Happy New Year everyone! Thank you for helping this channel grow massively over the last year. This video was one we hadn't planned to post but I thought some of you may find the behind the scenes of these tests interesting. Again, really appreciate your viewership and support and looking forward to 2023
Thanks for doing this kind of video, but wow this was a terrible result for the leaf, it should not have charged until the battery was "warm", you do not charge lithium ion batteries below 32°F/0°C under any circumstances. Doing so even once will result in a sudden, severe, and permanent capacity loss on the order of several dozen percent or more, as well a similar and also permanent increase in internal resistance. This damage occurs after just one isolated 'cold charging' event, and is proportional to the speed at which the cell is charged. But, even more importantly, any lithium ion cell that has been cold charged is not safe and must be safely recycled or otherwise discarded. By not safe, I mean it will work fine until it randomly causes a thermal runaway event due to mechanical shock combined with the increased internal resistance. There is a study called "Phenomenon of 'lithium plating' during the charging process observed" and some associated studies that show this issue and other issues with cold charging lithium batteries. My guess would be that the Tesla took 45 minutes before charging because it needed to be sure that all cells were well above freezing and at similar temperatures.
when the 12v is dead it will not charge. you needed to jump the 12v while peeping the charge. once the charge started you would have been able to remove the jumper cables since the DC-DC would take over!
This is one of the things that drives me crazy (har har) about "modern" cars. I noticed it almost *20* years ago with a shiny new Prius, and if anything, it is getting worse. Gearboxes and brakes NEED a mechanical backup. Putting a car into park or neutral should NEVER be impossible. Emergency brakes should ALWAYS be 100% mechanical. Etc. For safety, for emergency situations, to operate regardless of conditions. There is zero reason to design a vehicle which cannot perform these basic tasks. It flat out amazes me that to this day there is not a regulatory requirement for safety covering this. But that soapbox aside, awesome video! Operating conditions are great to print on paper, but the real world has its own set. We need this kind of info!
I never realized that cars with powered gearboxes cannot be put into neutral when there is no power. This seems like a really serious oversight. Is this related to why some newer vehicle with stuck accelerators cannot be put into neutral in an emergency?
@@MrGrumblier mechanic here, almost all can be put into neutral, if not through normal shifting, there should be a small panel you can easily remove and then a lever or strap directly connected to the shifter on the transmission that puts it in neutral
@@caseyshannon2054 I was thinking more of the stories of newer vehicles with stuck accelerators on the highway that can neither shift to neutral nor turn the engine off. Seems like a design flaw to me. Your average driver is not going to think of using a hidden release mechanism to disengage the drive system if they even know it exists. I know that I didn't bother reading my owners manual for most of my cars and when I did it was usually after I had been abusing them for years.
@@dallysinghson5569 Not so. Without regulations, you end up with lead paint on children's toys, for profit hospitals, unchecked pollution, and general chaos. Of course, too much regulation stifles growth, innovation and competition. It is extremes that are bad. For safe, reliable products and services, we need regulations. It is a delicate balance and it often wobbles.
There are 4 kinds of women .. 1.Those who come into man's life and add value 2.Those who come into man's life to destroy what's built and try to take a man away from his track towards success. 3.Those who jump form man to man 4.Those belongs to the streets.. This comment might sound hateful to some people (those who will be triggered) but that's the reality Our brother here got a wife...all the best brother
This is one of my favorite videos from Out of Spec. Kyle is so deliriously frozen that he’s confusing hot with cold and calling the DC/DC converter a battery booster. Alyssa is being a champ as always and somehow not dumping him on the spot and to top it all off you started turning into Cletus McFarland at the end.
I'm very interested in what happens to the red older Leaf. It is important to understand what is happening with all types of EV (I'm not sure it was good that the newer Leaf took a charge without warming up the battery). It might be, the older car is smarter. I think these cold tests are some of the most important your channel has done. Thanks you and your wife's for this hard work. Thx Barry :-)
Twenty below zero is not unusual temps for winter. Americans need dependable autos to start and run and get you to the hospital or work on a daily/nightly basis.
Finally, your comment about "Leaf owners probably know more", you are right, everything you wanted to do is known for those that read the manual. For starters, to get the transmission into Neutral, you just turn on ACC mode and hold the shifter into Neutral for a few seconds to make it disengage the Park (provided the 12V has enough to do that) and more than likely, it had no remaining charge because it was running the battery warmer during those days you left it out. You didn't make it clear in the video, but the Leaf has to be completely "off" before starting any charge session, be QC or L2. It seemed like you were trying to start a charge session with it still on, which won't work for safety reasons. Anyway, at least you both had fun making the video. 😀
I know this is a year old comment, but two different Leafs I have owned, both started accepting charge even with the vehicle being fully on, so. I don't think it's completely true that the car has to be off.
Yeah, odds are almost certain the Bluetooth ODB reader left plugged in drained the 12v battery to an extreme low, and the cold weather probably killed it off. You should put a decent, new 12v battery in the Leaf. I suspect with that none of these problems would have happened with the old girl with a healthy twelve-volt.
If it was the proper BLE (Bluetooth Low Energy) OBD2 adapter then it shouldn't have drained the battery. The intelligent OBD2 adapters shut themselves off when the car ignition/accessory power is turned off. It's most likely either an older/basic adapter or the 12 V battery was near its end of life.
OBD doesn't work on accessory power but these adapters only use enough power to handle the Bluetooth Comms until they are connected. A simple Bluetooth setup can run for a couple of days off a phone battery, it wouldn't significantly affect the leaf's 12v system. If that battery is already bad it may have frozen.
In cold starts you need to read the manual to locate where the key must be placed in low battery situation. Often a cup holder or storage bay. The SOC changing is due to the cold limiting the maximum charge. So as the max comes down, your percentage has a chance to go up.
Thanks for doing all the cold weather testing. This is valuable information for us furry snow creatures that live up in Canada. We may have to make you two honorary Canadians. Happy New Year. Cheers🎉
The new leaf read a higher state of charge because the overall capacity of the battery is lower when it's very cold so the energy that was already in there is a higher percentage of the total battery capacity at that time.
Running to truck after a fully grown man needs all his strength to get the charging cabler in. Wonder how that will work for elderly and disabled people on a icy snow road 🤣 If they manage, to discover the charger does not work. Never mind to bring the back-up car to warm up/not freeze to death.
Wow you guys are taking it to the next level with gaining knowledge on how these cars react in the cold. Happy New Year and keep up the fantastic knowledge transfer.
In Europe will switch fully to EVs in 2024 so is needed know how those works in real world conditions like winter and under freezing temperatures not under labs conditions
Yeah I have to leave my car out in the cold for 8 hour workdays or even longer when I go on the road in a lot without a power outlet in a region with 5 months of hard winter. These videos are making me think about whether or not my next vehicle with be an EV. I was planning on it but frankly this is not a great selling point.
I have used a Leaf (two, actually) for commuting in the north for 10 years now. The cables do get stiff when temperatures get very cold, and the practical range available comes way down (much more than in some EV's that heat their packs while charging, etc.), but I've never had a problem and don't really even think about it much. Like everything else, I got used to what it took to keep everything functional and the cost savings, especially over the last couple of years, have really helped pay for my EV and system (part of which is simple, grid-tied solar panels that offset much of my charging costs). The Leaf automatically starts heating its battery pack as temperatures approach zero. I only do fast-charging when I need to do some extra errand running, but that also helps to warm up the battery pack and results in a little more cold-weather range.
@@WTFUSERNAM44 If you don’t want to charge it right after sitting but drive first, it won’t be an issue. And the problem here was a drained 12V battery that was probably also pretty old - this could’ve happened to a gas car as well. If you have to charge it right after work when it’s been sitting for hours, you’re right though.
@@chrismayer3919 Ummm...just like an ICE car, you mean? I have never been stranded in winter by an EV, but I have been by a pickup I used to drive when the battery died in a cold snap.
Wow, Kyle and Alyssa deserve more than the one like I just gave,.. this video shows the dedication they have for putting these kind of videos out when it's -18degF outside and they had more videos still to produce in the middle of the night. I'd give them two thumbs up and more if i could. Thanks y'all.
the lithium ion battery is only allowed to get so cold if the temp outside is minus 30 and the high voltage is still good then the heaters keeping it between a temp of minus 10 to minus 17 degree's c as minus 20 the battery freezes and is doa no getting it back from that one
Since the recent cold snap, there have been numerous videos about what happens to EVs in the cold, under real-world conditions, and every one of them has been savaged by the EV fanboys.
Yeah it's a cold/hot chanber can only test so much it's also these are built to a cost point like no BEV on the market isbeing sold for artic conditions so why waste moeney making t so?
Yeah the Leaf was never designed for very cold or hot temps. It was designed around Japan and thats about it. They're updating it for future generations
I own a 2103 Leaf SL and it has a killer blind spot. The driver's side column is about the same size as the typical big city cross walk perspective wise. Always double check that nobody has stepped into a crosswalk when you are at a stop sign.
@@spacingguild that's a pretty big drop considering it started at 85. It's about 20% right? My 2017 Bolt had a big side Blindspot too. I'd have to lean out of my seat just to see at one intersection.
Would a similar small gas car start in the same condition? Same 12V battery issues I guess. Plus frozen oil and cooling fluids. The video is too long to go through all of it and I may have missed some key points but it seems that the root cause of the old leaf not working is a poor or dead 12V battery?
It's a real shame Nissan didn't build the Leaf with CCS outside the JDM. Their sales numbers over the years would have been so much higher. A real shame .....
Buy some snow mobile gloves. And a snow brush. This video? Awesome. Your dedication? Awesome. Your wife? Awesome. The charging infrastructure? Insert your favorite bad words.
Your wife is an angel. I don’t know how she does this with you. These tests are insane! I really appreciate all the hard work. I’m thinking about getting an Eevee in the next year or two, and all the charging infrastructure is the most interesting aspect to me because the cars themselves seem pretty fantastic.
WOW!!! that new Leaf is amazing!!! Having some difficulties for sure, But, even at -18 degree temps, It starts! It charges!! , and it Drives!!! Great car. 😀
The experiment, was a great idea! I'm a total night person. I often get coffee, shop, grab things for our cats? I go out at night. Cold, hot whatever. An 18 Civic Si has never let me down. At least the second Leaf, didn't let you down.
@Dave Dee yes it would be good content....if the battery is warm preconditioned lifepo4 batteries aren't bad they last hell of alot longer then standard nmc batteries 300-600 cycles vs 3000-5000 cycles just at the expense of actual range but I would take the loss for a longer life span battery but some people get in there head they need 300 miles because thats what they drive everyday up hill in minus 40 both ways 😉
Here's a good question Did you ever even look at your gas cars actual range I never did except for my 99 dodge Durango tow 6000 lbs it had the 360 5.9 in it I got 300km a tank but I only cared because gas was 2$ a liter and it had a 120 liter tank it was cost prohibited to tow anywhere with that thing just a good old family camp trip would cost 1000$... I live in Canada
Your videos are amazing and honest. I enjoy your and wife's absolute good hearted attempts. Whether good or bad you show it, nothing hidden. I can't imagine a weather diet like you are in now. Memphis, TN tapped 1 degree a few weeks ago and is 70/71 today and tomorrow. Thanks to you both for very informative and intertaining videos.
Thanks a lot for doing all this cold weather stuff: I know it's an incredible hassle but it's producing really terrifically useful info. Happy new year, btw
So far Ive used 2 CP charge sites and 1 EA. The EA worked pretty good; There were a lot of chargers. I had to disconnect, hang up and reconnect to get it to recognize the car but then it charged fine on second start. Both CP sites I went to had 2 chargers but the first unit was down/broke/useless (and had been written up on the CP blog a year ago). The second charger worked in both cases (good thing I was only one there) but one of them the latch was broken and the connector could have just fallen out during charging (also written up a year prior to my arrival, so at least it wasnt a surprise).
My 2015 Leaf would have gone from 43% SOC to about 25 pulling around to the charger the way you did. We sort of missed last weekend's deep freeze by not having to go anywhere. We left it plugged in to the 110 outside (on an extension cord) from Thursday afternoon until Tuesday morning. I could see it come to life Friday and Monday morning to warm up on the timer though. Also Monday afternoon I fired it up to clean it off for the next day and it was down to 85% charge. We only rarely use public charging and ours has no CHAdeMO port so this was interesting informative and fun to watch.
I replaced my original 12v lead acid in my 2015 LEAF (bought used end of 2017 3 yr old previous leased). I have not had a 12 volt die in 2 years. When I got the car it was original 12v (already 3 yr old when I got it). I used it another 3 years, total of 6 years, but it died more than once. The original 12 v sucked and after 3-4 yrs replace them with a good replacement. The CHAdeMO I use at the Dealers on occasion can fail to launch..... ONE BIG THING is the disconnect release button sticks down. I ONLY Charge AT HOME WITH LEVEL 2. The commercial chargers are too expensive. They charge by TIME.... With low charge rate they are raping you. I use my car for local driving, and it is a 2nd car so never use commercial chargers. My other car is VW TDI Diesel which rocks on long trips, 700 mile range, 50 mpg.....
I am sitting here in NC where it got up to 60+ today, after 6 degrees a few days ago, and very appreciative of what you're doing. I do think we are on the cusp of having electric cars better suited for the non-enthusiast. Get some good gloves and a hat with earflaps!
This confirms some of my comments from past weeks. The temps this video was taken is warmer than several of our recent daytime highs, and overnight we've been from 10 to 15 degrees colder. This is normal for our part of the USA and it happens every winter. For Ling term success these evs are going to have to be better engineered so they work in the cold. Not too many people can afford to have a 2nd vehicle on hand for cold weather use. I know some folks will scream at me and tell me how inferior my ice vehicles are but it doesn't matter how much better an ev is, if it doesn't perform adequately regardless of the current weather, people can't depend on them.
The OBD dongle may be the reason the old one didn't start. In those temps, with low SOC on 12V, it will freeze and not accept a charge. Take the 12v inside for a few hours, but place it where acid spillage is no problem, it may have cracked. Charge it a bit, and the car should start. If equipped, on the old Leaf battery heater should kick in when batterytemp is below -15C. It's not huge, 3-500W I believe.
Should be the 12v! My old Leaf always charge in the Canadian winter! But range was crap LoL! Canadian old Leaf have a battery pack heater that kick in when it's -20
Cool test. One thing that caught my eye was the snow is so light. Here on the west coast it is snow/ice, aka Sierra Cement. A lot of water content from the Pacific.
To answer your question about the Leaf battery, you can charge it in those low temperatures because all you need to do is reduce charging power to avoid battery damage. The low charging power will slowly warm up the battery and then charging power can increase. All Leaf(s) other than the very first 2011 models, have battery warmers in either the form of heating pads in the battery case or software heater for the 62/60 kWh models.
Honestly if Nissan would give the Leaf ACTIVE air cooling it would work just fine in hot weather. I just wish they would make the motor and motor controller actively air cooled instead of liquid cooled. Also Nissan needs to bring the e-NV200 to the US. I'd place an order for one as soon as they opened the order banks in the US.
I remember having to jump start the original Leaf in LA. when they were new. People didn't realize they had a starter battery. Also remember having to charge the car at the Nissan dealership when they were the only fast charger around.
2012 Leaf. Experience I think it should be totally turned off when plugged in and charge started. Then, you can turn it on to monitor the incoming AND why not turn on the heater to seats & wheel then! EV’s enhanced NZ have a ‘blade battery’ upgrade path 40kw liquid cooled.
Thanks for these cold-weather videos. I just bought a Bolt EUV and live in Vermont (which has been surprisingly balmy this winter). Cold weather performance has been my biggest concern with driving an EV.
Had mine the other day at -13°. Boy it sucked up battery energy. Charged at a lower rate, but charged. Couldn’t find a fast charger in the area had it down to3%. Never again. Cabin heater cutback.
Happy New Year to everyone at Out of Spec studios. I’m loving these cold weather experiments. Thank you to Alyssa and Kyle for going without sleep for days and going out in the freezing cold for hours to bring us content ❄️🥶❄️
Really appreciated this video. I have been driving my 2018 Leaf here in South Florida where I live. The temperature does not go quite as low in the winter as where you are, getting down to the 50’s on the very coldest of days. For most of the rest of the year the temp ranges from 100 to 120 in the sun. (The shade is slightly cooler). I have not been able to figure out what the internet is talking about when I hear crazy stuff about the Leaf battery performing poorly in high temperatures. Supposedly the passive cooling system for the battery is inferior than active cooling systems in other cars but I just have not experienced that. My Leaf runs fine in any weather.
I am becoming more and more convinced that we need to adopt wireless charging. During extreme weather no need to exit the vehicle, just drive it over the wireless charging pad. For grocery stores, retailers, hotels, etc their parking lots can all have wireless charging . Happy New Years guys
my friends in Germany have told me there are a few of these chargers over there ,One they say is in Frankfurt , Berlin and Hamburg , there neighbour who told them about this said the bottom of the battery pack and the face of the charging pad have to be clean otherwise the charging session is very poor, I am glad that i still drive an older Volvo for now, Here in Winnipeg talking to a few Model 3 owners told me the cars are good, our climate on the other hand beats the daylights out of her battery, her is a Model 3 Long range RWD , your temps of -18 f is cold , not bad that is more of a mild day for us win the dead of winter, the lady says she's averages about 55-60% of battery use in our temps and figures the battery in her car will need replacing in 6 to 7 yrs according to the dealer, it is charged mostly at home in a insulated heated garage , I guess that has got to help to some extinct , great review , get gloves no excuses, I've had frostbitten hands a few times, it sucks and have nerve damage from the last time it happened about 8 yrs ago and are cold sensitive anytime in the winter even if its mild, Happy new year and keep the great videos coming 👍
Wireless charging is quite inefficient. When thinking about just how much energy we're talking about, trying to wireless at 250kW sounds nuts actually.
Not efficient enough, however perhaps making enclosed chargers should be more common. That way the enclosed space could be kept warmer than outside, like say, -5 or so. If your car is too cold to charge it would also help speed up the battery warmer process up process. They also need to make the actual charge handshake process simpler. Get rid of all the app stuff, it should just take a credit card swipe and then immediately work.
@@redsquirrelftw While I would appreciate a covering over a charger and the back of the car, enclosures wouldn't really make much of a difference because air is a poor conductor of heat. Garage doors would be a new way for the things to fail. Vandals would have lots of fun with the doors. I can imagine homeless would start camping in them as well. With fast chargers a car really shouldn't be showing up in a frozen state anyway. (Excepting apartment dwellers/street parkers, but I figure such folks being early adopters at this stage in the EV game know what they are getting into and have accepted it) When you are road tripping the pack would realistically be at or near the ideal temperature by the time you make it too a charger, even if it began the day's drive as an ice cube. Apps are used instead of cards for consumer protection. Even though chip readers are the norm, card skimmers haven't gone away, they've gotten more sophisticated.
@@dorvinion I think the chip reader should still be an option . Allow the customer to take that risk if he chooses. There have been a few cases where I’ve completely forgotten my phone. But I had my wallet with me. In that case, A credit card swipe option should be available.
Old 12v battries have a hard time in winter. N̈ew 12v battery would have fixed all problems. Very happy with my 2015 leaf. Glad to see it pergorming well.
Happy New Year to you both! At this point these are basically public service videos - entertaining but also really useful stuff to know. Looking forward to many more in 2023. Watching the front wheel on that Leaf was painful though...
I'm not an expert by any means, but I did pick up recently that electric cars are o.k. to receive a jump start, but can suffer long term damage if you use them to give a jump start to another vehicle. You should research this.
I'm surprised you weren't able to get the old LEAF charging. My guess is you pulled the jump box off too early, should have left it on while plugging in. Also unhooking the 12v negative terminal for 30 seconds and reattaching it usually cleared up those errors and will let you try again. Lastly, LEAFs have battery heaters if they have cold weather package, the heaters come on at -20C or -4F so that's no surprise the battery was at that temperature. I frickin love LEAFs! awesome testing really cool to see someone out there doing it!
I've had a LEAF for 7 years, and just wanted to concur with you. They are awesome machines, brilliant design, and reliable as hell. We all know the CCS, battery thermal mgmt issues but whatever. I love them too. 💚
I love these videos, Kyle. I love how you give us a real feel of living with an EV even under adverse conditions. I am very interested to know how the extreme weather (cold & hot) affects the batteries short-term and especially the long-term degradation and vehicle battery management. It is sad however, that your old Leaf is not really that old compared to the average American vehicle now being over 10 years old. The Leaf is reduced to a very short route commuter due to its battery degradation in a vehicle that really is not that old. Nissan needed to get battery temperature management setup in those vehicles years ago. A major letdown from one of my all-time 1980s favorite car companies.
Awesome to watch but strange as here in New Zealand it’s New Year’s Day I I’ve spent the night camping on the beach and it’s 30c (86f) nice and hot and sunny.
With respect, I don't see the relevance in this experiment. It's unrealistic that you'd drive to a charge station then leave your car to go cold, right down to the mean air temperature, without inititiating charge. In virtually all cases the car would be warm from being driven there at the initiation of charging.
Meaning - overnight slow charging though still works, even under extremely cold conditions and that may be all you need - better than fossil cars that may not start at all in -30C. However - many EVs use a 12V lead acid battery, which will be their weak point, which is so completely unneccessary because they should have installed a 12V LiFePO4 battery instead, to avoid problems in the winter.
Love your channel for showing what the real world challenges are with going fully electric. Having lived through many winters in Minnesota I well recall the importance of having well maintained vehicles, batteries, oil pan heaters, starting fluid, etc to have any hope of going anywhere when the deep freeze hits. Does the regen braking make it easier to not lock the brakes on ice. Thank you, Happy New Year!
Here is a tow rope truck. if you put your blanket over the tow rope near the disabled vehicle if it does come loose it will help keep the tow rope from flying back into your car. The emphasis is on help. Good luck with your projects.
Makes me all the more happier that I chose a Tesla AWD. Its traction on ice and snow is better than any vehicle I ever drove in my 37 years of driving. Lowest temperature it has experienced, so far, is around 15°F but the only effect the cold had on it was a slight loss of range. The door handles did freeze up after a rainy sub-freezing day, but thanks to the Tesla App update, I can pop the driver's door remotely, from my phone.
Keep in mind 4wd is not what gets you good traction when trying to stop. Tires are what matter. 2 wheel drove rear drive vehicles with winter tires are better than awd drive without winter tires.
This is confirming my beliefs that I won't touch an EV for anything other than local travel where I can recharge the EV at home. My teenage daughter doing a 3+ hour recharge at midnight in -18F where the heater drains the charge faster than charging... that's unsafe. A hybrid or classic gas is still the way to go. I believe we're still 10 years away in battery tech from a successful mainstream EV.
The older Leaf turned its battery heater on, which drained the battery to about 25%. It then shut it off and the battery froze. Im unsure if the second generation had its heater on, but just driving the pack a little will increase its temp. IT was at a pretty high temp for the ambient temps, so it might of ran it for a bit. The first few ticks of battery temp are small increments. I think 5 degrees. So it wouldnt be hard to drive it for a second and get another tick when its that cold.
@@silvy7394 how does it work? The battery has no liquid to transfer the heat. I haven't noticed anything going on in my 30kWh Leaf when it was cold. It drove normally, no regen, but because I'm trying to preserve the battery I kept it at high SOC and charged it with at least 2 or 3 temp bars...
@@anzew88 Its heating element strips (essentially) that make contact with the cells. Its only 300 watts and turns on around 0F. 0F is when you have NO bars of temperature on the dash. Its not enough to keep the pack warm or to really warm it up much, only to keep it from dipping any cooler
I was in similar overnight -27C ambient temperature with my GV60 recently. The car was properly cold soaked parked outside, battery pack temp read -15C when I plugged into a DC charger and the car took 23kW right away. I thought this was painfully slow but it seems that it is quite fast compared to the model 3 and Leaf under similar conditions.
I would highly suggest driving the car to warm the car first, since the GV60 charging controller doesn't seem to be protecting the battery. You are running a very high risk of 'plating' and permanent loss of capacity with such high charging at such low temperatures.
@@vigneshie Just with some background this is my 3rd Hyundai EV and have driven them in several severe Canadian winters over 100,000 km driven. The modern Hyundai EVs have high content nickel/cadmium NCM chemistry that are very tolerant to safe cold weather charging. At least in Canada most e-gmp EVs come with 6kW resistive PTC battery heaters that thermoregulate the pack and can precondition prior and during DC charging in severe cold. Driving the car does not add significant heat, I have monitored battery temps fairly extensively to comfortable state that. The BMS programming will allow the car to get as cold as -15C before it self protects itself with the PTC battery heater. Even at -15C pack temperature the BMS allow fairly reasonable regenerative breaking, it all comes down to the battery chemistry and I strongly believe cold weather charging is one of the strong advantages over the Tesla's and Nissan EV approaches with no real concern over battery longevity.
I'm guessing the battery heater on the old leaf kicked in while it was parked and that's what drained the high voltage battery. Maybe the newer one triggers at a lower temperature so didn't see the same range loss. The manual does say if it's going to be really cold leave the leaf plugged into AC power to be safe.
Happy New Year everyone! Thank you for helping this channel grow massively over the last year. This video was one we hadn't planned to post but I thought some of you may find the behind the scenes of these tests interesting. Again, really appreciate your viewership and support and looking forward to 2023
Thanks Kyle....I had the time and enjoyed.
Thanks for doing this kind of video, but wow this was a terrible result for the leaf, it should not have charged until the battery was "warm", you do not charge lithium ion batteries below 32°F/0°C under any circumstances.
Doing so even once will result in a sudden, severe, and permanent capacity loss on the order of several dozen percent or more, as well a similar and also permanent increase in internal resistance. This damage occurs after just one isolated 'cold charging' event, and is proportional to the speed at which the cell is charged.
But, even more importantly, any lithium ion cell that has been cold charged is not safe and must be safely recycled or otherwise discarded. By not safe, I mean it will work fine until it randomly causes a thermal runaway event due to mechanical shock combined with the increased internal resistance.
There is a study called "Phenomenon of 'lithium plating' during the charging process observed" and some associated studies that show this issue and other issues with cold charging lithium batteries. My guess would be that the Tesla took 45 minutes before charging because it needed to be sure that all cells were well above freezing and at similar temperatures.
Moral of the story….if you live in cold weather climate and don’t have access to a garage, an EV might not be the best choice for you.
"Nissan Sent me a new Leaf to test drive" ...
"I turned it into an Ice brick"
You are the best in the business, Kyle, Alyssa and team!!
when the 12v is dead it will not charge. you needed to jump the 12v while peeping the charge. once the charge started you would have been able to remove the jumper cables since the DC-DC would take over!
They couldn't even add a low capacity charger to charge the 12 volt battery??
This is one of the things that drives me crazy (har har) about "modern" cars. I noticed it almost *20* years ago with a shiny new Prius, and if anything, it is getting worse. Gearboxes and brakes NEED a mechanical backup. Putting a car into park or neutral should NEVER be impossible. Emergency brakes should ALWAYS be 100% mechanical. Etc. For safety, for emergency situations, to operate regardless of conditions. There is zero reason to design a vehicle which cannot perform these basic tasks. It flat out amazes me that to this day there is not a regulatory requirement for safety covering this. But that soapbox aside, awesome video! Operating conditions are great to print on paper, but the real world has its own set. We need this kind of info!
I never realized that cars with powered gearboxes cannot be put into neutral when there is no power. This seems like a really serious oversight. Is this related to why some newer vehicle with stuck accelerators cannot be put into neutral in an emergency?
@@MrGrumblier mechanic here, almost all can be put into neutral, if not through normal shifting, there should be a small panel you can easily remove and then a lever or strap directly connected to the shifter on the transmission that puts it in neutral
@@caseyshannon2054 I was thinking more of the stories of newer vehicles with stuck accelerators on the highway that can neither shift to neutral nor turn the engine off. Seems like a design flaw to me. Your average driver is not going to think of using a hidden release mechanism to disengage the drive system if they even know it exists. I know that I didn't bother reading my owners manual for most of my cars and when I did it was usually after I had been abusing them for years.
Regulations bad. Very bad. Too much government overreach.
@@dallysinghson5569 Not so. Without regulations, you end up with lead paint on children's toys, for profit hospitals, unchecked pollution, and general chaos. Of course, too much regulation stifles growth, innovation and competition. It is extremes that are bad. For safe, reliable products and services, we need regulations. It is a delicate balance and it often wobbles.
That IS HOW you know she loves you, putting up with these crazy test with you 🤣
what shows love best when they get a beating and dont run away, or testing with Kyle..
both is horrible im not sure 🤭
I bet she has two layers of long johns.
I hope he treats her to a wonderful romantic dinner night for all the stuff he puts her through.
There are 4 kinds of women ..
1.Those who come into man's life and add value
2.Those who come into man's life to destroy what's built and try to take a man away from his track towards success.
3.Those who jump form man to man
4.Those belongs to the streets..
This comment might sound hateful to some people (those who will be triggered) but that's the reality
Our brother here got a wife...all the best brother
...and giving you her gloves in -20 weather and explaining how you were giving yourself frostbite.
This is one of my favorite videos from
Out of Spec. Kyle is so deliriously frozen that he’s confusing hot with cold and calling the DC/DC converter a battery booster. Alyssa is being a champ as always and somehow not dumping him on the spot and to top it all off you started turning into Cletus McFarland at the end.
I'm very interested in what happens to the red older Leaf. It is important to understand what is happening with all types of EV (I'm not sure it was good that the newer Leaf took a charge without warming up the battery). It might be, the older car is smarter. I think these cold tests are some of the most important your channel has done. Thanks you and your wife's for this hard work. Thx Barry :-)
Brain freeze!
Twenty below zero is not unusual temps for winter.
Americans need dependable autos to start and run and get you to the hospital or work on a daily/nightly basis.
And did i hear him say booster cable red to black!
@@barryhomes1 There is a vlog video on getting it working again on his "personal" channel.
My 2016 Nissan Leaf is now happy, it sleeps in our cozy garage now.
Finally, your comment about "Leaf owners probably know more", you are right, everything you wanted to do is known for those that read the manual. For starters, to get the transmission into Neutral, you just turn on ACC mode and hold the shifter into Neutral for a few seconds to make it disengage the Park (provided the 12V has enough to do that) and more than likely, it had no remaining charge because it was running the battery warmer during those days you left it out. You didn't make it clear in the video, but the Leaf has to be completely "off" before starting any charge session, be QC or L2. It seemed like you were trying to start a charge session with it still on, which won't work for safety reasons. Anyway, at least you both had fun making the video. 😀
I know this is a year old comment, but two different Leafs I have owned, both started accepting charge even with the vehicle being fully on, so. I don't think it's completely true that the car has to be off.
Yes, it has to be with mine too
Yeah, odds are almost certain the Bluetooth ODB reader left plugged in drained the 12v battery to an extreme low, and the cold weather probably killed it off. You should put a decent, new 12v battery in the Leaf. I suspect with that none of these problems would have happened with the old girl with a healthy twelve-volt.
If it was the proper BLE (Bluetooth Low Energy) OBD2 adapter then it shouldn't have drained the battery. The intelligent OBD2 adapters shut themselves off when the car ignition/accessory power is turned off. It's most likely either an older/basic adapter or the 12 V battery was near its end of life.
If that is the same battery from a few months ago you are right. It was weak then.
The Leaf kills accessory power when the ignition is off so I’d say that the battery was low on charge anyway.
Cope and seeth. It's fun watching two coal powered electric vehicles fail so hard from WEF shills like yourself.
OBD doesn't work on accessory power but these adapters only use enough power to handle the Bluetooth Comms until they are connected. A simple Bluetooth setup can run for a couple of days off a phone battery, it wouldn't significantly affect the leaf's 12v system. If that battery is already bad it may have frozen.
In cold starts you need to read the manual to locate where the key must be placed in low battery situation. Often a cup holder or storage bay.
The SOC changing is due to the cold limiting the maximum charge. So as the max comes down, your percentage has a chance to go up.
GLOVES KYLE!!!
Thanks for doing all the cold weather testing. This is valuable information for us furry snow creatures that live up in Canada. We may have to make you two honorary Canadians. Happy New Year. Cheers🎉
As a Winnipegger I commend your fortitude in being out doing fidgety hand work in those temps. Done that many, many times myself and it's no fun.
I also own a 2013 and 2018 Nissan leafs and never had issues with them in the winter . Happy New Year 🎉
The new leaf read a higher state of charge because the overall capacity of the battery is lower when it's very cold so the energy that was already in there is a higher percentage of the total battery capacity at that time.
So better to look at the miles then?
Your certainly dedicated to everything about electric vehicles. I appreciate all your hard work. Thanks
I hope he knows not to drive away with the charger still connected.
Running to truck after a fully grown man needs all his strength to get the charging cabler in. Wonder how that will work for elderly and disabled people on a icy snow road 🤣 If they manage, to discover the charger does not work. Never mind to bring the back-up car to warm up/not freeze to death.
Your wife is a trooper. Thank her from all us viewers for holding the camera.
this is really cool and good to know this is knowledge we need in the future!
Wow you guys are taking it to the next level with gaining knowledge on how these cars react in the cold. Happy New Year and keep up the fantastic knowledge transfer.
In Europe will switch fully to EVs in 2024 so is needed know how those works in real world conditions like winter and under freezing temperatures not under labs conditions
Cold weather charging by itself can be a deal breaker for many people.
Yeah I have to leave my car out in the cold for 8 hour workdays or even longer when I go on the road in a lot without a power outlet in a region with 5 months of hard winter. These videos are making me think about whether or not my next vehicle with be an EV. I was planning on it but frankly this is not a great selling point.
I have used a Leaf (two, actually) for commuting in the north for 10 years now. The cables do get stiff when temperatures get very cold, and the practical range available comes way down (much more than in some EV's that heat their packs while charging, etc.), but I've never had a problem and don't really even think about it much. Like everything else, I got used to what it took to keep everything functional and the cost savings, especially over the last couple of years, have really helped pay for my EV and system (part of which is simple, grid-tied solar panels that offset much of my charging costs). The Leaf automatically starts heating its battery pack as temperatures approach zero. I only do fast-charging when I need to do some extra errand running, but that also helps to warm up the battery pack and results in a little more cold-weather range.
@@WTFUSERNAM44 If you don’t want to charge it right after sitting but drive first, it won’t be an issue. And the problem here was a drained 12V battery that was probably also pretty old - this could’ve happened to a gas car as well.
If you have to charge it right after work when it’s been sitting for hours, you’re right though.
I am SO glad I didn’t but into all the EV hype; until it’s parts are replaced, that Nissan is DOA- Dead On it’s Axles!
@@chrismayer3919 Ummm...just like an ICE car, you mean? I have never been stranded in winter by an EV, but I have been by a pickup I used to drive when the battery died in a cold snap.
Wow, Kyle and Alyssa deserve more than the one like I just gave,.. this video shows the dedication they have for putting these kind of videos out when it's -18degF outside and they had more videos still to produce in the middle of the night. I'd give them two thumbs up and more if i could. Thanks y'all.
the lithium ion battery is only allowed to get so cold if the temp outside is minus 30 and the high voltage is still good then the heaters keeping it between a temp of minus 10 to minus 17 degree's c as minus 20 the battery freezes and is doa no getting it back from that one
I think you do a better cold test than the car manufacturers. Great work. Happy New Year.
Since the recent cold snap, there have been numerous videos about what happens to EVs in the cold, under real-world conditions, and every one of them has been savaged by the EV fanboys.
Yeah it's a cold/hot chanber can only test so much it's also these are built to a cost point like no BEV on the market isbeing sold for artic conditions so why waste moeney making t so?
Yeah the Leaf was never designed for very cold or hot temps. It was designed around Japan and thats about it. They're updating it for future generations
I own a 2103 Leaf SL and it has a killer blind spot. The driver's side column is about the same size as the typical big city cross walk perspective wise. Always double check that nobody has stepped into a crosswalk when you are at a stop sign.
It’s the column airbags. Some Toyotas have the same problem.
How much range does it get? Also do they still have the same type of charging port 81 years in the future?
@@Sophia-vk5bq My 2013 started with about 85 and now gets about 70. We bought it new and are the only owners. 40K miles.
It’s the same way on 2018+ LEAF. I hate that!
@@spacingguild that's a pretty big drop considering it started at 85. It's about 20% right?
My 2017 Bolt had a big side Blindspot too. I'd have to lean out of my seat just to see at one intersection.
Key is not detected normally means your key is too cold. Can normally insert the key somewhere into the car, to bypass
Some of the most interesting winter EV videos I have seen, Thank You!
Like the dynamic between you and Alyssa. Really enjoyed this deep freeze series.
Would a similar small gas car start in the same condition? Same 12V battery issues I guess. Plus frozen oil and cooling fluids.
The video is too long to go through all of it and I may have missed some key points but it seems that the root cause of the old leaf not working is a poor or dead 12V battery?
It's a real shame Nissan didn't build the Leaf with CCS outside the JDM. Their sales numbers over the years would have been so much higher. A real shame .....
I dont know much about the leaf but i would have kept the 12 volt batteries jumpered to gether untill the charger had begun charging.
Happy New Year! So much like a horse, an EV needs to be fed all winter even if you don't use it.
Buy some snow mobile gloves. And a snow brush. This video? Awesome. Your dedication? Awesome. Your wife? Awesome. The charging infrastructure? Insert your favorite bad words.
Your wife is an angel. I don’t know how she does this with you. These tests are insane! I really appreciate all the hard work. I’m thinking about getting an Eevee in the next year or two, and all the charging infrastructure is the most interesting aspect to me because the cars themselves seem pretty fantastic.
I think UA-cam revenue might have something to do with it!
WOW!!! that new Leaf is amazing!!! Having some difficulties for sure, But, even at -18 degree temps, It starts! It charges!! , and it Drives!!! Great car. 😀
My 12 Leaf makes that clicking noise if I forget to take the obd2 dongle off.
The experiment, was a great idea! I'm a total night person. I often get coffee, shop, grab things for our cats? I go out at night. Cold, hot whatever. An 18 Civic Si has never let me down. At least the second Leaf, didn't let you down.
You guys are just enjoying yourselves too much. Great winter posts.
I stumbled across this. Well in weather like that no ones gonna leave thier leaf less than 50 %
There’s an LFP battery option out for Leafs. You should get that if you’re going to upgrade anyway.
Lifepo4 batteries are worse for cold weather
@@lesstevens2370 True, but would make for good content, right?
@Dave Dee yes it would be good content....if the battery is warm preconditioned lifepo4 batteries aren't bad they last hell of alot longer then standard nmc batteries 300-600 cycles vs 3000-5000 cycles just at the expense of actual range but I would take the loss for a longer life span battery but some people get in there head they need 300 miles because thats what they drive everyday up hill in minus 40 both ways 😉
Here's a good question Did you ever even look at your gas cars actual range I never did except for my 99 dodge Durango tow 6000 lbs it had the 360 5.9 in it I got 300km a tank but I only cared because gas was 2$ a liter and it had a 120 liter tank it was cost prohibited to tow anywhere with that thing just a good old family camp trip would cost 1000$... I live in Canada
Have you ever gone to electrify America and had it actually work? Why did you park by those chargers and not charges that actually work?
Your videos are amazing and honest. I enjoy your and wife's absolute good hearted attempts. Whether good or bad you show it, nothing hidden. I can't imagine a weather diet like you are in now. Memphis, TN tapped 1 degree a few weeks ago and is 70/71 today and tomorrow. Thanks to you both for very informative and intertaining videos.
The wheelspin when Kyle initially drives the Gen 2 Leaf, followed by his and Alyssa's frozen ANTICS, (fingers about to fall off) =hilarious! 🤣
Thanks a lot for doing all this cold weather stuff: I know it's an incredible hassle but it's producing really terrifically useful info. Happy new year, btw
Wow what a great wife! She is out there in subzero weather in the middle of the night helping her husband. I hope you realize how lucky you are!
I still have my 2014 Nissan Leaf! Love it for little distance! The model 3 perfect for road trip ! Nice video
So far Ive used 2 CP charge sites and 1 EA. The EA worked pretty good; There were a lot of chargers. I had to disconnect, hang up and reconnect to get it to recognize the car but then it charged fine on second start. Both CP sites I went to had 2 chargers but the first unit was down/broke/useless (and had been written up on the CP blog a year ago). The second charger worked in both cases (good thing I was only one there) but one of them the latch was broken and the connector could have just fallen out during charging (also written up a year prior to my arrival, so at least it wasnt a surprise).
At -26C my Bolt says Battery too cold to start after sitting over night. But 8amp 120 volt plug in and it is ready in 4 hours and charges after that.
So neat! I parked my 2 cars outside. Who knew?
Gonna watch the ads carefully and buy something so Kyle can afford gloves!
No kidding! Coming this summer in Death Valley, Kyle spends a day filming outside with no sunscreen….😝
The battery heater drained the pack to nothing. The manual says never to let that happen
My 2015 Leaf would have gone from 43% SOC to about 25 pulling around to the charger the way you did. We sort of missed last weekend's deep freeze by not having to go anywhere. We left it plugged in to the 110 outside (on an extension cord) from Thursday afternoon until Tuesday morning. I could see it come to life Friday and Monday morning to warm up on the timer though. Also Monday afternoon I fired it up to clean it off for the next day and it was down to 85% charge. We only rarely use public charging and ours has no CHAdeMO port so this was interesting informative and fun to watch.
I replaced my original 12v lead acid in my 2015 LEAF (bought used end of 2017 3 yr old previous leased). I have not had a 12 volt die in 2 years. When I got the car it was original 12v (already 3 yr old when I got it). I used it another 3 years, total of 6 years, but it died more than once. The original 12 v sucked and after 3-4 yrs replace them with a good replacement. The CHAdeMO I use at the Dealers on occasion can fail to launch..... ONE BIG THING is the disconnect release button sticks down. I ONLY Charge AT HOME WITH LEVEL 2. The commercial chargers are too expensive. They charge by TIME.... With low charge rate they are raping you. I use my car for local driving, and it is a 2nd car so never use commercial chargers. My other car is VW TDI Diesel which rocks on long trips, 700 mile range, 50 mpg.....
I am sitting here in NC where it got up to 60+ today, after 6 degrees a few days ago, and very appreciative of what you're doing. I do think we are on the cusp of having electric cars better suited for the non-enthusiast. Get some good gloves and a hat with earflaps!
This confirms some of my comments from past weeks. The temps this video was taken is warmer than several of our recent daytime highs, and overnight we've been from 10 to 15 degrees colder.
This is normal for our part of the USA and it happens every winter. For Ling term success these evs are going to have to be better engineered so they work in the cold. Not too many people can afford to have a 2nd vehicle on hand for cold weather use.
I know some folks will scream at me and tell me how inferior my ice vehicles are but it doesn't matter how much better an ev is, if it doesn't perform adequately regardless of the current weather, people can't depend on them.
Just move to a Superior state like California
The OBD dongle may be the reason the old one didn't start. In those temps, with low SOC on 12V, it will freeze and not accept a charge. Take the 12v inside for a few hours, but place it where acid spillage is no problem, it may have cracked.
Charge it a bit, and the car should start.
If equipped, on the old Leaf battery heater should kick in when batterytemp is below -15C. It's not huge, 3-500W I believe.
Should be the 12v! My old Leaf always charge in the Canadian winter! But range was crap LoL! Canadian old Leaf have a battery pack heater that kick in when it's -20
Cool test. One thing that caught my eye was the snow is so light. Here on the west coast it is snow/ice, aka Sierra Cement. A lot of water content from the Pacific.
Well you found some gloves. All you’re missing now is a snow brush
Your remote key: likely needs a battery too.. (update / replace ).
To answer your question about the Leaf battery, you can charge it in those low temperatures because all you need to do is reduce charging power to avoid battery damage. The low charging power will slowly warm up the battery and then charging power can increase. All Leaf(s) other than the very first 2011 models, have battery warmers in either the form of heating pads in the battery case or software heater for the 62/60 kWh models.
Honestly if Nissan would give the Leaf ACTIVE air cooling it would work just fine in hot weather. I just wish they would make the motor and motor controller actively air cooled instead of liquid cooled. Also Nissan needs to bring the e-NV200 to the US. I'd place an order for one as soon as they opened the order banks in the US.
My city car. I purchased a Nissan leaf 2017 while I wait for the Tesla Y. I still haven’t picked up the Tesla a year on.
I remember having to jump start the original Leaf in LA. when they were new. People didn't realize they had a starter battery. Also remember having to charge the car at the Nissan dealership when they were the only fast charger around.
2012 Leaf. Experience I think it should be totally turned off when plugged in and charge started. Then, you can turn it on to monitor the incoming AND why not turn on the heater to seats & wheel then!
EV’s enhanced NZ have a ‘blade battery’ upgrade path 40kw liquid cooled.
That would be such a wonderful upgrade for the Leaf.
Love the content! Get some gloves and an ice scraper/snow brush!
Happy New Year!
So NOT angry. Great to see how you folks cope with the stressful situations.
Thanks for these cold-weather videos. I just bought a Bolt EUV and live in Vermont (which has been surprisingly balmy this winter). Cold weather performance has been my biggest concern with driving an EV.
Had mine the other day at -13°. Boy it sucked up battery energy. Charged at a lower rate, but charged. Couldn’t find a fast charger in the area had it down to3%. Never again. Cabin heater cutback.
Sounds like you need one of those mobile booster packs so you can avoid yanking another car. Thanks for testing!
He lost it
When I tested batteries, we could not charge at -40, only discharge. We could only charge a tiny bit at -30C.
Happy New Year to everyone at Out of Spec studios. I’m loving these cold weather experiments. Thank you to Alyssa and Kyle for going without sleep for days and going out in the freezing cold for hours to bring us content ❄️🥶❄️
Seems like mittens are not invented in US
Fun in the snow!
Did the cable at least become a little easier to handle after charging for an hour?
Really appreciated this video. I have been driving my 2018 Leaf here in South Florida where I live. The temperature does not go quite as low in the winter as where you are, getting down to the 50’s on the very coldest of days. For most of the rest of the year the temp ranges from 100 to 120 in the sun. (The shade is slightly cooler). I have not been able to figure out what the internet is talking about when I hear crazy stuff about the Leaf battery performing poorly in high temperatures. Supposedly the passive cooling system for the battery is inferior than active cooling systems in other cars but I just have not experienced that. My Leaf runs fine in any weather.
I am becoming more and more convinced that we need to adopt wireless charging.
During extreme weather no need to exit the vehicle, just drive it over the wireless charging pad.
For grocery stores, retailers, hotels, etc their parking lots can all have wireless charging .
Happy New Years guys
my friends in Germany have told me there are a few of these chargers over there ,One they say is in Frankfurt , Berlin and Hamburg , there neighbour who told them about this said the bottom of the battery pack and the face of the charging pad have to be clean otherwise the charging session is very poor, I am glad that i still drive an older Volvo for now, Here in Winnipeg talking to a few Model 3 owners told me the cars are good, our climate on the other hand beats the daylights out of her battery, her is a Model 3 Long range RWD , your temps of -18 f is cold , not bad that is more of a mild day for us win the dead of winter, the lady says she's averages about 55-60% of battery use in our temps and figures the battery in her car will need replacing in 6 to 7 yrs according to the dealer, it is charged mostly at home in a insulated heated garage , I guess that has got to help to some extinct , great review , get gloves no excuses, I've had frostbitten hands a few times, it sucks and have nerve damage from the last time it happened about 8 yrs ago and are cold sensitive anytime in the winter even if its mild, Happy new year and keep the great videos coming 👍
Wireless charging is quite inefficient.
When thinking about just how much energy we're talking about, trying to wireless at 250kW sounds nuts actually.
Not efficient enough, however perhaps making enclosed chargers should be more common. That way the enclosed space could be kept warmer than outside, like say, -5 or so. If your car is too cold to charge it would also help speed up the battery warmer process up process. They also need to make the actual charge handshake process simpler. Get rid of all the app stuff, it should just take a credit card swipe and then immediately work.
@@redsquirrelftw While I would appreciate a covering over a charger and the back of the car, enclosures wouldn't really make much of a difference because air is a poor conductor of heat. Garage doors would be a new way for the things to fail. Vandals would have lots of fun with the doors. I can imagine homeless would start camping in them as well.
With fast chargers a car really shouldn't be showing up in a frozen state anyway. (Excepting apartment dwellers/street parkers, but I figure such folks being early adopters at this stage in the EV game know what they are getting into and have accepted it)
When you are road tripping the pack would realistically be at or near the ideal temperature by the time you make it too a charger, even if it began the day's drive as an ice cube.
Apps are used instead of cards for consumer protection. Even though chip readers are the norm, card skimmers haven't gone away, they've gotten more sophisticated.
@@dorvinion I think the chip reader should still be an option . Allow the customer to take that risk if he chooses. There have been a few cases where I’ve completely forgotten my phone. But I had my wallet with me. In that case, A credit card swipe option should be available.
Old 12v battries have a hard time in winter. N̈ew 12v battery would have fixed all problems. Very happy with my 2015 leaf. Glad to see it pergorming well.
Happy New Year to you both! At this point these are basically public service videos - entertaining but also really useful stuff to know. Looking forward to many more in 2023. Watching the front wheel on that Leaf was painful though...
I'm not an expert by any means, but I did pick up recently that electric cars are o.k. to receive a jump start, but can suffer long term damage if you use them to give a jump start to another vehicle. You should research this.
I'm surprised you weren't able to get the old LEAF charging. My guess is you pulled the jump box off too early, should have left it on while plugging in. Also unhooking the 12v negative terminal for 30 seconds and reattaching it usually cleared up those errors and will let you try again. Lastly, LEAFs have battery heaters if they have cold weather package, the heaters come on at -20C or -4F so that's no surprise the battery was at that temperature. I frickin love LEAFs! awesome testing really cool to see someone out there doing it!
I've had a LEAF for 7 years, and just wanted to concur with you. They are awesome machines, brilliant design, and reliable as hell. We all know the CCS, battery thermal mgmt issues but whatever. I love them too. 💚
I love these videos, Kyle. I love how you give us a real feel of living with an EV even under adverse conditions. I am very interested to know how the extreme weather (cold & hot) affects the batteries short-term and especially the long-term degradation and vehicle battery management. It is sad however, that your old Leaf is not really that old compared to the average American vehicle now being over 10 years old. The Leaf is reduced to a very short route commuter due to its battery degradation in a vehicle that really is not that old. Nissan needed to get battery temperature management setup in those vehicles years ago. A major letdown from one of my all-time 1980s favorite car companies.
Awesome to watch but strange as here in New Zealand it’s New Year’s Day I I’ve spent the night camping on the beach and it’s 30c (86f) nice and hot and sunny.
Happy new year 🎉
You live in the southern hemisphere, what do you expect?
With respect, I don't see the relevance in this experiment. It's unrealistic that you'd drive to a charge station then leave your car to go cold, right down to the mean air temperature, without inititiating charge. In virtually all cases the car would be warm from being driven there at the initiation of charging.
Any experiment that provides useful information is a successful experiment.
Meaning - overnight slow charging though still works, even under extremely cold conditions and that may be all you need - better than fossil cars that may not start at all in -30C. However - many EVs use a 12V lead acid battery, which will be their weak point, which is so completely unneccessary because they should have installed a 12V LiFePO4 battery instead, to avoid problems in the winter.
Can I do that if I don't have a house?
Love your channel for showing what the real world challenges are with going fully electric. Having lived through many winters in Minnesota I well recall the importance of having well maintained vehicles, batteries, oil pan heaters, starting fluid, etc to have any hope of going anywhere when the deep freeze hits. Does the regen braking make it easier to not lock the brakes on ice. Thank you, Happy New Year!
Here is a tow rope truck. if you put your blanket over the tow rope near the disabled vehicle if it does come loose it will help keep the tow rope from flying back into your car. The emphasis is on help. Good luck with your projects.
*Love the cold weather tests thanks!*
Next year ask Santa to bring you some gloves for Christmas 😎
great video, I was considering the leaf and this solidifies my next car when my Camry kicks the bucket.
I'm at minute 19 as I write this comment. Excellent demonstration as usual. Happy New Year, guys! 🎇 🎊 🚙 🇺🇸
Makes me all the more happier that I chose a Tesla AWD. Its traction on ice and snow is better than any vehicle I ever drove in my 37 years of driving. Lowest temperature it has experienced, so far, is around 15°F but the only effect the cold had on it was a slight loss of range. The door handles did freeze up after a rainy sub-freezing day, but thanks to the Tesla App update, I can pop the driver's door remotely, from my phone.
Keep in mind 4wd is not what gets you good traction when trying to stop. Tires are what matter. 2 wheel drove rear drive vehicles with winter tires are better than awd drive without winter tires.
This is confirming my beliefs that I won't touch an EV for anything other than local travel where I can recharge the EV at home. My teenage daughter doing a 3+ hour recharge at midnight in -18F where the heater drains the charge faster than charging... that's unsafe.
A hybrid or classic gas is still the way to go. I believe we're still 10 years away in battery tech from a successful mainstream EV.
You so need a jump start battery pack!
I have never seen such dedication to creating a UA-cam video. Awesome.
I love this series! Name me an ICE vehicle that can start right up in cold soaked like that and drive immediately away with NO issues????
Look up Mitsubishi Mirage started up at -30C...
Literally every ICE car ever made? They don't drive EVs in Siberia.
Bro, why don't you go walgreens and just by some black mittens.
The older Leaf turned its battery heater on, which drained the battery to about 25%. It then shut it off and the battery froze.
Im unsure if the second generation had its heater on, but just driving the pack a little will increase its temp. IT was at a pretty high temp for the ambient temps, so it might of ran it for a bit. The first few ticks of battery temp are small increments. I think 5 degrees. So it wouldnt be hard to drive it for a second and get another tick when its that cold.
Does the first gen Leaf have a battery heater?
@@anzew88 Depends on the model, but most do.
@@silvy7394 how does it work? The battery has no liquid to transfer the heat. I haven't noticed anything going on in my 30kWh Leaf when it was cold. It drove normally, no regen, but because I'm trying to preserve the battery I kept it at high SOC and charged it with at least 2 or 3 temp bars...
@@anzew88 Its heating element strips (essentially) that make contact with the cells. Its only 300 watts and turns on around 0F. 0F is when you have NO bars of temperature on the dash.
Its not enough to keep the pack warm or to really warm it up much, only to keep it from dipping any cooler
@@silvy7394 thanks
Didn't know that and I haven't found that information anywhere
The manual parking brake release on the 2010 to 2012 Leaf is in the boot, under the carpet.
Hi Kyle! Thank you so much for doing these experiments it’s very informative. Would you do a cold weather experiment with the Chevy Bolt?
I lived in Loveland for many years and moved to Orlando 13 years ago. I really really don't miss the snow one bit, and this video has verified this. 😁
I was in similar overnight -27C ambient temperature with my GV60 recently. The car was properly cold soaked parked outside, battery pack temp read -15C when I plugged into a DC charger and the car took 23kW right away. I thought this was painfully slow but it seems that it is quite fast compared to the model 3 and Leaf under similar conditions.
I would highly suggest driving the car to warm the car first, since the GV60 charging controller doesn't seem to be protecting the battery. You are running a very high risk of 'plating' and permanent loss of capacity with such high charging at such low temperatures.
Is actually a bad thing to charge an icy cold battery at that rate.
@@vigneshie Just with some background this is my 3rd Hyundai EV and have driven them in several severe Canadian winters over 100,000 km driven. The modern Hyundai EVs have high content nickel/cadmium NCM chemistry that are very tolerant to safe cold weather charging. At least in Canada most e-gmp EVs come with 6kW resistive PTC battery heaters that thermoregulate the pack and can precondition prior and during DC charging in severe cold. Driving the car does not add significant heat, I have monitored battery temps fairly extensively to comfortable state that. The BMS programming will allow the car to get as cold as -15C before it self protects itself with the PTC battery heater. Even at -15C pack temperature the BMS allow fairly reasonable regenerative breaking, it all comes down to the battery chemistry and I strongly believe cold weather charging is one of the strong advantages over the Tesla's and Nissan EV approaches with no real concern over battery longevity.
I'm guessing the battery heater on the old leaf kicked in while it was parked and that's what drained the high voltage battery. Maybe the newer one triggers at a lower temperature so didn't see the same range loss.
The manual does say if it's going to be really cold leave the leaf plugged into AC power to be safe.