Apple M3 vs Snapdragon X Elite - Performance!
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- Опубліковано 9 чер 2024
- Now that Apple's laptops with the M3 family of processors has hit the shelves, it means we have some performance numbers. In this video I compare the M3's performance to that of the Snapdragon X Elite.
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Clarification: The 23W/80W TDP figures are in regards to the reference devices that the benchmarks were being run on - and NOT related to the actual Snapdragon X Elite SoC.
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Protect him from fans like you? 🤣
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So I have spoken to Qualcomm for some clarification about the 23W/80W numbers. To be clear the TDP figures are in regards to the reference devices that are running benchmarks - and NOT related to the actual Snapdragon X Elite SoC.
Would have been nice to see the M1-M3 Max power usage in the benchmarks as well to compare
I’m going to guess much less than 25 and 80W! 😂
Between 21w to 36w depending on the chip
120 W
@@wcg66 the M3 Max is around 36Watts.
@@wcg66 much less than 25w? in what world?
The main question is not +/-5% the performance, but compatibility with all current software that is out there on x86 processors.
Yea, now MSFT have some work to do to make sure there's a good reason for ARM windows processors. Really hope they don't botch it like the last couple attempts
Microsoft will have no choice but to create the same kind of emulator Apple did with their Rosetta 2. Lucky for Microsoft that Apple showed them a way to do it.
@@montex66 Microsoft already did.
Amazing considering X Elite performance core design was probably area and power optimized for multi-threaded datacenter workloads. Plenty of improvements will be made for client workloads in the future iterations.
True but where the M3 max decimates the Elite I believe is the GPU dept. Let’s not forget many Qualcomm employees eventually integrated from apple chip designers.
Also by the time these Qualcomm chips see laptops the next M4 should be rolling right out a few months after.
@@GlobalWave1 Qualcomm's GPU core is really powerful on Snapdragon 8...
@@fod1202 Yes but the charts they showed for the gpu it wasn't that impressive. And it's not anywhere near the M3 Max. In fact when it starts showing up in mobile devices next summer it'll only be a few months before apple comes out with the M4.
@@GlobalWave1 You are comparing with M3 Max?!
@@fod1202 Yes because that’s their premium chip. Pretty sure they’ve shown their their GPU to a baseline M2 and it was beaten. The M3 max is much more powerful from what we’ve seen in the charts to their APU.
Considering that Apple bought up all the 3nm production of TSMC, blocking Qualcomm making a reliable 3nm chip. It is amazing how great the Qualcomm chip did. Qualcomm was forced to go 4nm. 33% larger than the Apple chip and still had great numbers. What a great design by Qualcomm.
I see fan boy! Apple bought out TSMC’s 3nm production because they have the need for them aka they can sell the product, Qualcomm has no customer for their ARM chips because windows is not on ARM yet and NO windows manufacturers would buy it! Grow up, it’s called market economy, you buy the inventory based on what you can sell.
Oh snapdragon jams 12 performance cores on a 80watt 4nm chip can barely beat M2 Pro/Max’s 8 performances cores 4 efficiency cores on same 4nm process 20watt chip is not remarkable at all.
wow and this is just first gen well done qualcome
apple will struglle with cpu again in few years like it happend before, it's just a matter of when
@@UT48D tim cook
@Tay-pi5di You think Qualcomm didn't want to go 3nm for their phone chips and have the fastest chips by a wide margin. Apple paid a lot of extra money to keep Qualcomm out. It is not a secret. Qualcomm's design is superior. It should be. They took all Apple's top engineers, who did the original designs when they bought Nuvia.
Really impressive numbers. Yes this could really be a thing. One ARM computer for office stuff and one for gaming.
That's 100% right
And one in your pocket. And one powering the servers all these devices connect to. It's blown me away how fast the ARM transition is going.
The 23W and 80W of both Snapdragon X Elite systems, is the Thermal Design Power of each device. (The amount of cooling available for the entire device). It is not the power draw of the CPU or even the SOC. Qualcomm have something special with the Snapdragon X Elite and is off to a promising start. At 4nm it manages to beat AMD at 4nm and Apple at 4nm, in performance and efficiency.
if that is true, 23W total system draw at peak load is astounding
Amd is very good at x86 workload efficiency I'd say but must not idle efficiency
Good to know, thx for the clarification - I thought it was the chip TDP only which seemed high.
That would be true of the M3 systems as well.
I don’t know where you got that info. From what I can find, those are the TDP numbers for those systems, which by no means indicates total system power, nor even maximum CPU power. It is however a good guide to maximum sustained power usage. You can bet that both of these systems exceed 23W CPU power under sustained heavy loads such as Cinebench 2024 Multicore tests. The difference will be in how much they exceed it for how long before thermal throttling. The 80W system might not experience any thermal throttling, while the 23W certainly will. Real peak power usage is probably in the range of 35W-55W for the chip.
This is so exciting! I'm looking forward to upgrading to an arm desktop pc in the second half of this decade.
The 23W X Elite is cool… but why are we comparing the 80W X elite to a 25W Apple product? Don’t we still care about battery life, fans, and heat? The ARM laptop / desktop solutions are impressive when they are also power efficient. An 80W X Elite is no longer that…
You said it all, but I don't think it's a bad idea knowing that when you are plugged in you will get more performance, I think that's why the option is there
@@2COLD118Yeah it’s just wild because at that power usage it’s going up against the Ultra level SOCs 💀
I noticed that too, one chip draws 3.2x less power.
@@chidorirasenganz oh, I agree. It would be awesome in a small form factor desktop. But I don’t want to go back to having an 80 W laptop chip.
@@chidorirasenganz lol, I can't help but wonder why a laptop processor will be drawing that much power for lesser performance
Will be interesting to see when the actual consumer devices come out the comparison between thermals and battery life as well as real world use cases. This may ultimately come down to optimization more than anything else
As a Windows power user, I am overly excited for the future Windows on ARM laptops. That will be the perfect work-vacation laptop I want to carry around and get things done.
AI is coming.
Don't say that, I've just bought a new laptop. I'm joking, it will take a while for all the windows apps that I'm using to be rewritten for ARM. Visual Studio is still on 32 bits ffs.
I'm all in the hype train but we gotta wait for programs to be rewritten to support ARM.
I want one to run Linux on.
@@alexandruilea915huh visual studio is on arm since 1 year
Love your videos. Thanks a lot.
It’s much needed competition in the field as Apple was just getting further and further ahead. Will be interesting to see how M3 Ultra will perform once it’s released.
Bravo Qualcomm! A new era begins.
A new era will begin next year, meanwhile Apple users have been living this life for the past 3 years.
@@5GRobo So what?
@@5GRoboso what
@@AbiPrescott-yt9xf You're talking as if Apple are the ones who produced those engineers. Sure, they worked for Apple and helped create the Apple silicon (which by the way is just their smartphone chips with more cores) but that doesn't mean their expertise were built in Apple and they do not owe it to them. Most of those engineers are renowned industry experts that have been in the game for decades and have worked for several other companies and built experience there so they do not owe their expertise to Apple. Stop talking as if Apple made them. Qualcomm are just taking in more experienced hands to help build their own chips and that's all.
@@5GRobo
Until there is a computer manufacturer that builds a machine from the ground up with its own OS Apple is still a decade ahead of everybody else.
It would be great to also do a video about all the "background OS processes" that are running on MacOS vs. Windows 11, and the issues these cause, and also talk about the "modern standby" power architecture built into Windows PCs and how this causes issues with applications that require very low latency (such as live audio/video apps). It's not just about the raw CPU chip speed, I think it's also important to address the operating system baggage that comes along with it, and the laptop power consumption & cooling factors as well. Thanks for your video!
Thank you so much Gary!!
Please make a video stating how would Arm effect Windows day to day uses and x86 apps.
What I really want to know is how much Linux support the new chip will have, I know Linux supports ARM, but I assume there will be further optimisation work to get the best battery / performance of these new chips.
same as surface pro x, almost zero support. but at least we still have WSL
@@broccoloodle That's disappointing. Think I might switch to a Mac for a couple of years, even though I hate the OS.
I'm not sure which youtuber said they, but we're not likely to see generally available hardware until end of next year.
You and three other people.
@@vnitto Couldn't really care about the three other people, also couldn't care less about your opinion either.
Great work, Qualcomm. I'm not sure when actual products with hit the shelves, if said products will do well on thermals/power, when software in Windows on ARM will get better, or if PC users will care about anything other than game compatibility (😒)... but yeah, congrats. They're catching up, and hopefully this will be good for everyone.
How to put 80 watts SOC on thin laptop like macbook pro 16? On the other hand, M3 max operate at 30 watts. It’s multiple generations behind. 😂
The wattage numbers on the X-Elite aren't representative of what the CPU draws, but the thermal design envelope of device running the chip as a whole. So they cannot be directly compared to the M series chips and other ARM counterparts. That's what I was told by a Snapdragon Employee, when I commented on how inefficient the 80W TDP seemed. Based on their explanation, I'm guessing we'll see mored TDP variants when laptops will start shipping with the chip.
Just for clarification, the 23W/80W TDP figures are in regards to the reference devices that the benchmarks were being run on - and NOT related to the actual Snapdragon X Elite SoC.
Interested in using the Qualcomm for Linux. Are there compatibility layers on that OS? I know it is much easier to recompile, but would be great to run x86-64 on there too...
Great info as usual Gary, can´t wait for the new windows laptops coming out.
As an iPhone geek, I´ve gone over to the Pixel 7 Pro and I´m happy.
My M1 Pro MBP still feels fresh though, but now the field is opening at long last 😁
Thank you for the video.
Could you compare them with Intel and AMD?
What about graphics capabilities? Will the SnapdDragon run Unreal 5 / Lumen?
This is why I keep listening to Gary Explains, he just makes it so simple. Yeah, definitely would be interested in the Elite but I wonder how virtualbox would run under ARM version of Windows?
Hyper-v works perfectly running Arm based virtual machines.
@@GaryExplains , thanks!
One of the biggest hurdle for ARM based PCs they are heavily entrenched in x86 architecture regarding software so unless they have a solution like Apple’s like transition and universal binary files the PC will struggle to make the switch it’s been trying for years
That was interesting benchmark and raw analysis! I've run Windows 11 arm64 virtualised on M2 MacBook Air (24GB RAM) very well, for some light workloads and some Windows games. No issues so far. But what will be interesting is if future Qualcomm powered Windows laptops will show a large increase in battery life and/or less heat. Not sure if those will be marketed as premium devices initially, but eventually most PC vendors should/would adopt arm64 in some product lines like Lenovo T13 if I am not wrong. Hope seeing more of those analysis here, thanks!
Just a question, are we sure Qualcomm won't release a Snapdragon X Elite (Pro) or (Max) version of its own? Apple also released just the M1 at the start but I think due to a lot of different budgets you can buy a laptop I assume they will also release something of their own pro version chips for the flagship laptops
We can't be sure of course... but I would expect Qualcomm now needs Microsoft and other software-vendors to go the next step and revive Windows on Arm.
No doubt Apples big benefit rolling out the M-chips was full control over the OS and some software + big influence on MacOS software-vendors
It is safe to say that this time next year Qualcomm will release more Oryon based processors, for laptops and for smartphones.
A 24 core variant of this would be fantastic. Apple already does this with their Ultra chips(doubling everything).
What are the gpu benchmarks of the snapdragon? That’s pretty important, not just cpu..
also something to note, when running on linux the 80w X Elite gets a 3.2k ST and 17k MT score, which is an important thing since most developers run linux and ARM is way better supported on linux than windows atm
Where did you get these numbers from?
You Linux guys will never give, everything is better than windows....
@@carlmiller369It's a real performance improvement. It means that the chip can be slightly faster if Windows gets more optimized.
Missed M1 Ultra and M2 Ultra or was you thinking laptop only? But then why the X Elite 80w?
Considering it will be their 1st commercial Arm processor it's very good.
The real performance leap only comes on the 1st release. Similar to the Apple chip.
@@5GRobo You have to remember that the guys at nuvia originally designed these chips for servers and high performance computing and qualcomm took that and put it in a laptop SoC.
@@fidelisitor8953 so what?
@@5GRobo So it means Qualcomm still has plenty of room for improvement unlike Apple who went in too hard with their first gen and forgot about subsequent gens.
@@fidelisitor8953 Maybe you're right and that could be the case, but I'd imagine the final product is already somewhat optimized for the target consumers.
Wow these numbers are really exiting, especially the 23w version. Now we got windows chips on pair with the best apple chips. This is really something to wait to buy a laptop for. Game changer in power consumption!
Wonder how it will pair with graphics as 3D software and gaming.
Will there be graphics add-ons for higher demanding tasks or is the integrated one good enough?
Would it be possible to add hardware x86 to arm translation into these chips, instead of relying on software?
I really do hope that M$ can do the Arm CPUs justice with this new range. Up to now it's not been great.
Okay I am here. Been waiting.
looking good! where can i buy it today?
🤣
Things are about to get interesting. I can't wait for the future.
Amazing that Qualcomm can catch up and even exceed Apple. However, as long as Windows software support/x86 translation for ARM sucks it won’t be worth getting any Windows on ARM device for at least an another year or two. What Apple did with Rosetta 2 to make the transition from Intel to ARM was seamless. Hopefully Microsoft can figure out something similar.
I have questions about the reference machine for the snapdragon, was it a stripped out OS, increasing the benchmarks
2900 single core windows
3200 single core Linux
I need speed for video editing. When will I be able to see a laptop with this processor and Davinci Resolve compiled native to see real world speed comparisons with M2 or M3?
Around June 2024 😬
Do the numbers change on Linux?
It looks like we will have a very competitive and innovation-rich 2024 in the PC industry, finally!
Apple users have been living this life for the past 3 years.
Oh, very interesting results… I would also be interested in seeing price versus performance and power consumption versus performance
What's the wattage consumption for M3 series? That really decides which one is more efficient. After all, performance per watt is what differentiated M series from Intel.
20 watts
120W
New Gary Explains 🙌
Hopefully Qualcomm also makes progress on proper Linux support in boot & drivers. There are lots of aarch64 supporting Linux distros that for anything other than Steam wouldn't even need an x86 emulator, since their repos are fully native. I could well imagine the Snapdragon X Elite even at 23 Watts and Fedora aarch64 for my usual work laptop setup would be amazing. Because of RPI I assume, even the proprietary development tools like Intellij or VS Code have aarch64 Linux downloads already too.
I am also more interested on Linux instead of Windows. Apple Silicon was and is a breakthrough.
That's great, but we need to know how fast will x86 translation be ?
Is it gonna be as efficient as rosetta ?
How long until most apps are on arm natively ?
How long until games are on arm natively ?
Will building node.js work from day 1 ? how about android studio, intelliJ, VSCode, python, java, etc...
Building with node.js and Electron etc works today, on existing Windows on Arm devices. As does VSCode, Visual Studio, Python, and Java. I will be doing a video on the speed of the x86 translation soon.
But in Linux it's on par with m3 Max in single threaded
X elite is nice but how much optimized windows and its apps will be for ARM processors.
Damn, if the M3 Max is this good, then imagine how insane the M3 Ultra is gonna be 🤯
The key to success will be in the execution, apple executed a perfect switch from x86 to arm
Unless you needed passable GPU power.
Great comparison so thanks. For laptops at least the power consumption is key though so the 80W figures are less relevant unless comparing with the iMac. Qualcomm have done a good job in moving the ARM platform forward. Cheers
How much will X Elite cost?
Is it only comming to the high end Windows laptop or is a more budget friendly chip?
Unfortunately we don't know. Personally I fear it may only be the high end, which would be a mistake, but probably inevitable.
@@GaryExplains Yes i fear that to:/
Is Geekbench for WoA running natively or through the translation layer?
Native.
I can't wait to see an actual windows laptop with X elite. The only concerns I have are the battery life and how much they would charge for the laptops with Xelite in it.
I hope Microsoft also continue to improve its Windows ARM.......Windows 12 could also be the "windows 11 arm".
is windows arm version is more optimized tham x86 version?
The only thing hindering Arm on windows to be competitive to Apple on arm is Microsoft itself...
I would love to buy arm PC at any time rather than to buy a apple product because of my WORKFLOW...but NO Microsoft is having another self- inflicting plans there😢
Just wait until 2024
Are there any issues with windows running on Arm? I haven’t seen much about it.
You might like my Surface Pro X review.
Gary, I think the Snapdragon X Elite (80W) test were ran on Linux instead of Windows for ARM AFAIR
No, the 80W numbers I give are on Windows. The Linux numbers are much higher, but I didn't use them.
So what computer can I go buy today that has the 80w 12 core SnapDragon? Also, how is windows doing with running software created for x86 on ARM chips these days? Apple has nailed that aspect and is a couple of years into the transition with nearly flawless backwards support. I am glad to see competition as ARM/RISC really does seem like the future to me, but none of this seems like a reason to get overly excited. It still seems like a lot has to fall into place before this chip can even be considered a true competitor… to the older M2 that is.
What wattages are the Apple Mn SoCs?
SO what is the wattage of the M3 max?
Almost no performance increase for 80W over 23 W??
Those are 12 efficiency cores.
Impressive results
When can you buy a computer white the snapdragon x elite?
So not it all depends what the price range would be especially for the 80W version. This could be a monster is the price range is around M3 Pro range.
It's interesting how little performance they gain from bumping from 23W - 80W. I'd hope most of that extra wattage is used by the GPU, becasue if it's mainly the CPU then the 80W part is pretty bad in comparison.
The wattage numbers on the X-Elite aren't representative of what the CPU draws, but the thermal design envelope of the device running the chip as a whole. So they cannot be directly compared to the M series chips and other ARM counterparts. That's what I was told by a Snapdragon Employee, when I commented on how inefficient the 80W TDP seemed. Based on their explanation, I'm guessing we'll see mored TDP variants when laptops will start shipping with the chip.
@@xperiafan5370 That explanation from the Snapdragon employee sounds odd to me. I'm not aware of anyone specifiying the TDP of a component including random external peripherals? The TDP is traditionally a number for the package.
@@Gaspode_ Well, they said it's not reflective of the power draw of the device, but the thermal design envelope. It's not the clearest of explanations, but from my interpretation, it means the 80W TDP devices probably have a more powerful cooling system, which could handle the heat of an 80W chip, resulting in a significantly cooler chip, which is why the scores are higher on the other variant. I'm guessing the 23W TDP devices were fanless, meanwhile the 80W TDP devices had a cooling system?
Well, they said comparing the efficiency of their chips based on the TDP numbers provided by them, with those of other chips' TDP numbers, to calculate the efficiency of their chips will not provide accurate numbers. So the best way to know how efficienct their chips are, will be to test them, using specific tools, once the X-Elite powered devices will go on sale.
Just for clarification, the 23W/80W TDP figures are in regards to the reference devices that the benchmarks were being run on - and NOT related to the actual Snapdragon X Elite SoC.
@@Gaspode_I was that snapdragon employee who shared this info during demo.
80W TDP is system power which includes power related to X elite soc, DDRs, NVMe SSD, RF and what not.
What's the wattage for m3 pro and m3 max ?
I hope it will be in a Framework laptop soon.
So what's the wattage the M processors are running at in Apple laptops? Without this info no real comparisons can be made.
Amazing, I hope Linux (and maybe wine/proton?) support comes to the X elite powered devices soon.
I'm just waiting to see if we'll get any news about SDX Elite support for Linux. Until then, Macs are ahead thanks to Asahi
Question can the ssd and storage or ram.be upgraded after purchase and can you use a nvidia intel or amd egpu?
Since there are no commercial devices available yet, we unfortunately can't answer that.
DDRs can't be upgraded. NVMe is used as M2 module so it can be upgraded. Qualcomm soc supports X8 PCIe G4 for dgpu. It is upto OEMs if they expose this PCIe or not.
@RAHULSONI005 Interesting claims. Which laptop are you talking about? From which manufacturer?
@@RAHULSONI005 I'm not sure that is true as Sime have even managed to at least swap storage and allegedly ram in them apple m machines.
I think this is why laptop makers are fighting to remove qualcomms insistent they use their board parts exclusively.
I am hoping not every qualcomm board is forced to have non upgradeable soldered memory.
If it does that would be anti consumer and would set up another ridiculous profit scam by giving a low base ram count and making it super expensive to upgrade at time of purchase or impossible to do later.
Obviously if apple can do it then you I can and others if they can bypass apple chip ID and hardware and softwate locks designed to prevent upgradeability and repairability. Unless you are apple.
@@Tigerex966 there is no sodimm on these. DDR chips are soldered on board.
I think it is great to have a non-apple ARM option. If there was a laptop now with a Snap Dragon core I would buy it. I was an Apple fan but I have now only one old 2015 MBP that I want to replace. I am looking for options. Would I would like to see is the Geek Bench power vs power. This was displayed for the Snap Dragons but not the M3 chips. For a laptop, I would want the 23 watt version for battery life. What is missing is graphics capability. I don't play games but I do video processing.
NVidia is also planning to make ARM chips so in GPU wise those ARM chips will be powerful and lot more powerful than apple
When will X Elite products actually be in regular consumers' hands?
Interessting to see those ARM architectures so far really don't scale at all with power consumption.
23W X-Elite providing basically same performances as 80W X-Elite.
Please see the pinned comment for clarification on the power consumption. Also note that Apple's processors are Arm architecture.
Just imagine what superconductors can do
Is M3 on 3nm?
I would love to know how many Watts the M3 Max uses, and how it compares against the 80 Watt X Elite in terms of performance per Watt.
Just for clarification, the 23W/80W TDP figures are in regards to the reference devices running the benchmarks - and NOT related to the actual Snapdragon X Elite SoC.
At 3:26 you said that the Snapdragon beats everything but the M3 Max but what about the power draw of 80W? That's the same power draw of an Intel i7 laptop version so not really a usable case for a laptop. Still, for a first gen Snapdragon X Elite it's impressive. I just consider that the 80W case it's useless for ARM unless you use 80W for a chip that has double or triple the amount of cores than this. The sweet spot is under 45W for sure for a laptop.
I want to see standard UEFI Snapdragon X Elite laptop system with out of box support for Linux kernel. I bet Lenovo with release something for this new chip. They previously created Thinkpad X13s (arm64).
Thank you.
You're welcome!
A hands-off reference device really isn't the same as a production device that's actually in peoples' hands. So this is really still to be determined.
True, we will have to wait to see what the final consumer products are like, and more importantly the prices!
Main concern for Windows on ARM is software. The translation layer is worse than Rosetta 2 and barely any native apps compared to MacOS.
Love competition it only moves technology forward.
GPU?!
What about gpu?
Gary. I appreciate the video, but I think there's a misunderstanding with Qualcomm's TDP numbers. When I asked an employee on their Discord why the 80W TDP version seemed so in efficient for its power draw, I was told that the TDP numbers they provided were based on the Thermal Design Envelope of the device tested ; not by the chip, as calculated by their other competitors. They said comparing their chips to the others based on TDP/Performance wouldn't be truly reflective of the devices' performance/efficiency ; since they don't calculate TDP in the same manner. Based on their explanations, I'm guessing we'll only be able to the real TDP/performance of their chips, when their devices are available for testing, to be able to get good efficiency readings. Because I've seen several people here complaining about how inefficient the 80W TDP version is, without understanding that fact.
I'll send you the SS of the response I got from the Snapdragon Employee on X/Twitter, once I'm done sending this comment.
definitely switching to SDXE whenever its available in Thinkpad.
Laptops are nice, but when will we be able to build our own ARM computers as we can x86-64?
Also we should not be limited to just Windows as an alternative Mac in the ARM space.
Another way to say this is hardware and software parity for ARM with x-86-64.
Won’t the M4 be coming out around the same time as this ?
i don't think so
they should be coming out in summer
in october the snapdragon 8 gen 4 that also uses the oryon cores should launch
Amazing .
Would consider one only if they provide non soldered ram and storage.
We really have to see what production Snapdragon chips will do in performance in production computers. Are the chips Qualcomm chips binned for their show? We don’t know that. AMD and Intel have done that before. We’ll see.
It will still take time for Microsoft to get the software situation sorted out for Win on ARM.
Qualcomm, time to take a picture.
Hope Qualcomm dont f things up in pricing
I am a bit more interested in graphics and compute performance rather then generic geekbench cpu performance. The main issue I have been having with these are the graphics, AI, etc performance being well beneath x86_64 these days. The power consumption has come up enough recently due to all the extra cores and increased clock so the battery life isnt that big of a win anymore against things like AMDs offering.
It all comes down to graphics for me that will let me switch over from x86_64.
Cinebench is a better stress test.
What about GPU performance?
please make a video that compares the power consumption of M3 & X Elite
There are no actual SD X Elite devices yet, going beyond what I have said now would be unwise.