue so far. Looking forward to seeing the final results on those two target - looking good so far.
Love it! Thanks for a great video! I feel another area which remains largely untested for the Antlia 3nm SHO right now is their performance at faster focal ratios (f/1.8 - f/2.2 -ish).
Ps. The cloud cam with the scope in its frame looks soo sick! 👍👏
Good question, Divye. I can't help with that one as my fastest refractor is f/4.75 or so. Maybe someone with a hyperstar/SCT will let us know.
Great review Jay! I love my Antlia filters as well and some amazing captures you have man. The Tulip is look phenomenal and M16 and Sh2-86 are both looking like they are goin to be equally as impressive.
Yep. No complaints so far about these filters. At least not that the filters can do anything about. I really struggle with RGB images. SHO images are just so much easier to get something respectable. Probably some combination of object size (RGB targets are typically small galaxies), light pollution, and of course user capabilities. Always room for improvement.
I'm 7 months late in checking out your video on the Antlia filters. I too was on a ASI 1600mm but with Astronomit 6nm SHO. Yeah, the Oiii halo is likely only a bit less than the ZWO filters. I should be receiving the Antlia L,RGB and 3nm Pro SHO filters. I greatly appreciate the review and your results
I upgraded to the ZWO ASI 2600mm Pro just over a year ago and really enjoy the upgraded sensor. However, as you stated I needed a different filter size. I've put up with vignetting this long saving up for the filters. I'm going with the 36mm size which meant I had to get a new filter wheel as well.
I loved your suggestion on replacing the ZWO OAG receiver with the SVBONY. My order comes arrives in couple days so if ZWO uses the single screw on the OAG, I'll want to do what you did.
Dang, sorry for all the typos. It's what I get for trying to get a comment in while rushing to head out the door.
Hey Paul. Congrats on the 2600. Great camera. I would love the improved tonal resolution (higher-bit ADC) and the larger field of view. But I’ll continue to limp along with my current cameras rather than shell out for larger filters. Enjoy!
Great informative video with good graphics as well 👏
Thanks for watching. I really like these filters.
I can confirm your findings. I recently switched from Baader 6.5nm SHO filters to the Antlia 3nm filters for the same reasons (I'm in Bortle 6.). They eliminated the halos I was getting in OIII and are parfocal. My images with them are great; no issues. My Antlia LRGB filters were delayed and just arrived the other day and I haven't installed or tested them yet. (I'm waiting to finish a project before taking my rig apart to install them.) But I expect I'm going to like them.
Thanks for the feedback, Dave! It's nice that these filters are truly parfocal - simplifies everything. I think I'll keep them.
Great looking overview James although slightly different I recently purchased the Antlia Golden filter for my OSC setup for similar reasons as my Optolong l-eXtreme was causing these haloing issues with the O3. Enjoy the new filters!
Everyone seems pretty pleased with Antlia filters. Thanks for watching!
GREAT Review! Thank you so much!
Hope it's useful for you, Diego! Thanks for watching!
I had the same problem when I imaged the Sadr region with my ZWO OIII filter. The halo was horrendous, switching to the Antlia filters did not remove the halo completely, but greatly reduced it.
Thanks for the feedback, Brian. That certainly agrees with what I'm seeing with my Alkaid comparison. I'll be doing an image with Sadr in the FoV soon, so I'll be expecting to be dismayed!
Great video James. As you change to a new set of filters do you discard all the old data in which you used the older filters? Or do you attempt to combine data? Related to you moving to the new Antlia filters for each of the channels, I have a number of hours on M101 with the ASI533MC-Pro paired with the ZWO IRCut filter. I am now using the Optolong-LPro to cut a little more light pollution out of my images. Is this a case where I should process to completion the two datas sets separately or do you know of a way to combine the data? Thank you for your help.
Hi Rick. I have not combined earlier data (with ZWO filters) with newer data (with Antlia filters), but that's just because I have other changes as well: (a) different camera (ASI294 vs ASI1600) with different aspect ratio sensors and (b) different framing orientation on the handful of repeated targets.
But let's talk about your situation. There is no need to throw out the old data. Feel free to combine the data sets. HOWEVER, each data set must be calibrated with Flats taken with the filter used to collect the lights. Once you have two sets of calibrated subs, then do the StarAlignment of both sets to a common Reference image. Then use Image Integration (if using Pixinsight, or whatever the stacking function is in your software) to combine all of the data into one stacked image. Good luck!
@@Aero19612 thank you for your help. I will give that a try.
I am in Bortle 7 and have been deciding for many months if I should with OSC+ narrow band filter or mono camera. Can I get the same results in using OSC from bottle 7? What should I go with?
The optilong, 3 nm oxygen 3 filter doesn’t halo nearly as bad. It’s very very minimal.
That's good news. I've been very pleased with the Antlia filters. Those ZWO filters were killing me! Thanks for watching!
Do you have any thoughts as to the comparison between a similar Baader narrow band and LRGB vs Antlia . I am considering transitioning and adding narrow band
to my OSC cameras in about a year . thx. Great review and fyi I am using the Antlia Gold dual band 5 nm and it is a keeper for my OSC imaging.
Hi Victor. I've never used the Baader filters. I am pleased with the Antlia filters. They are parfocal, so I just focus with the Lum and go. That's a super nice feature. If you like the Antlia filter you have, you can't go far wrong. Good luck!
Great setup! What do you use to record the images from the "cloud camera"?
I'm using the ZWO ASI120MC-S for the cloud cam. Thanks for watching!
@@Aero19612 I understood that 😉 I was not very clear, what app or software are you using to record the images every minute?
Oops. Sorry about that. Take a look at this video starting at 2:00:
ua-cam.com/video/z9QCC2PRktc/v-deo.html
@@Aero19612 perfect, thanks!
@@Aero19612 wow! You really nailed that process!!