Please don't stop rambling, I learn so much from your ramblings. My first job oput of the army was as a engineering technician for Analog Devices in Cambridge. Our incoming inspection division used to run every single transistor and FET through a screening program so devices could be specified by gain, bandwidth, and Vbe. Designers could specify exactly what their circuit needed. We could also screen devices for their noise figure so a designer could control the noise levels of an input stage.
Thanks for the info Fat Rat, I'll keep that in mind..!! I was keen on getting a pair of Ohm Walsh speakers but got nowhere on that front, it'll take me quite a while to save up the funds anyway. Cheers mate..!!
i really like the idea behind midbass coupler, i notice with my bookshelf speakers and subwoofer that higher i set my subwoofer low pass the more impressive and big my system sounds. same effect with bigger main speakers, bridge the gap to subwoofer you could say. current subwoofer cant play higher than 120hz, but i can adjust the slope but that dont sound very good lower than 18db pr octave. had a huge diy subwoofer in my youth that had 200hz upper limit, it really messed up the sound to my tower speakers but felt like a nightclub and hit like a truck. there is something special when you get dual 15" playing 100hz to 200hz that most people wont experience at home. especially with hifi quality sound.
Please, please tell me you are going to continue with the adjustable mid-bass coupler. My wife suffers from a hearing loss in the mid-range. This leaves her with a real problem with voices in any audio/video. To be able to bring up that mid-bass to help her hear that range better would be GREAT!
More on those speakers please...and great it has its own volume adjustment...200hz is rhe most complicated zone. can easily mud everything. I like to keep it a bit down.
Now we need to see the custom manufacturing that Chris came up with to develop his own driver...no trade secrets of course. Fascinated by the thought of producing a speaker in house.
Taking on designing a specific driver strikes me as a wee bit narcissistic and illadvised for most. There are so many drivers out there manufactured by companies who have been doing it for decades. Surely, something amazing already exists which you can implement. Very rarely do brain boxes like Vandersteen, the Ryan brothers, or Wilson exist where they're competent enough to design from scratch. Really, Chris Brunhaver is up to the task of designing from scratch and Scanspeak and Seas don't have what he needs? That's very impressive if true but I'm a tad worried. Even monitor companies like ATC and PMC buy stock drivers or work in coordination with manufacturing companies they've been dealing with for years. Paul and Chris haven't really built speakers, nor do they have a relationship with a manufacturing firm to perfect unique drivers.
@Fat Rat I mentioned those companies. Those companies will even manufacture your own unique design, but unless your order is big enough or you have a working relationship established, they won't really help you if you happen to design something quite flawed and illogical. Most likely Chris, Paul, and Darren will design the driver. They appear to all be working on these speakers and helping each other since no one is an experienced expert speaker designer. And Scanspeak or another similar company will make what they designed knowing that it has glaring flaws which the PS audio designers couldn't have imagined. I think PS Audio is biting off way more than they can chew or is necessary at this point. Designing your own drivers is the next step after you've proven you can implement good products, which already exist, into your design. This is adding significant cost when there will most likely be no pay off. For the average UA-cam viewer, they'll hear unique drivers and think, "oh cool, these will be great." But these speakers will live and die based on what Stereophile and The Absolute Sound has to say. These speakers are at a price point where casual consumers need not apply. They will have to both sound good and measure quite well. I'm worried about the latter. Serious buyers won't shell out major bucks if they measure extremely poorly, because they'll know if they do happen to sound good it must be highly dependent on the room and equipment setup. Measurements are not everything, but you have to be within an acceptable range to be taken seriously. Designing drivers from scratch could compromise this. Where does one even begin to design a driver when you haven't even designed speakers? What angle and shape should the cone be? What material and where should it be used? Where and what glue should be used to achieve a certain weight? Are the desired Thiele parameters achieved even though the sound is off? Is having a good tone ok if the Thiele parameters are not achieved? They are entering into a giant buzzsaw. I don't think they're aware. And they could even design a perfect driver and it tests beautifully but only at a few angles and/or distances. They could even design the best drivers ever, but they don't work with any of their other drivers due to slight tonal differences. This also happens.
@Fat Rat I think the magazines will be quite nice to Paul and Co and use flowery language to praise them, but they do post measurements. And these speakers carry a hefty enough price where those who have that type of money do geek out on the raw measurement side of things. Magico, comes to mind. Tonally they're ok and a bit sterile, but boy do they measure very well. They even sound precise and unshakeable. And the price they charge reflects that audiophiles care a lot about the test data. Below $10,000 you can have a speaker which sounds good in certain setups and will sell quite well despite having poor measurements. Above that price and the geeks will use the measurements to crush you. You're right. Scanspeak won't create garbage or poor quality but they won't hold your hand if you insist on a product run that doesn't quite work in your own design.
@Fat Rat They'll probably be generous because they respect the ethos of PS Audio and enough of PS Audio's products to not be overly harsh even if his first attempt at speakers turns out to be not exactly A rate. That's my guess. You do earn leeway and patience the longer your track record of success is. It's not fair, but in one sense it is. They have a track record of usually getting it right. Imagine if I designed my first product and it's an absolute dud. I would deservedly earn a review intended to destroy me because I'd appear as a hack and possibly even a fraud.
Why are you using the word coupler? I see a tweeter driver, mid-range driver, mid-bass driver and woofer driver. If that is being used because it couples the mid range and woofer then you also have a mid-range coupler to couple between the tweeter and the mid-bass driver. Doesn't every 4-way system then have a midbass coupler? If I have bookshelf based 2.1 set up and say a 150hz crossover setting then I changed the woofer to a subwoofer coupler, coupling the tweeter to the bass driver. I get the marketing aspect and attempt at product differentiation which of course is very important.
It's because the driver's use is not traditional. 3-way systems are common and their driver complement established with names like tweeter, midrange, and woofer. But the addition of a 4th woofer to couple the top of the woofer to the bottom of the midrange can be confusing and certainly not traditional. The name that got adopted reflects its functionality.
Sir i am thinking Fo designing and building My own custom speakers and your help.i need know about which instrument or equipment is used to measure so or noise i mean how much decibels and frequency response and range and which Brand would be better plz let me know Sir
Well Paul I'm so excited about your current speakers in the one that are going to be newly designed what that new genius speaker designer / Arnie Nudell I wish him great look in your company hopefully he will be a Legend also and end up being one of your best friends just like Arnie best wishes Steve Costello
I love that Thumbnail! Reminds me of peoples faces when confronted with my interests xD ... this ribbon reaches the area of 300Hz? Amazing!! I thought more like 600 ^^ To dedicate the workload from ~500 toHz ~4000Hz to domes or even ribbons seems very interesting to me.
That Frequency range above the Bass and below the Midrange is the weakest spot of all speakers today! Something about the old Bob Carver Platinum Amazing loudspeakers that I miss is it was GRAND in that area! 150hz - 500hz must be as full and rich as possible yet why so many speaks today fail to me with all the Bass/Treble boosters...Because that is what sells! Everyone likes pounding bass and clean highs yet forget their missing that hole at low mid that's missing...
scarabeo500gt that’s actually the area I work the hardest in any of my builds to make the fullest sounding as the other ranges are pretty easy to dial in.
visually, i much prefer this design over the current one shown at RMAF. but here is my main heartache..... the sub gets its own 700 watt amp. the couplers get their own 700 watt amp. that leaves only the tweeter & midrange in need of my BHK. isnt that _tremendous_ overkill?
The sub gets 700. The rest get the other 700. I'm guessing the midbass cooupler gets 350, the mid gets 250, and the tweeter gets 100. I could be wrong, but 700 watts for a midbass coupler is nuts.
@Fat Rat The sub is active with its own amplifier built in. The rest is powered by a single amplifier of your choosing and it's all passively crossed over. You could probably pull the bridge bars and actively control the tweerer, mid, and/or midbass coupler. But this could void warranty if you set your active DSP crossover to something rediculous which would tax the tweeter and mid or the usual protection circuit on the tweeter. It does appear like he's pointing to the midbass coupler, but I think he was referring to the subwoofer when he points and says "woofer." The wattage break down wouldn't make sense to throw 700 watts at a subwoofer and another 700 watts at just one small midbass coupler. Although it could be in his design philosophy that the low mids must have beyond ample power to achieve clean dynamic range.
I am so confused here. what I think you mean by what you are saying is that you have a 4way speaker. Tweeter, Midrange, Woofer, and Subwoofer. But what you sound like you are saying is you have a Tweeter, Midrange, Midbass coupler, and Subwoofer. Am I missing something? Is this like an Appleesque branding tool? Midbass coupler does take more syllables to pronounce than woofer I suppose. I mean why make up a new term to describe something that is already described. Yes you are not using the full range of the "woofer" because it is not driving the "subwoofer" frequencies. But that doesn't change what it is. It is a woofer that is suited for operation likely between 20hz-2000khz. If I am not following could you please expand on what makes your Midbass coupler any different than a woofer?
..beautiful speakers...but..such a powerful woofer on the side,...this needs a huge breathing space,...finding a suitable space to keep this unit could be an issue ...
I was thinking why don't you make the ribbon because it's open-ended isn't it on your new speak hollow tube all the way through to the back would be a better way. Well I don't believe that's just bs, you can easily over extended a driver having too much power yes you can control it with electronics but the actual physics of the driver can be extended past its overhang point
I expect the amplifier has a limiter designed in to prevent it from going into clip. The driver would need to have a power handling that exceeds that by a decent margin. There's plenty of 12" woofers in the car audio world that can comfortably sit at over 1000wrms and deal with the heat.
Your excitement is infectious 😄
Please don't stop rambling, I learn so much from your ramblings.
My first job oput of the army was as a engineering technician for Analog Devices in Cambridge. Our incoming inspection division used to run every single transistor and FET through a screening program so devices could be specified by gain, bandwidth, and Vbe. Designers could specify exactly what their circuit needed. We could also screen devices for their noise figure so a designer could control the noise levels of an input stage.
Thank you for sharing with us in Blighty
I watched this twice and along the way rewrote my audio component "bucket list"
I really, really hope they will be available here in Australia..!!
Thanks for the info Fat Rat, I'll keep that in mind..!! I was keen on getting a pair of Ohm Walsh speakers but got nowhere on that front, it'll take me quite a while to save up the funds anyway. Cheers mate..!!
I come for the rambling and stay for the technology. Thanks, Paul, for visiting me and spending some time.
i really like the idea behind midbass coupler, i notice with my bookshelf speakers and subwoofer that higher i set my subwoofer low pass the more impressive and big my system sounds. same effect with bigger main speakers, bridge the gap to subwoofer you could say.
current subwoofer cant play higher than 120hz, but i can adjust the slope but that dont sound very good lower than 18db pr octave. had a huge diy subwoofer in my youth that had 200hz upper limit, it really messed up the sound to my tower speakers but felt like a nightclub and hit like a truck.
there is something special when you get dual 15" playing 100hz to 200hz that most people wont experience at home. especially with hifi quality sound.
Please, please tell me you are going to continue with the adjustable mid-bass coupler. My wife suffers from a hearing loss in the mid-range. This leaves her with a real problem with voices in any audio/video. To be able to bring up that mid-bass to help her hear that range better would be GREAT!
Paul Could you do a series on explaining ribbon speakers
Don't worry about ''the rambling'',i think it makes your videos more personable.Thanks.
More on those speakers please...and great it has its own volume adjustment...200hz is rhe most complicated zone. can easily mud everything. I like to keep it a bit down.
I have Dynaudio speakers, and they design all the drivers themselves. And they design the crossovers themselves.
My mouth is watering with anticipation......hope I win the lottery.
Now we need to see the custom manufacturing that Chris came up with to develop his own driver...no trade secrets of course. Fascinated by the thought of producing a speaker in house.
Taking on designing a specific driver strikes me as a wee bit narcissistic and illadvised for most.
There are so many drivers out there manufactured by companies who have been doing it for decades. Surely, something amazing already exists which you can implement.
Very rarely do brain boxes like Vandersteen, the Ryan brothers, or Wilson exist where they're competent enough to design from scratch.
Really, Chris Brunhaver is up to the task of designing from scratch and Scanspeak and Seas don't have what he needs? That's very impressive if true but I'm a tad worried.
Even monitor companies like ATC and PMC buy stock drivers or work in coordination with manufacturing companies they've been dealing with for years.
Paul and Chris haven't really built speakers, nor do they have a relationship with a manufacturing firm to perfect unique drivers.
@Fat Rat I mentioned those companies. Those companies will even manufacture your own unique design, but unless your order is big enough or you have a working relationship established, they won't really help you if you happen to design something quite flawed and illogical.
Most likely Chris, Paul, and Darren will design the driver. They appear to all be working on these speakers and helping each other since no one is an experienced expert speaker designer. And Scanspeak or another similar company will make what they designed knowing that it has glaring flaws which the PS audio designers couldn't have imagined.
I think PS Audio is biting off way more than they can chew or is necessary at this point. Designing your own drivers is the next step after you've proven you can implement good products, which already exist, into your design.
This is adding significant cost when there will most likely be no pay off. For the average UA-cam viewer, they'll hear unique drivers and think, "oh cool, these will be great." But these speakers will live and die based on what Stereophile and The Absolute Sound has to say. These speakers are at a price point where casual consumers need not apply. They will have to both sound good and measure quite well. I'm worried about the latter. Serious buyers won't shell out major bucks if they measure extremely poorly, because they'll know if they do happen to sound good it must be highly dependent on the room and equipment setup.
Measurements are not everything, but you have to be within an acceptable range to be taken seriously. Designing drivers from scratch could compromise this.
Where does one even begin to design a driver when you haven't even designed speakers? What angle and shape should the cone be? What material and where should it be used? Where and what glue should be used to achieve a certain weight? Are the desired Thiele parameters achieved even though the sound is off? Is having a good tone ok if the Thiele parameters are not achieved? They are entering into a giant buzzsaw. I don't think they're aware.
And they could even design a perfect driver and it tests beautifully but only at a few angles and/or distances.
They could even design the best drivers ever, but they don't work with any of their other drivers due to slight tonal differences. This also happens.
@Fat Rat I think the magazines will be quite nice to Paul and Co and use flowery language to praise them, but they do post measurements. And these speakers carry a hefty enough price where those who have that type of money do geek out on the raw measurement side of things.
Magico, comes to mind. Tonally they're ok and a bit sterile, but boy do they measure very well. They even sound precise and unshakeable. And the price they charge reflects that audiophiles care a lot about the test data.
Below $10,000 you can have a speaker which sounds good in certain setups and will sell quite well despite having poor measurements. Above that price and the geeks will use the measurements to crush you.
You're right. Scanspeak won't create garbage or poor quality but they won't hold your hand if you insist on a product run that doesn't quite work in your own design.
@Fat Rat They'll probably be generous because they respect the ethos of PS Audio and enough of PS Audio's products to not be overly harsh even if his first attempt at speakers turns out to be not exactly A rate.
That's my guess. You do earn leeway and patience the longer your track record of success is. It's not fair, but in one sense it is. They have a track record of usually getting it right.
Imagine if I designed my first product and it's an absolute dud. I would deservedly earn a review intended to destroy me because I'd appear as a hack and possibly even a fraud.
Midrange is my favourite child the other 2 are just after my attention
Sound Engineers have a saying, "70% of the mix is in the middle."
Why are you using the word coupler? I see a tweeter driver, mid-range driver, mid-bass driver and woofer driver.
If that is being used because it couples the mid range and woofer then you also have a mid-range coupler to couple between the tweeter and the mid-bass driver. Doesn't every 4-way system then have a midbass coupler? If I have bookshelf based 2.1 set up and say a 150hz crossover setting then I changed the woofer to a subwoofer coupler, coupling the tweeter to the bass driver. I get the marketing aspect and attempt at product differentiation which of course is very important.
It's because the driver's use is not traditional. 3-way systems are common and their driver complement established with names like tweeter, midrange, and woofer. But the addition of a 4th woofer to couple the top of the woofer to the bottom of the midrange can be confusing and certainly not traditional. The name that got adopted reflects its functionality.
CAN YOU SUGGEST A GOOD PRE AMP or DAC for my CROWN XLS 1502 amp
Sir i am thinking Fo designing and building My own custom speakers and your help.i need know about which instrument or equipment is used to measure so or noise i mean how much decibels and frequency response and range and which Brand would be better plz let me know Sir
Well Paul I'm so excited about your current speakers in the one that are going to be newly designed what that new genius speaker designer / Arnie Nudell I wish him great look in your company hopefully he will be a Legend also and end up being one of your best friends just like Arnie best wishes Steve Costello
WoW Awesome Video !!!! Thanks Paul Love all your videos I learn Sooo Much !!!! Have a Great Day !!!! :o)
I love that Thumbnail!
Reminds me of peoples faces when confronted with my interests xD
... this ribbon reaches the area of 300Hz? Amazing!!
I thought more like 600 ^^
To dedicate the workload from ~500 toHz ~4000Hz to domes or even ribbons seems very interesting to me.
That Frequency range above the Bass and below the Midrange is the weakest spot of all speakers today! Something about the old Bob Carver Platinum Amazing loudspeakers that I miss is it was GRAND in that area! 150hz - 500hz must be as full and rich as possible yet why so many speaks today fail to me with all the Bass/Treble boosters...Because that is what sells! Everyone likes pounding bass and clean highs yet forget their missing that hole at low mid that's missing...
scarabeo500gt that’s actually the area I work the hardest in any of my builds to make the fullest sounding as the other ranges are pretty easy to dial in.
visually, i much prefer this design over the current one shown at RMAF.
but here is my main heartache.....
the sub gets its own 700 watt amp.
the couplers get their own 700 watt amp.
that leaves only the tweeter & midrange in need of my BHK.
isnt that _tremendous_ overkill?
The sub gets 700. The rest get the other 700. I'm guessing the midbass cooupler gets 350, the mid gets 250, and the tweeter gets 100.
I could be wrong, but 700 watts for a midbass coupler is nuts.
@Fat Rat The sub is active with its own amplifier built in. The rest is powered by a single amplifier of your choosing and it's all passively crossed over. You could probably pull the bridge bars and actively control the tweerer, mid, and/or midbass coupler. But this could void warranty if you set your active DSP crossover to something rediculous which would tax the tweeter and mid or the usual protection circuit on the tweeter.
It does appear like he's pointing to the midbass coupler, but I think he was referring to the subwoofer when he points and says "woofer."
The wattage break down wouldn't make sense to throw 700 watts at a subwoofer and another 700 watts at just one small midbass coupler. Although it could be in his design philosophy that the low mids must have beyond ample power to achieve clean dynamic range.
I incorrectly named mid bass couplers "woofer midranges" when I was young :/
Kef, B&W, Focal, Canton, Elac, Dynaudio makes their own speaker drivers.
I am so confused here. what I think you mean by what you are saying is that you have a 4way speaker. Tweeter, Midrange, Woofer, and Subwoofer.
But what you sound like you are saying is you have a Tweeter, Midrange, Midbass coupler, and Subwoofer.
Am I missing something? Is this like an Appleesque branding tool? Midbass coupler does take more syllables to pronounce than woofer I suppose. I mean why make up a new term to describe something that is already described. Yes you are not using the full range of the "woofer" because it is not driving the "subwoofer" frequencies. But that doesn't change what it is. It is a woofer that is suited for operation likely between 20hz-2000khz.
If I am not following could you please expand on what makes your Midbass coupler any different than a woofer?
Billy Woodman had this idea back in the 70's.
In this speaker, a super important part of it... I think people underestimate the importance of 100 to 400 hz.
We are not satisfied with those looking like in the 70' last century speakers as well Paul . :-).
..beautiful speakers...but..such a powerful woofer on the side,...this needs a huge breathing space,...finding a suitable space to keep this unit could be an issue ...
beautiful ??? LOL.
Cool design, music is midrange.
I was thinking why don't you make the ribbon because it's open-ended isn't it on your new speak hollow tube all the way through to the back would be a better way.
Well I don't believe that's just bs, you can easily over extended a driver having too much power yes you can control it with electronics but the actual physics of the driver can be extended past its overhang point
I expect the amplifier has a limiter designed in to prevent it from going into clip. The driver would need to have a power handling that exceeds that by a decent margin. There's plenty of 12" woofers in the car audio world that can comfortably sit at over 1000wrms and deal with the heat.
@@chrisvinicombe9947 yes it is a possibility
Okaaaaay.
WHAT THE FRIDAYS
Harman rolls their own drivers.
Admitting your speakers were garbage until hiring this new guy is a step in the right direction.
I don't believe that's what I said or meant.