Why did I blow up my stepper motor driver of my Ender 3?
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- Опубліковано 4 бер 2020
- In this video I go a bit deeper into what happened in my previous video in which I blew up my stepper motor driver. I got several comments from people with similar experiences and I think it's interesting what is going on in that small package. This is a first time more explanatory video for me and I hope you like it. Please let me know if you have any questions or suggestions regarding this subject.
The datasheet from the A4988 stock stepper driver: pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datashe...
The datasheet from the TMC2209 driver: www.trinamic.com/fileadmin/as...
The schematic of the main board: github.com/RudolphRiedel/CR-1...
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Please consider buying me a coffee if you liked it or helped you :) ko-fi.com/properprinting/
I place photos of the projects I am working on here too at random to get you excited with what has to come!
The link to my website: properprinting.pro/
Software used for making this video:
- Mechanical design: Fusion 360 www.autodesk.com/products/fus...
- Illustrations: Inkscape inkscape.org/
- Laser engraving: Lightburn lightburnsoftware.com/
- Slicer: Simplify3D www.simplify3d.com/
- Video editing: Davinci Resolve www.blackmagicdesign.com/
- Screen recording: Captura github.com/MathewSachin/Captura/
- Audio recording: Audacity www.audacityteam.org/
- Photo enhancing: rawtherapee.com/
If you have any questions or suggestions, feel free to leave a comment! - Наука та технологія
![Как заменить запаянные А4988 на Ender 3 [How to replace soldered A4988 with Ender 3]](/img/n.gif)
I hope you’ll learn a thing or two from this video and if you have any questions, let me know! :D Don’t hesitate to leave a comment if you can add some information or if I explained something incorrectly. I’m going on holiday for a week but I’ll read all the comments and reply to them where possible, have an awesome day!
you're absolutely right, no voltage drop over one of the sense resistors pumps the current up until the magic smoke gets released. your last drawing explains it perfectly.
That's cool, thanks for your confirmation! I was a bit unsure but I couldn't think of something else.
@@properprinting btw I'm ElWiz from f3d discord
Awesome, good to know. Thanks again for sharing my video there!
One other possibility is that one of the stepper motor wires became disconnected while a significant current was flowing through it. This can perhaps cause a larger momentary voltage spike than the mosfet body diodes or the driver circuitry can handle. The voltage is given by the equation V=LdI/dt; When you disconnect the steppers while current flows through them, dI/dt approaches infinity creating hundreds or maybe thousands of volts for a very short period of time. This abrupt change in current may be significantly more abrupt than the Mosfet switching off during normal operation. I have seen a stepper driver get smoked for this very reason. I think some driver board makers (e.g. Gecko) even warn you to not disconnect them while energized....for one thing it can be a dangerous shock hazard as the energy stored in the stepper may find a path to ground by emitting a spark through your hand and body.
If you want to test this, use a relay to interrupt the current and trigger your scope with the relay control wire to look for this voltage spike-and be very careful...
I believe, some driver boards have extra diodes that protect the circuit for this type of thing. It doesn't look like the Ender 3 has anything like that... Also, the A4998 spec sheet does not indicate that it can withstand more than 35 volts. As most of the energy in the stepper arcs across the disconnected wire, the resulting high voltage may destroy the driver.
Anyway, this is my best guess...
Best,
Bernie
I loved the fake interview with yourself.
Awesome! It was a bit of an experiment and I'm glad that you like it! I haven't done much acting, but it's fun to do :D
Love your sense of humour. I’m currently watching through all your videos. Awesome!
I'm in the same path. This guy is funny. Great channel !!!
Luckily I have read about this before doing it.
Massive thanks for the A4988 and Mobo wiring drawings. Super helpful!
EDIT: Super helpful video. As an engineer, I am not happy with theory until I understand how it works, and watching you tinker with all this taught me everything about it. I now can sleep well knowing I won't fry my board tomorrow.
Great work as always, informative and funny, the perfect combo.
I think you're right that the problem was a coil crossing from one driver (H-bridge) to the other. It's a little worse than you drew it, though; the current path won't go through both coils (in which case current would typically be lower), the other coil is also connected across to the other side. What happens with the chopper is that it's measuring current at particular times, and those times may not overlap for the two sides; thus you can have both sides deciding that more current is needed since they don't see their own current. Even if they trigger their short circuit protection, that may not turn off the right driver.
4:59 triggered my ptsd after recovery from watching ElectroBOOM
Great video. I learn a lot from your videos. At the same time it's very entertaining and comedic. I really appreciate it. Best wishes to the success of you and your channel!
Awesome, thanks a lot!
Recently blew up my A4988 drivers on my printer after upgrading the extruder which came supplied with a different stepper motor. Of course the coil pairs were different and I just reused the old wiring and managed to blow up the driver. Then proceeded to blow up all the remaining drivers trying to diagnose it. Was looking at the datasheet trying to figure it all out, and your video explains it all very well.
In the end I went and installed a SKR mini E3 to replace the main board. I also ordered some new A4988 drivers off aliexpress and will swap them out on the old main board to keep as a backup.
Another fantastic video. I liked the cut away jokes. Looking forward to seeing a video about a new replacement main board. It looks a bit more exotic than the usual "silent" offerings from creality or bigtreetech. Perhaps sensorless homing?
Thanks Jamie! I'm glad you liked them. It was an experiment to see how it goes and it's a lot of fun to do! I'm going to look into sensorless homing, thanks for this suggestion!
oh my, you have a lot of time on your hands!!! enjoyable production, my friend. as below - 2 wires per coil (can be tested with an ohm-meter) they should go to the driver's a1-a2 and b1-b2 respectively. the coils themselves can be reversed as you did, which by reversing one pair, WILL reverse the direction of the rotation. I've learned from that same exercise you have done some time ago, but since i did not put a vid out, you never got to reap the benefits of my stupidity. sorry.
keep up the great work that you do - very inspiring.
Russ from Ocala Florida, USA
Thanks a lot Russ for your comment! I don't have the time to reply to the comments in a timely matter though xD Another way to find the coils is to connect the scope and rotate the motor. This looks pretty cool and I should have shown that on this video. It's good to read that my work is inspiring, thanks! :D
Thank you so much for making this video. The stupid ender cables are black so you can't tell what's going on. I got my first pancake nema 17 and I realized that I'd probably want to check out the pinouts before I did anything. Your video is the only one that really covers all the diagrams. Time to go test the pinouts and not fry this board!
Cool to see some metal in there for a moment 🤘
Awesome. My Ender 3 pro's extruder stopped working and I've been chasing the solution for days. I've apparently damager the flat cable, since the motor is ok. Tried another cable I've bought from China, but of course the middle wires weren't crossed. Fingers crossed I haven't blown my stepper driver.
Fantastic video very educational. this also makes me wonder if this is mainly with the A4988 drivers or others too. i have also heard that disconnecting a stepper while live can blow a driver and some boards have added protection against this. love your videos finding your channel was like stumbling across a gold mine of educational videos. Thanks for everything and keep up the amazing work!
Thanks a lot for your comment! I've heard a similar thing about disconnecting the drivers and I think that's due to the energy stored in the coil of the motor. I think I will make a similar video in the future in which I'm going to do more experiments.
@@properprinting My old company (don't want to mention their name), would blow stepper drivers because the electronic brake was set (short to GND) before the motor was stopped moving. It was a minute amount but enough time to have kickback from the coils.
@@bitsurfer0101 Thanks for the information. Yes that kickback would be great to measure one day with the scope. These spikes can be immense!
You should be able to swap all stepper pins on a 4 wire cable without blowing up the driver. Worst case you created an open circuit, otherwise the current goes through one of the 2 stepper coils. Leuke video! Ga zo door!
The instructions are clear, I just blow my stepper motor driver.
Your acting skills are awesome. Made me laugh out loud.
I'm very happy to read this, thanks! It was a bit of an experiment because I haven't done much acting. It's a lot of fun to do :D
Gotta love some good old fashioned magic smoke lol
I ve had somethink like this when I connected new stepper with wrong wiring. Driver switched off for a 5 or 10 minutes. There is some "stupidity safety" in those drivers. Try turning left(to lower current) or right(to higher current) the screw on the driver. You can even measure voltage on this screw comparing to ground on the board. Ground you can figure out looking at 2560 diagram pinout.
Second thing you can try is those plastic connector cubes: you pull(bend out) plastic sticks in there and pull wires out and switch them. However if driver worked right at the beginning connections should be fine.
Interestingly over my head.
I had a similar problem. I'm new to all of this and never owned a 3D printer. I built it, tried to authome, the x-axis didn't move in the right direction. Someone online told me that I should swap the middle two connectors and that should flip the rotation and go the right way. Well, I did it, but I'm pretty sure the stepper driver is fried... Lol. I'm going to order another stock control board on the ender 3 and hope everything is fine...
Hi ! thanks for your videos ! By the end you say the 0.1 ohm doesn't sense anything which is wrong. It senses the current flowing throught your H bridge thus in the coil itself. it's used as a current limitation as in your bench power supply.
I have no idea why your driver died horribly but my guess is that one of the output mosfets came to a dead shrort instead of failing open circuit. 1 chance outta 2. his friend of the opposite branch didn't quite appreciate it and blew up the chip to Mars.
just nitpicking
@17:48 you say the current goes through two motor coils
this halves the current as the total resistance doubles.
your conclusion though was right :)
at the datasheet at page 66 [15.2] the have their excuse sentence for burned-out drivers.
With the TMC2130 they did it the right (expensive) way and used a high side RDSon current measurement (Datasheet TMC2130 Page 61 [12.2]).
Low side measurement is cheaper as you can measure across your current resistor (which can be substituted by using the MOSFETs internal resistance, further saving complexity and electrical losses...) which goes directly to GND. At the high side you would have to "level shift" the small analog voltage to GND.
hope this made it clear
You're absolutely right! The difference between half or double is not nitpicking xD Thanks a lot for your clarification, great information!
Would the coils be running in opposition making it +- 24v?
Just bought a new extruder and blown the correspondent driver, didn't change any cable. So how can I get the stepper to rotate with the new board 😢
Leuke video's hou vol er mee !
Crazy thing I was just watching all his videos and downloading the project files and he suddenly posts a video... freaking coincidence I guess
Awesome! It is indeed a coincidence because I usually don't upload on this day of the week.
@@properprinting crazy thing! Thank you so much for your insane effort to build these projects. I'm a DIYer as well and I take my hat off for what you've accomplished! Keep the creativity up! Ps: loved the acting in this video
nice sketch :)
Is the ender 3 working with the change? Make a video about it!
Been there done it blown a boad should have just turned the the plug around at the board lol...
Keep the videos coming
Haha, this was exactly what went through my head after I read about that possibility xD
I have a stepper motor I'm trying to use for a project. Do you happen to know how I could minimalistically connect it to a computer, and turn it 90 degrees at a time? I'm trying to make something that rotates by moving in increments of 90 degrees, or moves to different 90 degree positions based on what I want.
The easiest thing I can think of is to use a spare Creality main board (overkill for sure but it saves a lot of hassle) and connect that board to your PC. You can use a terminal screen e.g. Putty, TeraTerm or Termite and send the G1 command. You have to calculate back how far you want the stepper to rotate in order to reach 90 degrees. Hopefully this helps :)
When I got new motors and the wiring was wrong all that happened was a massive amount of noise and no rotation... Glad I didn't manage to blow up my drivers with it :D
Lucky you xD
Well, It could well be that that was the problem, it's weird tho that they would not "add" the current of both H-bridges together also to see if it is above a maximum. They obviously shouldn't only do that as that would cause other problems but also checking the total current, I would think saying that they have 'Short circuit protection' that they would've implemented that too. Maybe the "explosion" of the driver also could've been due to some kind of back emf that caused it to receive a spike in voltage somehow (after the coils got saturated with current) and that caused it to explode in that way? I don't know just thinking aloud xD
I'm soooo disappointed that you didn't show the readout of that db meter when rocking that guitar!
Yes I should have done that xD Missed opportunity there haha
Curious how you manage to blow up the drivers by switching the wires of the steppermotor. I swapped a mainboard for a SKR 1.4 other with SKR 1.3 both fitted with TMC2208 in UART mode and I had to figure out the right way to wire them. Meaning switching the middle two wires, the two outer wires, all four. The motors I have are 42SHDC3025-24B with all the switching I did, not a single stepstick failed on me. Board has 24v Juice Steppercurrent is set to 800 (default).
I have to admit that it's still strange that it happened like it happened. My only explanation is the one I gave at the end of this video but I still have the feeling that I'm missing something, but don't know what exactly.. My current was set to default as well btw
I've literally just blown up a driver on my board, same as you and you upload this! Can you confirm that the wiring needs to be A1 A2 B1 B2 in the 4 pin connector? (Where A is coil 1, B is coil 2, found by detecting continuity with a multimeter between two wires going from the stepper)
I don't want to blow up any more lol.
What a coincidence xD The pinning is very odd.
On the 4 pin connector side:
coil1= 1A(pin4) and 1B(pin3)
coil2= 2A(pin2) and 2B(pin1)
These are connected respectively to the 6 pin connector:
coil1=A(pin1) and A'(pin4)
coil2= B(pin3) and B'(pin6).
It looks strange but the most important thing is that the pairs are not connected to each other. The pairs on the motor side aren't next to each other (1 and 4 is pair one), (3 and 6 is pair two). If you're still unsure I'd suggest drawing both connectors on paper and connect them. I did that for this video but cut it out due to this video becoming too long. Maybe a follow up in the future, but for now I hope this helps :D
nice really like your videos, always great ideas/designs.
I can offer to change the SMD stepper drivers on the boards if you want. I have some unused allegro chips if you want to have a "stock" ender board for future videos and if you put in a 2209 bare chip or stepstick breakout into the package I can also repair you bigtreetech board. I'm from Germany if you want to look if it is worth the shipping...
from Germany to the Netherlands it is 5€
Thanks a lot man! I work at an electronics manufacturer so I should be able to repair the board ;) Cool that you can do these kind of repairs as well. Your offer means a lot to me and if I need a board I will contact you, thanks! Ps. The Ender 3 board has turned into carbon under that QFN so that will be hard to repair xD
@@properprinting oh ok nice didn't know that...What are you doing at the electronics company. Just out of curiosity?
The ender board has earned it's retirement then xD. Can at least the big tree tech board be saved?
I am a test engineer and I build test fixtures for production testing. I mainly do LabVIEW programming but it's a combination of electronics and mechanics as well. I have repaired boards in the past but I don't do that so much anymore. Do you work in the electronics too? The BTT should be able to repair which can be a nice video for the future :)
@@properprinting sounds like you made your profession your job, that's amazing :)
I'm just studying engineering science right now
Just studying engineering science he says xD Man, that's great! You'll definitely find your profession :)
So switching 2 of the 4 wires shorted the coils out? Would you need to switch all 4 wires to make it work in reverse?
Switching two middle wires or two outer wires with each other can short out the motor driver. So the pinout of the board connector is A1, A2, B1, B2. Both A need to be connected to ends of one motor coil, and both B need to be connected to the ends of another coil. If you switch A1 and A2, this is safe and the motor is reversed. If you swith B1 and B2, the same. But never ever allow one motor coil to be connected to A and B outputs at the same time!
Very entertaining mate haha :)
Thanks! I was a bit worried that this subject would be a bit boring. I'm glad it entertained you :)
i just put a piece of glass on my ender 3 to have better first layers, first thing i noticed is that the glass is a lot heavier than the default bed, my concern is, could that be a bad thing? like the motors have to make more strength? the rubber straps won't stretch? well i have this doubts now
I only print on glass and have printed a lot already. I haven't had issues at all. I think that this becomes more relevant if you want to crank up the printing speed.
I thought I blew up my extruder motor then realized the problem is the mainboard, because the motor worked when I switched the e to z wire. I bought a new mainboard to upgrade my CR-10 mini at the same time. Now I'm playing with visual studio code to make my printer working again, so if there a way to repair my good old melzi board back on track I would really appreciate!!!
Nice guitar riff @ 14:48
so what did printer do exactly when the driver went bad??? did printer stay on and just stop moving or what...??? thanks
It emitted blue smoke from the electronics box and was promptly turned off. I believe it was able to keep running, but without this one burned axis being able to move any longer. Given the hot end is on the same circuit even on better designed boards, i don't think any board can absolutely guarantee you not to set something on fire under the circumstance, but at least the board is guaranteed to be made form a self extinguishing material.
Example of me trying to solve 2+2
Do you know how the stepper motors are tuned (i.e. stepper profiles created like s-curve or trapezoid)?
No I don't, but it sounds interesting! Do you have a source where I can find more about this? I'd like to learn more :)
@@properprinting There are some basic math equations and explanations shown here: www.pmdcorp.com/resources/type/articles/get/mathematics-of-motion-control-profiles-article
and more on S-curve uses and why they are used as opposed to trapezoidal profiles
www.pmdcorp.com/resources/type/articles/get/s-curve-profiles-deep-dive-article
Could there be some backdrive current? But then, there should be some current protection right?
I became a bit sceptical about the current protection xD. I don't think that the backdrive current can harm, but this is still something that I'd like to try in the future
@@properprinting It certainly can harm a lot of drivers. It's why e.g. Watterott sell the SilentStepStick Protector. And budget boards like Creality's are unlikely to bother with extra protection.
I told you to not forget to twist the wires back to their original place in the connector. Now you know why I said that John ;-)
Yes I definitely found that out xD It's so easy to destroy a stepper driver, I didn't expect that
what's the difference between a driver and stepper motor? i mean stepper motors are the drivers or is something different?
I meant stepper motor driver which is the chip I destroyed which drives the stepper. I said stepper motor a couple of times, but the motor itself isn't destroyed. It's a bit confusing xD
I extended my wires and I switched the middle two. It never rotated again when i powered it up without testing first.... So stupid!!!
I did the same for the fans. Creality has all of the fan wires reversed on the board. It is stupid if you ask me. Luckily it is not permanent damage and you just need to switch the wires back around.
And the driver isn't protected against stupidity xD Very common mistake I found out and you're definitely not alone ;)
I blew up the extruder controller (the A4988) when I forgot to turn off the power supply when I reconnected the motor. Is certainly not protected from stupidity! The good thing is that I changed the motherboard for a BTT SKR Mini E3 V2.0 which is much better than the shitty Creality motherboard.
prety sure it turned on both coils at the same for for some reason causing it to short out the fets in those crappy drivers
Whats the name of the big mainboard? Best Peter
It's the Ultratronics pro reprapworld.com/products/electronics/ultratronics/ultratronics_pro_v1_0/
My stepper driver is flashing. 4 red flashes pause then 4 red plashes
Do you know what it could,be
No idea. I suggest posting this on the 3D printing subreddit or another relevant forum.
Creality would solve these problems if they'd just provide a simple color coded wiring diagram of stepper wiring. I can't find that anywhere.
You lost me when you whipped out the oscilloscope
I like how you opt to play guitar. Way better video than teaching tech's
Awesome that you think this video is better, thanks! I do like Teaching Techs channel because he can explain things very clear and thorough. I like to be a bit less serious ;)
@@properprinting both great channels. TT does chuck in a few Norris jokes lol
14:47 K-Pop
lol any here the bounty ad when he said one sheet
I've burned one stepper driver yesterday 🤣 there are way too many possibilities to do it
Blowing up one is way too easy, I was surprised by that! Shame though that you burned one
You NEED to turn your guitar amp to 11 :D
Haha indeed and don't dare to go lower xD I do have some hearing loss due to a Marshall amp
Signal is the same, timebase has changed.
I cannot disagree on that. What I meant is that it looks different and that you can easily be fooled if your time base is too narrow (I was at first xD)
@@properprinting 25 years in electronic repair and design. Just experience .... love your work though :) Big fan of your channel.
@@RamjetX OK, I'm not working even half of that in the electronics so yes, I can imagine that you know a thing or two about it ;) Very cool to read that you love my work, thanks! :D
I stil hope that you wil make a Dutch channel. Not enough Dutch 3d printing Chanel's
Sorry Wim, that's not going to happen. Most Dutch people understand English and there are too many drawbacks of making a Dutch channel.
@@properprinting I did found a sponsor that would love to see a Dutch channel. 123inkt and cameranu. They wil sponsering if the channel is Dutch and reaches more then 50.000 viewers. I'm willing to volunteer together with a colleague of mine who like me owns a ender3 pro and is currently upgrading the crap out of it
Awesome man, I didn't see that one coming, thanks! However, most viewers are from countries outside of the Netherlands. It doesn't benefit me and most viewers to make a Dutch channel as far as I can tell.
Haha i blew mine also.. last year. But i manage to replace the driver...
I didn't think it would be so easy to destroy a stepper driver. Nice that you've replaced yours! I should replace the driver on my BTT as well once I have some time. Maybe this will make a good video xD
You blew it move on !!! That simple !! They're can be a few things why
I have no idea what this guy is doing.