This is Breaking the Meta...
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- Опубліковано 6 вер 2023
- I am just now getting aroudn to trying out Loki and WOW he is SO GOOD! Maybe a little too good... the meta at higher ranks (and maybe all ranks) has just turned into Loki mirrors. It seems that basically whoever has the most Lokis ends up winning. Quinjet - Collector - Loki is pretty much a snap worthy hand. Snowguard is also great with the recent rework! I'm planning on making an anti-loki deck here soon!
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#marvelsnapcreator - Ігри
What I would do to balance Loki: Release Mobius M. Mobius
But what if I just play Möbius and Loki?
@@jewellgrEnemy mobius still counters you
I think if both have mobius they will negate each other just like the daredevil interaction but we will still see.
@@rodneyconcha2973 Based on the wording I doubt it'll be quite the same as Daredevil, it'll be more like card costs can't change AT ALL, up or down. But your suggestion is still possible.
@@rodneyconcha2973Naw, Mobius specifically says your opponents costs can't be reduced and yours can't be increased. If both players have one, neither player can increase or decrease their costs. Seras wouldn't do anything, Death would always cost 8 for either player, wave wouldn't do anything, etc.
Agent Coulson: 3/4 Add 2 cards to ypur hand or something
Loki: 3/5 add up to 7 cards to your hand with each of them costing 1 less 🤨
You don’t add cards you replace the cards you have in hand, so if you have 3 cards in hand you only get 3 cards from your opponents starting deck. You have to have 7 cards in hand to replace your hand with 7.
Well no Coulson adds a 4 cost and a 5 cost. He allows great tempo even for bad draws.
Loki you're replacing your hand (including any cards that you might want to keep like Shangchis or Dinos etc) with cards from the enemys *starting deck* meaning you also don't get any buffs they received during the game. So you do have to think about what the opponent has to determine what turn is the best to play Loki or if it's good to play him at all (except on 6 for Collector).
@@Woozie87 I know that of course. I was just comparing their effects because they serve pretty much the same purpose
@@ROFLWAFFLELAWL4 I mean yeah obviously...
@@tomekk.1889 No they dont, Coulson adds cards, loki replaces. 2 completely different concepts
They could try to limit Loki's on reveal to once per game. Or make him a 4 cost. Also, has anyone been seeing Elysium pop in a lot more since the season start? I swear, I've seen it every 3 games on ranked.
But then zabu turn 2 right?
@@nagisa3523but that makes it less easy to pull off. A combo of 2 cards is a nerf opposed to using just 1 card
@@nagisa3523 more or less, if you want to run Zabu. And if you're running Zabu then you'd kinda want to play a bunch of other 4 drops, which would drop some power to collector since your card generation is dropped for Shang, enchantress, darkhawk etc. Another fun idea would be for Loki to not copy cards from the starting hand. Or if the opponent plays a card that was copied by Loki, then the copy is destroyed/discarded.
Yes! And that one that fills your hand with random cards. Had to check twice it wasn't a featured location
Or psylock@@nagisa3523
Your one of my favorite snap players to watch. love the content and your growth. keep up the good work sir!!!
Loki killing the fun I had of finally playing a negative deck. Instant Retreat.
How come? Loki cant copy your negative cards, he copies the starting cards in your deck. Meaning the ones you just put into your deck before playing, not the ones currently in your deck in play.
@@ManoloRibera070that and when loki copies they get less cost which makes the power less for the oppoent, kinda anti-loki strat lol
negative counters loki (along with HE, Sauron, Thanos Control)
Loki is buuuusteeeed. I hit Infinite yesterday (so less than 2 days of the season being out) and after the patch there was no other choice but to play a Loki deck. EVERY SINGLE game above 93 was a mirror match.
A lot of people ran into Loki back to back, but I didn’t after getting into the 90s. I got infinite without playing Loki and I don’t think he’s even close to the only competitive option right now.
@@jordanherget4453 I never said he was the only option though. I just said he's busted. I actually gained the most cubes (net of around 100) with negative surfer.
At the 80s ranks I went 26-2 when I first played Loki. Was insane.
Win rate has slowed down a lot though due to mirrors and the pattern of play being telegraphed.
I do quin, collector, colsen to get more cards, Wong, then Loki on the same location as Wong...
It's hard to pull off so I added a bunch of other cards that buff collector incase I cant along with dino. So If I can't play Loki I play dino and if I can't do either all my other cards generally have a high base power.
Not yet sure about Dino. I was thinking to keep him in because it opens up a line of play like Dino T5, Coulson and Loki T6, which would leave you with a strong Dino and extra buffs on your Collector. But you do find yourself getting rid of Dino with Loki a lot, and thinking maybe you should focus more on stuff that buffs Collector or techs like Shadow King or Armor.
Almost everything become 1,2 cost is too much to handle
Waiting so long for Snapsters video :( love you ❤
Pretty sad that I didn't pick up snow guard because she was terrible... Wait...😂 Anyway yeah Loki's going to rain for a few weeks and then Mobius will hit and it should bring him right back in line, but for these next few weeks it's going to be crazy crazy. Side note he should definitely be like a 3-4 maybe even a 3-3 with how powerful the effect has become
Yeah his stat line is good. However, when Mobius comes out and his effect isn’t super potent then the 5 stats is good to have.
Fitting for the god of mischief lol 😈
Loki players will run Mobius too to negate the other mobius lol
Mobius will drop lokis winrate by 1% lol
Drop to a 3/4 and make a “backend” change that it excludes itself from the possible cards it generates from your opponent’s deck.
Or just dont play loki if you don't want silly mirrors. Loki cant copy loki if he isnt in your deck.
I couldn’t focus on the games the quinjet variant animation had my attention
“Repeating of course”
Iconic moment of gaming
Running a discard to attack Loki decks like yondu wong mystic gambit absorbing black bolt silver samurai
Everyone said the same thing about HE on release. Mr Neg, HE decks are great counter decks Vs Loki. Yes he’s strong rn but so freakin fun 😂
HE was nerfed several times lol
I like this deck. I think it's a fun deck. It can pump out some serious power. I also think it highlights the current issue with Snap. It gets just ravaged by destroy. I do not understand how a deck that contains 9 of the 20 most played cards according to snap fan continue to go just absolutely unchecked. It's sad.
Loki actually feels so bad to play against. I went against an opponent who literally didn’t play a single card from their deck other than Loki and still won. It literally punishes you for having a good deck like old leader used to. It needs an immediate rework because I’m done with marvel snap until then.
Same, I'm not coming back until they fixes Loki's ability.
I just mentioned that on a forum. Loki is like playing Sera and Leader at the same time and even better if you already had Quinjet and/or Zabu down. It also has a small Modok effect, in that it can buff Collector the same way Modok buffs Morbius. Loki can do all of this for just 3 cost and also has 5 power, which is great by itself. They need to remove the cost reduction effect entirely, that way you HAVE to have Quinjet/Zabu for it to be good instead of broken. Should also be a 4 cost at least.
I played Ramp Sandman and took like an hour and a half to infinite. Around 90% win rate, just destroyed all the Loki decks and combo in the meta.
Deck?
# (1) Nebula
# (3) Electro
# (3) Magik
# (3) Wave
# (4) Absorbing Man
# (5) Sandman
# (5) Black Panther
# (5) Aero
# (6) Arnim Zola
# (6) Doctor Doom
# (6) Odin
# (6) America Chavez
Same here man. Quick question, did you notice a drop in Loki decks when you started running Sandman? I know I sure did.
Thanks
@@glengaines4286 I started the season off right away with the deck because I figured it would perform well. Had mostly a mix of Loki and Wong decks with some HR. Every now and then I'd go against a Sera control.
I need this deck ASAP
You know what’s fun to play against Loki?
Cerebro 3.
got infinity under 2 days using LOKI. very fun :D
Great video
I think Loki becomes a 3/3 - he reminds me of when High Evo was originally a 4/6 before release. The 3/5 body for the effect is crazy. Mobius counters hard but can see him dropping to 3/3 next week as a starter to balancing him.
Yeah he's a 3/5 right now that gives +3-5 for Collector and pretty much guarantees a +10 on Devil Dino, I could see DD getting a hit to where it's only a +1 per card and they change Devil Dino to a 4/4 or a 4/5 to compensate
@@StevenTLawson Devil Dino is the last card that needs to be modified. Loki doesn't really boost Dino outside of playing against another Dino deck. Collector/Loki is where it's broken.
With the bounce nerfs and now Loki my favorite and only accessible deck is dead and buried along with my play time lol, I know bounce is cheap but I built my own decks and did well till they needed it into the floor😢 the beast, kitty, monkey nerfs all hit my deck really hard and this makes it impossible
Loki needs a nerf or two, but a lot of suggestions I've seen seem too far, such as making him 0 power or completely removing the cost reduction.
Some possible nerfs I think could be reasonable (not all at once):
Lowering his power by 2 to 3 would probably be impactful but not completely destroy the card. He shouldn't be providing as much on board value when he gives so much value in cost reduction.
Adding the (minimum 1) limitation to his reduction would put him in line with Quinjet, Zabu, and Sera, cards that can potentially reduce more than their cost. (I don't think all cost reduction effects need that minimum, Beast is fine for example, since he can reduca at most 3 and costs 3 himself).
Making him 4 cost would slow him down, and make his potential output lower by giving you one less turn to work with if you play him on curve. Zabu could reduce him if played on curve, but then you not only need to get lucky and draw them in the correct order, you also won't have as many cards in hand to replace since you spent your turns setting up rather than filling up your hand.
Making Loki unable to pull himself is probably a necessity.
I've been having a lot of fun playing with him so far. I'm a recently returned player that hadn't played for something like half a year, and I'm climbing pretty quickly (started at 13 and now I'm at 56 in less than a day). I know my pace is going to slow down as I face better opponents, but I'll still probably hit infinite for the first time thanks to variants of this deck.
It's so bad I am taking a few weeks off till it's balanced.
Peace!
\o/
Any suggestions for a replacement for Snowguard. Snowguars being useful was not on my Snap bingo card.
You could either use that slot for Moon Girl or if you want a cheaper card you could go for Agent 13 or maybe a Maria Hill. Snowguard now allows for consistent location control with her changes but you don't absolutely need her.
Agent 13 or Nebula
Your C3 beat Loki thanks so much
He's extremely fun. I'm on board with those that think he Is fine. Maybe a 3/4 instead would be okay too. If they nerf him into the ground I'll be really upset.
He's so worried about Shang, when the opponent only has HIS CARDS lol. You get used to loki mirrors after awhile
Yes and no, snapster used loki which gave him shang-chi, which means the opponent has shang-chi in his deck, yes the opponent also used Loki but that doesn’t mean he can’t draw into shang-chi that turn or the next ones, so he still has to play around it.
@@everardoalcauter8243 Loki was re triggered on turn five by Odin, and they likely drew Chavez on 6
Loki is absolutely cracked and I expect a quick nerf turn around time.
not when the money's involved 💸
@@paulkanja I learned my lesson from Zabu never again
The natural Loki counters SHOULD be high evo decks, Mr Negative, and Sauron decks. Mobius M Mobius won't be available to the general ladder. Loki can now fuel Collector to double digits, and zero cost cards are always broken. Break the Collector connection, and make cost reduction to (minimum 1).
Idk people were saying the same thing as nebula when she released
i miss the pre-Steam layout haha
what would be a good alternative for snowguard in this deck?
Agent 13
Any replacement for SnowGuard?
Who would you replace mirage with
I think the collector+Loki interaction is the bigger problem. Make Loki’s wording “transform your cards into one’s that stated in your opponent’s deck and make them cost 1 less,” which would mean Collector doesn’t see cards “added” to hand since they’re transformed in the hand. It also would probably be fair to add (minimum 1) to Loki, to limit some of the quinnjet Loki stuff. I really think once collector’s interaction with Loki is changed, Loki also gets more interesting since he isn’t just run in handsize decks.
That would absolutely ensure no one plays him, right now he shuffles your current hand into your deck if he transformed your cards, you'd lose them. Loki doesn't have a problem with his interaction with Collector, you just have a skill issue when dealing with non-destroy decks.
Me just casually cooking Loki with Shuri high evo and Thanos.
I prefer the version with Jeff and cosmo instead of mirage and Crystal. Cosmo is fundamental for all those galactus/Alioth players.
What overlay is this?
Great video. Waiting for a video or recommendation without mirage and snowguard
just play shield agent, or sentinel
Play rocks with Loki jet collector and you'll do fine
Loki will be nerf to a 4-cost for sure, lmao
If we wanna nerf him to the ground, Loki should trigger only once per game, stats should be 3-3 or 4-3 and cards should not cost 0 (minimum 1) should be added.
But all this changes together can kill the card
Honestly? I'm not even convinced that would kill the card.
Loki would still tear people apart unless they have their own Loki or Mobius, since Loki's still playing their deck, but better.
Roll it back a week when everyone said Loki would be a meme card.
Got Infinite already with him. I have only gotten infinite twice before (near the end of previous seasons). He is broken.
I think it helps that SnowGuard is also kinda busted now... especially with Loki and collector.
Loki should probably ‘transform’ the cards into the hand rather than adding them.
Right, it's the add effect buffing Collector that makes Loki pretty broken. Otherwise, Loki wouldn't be that strong of a card. Loki becoming the meta is also contributing, because by playing Loki you're mostly getting your own deck back for cheaper.
@@VaultBoy13 It's the cost reduction that's making him strong. He's like Sera and Leader in one since you can play your opponents cards against them, plus more since it's cheaper. Remove the cost reduction.
Loki has made Snap fun to play again.
Fun for those who bought the season pass, he op as hell
Yeah it's really fun playing Quinjet on 1, Collector on 2 and then playing Loki to copy your opponenets Loki and then just play Loki over and over again until one of you wins.
this deck is so easy to beat with invi+modok+hela. love that everyone is playing this and its an easy 8 cube for me
People saying mobious, it’s wild when a who meta needs to try and counter 1 card too much power needs to be 4 cost and cards can’t be dropped more than 1 in energy cost
Snap is at the same state it was, when zabu released... a pay the pass to win game and it is just sad
Alright yeah SD milks people for a strong card and then nerfs it but pay to win is just not true lol.
Loki is great and a little over tuned, so what? Run a counter. Shang, sand man, shadow king, professor X. Everything will be alright my friend lol.🥳
@glengaines4286 I see your point, but do not agree, making a card explicit to sell game pass and hiding a meta defining card behind a payroll is pay to win, in my opinion.
Honestly every deck not running loki right now is worse than the ones using it and having to play something to counter a card is just a lazy way to cover a bad company choice
@@Geugenio Oh I see what you mean. Yep I do agree with that! They know what they are doing before release lol. I took it as you haven’t been able to win against Loki decks, my fault.
But that’s the whole idea behind “counter cards” right? You don’t have to run them but can’t be bummed when you can’t counter someone’s deck. I see both sides I guess, SD has been called out a lot for low, predatory tactics but on the other hand, this is a business and the goal is money. Hopefully thing work out so everyone is happy.🙂
If they do anything before MMM, they will make loki a 3/3 and if he still good, then a 4/5
Laughs in shang chi & Shadow king
A card or combo of cards should never be able to reduce the cost of a card(s) to zero, ever. That’s way too broken.
I threw shadow king into my own loki deck to get to infinite against this deck destroys angela kitty and their collector
this is the meta
id keep Lokis cost and power but instead of your entire hand being replaced id max it out at 3 cards
so are you dekkster or snapster ? which oneeee
You mean he is BREAKING THE GAME!! Because he is OP af , Idc what anyone says!
Loki needs to be nerfed! Its toooo OP
No
You won 42 games, and lost 14, that is a 75% win rate, not 66.6%.
42+16=56
42=3/4 of 56
Mana cheat is good? Who would have through that was a thing
Who did he say “you cant be here” too 😭
mobius would counter loki pretty well, but i genuinely think 5 power is too much for him. its like way too much power for having a crazy powerful ability. when you put him next to deathlock its hard not to see the power creep...
I'd revert collector back to a 2/1 and either reduce Loki to a 3/3 or make it so he only reduces the cost of the first 2 cards that get put into your hand
Collector isn't the issue, Loki is, he needs the nerf
@@abhinandhari7812 idk, I think we're starting to hit a critical mass of cards that synergize really well with him, so while he's not that strong individually, you have to look at the card pool as a whole and see how things interact. It's like absorbing man needing to be nerfed to 4 power because of his interactions with brood/sinister. I could also be biased towards collector based on the hot location that was getting him up to like 30 power with Loki
THE PROPELLERS SPIN???????????????????
Okay love you videos dude but don't talk about Loki you know you know they watch your UA-cam videos you start talking about him they're going to nerf him within the next couple weeks and I'm going to be pissed but that only thing I would change with Loki if it had to be changed was the cost maybe a 4/5 instead of a 3/5Loki is just too good of a card not including the collector was one of my favorite when I first started out and I haven't been able to play him effectively but now with Loki the desk is almost unbeatable you can either beat the opponent with your own deck or with their own deck it's wonderful
Neat
sir, that winrate in fact isnt just good, its broken!
It's Zabu all over again! 😂 Regardless of Mobius coming out, Loki definitely needs to be nerfed to a 4 cost 3 power and only copy 2 cards max. Hit infinite way too quickly with Loki. 😂. I was only 30 ranks away though since I started the season at rank 70. Marvel Snap better not wait till Mobius comes out to nerf, LOL!
That’s a harsh nerf, my god.😂
Season pass formula: Make a Season pass OP , more profit , then nerf it
@@glengaines4286 with Zabu he will still be pretty good.
i miss snowguard's ⚠ effect, it was so pretty
Wait they removed it?? :(
They might add it in a month or two maybe?
I wouldnt play crystal or cable thats for sure.
Why snowguard?
She draws 2 cards my guy.
Loki needs to be 4 cost
Remove him from the game 😅
I think it’s fine to have an op card like this if I’m honest
He boosts collector to a fairly decent state, maybe if you want to nerf him limit it to 2 times per game
You'd have to unnerf Zabu to really have a deck that competes with Loki. It's fine to have tier 1 decks, tier 0 decks like Loki are a problem.
If a 2/8+ with no downside and tons of synergy is "decent" than every other card in the game (besides Angela) is dog-shit.
Get real, the stats on the deck are clearly overtuned and the Collector synergy is what breaks it.
@AtillaTheSean I agree the stats are overturned, but, legit, even if Collector was deleted from the game, Loki seems insane with Quinjet, or even by himself.
I think the problem here runs a lot deeper than just Collector.
I'd honestly be surprised if people are still playing this game in a month.
No Burk yes he beyond broken
Drop to a 3/3 to nerf it and only high cost cards
Loki should have *minimum 1* treatment
Loki should have power reduced.
As much as I’m enjoying the new cards insane power, it’s getting to the boring point. Already got infinite and a gold ticket with Loki. It’s so strong.
I really miss the diversity of the pre Loki meta.
I don’t think Loki needs a nerf. I think Mobius M Mobius coming it’s fine, plus, he’s just basically a cheaper, less power MODOK for The Collector, who’s basically Morbius in this analogy. It’s fine. It becomes problematic because most people are playing Loki decks and getting multiple Loki’s to build Collector, potentially multiples of Collector, makes it feel more problematic than it is.
Pay-to-win at its finest
lets not freak out about how good it is until the meta adjusts (playing Tribunal and Cerebros seem to do well vs Loki) and/or Mobius gets released. The stats say it isnt overtuned, most saying its running around 55-ish WR. at least let us abuse it for a month COPIUM
Would love to see the best Loki counter, sad that every Ytber is always running the same shit.
Bynx has a counter up
ua-cam.com/video/Ow5_B1Y10Tc/v-deo.htmlsi=1vevimUsUTBKucbB
Loki will get nerfed, collector getting up to 40 power? 2-40 is broke lol
In my personal opinion, I simply don’t think Loki is that OP. I think that with Shuri decks and Destroy decks being out there, in my opinion the power that this deck possesses is not nearly enough. This is a luck deck through and through and it is a nice change of pace. It’s like a refreshing Shield/Collector/Dino deck. In my experience when this loses, it loses HARD. But that’s just me. I’m probably the minority 😂 (I forgot to mention that I’m in Iron? right now and playing against whatever I’m against is not Loki decks. This deck is really the most effective against a deck just like it. Again, at least in my opinion)
No, I agree. I think people are freaking out a little too much. I’ve been running shadow king and that’s won me a LOT of games against Loki. People freak out everytime a decent and popular card releases.
@@jordanherget4453 I’m just sad cause I see all this hate for this card and all I can think about is how my favorite decks all got nerfed and this is the ONE that I simply don’t think reaches nearly as many heights. And I KNOW it’s gonna get nerfed. I think it’s also just cause I’m somewhat bad at the game and so when there’s a deck that is fun and exciting and off the wall, it refreshes the game for me 😂 (but seriously thanks for the reply, your comment alone makes me feel better 😅)
@@TopThrillNagster loki is probably the most op card there ever was - and i only played him since he came out - i have an over 80% winrate its just insane good - my agents deck was good before he came out now its just insane
almost 65% winrates being reported, not sure where you can even argue against loki being broken with that in mind
make loki a 4/3
The mechanic just shouldn’t exist. They nerfed beast because he lowered cards costs but then release Loki who lowers MORE cards costs. Losing to your own deck but better is not fun. Sure it’s fun to play it yourself but wasn’t galactus also fun to play? Lol sure mobius would drop Lokis win rate by 1% big deal
Loki single handily ruined the game for me. Was a great meta and now it’s just RNG fiesta. Hopefully mobius fixes this.
and the "loki will be mid" comments are still fresh lol. the snap community just doesnt know how to judge upcoming cards, we almost always get it wong. kinda makes it more fun
Loki is op? Shadow king exist and mobius wil be release soon
Loki can easily be countered
Agatha counter loki
Shang chi counter loki
Cosmo counter loki
I'm already so sick of Loki, this is Spider-Ham all over again because I truly feel they did not play test this card at all. They need to nix that Collector interaction because it's impossible to beat a head-start of a 2/8 and a 3/5 once they fill their hand with a full hand from your deck and get a free invisible Sera. I'm just not playing until something changes because the Loki deck absolutely dumpsters everything besides High Evo and Negative, two decks I don't enjoy to begin with. It's absolutely soul-crushing to be trying to build a deck and have to scrap every good cheap card because Loki is going to steal it and play it for cheaper, there's no counterplay to that besides "run a deck that is bad without one specific synergy" which is always going to be a boring deck. Even Sandramp gets beaten by the Collector/Loki head-start into your own ramp cards at a discount.
Oh you’ll play… you’ll play and you’ll like it!
@@RFHYLAND I'll play 20 minutes a day for my dailies, but I definitely won't like it.
All these people playing shang chi for the mirror getting him stolen and losing because of it...
O honestly don’t get why y’all putting opponents deck if it isn’t conquest…
First
Everyone crying out for Loki. He’s fine. Brainless AFK High Evo is still the worst decks out there
They should make it so you can't Loki a Loki.
How does that stop anything? That’s a very high roll condition. Let’s say SD makes that change. Does Loki’s average output change? Nope
@@jordanherget4453 It does not stop him in general, but the mirror matches would be more bearable.
lower power and not be able to copy himself
Loki cant copy loki if you dont play him. Its a fun season card so everyone is playing the card they just bought. Stop crying 😂