Playing Hnefatafl with Dog and Thimble
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- Опубліковано 9 сер 2018
- We invite Tom from the table top game review podcast Dog and Thimble to play an ancient Scandinavian game with us. Hnefatafl, or "King's Table," is an asymmetric strategy game where one side tries to make way for their king to escape and the other tries to encircle and capture him.
00:36 - Joseph explains the rules
03:04 - Tom and Joseph start playing
17:15 - Tom and Joseph share a few thoughts about the game
A big thank you to Tom from Dog and Thimble for playing with us! You can check out his podcast here:
dogandthimble.libsyn.com/episo...
Link to buy Hnefatafl: goo.gl/Rrz96H
Music credit:
Pippin the Hunchback Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License
creativecommons.org/licenses/b...
![Hnefatafl - The Viking Game Deluxe Edition [RCPB496]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kubbsTY0z9k/mqdefault.jpg)
The game is supposed to create a feeling of what Glima (viking martial arts) aimed to achieve on the battlefield.
A viking warrior had a goal to always stay on his feet or within a grasps distance from his opponent while on the ground.
As long as you're on your feet and nimble you can face 2 opponents while stalling for a Bro to help you out.
It is very much a tool to train the "mental oversight" needed during battle.
Fredrik S Very Interesting!
Thank you for this informative tidbit!
I'll be sure to look up Glima!
Viking warrior is redundancy. Viking=pirate. Viking foes not mean northman or Scandinavian. Most scandinavians weren't Vikings. Also there were French and Anglo-Saxon Vikings.
The year 1323 was when Glima was discovered and has nothing to do with the utter rubbish you’re chatting 😂
So, that's a lot of things you inferred about both Hnefatafl and Glíma,
The lesson is to always have a friend around
Thank you for the video, and for giving a platform to this great game, guys.
I don't mind the "imperfect" setting, angles, noises, backgrounds etc at all. Not all videos need to be shot in an artistically staged way, under perfect conditions (though I have a lot of respect for creative film making). This is a great on-the-road, in-between glimpse of friends trying out a new game.
To simulate real battle use a chess timer with 2 seconds per move
Or just napalm the board.
I have played this game many times and king has a distinctive advantage as ge cannot be easily captured as all four sides need to be covered and if you can get the king out early to a corner you can go three ways and fake going one way makig him exert his troops and then go a completely different way giving him not enough time to react and the attacker needs a few moves to get a good formation.
i see it the opposite way, its super easy for the attackers to always win, except it take a long time. maybe we could compare notes. let me know if interested.
It's very much attacker has early game advantage and defender has endgame advantage
It seems the attacker, while not able to take the king, could keep him blocked in the middle with enough support troops then slowly kill the surrounding troops
The defender needs to use the king as a weapon. He is virtually 2 times the power of other units since he requires twice as many squares to capture
They both played horrible... The attacker has better plays defending the corners rather than going in blindly in the beginning...
@@zendokai1527 are there any sources where i can learn the strategy of this game?
im only half way through the video but you also forgot to mention that once the king moves nobody can occupy the center space, not even the king and also that if you pin multiple pieced against a wall you capture all of them.
There's a variety of rule sets, which is interesting by itself. My Android app has probably 20 versions. JF
and about a piece moving itself into a pincer is safe
@@oddpoppetesq.3467 El conjunto de reglas mas aseptado es el de hnefatafl copenhagen que se implementan en los torneos mundiales
Hit 'em where they ain't. Perfect analog of battle.
Sun Tzu's strategy embodied in a game....
I've played this a load of times, and with the normal rules described in the set, the King's side has won 100% of the time. Once he busts out he can rampage around the board and it's impossible to catch him. We made a couple of small adjustments to make a lot more even. These were... the white pieces all have to move at least once before you can move the king, and also that the king can be captured on two sides like all the other pieces. I found that evens it up tremendously.
Very glad you made this video
Thank you
oh yes!!! this looks really really fun to play!
It's rapidly become one of my favorite board games.
The guy without the glasses in this game. The one that knows kind of what you're doing somewhat. Looks like the home alone kid when he got older from the side funny
If I was listening to this like a podcast I would swear you were playing against a tired brian posehn. Very interesting game. Good video!
Tired Brian Posehn is a fairly accurate description of my vocal brand. For what it's worth we actually did talk about this a little bit more in podcast form on my podcast Dog and Thimble which can be found at the link below if you want to continue imagining Brian Posehn talking about viking board games as he slowly falls asleep.
dogandthimble.libsyn.com/episode-85-ancient-games-ft-good-and-basic
Really interesting! I'll have to check this game out
It's a fun one! Good luck!
Just looking at the rules, I noticed that had the attacker moved beside the corner before the king moved into it, then when the king moved there the attacker could have captured him with another peice.
Thr king can only be capture by 4 pieces at all sides.
i thought youd forgotten the rule about jumping into danger, but then you didnt 👍 kudos, quite a few forget that rule....
I used to love playing this with my gramps, he taught me this, chess and backgammon as a kid, i still play both of the latter but no one really plays this anymore 😥
I've got the exact same set, fantastic
Old school awesome
This was played in Wales as late as 1587 ,and today's version is based on the rules noted down by the Welsh antiquarian, Robert ap Ifan.
In Wales ,this game is known as *Tawlbwrdd*
3:10 game start
King has a massive advantage
The inspiration for Thud from the Terry Pratchett book of the same name.
One of us is a Terry Pratchett fan. We'll have to check it out!
I really did enjoy this video I do have a question since you have played the app... I noticed that aside from the rules that you guys are playing that there were several times in the app playing the traditional game that carries this name that one of the Kings pieces would be able to take me out from a long position without flanking me???? It would literally just move all the way across the board and take one of my guys out with no flanking involved and no corners involved so I was very confused by this??? Can you tell me why this is?
I bought the same Hnefatafl board that you guys have in this video, but mine came with a extra brown piece and for the life of me I can't figure out why it came with 25 brown pieces instead of the normal 24. I was wondering if you know what the 25th brown attacking piece is for and how to use it in a game?
Probably a spare Figure or a mistake in Packaging.
It's pronounced "Neff-Ah-Ta-Fal"
Old norse; Hnefatafl
Western Norwegian; Nevatavla
My best translation; Fistboard
Implying both the fistful of pieces each player has, and the actual fistfights the game represents.
Some people feel the need to stray away from the LITERAL translation that still makes sense to Icelandic and Western-norwegian speakers today, but it's real name IS kind of informal so like it or leave it.
FISTBOARD.
@@fredriks5090 icelander here. it directly translates to fist chess.
how many squares can a peace move? could you slide across the board or only move 2 spaces?
All the way across. JB
Since dice were used in original Hnefatafl, what is some opinions on how it was used?
Maybe the number of squares you can use to move
The "dance competition" analogy is perfect, is just what i feel with Trading Card Games and well known Board Games
Great video, but you should have filmed it indoors with wooden board (I know I ask too much to ask). The sound is unpleasant. The video shot should have been stationary with best angle chosen. The third person seems an overkill(or make him real third party, cause he is interesting). The background music is great, but.... should have been filmed live, and players would play to it. The best part is the discussion of the game itself.
How is the king ever gonna get captured if it requires 4 pieces? He'd have to walk into that willingly or am i missing something?
Looks like a fast moving game. Could make some very cool boards and playing pieces. Could see making a board out of foam and using D&D figures perhaps Orcs and Dwarves.
It's funny I was thinking something along the line of the MCU--
Like having Ultron and his sentries attacking the Avengers in the middle, or reverse that with the Avengers attacking Thanos and his Black Order, Outriders in the middle.
There's a video of a woodworker making a nice set of this game.
ua-cam.com/video/iiHlAa131NI/v-deo.html
Where i can get the same game you have there?
There's an Amazon link in the video description. JB
This game is about preventing the rise of kings, so it is excessively hard to capture the king. The whole communitty have nobody to loose, while the king can sacrifice his men to get ahead. Historically the kings won and destroyed the culture.
I wish the music was not this repetitive. It's driving me crazy.
According to military philosophy, the defender has the advantage. This game seems to epitomize that concept.
In the abstract, attackers can have some advantages as well--such as the ability to choose the time and place of attack. If you're defending a wall, the enemy can focus on any one section of the wall, but you have to potentially defend every single section of the wall. JF
Can you trap the king against another defender? Or can the king always have a person by him and be safe? What I’m trying to say is can the king be flanked on sides and be trapped by his own pieces?
No, but kind of. If the king's side has no available moves at all, then the attackers win. But if one of the defenders can still move, they have to. JB
It's pronounced "neh feh tah fleh" for anyone who was wondering.
can you explain the "asymmetric numbers" comment and do-over move around the 6:30 point of video, please?
@Elijah Javner thank you. I can see the white piece would be in jeopardy, but not clear on what asymmetry has to do with it...perhaps a matter of semantics and not a game rule?
There are two black pieces in line past the white piece, but do not see why that would make a difference...yet.
@Elijah Javner so whites move was not an illegal move according to the rules, and could have been part of a white sacrifice tactic, setting up a later move if I understand correctly.
@Elijah Javner Thank you!
What if... In another distant past life... these 2 guys were vikings, playing this game... and it is something that is meant to repeat throughout time between their souls....
nah... vikings go to valhalla
3:45 That computes out.
i think the king is the op piece if used rightly makes the game fair even tho both sides have different pieces.
Cant hear this song without thinking of CK2
is it possible to surround all Conner by attackers to ensure the king cannot leave
Yes but not right next to the corners. The corners act like opposing pieces so you can capture against them
@@GoodandBasic only if you surround with one piece, if you surround the corner double piece thick, they are invincible. and as there is no diagonal, you just need 2 guard on each side of the corner, so 4 in total to block access to it. at the very least you can go block 1 corner when the king move toward there.
10,000 bonus points to escapee for getting out his first match!
nice game guys, my wife and i are just learning it, is there something we are missing because it seams way to easy to get the king to a square and way too hard to surround him? every country pretty near has a different set of rules, one rule in particular is the king can only move a certain amount of spaces at one move,
And another is that the king can't kill. JB
The king can't kill? How very un-Viking.
Neat.......= )
I found a way to improve Hnefatafl so as to it can be playable for both sides. The current game is totally unbalanced in favor of the black side. But my rules require 4 commanders among black pieces.
I think I know where they are I swear I've been there before
Hnefatafl
Nah Fah Tah Fall
Chess meets Tic-Tac-Toe
i wish the inventor was known
I made this game and played in many times with people. I love it, but
one problem. The game is lopsided. The siege pieces have the
advantage. Has anyone modified the rules to make the game more
balanced?
No, the for the king to be captured, they need four pieces, so it balances out.
How does the siege side have the advantage... played five games in a row and the defenders always have the win
you don't have to read the H, you've to read that: Nefataffl
It is a lot of fun to say it though...
JF
i like playing as the defenders because i can win in far fewer terns
Orthogonally
this really makes me think that it's somewhere halfway between go and chess
secret asian man my thoughts at first, however it’s much more concrete than Go, whereas to me at this point Go is more abstract in how it accomplishes things
Waterbears=Tardigrades
I’m sure a lot of people died because of this game in Viking times
What, you think one went berserk when losing in a board game
?
Roman Papec that’s absolutely what I think hahaha. We are talking about drunk Vikings that wanted nothing more than to win lol
@@loganstewart5818 A bit too much tv shows and movies for you.
Yea that Belgium Wall was a bitch
Nice shaky camera the whole video. Thanks for that...
Don't give him too much encouragement.
There can only be one Paul Greengrass.
Nice table to loose the tiny pieces through the holes...
Предки ,глядя на ...ЭТИХ потомков -вешаются.
17:08 - HEY! That's cheating!
Why?
@@AlejandroParis
Didn't you see him jump over the square?
@@mredwardgibbon you can move any number of squares with any piece so there's no cheating. This is not chess.
They should've played drunk.
Buy a tripod
Neffa toffle. Not that hard, m8.
Chess is somewhat of a solved puzzle?
Heh heh... I don't think you have really played chess.
Chess is a 100% solved game.
5 minutes of game play...25 minutes of nerd talk= mental torture
You took to long. To play
The constant rather boring music without a break from it was too much. But an interesting game.
Just play. Don't talk to much. You are not the expert os strategy of war. That't only a game. Just play .....that's it
Just watch, don't comment so much. You're not an expert on what video making, so just watch
Awfull camera Handling, hand in front of camera, too much stupid talking, You all should take it seriously.
Yes, how dare these amateurs have fun making content for free for you. You're so hard done by.
At least you know you need help
if only the nerds would just play instead of being nerds...this vid was unwatchable