Be sure to do your research. Grand Design of late does not exactly have a stellar reputation when it comes to a quality build or customer service. Grand Design is made by Winnebago Industries. Watch the latest on Liz Amazing's channel regarding a couple that was really screwed over by Winnebago on a new Class A purchase.
Yes, we have noticed an increase in the length of these ads lately. We are going to try to tweak the settings to see if we can mitigate some of it. Thanks for pointing this out.
OK, with an OCCC of 1062 pounds there is a problem. If you have an average couple with 1 dog, that’s about 400 pounds. Say 20 gallons of water (to get from point A to point B) = 166.8 pounds. Assume a total of 10 gallons 1:07 in black and gray tanks = 83.40 pounds. LPG 20.3 lbs. That’s already a total of 670.5 pounds. You now have 391.5 pounds for ALL of your RV hoses/accessories, tools, ladder, chairs, rug, bedding, towels, clothing, shoes, kitchen equipment, electronics, groceries, and misc. Can you do it? Can anyone? What’s the point of having an RV, if your dogs bowl pushes you over the weight limit? Don’t know about the dangers of an overweight RV? Research it. It’s bad. Why do RV manufacturers insist on using these inadequate chassis? Kickbacks? Not to mention that a Mercedes chassis is expensive to service and repair. Can ANYONE explain this to me???? 1:07
Your post is a great example of the math that RV buyers need to be doing before selecting an RV. When the RV you want has a low OCCC you are always going to be doing a juggling act with what you bring with you on your trips. We are lucky that we tend to travel very light, and the OCCC works with our RV style. Thanks for your comment.
I like that there are plugs and USB ports on the overhead bunk. The glass washer!!! I love it. Alex doesn't understand it but he doesn't do dishes😅😅the bedroom seemed tight. We like the Murphy bed as well. The bathroom is very tight, and Alex is not a fan of the push button drain.
Yeah, that glass washer was really nice. We are on the same page on the Murphy bed and bathroom. We were scratching our heads at the drain. We weren't sure why it was necessary. Thanks for your post.
At this years Hershey show there was a lot of chatter that this was the number one selling RV at this years show. Although they had three of them there - you still had to wait in line to view them. I can attest you didn’t have to wait in line to see either LT’s or Views both of which had much higher MSRPs and way less OCCC’s.
We were fortunate that we found this at one of the smaller shows, so we basically had it to ourselves while filming. We did return to the show a couple of days later and saw many folks checking out this new model. We're not sure if the crowds you saw were because it was new or because of the quality and features, but we were really impressed with this first attempt by Grand Design. OCCC is such a huge factor in these Mercedes-based Class Cs. We're happy that we can help bring more attention this fact. Hopefully they will start posting the OCCC on the dealer and manufacturer websites, but we won't hold our breath.
Grand Design piece of crap! Why didn’t you talk about the slide mechanism? Door already stuck Frame Flex not stuck because it’s new. Explains your current situation.
We point out what we can. If we started dismantling some of the covers to look underneath, someone would have said something, maybe. Can you elaborate the issues with the slide mechanism, we hadn't heard there was an issue with the new unit, but we and our viewers would really appreciate the information. Thanks.
Since you are in Florida, have you seen Coach House? Could you do some tours and give your opinion? And did you consider a Coach House before buying what you have?
Yes, we did see some Coach House units at the Tampa Supershow earlier this year. They seemed high quality, but we weren't fans of the wood grain cabinets on the RVs we saw. We are hopeful we will find some of the new models so we can do a more in-depth review. Thanks.
About the refrigerator, as long as it is not an absorption refrigerator, it is good. There are no fins in the inside back wall, so this is not an absorption refrigerator. YAY. (I had the fridge fire.)
It looks very nice. Bathroom sink is even a usable size. Small bathrooms r fine, who spends a lot of time in them anyhow? Lol. I like it this rv, but i could never want a slide again, n your unfortunately experiencing just one issue slides can have. 🍻
We agree with your comment about the bathroom, but we have been totally spoiled by the size of the shower in our Wayfarer. After a long day of hiking, it is very nice to be able to maneuver our aching bones in the larger space. The issues we are having are the main reason Dan was trying to avoid a slide in the first place. He was very enamored with the Pleasure Way XLTS. Ultimately we took a chance on the slide so we could experience the much larger living space it provides. It seems that decision may be coming back to haunt us. Thanks for posting your once again, insightful point of view.
@@halffasttravelers2702 totally understand all your reasons for a slide! And for u guys it made sense, a little more elbow room. And yeah sure didn't expect this from a tiffin, n understand your thinking of y u choose them. But the way they r building these slides so big n heavy now, n the mechanism r so half-assed, it's one reason I had to stay clear away from slides. I'm empathetic to your situation, because it's the luck of the draw with a new rv today. 🍻
Thanks once again for your post. One of Dan's biggest concerns when we bought the Wayfarer was the size of the slide. We are hopeful that it will all work out in the end.
Thank you so much. We actually began this channel so Dan could share the videos of our travels with his mother more easily. She can no longer travel, and now she gets to experience these wondrous sights just as we do. We are so glad you are enjoying them.
As we were discussing the pros and cons of this RV, we did consider this as well. We totally agree that buying in the first model year is very risky. Thanks for posting this.
The biggest problem with the Lineage is the 4500 Sprinter chassis it is built on vs the 3500 chassis that most others use. It is questionable if an RV should be built on the 4500 chassis and thus far in 2025 models only Grand Design and a couple Thor models are the only one. Wish you had read the OCCC as would not be surprised if it was in the 2000lb range which more than resolves the issue of the low OCCC with the 3500. The 4500 with the stronger axels to handle the weight was designed as a local delivery truck option rather than an open road RV. The prblem is both the 3500 and the 4500 have the same GCWR rating of 15250 lbs, but with the higher GVWR in the 4500, the towing capacity drops from the 4220 lbs with the 3500 to a miserly 3125 lbs with the 4500. That eliminate all new Jeeps, Fords and all but one GM as TOADS. To GD credit, while they don't note any of it in the specifications, I've heard they put a 3500 lb class hitch on, while Thor maintained the 5000 lb class hitch - inviting trouble. Personally, I will take the 3500 chassis.
You make a really great point about the towing capacity. It makes sense that if the chassis weight increases and the GCWR does not, you will not be able to tow as much. That weight needs to be made up somewhere. The yellow sticker on the door indicated an OCCC of 1,062 lbs, but there is a clear caution that the weight of the water (291 lbs.) needs to be subtracted if you are traveling with a full fresh tank. We do tend to travel light and comfortably below our GCWR, but we never travel with a full tank just to be safe. Thanks for starting this conversation. Our viewers need to see it.
@@halffasttravelers2702 WOW! OCCC 1062 suggest an exceptionally heavy house build as the only other manufacturer (intentionally not mentioned) building on the 4500 chassis is posting OCCC of 2000+. Looking at Mercedes specs the unladen weight as delivered from the factory is only a 22lb difference between the 3500 and 4500 cutaway chassis and thanks to the heavier duty axels on the 4500 they were able to raise the GVWR from 11020 on the 3500 to 12125 on the 4500 which would equal a potential increase in OCCC of 1105 if the house build weight was equivalent on both chassis models. GVWR= factory delivered unladen + house build + OCCC that would be the yellow sticker posted on the door for the final OCCC. Towing capacity is always based on the weakest point which is not necessarily the hitch rating, but in the Sprinter case GCWR - GVWR and that is where the 4220 and 3125 difference comes in.
Everything you're saying makes a lot of sense. We did notice that the cabinetry was especially heavy duty, not to mention the inclusion of a large LP tank which is really heavy as well. The 600 watts of solar panels on the roof probably don't help either, and that weight is really high as far as the center of gravity goes. We recommend being especially careful driving this beast. In all fairness, it is a beautiful coach. Thanks again for sharing this post.
We are awaiting the furniture from the factory in Mississippi, and then we are being told the repair will be completed quickly. We're heading up to La Mesa this week to check on progress, and hopefully we will have an update after that. The good news is that both Tiffin and La Mesa have been reaching out to us on a regular basis to let us know they are on top of this. We are reassured by this.
Great Catch! Yes, there is a screen, but it is different from most RVs we have seen. Just inside the door on the forward side there is a retractable screen that slides out across the door. It has a similar operation to the shower sliding door. It is a really clever design, and we should have pointed it out. Thank you for being less half fast than us.
That may explain why the company has begun to manufacture Class C motor homes. Winnebago sells a ton of these units. We have heard that the Grand Design factory is in Amish country, and they touted the fact that many of their employees are Amish. We're not quite sure how much changed when they were acquired by Winnebago in 2016. Although we know they have been having frame issues with their travel trailers.
Sorry to hear that, we do our best to try to keep them moving to prevent that sort of thing. If travel videos are more in your interest, we have those as well.
![[UA] NAVI проти G2 Esports | Blast Premier Fall Final](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QWlIm4FGESQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Be sure to do your research.
Grand Design of late does not exactly have a stellar reputation when it comes to a quality build or customer service.
Grand Design is made by Winnebago Industries. Watch the latest on Liz Amazing's channel regarding a couple that was really screwed over by Winnebago on a new Class A purchase.
It seems that no manufacturer is immune to build issues these days.
@@halffasttravelers2702 True. But some back their product. GD does not apparently.
Junk
For us, the jury is still out...
I’ll be avoiding the grand design brand, I noticed for several years that their customers are not happy with their products
We are wondering how this corresponds with their acquisition by Winnebago in 2016.
I would not purchase a Grand Design ever!
why ?
Do you mind sharing your concerns?
Grand Design lol 😅 total shit!!
We are hopeful that the new models will not have the same issues as the travel trailers.
Something has to be done about the 2-3 minute ads UA-cam is doing.
Yes, we have noticed an increase in the length of these ads lately. We are going to try to tweak the settings to see if we can mitigate some of it. Thanks for pointing this out.
@@halffasttravelers2702 they have also blacked out the skip button. It will cause people not to watch your videos all the way through.
A paid UA-cam subscription does not have ads. Just sayin'. I have a paid subscription and it is heaven.
That's a great point.
OK, with an OCCC of 1062 pounds there is a problem. If you have an average couple with 1 dog, that’s about 400 pounds. Say 20 gallons of water (to get from point A to point B) = 166.8 pounds. Assume a total of 10 gallons 1:07 in black and gray tanks = 83.40 pounds. LPG 20.3 lbs.
That’s already a total of 670.5 pounds.
You now have 391.5 pounds for ALL of your RV hoses/accessories, tools, ladder, chairs, rug, bedding, towels, clothing, shoes, kitchen equipment, electronics, groceries, and misc.
Can you do it? Can anyone? What’s the point of having an RV, if your dogs bowl pushes you over the weight limit?
Don’t know about the dangers of an overweight RV? Research it. It’s bad.
Why do RV manufacturers insist on using these inadequate chassis? Kickbacks? Not to mention that a Mercedes chassis is expensive to service and repair.
Can ANYONE explain this to me???? 1:07
Your post is a great example of the math that RV buyers need to be doing before selecting an RV. When the RV you want has a low OCCC you are always going to be doing a juggling act with what you bring with you on your trips. We are lucky that we tend to travel very light, and the OCCC works with our RV style. Thanks for your comment.
I like that there are plugs and USB ports on the overhead bunk. The glass washer!!! I love it. Alex doesn't understand it but he doesn't do dishes😅😅the bedroom seemed tight. We like the Murphy bed as well. The bathroom is very tight, and Alex is not a fan of the push button drain.
Yeah, that glass washer was really nice. We are on the same page on the Murphy bed and bathroom. We were scratching our heads at the drain. We weren't sure why it was necessary. Thanks for your post.
At this years Hershey show there was a lot of chatter that this was the number one selling RV at this years show. Although they had three of them there - you still had to wait in line to view them. I can attest you didn’t have to wait in line to see either LT’s or Views both of which had much higher MSRPs and way less OCCC’s.
We were fortunate that we found this at one of the smaller shows, so we basically had it to ourselves while filming. We did return to the show a couple of days later and saw many folks checking out this new model. We're not sure if the crowds you saw were because it was new or because of the quality and features, but we were really impressed with this first attempt by Grand Design. OCCC is such a huge factor in these Mercedes-based Class Cs. We're happy that we can help bring more attention this fact. Hopefully they will start posting the OCCC on the dealer and manufacturer websites, but we won't hold our breath.
Grand Design piece of crap! Why didn’t you talk about the slide mechanism? Door already stuck Frame Flex not stuck because it’s new. Explains your current situation.
We point out what we can. If we started dismantling some of the covers to look underneath, someone would have said something, maybe. Can you elaborate the issues with the slide mechanism, we hadn't heard there was an issue with the new unit, but we and our viewers would really appreciate the information. Thanks.
Since you are in Florida, have you seen Coach House? Could you do some tours and give your opinion? And did you consider a Coach House before buying what you have?
Yes, we did see some Coach House units at the Tampa Supershow earlier this year. They seemed high quality, but we weren't fans of the wood grain cabinets on the RVs we saw. We are hopeful we will find some of the new models so we can do a more in-depth review. Thanks.
About the refrigerator, as long as it is not an absorption refrigerator, it is good. There are no fins in the inside back wall, so this is not an absorption refrigerator. YAY. (I had the fridge fire.)
It seems as if absorption refrigerators are on the way out, at least in these small Class Cs. The idea of an RV fire is so terrifying.
Enjoyed the vid. Love the cabinets and all the storage n windows. King bed ? Whoa baby
Glad u had fun oh liked the entire kitchen ⚓️
Thank you for the compliment. There was a ton to like in this RV.
It looks very nice. Bathroom sink is even a usable size. Small bathrooms r fine, who spends a lot of time in them anyhow? Lol. I like it this rv, but i could never want a slide again, n your unfortunately experiencing just one issue slides can have. 🍻
We agree with your comment about the bathroom, but we have been totally spoiled by the size of the shower in our Wayfarer. After a long day of hiking, it is very nice to be able to maneuver our aching bones in the larger space. The issues we are having are the main reason Dan was trying to avoid a slide in the first place. He was very enamored with the Pleasure Way XLTS. Ultimately we took a chance on the slide so we could experience the much larger living space it provides. It seems that decision may be coming back to haunt us. Thanks for posting your once again, insightful point of view.
@@halffasttravelers2702 totally understand all your reasons for a slide! And for u guys it made sense, a little more elbow room. And yeah sure didn't expect this from a tiffin, n understand your thinking of y u choose them.
But the way they r building these slides so big n heavy now, n the mechanism r so half-assed, it's one reason I had to stay clear away from slides. I'm empathetic to your situation, because it's the luck of the draw with a new rv today. 🍻
Thanks once again for your post. One of Dan's biggest concerns when we bought the Wayfarer was the size of the slide. We are hopeful that it will all work out in the end.
Hopefully it will not be called " Leakage " Series M 25FW after it rains.
Ha ha. We are definitely with you on that one.
I love your videos. I wish I could have done what you are doing.
Thank you so much. We actually began this channel so Dan could share the videos of our travels with his mother more easily. She can no longer travel, and now she gets to experience these wondrous sights just as we do. We are so glad you are enjoying them.
I'd never buy the first model year!
As we were discussing the pros and cons of this RV, we did consider this as well. We totally agree that buying in the first model year is very risky. Thanks for posting this.
The biggest problem with the Lineage is the 4500 Sprinter chassis it is built on vs the 3500 chassis that most others use. It is questionable if an RV should be built on the 4500 chassis and thus far in 2025 models only Grand Design and a couple Thor models are the only one. Wish you had read the OCCC as would not be surprised if it was in the 2000lb range which more than resolves the issue of the low OCCC with the 3500. The 4500 with the stronger axels to handle the weight was designed as a local delivery truck option rather than an open road RV. The prblem is both the 3500 and the 4500 have the same GCWR rating of 15250 lbs, but with the higher GVWR in the 4500, the towing capacity drops from the 4220 lbs with the 3500 to a miserly 3125 lbs with the 4500. That eliminate all new Jeeps, Fords and all but one GM as TOADS. To GD credit, while they don't note any of it in the specifications, I've heard they put a 3500 lb class hitch on, while Thor maintained the 5000 lb class hitch - inviting trouble. Personally, I will take the 3500 chassis.
You make a really great point about the towing capacity. It makes sense that if the chassis weight increases and the GCWR does not, you will not be able to tow as much. That weight needs to be made up somewhere. The yellow sticker on the door indicated an OCCC of 1,062 lbs, but there is a clear caution that the weight of the water (291 lbs.) needs to be subtracted if you are traveling with a full fresh tank. We do tend to travel light and comfortably below our GCWR, but we never travel with a full tank just to be safe. Thanks for starting this conversation. Our viewers need to see it.
@@halffasttravelers2702 WOW! OCCC 1062 suggest an exceptionally heavy house build as the only other manufacturer (intentionally not mentioned) building on the 4500 chassis is posting OCCC of 2000+. Looking at Mercedes specs the unladen weight as delivered from the factory is only a 22lb difference between the 3500 and 4500 cutaway chassis and thanks to the heavier duty axels on the 4500 they were able to raise the GVWR from 11020 on the 3500 to 12125 on the 4500 which would equal a potential increase in OCCC of 1105 if the house build weight was equivalent on both chassis models. GVWR= factory delivered unladen + house build + OCCC that would be the yellow sticker posted on the door for the final OCCC. Towing capacity is always based on the weakest point which is not necessarily the hitch rating, but in the Sprinter case GCWR - GVWR and that is where the 4220 and 3125 difference comes in.
Everything you're saying makes a lot of sense. We did notice that the cabinetry was especially heavy duty, not to mention the inclusion of a large LP tank which is really heavy as well. The 600 watts of solar panels on the roof probably don't help either, and that weight is really high as far as the center of gravity goes. We recommend being especially careful driving this beast. In all fairness, it is a beautiful coach. Thanks again for sharing this post.
Did you get your rv repaired?
We are awaiting the furniture from the factory in Mississippi, and then we are being told the repair will be completed quickly. We're heading up to La Mesa this week to check on progress, and hopefully we will have an update after that. The good news is that both Tiffin and La Mesa have been reaching out to us on a regular basis to let us know they are on top of this. We are reassured by this.
B plus,no such thing,it’s a C
Yes, we agree. Dan misspoke demonstrating his half fastedness.
Is there a screen on the entry door
Great Catch! Yes, there is a screen, but it is different from most RVs we have seen. Just inside the door on the forward side there is a retractable screen that slides out across the door. It has a similar operation to the shower sliding door. It is a really clever design, and we should have pointed it out. Thank you for being less half fast than us.
Winnebago owns grand design
That may explain why the company has begun to manufacture Class C motor homes. Winnebago sells a ton of these units. We have heard that the Grand Design factory is in Amish country, and they touted the fact that many of their employees are Amish. We're not quite sure how much changed when they were acquired by Winnebago in 2016. Although we know they have been having frame issues with their travel trailers.
You lost my interest
Sorry to hear that, we do our best to try to keep them moving to prevent that sort of thing. If travel videos are more in your interest, we have those as well.
Grand Design? No thanks!
Fair enough. They have been having some issues lately. We are curious to see if they can turn it around with these new models.
@@halffasttravelers2702 doubt it! They have very little respect for their buyers!
I'll take it!
Sold!! Ha ha. It was really nice, and that 600 watts of solar really had us wishing we had more on ours.
Nice I saw one at Hershey
We wish we could have gone to this show. We heard good thins about it.
@@halffasttravelers2702
Worth a trip. So is Tampa
That’s not a class C, it’s a B class.
Hmmm, we have many viewers who may disagree with you on this one. FYI, it is listed as a Class C on the website.
CRAP just cause its shiny , its CRAP
Hmm, you may end up being correct, but we feel it's still too early to apply this label to this RV. We do respect your opinion though.
@@halffasttravelers2702 blue ox to do inspection
Do you have experience with Blue Ox. We'd love to hear if you thought they did a good job. Thanks.