Families of the victims have already begun the suit process. Oceangate attempted to use the waiver as a get out jail free card, but intentional negligence breaks that waiver so ruled the court.
Legal Eagle talked about this with the twitch convention foam pit. Waivers don't do a whole lot to actually stop lawsuits, they just serve to bully potential plaintiffs into not suing or settling for peanuts, and to waste time and money litigating dismissal attempts that will almost always fail but still have to be answered and argued and each one runs out the clock and the plaintiff's legal funds.
There is an injury lawyer who reviews dash cams and other injury videos who talks about how waivers don't always hold up in court. If a business doesn't do everything to ensure safety they can be held liable no matter what.
I think it should hold up. Provided. They were clear the craft was experimental. They were clear what experimental meant. I guess they should reiterate that death is very possible/ hell likely. At some point ppl are free to make their own choices and those choices have consequences
Will Oceangate have the financial resources necessary to partly compensate family members for their losses? I hope that among so many unvalidated aspects, unconsidered or ignored risks, this potential outcome was considered and prepared for.
"what, am i gonna die if my submersible leaks?" dude that is like the one thing submersibles are designed not to do. the fact that he even asked that rhetorically is just insane. this guy sucks
Ikr… like wtf ? Dude literally planning to do dives to the titanic where the pressure is astronomical and he’s like « what’s a little leak ? It ain’t gonna kill me « lol I feel like either way this would have happened, it was inevitable cause the main problem was Stockton … conceited, hardheaded, total disregard for safety just to be « remembered as an innovator » its mind boggling. This dude didn’t give a flying f, so selfish
I think thats why a lot of people took those messages to mean he was s*icidal. Because its _so_ unbelievably stupid that they assume he's _got_ to mean something other than "yeah but will a leak in my sub _kill_ me tho? 😏"
Even if the sub had not imploded, a small, 1mm leak at that pressure would be like a laser beam inside that sub. It would drill straight through anything softer than steel inside that sub. Stockton had no idea the reality of what submarines have to withstand or what failure meant.
I mean, the design itself, by what I've learnt, was sound. As in, mathematically, the sub could take it, with ample room. Materials weren't the best, but they were cheap and more eco friendly than full titanium hull. The construction, though, that was fucked up. Like, if something is designed to be made of tempered steel you can't make it of plain steel, quickly and unequally cold down in an ice bath for less than half a minute and shrugh it off because it's the same material. And bad quality carbon fiber that was not curated is just one of the many failures that the design just didn't account for.
I feel like Stockton was treating that conversation about sub safety like it was a fuckin political disagreement. What a moron. He got those poor people killed. That director really tried hard to get him to understand how dangerous what he was doing by not testing it *without* people in it first. Imagine what the former director was thinking when he read the first headline that contact with the sub had been lost.
Actually kind of funny how safety and policy's go hand in hand in thier backwards beurocracy and egotistical motives. Getting people killed for literally no reason
No "poor" people died on that sub. They all paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to be there. And, no, I do not feel for the Uber rich adventurers that died in a poorly made sub.
Stockton 100% believed himself invincible. He didn’t consider even for a second that he could actually die. He saw all safety concerns and regulations as opposition to his project rather than as necessary steps that need to be taken. And it’s also obvious that he thought he was smarter than his own director, since he just completely ignored every single plea and concern the director brought up. Even though the director had way more experience than him. The dude was clearly a narcissist. With an ego so large that he believed he could not possibly die. Crazy.
What's crazy is because of how fast it happened, he most likely believed it right to the end. He believed he was invincible up to the millisecond he died. He never knew his mistake, which is a shame, because he deserved to know that he was going to die and that it was his fault.
I mean thats kind of what happened with the new lotr amazon show. They had peter jackson and a tolkien expert college professor on retainer for lore, and ghosted both of them to do their own thing. 🤔
Stockton is like so many rich entitled people. Ego driven with a good dose of Dunning Kruger. He refuses to listen to the experts because he thinks he knows better because he read it in people magazine once. This is how you get Boeing. This is how you get Pratt & Whitney‘s current issue with the coating on the neo engine. The pure arrogance that Stockton has to sit there and be all “I know better than you” with that conversation is just disgusting.
Was he really financially rich? Oceangate never returned much. I have no idea--perhaps, like Donald Trump Snr., he also inherited a large amount from his Dad's success?
@@callumprice1710absolutely not lmao, stockton sold a scam that got people killed, Elon ar least provides global services and regularly gets rockets to orbit and works closely with NASA Stockton couldn't get *a single nation* to back him
When people ask, "Am I going to die?" like that it's a boast, not a real question. He wants the director to say "yes you'll die" so he can survive a dive and or have an engineer disagree with the director so he can rub it in his face or discredit him.
Ding ding ding we have a winner! Precisely what arrogant shit mongers like Stockton Rush want. They will sacrifice any number of lives they need to in order to getthat approval rating of "I survived when they said I wouldn't see! I know better!"
How do you know he didn’t finally realize what an idiot he actually was? No when you repeat something as grave during a serious situation he was hoping for a negative. Your as delusional as stockton at this point.
I don't think you're "milking" this. This is your field, as a science communicator, it's tour job to explain this (and be a bit entertaining while doing it)
right, like there's such a thing as a "tiny" leak once you reach past a certain depth. One second there's an intact enclosed environment and in the next millisecond there's equalized water pressure inside and out.
It didn't just implode. They heard the laminate popping and separating before hand. Issue being, they didn't immediately call it off, and then they just imploded.
I'm watching this stream on TV and my 50 year old dad, with zero knowledge of Kyle, just walked by and said "Is that Thor?" Then proceeded to call you "Two dollar Thor" and "two bit Thor." He also said you have beautiful hair. Lmfao
I'm building my own airplane right now and that's the part that pissed me off the most. The two aren't even remotely comparable to one another. Even still, the FAA says that I cannot carry persons or property for compensation or hire in my plane for a reason. The guy was a homicidal maniac with a death wish.
It appears to be even worse than negligence to me. It seems like down right deception and bordering on premeditated murder imo. Making someone pay to ride your death trap to stroke your own ego is diabolical.
The saddest part is that 19 year old begged not to go, as he was terrified of that damn sub. His family made him go with his father for father's day. That kid is honestly the only person I truly feel sorry for
Just 20 minutes in and it’s heartbreaking. Their remains were nearly instantaneously crushed by 370 Atmospheres and turned into amorphous blobs of human mush. No doubt a fair portion of them consumed by the marine life. Gruesome. Thankfully they never felt it. Unfortunately they saw it coming, or were damn terrified that they were in deep peril. Hubris? Incompetence? It was both. Stockton Rush was an incompetent leader who, in his hubris, fired his best engineers. Incompetence and hubris aren’t mutually exclusive. In fact they often go hand in hand.
Yea, it seems at that pressure we're not talking about just 'the body being crushed', we're talking about every-single-cell in their bodies being (virtually instantaneously/simultaneusly) crushed, every-single cell wall ruptered, including the cells that make up bone. And probably not just the cell walls, but the components of the cells as well, totally obliterated. so horrifying and sad. Shame on him for acting so cavalier, when that fella quit, it should have been the sign to him this would not end well.
I don’t think he understands the difference between a plane or a car to a sub… there is, literally, no way out if anything fails. You are a noodle and the dark, freezing ocean is a big cast iron pan that will obliterate you if the sub fails.
46:55 "It screams like a mother before it implodes." For the sake of the other four on the sub, I hope Rush was wrong about that, and they never knew what was coming. But another part of me wishes he went out knowing he had doomed them all.
Metal screams *as* it fails, not before... carbon fiber? Not so much. It would *and did* make a lovely pop sound as it explosively fails into fragments. The fact that the last dives of 22 included the front section falling off after a dive, having been held in place by the inner flange and water pressure... I cannot understand the level of ego needed to still use the vessel the next year.
@@mrdan2898 Now that you've mentioned it, yeah, I remember that. Either way, what I meant was that there's a giant difference between "We appear to be having some technical difficulties. No need to worry, but we have to abort for today. Sorry." and a reverberating scream that makes them spend the last couple of seconds knowing they're definitely going to die. Speaking of which, as insane as it is that a billionaire was too much of a cheapskate to either commission a proven deep sea submarine design or test his new one to destruction before putting people in it, what adds insult to injury is that in at least one of their promo videos they were boasting about their safety protocol that they wouldn't launch a dive if three vital systems had an issue. Three!
@@twincast2005 they only released 2 of the dive "trim" weights, ones intended to help them decend faster. They had between 5 and 8 more depending on how it was set up. It may have been there was an issue, because the transcript showed Stockton had quit answering the radio, but Phillip (PH) had taken over and did not inform the surface of any issues. As an actual professional diver/submariner, he would have said something almost assuredly. No, they had only seconds of warning at best...
@@lindsayschmidt2177much worse than that. They were able to recover body parts because he was ejected outside the door. These poor people (not Rush, fuck him) were turned into mush.
The bang after dive 80 (that was attributed to the sub moving in the cradle) appears to have been a delamination event because it changed the way the strain gauges responded as the sub made subsequent dives. Before dive 80 the strain gauges had a linear response with depth. After dive 80 they didnt respond in a linear way until the sub was at a few hundred meters down. Its as if a gap formed that had to be closed up by the increasing pressure before the inner layer with its strain gauges became loaded.
It's crazy that Stockton says in the safety talk that it goes bang first. Then it went bang, and they didn't stop. Even by his own unsafe plans he didn't follow his safety stop
@Colinwatters This is the best explanation I’ve seen to the non-linear strain gauge information. This makes sense that at least one, if not several, layers of the carbon fiber hull had delaminated. Then, upon increasing pressure at depth the strain gauges were compressed with the delaminated sections enough to read in conformity with prior strain gauge data. Upon ascending, the already-delaminated sections then decompressed (from the reduced pressure) to create the curvilinear strain gauge data seen in dives after dive 80.
I honestly don’t think it was delimitation of layers of the hull. If anything from the previous hull, small scale testing and how this hull failed. I think it’s actually a design flaw in the rings cause the failure point is in the same spot. It’s the glue they used to mate the two surfaces. It’s failing after the pressure cycles causing the hull to crack. I don’t think there was problem with the hull at all at this point in the pressure cycles. The fact large pieces are intact and pushed to the rear on the craft proves it. The whole bottom which under the most pressure is almost fully intact speared in the back dome
They found a liquid yet heavy paste (like molten metal but cold) that was made of "human remains" and they found DNA traces of all 5 individuals in that very same paste....
Based on everything we know about Stockton, that’s 100% how he asked “am I gonna die?” He was so sure of his own intelligence that he never for a second considered he might die, and might take others down with him. One of the most arrogant people to walk the planet.
I think whats even more wild at around 33:30 you mention how crazy it is that the force of the implosion made the debris roughly 2 football fields. Thats in 400+ atomsphere's of pressure. If you could implode something with enough force to eject debris 2 football fields away. just imagine how much more force you would need to do that IN WATER at 400+.
Water is functionally not much more viscous at depth even though there is more pressure from the water above you+around you. Remember, soft body invertebrates move along just fine at depth, it's not like they have to move through syrup. Akaik, it also didn't reach the bottom, right? If so, the bits and pieces might have had time to drift and flutter down in a cone pattern.
@JammyPajammies even if this is true, guns because ineffective at a fraction of the distance in water. So again you can only imagine just how powerful it really was.
At 3800m, It was experiencing about 51,700 tons or 104 millions pounds of pressure being exerted on all sides equally. It’s roughly like sitting the mass of the USS Missouri battleship, fully loaded, on top of the carbon fiber hull equally on all sides, and expecting it to hold every single time. Yes it was a wild experimental craft. But that’s exactly what it was, and anybody who got into it should’ve been made well aware of that. It had 0 certifications.
I can imagine walking my ass over to the Irish ghosts in third class because I've got like 100 years of new ballads and arrangements to share with them. Hell they don't even know about the Easter rebellion. That's a crying shame.
All the others just went and joined the Titantic Ghosts who are having a party coz there's not much else to do, while he's still wandering over the Oceangate parts trying to figure out who's to blame
I know someone who worked at Boeing and was one if the engineers consulted on this submersible. They refused to touch it with a ten foot pole. It was so obviously bad. Once the accident happened, they immediately went into CYA mode, had to provide all the documentation showing everyone involved at Boeing absolutely did not approve of their construction method.
@@hmgkt there may be a lot more truth to that statement than you think. That dude knew exactly what was gonna happen and he still got in. That says a lot.
As an engineer this makes me very angry. I don't care what kind of degree Rush had, that man was not an engineer. He did not have an engineer's mindset. That whole conversation is maddening - he doesn't want to test it because he knows it will fail, and he can't bear the idea of anyone telling him "no". His whole concept of testing it by just having a go is insanity because it doesn't give you the information you need, and he MUST have known that, unless he was just asleep during all the lectures about failure mode analysis. It's like he genuinely thought he was so brilliant he could beat the laws of physics.
Agreed. Rush went against all recognised standards, disregarded the knowledge of experts and known engineering principles. A self absorbed narcissist who thought he could defy the rules of physics.
16:20 my mom does K9 search and rescue including human remains detection. I've seen the term "presumed human remains" used many times in training literature. Everything is alleged and presumed. You're not even allowed to refer to someone as deceased when you find them they remain "victim" until death is called by the ME.
Even on really bad car crashes, we refer to something that we know it's human as a "remain". I'm a lowly paramedic in my country, and a cousin told me is for legal reasons. I've been called as an "expert" witness when a 17yo girl was hit in the head by a speeding car. You can imagine the "remains" afterwards.
@@Sugar3Glider My mate picked up a head near the tracks at the local railway station, after a suicide jump into an oncoming train. The train driver was deeply shocked.
There is no doubt in my mind one of the redacted names is Guillermo Sohnlein the said third person in the room. The person Stockton Mush was talking to was either Tony Nissen or David Lochridge. Both were fired for voicing concerns and this sounds like that exact conversation. Oceangate and specifically Stockton appear to be damn near criminally liable for those men's deaths.
Ive been making scale racing boat hulls out of carbon fiber for about two years now, horrible porosity issues no matter the resin or layup, and thats at the surface of the water with no pressure other than the boats weight on it, i cannot imagine using it for deep sea pressures, horrible idea.
Plus he laid it all going the same way, as seen in those videos of it being laid by *rolling a large cylinder as the carbon fiber rolls onto it* because "there is no need for cross weaving, because there will not be twisting forces on it".
@@Erenzilable i use a vacuum layup currently, thats part of the problem, the vacuum pulls out excess resin that would in a hand layup fill voids, but even then, you dont want resin holding the pressure for the voids, an autoclave cross weave procedure like how racing carbon driveshafts are made would’ve been way better but still not sure.
@@leechowning2712There was a longitudinal layer, it’s shown in the report where they cut sections of the recovered hull for inspection. Not that this mitigated the design in any way.
Didn't Rush want "to be remembered for the rules (he) broke"? 😡 For f🦆's sake? He got his squish, I mean, wish... The damned pity is he got the same results for four 💔💔💔💔 passengers.
Most damming testimony from an earlier dive passenger, not the "cracking" sounds as depth reached max, but, that "popping / cracking" sounds were heard as the sub returned to the surface. So energy was somehow "absorbed" into the hull material and "stored" until the external pressure reached minimal levels. I'm not a Carbon Fibre expert but "storing energy" sounds like something was very wrong!
It would be more accurate to say that the energy was permanently absorbed into the material via deformation. You can think of a material as having a safe energy threshold where energy can pretty much be rereleased when the stress is removed, then another cumulative threshold where energy is permanently converted into work. You can fill up the first threshold many many times, but the second threshold gradually fills every time you put too much force in. Do that enough times, and eventually one of those times the second reservoir will fill and the material will fail. The total max energy in both reservoirs is what is measured by “toughness”, and is estimated by finding the area under a stress strain curve. The first reservoir is for elastic deformation, while the second is for plastic deformation. Every single time a noise was heard, that was plastic deformation.
I'm a certification engineer at a company that makes aircraft transparencies...listening to the transcript is shocking. This never should have been allowed to happen. Tragic.
This is like Bungee Jumping with a Metal Chain........... because you think its stronger and the experts are scared to try innovating. What is the deal with these idiot experts!?! They keep telling me it wont work, ive been fighting this thing since day one! Did the Wright brothers need an expert before they climbed the first I Phone? OK!, you know what... This isn't going to work for me,.... How much money will it be, to get rid of this dumb physics problem that you keep saying is "un safety" or whatever. This expert is like the opposite of a Chad. What a baby 👶 for real. Alright lets ge Dieve!
Ego is a hell of a drug. Some people who are so full of themselves think they know better than the experts. People mistake ego and arrogance for confidence, so people end up believing what these egomaniacs say, no matter the evidence to the contrary. Thats how situations like this happen.
This is a great example of modern tech management “techniques” run amok. I’ve run into this attitude in the industrial hardware space before: the engineers who BUILT IT have misgivings or need more time to revise, but management has made so many promises and think that applying pressure and stonewalling will magically make a piece of kit start working to spec. The hardware isn’t powered by ego, but its biggest failures seem to be fueled by it. Management in such environments seems to bridle at testing unless it’s an operational, flashy demo because to them it’s a sunk cost…
"We can just release a day one patch if there are any issues, may a oroduct recall at worst." is bad enough when making a graphics card or something like tgat, but it's not a mindset that can be applied to things with Instant Death as the most likely situation if anything goes wrong.
@@RipOffProductionsLLC TBQH instant death sounds pretty nice. I bet a lot of people would immediately opt in for that were it easily available. I think it's non-instant death that most people fear. The _dying_ part of death. Like Epicurus said, "Where I am, death is not; and where death is, I am not." Now, when it's the death of _someone else,_ that's when it's fucked. I'm all for the idiot testing the damned thing _without passengers_ as much as he pleases despite the obvious risks, but to do that with passengers who've been promised that it's safe is completely unconscionable to me.
Ahhh yes, get notification when it's the end of the stream... NoIcE UA-cam... Anyway.. lucky you put the chat on screen, because just after the stream the chat replay is not avalaible yet.
I would love to believe that there were no ominous noises before the implosion, and that the passengers' last thoughts were those of excitement at almost reaching the Titanic.
Makes me feel like it was some kind of grand plan to off the passengers. At what point does incompetence become malice? But also how incompetent do you have to be to board that sub in the first place?
@MaphistosChosen I've seen a lot of comments like that. 'must have been suicide' 'must have been a plan' i personally don't agree. I think it was just a man so wealthy and arrogant and obsessed with "being an innovator" he truly believed the laws of physics wouldn't apply. I well and truly believe it's just that stupid, because he was just that stupid.
@@austinhunter2853 I think it's just me and others not being able to understand that level of stupid. Trying to attribute some level of intelligence where there was none to be found. It's so dumbfounding it's unbelievable.
56:10 Kyle can read just fine. He read the whole 191 pages. He's doing a lot of us a favor. Chatter doesn't understand summarizing. Kyle, your content standards are above and beyond. That guy in chat has no say whatsoever
I agree that content isn't a democracy, but Kyle saying his "ad libbing" is just adding in names when in fact he's fully changing up words frustrated me so much I stopped watching. He's supposed to be a science communicator but he changed way more than was necessary to help us understand the conversation, and introduced bias (by assuming tone and changing words based on that assumption) where there didn't need to be any. I'd really love him to do better than this. He's a person a lot of people trust and take at his word uncritically (rightly or wrongly). I'm only writing all this out on the 0.0000001% chance that someone who can make a difference sees it...
@@Peinauchocolat Genuine question: How did you conclude that he did not come to the conclusion that _that_ was the tone based on the diction and context? You say he _assumed_ the tone. I don't think it's an assumption -- or at least, not _just_ an assumption -- but I'd be interested to hear your reasoning on that in more detail. I think it's reasonable to conclude with a fairly high degree of confidence what Stockton's tone was in that interview. Is the audio available? That would probably clear up any ambiguity there. It seems to me like Kyle simply applied inference rules based on known human psychology in general and the known psychology of Stockton specifically in order to arrive at a best-fit tone to match the transcript. You know, like a _hypothesis?_ He did explicitly make it clear upfront that the tone was his own impression he got from reading the transcript (he said that a couple times, actually), but that in no way implies that it's just an assumption. If data is used to inform an opinion, then that opinion is more than an assumption. What tone for Rush's words do you think more parsimoniously fits the transcript than "blasé," "reckless," or "stubborn?" Wouldn't assuming that his tone was _anything else_ be an even greater assumption than assuming his attitude towards safety issues and expert opinions was any different than it had infamously been for years? I appreciate your concern. Bias is something we should all avoid whenever possible, and you're right. Kyle has a lot of influence including those who are influenced uncritically. That said, I think it's fair to say that many of the word changes were more plausibly due to the fact that the transcript had not been transcribed completely accurately as opposed to an insertion of an "assumed" narrative. Some of the literal diction of the transcript was grammatically incoherent while the underlying semantic content was (I would argue) pretty unambiguous if you account for the most common types of transcription errors. He can't be expected to read word salad out loud when it's almost certainly a transcription error, can he? That said, there were a few instances where the word changes bothered me (probably more of an OCD thing tbh), but that was mainly normal human gaffs that happen whenever someone reads written text aloud. He spent almost an hour and a half reading stuff aloud while multitasking, and it was a livestream so there's no do-overs if he misreads a word. It's practically inevitable that he would stumble on a few words over that period of time. I can't think of any examples where a word change actually modified the semantic content of the message except for one where he inserted "someone's fault" in place of "(unintelligible) fault." Are there any other specific examples of such that you can recall? Anything you consider particularly egregious? You seem cool. I like anti-bias nitpickers, personally :p
Dumb arrogant billionaire who got lucky throughout his life thought it would carry on forever. And he took out a handful of people and ruined dozens of lives because of his arrogance.
I think this is a great study in human factors. Where there were all the warnings in the world, but you chose to to silence and remove them for your own ego. This will be studied for decades.
Re: “presumed human’ remains” I have equipment doer grinding and emulsifying muscle, fat, ligaments, bones, skin using compression and sheering forces. The resulting materials are amorphous, gelatinous, a reddish grey paste which still have human DNA for identification purposes but do not resemble people. (The joys of having a USDA Meat Processing Facility.)
Jesus dude, that's not a conversation I'd want to be aware of as a family member. Just tell me they would've died quicker than they'd realize anything was wrong.😢
Except Stockton. I NEED him to be aware of how his hubris resulted in the death of 5 people including himself. That sounds mean, but I have this thing against egotistical a**holes who think they know more than the engineers they hire. Why did you bother Stockton.
It’s impossible to say if they were aware they may be in trouble, there were probably some loud banging noises going on, but Stockton was so used to those he probably told them there was nothing to worry about. And then they were dead before their brains could even register the pain.
I used to work for a company that made carbon fibre parts for automotive applications. Voids weren't even allowed in those parts. So to be so blaise about voids in something that is going down to those depths is insane.
@@brigidsingleton1596 "What was he thinking" is a question-begging fallacy. He obviously wasn't thinking. He hired people to do that for him, and then he didn't even listen to them when they did precisely what he paid them to do.
@@brigidsingleton1596 are you even more autistic than I am? I know the comment I replied to was rhetorical. I guess you didn't get that my reply was a JOKE? It's funny because it's true....
Gods, I feel SO bad for the former director. He tried so hard to save those lives, and was ignored and threatened as a result. I hope he and his family are okay.
Reading that interview sounds like Rush was suicidal tbh. He couldn't possibly have really been that stupid. It's really strange that he equates something like a sub to flying a plane.
Some people literally think rules do not apply to them. Stockton said in the interview that if the sub failed, he would know who to blame. The idea the sub would fail with him in it or that it would have been able to actually kill him if it did, was not one he would accept. He thought that he could buy fixes, shift blame, bully, or ignore rules until they went away. No one, or at least no one he wanted to listen to, told him that the rules of physics do not care who you are or how much money you have.
You'd be surprised how stupid tech bros are, they are to the point of stupid it's below average, yet people for some reason still think they're genius or something (Elon Musk moment)
1:00:00 I am reminded of something from the Evil Overlord list: "If my advisors ask 'Why are you risking everything on such a mad scheme?', I will not proceed unless I have a response that satisfies them." If someone you hire tells you it's not safe, don't continue until you convince them.
@@udirt It is a good rule to have if one is in a position of power, in fact many of them are good rules. I did have to look it up though, to get it right.
Rush by name, Rush by nature.....actually insane how this has happened! He might of done it to himself but to put other people's lives at risk, it's terrible! I guess he paid the ultimate price, but I do wish he faced some justice and had to face up to what he did 😠
@@notajp well he tests. i would too. that's what the experts are for. doesn't seem that unreasonable lol. i hear living is a solid business decision XD.
Honestly if he had any understanding at all none of this would have happened because he would have known what he was doing was wrong. He put his ego before the lives of those people.
This is just like trying to reason with my narcissistic father. It’s like talking to a brick wall. Complete and total shut down of all reasoning faculties.
ACKSHUALLY, testosterone is linked to cardiovascular disease, a major killer; XX chromosomes contain duplicate genes while XY chromosomes don't, thus making females' genomes more resilient to harmful mutations over a lifetime; and suicide rates for men are WAY higher than for women (about 4x in USA and 2x worldwide). It's still a good joke nonetheless, I cracked a grin. I'm just too autistic to read that and not reply with the actual reasons just in case anyone who didn't know it was a joke took your statement at face value.
Someone in the chat called him "Icurus in a sub" Comment of the year IMHO I'm going to try to find the comment again so that master wordsmith may be properly credited.
58:37 i get the feeling Stockton was getting tired of every expert telling him different ways this would fail that he just started to shut down any person that tried to be safe about it
I genuinely believe that he had a head injury or a tumor or something that people heal from, but it drastically shifts personality/reasonable thinking. Watching the older clips of him being more sane, (like the og yellow fully legal submersible days in the beginning of his company) and then the sudden shift into wanting to be some deep sea engineer/daredevil makes me genuinely uncomfortable, like WHAT HAPPENED TO HIM?
For the morbidly curious like myself, look at the autopsy photos from the Byford Dolphin incident. While doing so, keep in mind that this trauma resulted from the rapid decompression with a difference of only 14 atmospheres, as opposed to the 380 involved in the Titan implosion. 14 vs. 380. Let your imagination fill in the blanks from there.
If Rush was the only one in that submersible, I would be laughing. He wasn’t the only one in that death trap. He effectively murdered several people, including a teenager, because he couldn’t look past his own nose and his brain was smoother than Mr Clean’s head.
I feel like this submarine went down the same exact unremarkably classic way every other company goes down. Leadership has too much ego and doesn't want to listen to someone below them who has more experience. Thus leadership fired the experienced people and replace them with yes men who are less experienced and have no backbone. It's so stupid and typical that I don’t even feel sorry.
Everytime the response 'I understand' appears I just picture someone saying 'So!' and shrugging their shoulders. As for the investigation I'm not sure it will really reveal much in the way of new information, rather it will just reveal a deeper level and understanding of existing information.
This is amazing to follow along, especially for engineering students still in college. During your capstone project, you will be assigned to a customer with real world needs and you will be going through the entire R&D process while also doing meetings with the involved client. Sometimes your partners or even clients will be uncooperative and you will have to navigate through that. This part of the case is where engineering ethics become a major talking point despite being a subject often glossed over. Definitely a lecture’s worth of discussion.
![🔴OceanGate - Even Worse Than We Thought | [OFFICE HOURS] Podcast 122](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/sY0gd3D4qio/mqdefault.jpg)
![🔴OceanGate - Even Worse Than We Thought | [OFFICE HOURS] Podcast 122](/img/tr.png)
Families of the victims have already begun the suit process. Oceangate attempted to use the waiver as a get out jail free card, but intentional negligence breaks that waiver so ruled the court.
Legal Eagle talked about this with the twitch convention foam pit. Waivers don't do a whole lot to actually stop lawsuits, they just serve to bully potential plaintiffs into not suing or settling for peanuts, and to waste time and money litigating dismissal attempts that will almost always fail but still have to be answered and argued and each one runs out the clock and the plaintiff's legal funds.
There is an injury lawyer who reviews dash cams and other injury videos who talks about how waivers don't always hold up in court. If a business doesn't do everything to ensure safety they can be held liable no matter what.
I think it should hold up. Provided. They were clear the craft was experimental. They were clear what experimental meant. I guess they should reiterate that death is very possible/ hell likely.
At some point ppl are free to make their own choices and those choices have consequences
Will Oceangate have the financial resources necessary to partly compensate family members for their losses? I hope that among so many unvalidated aspects, unconsidered or ignored risks, this potential outcome was considered and prepared for.
@@nickabel8279 nah
“It doesn’t just implode” are some insane famous last words
Wasn't this months ahead of time?
reminds me of the Chernobyl hbo series, "how does an RBMK reactor explode? it cant!"
This whole situation is the reason that when someone says "trust me", you don't.
IKR! I bet the other dude was like, are you seriously that STUPID to say that!?
Narrator: it did, in fact, just implode.
"I understand"
-Stockton Rush, a person who does not if fact understand
Oh he is very intimate with the facts now
You can fall out of the sky with a parachute and survive, you can fall out of being crushed by 300+ atmospheres. "I understand"
Come on guys, he's a genius millionaire who knows more than everyone else. His credentials are being a millionaire, jeez.
Rush is a fool who huffed his own farts.
I'd say "take a drink each time he says "I understand" but that'd give anybody who tries that an alcohol poisoning.
"you won't be the one retrieving my body."
you're right there, Stockton, because there's nothing left to retrieve, my good chum.
I don't know if I wish you meant that joke or not
mmmm, chum
Stockton Paste.
Well played, sir.
I sea what you did there
"what, am i gonna die if my submersible leaks?" dude that is like the one thing submersibles are designed not to do. the fact that he even asked that rhetorically is just insane. this guy sucks
Ikr… like wtf ? Dude literally planning to do dives to the titanic where the pressure is astronomical and he’s like « what’s a little leak ? It ain’t gonna kill me « lol
I feel like either way this would have happened, it was inevitable cause the main problem was Stockton … conceited, hardheaded, total disregard for safety just to be « remembered as an innovator » its mind boggling. This dude didn’t give a flying f, so selfish
I think thats why a lot of people took those messages to mean he was s*icidal. Because its _so_ unbelievably stupid that they assume he's _got_ to mean something other than "yeah but will a leak in my sub _kill_ me tho? 😏"
Even if the sub had not imploded, a small, 1mm leak at that pressure would be like a laser beam inside that sub. It would drill straight through anything softer than steel inside that sub. Stockton had no idea the reality of what submarines have to withstand or what failure meant.
How dangerous can the ocean be, look at all the fish that live in there!
@@raycearcher5794😂😂😂
The more I study the Titan, its design, construction, materials and management it’s looking more like a murder suicide than an accident.
“OceanGate” is an awful lot like” Heaven’s Gate”
Agent 47 strikes again
@@zimbothemagnificent Omg, the quickest way to 5150 cult
Based CEO goes out instantaneously, taking as many elites as he could fit in with him. True comrade.
I mean, the design itself, by what I've learnt, was sound. As in, mathematically, the sub could take it, with ample room. Materials weren't the best, but they were cheap and more eco friendly than full titanium hull.
The construction, though, that was fucked up. Like, if something is designed to be made of tempered steel you can't make it of plain steel, quickly and unequally cold down in an ice bath for less than half a minute and shrugh it off because it's the same material. And bad quality carbon fiber that was not curated is just one of the many failures that the design just didn't account for.
I feel like Stockton was treating that conversation about sub safety like it was a fuckin political disagreement. What a moron. He got those poor people killed. That director really tried hard to get him to understand how dangerous what he was doing by not testing it *without* people in it first. Imagine what the former director was thinking when he read the first headline that contact with the sub had been lost.
The man was obviously suffering from some sort of God delusion.
Total insanity IMHO.
Actually kind of funny how safety and policy's go hand in hand in thier backwards beurocracy and egotistical motives. Getting people killed for literally no reason
I understand.
There is a fine line between hubris and moronic and he jump roped the line
No "poor" people died on that sub. They all paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to be there. And, no, I do not feel for the Uber rich adventurers that died in a poorly made sub.
Stockton 100% believed himself invincible. He didn’t consider even for a second that he could actually die. He saw all safety concerns and regulations as opposition to his project rather than as necessary steps that need to be taken. And it’s also obvious that he thought he was smarter than his own director, since he just completely ignored every single plea and concern the director brought up. Even though the director had way more experience than him.
The dude was clearly a narcissist. With an ego so large that he believed he could not possibly die. Crazy.
What's crazy is because of how fast it happened, he most likely believed it right to the end. He believed he was invincible up to the millisecond he died.
He never knew his mistake, which is a shame, because he deserved to know that he was going to die and that it was his fault.
@@ArskiteI guarantee people like him will not learn to change their own narcissistic beliefs
I'll bet it was planned suicide. He didn't need it to to survive round trip.
Imagine hiring experts with experience in the industry, then completely ignoring and arguing their opinions. That's pure hubris
That's most management in my experience.
I understand...
I mean thats kind of what happened with the new lotr amazon show. They had peter jackson and a tolkien expert college professor on retainer for lore, and ghosted both of them to do their own thing. 🤔
Stockton is like so many rich entitled people. Ego driven with a good dose of Dunning Kruger. He refuses to listen to the experts because he thinks he knows better because he read it in people magazine once. This is how you get Boeing. This is how you get Pratt & Whitney‘s current issue with the coating on the neo engine.
The pure arrogance that Stockton has to sit there and be all “I know better than you” with that conversation is just disgusting.
Was he really financially rich? Oceangate never returned much. I have no idea--perhaps, like Donald Trump Snr., he also inherited a large amount from his Dad's success?
Very much like elon musk. Rich and dunning Kruger.
@@callumprice1710absolutely not lmao, stockton sold a scam that got people killed, Elon ar least provides global services and regularly gets rockets to orbit and works closely with NASA
Stockton couldn't get *a single nation* to back him
@@Michael.Chapman He's "Old Money"
Exactly. His parents had some money and so did his wife. He was a man~child with expensive hobbies.
Mr Rush: "it'd be $250,000 to go down and visit the Titanic"
Me: "and how much would it be to go up?"
Mr Rush: 🗿
"Resurface?"
@@ALEX-KYLE-g9 damn well Stockton should have clarified because they all got the former treatment
Great way to look at it. 💯👍
@@BrandonDenny-we1rwno no. Up.
Rush: Priceless
“It doesnt just implode.”
The scream i scrumpt
ME TOO
Repeat Scrumpts!!
When people ask, "Am I going to die?" like that it's a boast, not a real question. He wants the director to say "yes you'll die" so he can survive a dive and or have an engineer disagree with the director so he can rub it in his face or discredit him.
Ding ding ding we have a winner! Precisely what arrogant shit mongers like Stockton Rush want. They will sacrifice any number of lives they need to in order to getthat approval rating of "I survived when they said I wouldn't see! I know better!"
To Rush thats a No-Loose-Argument. Either he comes back alive, or he can't care anymore that hes been wrong
Which is why the director was smart enough not to answer the question.
How do you know he didn’t finally realize what an idiot he actually was? No when you repeat something as grave during a serious situation he was hoping for a negative. Your as delusional as stockton at this point.
I don't think you're "milking" this. This is your field, as a science communicator, it's tour job to explain this (and be a bit entertaining while doing it)
"It doesn't just implode."
It goes beyond laughable. Like you can't even laugh at how ridiculous that is.
right, like there's such a thing as a "tiny" leak once you reach past a certain depth. One second there's an intact enclosed environment and in the next millisecond there's equalized water pressure inside and out.
IKR! But, he's actually right! If built "correctly", the sub would, or should not just implode!
It didn't just implode. They heard the laminate popping and separating before hand. Issue being, they didn't immediately call it off, and then they just imploded.
if you were to write this for ashow or movie EVERYONE would roll their eyes in unison, its just so over the top. yet i know people just like stockton
His "I understand" refrain is equivalent to sticking his fingers in his ears and yelling "Lalalalala I can't hear you!"
I'm watching this stream on TV and my 50 year old dad, with zero knowledge of Kyle, just walked by and said "Is that Thor?" Then proceeded to call you "Two dollar Thor" and "two bit Thor." He also said you have beautiful hair. Lmfao
There’s no WAY he used our catchphrase
😂😂😂 Thor found his new passion
@@kylehill Man I swear to God😭 I was dying
I support this message
😂 amazing dad!
The fact he compared creating a sub to function 4000' down with designing a small plane is _wild_ and shows he was entirely out of his depth.
Pun intended?
Well at least he's never going to get out of his depth again.
Depth 😂
I'm building my own airplane right now and that's the part that pissed me off the most. The two aren't even remotely comparable to one another. Even still, the FAA says that I cannot carry persons or property for compensation or hire in my plane for a reason. The guy was a homicidal maniac with a death wish.
Out of his depth? More like in over his head.
The waiver doesn't protect against gross negligence. Which I think we can all agree...there was some negligence involved.
It was way past gross negligence and all the way into disgusting or even repugnant negligence
It appears to be even worse than negligence to me. It seems like down right deception and bordering on premeditated murder imo. Making someone pay to ride your death trap to stroke your own ego is diabolical.
@@Waldohasaskit210I don't think there is a legal term beyond gross negligence 😆
I agree--however it isn't a matter to lol about...
@@osets2117 you are looking for reckless endangerment
Rush allowed a 19 year old on that thing. It’s murder.
The saddest part is that 19 year old begged not to go, as he was terrified of that damn sub. His family made him go with his father for father's day. That kid is honestly the only person I truly feel sorry for
@@MrLeFluffy1 A good reminder to trust your gut.
It is really despicable.
Yeah, a terrifyingly real 'bonding' experience.
Just 20 minutes in and it’s heartbreaking. Their remains were nearly instantaneously crushed by 370 Atmospheres and turned into amorphous blobs of human mush. No doubt a fair portion of them consumed by the marine life.
Gruesome. Thankfully they never felt it. Unfortunately they saw it coming, or were damn terrified that they were in deep peril.
Hubris? Incompetence? It was both. Stockton Rush was an incompetent leader who, in his hubris, fired his best engineers.
Incompetence and hubris aren’t mutually exclusive. In fact they often go hand in hand.
He felt inadequate when working with people who were experts in their field.
These millionaire idiots should work with some 1-500psi systems to see how insane that is.
To think they could play around under 6,000psi is arrogant.
Yea, it seems at that pressure we're not talking about just 'the body being crushed', we're talking about every-single-cell in their bodies being (virtually instantaneously/simultaneusly) crushed, every-single cell wall ruptered, including the cells that make up bone. And probably not just the cell walls, but the components of the cells as well, totally obliterated.
so horrifying and sad.
Shame on him for acting so cavalier, when that fella quit, it should have been the sign to him this would not end well.
@@NOMAD-qp3dddamn that's crazy to think about, vaporised by his own incompetence
Even worse considering the youngest victim was apparently reluctant to proceed--but may have done so to please a parent.
I don’t think he understands the difference between a plane or a car to a sub… there is, literally, no way out if anything fails. You are a noodle and the dark, freezing ocean is a big cast iron pan that will obliterate you if the sub fails.
Exactly what I was thinking! The other dude was thinking the same!
True, literally no way out due to the pressure. Even in a plane, you could put on a parachute and jump in an emergency.
@@eldfen2334I understand.....
Lol
@@NikkiC777 Glad to help
"well the front fell off"
I can't believe that skit actually happened IRL
Oh snap I thought u were joking but no, literally the front actually did fall off.
Yikes! x 1,000
13:47
That's scary and horrific.
46:55 "It screams like a mother before it implodes." For the sake of the other four on the sub, I hope Rush was wrong about that, and they never knew what was coming. But another part of me wishes he went out knowing he had doomed them all.
Well they did release their drop weights way too early, thus at least Stockton knew something was wrong!
Metal screams *as* it fails, not before... carbon fiber? Not so much. It would *and did* make a lovely pop sound as it explosively fails into fragments.
The fact that the last dives of 22 included the front section falling off after a dive, having been held in place by the inner flange and water pressure... I cannot understand the level of ego needed to still use the vessel the next year.
@@mrdan2898 Now that you've mentioned it, yeah, I remember that. Either way, what I meant was that there's a giant difference between "We appear to be having some technical difficulties. No need to worry, but we have to abort for today. Sorry." and a reverberating scream that makes them spend the last couple of seconds knowing they're definitely going to die. Speaking of which, as insane as it is that a billionaire was too much of a cheapskate to either commission a proven deep sea submarine design or test his new one to destruction before putting people in it, what adds insult to injury is that in at least one of their promo videos they were boasting about their safety protocol that they wouldn't launch a dive if three vital systems had an issue. Three!
@@leechowning2712 Well, that's a macabre relief then. And yes, the whole Scotch tape and gumption approach boggles the mind.
@@twincast2005 they only released 2 of the dive "trim" weights, ones intended to help them decend faster. They had between 5 and 8 more depending on how it was set up. It may have been there was an issue, because the transcript showed Stockton had quit answering the radio, but Phillip (PH) had taken over and did not inform the surface of any issues. As an actual professional diver/submariner, he would have said something almost assuredly.
No, they had only seconds of warning at best...
"Presumed" human remains, holy crap. I wonder if Mortician Caitlyn will ever do a video on the incident.
Not sure if I'd want to watch that but she does give excellent information.
I imagine the remains looked similar to what was left of the divers after the Byford Dolphin accident.
@@lindsayschmidt2177much worse than that. They were able to recover body parts because he was ejected outside the door. These poor people (not Rush, fuck him) were turned into mush.
To paraphrase Scott Manley they very abruptly stopped being biology and became physics.
"for a real life comparison, here's a jar of raspberry jam"
“But did you die?”
Yeah, yes, actually.
😂😭😂😭
The bang after dive 80 (that was attributed to the sub moving in the cradle) appears to have been a delamination event because it changed the way the strain gauges responded as the sub made subsequent dives. Before dive 80 the strain gauges had a linear response with depth. After dive 80 they didnt respond in a linear way until the sub was at a few hundred meters down. Its as if a gap formed that had to be closed up by the increasing pressure before the inner layer with its strain gauges became loaded.
It's crazy that Stockton says in the safety talk that it goes bang first.
Then it went bang, and they didn't stop. Even by his own unsafe plans he didn't follow his safety stop
😬
@Colinwatters This is the best explanation I’ve seen to the non-linear strain gauge information. This makes sense that at least one, if not several, layers of the carbon fiber hull had delaminated. Then, upon increasing pressure at depth the strain gauges were compressed with the delaminated sections enough to read in conformity with prior strain gauge data. Upon ascending, the already-delaminated sections then decompressed (from the reduced pressure) to create the curvilinear strain gauge data seen in dives after dive 80.
I honestly don’t think it was delimitation of layers of the hull. If anything from the previous hull, small scale testing and how this hull failed. I think it’s actually a design flaw in the rings cause the failure point is in the same spot. It’s the glue they used to mate the two surfaces. It’s failing after the pressure cycles causing the hull to crack. I don’t think there was problem with the hull at all at this point in the pressure cycles. The fact large pieces are intact and pushed to the rear on the craft proves it. The whole bottom which under the most pressure is almost fully intact speared in the back dome
i work with CF with model aircraft once CF de-laminates thats it. its done. the hual might as well be only as thick to the point delaminatiend layer
They found a liquid yet heavy paste (like molten metal but cold) that was made of "human remains" and they found DNA traces of all 5 individuals in that very same paste....
That's gonna make me hate my dinner tonight......yike..
Billionaire soup
@@F0XD1Eeat the rich 🍽
When Kyle started talking about "presumed human remains", i said out loud " that's because red paste is all that's left"
I want to read this in some official report. Where can I read that description?
looks like suicide with extra steps
And extra victims/participants
@@teeteetuu94fine, “negligent manslaughter/suicide” with extra steps
🤣🤣🤣@@AG-fs8yn
Based on everything we know about Stockton, that’s 100% how he asked “am I gonna die?” He was so sure of his own intelligence that he never for a second considered he might die, and might take others down with him. One of the most arrogant people to walk the planet.
I think whats even more wild at around 33:30 you mention how crazy it is that the force of the implosion made the debris roughly 2 football fields. Thats in 400+ atomsphere's of pressure. If you could implode something with enough force to eject debris 2 football fields away. just imagine how much more force you would need to do that IN WATER at 400+.
Water is functionally not much more viscous at depth even though there is more pressure from the water above you+around you. Remember, soft body invertebrates move along just fine at depth, it's not like they have to move through syrup.
Akaik, it also didn't reach the bottom, right? If so, the bits and pieces might have had time to drift and flutter down in a cone pattern.
To mention, the sub was not near the ocean floor, but was fairly high up. Thus debris would drift in the way it did.
@JammyPajammies even if this is true, guns because ineffective at a fraction of the distance in water. So again you can only imagine just how powerful it really was.
At 3800m, It was experiencing about 51,700 tons or 104 millions pounds of pressure being exerted on all sides equally. It’s roughly like sitting the mass of the USS Missouri battleship, fully loaded, on top of the carbon fiber hull equally on all sides, and expecting it to hold every single time. Yes it was a wild experimental craft. But that’s exactly what it was, and anybody who got into it should’ve been made well aware of that. It had 0 certifications.
if you squint you can see a chunk of Stockton's gigantic ego sticking out of the mud
Can you imagine being a ghost stuck down there With stockton's ghost while he tries to sell you tickets for the rest of eternity.
I know the Titanic ghosts are sick of him
I can imagine walking my ass over to the Irish ghosts in third class because I've got like 100 years of new ballads and arrangements to share with them.
Hell they don't even know about the Easter rebellion. That's a crying shame.
It's a good job ghosts don't exist then
All the others just went and joined the Titantic Ghosts who are having a party coz there's not much else to do, while he's still wandering over the Oceangate parts trying to figure out who's to blame
😭🤜🏽💢👻🤜🏽🤜🏽
Being inventive is great. Trying things that nobody thinks will work is great. Doing it the way he did was beyond stupid.
Even more so that he risked the lives of others for profits because Ocean Gate had no money.
I want to point out they mention consulting boeing at one point. Kyle didn't go over it but you can see it. That aged well...
I think the consultation with Boeing, or maybe NASA - but I think Boeing - was cancelled due to Covid.
I know someone who worked at Boeing and was one if the engineers consulted on this submersible. They refused to touch it with a ten foot pole. It was so obviously bad. Once the accident happened, they immediately went into CYA mode, had to provide all the documentation showing everyone involved at Boeing absolutely did not approve of their construction method.
@@liesalllies you know something is bad when even boeing nopes out 💀
@@CaelVK”We don’t even need to assassinate anyone over this. That is how deluded the CEO was.”
Does Boeing have knowledge for underwater? Feels silly to ask a plane manufacturer about a sub, but I might not know something
The transcript reads like Benson arguing with a Mordecai/Rigby chimera.
"Do you really understand? Because sometimes I wonder."
"I understand."
"Ooooooooooooohhhhhhh- _Pop!_ "
Stockton Mush
He was crippled by the pressure.
@@hmgkt there may be a lot more truth to that statement than you think. That dude knew exactly what was gonna happen and he still got in. That says a lot.
I bet he felt crushed by the failure.
Poor Stockton Rush. He wanted to be Captain Nemo. He became Captain Crunch.
💀
As an engineer this makes me very angry. I don't care what kind of degree Rush had, that man was not an engineer. He did not have an engineer's mindset. That whole conversation is maddening - he doesn't want to test it because he knows it will fail, and he can't bear the idea of anyone telling him "no". His whole concept of testing it by just having a go is insanity because it doesn't give you the information you need, and he MUST have known that, unless he was just asleep during all the lectures about failure mode analysis. It's like he genuinely thought he was so brilliant he could beat the laws of physics.
Agreed. Rush went against all recognised standards, disregarded the knowledge of experts and known engineering principles. A self absorbed narcissist who thought he could defy the rules of physics.
16:20 my mom does K9 search and rescue including human remains detection. I've seen the term "presumed human remains" used many times in training literature. Everything is alleged and presumed. You're not even allowed to refer to someone as deceased when you find them they remain "victim" until death is called by the ME.
"I found a victim's head."
"Quick, check for a pulse!"
"It's only the head."
"Does it have a pulse?!"
"It... It's only a head"
I’ve heard the terms “brownish-red staining” in regards to (probably) blood stains, in crime scene court proceedings
@@Sugar3Glider Decapitation, I believe, is one of the few exception cases where a lay person is allowed to call a victim dead...
Even on really bad car crashes, we refer to something that we know it's human as a "remain". I'm a lowly paramedic in my country, and a cousin told me is for legal reasons. I've been called as an "expert" witness when a 17yo girl was hit in the head by a speeding car. You can imagine the "remains" afterwards.
@@Sugar3Glider My mate picked up a head near the tracks at the local railway station, after a suicide jump into an oncoming train. The train driver was deeply shocked.
Rush died so quickly that he never experienced the "My God what have I done?" realization of his folly.
There is no doubt in my mind one of the redacted names is Guillermo Sohnlein the said third person in the room. The person Stockton Mush was talking to was either Tony Nissen or David Lochridge. Both were fired for voicing concerns and this sounds like that exact conversation. Oceangate and specifically Stockton appear to be damn near criminally liable for those men's deaths.
Sadly, you can't hold a dead man liable for a crime.
@@RipOffProductionsLLC we can hold him accountable, we just cant punish him.
This was a conversation with David Lockridge when he was fired.
@@Skankhunter420 I said liable, as in legally accountable.
The dead can't be charged in court.
@@RipOffProductionsLLC his estate will be held legally accountable. Feel better?
"Stockton Rush'd,
Instead of go with the flow,
But then he got crushed
3000 below." - A Tale of Hubris
Ive been making scale racing boat hulls out of carbon fiber for about two years now, horrible porosity issues no matter the resin or layup, and thats at the surface of the water with no pressure other than the boats weight on it, i cannot imagine using it for deep sea pressures, horrible idea.
this the only way to use CF get almost no porosity is with an autoclave and they where laying this stuff up cold
Plus he laid it all going the same way, as seen in those videos of it being laid by *rolling a large cylinder as the carbon fiber rolls onto it* because "there is no need for cross weaving, because there will not be twisting forces on it".
What about popping the thing in a vacuum pack?
@@Erenzilable i use a vacuum layup currently, thats part of the problem, the vacuum pulls out excess resin that would in a hand layup fill voids, but even then, you dont want resin holding the pressure for the voids, an autoclave cross weave procedure like how racing carbon driveshafts are made would’ve been way better but still not sure.
@@leechowning2712There was a longitudinal layer, it’s shown in the report where they cut sections of the recovered hull for inspection. Not that this mitigated the design in any way.
"It doesn't just implode" well... It kinda did
Bane voice: No, the front falls of. _Then_ it implodes.
Its a shame that he will never know what his decisions led to.
No, maybe he did. Maybe he planned it. You never know.
Sorry for blowing up the comments but the crab footage is a terrific example of a major underwater hazard known as Delta-P.
Never get into a Delta-P situation 😰
"Because when it's got ya, _it's got ya."_
Didn't Rush want "to be remembered for the rules (he) broke"? 😡 For f🦆's sake?
He got his squish, I mean, wish...
The damned pity is he got the same results for four 💔💔💔💔 passengers.
What is a fduck?
@@DemonSliimeyou don't want to know!!
@@DemonSliime
It's a slightly more polite version used when typing the word which would otherwise exclude the letter 'd'.
@@brigidsingleton1596 Not sure what you mean.
@@DemonSliime
Nevermind then.
“Your sub has suffered a catastrophic failure and is no longer useable… I must ask you to please surrender your sub and leave the forge”
Touché - pun intended - and beautiful line btw
Should've been
"Your sub has suffered a catastrophic failure and is no longer useable...please exit your meat seat and report to Peter at the gate".
"It indeed... KEELS."
@@calvinweese😂😂😂
@@calvinweese Yeah okay, but was it meant to KEEL the wielder? :P
Most damming testimony from an earlier dive passenger, not the "cracking" sounds as depth reached max, but, that "popping / cracking" sounds were heard as the sub returned to the surface. So energy was somehow "absorbed" into the hull material and "stored" until the external pressure reached minimal levels.
I'm not a Carbon Fibre expert but "storing energy" sounds like something was very wrong!
It would be more accurate to say that the energy was permanently absorbed into the material via deformation. You can think of a material as having a safe energy threshold where energy can pretty much be rereleased when the stress is removed, then another cumulative threshold where energy is permanently converted into work. You can fill up the first threshold many many times, but the second threshold gradually fills every time you put too much force in. Do that enough times, and eventually one of those times the second reservoir will fill and the material will fail. The total max energy in both reservoirs is what is measured by “toughness”, and is estimated by finding the area under a stress strain curve. The first reservoir is for elastic deformation, while the second is for plastic deformation. Every single time a noise was heard, that was plastic deformation.
Holy balls Stockton was a fool. I know that's not news, but damn the extent to which he ignored extremely explicit warnings is criminal.
I'm a certification engineer at a company that makes aircraft transparencies...listening to the transcript is shocking. This never should have been allowed to happen. Tragic.
This is like Bungee Jumping with a Metal Chain...........
because you think its stronger and the experts are scared to try innovating.
What is the deal with these idiot experts!?!
They keep telling me it wont work, ive been fighting this thing since day one!
Did the Wright brothers need an expert before they climbed the first I Phone?
OK!, you know what...
This isn't going to work for me,....
How much money will it be,
to get rid of this dumb physics problem that you keep saying is "un safety" or whatever.
This expert is like the opposite of a Chad. What a baby 👶 for real.
Alright lets ge Dieve!
Ego is a hell of a drug. Some people who are so full of themselves think they know better than the experts. People mistake ego and arrogance for confidence, so people end up believing what these egomaniacs say, no matter the evidence to the contrary. Thats how situations like this happen.
This is a great example of modern tech management “techniques” run amok.
I’ve run into this attitude in the industrial hardware space before: the engineers who BUILT IT have misgivings or need more time to revise, but management has made so many promises and think that applying pressure and stonewalling will magically make a piece of kit start working to spec.
The hardware isn’t powered by ego, but its biggest failures seem to be fueled by it.
Management in such environments seems to bridle at testing unless it’s an operational, flashy demo because to them it’s a sunk cost…
"We can just release a day one patch if there are any issues, may a oroduct recall at worst." is bad enough when making a graphics card or something like tgat, but it's not a mindset that can be applied to things with Instant Death as the most likely situation if anything goes wrong.
@@RipOffProductionsLLC TBQH instant death sounds pretty nice. I bet a lot of people would immediately opt in for that were it easily available. I think it's non-instant death that most people fear. The _dying_ part of death. Like Epicurus said, "Where I am, death is not; and where death is, I am not."
Now, when it's the death of _someone else,_ that's when it's fucked. I'm all for the idiot testing the damned thing _without passengers_ as much as he pleases despite the obvious risks, but to do that with passengers who've been promised that it's safe is completely unconscionable to me.
This Stockton Guy has went from hasty in my head to flat out brazenly irresponsible and dangerous.
"I built a carbon fiber airplane with 300hp, and i'm perfectly safe. This submersible game is easy."
Ahhh yes, get notification when it's the end of the stream... NoIcE UA-cam... Anyway.. lucky you put the chat on screen, because just after the stream the chat replay is not avalaible yet.
Same wth. It even says it's an hour old.
Same happened to me :(
The attitude he took to the sub is the attitude that the billionaires and trillionaire are taken to the planet - to the survival of human life itself
Damn 😢
I am smarter than everyone and I will prove it.
Great job
I would love to believe that there were no ominous noises before the implosion, and that the passengers' last thoughts were those of excitement at almost reaching the Titanic.
Giant desk? Or tiny Kyle?
Both
yes
That's how Stockton's interview with NASA went and the reason why he was never allowed to become their astronaut.🤣
The level of arrogance and hubris is almost cartoonish
Yeah! I wish Stockton was here still so he could be ridiculed for eternity.
Yeah, that's narcissism for you
Makes me feel like it was some kind of grand plan to off the passengers. At what point does incompetence become malice? But also how incompetent do you have to be to board that sub in the first place?
@MaphistosChosen I've seen a lot of comments like that. 'must have been suicide' 'must have been a plan' i personally don't agree. I think it was just a man so wealthy and arrogant and obsessed with "being an innovator" he truly believed the laws of physics wouldn't apply. I well and truly believe it's just that stupid, because he was just that stupid.
@@austinhunter2853 I think it's just me and others not being able to understand that level of stupid. Trying to attribute some level of intelligence where there was none to be found. It's so dumbfounding it's unbelievable.
So what you’re saying is, the front fell off?
56:10 Kyle can read just fine. He read the whole 191 pages. He's doing a lot of us a favor. Chatter doesn't understand summarizing. Kyle, your content standards are above and beyond. That guy in chat has no say whatsoever
I agree that content isn't a democracy, but Kyle saying his "ad libbing" is just adding in names when in fact he's fully changing up words frustrated me so much I stopped watching. He's supposed to be a science communicator but he changed way more than was necessary to help us understand the conversation, and introduced bias (by assuming tone and changing words based on that assumption) where there didn't need to be any. I'd really love him to do better than this. He's a person a lot of people trust and take at his word uncritically (rightly or wrongly). I'm only writing all this out on the 0.0000001% chance that someone who can make a difference sees it...
@@Peinauchocolat Genuine question: How did you conclude that he did not come to the conclusion that _that_ was the tone based on the diction and context? You say he _assumed_ the tone. I don't think it's an assumption -- or at least, not _just_ an assumption -- but I'd be interested to hear your reasoning on that in more detail. I think it's reasonable to conclude with a fairly high degree of confidence what Stockton's tone was in that interview. Is the audio available? That would probably clear up any ambiguity there. It seems to me like Kyle simply applied inference rules based on known human psychology in general and the known psychology of Stockton specifically in order to arrive at a best-fit tone to match the transcript. You know, like a _hypothesis?_ He did explicitly make it clear upfront that the tone was his own impression he got from reading the transcript (he said that a couple times, actually), but that in no way implies that it's just an assumption. If data is used to inform an opinion, then that opinion is more than an assumption.
What tone for Rush's words do you think more parsimoniously fits the transcript than "blasé," "reckless," or "stubborn?" Wouldn't assuming that his tone was _anything else_ be an even greater assumption than assuming his attitude towards safety issues and expert opinions was any different than it had infamously been for years?
I appreciate your concern. Bias is something we should all avoid whenever possible, and you're right. Kyle has a lot of influence including those who are influenced uncritically. That said, I think it's fair to say that many of the word changes were more plausibly due to the fact that the transcript had not been transcribed completely accurately as opposed to an insertion of an "assumed" narrative. Some of the literal diction of the transcript was grammatically incoherent while the underlying semantic content was (I would argue) pretty unambiguous if you account for the most common types of transcription errors. He can't be expected to read word salad out loud when it's almost certainly a transcription error, can he?
That said, there were a few instances where the word changes bothered me (probably more of an OCD thing tbh), but that was mainly normal human gaffs that happen whenever someone reads written text aloud. He spent almost an hour and a half reading stuff aloud while multitasking, and it was a livestream so there's no do-overs if he misreads a word. It's practically inevitable that he would stumble on a few words over that period of time. I can't think of any examples where a word change actually modified the semantic content of the message except for one where he inserted "someone's fault" in place of "(unintelligible) fault." Are there any other specific examples of such that you can recall? Anything you consider particularly egregious?
You seem cool. I like anti-bias nitpickers, personally :p
Dumb arrogant billionaire who got lucky throughout his life thought it would carry on forever. And he took out a handful of people and ruined dozens of lives because of his arrogance.
Rush was no billionaire.. if anything he was in debt.. he catered to billionaires However
If he was a billionaire, why did he buy junk parts to create his 'innovative' POC? His EGO was much larger than his alleged wallet/ATM.
I think this is a great study in human factors. Where there were all the warnings in the world, but you chose to to silence and remove them for your own ego. This will be studied for decades.
Re: “presumed human’ remains”
I have equipment doer grinding and emulsifying muscle, fat, ligaments, bones, skin using compression and sheering forces. The resulting materials are amorphous, gelatinous, a reddish grey paste which still have human DNA for identification purposes but do not resemble people. (The joys of having a USDA Meat Processing Facility.)
Soylent Green is _people?!_
@pubwvj Well, that just convinced me to buy my meat direct from the farm.
Jesus dude, that's not a conversation I'd want to be aware of as a family member. Just tell me they would've died quicker than they'd realize anything was wrong.😢
Except Stockton. I NEED him to be aware of how his hubris resulted in the death of 5 people including himself. That sounds mean, but I have this thing against egotistical a**holes who think they know more than the engineers they hire. Why did you bother Stockton.
It’s impossible to say if they were aware they may be in trouble, there were probably some loud banging noises going on, but Stockton was so used to those he probably told them there was nothing to worry about. And then they were dead before their brains could even register the pain.
I used to work for a company that made carbon fibre parts for automotive applications. Voids weren't even allowed in those parts. So to be so blaise about voids in something that is going down to those depths is insane.
“I think this is one of the safest things that I will ever do”…Stockton Rush…..Ouch, that didn’t age well.
Didn't he also say (boast) "...nobody's going to die on my watch..."?
For F🦆's sake...?!
What the _hell_ was he _thinking_ ???
@@brigidsingleton1596 "What was he thinking" is a question-begging fallacy. He obviously wasn't thinking. He hired people to do that for him, and then he didn't even listen to them when they did precisely what he paid them to do.
@@ThorsDecree
Some questions are asked which require no response... "What was / were he / she / they thinking?!" Is an example of such a question.
@@brigidsingleton1596 are you even more autistic than I am? I know the comment I replied to was rhetorical. I guess you didn't get that my reply was a JOKE? It's funny because it's true....
Gods, I feel SO bad for the former director. He tried so hard to save those lives, and was ignored and threatened as a result. I hope he and his family are okay.
Reading that interview sounds like Rush was suicidal tbh. He couldn't possibly have really been that stupid. It's really strange that he equates something like a sub to flying a plane.
I mean, if something goes wrong with a plan as high up as that sub was deep down, death is probably just as likely...
@RipOffProductionsLLC at the very least you can always hope for a parachute if you fall from high up...down low there's nothing you can really do :/
Rich people really, genuinely are that stupid.
Some people literally think rules do not apply to them. Stockton said in the interview that if the sub failed, he would know who to blame. The idea the sub would fail with him in it or that it would have been able to actually kill him if it did, was not one he would accept. He thought that he could buy fixes, shift blame, bully, or ignore rules until they went away. No one, or at least no one he wanted to listen to, told him that the rules of physics do not care who you are or how much money you have.
You'd be surprised how stupid tech bros are, they are to the point of stupid it's below average, yet people for some reason still think they're genius or something (Elon Musk moment)
1:00:00 I am reminded of something from the Evil Overlord list: "If my advisors ask 'Why are you risking everything on such a mad scheme?', I will not proceed unless I have a response that satisfies them." If someone you hire tells you it's not safe, don't continue until you convince them.
You still remember that!
@@udirt It is a good rule to have if one is in a position of power, in fact many of them are good rules. I did have to look it up though, to get it right.
The good ole days of the internet 🫡
I love these, feels like im studying with a teacher. I feel like the slow pace helps me process and retain more.
"It doesn't just implode." -Todd Howard or something
Hahaha
It just works
57:35 the "am I going to die" part
"but am I gonna die though?"
lol, lmao. yeah.
Rush by name, Rush by nature.....actually insane how this has happened! He might of done it to himself but to put other people's lives at risk, it's terrible! I guess he paid the ultimate price, but I do wish he faced some justice and had to face up to what he did 😠
He "innovated" a way to turn people into a chunky soup in under 30 milliseconds. Such callous disregard for life and safety, all for profit.
At nearing 4000 ft? Not even chunky. This is getting hit by the whole Evergiven at highway speed.
this guy was more like bezos. musk has never launched himself in one of his own rockets that i'm aware of.
Of course! He doesn’t have the guts to risk his own neck…
@@notajp well he tests. i would too. that's what the experts are for. doesn't seem that unreasonable lol. i hear living is a solid business decision XD.
Workers worry for their livelihoods; the rich worry about their image.
The fact that Rush mentions "bringing my body back" at all, tells me that his understanding of the physical forces at play were very poor. 😮
Honestly if he had any understanding at all none of this would have happened because he would have known what he was doing was wrong. He put his ego before the lives of those people.
This is just like trying to reason with my narcissistic father. It’s like talking to a brick wall. Complete and total shut down of all reasoning faculties.
Being the most macho man is the reason women live longer.
ACKSHUALLY, testosterone is linked to cardiovascular disease, a major killer; XX chromosomes contain duplicate genes while XY chromosomes don't, thus making females' genomes more resilient to harmful mutations over a lifetime; and suicide rates for men are WAY higher than for women (about 4x in USA and 2x worldwide).
It's still a good joke nonetheless, I cracked a grin. I'm just too autistic to read that and not reply with the actual reasons just in case anyone who didn't know it was a joke took your statement at face value.
Someone in the chat called him "Icurus in a sub"
Comment of the year IMHO
I'm going to try to find the comment again so that master wordsmith may be properly credited.
58:37 i get the feeling Stockton was getting tired of every expert telling him different ways this would fail that he just started to shut down any person that tried to be safe about it
Yeah, can happen if one's just too incompetent to get it done right
Rush did the hubris thing that humans have done forever: forgot to respect the power of the ocean. Smh...
Stockton Rush is the supervillain CEO that we see in Hollywood films.
I love how Rush keeps mentioning Boeing. Like it’s a bastion of quality 😂😂😂
I genuinely believe that he had a head injury or a tumor or something that people heal from, but it drastically shifts personality/reasonable thinking. Watching the older clips of him being more sane, (like the og yellow fully legal submersible days in the beginning of his company) and then the sudden shift into wanting to be some deep sea engineer/daredevil makes me genuinely uncomfortable, like WHAT HAPPENED TO HIM?
One of the witnesses said something along those lines... 'but then something changed within Oceangate' (and they cancelled their testing plans etc)
For the morbidly curious like myself, look at the autopsy photos from the Byford Dolphin incident. While doing so, keep in mind that this trauma resulted from the rapid decompression with a difference of only 14 atmospheres, as opposed to the 380 involved in the Titan implosion. 14 vs. 380. Let your imagination fill in the blanks from there.
If Rush was the only one in that submersible, I would be laughing. He wasn’t the only one in that death trap. He effectively murdered several people, including a teenager, because he couldn’t look past his own nose and his brain was smoother than Mr Clean’s head.
I feel like this submarine went down the same exact unremarkably classic way every other company goes down. Leadership has too much ego and doesn't want to listen to someone below them who has more experience. Thus leadership fired the experienced people and replace them with yes men who are less experienced and have no backbone. It's so stupid and typical that I don’t even feel sorry.
Elon Musk, anyone?
"It doesn't just implode.'" -Mr. Rush, the only man who hasn't seen the coke can imploding experiment
The guy responding "sometimes is" was the coolest thing. If they ever make a movie about this disaster, that line will be in the film, 100%.
"Was this incompetence or Hubris?"
Yes
I almost feel the remains of the sub need to be in a museum. It's now part of the world's biggest historical turning points
Everytime the response 'I understand' appears I just picture someone saying 'So!' and shrugging their shoulders.
As for the investigation I'm not sure it will really reveal much in the way of new information, rather it will just reveal a deeper level and understanding of existing information.
This is amazing to follow along, especially for engineering students still in college.
During your capstone project, you will be assigned to a customer with real world needs and you will be going through the entire R&D process while also doing meetings with the involved client.
Sometimes your partners or even clients will be uncooperative and you will have to navigate through that.
This part of the case is where engineering ethics become a major talking point despite being a subject often glossed over. Definitely a lecture’s worth of discussion.