They are actually used in many places throughout the game, but they usually just go around in little circles. These two are the only ones that folow Mario.
@@RipVanFish09 You’re right! You’d think years of 16-star runs and long jumping into them over and over in the first Bowser stage would have lock them into my mind, but it seems I blanked those little guys out…
There's Goombas in the pyramid, would it be possible to use them for extra jumps similar to BoB? Idk if it's doable without Bob ombs but figured I'd throw it out there
Yeah, we were talking about causing a goomba to "jump" repeatedly by leaving and coming back before it reaches the ground, but I got my facts confused and caused some problems. We can't get PU speed unless we BLJ on a grindel precisely, but assume we could. We can use the 10k glitch which reflects our speed repeatedly to rapidly run into a goomba then leave its activation radius, causing it to jump in midair. Getting hit loses all our speed unless we can get squished then pushed off a ledge by smth like a spindel if it were right next to the goomba. Anyway, too many of these requirements are just complete nonsense so idk, it doesn't seem good to me...
@@sm64guy28 in fact, every area with a grabbable object is already 0.5xA or 0xA, as long as you don't count grabbable objects that you have to press A to reach in BitFS
I think the craziest thing about how close we are is that the pyramid even has a second entrance that circumvents this problem, only to unfortunately have its own problems which (currently) require an A-press.
It would be funny if one of those giant moving blocks enemies had some minor rounding error that let it move out of place enough that you could catch a ride on it, but I think this is not how the game works
Unfortunately the game uses shorts for angles and not floats. So it's all done with integer maths. And the Grendel works by turning 180 degrees after it moves far enough from its home. And it only starts moving again after it completes the full rotation. So it all seems pretty glitch free to me.
I’m just spitballing here… I may have no idea what I’m talking about, but hear me out. I seem to recall that, once you enter the pyramid, any time you die, you’ll restart the level from within the pyramid once you re-enter the wall. Is there any sort of trickery that you could do on ANOTHER level so that things start getting modified here? Alternately, MIPS the rabbit could be running around the outside of this level in the castle hall; can you set any clone values or anything with him before you re-enter the level? I don’t really know how a lot of stuff here works. But usually, whenever I hit a roadblock on my work, I try to approach things from an entirely different angle and work my way back around to see if it helps. I hope that you’re able to find a solution soon, and I look forward to seeing the breakthrough when it happens!
@@louisdemeaux6318 I’m just talking about easiest saves, not necessarily what they’ll focus on. Often after a star is reduced to 0.5xA, it is reduced quickly to 0xA. There are of course notable exceptions that have remained 0.5xA for quite a while.
i like how most remaining a presses are repeated/similar 2 ssl a presses in the pyramid 2 thi a presses in the cave 5 a presses in the top of the castle (2 are the same but mirrored, 3 are the same) 2 a presses in the cloud level
@@minirop And IIRC the top route just barely doesn't work by a margin of 7 units, we'd be able to get out of that elevator with a dive recover if the wall was 7 units shorter. But there's just nothing to work with up there.
@@BrettMKWis a slide kick bounce the same as a dive recover? I mean isn’t the bounce from that relative to how far Mario fell. Even still there wouldn’t be enough time to grab inside the ancient pyramid but maybe for pyramid puzzle?
@@charmandergamer1287 I double checked the video, the slide kick bounce (even with the platform moving downwards) misses by 31 units, so quite a bit worse than the dive recover which in itself is too short. But yes, even if it was high enough, it's still not trivial because of the time factor. You'd have to land on something that's as high as the top of the pole. EDIT: Nevermind, the top of the pole height wouldn't even work for the pyramid star in this instance as the bottom route uses the platform (which is no longer there since we activated it) to get to the star. So yeah, time is definitely an issue but if it were possible it would likely work for the puzzle star.
Can't you skip using the 100 coin star by using sliding speed? I mean, understandable that you cannot bring a goomba all the way up, but how about bringing it up 1 floor to skip the 100 coin star and make it useful elsewhere? Like raising a scuttlebug, but you raise a goomba, you do it for the pole before the 100 coin star. Seems less sketchy, but I mean, if goombas could be raised, JRB wouldn't have been such a deal for many years. I've read on a reply of a comment around here that bringing up a goomba doesn't seem viable, but that it could be possible "Yeah, we were talking about causing a goomba to "jump" repeatedly by leaving and coming back before it reaches the ground, but I got my facts confused and caused some problems. We can't get PU speed unless we BLJ on a grindel precisely, but assume we could. We can use the 10k glitch which reflects our speed repeatedly to rapidly run into a goomba then leave its activation radius, causing it to jump in midair. Getting hit loses all our speed unless we can get squished then pushed off a ledge by smth like a spindel if it were right next to the goomba. Anyway, too many of these requirements are just complete nonsense so idk, it doesn't seem good to me..." Can't 2 amps push or displace you, even if you receive no knockback or damage?
@@renakunisaki thats only on ultra 64 controllers which arent compatible with real console and the L button input isnt on emu because control is based off n64 instead of u64
My only idea would be to mess around with the grindel/spindel on the lower levels and see if there are any janky things you can do with them. I haven't played mario 64 in many years so I might be wrong about this, but I seem to recall that if you stand on top of the grindel on the first floor, he jumps high enough to squish mario a little bit between him and the ceiling above. Even if that is true, I doubt it would prove useful in anyway but you never know.
Since poles seem to be a reoccurring theme in the remaining A presses in both this and BitFS, would it be an idea to do a deeper dive in what can and can't make Mario drop off a pole, and what sort of height and momentum each of those options provide.
@@Dziaji Thanks for the snarky response, but I was talking about a more general video that tested all kinds of interactions. This video is only about Amps.
@@Aspharon you are most welcome, good sir. I don't think there is much to dive into. Knock-back off poles just knocks you to the bottom, and there doesn't seem to be anything that helps get lateral movement off a pole besides A.
So I'm assuming you can't update the homes of Amps like Scuttlebugs, or at least in any meaningful way? Or anything else in the pyramid, for that matter?
I don't remember, do you need a preset HOLP to get into the lower entrance of the pyramid, or in some other spot inside the pyramid? If not, is it possible to clone anything useful and place it at the top of the pole?
A bit of a stretch, but is there something you could do with the goomba in this map? Like somehow getting it to hit Mario on the pole with enough knockback to make it to the next floor?
The Spindel very briefly forms Pedro spots with the ground in certain areas according to some testing I just did. Not sure how useful they would prove...
generally pedro spots aren't that useful in ABC if a star is already down to 1 A press. The main use case for them is to build up enough speed that one jump clears what would normally require several jumps
Can't the amp push you or displace you, even if it doesn't stun you? If you have 20 goombas or amps pushing you around when you can't receive damage or knockback, can they push you around like walls or move you?
There is MUCH more to work with in TTC (heaveho, several moving objects, fire spitters, and most importantly bob-ombs to clone with). The Pyramid really doesnt have much at all (a couple goombas at the bottom, a couple thwomps at the bottom, a warp zone, and amps). You can't clone, build hyperspeed, manipulate any enemies into helping you (aside from amps (((POSSIBLY, BUT PROBABLY NOT)))).
I know certain enemies can push Mario around when he's in an invincible state, but I don't know which ones do or don't. It's unlikely, but just for the sake of covering all bases: Does the Amp have collision with Mario? If so, can the Amp push Mario around if he's in an invincible state? If so, then we might be able to cross one of the marks off by completely skipping the ledge grab altogether and just having it push us onto or into the floor. If not, then is there anything else you can bring up there? or is it time to look at other niche mechanics in the pyramid such as the climbable roof or the quicksand?
i don't suppose there's any bizarre floating point error nonsense with any object in the room, similar to the floor in one of the bowser levels, which would cause an element/entity to wander from its intended location? Such... lovely sounds to listen to hear for days on end to allow floating point error accumulation if so :D. no odd glitches that allow Mario to grab things he normally couldn't (due to having a collision box bigger than a grab radius) by clipping into them at-speed?
iirc, the rising floor in the bowser level (BitFS?) is emulator-onky, since the emulator rounds numbers using a ceiling function. The n64 version does not, which is why the rising floor is emulator-specific, and hasn't saved any a presses since the discovery and implementation of spawning displacement, a Japanese N64-only glitch. Maybe on emulator there's a tiny chance something could happen, but it wouldn't save any A presses I think since it wouldn't be saved in the version that has the fewest A presses.
So I'm wondering, that Spindel on the bottom that rolls around you can see in the last part of the video, would it be possible to apply PU rotational displacement on him? Im sure there's no way to get hyperspeed inside the pyramid, but if it were possible, would landing on him as he's rolling transmit Mario upward the same way you can do for other rotating platforms?
Yes, but getting PU speed in the Pyramid seems unlikely. There's a few options (a pedro spot, which requires A to get out of. And a hyperspeed jumpkicking spot that iirc you dont get much speed out of) but these options are at the very bottom of the Pyramid and that spindel is almost at the top.. and scaling the Pyramid with hyperspeed from bottom to top is undoubtedly impossible (bad geometry, also scaling requires a sdc which would kill all speed).
Do the parallel universes also travel "up" so to speak? Or vertical? I remember the grid you used to explain these and I also remember the fish that swims forever all the way into other universes. Both of those lead me to envision the PUs as somthing that exists beyond horizons but if Mario or the fish were to travel indefinitely skywards are there PUs in that direction as well? I'm not sure if that's relevant to solving the pyramid. The Pole has me thinking of up and down.
yea they do! its used in the one key tas and there usualy called vpus however im pretty sure u can only stay in them for lik a frame or sumthing lik that
Determining Mario's floor is done with a signed 16 bit integer, but actual floor height is still done via float. This makes VPUs very strange, and occasionally useful: Positive VPU - Everything above y=20000 is ceiling, so you can't move. Since there's no floor, you continually fall until you're below where the floor gets detected, which puts you out of bounds and kills you. Negative VPU - If you negative jump with enough backwards speed to go to a negative VPU it will detect the floor, compare your height to the floor height, and determine that you should land since you're lower than the floor. This snaps you to the floor height of the main level, meaning you spent no time in the VPU. If you use rotational displacement via a moving platform, you get upwarped to the default water level of -11000. This is out of bounds in every level, and you instantly die.
Instead of trying to eliminate the A press entirely, is it possible to reduce it to half? I don't know if just releasing the A button lets you jump off a pole or not, but if it does then that's better than nothing.
Couldn't their be some other way to get up their without the pole? Is there any possible way to get up ther without the pole or am i just speaking nonsensical delusions
Amps are looking like the biggest lead (and have been for years and years and years), there's really nothing else in the Pyramid that looks even slightly helpful. The only other option that could produce something (but probably wouldnt) is speed (where you would use PU rotational displacement or something similar to ETitV), which I think can be built for a little bit but requires an A press to get into the spot (or out, bc iirc it's a pedro spot), and even if it didn't then it would require A presses to get use out of that speed because nothing towards the top of the Pyramid can be used to build speed, only maybe 1 or 2 things at the very bottom (which would then make scaling the Pyramid impossible bc you have too much speed).
Is there any way to build up speed outside of the pyramid and conserve it through the transition to the interior? I believe you can conserve speed through certain transitions, although I think those require crouching on the first frame in the new area, which wouldn't work in the pyramid since both transitions start you in midair. Still, figured I'd float the idea since it could be useful if possible.
A part of me wonders if there's something completely unrelated to the problem that's been overlooked. Like maybe getting squished by the rolling thwomp while ledge grabbing at the same frame could cause the ledge grab coordinates to move to a higher part of the level (very very unlikely but I thought it sounded cool).
are any speed/velocity values conserved when entering the pyramid? I'm guessing no but just thought I'd ask. As for the pole its the BitFS problem but without anything grabable so even worse? No way to do any VSC for something as high as the pole. Does anything make mario slide in the pyramid?
Got a new idea: if Mario does nothing for a while, he changes his position for sleeping. And that level has quicksand. Idea: Place yourself near deadly quicksand and wait for Mario to sleep into that quicksand. And than something happen that you must figure out. For real: This probably does nothing.
For real: The model of mario doesn't actually move when he falls asleep, but even if it did, it would either do nothing or kil mario For extra real: If he slept near quicksand, he would probably soil his pants and catch a sunburn
Using a hacked position, is it possible to get past the pole using a star dance clip? I understand that one was already used earlier in the pyramid climb, but if it works on this specific spot it could potentially mean you would have to get either past this pole OR the large platform lower down. Even if getting past the platform on the lower floor is completely impossible without a SDC it would still be interesting to see.
Knowing how broken this game is, I'm surprised there's no workaround for poles in general. Maybe something like saving up Mario's momentum before he drops off the pole?
There are a few ways to get hyperspeed in the pyramid (a pedro spot and a hsjk spot) both of which dont build great speed iirc, and the 1st requires an A press. Not to mention, but both are at the bottom of the Pyramid, and scaling the Pyramid with hyperspeed is 100% not going to happen (bad geometry and literally requires a sdc which would kill all speed).
Manipulating the eyerok boss was considered before, but nobody has ever been able to manipulate it to gain momentum or fly without hacks, and even with hacks there are tons of problems with it.
Man, if only we could use HOLP to put things in sub-areas like Inside the Pyramid, maybe a chance to put a Goomba on one specific coordinate would make it possible to bounce onto it to reach the floor without an A press... I assume there's no way to delay these kind of things to appear in sub-areas??
@@WingcapmanYeah unfortunately we can’t really do anything involving the HOLP since there’s no object to hold in the first place. BUT your comment did remind me of this video on object unloading displacement via particles: ua-cam.com/video/tbGgSxas1jo/v-deo.html I’ve never really seen it demonstrated outside very niche situations, and I’m unaware of any objects inside the pyramid that can be broken, but it’s an idea that if possible could displace Mario onto a higher level, maybe bypassing the pole!
Are there any ways to manipulate the thwomps and roller enemies? It seems like you're always close enough to keep them in memory, and I doubt there's any loading shenanigans you could use with them
Can you explain, how rotating on a pole works. My theory: If you keep spinning in one direction, a variable will overflow. And maybe that is useful for getting off the pole.
Does anyone else wonder if other mario games had super mamrop 64 physics and movements but only the map were like the original mario games and the enemies would be copied from sm64 and unique enemies from those games would just be coded like we THINK they would have been like in sm64, how many A presses would be necessary?
The true pyramid puzzle
Indeed 😅! This is truly the best comment 🏆🥇!
I never noticed until this video that Mario's electrification effect is just his Metal Mario texture
Maybe just wait on the pole for one week and something new happens.
"Clinging to a pole for 4 years is perfectly fine"
@@vanderkarl3927 Clinging to a pole for 4 years crashes paper mario
@@vanderkarl3927 Tell that to Hank and Sanford who climbed down a ladder for almost a decade.
I love these parts of the ABC runs, it's like I'm watching a boardroom presentation on solving each obstacle
The dozen or so A press saves that just barely don't work really helps to appreciate all the ones that barely do work
I completely forgot the Amp even existed as an enemy. What a strange little one-off monster for all our hopes and dreams to ride on, haha.
They are actually used in many places throughout the game, but they usually just go around in little circles. These two are the only ones that folow Mario.
@@RipVanFish09I never even knew they chased Mario! I always ran past them.
Also never noticed the little 💢 thing in its design lol
Angry bois
@@RipVanFish09 You’re right! You’d think years of 16-star runs and long jumping into them over and over in the first Bowser stage would have lock them into my mind, but it seems I blanked those little guys out…
Man, this is an interesting puzzle. It feels like we’ve inched so close to a solution only to dead end! But I’m sure something new will develop…
The main antagonist of this game is not Bowser, but the climbable pole.
its so sad that will smith killed himself while working on iCarly ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::(
@@kiwi_2_official true!
2 freaking poles, to be exact.
Did not know that mario is invincible when dropping off poles
Only to amps.
There's Goombas in the pyramid, would it be possible to use them for extra jumps similar to BoB? Idk if it's doable without Bob ombs but figured I'd throw it out there
Pretty sure there is no way to clone inside the pyramid (or for any of the areas with remaining a presses for that matter)
The pyramid lacks grabbable objects, which makes it impossible to clone objects with current technology
Yeah, we were talking about causing a goomba to "jump" repeatedly by leaving and coming back before it reaches the ground, but I got my facts confused and caused some problems.
We can't get PU speed unless we BLJ on a grindel precisely, but assume we could. We can use the 10k glitch which reflects our speed repeatedly to rapidly run into a goomba then leave its activation radius, causing it to jump in midair. Getting hit loses all our speed unless we can get squished then pushed off a ledge by smth like a spindel if it were right next to the goomba. Anyway, too many of these requirements are just complete nonsense so idk, it doesn't seem good to me...
@@sm64guy28 in fact, every area with a grabbable object is already 0.5xA or 0xA, as long as you don't count grabbable objects that you have to press A to reach in BitFS
@@redpenguin111 true. Cloning is still as of today the biggest a press killer that ever happened in the ABC.
for abc comment lurkers, 0xA watch for rolling rocks is being heavily worked on rn
I think the craziest thing about how close we are is that the pyramid even has a second entrance that circumvents this problem, only to unfortunately have its own problems which (currently) require an A-press.
The worst part is that the DS version added a cork box at the base of this area. If that was in the original this would be trivial.
It would be funny if one of those giant moving blocks enemies had some minor rounding error that let it move out of place enough that you could catch a ride on it, but I think this is not how the game works
Unfortunately the game uses shorts for angles and not floats. So it's all done with integer maths. And the Grendel works by turning 180 degrees after it moves far enough from its home. And it only starts moving again after it completes the full rotation.
So it all seems pretty glitch free to me.
I just realized... why does the camera shake when the Thwomps and such stomp the ground? The Lakitu isn't touching the ground!
He's startled.
some creators comment on peoples posts, but pannen makes a complete video within a day discussing the question
I’m just spitballing here… I may have no idea what I’m talking about, but hear me out.
I seem to recall that, once you enter the pyramid, any time you die, you’ll restart the level from within the pyramid once you re-enter the wall. Is there any sort of trickery that you could do on ANOTHER level so that things start getting modified here? Alternately, MIPS the rabbit could be running around the outside of this level in the castle hall; can you set any clone values or anything with him before you re-enter the level?
I don’t really know how a lot of stuff here works. But usually, whenever I hit a roadblock on my work, I try to approach things from an entirely different angle and work my way back around to see if it helps. I hope that you’re able to find a solution soon, and I look forward to seeing the breakthrough when it happens!
Cloning is likely impossible because there are no grabbable objects inside the pyramid.
@@davishallMario is pretty tightly grabbing that pole.
it feels like the lower entrance strat has so much potential for some reason. i'm sure this A press is the next one to be saved
That or JRB 0xA.
@@landrypierce9942i think the ABC team is satisfied with JRB 0,5A and will focus more on stars like these
@@louisdemeaux6318 I’m just talking about easiest saves, not necessarily what they’ll focus on. Often after a star is reduced to 0.5xA, it is reduced quickly to 0xA. There are of course notable exceptions that have remained 0.5xA for quite a while.
This either gonna be solved tomorrow or in a few years
Well since it didn't get solved the next day I'll say weeks to a few years but I think it will be solved this year.
have you considered just pressing the A button but not telling anybody?
the amps would know
always watching
By finding a way to eliminate every witness, we can save the A press in the pyramid.
The whole point is that his A button is broken.
Hey! That’s illegal! 🚨
@@nethowarrior3294I read this in Bismuth’s voice lol
The description says it's Paper Mario 64, not Super Mario 64
Trying to get off a Pole Crashes Paper Mario
Getting shocked by an amp crashes Paper Mario.
This is a very exciting problem to have. It feels like we're on the cusp of something!
we've been beaten by a pole AGAIN
Poles truly are frustrating....
Neat video! Thanks for uploading!
i like how most remaining a presses are repeated/similar
2 ssl a presses in the pyramid
2 thi a presses in the cave
5 a presses in the top of the castle
(2 are the same but mirrored, 3 are the same)
2 a presses in the cloud level
nice pfp
you forgot the slide
and PSS box and JRB cave are much like each other
JRB cave isn't an A press anymore
What about bowser in the fire sea? That’s Virtual Console only but the full run has to be done on Japanese N64
And I assume skipping the pole via another route is even more impossible
Right now we don't even have another route.
@@natnew32technically, the other route is the original route by the top, but still an A press needed.
@@minirop And IIRC the top route just barely doesn't work by a margin of 7 units, we'd be able to get out of that elevator with a dive recover if the wall was 7 units shorter. But there's just nothing to work with up there.
@@BrettMKWis a slide kick bounce the same as a dive recover? I mean isn’t the bounce from that relative to how far Mario fell. Even still there wouldn’t be enough time to grab inside the ancient pyramid but maybe for pyramid puzzle?
@@charmandergamer1287 I double checked the video, the slide kick bounce (even with the platform moving downwards) misses by 31 units, so quite a bit worse than the dive recover which in itself is too short. But yes, even if it was high enough, it's still not trivial because of the time factor. You'd have to land on something that's as high as the top of the pole.
EDIT: Nevermind, the top of the pole height wouldn't even work for the pyramid star in this instance as the bottom route uses the platform (which is no longer there since we activated it) to get to the star. So yeah, time is definitely an issue but if it were possible it would likely work for the puzzle star.
Fun fact: in the DS version, dropping off a pole lets you ledge grab
This is some really neat observations I didn't know about any of this.
Can't you skip using the 100 coin star by using sliding speed? I mean, understandable that you cannot bring a goomba all the way up, but how about bringing it up 1 floor to skip the 100 coin star and make it useful elsewhere? Like raising a scuttlebug, but you raise a goomba, you do it for the pole before the 100 coin star. Seems less sketchy, but I mean, if goombas could be raised, JRB wouldn't have been such a deal for many years. I've read on a reply of a comment around here that bringing up a goomba doesn't seem viable, but that it could be possible
"Yeah, we were talking about causing a goomba to "jump" repeatedly by leaving and coming back before it reaches the ground, but I got my facts confused and caused some problems.
We can't get PU speed unless we BLJ on a grindel precisely, but assume we could. We can use the 10k glitch which reflects our speed repeatedly to rapidly run into a goomba then leave its activation radius, causing it to jump in midair. Getting hit loses all our speed unless we can get squished then pushed off a ledge by smth like a spindel if it were right next to the goomba. Anyway, too many of these requirements are just complete nonsense so idk, it doesn't seem good to me..."
Can't 2 amps push or displace you, even if you receive no knockback or damage?
In the future we laugh at this problem after the Infinite Levitation Glitch (ILG) was found in early 2024.
Just press L 💀
@@renakunisaki thats only on ultra 64 controllers which arent compatible with real console and the L button input isnt on emu because control is based off n64 instead of u64
An idea - Have we explored what would happen if we tried something with a handstand?
My only idea would be to mess around with the grindel/spindel on the lower levels and see if there are any janky things you can do with them. I haven't played mario 64 in many years so I might be wrong about this, but I seem to recall that if you stand on top of the grindel on the first floor, he jumps high enough to squish mario a little bit between him and the ceiling above. Even if that is true, I doubt it would prove useful in anyway but you never know.
Since poles seem to be a reoccurring theme in the remaining A presses in both this and BitFS, would it be an idea to do a deeper dive in what can and can't make Mario drop off a pole, and what sort of height and momentum each of those options provide.
Yeah, if only someone made a video about that, and we happened to be commenting on it at this very moment. Alas...
@@Dziaji Thanks for the snarky response, but I was talking about a more general video that tested all kinds of interactions. This video is only about Amps.
@@Aspharon you are most welcome, good sir. I don't think there is much to dive into. Knock-back off poles just knocks you to the bottom, and there doesn't seem to be anything that helps get lateral movement off a pole besides A.
List of ways to get off a pole:
- heave ho
- explosion
- fire
- goomba
- scuttlebug
other options:
- bypass the pole entirely
- just press A :))
@@Splax77 theres also dropping off but it doesnt give enough momentum here to bypass an a press
So I'm assuming you can't update the homes of Amps like Scuttlebugs, or at least in any meaningful way? Or anything else in the pyramid, for that matter?
This pole and the one in BITFS are the only unconquered poles left in the ABC
I don't remember, do you need a preset HOLP to get into the lower entrance of the pyramid, or in some other spot inside the pyramid? If not, is it possible to clone anything useful and place it at the top of the pole?
Can't clone here
As a kid I swear these things followed me all the way just to fuck with me. ;_;
Disappointing Observations is depressing when it doesn't involve BitFS
A bit of a stretch, but is there something you could do with the goomba in this map? Like somehow getting it to hit Mario on the pole with enough knockback to make it to the next floor?
To get it up that high you'd probably need to clone it, but the pyramid sadly has no grabbable objects to make this feasible
@@defacubethere's no chuckya in the pyramid, or outside of it
@@defacubechuckya nuts into a woodchipper
The Spindel very briefly forms Pedro spots with the ground in certain areas according to some testing I just did. Not sure how useful they would prove...
generally pedro spots aren't that useful in ABC if a star is already down to 1 A press. The main use case for them is to build up enough speed that one jump clears what would normally require several jumps
So you're saying there's a chance?
Can't the amp push you or displace you, even if it doesn't stun you? If you have 20 goombas or amps pushing you around when you can't receive damage or knockback, can they push you around like walls or move you?
Are u sure using the amps is the only option?
These two a presses seem to me to be the most probable to be solvable. The pyramid is a mess. Like TTC, there is so much to work with.
There is MUCH more to work with in TTC (heaveho, several moving objects, fire spitters, and most importantly bob-ombs to clone with). The Pyramid really doesnt have much at all (a couple goombas at the bottom, a couple thwomps at the bottom, a warp zone, and amps). You can't clone, build hyperspeed, manipulate any enemies into helping you (aside from amps (((POSSIBLY, BUT PROBABLY NOT)))).
I know certain enemies can push Mario around when he's in an invincible state, but I don't know which ones do or don't. It's unlikely, but just for the sake of covering all bases: Does the Amp have collision with Mario? If so, can the Amp push Mario around if he's in an invincible state? If so, then we might be able to cross one of the marks off by completely skipping the ledge grab altogether and just having it push us onto or into the floor.
If not, then is there anything else you can bring up there? or is it time to look at other niche mechanics in the pyramid such as the climbable roof or the quicksand?
the pharaohs curse: an a press
It looked like you still collided with the amp even with your invincibility. He's still tangible... Good luck
i don't suppose there's any bizarre floating point error nonsense with any object in the room, similar to the floor in one of the bowser levels, which would cause an element/entity to wander from its intended location? Such... lovely sounds to listen to hear for days on end to allow floating point error accumulation if so :D.
no odd glitches that allow Mario to grab things he normally couldn't (due to having a collision box bigger than a grab radius) by clipping into them at-speed?
iirc, the rising floor in the bowser level (BitFS?) is emulator-onky, since the emulator rounds numbers using a ceiling function. The n64 version does not, which is why the rising floor is emulator-specific, and hasn't saved any a presses since the discovery and implementation of spawning displacement, a Japanese N64-only glitch.
Maybe on emulator there's a tiny chance something could happen, but it wouldn't save any A presses I think since it wouldn't be saved in the version that has the fewest A presses.
I wonder if there's any merit TASing a no-teleporter ABC run of the bottom strategy, to get a better feel for the rest of the objects in the level
Without that teleporter there’s yet another pole that needs to be climbed up somehow
Definitely some new and interesting ideas to work with here! I'm excited to see if this leads to any new developments.
babe wake up. uncommentatedpannen video just got released
So I'm wondering, that Spindel on the bottom that rolls around you can see in the last part of the video, would it be possible to apply PU rotational displacement on him? Im sure there's no way to get hyperspeed inside the pyramid, but if it were possible, would landing on him as he's rolling transmit Mario upward the same way you can do for other rotating platforms?
Yes, but getting PU speed in the Pyramid seems unlikely. There's a few options (a pedro spot, which requires A to get out of. And a hyperspeed jumpkicking spot that iirc you dont get much speed out of) but these options are at the very bottom of the Pyramid and that spindel is almost at the top.. and scaling the Pyramid with hyperspeed from bottom to top is undoubtedly impossible (bad geometry, also scaling requires a sdc which would kill all speed).
Why does Mario have invincibility frames when dropping off of the pole here, but not when dropping into the fire clone on Bowser in the Fire Sea?
Stomping on an enemy is fundamentally different from getting hit by it
Do the parallel universes also travel "up" so to speak? Or vertical?
I remember the grid you used to explain these and I also remember the fish that swims forever all the way into other universes. Both of those lead me to envision the PUs as somthing that exists beyond horizons but if Mario or the fish were to travel indefinitely skywards are there PUs in that direction as well?
I'm not sure if that's relevant to solving the pyramid. The Pole has me thinking of up and down.
yea they do! its used in the one key tas and there usualy called vpus however im pretty sure u can only stay in them for lik a frame or sumthing lik that
Determining Mario's floor is done with a signed 16 bit integer, but actual floor height is still done via float. This makes VPUs very strange, and occasionally useful:
Positive VPU - Everything above y=20000 is ceiling, so you can't move. Since there's no floor, you continually fall until you're below where the floor gets detected, which puts you out of bounds and kills you.
Negative VPU - If you negative jump with enough backwards speed to go to a negative VPU it will detect the floor, compare your height to the floor height, and determine that you should land since you're lower than the floor. This snaps you to the floor height of the main level, meaning you spent no time in the VPU. If you use rotational displacement via a moving platform, you get upwarped to the default water level of -11000. This is out of bounds in every level, and you instantly die.
praying that the Grindel amd Spindel will turn out to have some undiscovered property that will solve this
i assume that if the amp was placed in the spot where it's first possible to take damage after dropping with Z, it'd be too low to let you ledge grab?
mario is immune to amps while on the pole and while dropping from it. so amps are not the solution most likely.
Instead of trying to eliminate the A press entirely, is it possible to reduce it to half? I don't know if just releasing the A button lets you jump off a pole or not, but if it does then that's better than nothing.
If that was possible it would've been done already
this channel has the best useless information ever.
i used the info to beat SM64 in 13 a presses first try so its clearly useful for that
Couldn't their be some other way to get up their without the pole? Is there any possible way to get up ther without the pole or am i just speaking nonsensical delusions
Amps are looking like the biggest lead (and have been for years and years and years), there's really nothing else in the Pyramid that looks even slightly helpful. The only other option that could produce something (but probably wouldnt) is speed (where you would use PU rotational displacement or something similar to ETitV), which I think can be built for a little bit but requires an A press to get into the spot (or out, bc iirc it's a pedro spot), and even if it didn't then it would require A presses to get use out of that speed because nothing towards the top of the Pyramid can be used to build speed, only maybe 1 or 2 things at the very bottom (which would then make scaling the Pyramid impossible bc you have too much speed).
Is there any way to build up speed outside of the pyramid and conserve it through the transition to the interior? I believe you can conserve speed through certain transitions, although I think those require crouching on the first frame in the new area, which wouldn't work in the pyramid since both transitions start you in midair. Still, figured I'd float the idea since it could be useful if possible.
How does the Amp teleport at 0:11?
Considering the JRB skip, I wonder if the answer lies somewhere else other than the enemies.
An Amp is an Amp.
You can't say it's only 500 milliamps.
A part of me wonders if there's something completely unrelated to the problem that's been overlooked.
Like maybe getting squished by the rolling thwomp while ledge grabbing at the same frame could cause the ledge grab coordinates to move to a higher part of the level (very very unlikely but I thought it sounded cool).
Could you use the rolly thing like you did with the pendulum in TTC with the gp chain?
are any speed/velocity values conserved when entering the pyramid? I'm guessing no but just thought I'd ask. As for the pole its the BitFS problem but without anything grabable so even worse? No way to do any VSC for something as high as the pole. Does anything make mario slide in the pyramid?
it's impossible to conserve speed through loading zones
and there are no grabbable objects inside the pyramid
Got a new idea: if Mario does nothing for a while, he changes his position for sleeping. And that level has quicksand.
Idea: Place yourself near deadly quicksand and wait for Mario to sleep into that quicksand. And than something happen that you must figure out.
For real: This probably does nothing.
For real: The model of mario doesn't actually move when he falls asleep, but even if it did, it would either do nothing or kil mario
For extra real: If he slept near quicksand, he would probably soil his pants and catch a sunburn
Another pole. The final boss and pinnacle of this challenge.
Do the walls of the pyramid have any interesting properties?
Using a hacked position, is it possible to get past the pole using a star dance clip?
I understand that one was already used earlier in the pyramid climb, but if it works on this specific spot it could potentially mean you would have to get either past this pole OR the large platform lower down.
Even if getting past the platform on the lower floor is completely impossible without a SDC it would still be interesting to see.
the idea would hold more weight if it were possible to get a star to actually spawn near the pole, but there aren't any coins anywhere near it
So close yet so far
*Peter Rabbit:* (singing) So neeear, and yet... so faaar...
Knowing how broken this game is, I'm surprised there's no workaround for poles in general. Maybe something like saving up Mario's momentum before he drops off the pole?
VSC onto the pole method unknown afaik
I was horrified to discover that amps have faces.
Seems the obvious solution is to store some speed while on the pole. I suppose there’s no way to do that? Sorry for the potential dumb comment.
There are a few ways to get hyperspeed in the pyramid (a pedro spot and a hsjk spot) both of which dont build great speed iirc, and the 1st requires an A press. Not to mention, but both are at the bottom of the Pyramid, and scaling the Pyramid with hyperspeed is 100% not going to happen (bad geometry and literally requires a sdc which would kill all speed).
Maybe explore the Eyegore boss. Maybe it can be used to gain momentum or flight, or clip through the walls.
Eyerok*
Manipulating the eyerok boss was considered before, but nobody has ever been able to manipulate it to gain momentum or fly without hacks, and even with hacks there are tons of problems with it.
the answer is probably yes, but is it the same result falling down if mario is doing a handstand at the top of the pole?
yes
What if you leave the console (Wii VC) on for 69 days?
the wii vc version is not useful due to its lack of spawning displacement used to save 3 other a presses in TTC
We've been trying to save these 2 A presses, but this trick doesn't work without hacks.
Thx for trying out my idea :)
Man, if only we could use HOLP to put things in sub-areas like Inside the Pyramid, maybe a chance to put a Goomba on one specific coordinate would make it possible to bounce onto it to reach the floor without an A press...
I assume there's no way to delay these kind of things to appear in sub-areas??
There are no grabbable objects inside the pyramid.
@@Splax77 ... Ah yeah, there's that too. Probably spawning objects like the objects from boxes won't do any good either. Probably. Most likely... xD
@@WingcapmanYeah unfortunately we can’t really do anything involving the HOLP since there’s no object to hold in the first place. BUT your comment did remind me of this video on object unloading displacement via particles: ua-cam.com/video/tbGgSxas1jo/v-deo.html
I’ve never really seen it demonstrated outside very niche situations, and I’m unaware of any objects inside the pyramid that can be broken, but it’s an idea that if possible could displace Mario onto a higher level, maybe bypassing the pole!
I wonder if there could exist a solution without using the pesky pole...
Are there any ways to manipulate the thwomps and roller enemies? It seems like you're always close enough to keep them in memory, and I doubt there's any loading shenanigans you could use with them
their actions are very basic, so probably not.
I love the effort! We will find a way!
I can see video like this all the day
my favorite paper mario video
this gonna be a tough one
Can you explain, how rotating on a pole works. My theory: If you keep spinning in one direction, a variable will overflow. And maybe that is useful for getting off the pole.
nah, pannen did a quite extensive video on angles, nothing will overflow
@@ducbadatcs 🔫
I hate these poles
Does anyone else wonder if other mario games had super mamrop 64 physics and movements but only the map were like the original mario games and the enemies would be copied from sm64 and unique enemies from those games would just be coded like we THINK they would have been like in sm64, how many A presses would be necessary?
Easily the most forgettable enemy type in the game.
Here definitely, but in romhacks (those with custom content, as opposed to cheats), those amps are used to make some nasty obstacles.
MY boy
73th comment
UGH!
Aww shit
what about handstand on the pole?
same result
what if you just used an xbox controller and pressed b
1:47: Amp.exe performed an illegal operation. Now rebooting...
What if we had a bob omb explosion so that it would know Mario off the pole? Maybe we could have this bob omb come from a holp?
There are no bob ombs inside the pyramid
And we cannot bring any bob-ombs into the pyramid either
If we could though? Not saying it'll ever happen but could it work if we could
@@thefutureismeaninglessthep7364yeah it would work, but like mentioned, there is literally no way to get that explosion.
@@RipVanFish09 ik I was just curious
invincibility when mario dropping off poles made this require an A press?
I found out that you can converse vertical speed if you grab a pole.
How? This sounds interesting
@@realconquerorchen1609I used a moon jump code to jump and climb the pole, climb up, then press Z. Mario moves upwards a little.
how do we get that speed so it's useful though
@@kiwi_2_official Unfortunately, I haven't found a way to do that.
@@HY_user-cw4fw7rb2q unbortunately