I think you've hit the nail on the head, comparing prog-rock and jazz fusion, seeing the former as quintessentially British and the latter as contemporaneous and characteristically American in nature.
Oh, I think Pere Ubu are Prog. They said their biggest influences were Velvet Underground and King Crimson. I don't like the VU but they did have progressive elements in their music.
I remember watching two music pundits discussing Prog. One of them referred to Styx as Prog. The second pundit responded, "Well, Styx was more Broadway than Prog way." There is something to that. Denis DeYoung's aesthetic seems to veer much closer to schmaltzy musical than "Close to the Edge."
I think you underrate Kansas a bit. They definitely should be Top 3. And regarding the "musical individuality" of their members, I'd say the Walsh vocals are pretty unique and almost unparalleled in range. There is also Steinhardt's violin which adds a unique mix into the formula. Livgren's guitar work does have a very country bluesy sound, very close to the Allman Brothers', similar case to the rhythm section as a whole, except for Ehart's drumming, of whom I believe is a superior version of Peart in terms of technicality. Ehart is without a doubt (next to Walsh's singing) the most stand out musical aspect of Kansas imo. Dude plays with such precision and technicality, he seems like a drum machine but with more soul than Peart imo. Ehart seems like a clear precursor of prog metal drummers, but with the enhanced sound of the other band members' country blues sound mixed with symphonic elements, something bands like Tool or DT def lacks. And their first 4 albums are masterpieces, almost pure bangers without fluff, and some of those bangers are ultimate prog rock stuff of legend. The only reason they are not regarded a top prog band is because their prog adventures went unnoticed in America and Europe was busy enjoying their own prog and also entertaining the silliness of punk and "post-prog" (yeah, "post punk" should REALLY be named "post prog"). Kansas is a MASSIVELY underrated american prog band.
Styx with the last 2 albums have turned out straight up Progessive. The Mission and Crash of the crown. They have even teamed up with Alan Parsons for a tune.
Saga was an unapologetic prog band. Instrumental excellence, compositional complexity, always on the technological cutting edge . They were popular in Europe and toured Europe extensively. They even had their share of radio hits in Canada.
Absolutely agree. They’re huge in Germany. They had a totally unique approach..I’ve heard rush say that it was their influence that caused them to move away from hemispheres-like 20 minute epics to a tighter 5 minute songs more focused on composition on Moving Pictures..
Listening to the recent '88 tour album in the car today. The levels of playing he pushed that band to were incredible. Oh and four John Lennon covers and one Zeppelin. Maybe Zappa appreciated the English aesthetic!
@@markspooner1224 we got a full "I Am The Walrus" (Ike owned this) and the "Texas Motel" medley. I did not really get the politics at the time but found out later. Interesting that Zappa picked four John Lennon songs but they had jammed together.
I really like your videos. They have led me to artists I wasn’t aware of and of course confirmed my love of jazz fusion. I was lucky enough to see Mahavishnu, Weather Report, Return to Forever, Herbie Hancock, etc. during their peak years and love that music. There is a genre of music that I haven’t heard you mention that is absolutely fusion and includes many jazz elements, and that is for lack of a better phrase “Hillbilly Jazz”. The most prominent practitioners today are Bella Fleck and the Flectones. They are an incredible fusion band with Country, Old Time, jazz, Indian and other World Music combined. Maybe because it’s more acoustic based, and has a lot of America traditional music it doesn’t seem to count in discussions of fusion or jazz. However this was some of the first fusion going back to before Bob Wills and the Texas Playboys and continuing to the present. Bob Willis was the first band that was allowed to play at the Grand Ole Opery with drums. He also had horns and electric guitar and electric mandolin. He loved Bessie Smith and played a fusion of Swing jazz called Western Swing. I could go on but for the sake of time there are a couple of bands and artists who should be mentioned. Dave Grisman, Tony Rice, Sam Bush, The New Grass Revival, Jethro Burns, etc. Two albums that stand out are Sauerkraut and Solar Energy with Dave Holland and Hillbilly Jazz with Vassar Clements. Both of those albums were recorded in the mid seventies. You can also hear some of these influences in early Dixie Dregs. If you read this comment I hope you’ll check some of this music out. Some really great and overlooked music. Also love the references to Gurdjieff and Ouspensky in earlier videos.
Hello Andy. Do you know this incredible album : The Hapless Child (And Other Inscrutable Stories) with Robert Wyatt and ... Michael Mantler, Nick Mason (speaker), Albert Caulder (speaker), Alfreda Benge (speaker), Terje Rypdal (guitar), Carla Bley (clavichord), Carla Bley (piano), Carla Bley (synthesizer), Jack DeJohnette (drums & percussion), Steve Swallow (bass guitar) ?
What are you talking about Andy??? Kansas had an ABSOLUTELY personal sonic identity. You’re wrong when you say "you don't get that from them." Then you probably have mud in your ears! If you hear 8 bars of Kansas you know EXACTLY what band it is anywhere between 1974-1979 in particular. In the case of Kansas it is really irrelevant whether the individual players have an "iconic" sonic identity in comparison with individual British progressive musicians because COLLECTIVELY Kansas had an INSTANTLY recognizable sonic identity. COLLECTIVELY is what matters here.
Spirit Of Christmas album Lies To Live By in 1974, probably the finest prog album from Canada at that time , influenced Rush. Bob Bryden is an unsung rock n roll crazy who started up the psychedelic band Reign Ghost (2 albums) before forming Christmas (2 albums) which morphed into Spirit Of Christmas. He also produced punk band The Forgotten Rebels. Cheers. BTW Quebec is chock full of progressive bands, but the language barrier kept them insular.
Ha! You asked what would Zappa's prog album be and I immediately said, "One Size Fit All." And then you said (first, anyway), "One Size Fits All." And I said, "Yayyyyy!!!" Also, as a fellow Andy, you have to appreciate the greatness of Andy.
The Muffins, Thinking Plague, Tortoise, Miriodor, Godspeed You Black Emperor, and Maneige to name a few could be seen as less mainstream, (and more progressive) than many of the named artists. This one really missed an opportunity to throw some light on quite a lot of great stuff that too often gets overlooked.
Hey Andy! Totally agree about Zappa. Perfect example of being "progressive" as a concept and not a musical style. For this reason, I am once again disappointed you left Ambrosia off the list. Everyone knows How Much I Feel, Biggest Part of Me and You're the Only Woman, but the same band that did these yacht rock classics also did a lot prog and fusion. The title track "Life Beyond LA" is classic prog and tracks like "Mama Frog" have spoken word poetry (a la Moody Blues) and avant jazz jams. They were conceptually progressive and definitely worth a listen if you are not familiar...
Re: British aesthetic - many British prog musicians have classical and choral influences as well as proper music and singing education. And they have that self-deprecating sense of humour that spills over to the likes of Rush and the Guess Who. You describe British prog aesthetic as possessing humour and whimsy and being pastoral and self-deprecating. By comparison I would say American music tends to lean toward macho, loud and nihilistic...like the culture. First American prog artiste? Can't argue about Zappa, though 'Freak Out' was viewed as a counter culture statement at the time, not a serious piece of music. However, the prog aesthetic as it came to be rose up from the influence of the Vanilla Fudge, particularly their debut album. That quartet inspired Deep Purple, Yes Jethro Tull and others with its Hammond organ, great vocals, soaring harmonies, abilities to arrange tunes (theirs and those of others they covered), proficiency and dexterity as players.... Vanilla Fudge were the start of that. And yes, Todd Rundgren! I'm surprised to see him listed though grateful that you 'get' him. He said he formed Utopia so he could get back to playing more guitar. And yes, he was influenced by Laura Nyro, his girlfriend in the early 70s...someone whose talent prompted him to stand up and realise his own. As for 'Something/Anything?', I wouldn't call that 'art rock'. Like the Beatles 'White Album', the two discs comprising Todd's album served up a wide range of musical styles...from the raucous abandon of 'Slut' to the brilliant pop of 'I Saw the Light', to the charming love paen 'Marlene' to the dark and moody 'Black Maria'. And on three of the four sides everything - writing, production, engineering, playing - was all him (IMO he does a much better job than Paul McCartney). The fourth side included player like drummer Billy Mundi (Zappa's Mothers, Rhinoceros...), the Brecker brothers on horns, Moogy Klingman, John Siomos (Curtis Mayfield, Peter Frampton...) and Rick Derringer (the McCoys, Johnny and Edgar Winter etc.) I too never appreciated Styx. Then I saw a DVD of the lads playing with a school orchestra...which was great. They even did a killer version of the Beatles' I am the 'Walrus'. Here is a drum cam with Todd Sucherman doing his thing on the band's hit, 'Blue Collar Man'. ua-cam.com/video/rNTlwjDxxk8/v-deo.html
The first album by Pavlov's Dog, "Pampered Menial", would be my choice for a good North American prog album. (The second, even though Bill Bruford was sessioning on it, was more pop song/Beatlesy.) Kind of obscure but were, for some reason, well known in Australia.
Those who only know the band Journey as an AOR behemoth might be surprised to hear their eponymous debut album, without Steve Perry on vocals. As guitarist Neal Schon described it, on the instrumental tracks they were attempting to be a kind of "mini-Mahavishnu." Similar to the experience Andy describes with some of the records on his list, I heard this album and said, "Well, that's neat," and moved on. But it does have the fabulous Aynsley Dunbar on drums . . .
Dude, you are AWESOME!! MY absolute choice for #1 as well. He's my ULTRA-HERO. Here are some other bands who were not categorized as prog rock but, in fact, were very progressive, The Doors, The Velvet Underground and KC And The Sunshine Band.
The Cuneiform label has done a massive amount to promote innovative American progressive rock - Thinking Plague, 5uu's, Motor Totemist Guild, U Totem, Dr. Nerve, Present, Curlew, Siamese Stepbrothers, etc.
Unfortunately for Prog, none of these people sold as well as the Jazz artists, Cuneiform signed. I interviewed Mr. Feigenbaum a few years back and he was switching to jazz before he had to cease new product development. MoonJune is also a really great label for Prog and Fusion.
Present re of course, a Belgian group led by the late great composer Roger Trigaux who earlier played with the seminal chamber/ rio band Univers Zero. About as far from American rock as you can get!
@@garygomesvedicastrology Yes, in fact I used the term “rio” in my description and Daniel Denis does lay down some rock rhythms. Still, Rock in Opposition was a movement rather than a specific genre but perhaps it has evolved into a genre. These categories are vague and elastic and in my view it is debatable in terms of what is rock, what is progressive etc. Informed, intelligent people could have an interesting debate or discussion on this. The genealogy of rock is usually considered early blues + folk + electricity = rock. Univers Zero and rio bands (and many progressives) bring in classical, avant-garde, jazz etc. into the mix.
@@wjstephens4654 I don't think of RIO as a specific genre at all. I was a political and aesthetic alliance of several bands that were just oddities or didn't fit into any niche in their own countries. Only Zammla and Henry Cow's long improvisations show any common elements between bands. Univers Zero had a tangential connection with Magma because Daniel Denis played with Magma as a second drummer for a time. But in general I dislike categories in music. When I was listening in the 1970s in college and a bit later, subcategories started to evolve, but I just looked at it as bands using different reference points as inspiration. That was how a lot of this started. A lot of bands in the late 1970s through 1990's used RIO bands as inspiration, but there is no unified style of music that evolved from that movement-at least not in my opinion. I dislike over classifying music and saying this is not rock or jazz or whatever. I understand why people want to do it, but to me it just balkanizes music into more and more camps. And, to me, it's just music. I was just joking when I mentioned ROCK IN OPPOSITION. I really dislike the fact that music has become so segmented. It bothers me because music, in my opinion, should bring people together to experience new things. Just my opinion...
Thanks for all you do Andy. Listened to a favorite from my teenage self - A wizard a true star - first time in years. Just one victory is a song we should keep close, keep in our lives. You rock Andy…… or should I say “You Prog Andy” ?
I think Triumph are often overlooked,especially their early albums.They drifted into bombastic metal later on and,perhaps ,ran out of ideas I dunno...great vid as usual Andy much love
If you broaden "America" beyond North America, there's some great prog out of the southern hemisphere, including Seru Giran, La Máquina de Hacer Pájaros, and any number of early Luis Alberto Spinetta projects (and that's just limiting it to Argentina).
I am so glad that I discovered your channel. Your riff on jazz in America and prog rock is really interesting. What is your take on the declining popularity of jazz in America. As an American, it drives me to despair at times.
Some U.S. bands that also are prog: Dixie Dregs, Crack the Sky (from Baltimore) and currently - Umphrees Magee - an excellent outfit! Interesting list, and Happy The Man unexpected - I did see them back in the day
Many thanks for this and every other video you put out...I really enjoy listening to you...I also find that we share similar tastes in the prog genre and similarly I find many American prog bands to be missing a crucial element in what I find enjoyable when listening to a British prog band for instance... You wisely call this British aesthetic and I have been waiting for your video on this ( I've left comments in the past asking for a video on what you describe as British aesthetic) ... Here I find your comment on a "second progressive rock era " of the early 90's very very interesting...and I'm here to ask if you could make a video about that... I'd imagine a lot of your followers feel the same. Thanks again!
Thank you for recognizing Happy The Man. Deserving of the list of best list! Do consider the delightful connection between Stanley Whitaker and Gentle Giant- as well as the interesting tid-bit regarding Peter Gabriel and HTM. Stanley is HTM founding member and guitarist. Exciting news on the very near horizon. Thank you Sir.
Great video Andy. I have to say, I just can't get in to Zappa - I've tried several times but the "whimsy" and inconsistency just irritates me and kills it for me. You also navigated the whole US / America thing quite well. Did you know that, at one point, the United States was nearly named Colombia? (after Christopher Columbus). It would have made things a bit simpler, I would say (well, until the other Colombia came about hahaha).
When you mention Britishness in relation to Prog rock, then I guess that's the main reason I favour Italian bands any time, and mostly for their sense of melody, drama, and their stronger connections with hard rock.
Andy, a few bands I recommend you check out as American Prog 1. Happy the Man 2. The Muffins 3. Captain Beefheart 4. The Residents 5. Absolute Zero (they had Pip Pyle as a drummer for a bit but were American) 6. Pere Ubu 7. There were at least a dozen groups in the United States that were influenced by RIO. 8. The United States of America 9. Fifty Foot Hose 10. Spirit
When I was a kid in the 70s , Monty Python, Bless Me Father, Fawlty Towers , Two Ronnie's, The Saint, The Prisoner and dozens of other UK tv programs ran on tv through the whole decade on the CBC , the national broadcaster. The CBC was modelled on the BBC. The cultural aesthetic were very much tailored to the British aesthetic . Not surprising that Rush would take on those ideals.
I think that Progressive Rock is rooted in history, myth and legend - things that America has much less of than Britain and Europe. It would be interesting to hear American prog musicians using their own history as a basis for their music. Songs about the pioneering spirit, the building of the roads and railways, the gold rush, the various battles fought with the British, French and Spanish, and between themselves would provide a rich source of content. It would be much more interesting, at least to me, than listening to the likes of Ronnie James Dio scream about fairies.
Kartël, o whatever the right title is, is the recently released Magma album. Here's my favorite track out of it : ua-cam.com/video/XdN51xv_WEE/v-deo.html Very addictive ! And very easy to listen to.
Amusingly, when GFR added a fourth member it was Craig Frost who had previously led an acid rock band called Frost. Not the first time a band name has been reused.
As an American, I agree with a lot of what you said. And I too stepped away from prog in late 70s for punk, new wave and art rock. I was not impressed by the neo and metal prog bands, they didn't do much for me. I love bands which are more "alternative" and dabble with facets of prog. I still stand by Talking Heads' Remain In Light as a top progressive album. Here are some other honorable mentions: Midlake - whimsical, pastoral but not aping anyone. Check out the song "Feast of Carrion" as a taster. The Decemberist - they have the humor. Check out the song "The Island" from The Crane Wife. My Morning Jacket's "In it's Infancy (The Waterfall), Wilco's "The Art of Almost" is a freak out. My point, there are still American bands pushing boundaries, which aren't in the prog bubble, making great music. Unfortunately, they don't get the exposure they deserve. PS - I love the new Rain release, and I still have the first one on heavy rotation in my car...
"Art of Almost," such an amazing track! A particularly underrated prog-experimental-art rock band was The Standard from Washington state (early 2000's).
The Mars Volta have a huge hardcore/post-hardcore hectic energetic vibe to them, so I guess the more traditional prog listeners (Yes, Genesis, Gentle Giant) will have some more difficulty listening to them. I hear King Krimson and Mahavishnu jazz influences as well, but don't forget these guys came from At the Drive-In.
I knew someone who played for The Mars Volta at one point, their sound is highly influenced by technical post-hardcore like NoMeansNo & the more avant-garde side of prog like Magma & Henry Cow. They fused those 2 worlds together along w/ some Latin and jazz fusion & created pure insanity. Probably my favorite modern prog group due to “Frances the Mute” alone.
Great Rush story, Andy! I think you've put your finger on the Canadian Prog perspective: self-deprecating humour. (If you look at the number of comedians and comic writers that have come out of The Great White North, you'll see we punch way above our weight.) This comes, I think, from a type of 'younger brother syndrome', a need to "not be seen as American". We are secretly in awe of the US but feel the need to compensate through satire. Add in a heightened relationship with the land, nature and (yes) the weather and you're even closer. Historically, besides our English overlords, the Scots, Irish and French have brought their own anti-establishment flavours. More and more, we are tapping into a very funny Indigenous culture and, moving forward, will feel the influence of all the recent and new cultures that are finding a home here.
Los Jaivas should definitely be on the list, they are the biggest south american prog band ever! Harmonium should also be on the list they are probably the most important canadian prog band along with Rush. Bubu is another great band from Argentina, they only released one album in 1978 called anabelas but that's an amazing album! I don't think Styx belongs on the list, I think they are more AOR than prog.
Among the not mentioned : 1- David Sancious and Tone 2- The Muffins 3- Master Cylinder 4- Yezda Urfa 5- Echolyn 6- A Triggering Myth 7- The Underground Railroad 8- Thinking Plague 9- 5 UU's 10- Nathan Mahl
I'm mainly a Todd fan but never really got the prog Utopia era, just seems like noodling...I much prefer the pop rock Utopia when they were like an American version of Queen
Happy the Man is not just an instrumental band. There is some amount of singing on their albums. Also worth mentioning is that they were produced by famous English producer/engineer Ken Scott (Supertramp, Mahavishnu Orchestra…) which gives them an ‘English’ sound.
ANYONE is the greatest prog band to ever emerge from the americas. listen to the album called 'In Humanity' and when you do, remember that the entire album was performed by one man. the band was originally formed by Taylor Hawkins and Jon Davison along with the only remaining member, the musical genius Riz Story. total mind blow
How would you rate someone like Captain Beefheart? As Don had no instrumental abilities (other than a bit of harmonica) or knowledge of musical theory, but he did have a singular musical vision and surrounded himself with top notch musicians in the Magic Band who could bring them to fruition.
Great video. When at the end you were giving credit to one individual…I knew exactly who you were going to name. But could there be any other answer but Frank!
Watching videos like this, or reading on the topic, I often wonder why there is no love at all for the group Pavlov's Dog? Are they not prog enough, were they too obscure, career too short? I mean, they had flute, violin, mellotron, majestic melodies, crazy vocals, even Bill Bruford bashing drums on their second album. Pampered Menial is a perfect (or near perfect, if you want) album, the other ones aren't half bad either. The Prog Archives site regards them as "one of the most influential progressive bands from USA". So, what's the deal? Btw, this is not criticism, just me wondering. I enjoy very much Andy's rants. Peace out.
some of the things he ascribes to Canada exist in the US - albeit more regionally. The northeast in particular understands that sense of humour a bit better than many other regions (and sarcasm) - not necessarily due to a longer Western history but but perhaps due to large waves of Irish immigration. Monty Python and FT were well known in New England when I was a kid.
"One Size Fits All" is, to my mind, the absolute best Zappa album [and the greatest American prog album, hands down]. The reason it eclipses his other albums is very simple. "One Size Fits All" is the only Zappa album that completely avoids retro-cringy-ness. If we're being honest, a lot of the Zappa catalog has not aged well. The music might be there, but the lyrics come off like an incel's podcast. Most of his albums have flashes of pure brilliance ["Moving to Montana"] sandwiched between songs that were hilarious back in the day but now sound sophomoric, mean-spirited and/or just plain creepy ["Dynamo Hum"]. "One Size" is like his one "adult" album that you could listen to with your mom in the room [which I did quite often as a teen]. I mean, "Inca Roads," with its zig-zag time signatures, compressed melodicism, beautifully meandering wah-wah guitar solo, and lunatic lyrics, is the quintessential Zappa track. "San Bernardino" is a genre-busting romp, "Andy" is expansive and lush. And "Pojama People" offers classic Zappa cynicism and humor without all the sixth-grade-notebook imagery.
I think the English aesthetic as channeled via prog does come through a bit more in Canadian bands than American due to Canada’s Commonwealth cultural connections. One Canadian band deserving of mention is Klaatu.
There's so much I could say in reaction to this video. I'll try to keep it short. I grew up in a "music desert" in the American Midwest. In the 70s I didn't know what Prog Rock was. I called bands like Genesis and Yes Art Rock. I didn't know genres. It just sounded like art to me. All I knew of Zappa was some of the humorous songs. Styx, to me, along with many other US bands, sounded over-produced, formulaic. In hind sight, I wish I would of taken a chance on Todd Rundgren at the record stores. I did like Kansas' Masque album, and I would add Triumph to your list. And maybe Hendrix, too. You really have to stretch the definition of Prog to find it in the US. You credit British Prog with the "English Aesthetic" and your probably right about its importance. But I also think there is an educational difference. The British Prog musicians seem to have experienced a more formal training. It shows in the composition and musical skill. In America, there just wasn't much cutting edge music. It was commercial and I'm not proud of this.
America's just not the place to look for good prog. The cutting -edge American bands were ones like The Stooges, The Velvet Underground, and Television, who were far more avant-garde, and far less commercial, than the prog bands. They also tended not to tour with laser light shows and smoke machines.
@@Emlizardo Thank you for the reply. I started following Andy to learn what I missed the first time through. I liked Iggy and, more recently have been listening to the Velvets. But somehow Television eluded my radar. I'll definitely be giving them a listen. Thanks again!
Andy - I'm from the northeast of America - and Monty Python and Prog were always popular in this part of America. To understand why, I suggest you read Albion's Seed by David Hackett.
I also consider 1983… (A Merman I Should Turn to Be) by the Jimi Hendrix Experience to be an even earlier example of a fantastic psychedelic prog composition from 1968.
What do you think of The Flaming Lips, who to my ear sound often so much like Yes, and their record "The Soft Bulletin." Also, why isn't Boston prog? Songs too short? Not sufficently mystical or thematic?
Please check out Touch. They were a West coast band who made just one record in 1969-70. Their fantastic songs were matched only by their technical brilliance.
I've not heard many of the bands on your list so it was a very interesting listen. However, as a prog rock listener since the late 60's I would have included Santana / Journey as I was hooked from Abraxas onwards. Richard
Pardon. I'm listening to the Roundabout album for the first time since 1975, on cheap ($19 plus change) headphones for the third time today. It bloody bangs, as the kids say. Heres a little Bruford...ua-cam.com/video/AbCpI--0phk/v-deo.html - yup.
I've never found a way into Zappa, Rush are easily number 1 for me followed by Kansas and a huge gulf before I reach Dream Theater and the likes of Spock's Beard. Styx only had 1 or 2 proggy albums before descending into sugary pop.
There was no time left to go through the list once again and tell which ones you don't care so much about as the others, but I believe that it would've been: Dream Theater, Tool, Styx, Mars Volta, (perhaps Spock's Beard)
As a guy from the US whose experience with the UK is limited to a couple of Heathrow layovers, I realized about 15 years ago that all of my favorite bands were not just English, but the most English of the English...not just prog bands but also bands like the Kinks. So when I started hearing you talk about the "English Aesthetic," I got what you were driving at right away. As far as I know, Kansas came about as close as any US band to creating prog like the English did, but it just lacks that fundamental ingredient. The American aesthetic, on the other hand, consists largely of a drive to make money, and I think it was American bands more than anyone else who turned progressive rock from an ethos to a genre, designed to be consumed by the masses, with its composition overseen by focus groups. Starcastle studied Yes and gave us a poppier version of that band. (We have to share some blame with the Germans, who gave us Triumvirat, who did the same thing to ELP.)
I think Triumvirat were very different from ELP. They used horns & background vocals. Seems to me that Keith in particular was very blues-R & B influenced, where Triumvirat leaned towards jazz. Both mixed classical and rock elements of course.
@@patbarr1351 My mention of Triumvirate was a bit tongue-in-cheek, but Jürgen Fritz certainly patterned his keyboard sounds after Emerson and borrowed numerous keyboard and bass licks from the band. I don't know that he was any more jazz-influenced than Emerson, but I agree that their compositions were where the two band differed (and the singers--I preferred Helmut Köllen's beautiful, Cat Stevens-ish voice to Lake's). There was less going on harmonically in Triumvirate's music and their melodies, I think, tended to be catchier. I don't mean to denigrate Triumvirat. They were fine musicians and I like their best work, especially "Spartacus." To paraphrase Stravinsky, "If you're going to steal, steal from the best."
@@Hydrocorax Thanks for taking a moment to reply. I didn't mean to lump you into the category with my parents, who thought the Stones sounded just like the Beatles!
I'll agree with putting Styx on a list of US prog bands. I understand that many people wouldn't put them in the top 10, but I think it's reasonable to have them at least in the top 20. They started out reasonably prog, then went more-and-more AOR, and then came out _"Kilroy Was Here",_ which was pretty awful IMO. But then Dennis DeYoung is gone, and in Styx's later years they realize there's no way they could get another top-10 hit. So their more recent albums have back to more progressive music. Another group that people might want to consider is CAST . There are at least 8-10 groups named Cast, but this is: _"Mexican symphonic progressive rock band founded in Mexicali, Mexico in 1978. Keyboard player Luis Alfonso Vidales is founder and engine as well as with long time member Jose Antonio Bringas on drums the musical constant from the first official release 1994 until now."_ I'm not saying they deserve to be in the top 10, but I do think some people would find them very enjoyable. They've released over 20 albums; some are sung in English, some are sung in Spanish.
The U.S. band that I believe has probably the most English Aesthetic that made two albums in the 70s is Fireballet. Ethos made a couple of almost pre-new age type prog albums. And what about Max Webster ? maybe not full on prog but they dive in a lot.
There are some very cool Argentinian prog bands - Arco Iris, Pescado Rabioso and Almendra come to mind immediately. All that ended when the junta took over in 1974 - 75?
First result of my chatgpt prompt Kansas, Styx, Protokaw Jasper Wrath, Cathedral, Happy The Man, Mother Mallard's Portable Masterpiece Company, Captain Beyond, Early Journey, Starcastle, Carmen (mixed with Brits), Aviary, Dixie Dregs, Pavlov's Dog, Yezda Urfa, Crack The Sky, Zappa If Zappa why not Adrian Belew (The Bears?) Why not up front Steely Dan?
@@stevejensen5112 AI brings everything to light. If you ask the most progressive rock band by American standards (success, success, success), there is only one answer: The one with the greatest success in terms of sales and audience numbers is Grand Funk Railroad This is how GREATEST is spelled in America
I would include Talking Heads on the list. Maybe an honorable mention for Wall of Voodoo's 1st couple of albums and same for Devo's early work. Those groups all colored outside the lines of the music of their day. (I'm tempted to include The Residents, who were more than one step beyond as their playground was the avant garde.)
@@patbarr1351 i agree that they are definitely progressive in the standard sense of the word and also fantastic bands, but as with most genres and most words in general, the term "prog/progressive rock" has absorbed a specific meaning with specific characteristics ! It is my understanding that when we say prog we arent simply talking about bands and artists that were progressive, we are talking about bands that follow a specific tradition of music, nd the artists you mentioned come from different cultural contexts from the one commonly associated with prog, in my opinion. And i do acknowledge that bands like devo and the talking heads had close ties to that context and have definitely taken notes of what the prog rock artists were doing, but i think that they were part of something bigger and new. Sorry for the smug tone of my initial response !!
@@S728-u9x Seems like lately "prog" has come to equal what used to be called "techno-rock" in 'zines like Melody Maker. IOW synthesizers and guitars played at high velocity. There were classic '70's artists that were worlds away from that style, including Kate Bush, Peter Gabriel & Hawkwind. It's a big tent. (And I'm up for a little "smug" now & then!)
In regards to "Prog rock"... didn't the music precede the label? Wasn't the label created by the British rock press? Wasn't it (especially at the start) an offshoot from the Beatles? All that being said, I pretty much agree with you-but again "prog rock" was label created to be put on something which already existed and was British (not just English)- so no wonder there were so many fewer American "prog" bands and fewer still which were both good AND original. Also, I think many American bands wandered in and out of "prog-ness" and weren't concerned about keeping to the classically British prog sensibility. Talking Heads (especially "Remain In Light") gets mentioned, but of course there's the "unAmerican" influence of both David Byrne and Brian Eno.Another band which could be considered prog and was very American are the Dixie Dregs. They started in the mid 70s and actually had one big radio hit in the early 80s ("Bloodsucking Leeches") There was certainly humor in what they did, but being a strictly instrumental band, I think it usually went over the audience's heads. A perfect example of an American band wandering (or plowing?) into prog and then away again is Killdozer's "Uncompromising War On Art Under The Dictatorship Of The Proletariat". (and of course there's humor there-but not necessarily humour). Listen to the guitar in that album (from 1994) and tell me if it doesn't sound like King Crimson at their noisiest-and it isn't simply copying. Other punk (from Canada!) that wanders in and out of prog is No Means No. OK it can be fun to create labels and discuss/argue over them-but remember, labels are primarily A MARKETING TOOL.
I like Mars Volta due to a skint stint in a small village in Asia, where I only had a bunch of Mars Volta mp3s. OK, well, takes a while, but you can learn to really like some of it.. Not all.. The local ghosts liked it.. 😮 In the 70s in Canada there was a short period when Styx was on every stereo, blasting out across the neighborhoods.. Happy the Man is brilliant..I like it better then the Bruford stuff, except Fainting in Coils and Back to the Beginning..
I think the English aesthetic is somewhere deep in the American marrow, and that this is why there's been not just fandom, but something you could rightly call Love for bands like the Beatles (and "all the rest" that came after them) - because it's something that resonates. Maybe it's a relic of simpler times, before the great cities fully took over? Somewhere in the primeval America before civilization took over is this funny English something that sometimes pops its head up. (It maybe takes something like a Monty Python's Flying Circus to bring it out). So being English is kind of like being a bit of a genetic throwback, is what I suppose I'm saying.
I would add that Rush were two guys descended from European immigrants and a real Anglophile drummer he lived here for a while. And they wrote about hobbits in the early days. Blew my mind seeing them at 14!
Im not american and Utopia is my favorite progressive band at the moment, I dont care if its american or british....Oops,Wrong Planet is the best prog album ever made (for me)
What a weird comment about Oops. I was also surprised when AE classified it, along with Adventures, as a prog album. Both are rather ecclectic pop rock albums to my ears. For me, only the first 3 Utopia are prog : TR's Utopia, Another Live and Ra. But you can't help but notice the last one is already shifting towards less complex pop rock songs.
I think you've hit the nail on the head, comparing prog-rock and jazz fusion, seeing the former as quintessentially British and the latter as contemporaneous and characteristically American in nature.
For a band who aren't necessarily Prog, but are certainly proressive in the Henry Cow sense of the phrase, Pere Ubu deserve a mention.
Ubu, like Sparks, get longevity points in my book. David Thomas has shown incredible devotion to the Ubu vision.
Oh, I think Pere Ubu are Prog. They said their biggest influences were Velvet Underground and King Crimson. I don't like the VU but they did have progressive elements in their music.
I remember watching two music pundits discussing Prog. One of them referred to Styx as Prog. The second pundit responded, "Well, Styx was more Broadway than Prog way." There is something to that. Denis DeYoung's aesthetic seems to veer much closer to schmaltzy musical than "Close to the Edge."
I think you underrate Kansas a bit. They definitely should be Top 3. And regarding the "musical individuality" of their members, I'd say the Walsh vocals are pretty unique and almost unparalleled in range. There is also Steinhardt's violin which adds a unique mix into the formula. Livgren's guitar work does have a very country bluesy sound, very close to the Allman Brothers', similar case to the rhythm section as a whole, except for Ehart's drumming, of whom I believe is a superior version of Peart in terms of technicality. Ehart is without a doubt (next to Walsh's singing) the most stand out musical aspect of Kansas imo. Dude plays with such precision and technicality, he seems like a drum machine but with more soul than Peart imo.
Ehart seems like a clear precursor of prog metal drummers, but with the enhanced sound of the other band members' country blues sound mixed with symphonic elements, something bands like Tool or DT def lacks.
And their first 4 albums are masterpieces, almost pure bangers without fluff, and some of those bangers are ultimate prog rock stuff of legend. The only reason they are not regarded a top prog band is because their prog adventures went unnoticed in America and Europe was busy enjoying their own prog and also entertaining the silliness of punk and "post-prog" (yeah, "post punk" should REALLY be named "post prog").
Kansas is a MASSIVELY underrated american prog band.
Blessings Andy. As a father and a music listening addict, I appreciated you attending to your daughter
Styx with the last 2 albums have turned out straight up Progessive. The Mission and Crash of the crown. They have even teamed up with Alan Parsons for a tune.
Saga was an unapologetic prog band. Instrumental excellence, compositional complexity, always on the technological cutting edge . They were popular in Europe and toured Europe extensively. They even had their share of radio hits in Canada.
Absolutely agree. They’re huge in Germany. They had a totally unique approach..I’ve heard rush say that it was their influence that caused them to move away from hemispheres-like 20 minute epics to a tighter 5 minute songs more focused on composition on Moving Pictures..
Zappa, the gift that keeps on giving.
Listening to the recent '88 tour album in the car today. The levels of playing he pushed that band to were incredible.
Oh and four John Lennon covers and one Zeppelin. Maybe Zappa appreciated the English aesthetic!
@@grahamnunn8998 Funnily enough I saw him in '88, and there were a few Beatles tunes played (not sung).
@@grahamnunn8998 he just hoped that the good Lord would have mercy on the people of England
@@markspooner1224 we got a full "I Am The Walrus" (Ike owned this) and the "Texas Motel" medley. I did not really get the politics at the time but found out later. Interesting that Zappa picked four John Lennon songs but they had jammed together.
@@scoop1178 thankfully the food has improved since 1971!
One of my favorite bands are really amazing Crack The Sky.
I really like your videos. They have led me to artists I wasn’t aware of and of course confirmed my love of jazz fusion. I was lucky enough to see Mahavishnu, Weather Report, Return to Forever, Herbie Hancock, etc. during their peak years and love that music. There is a genre of music that I haven’t heard you mention that is absolutely fusion and includes many jazz elements, and that is for lack of a better phrase “Hillbilly Jazz”. The most prominent practitioners today are Bella Fleck and the Flectones. They are an incredible fusion band with Country, Old Time, jazz, Indian and other World Music combined. Maybe because it’s more acoustic based, and has a lot of America traditional music it doesn’t seem to count in discussions of fusion or jazz. However this was some of the first fusion going back to before Bob Wills and the Texas Playboys and continuing to the present. Bob Willis was the first band that was allowed to play at the Grand Ole Opery with drums. He also had horns and electric guitar and electric mandolin. He loved Bessie Smith and played a fusion of Swing jazz called Western Swing. I could go on but for the sake of time there are a couple of bands and artists who should be mentioned. Dave Grisman, Tony Rice, Sam Bush, The New Grass Revival, Jethro Burns, etc. Two albums that stand out are Sauerkraut and Solar Energy with Dave Holland and Hillbilly Jazz with Vassar Clements. Both of those albums were recorded in the mid seventies. You can also hear some of these influences in early Dixie Dregs. If you read this comment I hope you’ll check some of this music out. Some really great and overlooked music. Also love the references to Gurdjieff and Ouspensky in earlier videos.
Love that posting! Dave Holland meets Bluegrass is a wonderful Record and Vassar Clements i should listen to again. Great Stuff.
Hello Andy. Do you know this incredible album : The Hapless Child (And Other Inscrutable Stories) with Robert Wyatt and ... Michael Mantler, Nick Mason (speaker), Albert Caulder (speaker), Alfreda Benge (speaker), Terje Rypdal (guitar), Carla Bley (clavichord), Carla Bley (piano), Carla Bley (synthesizer), Jack DeJohnette (drums & percussion), Steve Swallow (bass guitar) ?
What are you talking about Andy??? Kansas had an ABSOLUTELY personal sonic identity. You’re wrong when you say "you don't get that from them." Then you probably have mud in your ears! If you hear 8 bars of Kansas you know EXACTLY what band it is anywhere between 1974-1979 in particular. In the case of Kansas it is really irrelevant whether the individual players have an "iconic" sonic identity in comparison with individual British progressive musicians because COLLECTIVELY Kansas had an INSTANTLY recognizable sonic identity. COLLECTIVELY is what matters here.
Spirit Of Christmas album Lies To Live By in 1974, probably the finest prog album from Canada at that time , influenced Rush. Bob Bryden is an unsung rock n roll crazy who started up the psychedelic band Reign Ghost (2 albums) before forming Christmas (2 albums) which morphed into Spirit Of Christmas. He also produced punk band The Forgotten Rebels. Cheers. BTW Quebec is chock full of progressive bands, but the language barrier kept them insular.
Ha! You asked what would Zappa's prog album be and I immediately said, "One Size Fit All." And then you said (first, anyway), "One Size Fits All." And I said, "Yayyyyy!!!" Also, as a fellow Andy, you have to appreciate the greatness of Andy.
The Muffins, Thinking Plague, Tortoise, Miriodor, Godspeed You Black Emperor, and Maneige to name a few could be seen as less mainstream, (and more progressive) than many of the named artists. This one really missed an opportunity to throw some light on quite a lot of great stuff that too often gets overlooked.
Amen.
You may want to add Yezda Urfa, 5 uu's and Sleepytime Gorilla Museum.
This cretin agrees and would throw in Cheer Accident, Curlew and Hamster Theater as well.
Hey Andy! Totally agree about Zappa. Perfect example of being "progressive" as a concept and not a musical style. For this reason, I am once again disappointed you left Ambrosia off the list. Everyone knows How Much I Feel, Biggest Part of Me and You're the Only Woman, but the same band that did these yacht rock classics also did a lot prog and fusion. The title track "Life Beyond LA" is classic prog and tracks like "Mama Frog" have spoken word poetry (a la Moody Blues) and avant jazz jams. They were conceptually progressive and definitely worth a listen if you are not familiar...
Re: British aesthetic - many British prog musicians have classical and choral influences as well as proper music and singing education. And they have that self-deprecating sense of humour that spills over to the likes of Rush and the Guess Who.
You describe British prog aesthetic as possessing humour and whimsy and being pastoral and self-deprecating. By comparison I would say American music tends to lean toward macho, loud and nihilistic...like the culture.
First American prog artiste? Can't argue about Zappa, though 'Freak Out' was viewed as a counter culture statement at the time, not a serious piece of music. However, the prog aesthetic as it came to be rose up from the influence of the Vanilla Fudge, particularly their debut album. That quartet inspired Deep Purple, Yes Jethro Tull and others with its Hammond organ, great vocals, soaring harmonies, abilities to arrange tunes (theirs and those of others they covered), proficiency and dexterity as players.... Vanilla Fudge were the start of that.
And yes, Todd Rundgren! I'm surprised to see him listed though grateful that you 'get' him. He said he formed Utopia so he could get back to playing more guitar. And yes, he was influenced by Laura Nyro, his girlfriend in the early 70s...someone whose talent prompted him to stand up and realise his own.
As for 'Something/Anything?', I wouldn't call that 'art rock'. Like the Beatles 'White Album', the two discs comprising Todd's album served up a wide range of musical styles...from the raucous abandon of 'Slut' to the brilliant pop of 'I Saw the Light', to the charming love paen 'Marlene' to the dark and moody 'Black Maria'. And on three of the four sides everything - writing, production, engineering, playing - was all him (IMO he does a much better job than Paul McCartney). The fourth side included player like drummer Billy Mundi (Zappa's Mothers, Rhinoceros...), the Brecker brothers on horns, Moogy Klingman, John Siomos (Curtis Mayfield, Peter Frampton...) and Rick Derringer (the McCoys, Johnny and Edgar Winter etc.)
I too never appreciated Styx. Then I saw a DVD of the lads playing with a school orchestra...which was great. They even did a killer version of the Beatles' I am the 'Walrus'.
Here is a drum cam with Todd Sucherman doing his thing on the band's hit, 'Blue Collar Man'.
ua-cam.com/video/rNTlwjDxxk8/v-deo.html
Andy did you download the new Genevieve Artadi album Forever forever ?
A total masterpiece of fusion jazz brazilian prog pop
The first album by Pavlov's Dog, "Pampered Menial", would be my choice for a good North American prog album. (The second, even though Bill Bruford was sessioning on it, was more pop song/Beatlesy.) Kind of obscure but were, for some reason, well known in Australia.
Yes!!! They never get enough credit. Yes, I'm from Australia.
Agree I would include Pavlov’s Dog in a top 10 of US progressive bands.
Those who only know the band Journey as an AOR behemoth might be surprised to hear their eponymous debut album, without Steve Perry on vocals. As guitarist Neal Schon described it, on the instrumental tracks they were attempting to be a kind of "mini-Mahavishnu." Similar to the experience Andy describes with some of the records on his list, I heard this album and said, "Well, that's neat," and moved on. But it does have the fabulous Aynsley Dunbar on drums . . .
Dude, you are AWESOME!! MY absolute choice for #1 as well. He's my ULTRA-HERO. Here are some other bands who were not categorized as prog rock but, in fact, were very progressive, The Doors, The Velvet Underground and KC And The Sunshine Band.
The Cuneiform label has done a massive amount to promote innovative American progressive rock - Thinking Plague, 5uu's, Motor Totemist Guild, U Totem, Dr. Nerve, Present, Curlew, Siamese Stepbrothers, etc.
Unfortunately for Prog, none of these people sold as well as the Jazz artists, Cuneiform signed. I interviewed Mr. Feigenbaum a few years back and he was switching to jazz before he had to cease new product development. MoonJune is also a really great label for Prog and Fusion.
Present re of course, a Belgian group led by the late great composer Roger Trigaux who earlier played with the seminal chamber/ rio band Univers Zero. About as far from American rock as you can get!
@@wjstephens4654 I still think of Univers Zero as a rock band! (A Rock In Opposition band). I have a pretty broad definition of rock!)
@@garygomesvedicastrology Yes, in fact I used the term “rio” in my description and Daniel Denis does lay down some rock rhythms. Still, Rock in Opposition was a movement rather than a specific genre but perhaps it has evolved into a genre. These categories are vague and elastic and in my view it is debatable in terms of what is rock, what is progressive etc. Informed, intelligent people could have an interesting debate or discussion on this. The genealogy of rock is usually considered early blues + folk + electricity = rock. Univers Zero and rio bands (and many progressives) bring in classical, avant-garde, jazz etc. into the mix.
@@wjstephens4654 I don't think of RIO as a specific genre at all. I was a political and aesthetic alliance of several bands that were just oddities or didn't fit into any niche in their own countries. Only Zammla and Henry Cow's long improvisations show any common elements between bands. Univers Zero had a tangential connection with Magma because Daniel Denis played with Magma as a second drummer for a time.
But in general I dislike categories in music. When I was listening in the 1970s in college and a bit later, subcategories started to evolve, but I just looked at it as bands using different reference points as inspiration. That was how a lot of this started.
A lot of bands in the late 1970s through 1990's used RIO bands as inspiration, but there is no unified style of music that evolved from that movement-at least not in my opinion.
I dislike over classifying music and saying this is not rock or jazz or whatever. I understand why people want to do it, but to me it just balkanizes music into more and more camps. And, to me, it's just music.
I was just joking when I mentioned ROCK IN OPPOSITION. I really dislike the fact that music has become so segmented. It bothers me because music, in my opinion, should bring people together to experience new things. Just my opinion...
Thanks for all you do Andy.
Listened to a favorite from my teenage self - A wizard a true star - first time in years.
Just one victory is a song we should keep close, keep in our lives.
You rock Andy…… or should I say “You Prog Andy” ?
The word "whimsy" is a good word to describe the English aesthetics.
You would think by its sheer size America could appropriate British prog. Evidence that uniqueness by definition is an elusive element.
I think Triumph are often overlooked,especially their early albums.They drifted into bombastic metal later on and,perhaps ,ran out of ideas I dunno...great vid as usual Andy much love
The first bunch of Spock’s Beard records with Neal Morse are the only ones worth having.
Brief Nocturnes is better than anything Neal did....imo.
If you broaden "America" beyond North America, there's some great prog out of the southern hemisphere, including Seru Giran, La Máquina de Hacer Pájaros, and any number of early Luis Alberto Spinetta projects (and that's just limiting it to Argentina).
I am so glad that I discovered your channel. Your riff on jazz in America and prog rock is really interesting. What is your take on the declining popularity of jazz in America. As an American, it drives me to despair at times.
Some U.S. bands that also are prog: Dixie Dregs, Crack the Sky (from Baltimore) and currently - Umphrees Magee - an excellent outfit!
Interesting list, and Happy The Man unexpected - I did see them back in the day
Many thanks for this and every other video you put out...I really enjoy listening to you...I also find that we share similar tastes in the prog genre and similarly I find many American prog bands to be missing a crucial element in what I find enjoyable when listening to a British prog band for instance... You wisely call this British aesthetic and I have been waiting for your video on this ( I've left comments in the past asking for a video on what you describe as British aesthetic) ... Here I find your comment on a "second progressive rock era " of the early 90's very very interesting...and I'm here to ask if you could make a video about that... I'd imagine a lot of your followers feel the same. Thanks again!
Thank you for recognizing Happy The Man. Deserving of the list of best list! Do consider the delightful connection between Stanley Whitaker and Gentle Giant- as well as the interesting tid-bit regarding Peter Gabriel and HTM. Stanley is HTM founding member and guitarist. Exciting news on the very near horizon.
Thank you Sir.
Great video Andy.
I have to say, I just can't get in to Zappa - I've tried several times but the "whimsy" and inconsistency just irritates me and kills it for me.
You also navigated the whole US / America thing quite well.
Did you know that, at one point, the United States was nearly named Colombia? (after Christopher Columbus).
It would have made things a bit simpler, I would say (well, until the other Colombia came about hahaha).
When you mention Britishness in relation to Prog rock, then I guess that's the main reason I favour Italian bands any time, and mostly for their sense of melody, drama, and their stronger connections with hard rock.
Andy,
a few bands I recommend you check out as American Prog
1. Happy the Man
2. The Muffins
3. Captain Beefheart
4. The Residents
5. Absolute Zero (they had Pip Pyle as a drummer for a bit but were American)
6. Pere Ubu
7. There were at least a dozen groups in the United States that were influenced by RIO.
8. The United States of America
9. Fifty Foot Hose
10. Spirit
@Dr. Gary Gomes Vedic Astrology
Andy mentioned Happy the Man in the video, they were in his top ten.
@@PlaysWithChildren Sorry. Sometimes I miss things.
Hi, do you have any videos where you talk about Clannad? They're my favorite group and i never hear anyone talk about them.
When I was a kid in the 70s , Monty Python, Bless Me Father, Fawlty Towers , Two Ronnie's, The Saint, The Prisoner and dozens of other UK tv programs ran on tv through the whole decade on the CBC , the national broadcaster. The CBC was modelled on the BBC. The cultural aesthetic were very much tailored to the British aesthetic . Not surprising that Rush would take on those ideals.
My favourite by a country mile, Glass Harp, with Phil Keaggy's virtuoso guitar technique and musicianship.
For those who are curious - check out the master and the musician-- very proggy instrumental album.
Smashing show Andy. Have you checked out the insanely underatted Canadian band Max Webster?
Your Awesome Prof. Edward
I think that Progressive Rock is rooted in history, myth and legend - things that America has much less of than Britain and Europe. It would be interesting to hear American prog musicians using their own history as a basis for their music. Songs about the pioneering spirit, the building of the roads and railways, the gold rush, the various battles fought with the British, French and Spanish, and between themselves would provide a rich source of content. It would be much more interesting, at least to me, than listening to the likes of Ronnie James Dio scream about fairies.
Andy, I think it is time for you to discuss Christian Vander and Magma, from France. 55 years and still going strong.
Kartël, o whatever the right title is, is the recently released Magma album. Here's my favorite track out of it :
ua-cam.com/video/XdN51xv_WEE/v-deo.html
Very addictive ! And very easy to listen to.
I remember enjoying the energy of "Grand Funk Railroad" in my younger days. Especially the album "we are an american band"
Wherever Zappa and Rundgren are get involved, something good comes out of it ;-)
Amusingly, when GFR added a fourth member it was Craig Frost who had previously led an acid rock band called Frost. Not the first time a band name has been reused.
As an American, I agree with a lot of what you said. And I too stepped away from prog in late 70s for punk, new wave and art rock. I was not impressed by the neo and metal prog bands, they didn't do much for me. I love bands which are more "alternative" and dabble with facets of prog. I still stand by Talking Heads' Remain In Light as a top progressive album. Here are some other honorable mentions:
Midlake - whimsical, pastoral but not aping anyone. Check out the song "Feast of Carrion" as a taster.
The Decemberist - they have the humor. Check out the song "The Island" from The Crane Wife.
My Morning Jacket's "In it's Infancy (The Waterfall), Wilco's "The Art of Almost" is a freak out. My point, there are still American bands pushing boundaries, which aren't in the prog bubble, making great music. Unfortunately, they don't get the exposure they deserve. PS - I love the new Rain release, and I still have the first one on heavy rotation in my car...
"Art of Almost," such an amazing track! A particularly underrated prog-experimental-art rock band was The Standard from Washington state (early 2000's).
The Mars Volta have a huge hardcore/post-hardcore hectic energetic vibe to them, so I guess the more traditional prog listeners (Yes, Genesis, Gentle Giant) will have some more difficulty listening to them. I hear King Krimson and Mahavishnu jazz influences as well, but don't forget these guys came from At the Drive-In.
I knew someone who played for The Mars Volta at one point, their sound is highly influenced by technical post-hardcore like NoMeansNo & the more avant-garde side of prog like Magma & Henry Cow. They fused those 2 worlds together along w/ some Latin and jazz fusion & created pure insanity. Probably my favorite modern prog group due to “Frances the Mute” alone.
I wish the production was better. it sounds harsh and pro-tooled to me
Great Rush story, Andy!
I think you've put your finger on the Canadian Prog perspective: self-deprecating humour. (If you look at the number of comedians and comic writers that have come out of The Great White North, you'll see we punch way above our weight.) This comes, I think, from a type of 'younger brother syndrome', a need to "not be seen as American". We are secretly in awe of the US but feel the need to compensate through satire.
Add in a heightened relationship with the land, nature and (yes) the weather and you're even closer. Historically, besides our English overlords, the Scots, Irish and French have brought their own anti-establishment flavours. More and more, we are tapping into a very funny Indigenous culture and, moving forward, will feel the influence of all the recent and new cultures that are finding a home here.
A great CanAm list of bands and Todd just about in the right slot, what a Genius ! Hope the Canadians are kind to you from now on.
Thank you sir. Nicely stated.
Los Jaivas should definitely be on the list, they are the biggest south american prog band ever! Harmonium should also be on the list they are probably the most important canadian prog band along with Rush. Bubu is another great band from Argentina, they only released one album in 1978 called anabelas but that's an amazing album! I don't think Styx belongs on the list, I think they are more AOR than prog.
Arco Iris, Pescado Rabioso.... lots of great stuff!
Another fun discussion, Andy, I vote for Mike Keneally - whimsy-a-plenty
because FZ had a progrockschool......1min delay
ua-cam.com/video/8ndhNYBWtxA/v-deo.html
Among the not mentioned :
1- David Sancious and Tone
2- The Muffins
3- Master Cylinder
4- Yezda Urfa
5- Echolyn
6- A Triggering Myth
7- The Underground Railroad
8- Thinking Plague
9- 5 UU's
10- Nathan Mahl
"The Seven Rays" is my absolute favorite Todd Rundgren song. Still struggling with the time changes in the bridge.
Love it too although I would go for Another Life as favorite tune from Another Live.
I'm mainly a Todd fan but never really got the prog Utopia era, just seems like noodling...I much prefer the pop rock Utopia when they were like an American version of Queen
Happy the Man is not just an instrumental band. There is some amount of singing on their albums. Also worth mentioning is that they were produced by famous English producer/engineer Ken Scott (Supertramp, Mahavishnu Orchestra…) which gives them an ‘English’ sound.
Hello!
Please list of 10 Greatest American PROG Artists.
Thanks.
ANYONE is the greatest prog band to ever emerge from the americas. listen to the album called 'In Humanity' and when you do, remember that the entire album was performed by one man. the band was originally formed by Taylor Hawkins and Jon Davison along with the only remaining member, the musical genius Riz Story. total mind blow
How would you rate someone like Captain Beefheart? As Don had no instrumental abilities (other than a bit of harmonica) or knowledge of musical theory, but he did have a singular musical vision and surrounded himself with top notch musicians in the Magic Band who could bring them to fruition.
Great video. When at the end you were giving credit to one individual…I knew exactly who you were going to name. But could there be any other answer but Frank!
Watching videos like this, or reading on the topic, I often wonder why there is no love at all for the group Pavlov's Dog? Are they not prog enough, were they too obscure, career too short? I mean, they had flute, violin, mellotron, majestic melodies, crazy vocals, even Bill Bruford bashing drums on their second album. Pampered Menial is a perfect (or near perfect, if you want) album, the other ones aren't half bad either. The Prog Archives site regards them as "one of the most influential progressive bands from USA". So, what's the deal? Btw, this is not criticism, just me wondering. I enjoy very much Andy's rants. Peace out.
30:08
I’m an American who absolutely loves Faulty Towers (although, to be fair, I’m from Buffalo, NY, which is a stone’s throw away from Canada).
some of the things he ascribes to Canada exist in the US - albeit more regionally. The northeast in particular understands that sense of humour a bit better than many other regions (and sarcasm) - not necessarily due to a longer Western history but but perhaps due to large waves of Irish immigration. Monty Python and FT were well known in New England when I was a kid.
"One Size Fits All" is, to my mind, the absolute best Zappa album [and the greatest American prog album, hands down]. The reason it eclipses his other albums is very simple. "One Size Fits All" is the only Zappa album that completely avoids retro-cringy-ness. If we're being honest, a lot of the Zappa catalog has not aged well. The music might be there, but the lyrics come off like an incel's podcast. Most of his albums have flashes of pure brilliance ["Moving to Montana"] sandwiched between songs that were hilarious back in the day but now sound sophomoric, mean-spirited and/or just plain creepy ["Dynamo Hum"]. "One Size" is like his one "adult" album that you could listen to with your mom in the room [which I did quite often as a teen]. I mean, "Inca Roads," with its zig-zag time signatures, compressed melodicism, beautifully meandering wah-wah guitar solo, and lunatic lyrics, is the quintessential Zappa track. "San Bernardino" is a genre-busting romp, "Andy" is expansive and lush. And "Pojama People" offers classic Zappa cynicism and humor without all the sixth-grade-notebook imagery.
I love Chicago!
Only know I and II. Both are great.
@@h.m.7218 yes they are!
I think the English aesthetic as channeled via prog does come through a bit more in Canadian bands than American due to Canada’s Commonwealth cultural connections. One Canadian band deserving of mention is Klaatu.
Another interesting one was FM, who were also the only band I can think of to make a direct-to-disc album.
@@patbarr1351 Tower of Power also did a direct-to-disc. There were others, though accomplished musicians are the best bet to do them.
There's so much I could say in reaction to this video. I'll try to keep it short.
I grew up in a "music desert" in the American Midwest. In the 70s I didn't know what Prog Rock was. I called bands like Genesis and Yes Art Rock. I didn't know genres. It just sounded like art to me.
All I knew of Zappa was some of the humorous songs. Styx, to me, along with many other US bands, sounded over-produced, formulaic.
In hind sight, I wish I would of taken a chance on Todd Rundgren at the record stores. I did like Kansas' Masque album, and I would add Triumph to your list. And maybe Hendrix, too. You really have to stretch the definition of Prog to find it in the US.
You credit British Prog with the "English Aesthetic" and your probably right about its importance. But I also think there is an educational difference. The British Prog musicians seem to have experienced a more formal training. It shows in the composition and musical skill. In America, there just wasn't much cutting edge music. It was commercial and I'm not proud of this.
America's just not the place to look for good prog. The cutting -edge American bands were ones like The Stooges, The Velvet Underground, and Television, who were far more avant-garde, and far less commercial, than the prog bands. They also tended not to tour with laser light shows and smoke machines.
@@Emlizardo Thank you for the reply. I started following Andy to learn what I missed the first time through. I liked Iggy and, more recently have been listening to the Velvets. But somehow Television eluded my radar. I'll definitely be giving them a listen. Thanks again!
Andy, you really need to check out a band from Philadelphia called echolyn. You'll love them.
Echolyn is epic prog... and out of eastern Pennsylvania
Wunderbar Video Andy !
They was really nothing like Freak Out! Back then…….
But what about The Grand Wazoo?
……. :)
One huge omission for me is another Canadian band (and one i prefer over Rush) is Saga.
yes Saga are great.
For myself I would put Glass Hammer in my top3
Re the British aesthetic and Canada - watch Kids in the Hall - close cousins to Pythons in my book.
The magical mix is called….authenticity.
Andy - I'm from the northeast of America - and Monty Python and Prog were always popular in this part of America. To understand why, I suggest you read Albion's Seed by David Hackett.
I also consider 1983… (A Merman I Should Turn to Be) by the Jimi Hendrix Experience to be an even earlier example of a fantastic psychedelic prog composition from 1968.
What do you think of The Flaming Lips, who to my ear sound often so much like Yes, and their record "The Soft Bulletin." Also, why isn't Boston prog? Songs too short? Not sufficently mystical or thematic?
Please check out Touch. They were a West coast band who made just one record in 1969-70. Their fantastic songs were matched only by their technical brilliance.
No love for Crack the Sky (unless I skimmed past it!) Nuclear Apathy is such a choice track
Styx - Man of Miracles is a very good prog album and it also has a very cool album cover
Styx veered more toward pop when Tommy Shaw replaced J.C. Curulewski, as writing hooks is really Tommy's greatest strength.
Sleepy time Gorilla museum is my favourite prog band of the past 20 years
They are pretty mind blowing...Mr Bungle on steroids
@@AndyEdwardsDrummerabsolutely! They do a lot of hocketing (which I think came from Gentle Giant)
I've not heard many of the bands on your list so it was a very interesting listen. However, as a prog rock listener since the late 60's I would have included Santana / Journey as I was hooked from Abraxas onwards.
Richard
What happened to Chicago is that they lost Terry Kath.
I heard "25 or 6 to 4" the other day and once again wondered why he isn't included in the usual lists of greatest guitarists.
Kit Watkins was a brilliant minimoog player.
Kit Watkins is the most underrated moog player with Alan Gowen and David Sancious.
@Arnaud B. Gowen, Sancious + Stu Goldberg
@@naderzekrya5238 Absolutely!
Pardon. I'm listening to the Roundabout album for the first time since 1975, on cheap ($19 plus change) headphones for the third time today. It bloody bangs, as the kids say. Heres a little Bruford...ua-cam.com/video/AbCpI--0phk/v-deo.html - yup.
I've never found a way into Zappa, Rush are easily number 1 for me followed by Kansas and a huge gulf before I reach Dream Theater and the likes of Spock's Beard. Styx only had 1 or 2 proggy albums before descending into sugary pop.
There was no time left to go through the list once again and tell which ones you don't care so much about as the others, but I believe that it would've been: Dream Theater, Tool, Styx, Mars Volta, (perhaps Spock's Beard)
Glad to see Todd's stock is rising in your eyes (hah!)
As a guy from the US whose experience with the UK is limited to a couple of Heathrow layovers, I realized about 15 years ago that all of my favorite bands were not just English, but the most English of the English...not just prog bands but also bands like the Kinks. So when I started hearing you talk about the "English Aesthetic," I got what you were driving at right away. As far as I know, Kansas came about as close as any US band to creating prog like the English did, but it just lacks that fundamental ingredient. The American aesthetic, on the other hand, consists largely of a drive to make money, and I think it was American bands more than anyone else who turned progressive rock from an ethos to a genre, designed to be consumed by the masses, with its composition overseen by focus groups. Starcastle studied Yes and gave us a poppier version of that band. (We have to share some blame with the Germans, who gave us Triumvirat, who did the same thing to ELP.)
I think Triumvirat were very different from ELP. They used horns & background vocals. Seems to me that Keith in particular was very blues-R & B influenced, where Triumvirat leaned towards jazz. Both mixed classical and rock elements of course.
@@patbarr1351 My mention of Triumvirate was a bit tongue-in-cheek, but Jürgen Fritz certainly patterned his keyboard sounds after Emerson and borrowed numerous keyboard and bass licks from the band. I don't know that he was any more jazz-influenced than Emerson, but I agree that their compositions were where the two band differed (and the singers--I preferred Helmut Köllen's beautiful, Cat Stevens-ish voice to Lake's). There was less going on harmonically in Triumvirate's music and their melodies, I think, tended to be catchier. I don't mean to denigrate Triumvirat. They were fine musicians and I like their best work, especially "Spartacus." To paraphrase Stravinsky, "If you're going to steal, steal from the best."
@@Hydrocorax Thanks for taking a moment to reply. I didn't mean to lump you into the category with my parents, who thought the Stones sounded just like the Beatles!
@@patbarr1351 😀
#2 come on! America made Rush to give my opinion. Think I’m going bald how old is that😂
I'll agree with putting Styx on a list of US prog bands. I understand that many people wouldn't put them in the top 10, but I think it's reasonable to have them at least in the top 20. They started out reasonably prog, then went more-and-more AOR, and then came out _"Kilroy Was Here",_ which was pretty awful IMO. But then Dennis DeYoung is gone, and in Styx's later years they realize there's no way they could get another top-10 hit. So their more recent albums have back to more progressive music.
Another group that people might want to consider is CAST . There are at least 8-10 groups named Cast, but this is: _"Mexican symphonic progressive rock band founded in Mexicali, Mexico in 1978. Keyboard player Luis Alfonso Vidales is founder and engine as well as with long time member Jose Antonio Bringas on drums the musical constant from the first official release 1994 until now."_ I'm not saying they deserve to be in the top 10, but I do think some people would find them very enjoyable. They've released over 20 albums; some are sung in English, some are sung in Spanish.
Cast has lots of albums, and I haven’t heard one yet I don’t like.
consider the source are hard to define,good band
The U.S. band that I believe has probably the most English Aesthetic that made two albums in the 70s is Fireballet. Ethos made a couple of almost pre-new age type prog albums. And what about Max Webster ? maybe not full on prog but they dive in a lot.
There are some very cool Argentinian prog bands - Arco Iris, Pescado Rabioso and Almendra come to mind immediately. All that ended when the junta took over in 1974 - 75?
First result of my chatgpt prompt
Kansas, Styx, Protokaw Jasper Wrath, Cathedral, Happy The Man, Mother Mallard's Portable Masterpiece Company, Captain Beyond, Early Journey, Starcastle, Carmen (mixed with Brits), Aviary, Dixie Dregs, Pavlov's Dog, Yezda Urfa, Crack The Sky, Zappa
If Zappa why not Adrian Belew (The Bears?)
Why not up front Steely Dan?
forgot all about Crack the Sky
@@stevejensen5112 AI brings everything to light. If you ask the most progressive rock band by American standards (success, success, success), there is only one answer:
The one with the greatest success in terms of sales and audience numbers is Grand Funk Railroad
This is how GREATEST is spelled in America
What about The Mills Brothers?
I would include Talking Heads on the list. Maybe an honorable mention for Wall of Voodoo's 1st couple of albums and same for Devo's early work. Those groups all colored outside the lines of the music of their day. (I'm tempted to include The Residents, who were more than one step beyond as their playground was the avant garde.)
Not prog
@@S728-u9x Would you like to explain that opinion. Because those are among the most progressive of 20th century musicians!
@@patbarr1351 i agree that they are definitely progressive in the standard sense of the word and also fantastic bands, but as with most genres and most words in general, the term "prog/progressive rock" has absorbed a specific meaning with specific characteristics ! It is my understanding that when we say prog we arent simply talking about bands and artists that were progressive, we are talking about bands that follow a specific tradition of music, nd the artists you mentioned come from different cultural contexts from the one commonly associated with prog, in my opinion. And i do acknowledge that bands like devo and the talking heads had close ties to that context and have definitely taken notes of what the prog rock artists were doing, but i think that they were part of something bigger and new. Sorry for the smug tone of my initial response !!
@@S728-u9x Seems like lately "prog" has come to equal what used to be called "techno-rock" in 'zines like Melody Maker. IOW synthesizers and guitars played at high velocity. There were classic '70's artists that were worlds away from that style, including Kate Bush, Peter Gabriel & Hawkwind. It's a big tent. (And I'm up for a little "smug" now & then!)
In regards to "Prog rock"... didn't the music precede the label? Wasn't the label created by the British rock press? Wasn't it (especially at the start) an offshoot from the Beatles?
All that being said, I pretty much agree with you-but again "prog rock" was label created to be put on something which already existed and was British (not just English)- so no wonder there were so many fewer American "prog" bands and fewer still which were both good AND original. Also, I think many American bands wandered in and out of "prog-ness" and weren't concerned about keeping to the classically British prog sensibility. Talking Heads (especially "Remain In Light") gets mentioned, but of course there's the "unAmerican" influence of both David Byrne and Brian Eno.Another band which could be considered prog and was very American are the Dixie Dregs. They started in the mid 70s and actually had one big radio hit in the early 80s ("Bloodsucking Leeches") There was certainly humor in what they did, but being a strictly instrumental band, I think it usually went over the audience's heads. A perfect example of an American band wandering (or plowing?) into prog and then away again is Killdozer's "Uncompromising War On Art Under The Dictatorship Of The Proletariat". (and of course there's humor there-but not necessarily humour). Listen to the guitar in that album (from 1994) and tell me if it doesn't sound like King Crimson at their noisiest-and it isn't simply copying. Other punk (from Canada!) that wanders in and out of prog is No Means No.
OK it can be fun to create labels and discuss/argue over them-but remember, labels are primarily A MARKETING TOOL.
I like Mars Volta due to a skint stint in a small village in Asia, where I only had a bunch of Mars Volta mp3s. OK, well, takes a while, but you can learn to really like some of it.. Not all.. The local ghosts liked it.. 😮 In the 70s in Canada there was a short period when Styx was on every stereo, blasting out across the neighborhoods.. Happy the Man is brilliant..I like it better then the Bruford stuff, except Fainting in Coils and Back to the Beginning..
Angel-S/T-1975 /Superb POMP Aesthetic of the Gendre!
I think the English aesthetic is somewhere deep in the American marrow, and that this is why there's been not just fandom, but something you could rightly call Love for bands like the Beatles (and "all the rest" that came after them) - because it's something that resonates. Maybe it's a relic of simpler times, before the great cities fully took over? Somewhere in the primeval America before civilization took over is this funny English something that sometimes pops its head up. (It maybe takes something like a Monty Python's Flying Circus to bring it out).
So being English is kind of like being a bit of a genetic throwback, is what I suppose I'm saying.
Like your take dude.A progger if ever i heard/read one.
I would add that Rush were two guys descended from European immigrants and a real Anglophile drummer he lived here for a while. And they wrote about hobbits in the early days. Blew my mind seeing them at 14!
Frank and Todd. We Yanks are not too proggy.
Im not american and Utopia is my favorite progressive band at the moment, I dont care if its american or british....Oops,Wrong Planet is the best prog album ever made (for me)
What a weird comment about Oops. I was also surprised when AE classified it, along with Adventures, as a prog album. Both are rather ecclectic pop rock albums to my ears. For me, only the first 3 Utopia are prog : TR's Utopia, Another Live and Ra. But you can't help but notice the last one is already shifting towards less complex pop rock songs.
what about "mister bungle"?