Hi Ed, A suggestion. Love all you vids. For us Electronics geeks, When you tour a shop or Install a beaut new Tormach, Please open the control panels and show us all the controls and machine systems. Seen the Haas Electronic controls but never seen, New Tormach, Okuma, Mazak, DMG Mori, Makino. Its an endless list of never seen. Would be great. Hope you can do this for us. There are a ton of us Elects that love both the inside as much as the machining. Thanks again for the great vids. Loved Seeing Laurens in NL. How good (OCD) was he for someone initially a non machinist. Thanks, thumbs up.
Don't blow air up your spindle. Just turn on your spindle at 8k for 30 seconds without the tool in. and cycle the tool in and out a few times. The grease will self distribute. wipe the pull stud if there is excessive goobers left. Nice vid. I would like to see the tool changer in action
Agreed. A good used Mini Mill can easily be had for $15k. It's no contest that the Haas is a better machine. It pays to shop around. Don't be afraid to look at used machines--have a tech inspect it if you're not knowledgeable enough yourself.
47k for comparable mini mill after hss, rigid tapping, 10k spindle and sm2 upgrade for table size...its a easy choice for machine shops but not for hobbyists
@@taylork057 A good used machine is a huge value. If you're willing to sacrifice a few inches on the travels, a regular Mini Mill can be had running for literally half the price of a new 1100MX. I know. I have one!
@@excelsiorsabersWhile i agree, the closet in size and rpm is a sm2, so finding one with all those options and for 12.500 still isnt likely.. youre still about the same price as a new 1100mx at current listings on ebay
I cannot believe your haas tech told you to blow compressed air up into your spindle bore. That bang you hear when tools have been in the spindle for too long is just the drawbar tapping on the top of the pull stud really hard, because that’s what happens when you tightly join two tapers together like that.
Now that we've established that I'm an 11 (or a louder 10), how about some accuracy tests? I would love to see the tolerances that the new Tormachs hold!
For measuring tool offsets offline, just turn/grind a BT-taper in a piece of round stock and keep the taper size correct to the top face of the block, so you can then zero your height gauge on the top surface, blop a tool in and measure its offset. Costs about an hour of work to do and basically needs a short section of round stock to machine it from.
my syil will do rigid tapping but I never bother. I have a single point cutter that works for all the thread size I need and it is just as fast. So much flexibility in one tool.
For tool setting offline you could get an adapter for the Speroni, or try the Nemi 30 taper tool setter. Though I guess you only have the Robodrill and this machine that would use them, so it might not be worth it.
The gauge length of the spindle isn't the nose of the spindle. For BT30 it's where the taper reaches 1.250" diameter. This can be measured with a bit of maths, and a large ball bearing in the taper. As for a way that most Tormach owners could use to preset the tool length offline, making something like this from WNT (possibly a new NYC CNC product, as I can't seem to find one to suit bt30) ( cdn.wnt.com/pic/mat/hol/pic_mat_hol_80720_all_esz.jpg ) . It doesn't need the drive dog, it could be as simple as a taper turned to an approximate diameter in a piece of aluminum, although it would be nice to have the top of it as 0 gauge line to zero out your height gauge, this just really needs to be a known value though. The important part is knowing where this gauge line is, and checking using the ball bearing, then the gauge length of the tool can simply be measured at the surface plate with a height gauge, much like the old tormach pre-setter. imgur.com/a/FojuVVn Something like this (as drawn by the most accurate CAD programme known to man, MS Paint...)
No. So much no to the grease and wd-40 in the spindle taper. The taper should be cleaned with a solvent like alcohol or acetone and wiped clean and dry, and greasing the pull stud grippers isn’t good either. Neither of these need lubrication. The drawbar it’s self need it, but not the spindle taper or draw bar grippers. Grease just invites dirt and dust to accumulate on the grippers making them sticky, same with the spindle. The sticking or popping of tools is due to running the machine at its max RPM for longer than it’s designed. Most machine manuals specifically state a maximum time limit to run at max RPM. Haas is actually ridiculous and typically state no more than 5 minutes. In uncooled spindles, running them a long time at max heats up the spindle and tool tapers causing the tapers to tighten. It can also be caused by running tool holders that aren’t balanced enough for the machine. With a 10k spindle, all holders need to have a rating of 2.5G @ 20k rpm. G6.3@10k is not balanced enough. This low balance causes the tool holder taper to wobble in the spindle at high RPM’s, which tightens the taper up excessively and causes excessive heat build up. If you feel absolutely compelled to spray something up there. Use a dry spray. Molykote 321 dry lubricant spray is acceptable and designed for Like metal on metal rotating contact applications. But no WD-40 and no globby grease. Avoid anything like that up the spindle. Spindles like to be clean and dry. Not oily and packed with shmoo.
Kinda true. The spindler have to be conpleatly clean and dry when you put in the tools and run the maskine But when you turn it off or let it stand for SoMe time ( like 9+ hours) then you need to spray the spindle taper with some anti rust ( like wd40) since IF not the the water in the air will start to rust the Surface of the taper and therefore the tool will then seat at a slight angle and be unbalanced And never ever use any kind of alcohol since it removes all the metal Protection ( like a super fine Oil film and stuff alike) and it will start rust i litherly minuts. I tried and say it with my own eyes on a few Haas vf2's and had to spend 30min to remove it without scratcging up the taper ( you can only whipe it down with Alcohol of it's some kind of super high nickle/cromium content stainless witch i dought it is )
Your'e better off getting a pm-25. You could have a hell of a setup for $7K, and use all that extra money for initial tooling. Using a conversion kit from UA-camr arizonavideo99 you basically eliminate backlash and get a .001" tolerance. There are plenty of videos out there by non sponsored UA-camrs sharing their stories. Heres one... ua-cam.com/video/FtnaqJuJ9kw/v-deo.html
Hoping to get one of these delivered to Sweden pretty soon.... Exiting times.. :) thanks for the vid... Whats your take on the super fly and sherhog? Will there be BT30 versions? Have not got a clear answer from Tormach yet.
I don’t think it’d be too hard to make a tool setting socket for your surface plate. If you calculate the distance between the gage face and flange, you wouldn’t necessarily need to cut a taper into the socket.
Have you guys considerd retro fitting it in any kind of way? I have plans for getting one and the conpleatly retro fit it ( basically keeping the fram. Enclouser and pathpilot and change everything else)
I have never ever seen in an american machining video measuring Radius or Diameter of milling tools only height. So how can u make precision part if you don't know the diameter? Wherever i worked in EU we have always measured the diameter of the the tool and entered into to the controller. Is there a reason not to do that?
On "machinist music", I had auto generated (english) captions turned on and during the pocket milling starting at about 6:30 the captions alternated between music and applause so guess the auto captioner is a machinist at heart.
I'm not a cnc expert by any means, but maybe they bought a Tormach because they are already experienced with the brand and prefer to have a machine they feel more comfortable with.
The gauge length of the spindle isn't the nose of the spindle. For BT30 it's where the taper reaches 1.250" diameter. This can be measured with a bit of maths, and a large ball bearing in the taper. As for a way that most Tormach owners could use to preset the tool length offline, making something like this from WNT (possibly a new NYC CNC product, as I can't seem to find one to suit bt30) ( cdn.wnt.com/pic/mat/hol/pic_mat_hol_80720_all_esz.jpg ) . It doesn't need the drive dog, it could be as simple as a taper turned to an approximate diameter in a piece of aluminum, although it would be nice to have the top of it as 0 gauge line to zero out your height gauge, this just really needs to be a known value though. The important part is knowing where this gauge line is, and checking using the ball bearing, then the gauge length of the tool can simply be measured at the surface plate with a height gauge, much like the old tormach pre-setter. imgur.com/a/FojuVVn Something like this (as drawn by the most accurate CAD programme known to man, MS Paint...) Great videos, loved to see the new machine!
P.S. Someone in the comments made the joke is the coolant milk. I saw an old machinists handbook, and it advised milk as a cutting fluid for copper. I'd love to see someone test to see if this works at all, just out of curiosity. amp.reddit.com/r/Machinists/comments/e69je4/check_out_the_lubricant_for_copper_in_this_40s/
What's worrying me here is the base cost of this thing. I thought over time they'd be replacing old features with new features with only a slow price increase. I paid around 8k shipped for my 770 series 3 new a few years ago. By the time I added stand and pile of other accessories and tooling I had gone a little over budget at $12k but I was well set up with enough tooling to make stuff. The base price of the 1100MX is just... out there. I'd have never gotten into CNC machining without that $10k and under entry price. I'm absolutely fine with them selling the MX class machines. They serve a market for sure. But Tormach might lose itself if it ever stops selling "everything to actually make chips" machines under 10k. The 1100 series 3 was already past my price range at that point in time. What I would have killed for is the 770, base package, with the 1.5hp 10k servo spindle. No other frills. That would enable rigid tapping, more low RPM grunt for milling high temp alloys, bigger drill bits at proper RPMs, slitting saws at proper RPMs, etc... The table motors can stay with the tried and true cheap steppers for all I care they've been good.
Honest questions but why would you buy a tormach 1100mx for 25,000+ when you could buy a haas tm1 for 5,000ish more? The tm1 is twice the machine the tormach is for 10 to 15% more. That's not much of a difference when you are talking about business investment.
Closer to $11K difference once you upgrade the TM1 from standard 4K spindle to 10K. Then add $1600 for rigid tapping. Does the TM1 have a toolchanger option? Couldn't see it on their site. You do get quite a bit more spindle horsepower on the TM1 though. Axis speeds are roughly similar, 200ipm for Haas and 300 for Tormach.
@@alphgeek Now that the Tormach runs standard bt30 holders you wont save anything on holders now. By the time you tool up the machines and buy vises and other supporting equipment the price difference diminishes. TM1P is the version with tool changer. Haas often has 10% off and other deals going and very easy financing. I own both a Haas and Tormach, Haas cost more but more value in my opinion. To me the value of Tormach was with power drawbar and stand.
alphgeek I was just looking at that, but if I was in the market for a $25,000 machine I would be looking at a used low hour haas. And it’s cat 40 tooling too. I like that tormach added servos and a proper spindle but it comes at quit a premium. The main draw back for me is tormachs dove tail ways. I have upgraded my RF 45 grizzly clone with linear bearings and it made such a huge difference I wouldn’t go back to dovetail ways. I am looking at doing the x and y soon.
I’m gonna go with 3phase power vs single phase power. Sure. Phase converters and VFD’s exist, but you always lose something in the process converting single phase to 3 phase. It’s also a more compact machine allowing it to be put in someone’s garage or basement and can be moved without the need to call in riggers. And you’re pricing is off. A Tm-1P with similar capabilities to this 1100mx is going to run you just north of $45k. Even if you score on a 20% end of year discount, that’s still the $38k mark. And that’s before the cost of freight and rigging.
@@northernsmith I agree about the linear bearings. My next home CNC will be the new one coming out from Vulcan Machine Tool. They use linear bearings as well, 12K spindle, something like a 1200lb casting, etc.. They are here on UTube as welll.
A fully functioning, not worn out haas, that can do what this does, is at least 15k and the rigging is best case 5k. So 20k-35k is probably what you are looking at. right in the ball park of this machine. So do you want a new Tormach or a used Haas. Both options have appeal.
Fair point. The base price for this is extremely close to a new TM1 ($25k). On the other hand, the TM1 is really bare and doesn't even have a toolchanger.
Yeah, I always wondered why people use milk for coolant. I tried it once for about a week, but it went sour and stunk up my shop. Total mess to clean up & it still smells in my shop 6 months later!!
the best toolholder for a light machine is the shortest one. bt30 hydolics are getting to long and the spindel cant handle the force.... Bin there in a haas with the 30.000 rpm spindels.
I watch a lot of NYC CNC video's and I always wondered if coolant is recycled in the machine, it seems like a massive waste not to but it is also filled with chips so it might be hard to do. Can anybody give me and answer if coolant is usually reused?
For that price, the accuracy just isnt there at all, it might, MIGHT hold a couple thousands, but thats on a great day. If youre looking at this buy a haas mini mill, that will hold marginally tighter tolerances, not consistently but hey its a cheap CNC, if you need tight tolerances youre looking at okuma or DMG.
I will file a complaint against this Tormach company through all the channels I use. This is because I have not sent the product for more than 3 months without any reason for my order and there is no response to the refund request. I hope that companies like this don't do that.
Tormach machines are a piece of shit. They are nothing but mini mills with tool changers & enclosures. After you level & square the machine the first 3 test cuts are a square, triangle, & a circle. Doing this will tell you how you have to adjust the machine. I know since my father & brother not only assembled CNC machine tools but also installed them. They also did a lot of warranty work. They had worked for Ingersoll Milling Machine which made a lot of stud bore machines but also made a lot of custom machines and machining lines for companies such as GE Aircraft Engines, Nuclear, & Gas & Steam Turbines, GM 231 engine machining lines, Cooper, & more. Their machines were one of the best machines made that the Soviet Union had a couple of nuclear missiles targeted for Rockford, Ill. since Rockford was considered the machine tool capital of the world.
I file a complaint against a company like an American scammer. Tormach This company does not send the ordered goods. Of course, the approval was made in October 2021. I file a complaint against fraud against customers of these companies.
I know of a product that would put wd to shame. It's called break free. If it can take a frozen up rusted bearing and get it free spinning in less than a minute, can wd do that? Haven't seen it yet. Just need a little break free to use. And no, I don't get paid to endorse this product. Although, break free is a little pricey, you don't need a lot. Gun owners use it. 🤔🤔🤔
hey guys. wonderful videos. but one thing. can yall drink some water before doing the voice-over? the lip-smacking is driving me up the wall. coffee is good but it drys you out.
Hi Ed, A suggestion. Love all you vids. For us Electronics geeks, When you tour a shop or Install a beaut new Tormach, Please open the control panels and show us all the controls and machine systems. Seen the Haas Electronic controls but never seen, New Tormach, Okuma, Mazak, DMG Mori, Makino. Its an endless list of never seen. Would be great. Hope you can do this for us. There are a ton of us Elects that love both the inside as much as the machining. Thanks again for the great vids. Loved Seeing Laurens in NL. How good (OCD) was he for someone initially a non machinist. Thanks, thumbs up.
My 1100M arrives any-day and I've been waiting for this video as I am definitely hoping to upgrade it to MX shortly in the new year!
Don't blow air up your spindle. Just turn on your spindle at 8k for 30 seconds without the tool in. and cycle the tool in and out a few times. The grease will self distribute. wipe the pull stud if there is excessive goobers left. Nice vid. I would like to see the tool changer in action
if youre thinking about buying this, just get a haas mini mill
Agreed. A good used Mini Mill can easily be had for $15k. It's no contest that the Haas is a better machine. It pays to shop around. Don't be afraid to look at used machines--have a tech inspect it if you're not knowledgeable enough yourself.
47k for comparable mini mill after hss, rigid tapping, 10k spindle and sm2 upgrade for table size...its a easy choice for machine shops but not for hobbyists
@@taylork057 A good used machine is a huge value. If you're willing to sacrifice a few inches on the travels, a regular Mini Mill can be had running for literally half the price of a new 1100MX. I know. I have one!
Or a syil
@@excelsiorsabersWhile i agree, the closet in size and rpm is a sm2, so finding one with all those options and for 12.500 still isnt likely.. youre still about the same price as a new 1100mx at current listings on ebay
Cute little machine with a lot of features.
I cannot believe your haas tech told you to blow compressed air up into your spindle bore. That bang you hear when tools have been in the spindle for too long is just the drawbar tapping on the top of the pull stud really hard, because that’s what happens when you tightly join two tapers together like that.
That is a nice video with the 1100MX . Thanks Ed for that . Greetings from Germany
Good video, thanks for sharing
It would be interesting to see a video of how the tool changer works with BT30 tools
“These go to eleven.” I effing love Ed.
Now that we've established that I'm an 11 (or a louder 10), how about some accuracy tests? I would love to see the tolerances that the new Tormachs hold!
what
For measuring tool offsets offline, just turn/grind a BT-taper in a piece of round stock and keep the taper size correct to the top face of the block, so you can then zero your height gauge on the top surface, blop a tool in and measure its offset. Costs about an hour of work to do and basically needs a short section of round stock to machine it from.
my syil will do rigid tapping but I never bother. I have a single point cutter that works for all the thread size I need and it is just as fast. So much flexibility in one tool.
Would have been great to see the finished part and surface finish up close :)
Great video looking forward to seeing more recipes from this machine on proven cut its proving to be a real asset
For tool setting offline you could get an adapter for the Speroni, or try the Nemi 30 taper tool setter. Though I guess you only have the Robodrill and this machine that would use them, so it might not be worth it.
The gauge length of the spindle isn't the nose of the spindle. For BT30 it's where the taper reaches 1.250" diameter. This can be measured with a bit of maths, and a large ball bearing in the taper.
As for a way that most Tormach owners could use to preset the tool length offline, making something like this from WNT (possibly a new NYC CNC product, as I can't seem to find one to suit bt30) ( cdn.wnt.com/pic/mat/hol/pic_mat_hol_80720_all_esz.jpg ) . It doesn't need the drive dog, it could be as simple as a taper turned to an approximate diameter in a piece of aluminum, although it would be nice to have the top of it as 0 gauge line to zero out your height gauge, this just really needs to be a known value though. The important part is knowing where this gauge line is, and checking using the ball bearing, then the gauge length of the tool can simply be measured at the surface plate with a height gauge, much like the old tormach pre-setter.
imgur.com/a/FojuVVn
Something like this (as drawn by the most accurate CAD programme known to man, MS Paint...)
An 11" Y-Axis travel?!?
It actually goes to 11!!!
Is that good for Spinal Tapping or just rigid tapping?
No. So much no to the grease and wd-40 in the spindle taper. The taper should be cleaned with a solvent like alcohol or acetone and wiped clean and dry, and greasing the pull stud grippers isn’t good either. Neither of these need lubrication. The drawbar it’s self need it, but not the spindle taper or draw bar grippers.
Grease just invites dirt and dust to accumulate on the grippers making them sticky, same with the spindle.
The sticking or popping of tools is due to running the machine at its max RPM for longer than it’s designed. Most machine manuals specifically state a maximum time limit to run at max RPM. Haas is actually ridiculous and typically state no more than 5 minutes. In uncooled spindles, running them a long time at max heats up the spindle and tool tapers causing the tapers to tighten. It can also be caused by running tool holders that aren’t balanced enough for the machine. With a 10k spindle, all holders need to have a rating of 2.5G @ 20k rpm. G6.3@10k is not balanced enough. This low balance causes the tool holder taper to wobble in the spindle at high RPM’s, which tightens the taper up excessively and causes excessive heat build up.
If you feel absolutely compelled to spray something up there. Use a dry spray. Molykote 321 dry lubricant spray is acceptable and designed for Like metal on metal rotating contact applications.
But no WD-40 and no globby grease. Avoid anything like that up the spindle. Spindles like to be clean and dry. Not oily and packed with shmoo.
Kinda true.
The spindler have to be conpleatly clean and dry when you put in the tools and run the maskine
But when you turn it off or let it stand for SoMe time ( like 9+ hours) then you need to spray the spindle taper with some anti rust ( like wd40) since IF not the the water in the air will start to rust the Surface of the taper and therefore the tool will then seat at a slight angle and be unbalanced
And never ever use any kind of alcohol since it removes all the metal Protection ( like a super fine Oil film and stuff alike) and it will start rust i litherly minuts. I tried and say it with my own eyes on a few Haas vf2's and had to spend 30min to remove it without scratcging up the taper ( you can only whipe it down with Alcohol of it's some kind of super high nickle/cromium content stainless witch i dought it is )
Haha, great "This is Spinal Tap" reference.
Enjoyed Ed!
ATB, Robin
Plus 100 for Spinal Tap reference
My brother . This is spinal tap 👍
Gonna be buying one of these in February! So stoked :)
Your'e better off getting a pm-25. You could have a hell of a setup for $7K, and use all that extra money for initial tooling. Using a conversion kit from UA-camr arizonavideo99 you basically eliminate backlash and get a .001" tolerance. There are plenty of videos out there by non sponsored UA-camrs sharing their stories. Heres one... ua-cam.com/video/FtnaqJuJ9kw/v-deo.html
Hoping to get one of these delivered to Sweden pretty soon.... Exiting times.. :) thanks for the vid...
Whats your take on the super fly and sherhog? Will there be BT30 versions? Have not got a clear answer from Tormach yet.
Hade varit intressant med lite video på hur du tycker maskinen fungerar etc 👍
@@AlexKall We will see in about 8weeks.. :)
Kind of weird but there's a chance I may be mock interviewing with someone from tormach tomorrow
If you guys are tapping holes in aluminum fixtures, are you going to use helicoils ?
I don’t think it’d be too hard to make a tool setting socket for your surface plate. If you calculate the distance between the gage face and flange, you wouldn’t necessarily need to cut a taper into the socket.
What was the music at 0:33 ? Sounded like "Chips" by UMC 🤣
better than the 70s porno music through the rest of the vid lol.
I see some people offer machine buying advice after the machine has already been bought. What's the point ?
Were you having trouble screw the two bottom screws on the operator stand because the tube is too long? Thanks!
Have you guys considerd retro fitting it in any kind of way?
I have plans for getting one and the conpleatly retro fit it ( basically keeping the fram. Enclouser and pathpilot and change everything else)
I have never ever seen in an american machining video measuring Radius or Diameter of milling tools only height. So how can u make precision part if you don't know the diameter? Wherever i worked in EU we have always measured the diameter of the the tool and entered into to the controller. Is there a reason not to do that?
I really hope santa brings me one of these, along with a shop electrical upgrade
OOOO YEAH!!! hahahahah
Greetings,
Jeff
It goes up to 11 👍🏼😃
Still though always handy to know how to measure offline just in case!
Which modular plate are you using on this machine? would love to get one thanks
Hopefully some new videos soon.
Why do you guys only demo Tormach machines using aluminum?
Make corn hole boards with the left over plywood.
Friend what is the power of the servo motor for the axis?
Nicely equipped with the "best" of the goodies and options, comes out to $40k
On "machinist music", I had auto generated (english) captions turned on and during the pocket milling starting at about 6:30 the captions alternated between music and applause so guess the auto captioner is a machinist at heart.
I'm not a cnc expert by any means, but maybe they bought a Tormach because they are already experienced with the brand and prefer to have a machine they feel more comfortable with.
The gauge length of the spindle isn't the nose of the spindle. For BT30 it's where the taper reaches 1.250" diameter. This can be measured with a bit of maths, and a large ball bearing in the taper.
As for a way that most Tormach owners could use to preset the tool length offline, making something like this from WNT (possibly a new NYC CNC product, as I can't seem to find one to suit bt30) ( cdn.wnt.com/pic/mat/hol/pic_mat_hol_80720_all_esz.jpg ) . It doesn't need the drive dog, it could be as simple as a taper turned to an approximate diameter in a piece of aluminum, although it would be nice to have the top of it as 0 gauge line to zero out your height gauge, this just really needs to be a known value though. The important part is knowing where this gauge line is, and checking using the ball bearing, then the gauge length of the tool can simply be measured at the surface plate with a height gauge, much like the old tormach pre-setter.
imgur.com/a/FojuVVn
Something like this (as drawn by the most accurate CAD programme known to man, MS Paint...)
Great videos, loved to see the new machine!
P.S. Someone in the comments made the joke is the coolant milk. I saw an old machinists handbook, and it advised milk as a cutting fluid for copper. I'd love to see someone test to see if this works at all, just out of curiosity.
amp.reddit.com/r/Machinists/comments/e69je4/check_out_the_lubricant_for_copper_in_this_40s/
What's worrying me here is the base cost of this thing. I thought over time they'd be replacing old features with new features with only a slow price increase. I paid around 8k shipped for my 770 series 3 new a few years ago. By the time I added stand and pile of other accessories and tooling I had gone a little over budget at $12k but I was well set up with enough tooling to make stuff. The base price of the 1100MX is just... out there. I'd have never gotten into CNC machining without that $10k and under entry price. I'm absolutely fine with them selling the MX class machines. They serve a market for sure. But Tormach might lose itself if it ever stops selling "everything to actually make chips" machines under 10k. The 1100 series 3 was already past my price range at that point in time. What I would have killed for is the 770, base package, with the 1.5hp 10k servo spindle. No other frills. That would enable rigid tapping, more low RPM grunt for milling high temp alloys, bigger drill bits at proper RPMs, slitting saws at proper RPMs, etc... The table motors can stay with the tried and true cheap steppers for all I care they've been good.
You got this so you can expedite the J5 project, right❓
How about measuring accuracy and repeatability?
Circular interpolation accuracy as well? The public demand ball-bar tests! More optical interferometry!
Honest questions but why would you buy a tormach 1100mx for 25,000+ when you could buy a haas tm1 for 5,000ish more? The tm1 is twice the machine the tormach is for 10 to 15% more. That's not much of a difference when you are talking about business investment.
Closer to $11K difference once you upgrade the TM1 from standard 4K spindle to 10K. Then add $1600 for rigid tapping. Does the TM1 have a toolchanger option? Couldn't see it on their site. You do get quite a bit more spindle horsepower on the TM1 though. Axis speeds are roughly similar, 200ipm for Haas and 300 for Tormach.
@@alphgeek Now that the Tormach runs standard bt30 holders you wont save anything on holders now. By the time you tool up the machines and buy vises and other supporting equipment the price difference diminishes. TM1P is the version with tool changer. Haas often has 10% off and other deals going and very easy financing. I own both a Haas and Tormach, Haas cost more but more value in my opinion. To me the value of Tormach was with power drawbar and stand.
alphgeek I was just looking at that, but if I was in the market for a $25,000 machine I would be looking at a used low hour haas. And it’s cat 40 tooling too. I like that tormach added servos and a proper spindle but it comes at quit a premium. The main draw back for me is tormachs dove tail ways. I have upgraded my RF 45 grizzly clone with linear bearings and it made such a huge difference I wouldn’t go back to dovetail ways. I am looking at doing the x and y soon.
I’m gonna go with 3phase power vs single phase power.
Sure. Phase converters and VFD’s exist, but you always lose something in the process converting single phase to 3 phase.
It’s also a more compact machine allowing it to be put in someone’s garage or basement and can be moved without the need to call in riggers.
And you’re pricing is off. A Tm-1P with similar capabilities to this 1100mx is going to run you just north of $45k. Even if you score on a 20% end of year discount, that’s still the $38k mark. And that’s before the cost of freight and rigging.
@@northernsmith I agree about the linear bearings. My next home CNC will be the new one coming out from Vulcan Machine Tool. They use linear bearings as well, 12K spindle, something like a 1200lb casting, etc.. They are here on UTube as welll.
Not sure how one could live with such an opaque milky coolant, can’t see a darned thing.
For the price range, get a used VMC or put a down payment on a new one
A fully functioning, not worn out haas, that can do what this does, is at least 15k and the rigging is best case 5k.
So 20k-35k is probably what you are looking at. right in the ball park of this machine.
So do you want a new Tormach or a used Haas. Both options have appeal.
Fair point. The base price for this is extremely close to a new TM1 ($25k). On the other hand, the TM1 is really bare and doesn't even have a toolchanger.
There are plenty of good used machines out there in this price range. I have a 2003 Johnford SV-48 with a 10" Tsudakoma 4th axis.
I paid $30K.
@@kkknotcool I just wait until the next recession for bankruptcies to soar, and get a super deal on a HAAS or perhaps better machine.
@@guytech7310 That's kinda like buying gold and waiting for a recession to buy cheap stocks.
Sounds great offhand but the math doesn't work out.
is that milk? 2% or 3.25%
Yeah, I always wondered why people use milk for coolant. I tried it once for about a week, but it went sour and stunk up my shop. Total mess to clean up & it still smells in my shop 6 months later!!
the best toolholder for a light machine is the shortest one. bt30 hydolics are getting to long and the spindel cant handle the force.... Bin there in a haas with the 30.000 rpm spindels.
SPINAL TAP! Turn it to 11!
I watch a lot of NYC CNC video's and I always wondered if coolant is recycled in the machine, it seems like a massive waste not to but it is also filled with chips so it might be hard to do. Can anybody give me and answer if coolant is usually reused?
yes, its strained and filtered. There is loss over time so it needs topping up.
@@peterpeters6168 Thank you for this answer
Spinal Tap!
Better than a new car..
For that price, the accuracy just isnt there at all, it might, MIGHT hold a couple thousands, but thats on a great day. If youre looking at this buy a haas mini mill, that will hold marginally tighter tolerances, not consistently but hey its a cheap CNC, if you need tight tolerances youre looking at okuma or DMG.
Was that a reference to Spinal Tap? Was Spinal Tap rigid? Is anybody reading this comment?
Spinal tap . Now I win a 1100mx right? xD
Time to build some 80% lowers
Like the machine, but lame they still don't have decent way covers as they get ever closer to HAAS in cost if not in performance
For that price it better have linear ways!
Nope.
6:14 put nozzles
I will file a complaint against this Tormach company through all the channels I use.
This is because I have not sent the product for more than 3 months without any reason for my order and there is no response to the refund request.
I hope that companies like this don't do that.
It didn't sound to good with a1/4 end mill bogging the spindle down that much.
now I know why you don't use vises...machine can't handle the weight
Made in China
Manuel Maseda Ok
Hi, can you apply following test to that machine:
ua-cam.com/video/0cxLiSJ7eDg/v-deo.html
I would be really interested about the result!
Give me 1
Tormach machines are a piece of shit. They are nothing but mini mills with tool changers & enclosures. After you level & square the machine the first 3 test cuts are a square, triangle, & a circle. Doing this will tell you how you have to adjust the machine. I know since my father & brother not only assembled CNC machine tools but also installed them. They also did a lot of warranty work. They had worked for Ingersoll Milling Machine which made a lot of stud bore machines but also made a lot of custom machines and machining lines for companies such as GE Aircraft Engines, Nuclear, & Gas & Steam Turbines, GM 231 engine machining lines, Cooper, & more. Their machines were one of the best machines made that the Soviet Union had a couple of nuclear missiles targeted for Rockford, Ill. since Rockford was considered the machine tool capital of the world.
I file a complaint against a company like an American scammer.
Tormach This company does not send the ordered goods. Of course, the approval was made in October 2021. I file a complaint against fraud against customers of these companies.
I know of a product that would put wd to shame. It's called break free. If it can take a frozen up rusted bearing and get it free spinning in less than a minute, can wd do that? Haven't seen it yet. Just need a little break free to use. And no, I don't get paid to endorse this product. Although, break free is a little pricey, you don't need a lot. Gun owners use it. 🤔🤔🤔
hey guys. wonderful videos. but one thing. can yall drink some water before doing the voice-over? the lip-smacking is driving me up the wall. coffee is good but it drys you out.
First
I still just find it hard to trust a review of the machine given your sponsored by this brand
Waste of money