I must say that mixing is not only a way to solve problems, I use mixing masterind and producing to tailor my "signature" sound. It can really elevate a track even if it needs no "fix"
You are right like f.ex. how normal is to sample replace drums these days and autotune on vocals is almost a must even with good vocalists etc. Of course when I make my own "for real music" I mix it too. That being said I do find that the less I do the better and every change I make is also potentially a change for the worse on another speaker system so keeping things as natural as I possibly can has proven to be the best end result for making a mix that translates really well and sounds good on most speakers. There's more scooping in music in 2024 than there ever was in the numetal days which are bashed for overscooping.
Ppl just don't get the point of the video, OFC u have to mix ur song, but these plugins make ur mixing life a lot easier cause they sound good from the start! Ofc u have to mix, but thats not the point of the video
I think it's a huge flex! My point here is not to make the best sounding demo ever but give you a realistic expectation to what our plugins sound like. Also our plugins aim to a ballpark dB output to help people with these things - that is something quite unique that I don't believe any other company is doing. So if you have no expertise at all this is the sound quality level you can get easily and if you are an audio engineer you will not have to work hard making it sound exactly the way you want it.
Thank you Mikko for blessing us with all these amazing plugins and presets! I used many other plugins, nothing sounds as good as ML right out the bat and I really love you put effort into that ❤
Some people are seemingly deliberately misunderstanding Mikko's point. He's not claiming that mixing is unnecessary. He's demonstrating that ML's plugins generally already sound very good and production ready out of the box. Which I can attest to. I never got a seriously good drum sound faster than with ML Drums. The same goes for the amps. There's very little you really need to do to make them sound great AND sit in the mix well. Maybe roll off some of the harsh top end, which is just a thing with amp simulations, apply a judicious cut with a very wide Q around 500 Hz because that's what you wanna do for a real Metal tone, and gently tame some specific whistling frequencies if they're clashing with something else in your mix. That's all. And then some people just have terrible taste in music production. Saying this sounds "weak" or "lacks energy" ... that's because you're listening to a bunch of completely overproduced, fake garbage Metal all day that wouldn't even work without all the ridiculous and overblown trickery that these producers apply to make that stuff sound like it does.
and THIS is why i (almost) exclusively use ML Sound Labs (i did get the Blackout as well, love it). yes i own Guitar Rig (5) and Amplitube (4) but from a while back and still use them for stuff now and again but i was sold with the first ML Drums release and Amped Icon...
The reason why I bought MIKKO2 was so I could micro-manage the mic placement on a guitar cab instead of choosing from a list of IRs or having limited movement in an amp sim plugin. I actually want to finesse the sound instead of being painted into a corner with what someone else thought sounded good, but there's definitely a place for mix-ready sounds out of the box which can be more inspiring to make music with.
MIKKO2 is a great one for that - it still comes under getting a great sounding source tone really, as it replaces a fundamental part of the rig. I think part of the magic of MIKKO2 is that it's possible to get bad sounds. This means that you're actually engineering the guitar tones with the guard rails lifted. It's a great way to really dig in to what makes a good guitar tone, and learn what works for you. -Kai
Awesome! I just bought three of your Amped plug-ins over the past two weeks. They sound incredible! I'll have to grab the bass plugin. I love the sound of your drums as well but I have no experience in programming the midi. If I can find a way to learn how to program I will grab that too. Thanks Mikko!
Programming MIDI is incredibly rewarding - we did a video titled "Transform Desk Tapping Into Programmed MIDI Drum Beats" that might be worth checking out. For this method, you'll need to grab a cheap MIDI pad controller if you don't already have one, but I found it to be a very intuitive way to get up and running with programming my own MIDI beats. -Kai
I don't know about the drum vst and the amp sims, I'm fine with what I've been using for some time now. But I can see what you mean with your IRs, especially the latest ones, I just throw them on and they work with whatever modeler I use; especially the mixes you provide. It makes things a lot easier knowing I don't have to do any post EQing to tame any unwanted frequencies, I just need to pick what sits better in the mix
@mlsoundlab I have the same issues but only with certain sounds. I've tried everything but could not solve the issues myself. Doesn't matter what interface or buffersize I used. Could be something with oversampling but I could be wrong.
Well your plugins are definitely amazing but mixing is very much required if you want a nice and polished mix. If mixing wasnt required, people wouldnt do it.
Of course and I mix my own real songs too, I started all this by mixing other bands 15 years ago. The point I was making is that people are not spending enough time making sure that the source tones are great and instead spend way longer "mix-fixing" problems that could've been avoided by spending a little bit more time fine tuning mic placements and gain etc. to get a really good source tone. These demonstrations do a really good job showing how far you can go with really good source tones and everything sounds very natural and not fake. I need to look at this from a customer relationship point of view - I would absolutely feel like I'm lying to you guys if I told you "this is how our plugins sound" after using a transient designer on drums and multiband comp on the guitar low end and Soothe on cymbals etc. that is immoral and that is a sad norm in this industry and I refuse to do that. It's not right.
I agree in that I find most of Mikko's mixes far too dry for my tastes, but you can't really discount the fact that this is a great result for doing literally nothing other than opening some plugins and hitting record. It's a great solution for bedroom guitarists who just want something done quickly or for getting acceptable demos, and when you have a great starting point, your potential end result after putting in some additional effort for your mix is going to be even better. "Garbage in, garbage out" as they say, so I find it hard to complain when ML is offering this kind of end product, and it's not like they're charging much for it compared to other brands in the market right now, either.
If it was a mix then maybe.... but since it's not a mix it's pretty awesome! I dunno I actually love natural sounding mixes so I don't have a big problem with it. None of the music I listen to was made in the surgical EQ era. I run a company that sells plugins so I think it's pretty baller that I have no problem showing what the plugins actually sound like rather than try to fool you guys by messing with them. I'd feel like a fraud if I did and sadly quite many companies do just that. Just trying to keep it real. Obviously my super surgical EQ rant is my personal opinion but the more advanced the audio engineer the more commonly you tend to see them get their sound by messing with things as little as possible.
Sorry Mikko, I like your impulses but this is a horrendous take on what mixing is and why it's needed. The result is flat, lacks energy and ultimately sounds like an unmixed demo because that's exactly what it is.
A good source tone will 100% of the time sound better than a mediocre source tone with all mixing tricks. Spending an hour placing mics in front of the cab properly will save you days trying to save a bad mic up with mixing and I guarantee it will sound more natural and therefore better. That is the point I'm trying to make. Maybe I did a bad job explaining it. My perspective is of course different because every song demo I make is a demonstration of a plugin we make and if I had to mix them heavily to make them work I would feel like I'm lying to you guys. And I honestly think so many of the product demos out there are lying to customers. Quite recently another amp sim company released an amp sim and they made a promo video with the artist and the music on the background was recorded 20 years before the plugin was made. That's what I have a problem with. Of course when making official real songs I mix my tracks too.
well this is actually a great approcah. This is THE way to demonstrate plugins. This transparency is what we need.
This was the point I was trying to make. Potentially the thumbnail made people think this video was about something else. :)
I must say that mixing is not only a way to solve problems, I use mixing masterind and producing to tailor my "signature" sound. It can really elevate a track even if it needs no "fix"
You are right like f.ex. how normal is to sample replace drums these days and autotune on vocals is almost a must even with good vocalists etc. Of course when I make my own "for real music" I mix it too. That being said I do find that the less I do the better and every change I make is also potentially a change for the worse on another speaker system so keeping things as natural as I possibly can has proven to be the best end result for making a mix that translates really well and sounds good on most speakers. There's more scooping in music in 2024 than there ever was in the numetal days which are bashed for overscooping.
@ I totally agree. Great explanation!
Ppl just don't get the point of the video, OFC u have to mix ur song, but these plugins make ur mixing life a lot easier cause they sound good from the start! Ofc u have to mix, but thats not the point of the video
@@jesus4pincho A lot of people are misundertanding the thumbnail and not watching the video. I explain it in the first 30sec so we know what's up. 🤣
Don't get me wrong but "I'm not even volume balancing them" is kind of a weird flex. 😄
I think it's a huge flex! My point here is not to make the best sounding demo ever but give you a realistic expectation to what our plugins sound like. Also our plugins aim to a ballpark dB output to help people with these things - that is something quite unique that I don't believe any other company is doing. So if you have no expertise at all this is the sound quality level you can get easily and if you are an audio engineer you will not have to work hard making it sound exactly the way you want it.
Thank you Mikko for blessing us with all these amazing plugins and presets! I used many other plugins, nothing sounds as good as ML right out the bat and I really love you put effort into that ❤
Thank you! 💪
-Kai
My favorite videos are the ones that have 3 proq3s working against eachother on a guitar track
That 0.5dB cut at 600Hz before the compressor /really/ complements the 0.5dB boost at 600Hz after the compressor 🫠
-Kai
I’ve just been adding a touch of EQ and compression lately and it’s been way fuller and dynamic
Less is more
That's what it's all about - with great takes and source tones, you don't need much to get things sounding pro
-Kai
Some people are seemingly deliberately misunderstanding Mikko's point. He's not claiming that mixing is unnecessary. He's demonstrating that ML's plugins generally already sound very good and production ready out of the box. Which I can attest to. I never got a seriously good drum sound faster than with ML Drums. The same goes for the amps. There's very little you really need to do to make them sound great AND sit in the mix well. Maybe roll off some of the harsh top end, which is just a thing with amp simulations, apply a judicious cut with a very wide Q around 500 Hz because that's what you wanna do for a real Metal tone, and gently tame some specific whistling frequencies if they're clashing with something else in your mix. That's all.
And then some people just have terrible taste in music production. Saying this sounds "weak" or "lacks energy" ... that's because you're listening to a bunch of completely overproduced, fake garbage Metal all day that wouldn't even work without all the ridiculous and overblown trickery that these producers apply to make that stuff sound like it does.
and THIS is why i (almost) exclusively use ML Sound Labs (i did get the Blackout as well, love it). yes i own Guitar Rig (5) and Amplitube (4) but from a while back and still use them for stuff now and again but i was sold with the first ML Drums release and Amped Icon...
Thank you for the support! 🙏
-Kai
The reason why I bought MIKKO2 was so I could micro-manage the mic placement on a guitar cab instead of choosing from a list of IRs or having limited movement in an amp sim plugin.
I actually want to finesse the sound instead of being painted into a corner with what someone else thought sounded good, but there's definitely a place for mix-ready sounds out of the box which can be more inspiring to make music with.
MIKKO2 is a great one for that - it still comes under getting a great sounding source tone really, as it replaces a fundamental part of the rig. I think part of the magic of MIKKO2 is that it's possible to get bad sounds. This means that you're actually engineering the guitar tones with the guard rails lifted. It's a great way to really dig in to what makes a good guitar tone, and learn what works for you.
-Kai
I love all your products, they helped me to get on a higher level of recording and also i can't wait for your clipper thingy :)
Stay tuned for the next video where I leak it myself!!
Awesome! I just bought three of your Amped plug-ins over the past two weeks. They sound incredible! I'll have to grab the bass plugin. I love the sound of your drums as well but I have no experience in programming the midi. If I can find a way to learn how to program I will grab that too. Thanks Mikko!
Programming MIDI is incredibly rewarding - we did a video titled "Transform Desk Tapping Into Programmed MIDI Drum Beats" that might be worth checking out. For this method, you'll need to grab a cheap MIDI pad controller if you don't already have one, but I found it to be a very intuitive way to get up and running with programming my own MIDI beats.
-Kai
Youre products are great Mikko, I have a few of them! Now I’m just waiting for the ML4..
Cheers!! 🤘🏻🤘🏻🤘🏻
Me too buddy! Let's see how things go. :)
@@guinganfg ML4?
Sounds great
Thank you!
-Kai
Love it!!!!
For the amped stuff, how should we set input levels?
To where the blue light is barely lighting up
I don't know about the drum vst and the amp sims, I'm fine with what I've been using for some time now. But I can see what you mean with your IRs, especially the latest ones, I just throw them on and they work with whatever modeler I use; especially the mixes you provide. It makes things a lot easier knowing I don't have to do any post EQing to tame any unwanted frequencies, I just need to pick what sits better in the mix
Glad to hear that! Reflex is something we're incredibly proud of for sure.
-Kai
I think josh middleton has got you beat on this
Nah ... UMD sounds way too fake and overprocessed. ML Drums sounds huge, fresh and breathes with big natural room sound and great dynamics.
@honigdachs. in this demo ml drums sound fake and overcompressed
@honigdachs. they dont sound like that in this demo
He looks like Parappa
4:03 is it reall clipping or is it an OBS bug recording?
Yea OBS bad.... :/ makes guitars sound like they're clipping. Need to check those settings.
@mlsoundlab I have the same issues but only with certain sounds. I've tried everything but could not solve the issues myself. Doesn't matter what interface or buffersize I used. Could be something with oversampling but I could be wrong.
Is that JMP1 a hint?
That's a great question 🤔
-Kai
Well your plugins are definitely amazing but mixing is very much required if you want a nice and polished mix. If mixing wasnt required, people wouldnt do it.
Of course and I mix my own real songs too, I started all this by mixing other bands 15 years ago. The point I was making is that people are not spending enough time making sure that the source tones are great and instead spend way longer "mix-fixing" problems that could've been avoided by spending a little bit more time fine tuning mic placements and gain etc. to get a really good source tone. These demonstrations do a really good job showing how far you can go with really good source tones and everything sounds very natural and not fake. I need to look at this from a customer relationship point of view - I would absolutely feel like I'm lying to you guys if I told you "this is how our plugins sound" after using a transient designer on drums and multiband comp on the guitar low end and Soothe on cymbals etc. that is immoral and that is a sad norm in this industry and I refuse to do that. It's not right.
@@mlsoundlab I respect that, my guy. God bless.
Feel like some people are kinda missing the point of this video. Sorry for having to re-explain a dozen times.
That's the way it goes 😄
-Kai
with all respect, your mixes just sound weak, it's a really weird take about mixing
But where else would it sound this good while doing NOTHING?
I agree in that I find most of Mikko's mixes far too dry for my tastes, but you can't really discount the fact that this is a great result for doing literally nothing other than opening some plugins and hitting record. It's a great solution for bedroom guitarists who just want something done quickly or for getting acceptable demos, and when you have a great starting point, your potential end result after putting in some additional effort for your mix is going to be even better. "Garbage in, garbage out" as they say, so I find it hard to complain when ML is offering this kind of end product, and it's not like they're charging much for it compared to other brands in the market right now, either.
Well hey that's just like your opinion man
No, they just don't sound "fancy"
If it was a mix then maybe.... but since it's not a mix it's pretty awesome! I dunno I actually love natural sounding mixes so I don't have a big problem with it. None of the music I listen to was made in the surgical EQ era. I run a company that sells plugins so I think it's pretty baller that I have no problem showing what the plugins actually sound like rather than try to fool you guys by messing with them. I'd feel like a fraud if I did and sadly quite many companies do just that. Just trying to keep it real. Obviously my super surgical EQ rant is my personal opinion but the more advanced the audio engineer the more commonly you tend to see them get their sound by messing with things as little as possible.
Sorry Mikko, I like your impulses but this is a horrendous take on what mixing is and why it's needed. The result is flat, lacks energy and ultimately sounds like an unmixed demo because that's exactly what it is.
A good source tone will 100% of the time sound better than a mediocre source tone with all mixing tricks. Spending an hour placing mics in front of the cab properly will save you days trying to save a bad mic up with mixing and I guarantee it will sound more natural and therefore better. That is the point I'm trying to make. Maybe I did a bad job explaining it. My perspective is of course different because every song demo I make is a demonstration of a plugin we make and if I had to mix them heavily to make them work I would feel like I'm lying to you guys. And I honestly think so many of the product demos out there are lying to customers. Quite recently another amp sim company released an amp sim and they made a promo video with the artist and the music on the background was recorded 20 years before the plugin was made. That's what I have a problem with. Of course when making official real songs I mix my tracks too.
No way.. it sounds real
I hate todays music and fake sounds ... this here is the truth...
It does sound good, but your statement is very bold 🤔
What would UA-cam be without bold statements and big claims? 🥲
-Kai
@ lol true!