Card Destruction only needs at least 1 player to be able to discard and draw. If it is the only card in your hand, you can still activate it as long as your opponent has at least 1 card in their hand. Similarly, if your opponent’s hand is empty, you need at least 1 other card in order to active it.
Yea I was about to say the same thing. It's been years since I've ever played the card (I only play goat format and 2006 but this card is hella bad during those times) but I believe that just one player needs to have a card for it to resolve. It neither player would have cards then it cannot resolve and thus, cannot activate.
It's also why the card destruction ftks work, cause on almost all, if not all, you card destruction while having no cards on your hand except card des, you also have no deck and your opponent's hand is over their remaining deck, so you can just card des, you dont draw cards and they cant draw enough and lose by overdecking
I see we didn't want to bring Rarran to the realm of Pendulum monsters yet. I get it, but I REALLY hope that the rating videos you do with him, CGB, LSV, whoever comes next for pendulums ends up being the video where people are like "oh, I get it. Stupid, but I get it."
Rarran: "Maybe like draw 3 but banish the last card you draw, you'd probably take the risk of banishing something" The playerbase about the actual card that does that: "Only a quarter of my deck? You got it. Want me to throw in my firstborn?"
Has something happened to him? I only watch these “TCG player rates cards” videos when they show up on my recommended & I’ve been watching the old progression series. Hope he’s doing alright.
11:06 Rarran saying "this card became good because an archetype supported it" and then following that up with saying that it probably wouldn't see play in Hearthstone is crazy. Cataclysm had to get changed so that it no longer discards your entire hand simply because discard warlock got enough support. Discard warlock would play the shit out of card destruction, and if it costed anything less than like 6 mana, it would be a tier 0 deck.
Having a combo card that does what both imp + cata/library did in terms of hand discard would be absolutely bonkers. Its literally an unprintable card with the current precedent set, you simply cannot give discard warlock access to that. Its too much.
I think one thing cimoo forgot to mention about Pot of Avarice is that if you recycle extra deck monsters your deck doesn't lose consistency when drawing
Random Suggestion; Rarrans had videos where he gets creators to "rank" Hearthstone cards from a specific type. Try doing the same with all the "Pot" cards that came after Pot of Greed and see if people can figure out which ones are the strongest.
Well some of them are context dependent depending on the deck. Some decks, you don't want to banish random cards from your ED for Extrav. Lab or Eldlich, it's just Pot of Greed. Some don't mind banishing 10 as long as you can combo off for Desires (or if they benefit from having banished cards). Virtual World can, with Nyannyan, recover facedown banished cards Etc, etc
19:20 He actually makes a pretty great point, this was especially in contention with Upstart Goblin in that you could argue that decks are already so consistent that they would prefer to see handtraps to interact on the opponent's turn instead of effectively a blank card. Now unlike Upstart Goblin, Pot of Greed and Graceful Charity are a different subject just because they're so egregious in card advantage why wouldn't you run them. But it is interesting that excessive consistency CAN end up being a hinderance and is usually taken into consideration in deck building.
7:05 I think Cimo mistook Card Destruction ruling with Hand Destruction's. Card Destruction says "as many as possible" whilst Hand Destruction requires both players to discard exactly 2 cards
I don't think so, I think he just misremembered, because Card Destruction DOES need at least ONE player to have a card in hand, he just thought it was both players.
I've just recently discovered this series and binged it. I absolutely loved the guests, the knowledge of different TCG's being exchanged and the length of the episodes 🫶 Keep it up!
upstart is at 3 and nobody but striker plays it because it does nothing on turn 0. drawing an upstart rather than a handtrap will more often than not lose you the game.
A few decks run it but. You usually have to look at it as "engine" instead of ur non-engine staples. White forest has also been running it lately but still maintains high hand trap ratios
@@KeshavKrishnan If the deck is a combo deck, which decks light on handtraps basically always are, then it is just true that there will be other draws and searches. The exception is a trap deck, but trap decks avoid spells in general because of trap theory, playing them very sparingly. If you don't play handtraps, and you're not being punished for drawing cards, cycling is just good.
41:20 "If this card was still at 3 copies people would play it at three". It has actually been at 3 copies since the start of 2024 and it's rarely played. With the already insane consistency of modern decks and abundance of good generics, there's no need to play a card that's just a +0 when you could instead just put handtraps or boardbreakers in that slot instead, which you would much rather draw than upstart. The only time I remember a +0 draw being ran in a recent meta deck was a while ago in the OCG where Snake-eyes played 3 Chicken Game after limits to WANTED and Ash, which is because it also serves as a face-up card to send with Diabellstar after it's drawn you a card, technically making it a +1 instead of a +0. The fact that 3x Upstart is no longer a thing really shows how deckbuilding in Yugioh has changed. The main goal of free-slots in decks went from "more cards to find key pieces to your combo" to "more cards to stop your opponent from doing their combo".
Another factor is that a lot of decks now really don't care about sticking to 40 cards because of the combination of already very high consistency along with garnets that become worse in smaller decks. And obviously if you're already going over 40 then upstart becomes pointless (although there are still a couple exceptions of course).
@7:00 *Card Destruction can be used so long as at least one player has a card in hand.* If _both_ players have zero cards in hand (or no cards other than _that_ copy of Card Destruction in the case of the person playing it from hand), *then* Card Destruction cannot legally be used. Under Konami (I don't recall it from the Upper Deck days), you also _cannot_ use Card Destruction if you have fewer cards left in your deck than you have in your hand. All of this is - or at least _was_ - quite relevant given the combo of Card Destruction and Serial Spell. Serial Spell *does* require you have a card in hand to discard for its cost, but I'm talking about how - if your hand size exceeded your remaining deck size - you wouldn't be able to play Card Destruction, even if you planned on chaining Serial Spell to it and thus emptying out your hand.
25:40 So as terrible as Yamata was the VAST majority of it's life, it did have one moment. It was briefly teched in Dragon Ruler as a SOMETIMES card as they full well legitimately could field the 2 tributes needed to pop it onto the board. It gets better because Yamata is a fire dragon, and thus fully valid for both of Blaster's effects, and a level 7 so it already slots in with all their support. Yamata would often be supplanted in it's spot by Obelisk the Tormentor, as Obelisk was very difficult to out in the mirror outside of another Obelisk, but it wasn't unreasonable to see Yamata come down itself and just dunk some people off the earth by drawing 3-5 cards.
If I recall Morphing Jar was apart of the initial ban wave. Actually why I quit early on. 500 bucks thrown away felt really bad. I use to play my hand finish with Card Destruction then flip Morphing Jar protected by a trap hole since back then everyone was playing stuff like Gemini or another 1900 power card and watch my opponent cry as they discarded their hand twice. It was a simpler time back then.
Others have mentioned, but you can activate Card Destruction in any circumstance where it would affect the game on resolution. By that, the only case where it can't activate is if you *and* your opponent have no cards in hand, because that's the only case where it would do nothing.
Damn, kinda wish Cimooooo had pulled out Ursarctic Radiation but I guess evaluating that is kinda a wash without knowing how god awful my space bears are.
I could be wrong; but I think the difference between Pot of Avarice and The Beginning of the End is that Pot of Avarice is more susceptible to counter play due to the fact that it requires you to target the cards (and if one is removed it becomes invalid even if you still meet the minimal count); whereas Beginning of the End can only be countered if you are put below the minimal requirement (i.e. if you still have 7 or more cards after your opponent removes one, you can still remove 5 of the remaining since it doesn't specify that they're being targeted).
One other thing to mention, in regards to Beginning of the End, is that the draw 3 rarely builds towards something. If you're committed to dumping 15 monsters, there's very little else you can really do besides, I guess, draw into traps---which your opponent may have answers to. And, if you've spent all those monsters on extra deck plays, then chances are you're already setup and there's very little that you can actually _do_ with those draws that your board can't already do. (There's little point in drawing removal/negate/whatever cards if your big boss monsters are doing that anyway.)
The costs for it are also quite high. 7+ DARK monsters in grave is a bit too high for a deck to hit turn one unless it's specifically going for mass graveyard shenans (in which case, BotE works against by removing those resources from the grave), and banishing the monsters essentially makes them unrecyclable compared to Avarice's shuffling back into the deck. It just doesn't really have a viable niche.
Whats weird with card destruction and Morphing jar from a HS perspective is the disruption you can do to your opponent with these cards, especially if your playing a warlock card destruction deck. because your basically going positive with your cards (kind of like dark world in yugioh) wile making your opponent hate you for getting rid of potential combo cards as unlike yugioh, the graveyard is not a thing and the cards discarded by hand are gone basically forever. these kinds of cards in HS would be considered some of the most toxic cards in the game especially in wild.
One thing that Cimo didn't mention about Pot of Avarice is, it doesn't specify the monsters need to be Main Deck monsters. This was a big part of its strength, putting back Extra Deck monsters (most of which you'd only run at 1 copy) so you could bring them out again if you had the material, letting you either redo your deck's main combos or just have more options to deal with the board. Shuffling back Extra Deck monsters also means you wouldn't hurt the consistency of your Main Deck and makes it far easier to meet the 5 monster requirement than just Main Deck monsters would've.
kinda unrelated but toon masked sorc has a nifty combo in Performage Toon rank 4, basically use Trapeze Magician on Mask Sorc or Gemini Elf (both level 4 spellcasters btw) to +2 yourself or -2 the opponent. Toon Kingdom protects the toon monster from Trapeze's destruction so you don't lose material, gives you some protection from damage so leaving a weak monster like sorc in attack becomes less of an issue.
Minute 19: he has an amazing point yes the good decks would be more consistent but consistency isnt linear. Thats why its not optimal to run 18 starters for example. So those meta decks already have around 90% consistency and would only slightly increase in consistency while worse decks would have a higher jump. Making it probably more beneficial for inconsistent roge decks. Thats why cards like pot of prosperety are way more impactful in worse strategies then in top meta decks. So yes while annoying I do belive pot of greed isnt close as unhealthy to the game as commonly discussed. GC has to stay banned thougj as it enables combos and set up
Though I see the argument you're trying to make, and this is why modern deck don't run upstart goblin anymore (the small upside in consistency isn't worth the potential brick going second), you're missing 2 way more important factors. - First off, these cards are absolutely toxic as they make the game more affected by the coin flip and luck dependant in general as opening pot of greed or graceful charity over not opening them is a huge power swing, even when going second. They are in some ways even less balanced than Maxx C, for providing important card advantage but by favoring player 1 even more. And yes, even if they were to always trade 1 for 1 with an ash, it's an upside. - Second, even though the consistency increase they provide would be more important to less consistent, more degenerate strategies. It's important to remember these meta decks are already so consistent that they can afford to run ~40% if not sometimes ~60% staples, hand traps, etc. So, despite not really improving the combos they would make, these cards would provide more answers and counters to their opponent's strategy. Thus, providing value potentially even higher than the consistency gain to other decks. This is why these cards should never be unbanned and why almost all pot restrains are atleast being limited and even sometimes banned to this day.
I'd love to see Rarran's thoughts on three of my favorite meme-y cards: Cursed Seal of the Forbidden Spell, Mystical Refpanel and Ordeal of a Traveller.
Masked sorc is a good card in critter. I play one copy in Muka Muka Turbo. but in that format its all about setting monsters and keepig your opponent guessing. set witch, set la jinn, set this guy, set soldier of stone. just keep them guessing until you can build up for a gameshot with last will cannon soldier raigeki and reborn or whatever else needed to go for game.
First time watching this series and it was way more enjoyable than I thought it might be. I love seeing his thought process evolving with more knowledge. Especially to the point where he theory crafted his own card
The good thing about Trap Draw cards in older yugioh is that they can bait your opponent's destruction effects. They target to destroy and you just chain so you kind of plus one by making them waste a card. Was always a great feeling when you chain your Jar of Greed to your opponent's MST that was targeting it. It's funny that Cimo says this tactic is only just now becoming popular in retro formats because I did that all the time when I was a kid.
I remember the first time I built a deck that used 3 Pot of Avarice, it got hit just next format, along with several other cards in that deck. It used Fish monsters to get synchro material to draw with Librarian and my first turn ended ten minutes later with two Shooting Quasar Dragon and all pieces of Exodia in hand.
1:03:53 reminds me a lot about desires but kinda better, it would be more balanced if it banishes facedown a random card in your hand and it would totally see play without being more broken than necessary, it would end up at 1 tho.
In the 5D era video games, I liked running 3 jars and 3 legacies in a deck built for level 8 synchros. Probably not that great objectively, but it was fun to be able to target one of those with Scrap Dragon and then chain it to draw before the double pop. Mostly just wanted having the possibility of the MST dream but with a little something else to help justify it.
You can't activate a card where the conditions can't be met at all. There has to be at least one card that it can discard even with the "as possible" stipulation.
The Beginning of the End doesn't target the cards it removes so the only way for your opponent to disrupt it is to reduce the number of dark monsters in the graveyard below 5. With Pot of Avarice if any of the targeted cards leaves the graveyard the effect can't resolve.
Card Destruction fun story: i was playing treasure Panda Exodia, my opponent went first, just set a card, and passed. I have no idea what he was playing. He hit me with Maxx C at the start of my turn. I had Treasure Panda in my starting hand, with a bunch of spells as draw cards/panda fodder fodder And Card Destruction was in my deck. My opponent banished one of my exodia pieces from my graveyard using his set Called by The Grave, and probably turned his toggles off. I played through most of my deck, extra deck included (there are quite a few extra deck monsters that are good for card draws in Treasure Panda exodia, let's take Formula Synchron, that level 3 cyberse synchro, corall dragon, or ravenous crocodragon as examples. But link spider, link 2 dark/earch charmers, seleene, accesscode could go into a neat combo if your opponent hits you with a dark/earch handtrap, with simply 2 normal monsters in hand, like 2 exodia limbs. The rest were just some nice beatsticks, like Baronne, Satellite Warrior, Stardust Charge Warrior, T.G. Hyper Librarian, etc.) Point is, my opponent Maxx C-d me, made sure I can't get to Exodia, and what I'd assume is he turned off his toggles. Because he had lover 25 cards in his hand by the time my combo finished, and I basically went through my whole deck. Than I hit him with card destruction, with my own hand almost empty. Deck Out victory. One of the 3 win cons of that deck. The Baronne/Accesscode combos are nice too, but generally Exodia himself is the main wincon.
That "Pot of banish" Rarran came up with seems like the perfect addition to a Thunder Dragon deck, it's like if Gold Sarc and Allure of Darkness had a baby :p
16:21 Morphin Jar would be insane in Hearthstone. Imagine activating all the discard synergies, while at the same time ruining your opponent's game plan
Beginning of the End is different from Pot of Avarice in that The beginning of the end does not target those 5 dark monsters so you don't have to select which ones first so if your opponent removes one it will still resolve. The 7 or more is an activation condition and if your opponent removes one to make you only have 6 it won't matter because the required condition was already met upon activation. The only problem you will run into is if your opponent makes you have less than 5 Dark monsters, then the card would not be able to resolve.
To be honest, I think Rarran is on to something. I think the consistency improvement to decent but not good enough decks would be much greater than it would be to already ultra consistent decks. Playing Master Duel, I've never seen a Centurion, Snake Eyes, Yubel, or a Voiceless player brick...EVER.
Funny thing semi-related to Morphing Jar. Because Jar would be very slow, and the Anime wanted these very back-and-forth games of cards constantly being played and more than 1 card per turn, the Anime created a spell card Coins From Heaven to just have both players draw back up to 6 cards in hand. Like other anime cards, it got printed in the physical game as total garbage because it's obviously insanely broken. But it's just kind of cool to think of how much fun a mutual hand refill would be in a very slow version of Yugioh.
honestly I forgot about beginning of the end and it made me curious to see how well it'd work in blackwing or raidraptors (maybe even branded but ehhh). might have to do some testing
I would argue that if you have a deck that has an insane ceiling but rarely gets to said ceiling then unbanning pot of greed and graceful might allow them to shake the meta. I can't think of any deck off the top of my head this would work with, but i do know that it would affect hyper consistent decks alot less than inconsistent ones.
Holy crap the Maliss archetype thats out now could use Beginning of the End as a free reset plus 3 cards, obviously super situational to have an empty board and live but if your opponent manages to whipe your board of links this card could effectively give you back all of the Maliss monsters and draw 3
Fun fact about graceful charity: Chinese ygo player hosted competition with no ban list before, and obviously we know the best deck is that deck, but here comes the funniest thing, graceful charity are in the deck while pot of greed aren't because "Card is not efficient enough"
In the great Pot of Greed vs. Graceful Charity debate, I personally think that Graceful Charity wins because the floor and ceiling of Pot of Greed's power is a +1. The floor of Graceful Charity is a 3-for-3, but the ceiling is much, much higher than a +1.
To answer rarrans question about what would happen if graceful and PoG where at 3 right now, I don't agree with Cimo that nothing would change. Apart from droll being a must main I think either sky striker, dark world or purrely would rush to the top of tier 1. I think of all the meta decks only ryzeal (which isn't even out) would significantly improve with 3 pots. Purrely with 6 free draw spells and gy setup would be crazy, you guys have no idea. First you get to draw street almost every hand so you instantly invalidate half the hand traps your opponent has. Your deck can easily get to double noir with enough spells in rotation and your engine is pretty good going second so you can cut on the hand traps for more pots. I'd definitely try purrely first if they came back tomorrow.
Only got to card destruction thus far and Rarran both didn’t mention the cards shuffle into the deck and secondly the Sunken City version of Finley that puts your hand in order on the bottom of the deck and you draw as many as you placed in the deck for a 1 mana 1/3 legendary minion.
I had a Dark World deck anti-Maxx C me because of card destruction. I tossed it early cause I didn't know what he was playing, forced me to draw half my deck and then played that to force draw the other half while he was empty handed.
Pro Tip = Card Destruction + Serial Spell = GG.... I used to do this to people, it was great times... -Serial Spell copies card Destruction however it has the cost to discard your hand, doing so means the opponent will discard their hand twice. You will discard and draw nothing. Random Tip: Card Destruction triggers Dark Worlds...
I'm kind of with Rarran on Graceful Charity (not so much Pot of Greed) actually changing the top decks. Namely, that more powerful decks held back by banlist limitations to their consistency - namely Tearlaments - become disproportionately better. I think, if you introduced 3x Graceful Charity into the format and no other changes, Tearlament at least starts consistently topping again.
You know, that was the first time I've seeing Bokoichi somehow, and I thought the editor, edited in a sad cat at the end of it lol. After looking it up, that is indeed how it looks though.
*Card Destruction was a deck staple in early Yu-Gi-Oh.* I mean _early_ early Yu-Gi-Oh, maybe just the first six months to (upwards of) two years. Remember, just because you could reclaim Raigeki from your Graveyard with Magician of Faith *didn't* mean it was okay for it to be tossed to draw a single card. Speaking of Flip Effect Monsters like MoF, there wasn't an easy or effective way to revive them facedown from the Graveyard (or face-up then flip them back down) back then. This was the time when you just had *one copy* of Monster Reborn for revival purposes, so even Summoned Skull hitting your discard pile off of Card Destruction was iffy. I _think_ (hey, it's been over 20 years) there was a period where Card Destruction saw less play in extended the early days (first five years?), but then there's be another combo that made it return to - if not staple status - commonly-played-card status. *Think of it this way:* Graceful Charity releases, now you're running three of it in your deck - *Oh wait!* - now GC is down to one per deck so Card Destruction returns to fill a slot. Oh, and along would come Call of the Haunted and Premature Burial to help Monster Reborn...
Card destruction just has way to much use now especially for tear or you could even do a lil funny and go rogue with shaddoll. Main point is you basically go +8 with any graveyard deck turn 1 if it goes through.
Theoretically I could see the meta changing if pot and graceful were legal if the power level of the less consistant decks was high enough, the main issues are games 2 and 3 imo, if graceful charity was at 3 decks like dark world, fabled and infernity would be a lot better than they currently are but the best endboard they could theoretically put up wouldn't be that much better, maybe they'd win more games but they still wouldn't be ble to compete in a best of 3
Card Destruction only needs at least 1 player to be able to discard and draw. If it is the only card in your hand, you can still activate it as long as your opponent has at least 1 card in their hand. Similarly, if your opponent’s hand is empty, you need at least 1 other card in order to active it.
Nice! Someone said it before me.
i think he confused it with hand destruction.
where both have to exactly discard 2.
Yea I was about to say the same thing. It's been years since I've ever played the card (I only play goat format and 2006 but this card is hella bad during those times) but I believe that just one player needs to have a card for it to resolve. It neither player would have cards then it cannot resolve and thus, cannot activate.
as far as I know this is the only card that works like this, purely because konami said so
It's also why the card destruction ftks work, cause on almost all, if not all, you card destruction while having no cards on your hand except card des, you also have no deck and your opponent's hand is over their remaining deck, so you can just card des, you dont draw cards and they cant draw enough and lose by overdecking
I see we didn't want to bring Rarran to the realm of Pendulum monsters yet. I get it, but I REALLY hope that the rating videos you do with him, CGB, LSV, whoever comes next for pendulums ends up being the video where people are like "oh, I get it. Stupid, but I get it."
What the flying fudd rucker is a pendulum summon ?!?!😂😂😂
@@918_xDxit’s when Konami decided it was okay to write 2 paragraphs of text on a card.
2121
Pendulum and Link are just... naaaaaaaaaah.
@@Bluejay575ain't this the truth made reading Last Turn look like a small paragraph compare to some pendulums cards.
Rarran: "Maybe like draw 3 but banish the last card you draw, you'd probably take the risk of banishing something"
The playerbase about the actual card that does that: "Only a quarter of my deck? You got it. Want me to throw in my firstborn?"
It's just a pot of greed, but you can't play it with exodia unless you like gambling (people will still play this with exodia)
Good old pot of "neg 9"
You know the funniest part. I believe Steve showed Rarran Pot of Desires on Rarran's channel for a video
Glad Cimo has some prerecorded videos. I love your channel. Hope you feel better.
Me too
Has something happened to him? I only watch these “TCG player rates cards” videos when they show up on my recommended & I’ve been watching the old progression series. Hope he’s doing alright.
@@HeavensOfMetal he had some major surgery recently, he posted a whole video explaining the situation
@@HeavensOfMetal homie has Ulcerative Colitis iirc
11:06 Rarran saying "this card became good because an archetype supported it" and then following that up with saying that it probably wouldn't see play in Hearthstone is crazy. Cataclysm had to get changed so that it no longer discards your entire hand simply because discard warlock got enough support. Discard warlock would play the shit out of card destruction, and if it costed anything less than like 6 mana, it would be a tier 0 deck.
Having a combo card that does what both imp + cata/library did in terms of hand discard would be absolutely bonkers. Its literally an unprintable card with the current precedent set, you simply cannot give discard warlock access to that. Its too much.
I think one thing cimoo forgot to mention about Pot of Avarice is that if you recycle extra deck monsters your deck doesn't lose consistency when drawing
Cimo showing Rarran a Pendulum Monster would be the equivalent of asking a caveman to build a GPU
Random Suggestion; Rarrans had videos where he gets creators to "rank" Hearthstone cards from a specific type. Try doing the same with all the "Pot" cards that came after Pot of Greed and see if people can figure out which ones are the strongest.
Well some of them are context dependent depending on the deck. Some decks, you don't want to banish random cards from your ED for Extrav. Lab or Eldlich, it's just Pot of Greed.
Some don't mind banishing 10 as long as you can combo off for Desires (or if they benefit from having banished cards). Virtual World can, with Nyannyan, recover facedown banished cards
Etc, etc
We don't even know which are the strongest lol
I mean Avarice and Duality are likely 1 and 2.
19:20 He actually makes a pretty great point, this was especially in contention with Upstart Goblin in that you could argue that decks are already so consistent that they would prefer to see handtraps to interact on the opponent's turn instead of effectively a blank card. Now unlike Upstart Goblin, Pot of Greed and Graceful Charity are a different subject just because they're so egregious in card advantage why wouldn't you run them. But it is interesting that excessive consistency CAN end up being a hinderance and is usually taken into consideration in deck building.
You could probably show rarran cards you've already shown him and he'd still get it wrong and not recognize several
He is infinite content
@@attalaKH rarran impermanence
7:05 I think Cimo mistook Card Destruction ruling with Hand Destruction's. Card Destruction says "as many as possible" whilst Hand Destruction requires both players to discard exactly 2 cards
I don't think so, I think he just misremembered, because Card Destruction DOES need at least ONE player to have a card in hand, he just thought it was both players.
I've just recently discovered this series and binged it. I absolutely loved the guests, the knowledge of different TCG's being exchanged and the length of the episodes 🫶
Keep it up!
Cimoooooooo: I'm taking a break for health reasons
Also Cimoooooooo: I will upload more frequently than before my break.
Pre recorded videos with a schedule release
Ah the feeling, when you destroy someone with Trickstar, after they draw half their deck with Maxx C and you use Card Destruction, its so good
Okay, "freightening car" is a pretty good pun.
upstart is at 3 and nobody but striker plays it because it does nothing on turn 0. drawing an upstart rather than a handtrap will more often than not lose you the game.
"Its too slow, it does nothing until turn 1"
Insane to hear but like... yeah thats a good analysis.
@@carpedm9846 Most decks play handtraps, and the ones that don't are generally bad into droll. Upstart is just a dead card into droll.
A few decks run it but. You usually have to look at it as "engine" instead of ur non-engine staples. White forest has also been running it lately but still maintains high hand trap ratios
@@GodzillaFreakits not dead into droll until you draw/search another card. 1 for 1 card draw just isn't good enough alone regardless of droll
@@KeshavKrishnan If the deck is a combo deck, which decks light on handtraps basically always are, then it is just true that there will be other draws and searches. The exception is a trap deck, but trap decks avoid spells in general because of trap theory, playing them very sparingly. If you don't play handtraps, and you're not being punished for drawing cards, cycling is just good.
41:20 "If this card was still at 3 copies people would play it at three". It has actually been at 3 copies since the start of 2024 and it's rarely played. With the already insane consistency of modern decks and abundance of good generics, there's no need to play a card that's just a +0 when you could instead just put handtraps or boardbreakers in that slot instead, which you would much rather draw than upstart.
The only time I remember a +0 draw being ran in a recent meta deck was a while ago in the OCG where Snake-eyes played 3 Chicken Game after limits to WANTED and Ash, which is because it also serves as a face-up card to send with Diabellstar after it's drawn you a card, technically making it a +1 instead of a +0.
The fact that 3x Upstart is no longer a thing really shows how deckbuilding in Yugioh has changed. The main goal of free-slots in decks went from "more cards to find key pieces to your combo" to "more cards to stop your opponent from doing their combo".
Another factor is that a lot of decks now really don't care about sticking to 40 cards because of the combination of already very high consistency along with garnets that become worse in smaller decks. And obviously if you're already going over 40 then upstart becomes pointless (although there are still a couple exceptions of course).
It has seen some recent play in white forest... Because they can recycle it so it's kinda pot of greed with extra steps
Yeah, it's crazy, but spells are often too slow in Yugioh nowadays because you need to be able to play cards on turn 0.
@7:00 *Card Destruction can be used so long as at least one player has a card in hand.* If _both_ players have zero cards in hand (or no cards other than _that_ copy of Card Destruction in the case of the person playing it from hand), *then* Card Destruction cannot legally be used. Under Konami (I don't recall it from the Upper Deck days), you also _cannot_ use Card Destruction if you have fewer cards left in your deck than you have in your hand. All of this is - or at least _was_ - quite relevant given the combo of Card Destruction and Serial Spell. Serial Spell *does* require you have a card in hand to discard for its cost, but I'm talking about how - if your hand size exceeded your remaining deck size - you wouldn't be able to play Card Destruction, even if you planned on chaining Serial Spell to it and thus emptying out your hand.
25:40 So as terrible as Yamata was the VAST majority of it's life, it did have one moment. It was briefly teched in Dragon Ruler as a SOMETIMES card as they full well legitimately could field the 2 tributes needed to pop it onto the board. It gets better because Yamata is a fire dragon, and thus fully valid for both of Blaster's effects, and a level 7 so it already slots in with all their support. Yamata would often be supplanted in it's spot by Obelisk the Tormentor, as Obelisk was very difficult to out in the mirror outside of another Obelisk, but it wasn't unreasonable to see Yamata come down itself and just dunk some people off the earth by drawing 3-5 cards.
cimo's little elf grin when he says "so let's talk about [card name]" is peak
1:03:40 Oh Rarran, you haven't even seen Pot of Desires.
Insane 6th sense
If I recall Morphing Jar was apart of the initial ban wave. Actually why I quit early on. 500 bucks thrown away felt really bad. I use to play my hand finish with Card Destruction then flip Morphing Jar protected by a trap hole since back then everyone was playing stuff like Gemini or another 1900 power card and watch my opponent cry as they discarded their hand twice. It was a simpler time back then.
Rarran describing super pot of desires at the end is so funny, imagine if something like floowander got to play with that
Others have mentioned, but you can activate Card Destruction in any circumstance where it would affect the game on resolution.
By that, the only case where it can't activate is if you *and* your opponent have no cards in hand, because that's the only case where it would do nothing.
Damn, kinda wish Cimooooo had pulled out Ursarctic Radiation but I guess evaluating that is kinda a wash without knowing how god awful my space bears are.
9:06 now that you've heard it you can't overhear a chicken being murdered
That Rarran re-invented Pot of Desires is crazy.
I could be wrong; but I think the difference between Pot of Avarice and The Beginning of the End is that Pot of Avarice is more susceptible to counter play due to the fact that it requires you to target the cards (and if one is removed it becomes invalid even if you still meet the minimal count); whereas Beginning of the End can only be countered if you are put below the minimal requirement (i.e. if you still have 7 or more cards after your opponent removes one, you can still remove 5 of the remaining since it doesn't specify that they're being targeted).
No, the biggest difference is that banishing 5 is a cost for BotE. The opponent can't respond until after you've already banished them.
Pendulums! Pendulums!
Melt the brains! Rake the coals! Fire up the XYZ/Pendulum combos!
Also Card Destruction is a really good counter to Maxx C if you can give them enough draws…That way they deckout out of their own roach
Card destruction is kinda interesting. You can activate it as long as it would discard at least one card between you and your opponent.
One other thing to mention, in regards to Beginning of the End, is that the draw 3 rarely builds towards something. If you're committed to dumping 15 monsters, there's very little else you can really do besides, I guess, draw into traps---which your opponent may have answers to. And, if you've spent all those monsters on extra deck plays, then chances are you're already setup and there's very little that you can actually _do_ with those draws that your board can't already do. (There's little point in drawing removal/negate/whatever cards if your big boss monsters are doing that anyway.)
Well no danger deep draw very much needed to keep going since you were cycling a lot without necessarily building too much advantage
The costs for it are also quite high. 7+ DARK monsters in grave is a bit too high for a deck to hit turn one unless it's specifically going for mass graveyard shenans (in which case, BotE works against by removing those resources from the grave), and banishing the monsters essentially makes them unrecyclable compared to Avarice's shuffling back into the deck. It just doesn't really have a viable niche.
The thing that really made dupe trooper insane was when combined with limiter removal for a super easy otk
Whats weird with card destruction and Morphing jar from a HS perspective is the disruption you can do to your opponent with these cards, especially if your playing a warlock card destruction deck. because your basically going positive with your cards (kind of like dark world in yugioh) wile making your opponent hate you for getting rid of potential combo cards as unlike yugioh, the graveyard is not a thing and the cards discarded by hand are gone basically forever. these kinds of cards in HS would be considered some of the most toxic cards in the game especially in wild.
As long as one player has a card in their hand (except for the Card Destruction), you CAN legally activate Card Destruction.
The emotional rollercoaster Rarran went through from Dekoichi to Card Trooper was wild lol
One thing that Cimo didn't mention about Pot of Avarice is, it doesn't specify the monsters need to be Main Deck monsters. This was a big part of its strength, putting back Extra Deck monsters (most of which you'd only run at 1 copy) so you could bring them out again if you had the material, letting you either redo your deck's main combos or just have more options to deal with the board. Shuffling back Extra Deck monsters also means you wouldn't hurt the consistency of your Main Deck and makes it far easier to meet the 5 monster requirement than just Main Deck monsters would've.
CIMOOOOOOOO one of my fav hour long video formats i will happily watch and rewatch time and time again
kinda unrelated but toon masked sorc has a nifty combo in Performage Toon rank 4, basically use Trapeze Magician on Mask Sorc or Gemini Elf (both level 4 spellcasters btw) to +2 yourself or -2 the opponent.
Toon Kingdom protects the toon monster from Trapeze's destruction so you don't lose material, gives you some protection from damage so leaving a weak monster like sorc in attack becomes less of an issue.
11:31 Cards much worse than this one have been already banned and nerfed in hearthstone because of how unfun they were.
We need part 2 eventually so we can hear his take on Pot of Desires lmao
Minute 19: he has an amazing point yes the good decks would be more consistent but consistency isnt linear. Thats why its not optimal to run 18 starters for example. So those meta decks already have around 90% consistency and would only slightly increase in consistency while worse decks would have a higher jump. Making it probably more beneficial for inconsistent roge decks. Thats why cards like pot of prosperety are way more impactful in worse strategies then in top meta decks. So yes while annoying I do belive pot of greed isnt close as unhealthy to the game as commonly discussed. GC has to stay banned thougj as it enables combos and set up
Though I see the argument you're trying to make, and this is why modern deck don't run upstart goblin anymore (the small upside in consistency isn't worth the potential brick going second), you're missing 2 way more important factors.
- First off, these cards are absolutely toxic as they make the game more affected by the coin flip and luck dependant in general as opening pot of greed or graceful charity over not opening them is a huge power swing, even when going second. They are in some ways even less balanced than Maxx C, for providing important card advantage but by favoring player 1 even more. And yes, even if they were to always trade 1 for 1 with an ash, it's an upside.
- Second, even though the consistency increase they provide would be more important to less consistent, more degenerate strategies. It's important to remember these meta decks are already so consistent that they can afford to run ~40% if not sometimes ~60% staples, hand traps, etc. So, despite not really improving the combos they would make, these cards would provide more answers and counters to their opponent's strategy. Thus, providing value potentially even higher than the consistency gain to other decks.
This is why these cards should never be unbanned and why almost all pot restrains are atleast being limited and even sometimes banned to this day.
Yeah the swing factor is way more of a problem than anything else. Randomly having 6 card starting hands is pretty annoying
I'd love to see Rarran's thoughts on three of my favorite meme-y cards: Cursed Seal of the Forbidden Spell, Mystical Refpanel and Ordeal of a Traveller.
Masked sorc is a good card in critter. I play one copy in Muka Muka Turbo. but in that format its all about setting monsters and keepig your opponent guessing. set witch, set la jinn, set this guy, set soldier of stone. just keep them guessing until you can build up for a gameshot with last will cannon soldier raigeki and reborn or whatever else needed to go for game.
First time watching this series and it was way more enjoyable than I thought it might be. I love seeing his thought process evolving with more knowledge. Especially to the point where he theory crafted his own card
The good thing about Trap Draw cards in older yugioh is that they can bait your opponent's destruction effects. They target to destroy and you just chain so you kind of plus one by making them waste a card. Was always a great feeling when you chain your Jar of Greed to your opponent's MST that was targeting it. It's funny that Cimo says this tactic is only just now becoming popular in retro formats because I did that all the time when I was a kid.
The Beginning of the End was limited from 2020 to 2022 in the OCG.
Just seen this video dropped and made my day 100% better!
for some reason I remember beginning of the end being semi-limited at some point
it was limited and semi-limited in the OCG but never touched in the TCG
I remember the first time I built a deck that used 3 Pot of Avarice, it got hit just next format, along with several other cards in that deck. It used Fish monsters to get synchro material to draw with Librarian and my first turn ended ten minutes later with two Shooting Quasar Dragon and all pieces of Exodia in hand.
You can set yamatadragon , it will count as battle damage
How often do you regularly attack into things that someone has set, let alone tribute set?
1:03:53 reminds me a lot about desires but kinda better, it would be more balanced if it banishes facedown a random card in your hand and it would totally see play without being more broken than necessary, it would end up at 1 tho.
6:02 Genzo the Shark also has Hearthstone cards in the art.
In the 5D era video games, I liked running 3 jars and 3 legacies in a deck built for level 8 synchros. Probably not that great objectively, but it was fun to be able to target one of those with Scrap Dragon and then chain it to draw before the double pop. Mostly just wanted having the possibility of the MST dream but with a little something else to help justify it.
Cimo im gonna need you to release more of these vids man, as fast as possible
I think Card Destruction can be activated no matter what. It says "as many as possible"
You can't activate a card where the conditions can't be met at all.
There has to be at least one card that it can discard even with the "as possible" stipulation.
46:25 The echoing screams of Gage's misery emanate from the shadow realm
The Beginning of the End doesn't target the cards it removes so the only way for your opponent to disrupt it is to reduce the number of dark monsters in the graveyard below 5. With Pot of Avarice if any of the targeted cards leaves the graveyard the effect can't resolve.
Card Destruction fun story: i was playing treasure Panda Exodia, my opponent went first, just set a card, and passed. I have no idea what he was playing. He hit me with Maxx C at the start of my turn. I had Treasure Panda in my starting hand, with a bunch of spells as draw cards/panda fodder fodder And Card Destruction was in my deck. My opponent banished one of my exodia pieces from my graveyard using his set Called by The Grave, and probably turned his toggles off. I played through most of my deck, extra deck included (there are quite a few extra deck monsters that are good for card draws in Treasure Panda exodia, let's take Formula Synchron, that level 3 cyberse synchro, corall dragon, or ravenous crocodragon as examples. But link spider, link 2 dark/earch charmers, seleene, accesscode could go into a neat combo if your opponent hits you with a dark/earch handtrap, with simply 2 normal monsters in hand, like 2 exodia limbs. The rest were just some nice beatsticks, like Baronne, Satellite Warrior, Stardust Charge Warrior, T.G. Hyper Librarian, etc.) Point is, my opponent Maxx C-d me, made sure I can't get to Exodia, and what I'd assume is he turned off his toggles. Because he had lover 25 cards in his hand by the time my combo finished, and I basically went through my whole deck. Than I hit him with card destruction, with my own hand almost empty. Deck Out victory. One of the 3 win cons of that deck. The Baronne/Accesscode combos are nice too, but generally Exodia himself is the main wincon.
0:50 Woah he said it right!!!
That "Pot of banish" Rarran came up with seems like the perfect addition to a Thunder Dragon deck, it's like if Gold Sarc and Allure of Darkness had a baby :p
Another banger. God I love seeing Rarran get into the yu-gi-oh headspace. Appreciating the dreams and creativity
34:20 Well guys, it looks like Rarran broke Machine Duplication.
16:21 Morphin Jar would be insane in Hearthstone. Imagine activating all the discard synergies, while at the same time ruining your opponent's game plan
Beginning of the End is different from Pot of Avarice in that The beginning of the end does not target those 5 dark monsters so you don't have to select which ones first so if your opponent removes one it will still resolve. The 7 or more is an activation condition and if your opponent removes one to make you only have 6 it won't matter because the required condition was already met upon activation. The only problem you will run into is if your opponent makes you have less than 5 Dark monsters, then the card would not be able to resolve.
Beginning of the End *removes* from play, which is a very rare kind of effect in a card with such a good effect.
Upstart Goblin went to unlimited on the January 4th, 2024 ban listed.
Yeah, modern decks are so consistent that unless its a flat +1 or better, or says "find exactly your starter", they're too weak to see play.
MTG has Pot of Avarice variation called Treasure Cruise. Its very good in our game too.
To be honest, I think Rarran is on to something. I think the consistency improvement to decent but not good enough decks would be much greater than it would be to already ultra consistent decks. Playing Master Duel, I've never seen a Centurion, Snake Eyes, Yubel, or a Voiceless player brick...EVER.
Love how cimo says life not fair
Funny thing semi-related to Morphing Jar. Because Jar would be very slow, and the Anime wanted these very back-and-forth games of cards constantly being played and more than 1 card per turn, the Anime created a spell card Coins From Heaven to just have both players draw back up to 6 cards in hand.
Like other anime cards, it got printed in the physical game as total garbage because it's obviously insanely broken. But it's just kind of cool to think of how much fun a mutual hand refill would be in a very slow version of Yugioh.
honestly I forgot about beginning of the end and it made me curious to see how well it'd work in blackwing or raidraptors (maybe even branded but ehhh). might have to do some testing
Rarran getting too smart for his own good at the end, awesome episode
I would argue that if you have a deck that has an insane ceiling but rarely gets to said ceiling then unbanning pot of greed and graceful might allow them to shake the meta. I can't think of any deck off the top of my head this would work with, but i do know that it would affect hyper consistent decks alot less than inconsistent ones.
Summoning yamata dragon off kashtira birth is one of my favorite interactions
Holy crap the Maliss archetype thats out now could use Beginning of the End as a free reset plus 3 cards, obviously super situational to have an empty board and live but if your opponent manages to whipe your board of links this card could effectively give you back all of the Maliss monsters and draw 3
Fun fact about graceful charity: Chinese ygo player hosted competition with no ban list before, and obviously we know the best deck is that deck, but here comes the funniest thing, graceful charity are in the deck while pot of greed aren't because "Card is not efficient enough"
In the great Pot of Greed vs. Graceful Charity debate, I personally think that Graceful Charity wins because the floor and ceiling of Pot of Greed's power is a +1. The floor of Graceful Charity is a 3-for-3, but the ceiling is much, much higher than a +1.
To answer rarrans question about what would happen if graceful and PoG where at 3 right now, I don't agree with Cimo that nothing would change. Apart from droll being a must main I think either sky striker, dark world or purrely would rush to the top of tier 1. I think of all the meta decks only ryzeal (which isn't even out) would significantly improve with 3 pots.
Purrely with 6 free draw spells and gy setup would be crazy, you guys have no idea. First you get to draw street almost every hand so you instantly invalidate half the hand traps your opponent has. Your deck can easily get to double noir with enough spells in rotation and your engine is pretty good going second so you can cut on the hand traps for more pots. I'd definitely try purrely first if they came back tomorrow.
Only got to card destruction thus far and Rarran both didn’t mention the cards shuffle into the deck and secondly the Sunken City version of Finley that puts your hand in order on the bottom of the deck and you draw as many as you placed in the deck for a 1 mana 1/3 legendary minion.
Hearing rarens description of card destruction I'm DYING to hear his thoughts on one with nothing.
I had a Dark World deck anti-Maxx C me because of card destruction. I tossed it early cause I didn't know what he was playing, forced me to draw half my deck and then played that to force draw the other half while he was empty handed.
In wild hearthstone, 0 mana discard your hand would almost certainly be broken. Adding draw to it would be insane.
Pro Tip = Card Destruction + Serial Spell = GG.... I used to do this to people, it was great times...
-Serial Spell copies card Destruction however it has the cost to discard your hand, doing so means the opponent will discard their hand twice. You will discard and draw nothing.
Random Tip: Card Destruction triggers Dark Worlds...
I'm kind of with Rarran on Graceful Charity (not so much Pot of Greed) actually changing the top decks. Namely, that more powerful decks held back by banlist limitations to their consistency - namely Tearlaments - become disproportionately better.
I think, if you introduced 3x Graceful Charity into the format and no other changes, Tearlament at least starts consistently topping again.
I forgot about dragged down. I'm about to add it back to my deck. 4th summon, play this, rip nibiru, combo off
If masked sorc is in defense position and inflicts battle damage from being attacked you also draw 1 card. This comes up in critter format.
Beginning of the end was always so sinister to me as a child.
For card destruction only one player needs to discard. However if one player has more cards in hand than in the deck it can't legally be activated.
33:16
"Boikoochi"
I wish you showed him Sekka's Light as the most extreme case of the lengths we go to for card draw.
Show him good goblin housekeeping with emergency provisions, and explain how the combo allows you to draw 12 cards
A drawing episode without my best friend runick fountain is criminal!
You know, that was the first time I've seeing Bokoichi somehow, and I thought the editor, edited in a sad cat at the end of it lol. After looking it up, that is indeed how it looks though.
My man really almost organically came up with allure
Rarren might’ve been on to the design behind Pot of Desires at the end lol
*Card Destruction was a deck staple in early Yu-Gi-Oh.* I mean _early_ early Yu-Gi-Oh, maybe just the first six months to (upwards of) two years. Remember, just because you could reclaim Raigeki from your Graveyard with Magician of Faith *didn't* mean it was okay for it to be tossed to draw a single card.
Speaking of Flip Effect Monsters like MoF, there wasn't an easy or effective way to revive them facedown from the Graveyard (or face-up then flip them back down) back then. This was the time when you just had *one copy* of Monster Reborn for revival purposes, so even Summoned Skull hitting your discard pile off of Card Destruction was iffy.
I _think_ (hey, it's been over 20 years) there was a period where Card Destruction saw less play in extended the early days (first five years?), but then there's be another combo that made it return to - if not staple status - commonly-played-card status. *Think of it this way:* Graceful Charity releases, now you're running three of it in your deck - *Oh wait!* - now GC is down to one per deck so Card Destruction returns to fill a slot. Oh, and along would come Call of the Haunted and Premature Burial to help Monster Reborn...
Card destruction just has way to much use now especially for tear or you could even do a lil funny and go rogue with shaddoll.
Main point is you basically go +8 with any graveyard deck turn 1 if it goes through.
i kinda wish you woulda shown machine duplication with the bokoichi. i feel like the reaction would have been superb.
Theoretically I could see the meta changing if pot and graceful were legal if the power level of the less consistant decks was high enough, the main issues are games 2 and 3 imo, if graceful charity was at 3 decks like dark world, fabled and infernity would be a lot better than they currently are but the best endboard they could theoretically put up wouldn't be that much better, maybe they'd win more games but they still wouldn't be ble to compete in a best of 3
Lets go, next draw card with punshiments vid ideas:
One day of peace
Duality
Into the void
Allure of darkness
Left arm offerening
Card of demise
Extravagance/prosperity