I was lucky enough to go to Portugal about 10/12 years ago with the intention of visiting the Lines. I agree most of the forts were not mentioned and I spent a week armed with maps and a compass and had a great time wandering around looking for them. That gave a real feeling of both sides and being an ex squaddie walking wasn't a problem lots of photographs (some of which went into my lecture on earth works) and memories, also went to Vimeiro, O'Porto and on to Badajoz.
@@redcoathistory Now I think on it,C S Forester had a novel,Death to the French,which in fiction covers the period and the locale. Well worth reading ,used paperbacks are readily available by mail.
Well done, very accurate about the "linhas de Torres Vedras" it still a symbol for us, lord Wellington was not a only the best general he was also a good architect.
@@joaoconchilha2231 Oi Joao, Como voce esta?, Sou Ingles. Eu estive aprendendo seus Portuguese idioma por mais do 2 anos agora. mas, eu escrever o pior do que eu posso falar kkkkk. I love your Country and to find out that we as nations have maintained an alliance for over 600 years is something I find to be quite special. I just visited at this Christmas and new year. Lisboa is wonderful, all the transportation is fantastic. Uma perguntar - what is the best place to start from if I wanted to caminhar? a train from 'Orient station' to? and are you involved in any history societies there? kind regards muito obrigardo
@@redcoathistory Testicular fortitude! strong balls! ha ha funny, great channel, great content, did you do a video of the journey story of the split force that went west with the other withdrawing north to Coruna! I've been looking but cant see a link?! thanks
The very name "Torres Vedras" is a derivation of the name given to the lands by the romans - "Turres Veteras", meaning ancient towers or ancient fortifications. Wellington saw what the romans saw in terms of defensive potential.
As much as there is to attribute to Wellington's military genius, he wasn't the one who saw that defensive potential of the geography of the region. The one who's to be attributed said fact is the portuguese Brigadier Jose Neves Costa, of the Royal Engineering Corp of the Portuguese Army. He is the patron of the Army's Geographical Institute, and his relative absence from history is completely undeserved, as he is the "father" of most modern relevant military cartography. He was the one who approached Wellington with the clear defensive capabilities of the terrain, and vouched for Lisbon's defensibility through a deterrent geography and fortifications. Sir Wellington "only" validated the Brigadier's idea and went on to order the engineering of the fortifications to engineer Sir Richard Fletcher.
Another great episode, wish I had known that so much of the lines still existed years ago and I would have had a few visits by now. Brought home to me just how much of a strategic thinker and a planner Wellington was.
That was an excellent program explaining the lines and Wellington’s mindset. What a leader he was and as usual he was fighting on two fronts, the government back home and the French in front. You could say there was a third made up of his own officers who failed to recognise what an advantage he had presented them with. Fascinating!
To fight a battle, to WIN a battle, without even fighting, husbanding your resources and driving your enemy away with minimal loss or stores, men or morale. Damn sir, that's soldering! (As Sharpe would say)
Proof if proof were needed that Wellesley was a genius. A most interesting podcast and one that beacons me to visit them. I am just going to join the Friends of the Lines of Torres Vedras. At £20 it will be worth every penny. Stay well Chris!
I first read about these defences many years ago and was quite astonished to learn about the magnitude and efficiency of the work as well as the foresight involved. I was then surprised to find out how little information about them was available, maybe because they did the job superbly and very few lives were lost on either side. This, for me, is very interesting. Thank you for uploading
Great video, but almost nothing Wellington ever did was merely 'lucky' he was much to switched on to be merely 'lucky'. The lines were firmly based on Napoleon's idea of his armies mostly 'living off the land', ie, looting.
I live in a village very near the Atlantic just a few hundred meters north of the river/brook that defines the western part of the 2nd line (Rio Safarujo). Not only are there a lot of hills and valleys in the region (mostly defined by small rivers that flow to the Atlantic) but the 2 rivers that define the lines (Rio Safarujo and also Rio Sizandro for the 1st line) have the peculiarity that, to the north, the slope of the valley is quite smooth, while the south bank is much steeper. It just makes so much sense to use them as strategic positions. That is also why there was more work done in the eastern part of the lines, nearer the Tagus (and where Sobral de Monte Agraço/Alenquer/Alhandra are located), because they don't have the well-defined valleys that provide a natural barrier, even if they have a lot of hills. It also explains why the French army took the route it took, and why Pêro Negro (whis is also just a village in the middle of the Peninsula) made perfect sense as the location of Wellington's HQ.
@@redcoathistory please do! When I was little I remember one day going to the top of those hills and believing you could see "all of Portugal" from there. Not by far of course, but still an impressive defensive position
Absolutely wonderful! Important descriptive info on the Torres Vedras lines and a true insight into Wellington's military tactics in defending Lisbon from the French. Many thanks Mark and Dr Thompson. I will join the " Friends of Linhas de Torres Vedras."
@@redcoathistory Dear Mark, recently came back from Bussaco. Fascinating. Managed to find the strategic point in the Anglo/Portuguese lines; " The Sula windmill where " Black Bob" Major General Robert Craufurd held off numerous attacks from the French. The military museum in Bussaco, although quite small is great too !
Lekker history! I'm a South African / Portuguese dual national (living in Somerset, UK). I tripped across your channel recently and have been amazed by the amount of knowledge you've shared on a topic that is merely a small note in portuguese history teachings. A quirk of those times was that even if Lisbon was invaded, Portugal couldn't capitulate as the capital had been shipped (no exaggeration) to Rio, in Brazil. It was the only time in history an European country had a capital outside of the region. No small thanks to the Royal Navy, though it came with concessions, like direct trade between the UK and Brazil
Wellesley (later Wellington) had the nerve to be lower in rank than some others [initially at least] but know what he was doing, whereas others had purchased high rank without having a clue about strategy, tactics, logistics etc. Brings to mind the old saying 'Do you want to talk to the boss, or the one who knows what's going on?' Wellesley when he progressed in rank combined both.. others of his era not so much which is one reason he stood out. I think the Lines of Torres Vedras are a perfect example of his logistical ability. Fall back and make the enemy stretch his supply lines, knowing he cannot live off the land /and/ the Spanish guilleros were already attacking the supply lines.
As with so many cases of join military/civilian retreat,I have never understood why,if such a grave and present threat to life exists,such retreats are so typically characterised by the impediment of "civies" causing chaos confusion and inconvenience by hauling the day to day encumbrances of every day life.If an army is on your tail like the hounds of hell,what exactly is the grip the kitchen table holds on refugees.
I just discovered your program, I binged your previous Peninsular War episodes just yesterday. I've read the Sharpe series and found your presentation adds effectively to Cornwell's stories. Well done. Question: Did you get the Kronk shirt at the gym in Detroit, Michigan? Next time you're in town let this old infantry platoon sergeant know, we can hoist a pint of Guinness. Carry on.
Hi Don, great to hear from you and I'm glad you are enjoying the podcast/videos. I wish I had been able to visit the Kronk but sadly I just ordered online. I used to box as an amateur and still train and spar with the younger guys so wearing that shirt keeps me motivated. I live in South Africa but my brother is in New Jersey so if I do get over to the US - I'll let you know, I'm always in the market for a Guinness with a former infantryman.
I think Mark Thompson is mistaken about lines and their use in the Napoleonic wars. Commanders were familiar with their usage as for example they were widely used 100 years earlier during the War of the Spanish Succession . In deed one of the Duke of Malbrough's great feats of generalship was his easy passage through the Lines of Ne Plus Ultra in in 1711. Although used less in the French revolutionary and Napoleonic wars than they had been 100 years before they were still used to defend obvious choke points (in a way similar to the American defences in the Fulda Gap during the Cold War). Two reasonably well know ones used by the French were Lines of Weissenburg and the lines the French dug to impeed Wellington's advance into France in 1814. The lines of Weissenburg were originally constructed in 1706 during the War of Spanish Succession. During the War of the Austrian Succession the loss of the Lines by the French played a pivotal role in the campaign of 1744. They were used by the French in 1793 and again under General Rappe in 1815. Some of the fortifications played a part in Battle of Wissembourg (1870). To defend France from invasion from Spain in 1813, Marshal Soult's army (of about 79,000), were in three entrenched lines, stretched from the sea in front of Saint-Jean-de-Luz along commanding ground to Amotz and thence, behind the river, to Mont Mondarrain near the Nive. Wellington breached the lines in a series of manouevres known as the Battle of the Nivelle, (10 November 1813). Before the advent of railways the length of the lines were limited by the distance the reserves could march, as given time the attacker could overwhelm the defences and so if the reserves had too far to march, they could not plug a breach in time.
@@redcoathistory history_dot_stackexchange_dot_com/questions/38768/what-were-the-lines-of-ne-plus-ultra-in-the-war-of-the-spanish-succession Malbrough had an even better record then Wellington. Malbrough never lost a battle, or failed to take a place he stormed or besieged. Personally I think the people in the link above underestimate how clever his penetration of the lines of Ne Plus Ultra was (the phrase means "No Further") the link is brief and informative with mention of books with more details on the lines) .
The Lines of Torres Vedras not only defended Lisbon, they were the last line of defense for London. Wellington knew this and in fact writes about it, referring to how much Londoners anxiously feared Napoleon's invasion by sea, after the conquest of Lisbon, nothing prevented the invasion. After all, the Atlantic between Lisbon and London is easy and quick to cross.
@@redcoathistory Because not even the WWII D DAY advanced from Calais! With Lisbon, Napoleon would benefict of the many Portuguese ships, afterall Portugal had one of the best navies in the world at the time, he would recover "batteries" in Lisbon, not only in energy, but also economic, because Portugal was the richest or one of the richest countries in the world and that would be a great "doping and moral" for the French. After that, he would organize the assault, he had everything, except Britain. In the letters of Wellington about the atrocities in Portugal, he wrote how the Londoners were very affraid, waiting for the Napoleon invasion. Even if he didnt went directly from Lisbon to London, in geographic therms, for sure in time, that would be the right moment.
Napoleon is said to have declared at Mont St Jeanne " You can see he is no student if Caesar"! How wrong he was. Caesar and the Siege of Alesia and Fabius " The Delayer", who's " Scorched Earth " policy almost destroyed Hannibal's army. Wellington would have been well versed it the " Classics" as an integral part of his education common to his class!
Torres Vedras. Wellington had no intention of leaving Portugal. I can only imagine the shock the French must have felt upon seeing theme for the first time ! MERDE" Bugger all to eat either.
Portugal had many epic battles throughout its history and sometimes without the help of the British, but I recognize that during the period of the Napoleonic invasions Portugal without the help of the British and especially Wellington, the country was conquered. British and Portuguese have to be grateful to each other forever.
Does it help you anymore if I buy the book direct from you, or should I do it through Amazon? Thinking about cutting out the middle man if that's an equation sir. Loving your work and looking for direct ways to help you produce more.
Hi Robin, many thanks for asking and for thinking of me. The truth is that either option is fine - Amazon take a cut but atleast it just gets paid to my bank account. The other option has to go to Paypal which is a bit of pain. I would say just do what is best for you. If you aren't alresdy signed up for my mailing list over at redcoathistory.com then joining the list will help me moving forward. Thanks and speak soon, Chris.
Using what remains of the Lines, could a CGI simulation be constructed to illustrate what the original lines looked like? It's one thing to read a description and try to imagine them, but another to actually see them.
Be modest. Napoleons defeat meant the Holy inquisitions resurection, as she was liquidated by the French Emperor in the peninsula from the very beginning of his intervention.
These lines and forts already existed in great percentage, before Wellington or Napoleon, or anyone believe that the British would built dozens of stone wall forts, castles and humdreds km of walls in a short time?
There would at least always have been an off chance that the french Would be halted. at Bussaco. The withdrawal would always have been an option, but had the french had a disaster not just a defeat then he wouldn't have needed to pull back.
I feel that the only Americans to hear of the pennisular war are those who have read Sharpe I am american but a proud Brit at heart and of British decenst I am actually defended from Robert the Bruce.
@@redcoathistory Simple!!! he's main interest wasnt saving Portugal...it was preventing Spain and France from taking Portugal (the best navy at the time) and obliterate England...
@@Zamo14 I think you don’t know history brother. Spain was on the side of England and Portugal. Portugal is Britain’s oldest ally. PS while the Portuguese Navy is an important asset the British Royal Navy was the most powerful in the world at the time. I’m surprised to meet a Portuguese person attacking the British as we were very close allies and still are.
You lose my respect the moment you use Spanish names in place of Portuguese ones. It's not that I care either way, but it speaks to the sloppiness of the researcher. If you can't get something as simple as someone's name correct, ie. using a neighboring countries dialect instead of the one that you profess your expertise, then what other details did you miss? That said, it was over-all informative.
To me Wellington was a mouse that could come out of the portuguese s-spanish border at Rodriguez and badoz to run around in spain til the cat(French) chased him back in. By 1812 the French held everywhere but Lisbon and Cadiz.
Well whatever you may think of his strategy I think there is no doubt that it worked and is a textbook example of how a much smaller army can disrupt and eventually defeat a larger force.
@@redcoathistory yes, because the French had to disperse there army so often wellington held battlefield numbers. when the French formed up, back to Lisbon Wellington went. By the time he did move across Spain into france, didnt he then hold the numbers advantage at the battles like Victoria? I think so. Napoleon needed the troops in spain after his failed invasion of Russia, and defeats in germany. Only then could Wellington really do anything. I would say its part of the pie that ends napoleon but it by no means is the biggest. The navy really played a bigger role then any British Army in hurting napoleon and the French. Wellington did well in spain. Great general. Overall the land army of Spain was pretty trivial to anyone but you British when looking at it fairly. 200,000 thousand French troops died in spain. That sounds like a lot til you add in that was over 7 years. It also includes sick and non battle related deaths. The battle deaths are equal to one decent size battle per year. The French had little problems getting new troops. They could just draft more. 30,000 a year half maybe in battle wasnt a big strain on French logistics either.
But by the end of 1813 the French only held parts of Catalonia and Wellington was into France, ending the war capturing Toulouse on 12 April 1814. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campaign_in_south-west_France_(1814) Tsar Alexander I of Russia called Wellington "Le vainqueur du vainqueur du monde" (the conqueror of the world's conqueror) at the Congress of Vienna just before the Waterloo Campaign.
@@theodoresmith5272 you are right about the Royal Navy. As Admiral Earl St Vincent said about the danger of a French invasion of England a few years earlier to the House of Lords: "I do not say the French can't come, I only say they can't come by sea."
@@firstlast7052 by the end of October france had lost all of Poland and Germany to. The battle of the nations was in mid October and France and Paris itself was under pressure. Spain was a side show or napoleon himself would have addressed the problem.
I was lucky enough to go to Portugal about 10/12 years ago with the intention of visiting the Lines. I agree most of the forts were not mentioned and I spent a week armed with maps and a compass and had a great time wandering around looking for them. That gave a real feeling of both sides and being an ex squaddie walking wasn't a problem lots of photographs (some of which went into my lecture on earth works) and memories, also went to Vimeiro, O'Porto and on to Badajoz.
Sounds like my sort of trip!
@@redcoathistory It does indeed armed with maps and compasses and a rucksack of drink (remember i'm an ex squaddie) it would be a great trip :>)
@@redcoathistory Now I think on it,C S Forester had a novel,Death to the French,which in fiction covers the period and the locale. Well worth reading ,used paperbacks are readily available by mail.
Well done, very accurate about the "linhas de Torres Vedras" it still a symbol for us, lord Wellington was not a only the best general he was also a good architect.
Thanks a lot Joao
@@redcoathistory you're welcome, I hope one day you will come here, for English people it's like home.
@@joaoconchilha2231 I would love to visit and hike the lines. I live in South Africa tho so it may be a long time before I save up enough money...
@@joaoconchilha2231 Oi Joao, Como voce esta?, Sou Ingles. Eu estive aprendendo seus Portuguese idioma por mais do 2 anos agora. mas, eu escrever o pior do que eu posso falar kkkkk. I love your Country and to find out that we as nations have maintained an alliance for over 600 years is something I find to be quite special. I just visited at this Christmas and new year. Lisboa is wonderful, all the transportation is fantastic. Uma perguntar - what is the best place to start from if I wanted to caminhar? a train from 'Orient station' to? and are you involved in any history societies there? kind regards muito obrigardo
@@redcoathistory Testicular fortitude! strong balls! ha ha funny, great channel, great content, did you do a video of the journey story of the split force that went west with the other withdrawing north to Coruna! I've been looking but cant see a link?! thanks
I just discovered this channel last night and now I'm binge-watching. Excellent work and fantastic guests
Thanks a lot. I'm glad that you are enjoying it. Please help to spread the word.
The very name "Torres Vedras" is a derivation of the name given to the lands by the romans - "Turres Veteras", meaning ancient towers or ancient fortifications. Wellington saw what the romans saw in terms of defensive potential.
I didn't know that about the name. Thanks for sharing.
@@redcoathistory I’m from Torres Vedras and I can also tell you that Torres Vedras was once called Torres Velhas wich means “Old Towers”
As much as there is to attribute to Wellington's military genius, he wasn't the one who saw that defensive potential of the geography of the region.
The one who's to be attributed said fact is the portuguese Brigadier Jose Neves Costa, of the Royal Engineering Corp of the Portuguese Army. He is the patron of the Army's Geographical Institute, and his relative absence from history is completely undeserved, as he is the "father" of most modern relevant military cartography.
He was the one who approached Wellington with the clear defensive capabilities of the terrain, and vouched for Lisbon's defensibility through a deterrent geography and fortifications.
Sir Wellington "only" validated the Brigadier's idea and went on to order the engineering of the fortifications to engineer Sir Richard Fletcher.
Another great episode, wish I had known that so much of the lines still existed years ago and I would have had a few visits by now. Brought home to me just how much of a strategic thinker and a planner Wellington was.
Fantastic - glad you enjoyed it. Not too late...maybe a visit will still happen!
That was an excellent program explaining the lines and Wellington’s mindset. What a leader he was and as usual he was fighting on two fronts, the government back home and the French in front. You could say there was a third made up of his own officers who failed to recognise what an advantage he had presented them with. Fascinating!
The supreme art of war in the words of Strategist Sun Tzu, is to subdue the enemy without even fighting, and that’s what Torres Vedras achieved.
Exactly!
To fight a battle, to WIN a battle, without even fighting, husbanding your resources and driving your enemy away with minimal loss or stores, men or morale. Damn sir, that's soldering! (As Sharpe would say)
@@DidMyGrandfatherMakeThis Pyecroft NOT Sharpe!!
Proof if proof were needed that Wellesley was a genius. A most interesting podcast and one that beacons me to visit them. I am just going to join the Friends of the Lines of Torres Vedras. At £20 it will be worth every penny. Stay well Chris!
That’s wonderful - thanks for letting me know. I would also love to visit them one day.
I first read about these defences many years ago and was quite astonished to learn about the magnitude and efficiency of the work as well as the foresight involved. I was then surprised to find out how little information about them was available, maybe because they did the job superbly and very few lives were lost on either side. This, for me, is very interesting. Thank you for uploading
Thanks a lot - I'm glad you found it interesting. Fascinating stuff - I'd love to visit one day.
Excellent episode and I've watched it twice. I'm going to start the whole season again when I've watched all.
Fantastic, that is great news. Thanks for letting me know.
Great video, but almost nothing Wellington ever did was merely 'lucky' he was much to switched on to be merely 'lucky'. The lines were firmly based on Napoleon's idea of his armies mostly 'living off the land', ie, looting.
Thanks mate - I edited this a while ago - did we say he was lucky? I don't recall that line.
@@redcoathistory Your guest suggested Wellington was lucky to get back to Portugal.
This was legendary, but I also read a little of Mark Thompson's lines of Torres Vedras.
He really is an amazing expert 👍🏼
@@redcoathistory Agree.
Love this channel, my new favourite. Covers all my favourite historical interests . Brilliant.
Thanks, Thomas!
I live in a village very near the Atlantic just a few hundred meters north of the river/brook that defines the western part of the 2nd line (Rio Safarujo). Not only are there a lot of hills and valleys in the region (mostly defined by small rivers that flow to the Atlantic) but the 2 rivers that define the lines (Rio Safarujo and also Rio Sizandro for the 1st line) have the peculiarity that, to the north, the slope of the valley is quite smooth, while the south bank is much steeper. It just makes so much sense to use them as strategic positions. That is also why there was more work done in the eastern part of the lines, nearer the Tagus (and where Sobral de Monte Agraço/Alenquer/Alhandra are located), because they don't have the well-defined valleys that provide a natural barrier, even if they have a lot of hills. It also explains why the French army took the route it took, and why Pêro Negro (whis is also just a village in the middle of the Peninsula) made perfect sense as the location of Wellington's HQ.
Thanks. I'd love to visit one day!
@@redcoathistory please do! When I was little I remember one day going to the top of those hills and believing you could see "all of Portugal" from there. Not by far of course, but still an impressive defensive position
Absolutely wonderful! Important descriptive info on the Torres Vedras lines and a true insight into Wellington's military tactics in defending Lisbon from the French. Many thanks Mark and Dr Thompson. I will join the " Friends of Linhas de Torres Vedras."
That's great news!
@@redcoathistory Dear Mark, recently came back from Bussaco. Fascinating. Managed to find the strategic point in the Anglo/Portuguese lines; " The Sula windmill where " Black Bob" Major General Robert Craufurd held off numerous attacks from the French. The military museum in Bussaco, although quite small is great too !
@@trioaeternus That's brilliant - I am very jealous. PS my name is Chris.
@@redcoathistory Sorry ...yes of course it's Chris!!! My apologies
@@trioaeternus Ha ha no worries at all - appreciate you keeping in touch
Lekker history!
I'm a South African / Portuguese dual national (living in Somerset, UK). I tripped across your channel recently and have been amazed by the amount of knowledge you've shared on a topic that is merely a small note in portuguese history teachings.
A quirk of those times was that even if Lisbon was invaded, Portugal couldn't capitulate as the capital had been shipped (no exaggeration) to Rio, in Brazil. It was the only time in history an European country had a capital outside of the region. No small thanks to the Royal Navy, though it came with concessions, like direct trade between the UK and Brazil
Thanks Carlos / I’m glad you enjoyed it 👍🏼
Wellesley (later Wellington) had the nerve to be lower in rank than some others [initially at least] but know what he was doing, whereas others had purchased high rank without having a clue about strategy, tactics, logistics etc. Brings to mind the old saying 'Do you want to talk to the boss, or the one who knows what's going on?' Wellesley when he progressed in rank combined both.. others of his era not so much which is one reason he stood out.
I think the Lines of Torres Vedras are a perfect example of his logistical ability. Fall back and make the enemy stretch his supply lines, knowing he cannot live off the land /and/ the Spanish guilleros were already attacking the supply lines.
Thank you so very informative
Thanks for another very interesting presentation 😁👌👌👏👏👏❤️❤️
As with so many cases of join military/civilian retreat,I have never understood why,if such a grave and present threat to life exists,such retreats are so typically characterised by the impediment of "civies" causing chaos confusion and inconvenience by hauling the day to day encumbrances of every day life.If an army is on your tail like the hounds of hell,what exactly is the grip the kitchen table holds on refugees.
Portugal is a Defensive Generals Dream, Imagine having to face that Terrain against Modern Weapons.
"A frightening concept" is a polite way of putting it...
For some reason it's a small independent country in the corner of the European
Hussar mustache? Jolly good.
I remember cleaning Col Fletcher s monument some 25 years ago
No mention of him in the program , he was killed at San Sebastián
I just discovered your program, I binged your previous Peninsular War episodes just yesterday. I've read the Sharpe series and found your presentation adds effectively to Cornwell's stories. Well done. Question: Did you get the Kronk shirt at the gym in Detroit, Michigan? Next time you're in town let this old infantry platoon sergeant know, we can hoist a pint of Guinness. Carry on.
Hi Don, great to hear from you and I'm glad you are enjoying the podcast/videos. I wish I had been able to visit the Kronk but sadly I just ordered online. I used to box as an amateur and still train and spar with the younger guys so wearing that shirt keeps me motivated. I live in South Africa but my brother is in New Jersey so if I do get over to the US - I'll let you know, I'm always in the market for a Guinness with a former infantryman.
I think Mark Thompson is mistaken about lines and their use in the Napoleonic wars.
Commanders were familiar with their usage as for example they were widely used 100 years earlier during the War of the Spanish Succession . In deed one of the Duke of Malbrough's great feats of generalship was his easy passage through the Lines of Ne Plus Ultra in in 1711.
Although used less in the French revolutionary and Napoleonic wars than they had been 100 years before they were still used to defend obvious choke points (in a way similar to the American defences in the Fulda Gap during the Cold War).
Two reasonably well know ones used by the French were Lines of Weissenburg and the lines the French dug to impeed Wellington's advance into France in 1814.
The lines of Weissenburg were originally constructed in 1706 during the War of Spanish Succession. During the War of the Austrian Succession the loss of the Lines by the French played a pivotal role in the campaign of 1744. They were used by the French in 1793 and again under General Rappe in 1815. Some of the fortifications played a part in Battle of Wissembourg (1870).
To defend France from invasion from Spain in 1813, Marshal Soult's army (of about 79,000), were in three entrenched lines, stretched from the sea in front of Saint-Jean-de-Luz along commanding ground to Amotz and thence, behind the river, to Mont Mondarrain near the Nive. Wellington breached the lines in a series of manouevres known as the Battle of the Nivelle, (10 November 1813).
Before the advent of railways the length of the lines were limited by the distance the reserves could march, as given time the attacker could overwhelm the defences and so if the reserves had too far to march, they could not plug a breach in time.
Many thanks for your feedback. My knowledge of Marlborough’s campaigns is almost zero so this is new and fascinating info for me.
@@redcoathistory history_dot_stackexchange_dot_com/questions/38768/what-were-the-lines-of-ne-plus-ultra-in-the-war-of-the-spanish-succession
Malbrough had an even better record then Wellington. Malbrough never lost a battle, or failed to take a place he stormed or besieged. Personally I think the people in the link above underestimate how clever his penetration of the lines of Ne Plus Ultra was (the phrase means "No Further") the link is brief and informative with mention of books with more details on the lines) .
The Lines of Torres Vedras not only defended Lisbon, they were the last line of defense for London. Wellington knew this and in fact writes about it, referring to how much Londoners anxiously feared Napoleon's invasion by sea, after the conquest of Lisbon, nothing prevented the invasion. After all, the Atlantic between Lisbon and London is easy and quick to cross.
But why would they cross from Lisbon? France is a bit closer…
@@redcoathistory Because not even the WWII D DAY advanced from Calais! With Lisbon, Napoleon would benefict of the many Portuguese ships, afterall Portugal had one of the best navies in the world at the time, he would recover "batteries" in Lisbon, not only in energy, but also economic, because Portugal was the richest or one of the richest countries in the world and that would be a great "doping and moral" for the French. After that, he would organize the assault, he had everything, except Britain. In the letters of Wellington about the atrocities in Portugal, he wrote how the Londoners were very affraid, waiting for the Napoleon invasion. Even if he didnt went directly from Lisbon to London, in geographic therms, for sure in time, that would be the right moment.
Napoleon is said to have declared at Mont St Jeanne " You can see he is no student if Caesar"! How wrong he was.
Caesar and the Siege of Alesia and Fabius " The Delayer", who's " Scorched Earth " policy almost destroyed Hannibal's army.
Wellington would have been well versed it the " Classics" as an integral part of his education common to his class!
that's the first time I've heard Wellesley described as having 'bags of testicular fortitute'
I must see and walk the hills before I die. O and visit Assaye
Take a plane to Lisboa. Its a bit further north of lisbon. Now those fortifictions are in hills and in ruff terrain. But they are still there.
Torres Vedras. Wellington had no intention of leaving Portugal. I can only imagine the shock the French must have felt upon seeing theme for the first time ! MERDE" Bugger all to eat either.
That was just excellent - the good doc is an even better speaker than he is as a writer, and at that he is enthralling.
Glad you enjoyed it, he is back on the show in May to talk about the Battle of Albuera.
Portugal had many epic battles throughout its history and sometimes without the help of the British, but I recognize that during the period of the Napoleonic invasions Portugal without the help of the British and especially Wellington, the country was conquered. British and Portuguese have to be grateful to each other forever.
Does it help you anymore if I buy the book direct from you, or should I do it through Amazon? Thinking about cutting out the middle man if that's an equation sir. Loving your work and looking for direct ways to help you produce more.
Hi Robin, many thanks for asking and for thinking of me. The truth is that either option is fine - Amazon take a cut but atleast it just gets paid to my bank account. The other option has to go to Paypal which is a bit of pain. I would say just do what is best for you. If you aren't alresdy signed up for my mailing list over at redcoathistory.com then joining the list will help me moving forward. Thanks and speak soon, Chris.
Using what remains of the Lines, could a CGI simulation be constructed to illustrate what the original lines looked like? It's one thing to read a description and try to imagine them, but another to actually see them.
Makes me think of Kursk ww2..
Be modest. Napoleons defeat meant the Holy inquisitions resurection, as she was liquidated by the French Emperor in the peninsula from the very beginning of his intervention.
Hope you where there back them when the revolution would guilhotene you...take that as a litle revolutionaire.
These lines and forts already existed in great percentage, before Wellington or Napoleon, or anyone believe that the British would built dozens of stone wall forts, castles and humdreds km of walls in a short time?
Feel free to watch the video 👍🏼
Keep it.. "Sharpe" good Sir
shovel > pen > sword
There would at least always have been an off chance that the french Would be halted. at Bussaco. The withdrawal would always have been an option, but had the french had a disaster not just a defeat then he wouldn't have needed to pull back.
The Massena of the Swiss campaign would've had the Sepoy General as a light snack. By this time he was burned out and simply wanted to retire.
An interesting 'what if".
He had 65,000 men vs Wellington's 50,000 and still couldn't win.
I feel that the only Americans to hear of the pennisular war are those who have read Sharpe I am american but a proud Brit at heart and of British decenst I am actually defended from Robert the Bruce.
Nice one thanks a lot.
Cool.
You must be proud of, no doubt.
Yeah , course you are mate. So am I. And so is my postman. And his dog.
The French didn't invade Portugal again after seeing the Lines.
He saved himself from Spain and France...I got a brain!!
Good for you but I’m not sure what you mean.
@@redcoathistory Simple!!! he's main interest wasnt saving Portugal...it was preventing Spain and France from taking Portugal (the best navy at the time) and obliterate England...
@@Zamo14 I think you don’t know history brother. Spain was on the side of England and Portugal. Portugal is Britain’s oldest ally. PS while the Portuguese Navy is an important asset the British Royal Navy was the most powerful in the world at the time. I’m surprised to meet a Portuguese person attacking the British as we were very close allies and still are.
There is no R in peninsula.
There is boss - feel free to look it up before commenting...
👏👏👏
Thanks brother
Great show chaps!
@@UKCommandPost Thanks Mark
You lose my respect the moment you use Spanish names in place of Portuguese ones. It's not that I care either way, but it speaks to the sloppiness of the researcher. If you can't get something as simple as someone's name correct, ie. using a neighboring countries dialect instead of the one that you profess your expertise, then what other details did you miss? That said, it was over-all informative.
Gracias Senhor....
@@redcoathistory You proved a different point I had, unspoken, and I thank you for that!
@@redcoathistoryés palhacinho 🤡
To me Wellington was a mouse that could come out of the portuguese s-spanish border at Rodriguez and badoz to run around in spain til the cat(French) chased him back in. By 1812 the French held everywhere but Lisbon and Cadiz.
Well whatever you may think of his strategy I think there is no doubt that it worked and is a textbook example of how a much smaller army can disrupt and eventually defeat a larger force.
@@redcoathistory yes, because the French had to disperse there army so often wellington held battlefield numbers. when the French formed up, back to Lisbon Wellington went. By the time he did move across Spain into france, didnt he then hold the numbers advantage at the battles like Victoria? I think so. Napoleon needed the troops in spain after his failed invasion of Russia, and defeats in germany. Only then could Wellington really do anything. I would say its part of the pie that ends napoleon but it by no means is the biggest.
The navy really played a bigger role then any British Army in hurting napoleon and the French.
Wellington did well in spain. Great general. Overall the land army of Spain was pretty trivial to anyone but you British when looking at it fairly. 200,000 thousand French troops died in spain. That sounds like a lot til you add in that was over 7 years. It also includes sick and non battle related deaths.
The battle deaths are equal to one decent size battle per year. The French had little problems getting new troops. They could just draft more. 30,000 a year half maybe in battle wasnt a big strain on French logistics either.
But by the end of 1813 the French only held parts of Catalonia and Wellington was into France, ending the war capturing Toulouse on 12 April 1814. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campaign_in_south-west_France_(1814)
Tsar Alexander I of Russia called Wellington "Le vainqueur du vainqueur du monde" (the conqueror of the world's conqueror) at the Congress of Vienna just before the Waterloo Campaign.
@@theodoresmith5272 you are right about the Royal Navy. As Admiral Earl St Vincent said about the danger of a French invasion of England a few years earlier to the House of Lords: "I do not say the French can't come, I only say they can't come by sea."
@@firstlast7052 by the end of October france had lost all of Poland and Germany to. The battle of the nations was in mid October and France and Paris itself was under pressure.
Spain was a side show or napoleon himself would have addressed the problem.
Bit if a hater.