Can you do a review on your dog? The one with the curly hair. Maybe you can so a similar process. Review him now and then review the dog next year to see how things are going
PLEASE! … Hey Rhett, it’s a great idea, but please do multiple (maybe three) recordings on different days, since just how you feel, sit an play that day could be affecting the tone. After a year, do three recordings again and than let us hear in a blind test all 6 recordings and if we can tell them reliably apart, it’s proven and not just confirmation bias. You should also keep and stop using that pick, since a more round pick changes the tone too. A sustain test would be awesome too! Thanks for your work!
I've played a couple Sonic Sitka guitars from a couple of different builders. They were uniformly excellent sounding guitars even though different builds. (Most of acoustic tone indeed really does come from the top.) I did just send out an inquiry to some luthiers I know to find out if the project is still a thing. You might also want to contact Bourgeois, as they may have that information. There are recordings of the sound profile of your guitar when it was new out there somewhere. Might be interesting to see how it has changed.
@rhettshull you should do a video where you get 6 of the same Martin acoustics like the one you bought and see if they sound the same. With factory instruments I think oftentimes you may be hearing the variations of instruments off the production line vs different models themselves. You might have ended up with a really good middle of the road guitar and a bad high end model. That would be a cool video....
@@robertnewell5057 thank you! Making my own instruments where I do every step on my own, it's a challenge to develop a consistent sound (I'm definitely getting there). But in a factory, I'm not sure how much fine tuning goes in to each instrument so you're basically relying on the design (obviously in Martin's case, an excellent one) to produce the sound of the instrument and I don't think they can account for variations in each piece of wood. I'd love to see that test.
I also got a new (2023) D-18 recently and I’m excited to follow this. Mine also sounds a little tight or close feeling. I’m excited to hear it open up over time too. 🙂
Well Sweetwater had 100k people already hear about their business through the video plus eventually I'm sure it will hit 1M views. I'm sure sweetwater paid much less through wholesale anyway.
Out here on the internet and on my Android Pad, the Martin sounds much like you are hearing: tight, a little short on sustain. I did not hear the brightness you described but that could just be my pad. This is going to be a great comparison in a year. Great idea Rhett.
Really cool idea. Looking forward to the results next year. Appreciate you giving those of us who already had Fretboard Fundamentals a discount on the Ultimate upgrade, too. Time to finally wrap my head around Modes.
Agree, I play a 1965 OOO-18. You can tell the moment you pick it up that its lost a lot of moisture over the years and sounds amazing. I feel like it's all the play and the age that broke it in and gave it a really even and rich frequency range.
Cool idea. Some really technical spectrum sound samples might be useful just to minimise the subjectivity but also to try to home in one where exactly the variations arise.
Great video concept. I look forward to hearing the results in the future. But a few suggestions: 1) Do one a month for the first year. I expect that aging and opening up is an asymptotic process (rapid initially then decreasing to stable level over time). 2) Try doing some 'accelerated aging' by leaving the guitar in front of a stereo speaker playing music at a moderate volume for days at a time. I'm sure there are other variables that would be interesting to include.
I bought a standard production 00-18 for my 30th birthday (I believe the equivalent US made model to the guitar you have there Rhett) and I have no criticism of it. Went to a Martin dealer and played every guitar (some more expensive models) and ended up preferring that particular “vanilla” 00-18. It just does the thing. Not surprised to hear you decided to hang on to the D-18.
You’re gonna really enjoy playing that guitar. I own a 2022 D18 and to me it sounds vintage already however strings do matter. I was using Daddario light phosphor bronze but now I’m using Monel custom light which I think gives the guitar the vintage sound. Happy playing!
I have experienced the opening of a new guitar many years ago...when an old friend who passed away recently...got a baritone guitar...made out of jarrah...a hard wood from Australia...not usually used for guitars...it had an incredible sound...I was able to play it over 2 years and could really noticed its mellowing out...not just from string age... One of reasons I avoid buying new acoustic guitars...I usually buy 2nd hand or floor model guitars several years old that have beeen played a lot or a like one guitar that was 14 years old when I bought barely played but vibrated for 14 years in a recording studio...it has an incredible sound...
My Taylor 614ce LTD that I have had now for 23 years with a Sitka Spruce top and Maple back and sides and neck with an ebony fretboard has definitely changed tonally over time. It sounds brighter and louder than it did 23 years ago. Conversely, my Martin D-15 which is all Mahogany does not sound a much different than when I bought it 27 years ago. It's a beautiful sounding guitar, but it just hasn't changed much. I'm sure wood type has something to do with it. I wouldn't give up either guitar for the world.
Mahogany doesn't change like Spruce or certain Cedars, so in this case, it makes sense there is less of a change in tone. A all mahogany guitar will be more stable and some people really like that and the sound.
I bought a pretty decent Seagull guitar a few years back that has been measured with klodny resonance testing over a few years of its life. While I cannot share the data itself, since it belongs to my luthier friend, I can assure people there is scientifically measurable data that supports this change of a given guitar’s resonant focus over time. The Seagull has some notes that really sweetened up over the years and it has been measured. My buddy is building some crazy acoustic guitars with science, you might be interested Rhett.
I recently went to Toyko and bought a two year old mint D 18 for a great price of $1775.( good exchange rate) Perfect set up and it became almost the only guitar I played. I also have a 20yr old 000 18. The D 18 was great but it did not feel opened up yet. I researched the bridge pins and decided on Martin Liquid Metal pins for $100. I left the old strings on it and just changed the pins to have a true comparison and it definatly improved the sound. It sounded MUCH more mature. I would suggest if you get a D18 change the pins it is well worth it.
I leaned my new Collings OM-1 against the stereo speaker, sound hole facing the speaker, and played music all night. The sound waves presumably help the pockets of crystalized tree resin to break up. I believe it helps to giddy-up the break in period.
Cool project, Rhett! A few years ago, I rescued a pair of classical/ nylon-string guitars from the dumpster in the apartment complex I was living in. One was a '72 Takamine, made in Japan; the other was a ¾-size '68 Aria, made in Japan. I took both to a local trusted luthier to go over, set up, and make necessary repairs. The Takemine is loud, with a deep, rich, resonant tone. It's my home/ couch guitar. The ¾ Aria hasn't been played as much and has a thinner, tinnier tone. It plays fine, but I'm not enamored with the tone. The luthier told me I need to play it a lot more to get it sounding better. Just interesting to me that two guitars from the same era have such different tones and feel. I wish you well in your experiment. Be good to you 🙏🏻🤍
This is fascinating. I know guitars do age in, and I have an old Gibson archtop (a 1939 L-75, same wood combination as a D-18) that appears to have spent most of its 85 years in the (still solid but a little scuffed) case. I'm playing it more and more, giving it some Big Band style chordal playing in addition to other styles. It's definitely waking up.
Rhett... i watched yer Martin D breakdown and it was ho-hum at best. THIS izza great idea ! go ahead and commit to 20 yrs of airing it out ! one year is just getting started. let you and the guitar breath and resonate together. thanks for rethinking your demo !
its the only thing you can do to test an acoustic guitar, I bought one not expensive around £750 its now 1 year old and sounds and plays so nice and the voicing has changed and matured wonderful, I play mine every day, and use it live regular, and its a Martin, call it cheap but I would buy it again if I had to for the price a beautiful sounding and playing guitar model is a Dreadnought Junior, made in Mexico, I did adjust set bridge height to suit me playing, strings are Martinretro acoustic, 11s,
Noticed that my torrefied guitar opened up quite a lot in a year, I’d be curious to see what gets more sonic change, playing in or the dryness of the wood
aside from you pointing out wood drying process and it's effect on sound, strings and their constant tension over years shapes the wood of the instrument, that's why it's also important to play with the instrument...hope you get what I'm saying :)
It’s funny that you said the guitar FEELS “tight”, because that was exactly the word I was thinking of when I listened to it (without really knowing what that meant). It sounds great, but… tight. Love the sound of your Zeppelin sample, too!
I built one of those sonic Sitka tops. I’ve never had any follow up for testing. It was supposed to happen at shows - Healdsburg, ASIA conventions and other guitar events. Would have been a huge project to maintain but it’s gone silent as a project. It’s good to see a sibling build.
Very cool idea. It will take quite a bit of time to really hear the changes. This idea of opening up isn't (for once) some idea without any backing to it (again, tone wood is not a thing for solid body guitars). The structure of the cells changes (crystallizes in a way). It's not that the wood is completely dry, but that it can't take up moisture again. This takes a long time naturally. Torrefaction of wood rapidly accelerates the process. Of course, this process isn't cheap, as it requires specialized kilns that operate in a very low oxygen environment. I have to plug Breedlove here (local company for me). They have multiple guitars that have torrefied tops in the one thousand range and it's all the acoustic you will ever need.
This will be cool to see for me, because I have a D18. In my experience it seems that the rosewood bodies open up more than the mahogany bodies. I can tell the HD28s over time change a lot, while the D18 seems very consistent
I once did something similar except over only an hour. I locked off as many variables as possible and recorded my Guild cold from its case and after being "warmed up" for an hour, and I was very surprised by how noticeable the difference was. I imagine it was mostly down to literal warmth as the guitar tested against my body, but who knows what else goes on in the microcosmic world of lumber.
The whole thing about acoustics sounding better with age is SO TRUE. I bought a new Taylor acoustic from the factory in SoCal a year ago and it sounded new. I don't know how to explain it but your Martin had that same new, tin-y ring to it. It doesn't sound bad but it sounds not as good as old guitars XD. I recently found an old 70s guild acoustic in a closet at our church and was FLOORED by the sound. I know there are a lot of factors but I think age is age is the biggest one imo. I have had my Taylor for a little over the year, playing it heavily every day and it is sounding better now. It adds to the whole guitar player bond over time. Crazy!
Looks like we both got a D-18 from Sweetwater at about the same time. I’ve already installed an LR Baggs Hifi Duet in mine. Can’t wait to see how our guitars sound a year from now.
well, in my experience part of what makes a guitar good is if it _feels_ good. that is i think a lot of what makes guitars sound great to the player is the way it feels when you play it, the resonance through your body, i get this a lot from the martin OOOX1 i commented on in the last video. some guitars just vibrate through your chest cavity as well as the guitar body.
You made a good choice, and I think a year is a good choice, too - that's where most ot the change is supposed to happen. I might mention that Martin's guitar action specs are quite high. I have three suggestions. First, If you are going to fiddle about with the bridge, or any other aspect of set-up, this will be likely to change the tone. So redo your time 1 test AFTER the set-up. Second, you yourself know that guitars are supposed to open up over time, and psychoacoustics (and actually all experimental paradigms) say thatexpectations will will change performance at time 2. So, before you do the time 1 test again after the set-up, set up an automated picker - it's easy, just get a rotary tool like a dremel, put one of the tiny buffing wheels on it, put it on a LOW setting and run it against each open string in order. Record the results. Do the same in a year. It won't sound like real guitar playing, but since you are interest in the sound variation between times 1&2 that doesn't matter. You just look at the wave forms (or ask us!). Great project. My thrid suggestion is nothing to do with this project, but is one I would love to soo you do - take a dread from each dread in the Martin 'Standard' range (or whatever they are calling it this week) and compare them. Great work you are doing. Thanks again.
I have a USA Martin that I bought new about 5 years ago. Subjective of course but it sounds the same to me. If playing were the thing that makes it sound better, you could use a transducer on the bridge to vibrate the guitar at the factory. Several years of "playing" could happen in days.
I always wondered if that would serve the same purpose as it being played. I think how the wood dries and thins out over time makes a significant difference as well. I played the D28 and Taylor 314 thinking I would pick between the two and get on with it. I played them, and thought..."My 1988 Takamine D28 EF series copy sounds every bit as good as these do," but I wasn't convinced. So I took into the shop with me to compare...and yep, I was correct. The years of playing it and it aging made it sound even better than they did new. I accept that when they age nearly 40 years, they would probably be much better than the Takamine, but at 56...I don't have time for that! LOL That saved me some money....
@willbros1499 Your Takamine was probably just a better guitar and always will be. The big acoustic guitar manufacturers tend to make the soundboard too thick to reduce warranty issues. The Driftwood Guitar channel has some good videos on this subject.
It will be interesting to see how that unfolds. I remember when I was shopping for a high quality acoustic over 20 years ago. I went to Guitar Center and played some expensive Martins and wasn't too impressed as they didn't sound all that much better than affordable guitars. But then I went to a high end acoustic store and played one that was about 20 years old and it just sang and rang out beautifully. Night and day difference, and the shop owner did talk about how they needed time to open up. I ended up with a Tacoma acoustic that was about a decade old, basically an American made D28 copy, and it had the same open tone.
Cool, just wondering if you would be taking some measurements on temperature, humidity and such, buy all your strings for the coming year from the same batch so you'll be comparing in over a year with similar conditions.
It's an interesting idea. Since all the sound of an acoustic guitar comes from the guitar itself it makes sense that as it ages with behaves different and thus sounds different. Just make sure all the other variables are the same. Same mic and mic placement same gauge strings and try to keep it as stock as possible. It would also be interesting to hear the before and after with no visual cues. And or a frequency response graph to see where the differences are and how severe. I'm not sure if a year is long enough to see much of a difference but it sounds like you're going to put a lot of miles in one year. Sounds like fun.
I second this thought. Might want to throw a sound hole pickup on and record the temperature, humidity and maybe barometric pressure of the room. Not that the sound hole pickup is what you’d go for to say “this sounds the best” but the combo might give you some control of variables to look at over the years. Takes a few minutes, but won’t have the opportunity to get today’s measurements a year from now. Cheers!
I heard Jason Isbell say he left his Martins in front of the speakers blasting Outcast when he went shopping. Anything to put vibrations into the wood.
Rhett, your new D-18 sounds wonderful. A Sitka topped D-18 will open up in about six months of daily playing. Please do remember to properly humidify your new D-18. If I remember correctly you made a video a couple of years ago about what happens when you forget to properly humidify a high end acoustic. All of my Martin's have D'Addario humidity packs in their hard shell cases.
It's been a life-long dream for me to have this guitar. It sounds so beautiful. I never had the chance to listen to a US made Martin live. I only wish in the near future that all the people who have the same dream can make it true. I'm working my ass off to save money so I can buy mine. But shipping+customs+taxes fees outside of the US to my country make that very hard. Merry Christmas, community!
I absolutely love my D-18! In my opinion it is the guitar that when I first played it in the store I was like "thats it, thats the sound" . There are definitely better sounding guitars out there but if you want a great acoustic that just does that classic American sounding acoustic then the D18 is it especially at the price point.
Keep the strings and and string age and everything else identical in your test! Honestly 1cm mic position or angle change could have a greater affect than anything that happens to the guitar in a year
I have a d18 too, I wasn’t looking for another acoustic, I’d recently bought another expensive acoustic and I’m not wealthy but when I played it I pretty much had to have it. It sounds just like the records.
I love the idea of this! how are you going to assure that the mic placement is perfectly the same each time? From my recording experience (amateur at best), placement matters a ton. Even a few degree shift can drastically change the tone and sound.
A notable and worthwhile experiment, Rhett. Too bad one of the big variables won't be able to be clinically observed, using the advantages of a new type of vibration sensor - the 3-Axis Accelerometer. For mid range reponses, including extremely low frequency applications, it may be one of the best to come along that would allow for exact placement (therefore nearly perfect repeatability) on an instrument. As that tech evolves, the promise of a full human frequency range may be just around the corner. Apparently they are being used to analyze the cabinet responses of speaker cabinets and especially subwoofers.
Since you are planning a revisit next year, please include some Holiday tunes in your set list. Also do some sound checks to measure volume and sustain and let us see if we can hear any notable differences. I believe an instrument that is played with often (worked out, broken in) will sound better than its twin “closet queen” that is just kept in storage.
Its true - Acoustics do age, my Maton ECW80-C is about 22 years old and ts aged beautifully - I just dont think 1 year will be long enough to really notice anything however... Maybe more like 5 at least...
The sound is definitely Martin with a prominent midrange. The Maton sound is typically less mid-focussed. The setup change and age comparison will be interesting.
Such a great idea with such a great guitar. I am strictly an acoustic player and I have experienced guitars "opening up" or time, but not every guitar does it to a noticeable effect. Gonna follow this with interest, love your channel and what you do
Cool idea, just gotta keep in mind that even the most consistent humans are inconsistent. You might not be able to play that guitar the same way you played it today a year from now. You might pick it harder or your pick might be more fresh, or you might be ever so closer to the mic, or your posture might be different. I'd LOVE it to be a yearly thing so we can hear if/when the most extreme changes in sound come from in its lifespan as different people give different amounts of time as to when each starts opening up.
Rhett, LOL Day 18 ... didnt pick up on that... I like the idea of following a guitar as it ages but do you really think there's going to be that much of a change over the course of a year? It takes decades for an instrument to bloom. No??? You bought that Bourgeois how many years ago? I bet you have recordings when you first purchased it and can compare it to today. Can you compare your Bourgeois to the D-18? Your previous video compared the range of Martins. Your Bourgeois is around $3000... the same price as the D-18. I agree that the D-18 is the benchmark in general for acoustics. I just think there are better guitars in the price range. BTW I own a Taylor 614 Builders Edition. Matt Hudson Valley, NY
This would be fun to compare with an Eastman thermocured dreadnought as well to see if torrefied tops are worth the extra money. I know Bourgeois is really big on torrefied woods too.
If it’s anything like my 1972 D-18 I bought new 52 years ago it may need a neck re-set in a year or so. I’ve had 4 neck resets since 1972. First one done by Dana B. himself up here in Maine in his old shop when he was starting out.
Try the ToneRite device...? I know it might be in the subjective woowoo space, but I just used it on a new acoustic build and it may've had some subtle effect.
To anybody reading this, if you want a absolutely great way to record aucustic guitarr do the following. 2 linear kidney or room mics in AB Stereo, distance around 7 inches from each mic. Aimed at 10° outwardly each direction, left one aimed in the hole of your acoustic and one in the base of the neck. There you go. Absolutely great way to record a aucustic in a suitable recording room.
When you realize he posted this on December 18th, aka D-18, aka every year if he does this test yearly the D-18 will be recorded on "D-18"
Brilliant!!!
Q
10 out of 10 pun
Oh dude I didn't even realize this!!
@@RhettShull 🫡
missed opportunity for your course name to be fRhettboard fundamentals
yeah..,he shoulda!
Yes!!!
Yeah, he really Shull have done that.
Wow 🤯
The sonic sitka thing sounds so cool! Would love to see more about that
Can you do a review on your dog? The one with the curly hair. Maybe you can so a similar process. Review him now and then review the dog next year to see how things are going
I'll watch it!
How you gonna get it to make noise?😮
PLEASE! …
Hey Rhett, it’s a great idea, but please do multiple (maybe three) recordings on different days, since just how you feel, sit an play that day could be affecting the tone. After a year, do three recordings again and than let us hear in a blind test all 6 recordings and if we can tell them reliably apart, it’s proven and not just confirmation bias.
You should also keep and stop using that pick, since a more round pick changes the tone too.
A sustain test would be awesome too!
Thanks for your work!
He should double blind himself also so he can't know what year it is.
I've played a couple Sonic Sitka guitars from a couple of different builders. They were uniformly excellent sounding guitars even though different builds. (Most of acoustic tone indeed really does come from the top.) I did just send out an inquiry to some luthiers I know to find out if the project is still a thing. You might also want to contact Bourgeois, as they may have that information. There are recordings of the sound profile of your guitar when it was new out there somewhere. Might be interesting to see how it has changed.
I’ll ask Bourgeois at NAMM and see what’s up.
Great idea! You should think about giving us the basement studio update too.
I am glad you are doing this it will be interesting to hear the guitars tone open up over time.
i did not want over the hills and far away to end, that was good
@rhettshull you should do a video where you get 6 of the same Martin acoustics like the one you bought and see if they sound the same. With factory instruments I think oftentimes you may be hearing the variations of instruments off the production line vs different models themselves. You might have ended up with a really good middle of the road guitar and a bad high end model.
That would be a cool video....
That's a great idea.
@@robertnewell5057 thank you! Making my own instruments where I do every step on my own, it's a challenge to develop a consistent sound (I'm definitely getting there). But in a factory, I'm not sure how much fine tuning goes in to each instrument so you're basically relying on the design (obviously in Martin's case, an excellent one) to produce the sound of the instrument and I don't think they can account for variations in each piece of wood.
I'd love to see that test.
I also got a new (2023) D-18 recently and I’m excited to follow this. Mine also sounds a little tight or close feeling. I’m excited to hear it open up over time too. 🙂
Getting a $2,800 guitar for free has got to be nice
Well Sweetwater had 100k people already hear about their business through the video plus eventually I'm sure it will hit 1M views. I'm sure sweetwater paid much less through wholesale anyway.
Out here on the internet and on my Android Pad, the Martin sounds much like you are hearing: tight, a little short on sustain. I did not hear the brightness you described but that could just be my pad. This is going to be a great comparison in a year. Great idea Rhett.
Really cool idea. Looking forward to the results next year. Appreciate you giving those of us who already had Fretboard Fundamentals a discount on the Ultimate upgrade, too. Time to finally wrap my head around Modes.
Hell yeah! Congrats.
Agree, I play a 1965 OOO-18. You can tell the moment you pick it up that its lost a lot of moisture over the years and sounds amazing. I feel like it's all the play and the age that broke it in and gave it a really even and rich frequency range.
Cool idea. Some really technical spectrum sound samples might be useful just to minimise the subjectivity but also to try to home in one where exactly the variations arise.
Great video concept. I look forward to hearing the results in the future. But a few suggestions:
1) Do one a month for the first year. I expect that aging and opening up is an asymptotic process (rapid initially then decreasing to stable level over time).
2) Try doing some 'accelerated aging' by leaving the guitar in front of a stereo speaker playing music at a moderate volume for days at a time.
I'm sure there are other variables that would be interesting to include.
I bought a standard production 00-18 for my 30th birthday (I believe the equivalent US made model to the guitar you have there Rhett) and I have no criticism of it.
Went to a Martin dealer and played every guitar (some more expensive models) and ended up preferring that particular “vanilla” 00-18. It just does the thing. Not surprised to hear you decided to hang on to the D-18.
You’re gonna really enjoy playing that guitar. I own a 2022 D18 and to me it sounds vintage already however strings do matter. I was using Daddario light phosphor bronze but now I’m using Monel custom light which I think gives the guitar the vintage sound. Happy playing!
Great idea! Please take a photo of the top now and one year later in the same lighting to compare the darkening process :-)
Same test, same strings, same pick, same ACTION, same temperature, same humidity.....good luck!!
I have experienced the opening of a new guitar many years ago...when an old friend who passed away recently...got a baritone guitar...made out of jarrah...a hard wood from Australia...not usually used for guitars...it had an incredible sound...I was able to play it over 2 years and could really noticed its mellowing out...not just from string age...
One of reasons I avoid buying new acoustic guitars...I usually buy 2nd hand or floor model guitars several years old that have beeen played a lot or a like one guitar that was 14 years old when I bought barely played but vibrated for 14 years in a recording studio...it has an incredible sound...
My Taylor 614ce LTD that I have had now for 23 years with a Sitka Spruce top and Maple back and sides and neck with an ebony fretboard has definitely changed tonally over time. It sounds brighter and louder than it did 23 years ago. Conversely, my Martin D-15 which is all Mahogany does not sound a much different than when I bought it 27 years ago. It's a beautiful sounding guitar, but it just hasn't changed much. I'm sure wood type has something to do with it. I wouldn't give up either guitar for the world.
Mahogany doesn't change like Spruce or certain Cedars, so in this case, it makes sense there is less of a change in tone. A all mahogany guitar will be more stable and some people really like that and the sound.
Definitely looking forward to it 🤘
I like it.
It will be a truly road-worn classic acoustic
Martin D-18 is the best acoustic I've ever played. Had mine now for about 10 years and love it more every year!
I bought a pretty decent Seagull guitar a few years back that has been measured with klodny resonance testing over a few years of its life. While I cannot share the data itself, since it belongs to my luthier friend, I can assure people there is scientifically measurable data that supports this change of a given guitar’s resonant focus over time. The Seagull has some notes that really sweetened up over the years and it has been measured. My buddy is building some crazy acoustic guitars with science, you might be interested Rhett.
Thanks for this. It should be interesting to hear the difference. It sounds good right now, perhaps a bit bright, but that's to be expected.
I recently went to Toyko and bought a two year old mint D 18 for a great price of $1775.( good exchange rate) Perfect set up and it became almost the only guitar I played. I also have a 20yr old 000 18. The D 18 was great but it did not feel opened up yet. I researched the bridge pins and decided on Martin Liquid Metal pins for $100. I left the old strings on it and just changed the pins to have a true comparison and it definatly improved the sound. It sounded MUCH more mature. I would suggest if you get a D18 change the pins it is well worth it.
You should write a Guitar Diary for it over the next year. Events, thoughts, temp and humidity measurements, etc
Great idea, looking forward to see what happens!
Great idea!!! Please document which soundhole pickup you will choose
Really like this idea. Looking forward to the follow up video
I’m a D18 longtime owner, and I say right on Rhett. Next Dec 18, it’ll be sweetened up some.
I leaned my new Collings OM-1 against the stereo speaker, sound hole facing the speaker, and played music all night. The sound waves presumably help the pockets of crystalized tree resin to break up. I believe it helps to giddy-up the break in period.
Very cool idea!! I'm looking forward to seeing/hearing how she is in a year.
I like this idea Rhett. I will definitely be interested in your forthcoming results!
Cool project, Rhett!
A few years ago, I rescued a pair of classical/ nylon-string guitars from the dumpster in the apartment complex I was living in.
One was a '72 Takamine, made in Japan; the other was a ¾-size '68 Aria, made in Japan.
I took both to a local trusted luthier to go over, set up, and make necessary repairs. The Takemine is loud, with a deep, rich, resonant tone. It's my home/ couch guitar. The ¾ Aria hasn't been played as much and has a thinner, tinnier tone. It plays fine, but I'm not enamored with the tone. The luthier told me I need to play it a lot more to get it sounding better.
Just interesting to me that two guitars from the same era have such different tones and feel.
I wish you well in your experiment.
Be good to you 🙏🏻🤍
Damn, I need to step up my dumpster diving. Nice find(s)!
@@norseman61- right place, right time. I was just taking out the trash. Came back with a couple of gems.
This is fascinating. I know guitars do age in, and I have an old Gibson archtop (a 1939 L-75, same wood combination as a D-18) that appears to have spent most of its 85 years in the (still solid but a little scuffed) case. I'm playing it more and more, giving it some Big Band style chordal playing in addition to other styles. It's definitely waking up.
Rhett... i watched yer Martin D breakdown and it was ho-hum at best.
THIS izza great idea ! go ahead and commit to 20 yrs of airing it out ! one year is just getting started. let you and the guitar breath and resonate together.
thanks for rethinking your demo !
its the only thing you can do to test an acoustic guitar, I bought one not expensive around £750 its now 1 year old and sounds and plays so nice and the voicing has changed and matured wonderful, I play mine every day, and use it live regular, and its a Martin, call it cheap but I would buy it again if I had to for the price a beautiful sounding and playing guitar model is a Dreadnought Junior, made in Mexico, I did adjust set bridge height to suit me playing, strings are Martinretro acoustic, 11s,
Noticed that my torrefied guitar opened up quite a lot in a year, I’d be curious to see what gets more sonic change, playing in or the dryness of the wood
aside from you pointing out wood drying process and it's effect on sound, strings and their constant tension over years shapes the wood of the instrument, that's why it's also important to play with the instrument...hope you get what I'm saying :)
What a cool idea. Excited to see how this turns out. You should do monthly updates as well so we can see when the sound changes the most.
They don't change that quickly. I have a 20 year-old Martin that sounds significantly different than it did new, but that's a long time.
@sundaynightdrunk ahh okay, that makes sense. I've never owned an acoustic, I really want a Martin. Can't wait to see how this one breaks in.
It’s funny that you said the guitar FEELS “tight”, because that was exactly the word I was thinking of when I listened to it (without really knowing what that meant). It sounds great, but… tight. Love the sound of your Zeppelin sample, too!
wondering if you should (have) noted room temp & humidity.
so you'd have numbers to reference next year's room against.
and so on.
I built one of those sonic Sitka tops. I’ve never had any follow up for testing. It was supposed to happen at shows - Healdsburg, ASIA conventions and other guitar events. Would have been a huge project to maintain but it’s gone silent as a project. It’s good to see a sibling build.
Very cool idea. It will take quite a bit of time to really hear the changes. This idea of opening up isn't (for once) some idea without any backing to it (again, tone wood is not a thing for solid body guitars). The structure of the cells changes (crystallizes in a way). It's not that the wood is completely dry, but that it can't take up moisture again.
This takes a long time naturally. Torrefaction of wood rapidly accelerates the process. Of course, this process isn't cheap, as it requires specialized kilns that operate in a very low oxygen environment.
I have to plug Breedlove here (local company for me). They have multiple guitars that have torrefied tops in the one thousand range and it's all the acoustic you will ever need.
I have A D-18 made in 1971 and it Still Playes Great
I have a 1972D 18. It looks vintage it sounds vintage wonderful guitar. Hopefully Rhett will be playing his guitar for the next 50 years.
This will be cool to see for me, because I have a D18. In my experience it seems that the rosewood bodies open up more than the mahogany bodies. I can tell the HD28s over time change a lot, while the D18 seems very consistent
I once did something similar except over only an hour. I locked off as many variables as possible and recorded my Guild cold from its case and after being "warmed up" for an hour, and I was very surprised by how noticeable the difference was. I imagine it was mostly down to literal warmth as the guitar tested against my body, but who knows what else goes on in the microcosmic world of lumber.
The whole thing about acoustics sounding better with age is SO TRUE. I bought a new Taylor acoustic from the factory in SoCal a year ago and it sounded new. I don't know how to explain it but your Martin had that same new, tin-y ring to it. It doesn't sound bad but it sounds not as good as old guitars XD. I recently found an old 70s guild acoustic in a closet at our church and was FLOORED by the sound. I know there are a lot of factors but I think age is age is the biggest one imo. I have had my Taylor for a little over the year, playing it heavily every day and it is sounding better now. It adds to the whole guitar player bond over time. Crazy!
Looks like we both got a D-18 from Sweetwater at about the same time. I’ve already installed an LR Baggs Hifi Duet in mine. Can’t wait to see how our guitars sound a year from now.
How do you like the Duet? My D18 is literally in the shop getting one installed this week.
Really cool idea. I would be highly interested in hearing a 6 month update though. 👀
well, in my experience part of what makes a guitar good is if it _feels_ good. that is i think a lot of what makes guitars sound great to the player is the way it feels when you play it, the resonance through your body, i get this a lot from the martin OOOX1 i commented on in the last video. some guitars just vibrate through your chest cavity as well as the guitar body.
You made a good choice, and I think a year is a good choice, too - that's where most ot the change is supposed to happen. I might mention that Martin's guitar action specs are quite high. I have three suggestions. First, If you are going to fiddle about with the bridge, or any other aspect of set-up, this will be likely to change the tone. So redo your time 1 test AFTER the set-up. Second, you yourself know that guitars are supposed to open up over time, and psychoacoustics (and actually all experimental paradigms) say thatexpectations will will change performance at time 2. So, before you do the time 1 test again after the set-up, set up an automated picker - it's easy, just get a rotary tool like a dremel, put one of the tiny buffing wheels on it, put it on a LOW setting and run it against each open string in order. Record the results. Do the same in a year. It won't sound like real guitar playing, but since you are interest in the sound variation between times 1&2 that doesn't matter. You just look at the wave forms (or ask us!). Great project.
My thrid suggestion is nothing to do with this project, but is one I would love to soo you do - take a dread from each dread in the Martin 'Standard' range (or whatever they are calling it this week) and compare them. Great work you are doing. Thanks again.
great idea. where you pick/strum will be key to keeping an accurate comparison. today you're strumming just below the hole
Great idea. Looking forward to the updates.
I have a USA Martin that I bought new about 5 years ago. Subjective of course but it sounds the same to me. If playing were the thing that makes it sound better, you could use a transducer on the bridge to vibrate the guitar at the factory. Several years of "playing" could happen in days.
I always wondered if that would serve the same purpose as it being played. I think how the wood dries and thins out over time makes a significant difference as well. I played the D28 and Taylor 314 thinking I would pick between the two and get on with it. I played them, and thought..."My 1988 Takamine D28 EF series copy sounds every bit as good as these do," but I wasn't convinced. So I took into the shop with me to compare...and yep, I was correct. The years of playing it and it aging made it sound even better than they did new. I accept that when they age nearly 40 years, they would probably be much better than the Takamine, but at 56...I don't have time for that! LOL That saved me some money....
@willbros1499 Your Takamine was probably just a better guitar and always will be. The big acoustic guitar manufacturers tend to make the soundboard too thick to reduce warranty issues. The Driftwood Guitar channel has some good videos on this subject.
It will be interesting to see how that unfolds. I remember when I was shopping for a high quality acoustic over 20 years ago. I went to Guitar Center and played some expensive Martins and wasn't too impressed as they didn't sound all that much better than affordable guitars. But then I went to a high end acoustic store and played one that was about 20 years old and it just sang and rang out beautifully. Night and day difference, and the shop owner did talk about how they needed time to open up. I ended up with a Tacoma acoustic that was about a decade old, basically an American made D28 copy, and it had the same open tone.
Cool, just wondering if you would be taking some measurements on temperature, humidity and such, buy all your strings for the coming year from the same batch so you'll be comparing in over a year with similar conditions.
Love the idea! Looking forward to the results
I absolutely love the D18, 00018. Such great instruments.
It's an interesting idea. Since all the sound of an acoustic guitar comes from the guitar itself it makes sense that as it ages with behaves different and thus sounds different.
Just make sure all the other variables are the same. Same mic and mic placement same gauge strings and try to keep it as stock as possible. It would also be interesting to hear the before and after with no visual cues. And or a frequency response graph to see where the differences are and how severe.
I'm not sure if a year is long enough to see much of a difference but it sounds like you're going to put a lot of miles in one year. Sounds like fun.
I second this thought. Might want to throw a sound hole pickup on and record the temperature, humidity and maybe barometric pressure of the room. Not that the sound hole pickup is what you’d go for to say “this sounds the best” but the combo might give you some control of variables to look at over the years. Takes a few minutes, but won’t have the opportunity to get today’s measurements a year from now. Cheers!
Love the idea. Also, the Sitka project would be interesting to see as well if you can find anything.
Rhett: Yeah, you should let me keep it for....science I swear
I heard Jason Isbell say he left his Martins in front of the speakers blasting Outcast when he went shopping. Anything to put vibrations into the wood.
Rhett, your new D-18 sounds wonderful. A Sitka topped D-18 will open up in about six months of daily playing. Please do remember to properly humidify your new D-18. If I remember correctly you made a video a couple of years ago about what happens when you forget to properly humidify a high end acoustic. All of my Martin's have D'Addario humidity packs in their hard shell cases.
I hope Rhett sees this comment
It's been a life-long dream for me to have this guitar. It sounds so beautiful. I never had the chance to listen to a US made Martin live. I only wish in the near future that all the people who have the same dream can make it true. I'm working my ass off to save money so I can buy mine. But shipping+customs+taxes fees outside of the US to my country make that very hard. Merry Christmas, community!
I absolutely love my D-18! In my opinion it is the guitar that when I first played it in the store I was like "thats it, thats the sound" . There are definitely better sounding guitars out there but if you want a great acoustic that just does that classic American sounding acoustic then the D18 is it especially at the price point.
i'm really excited to see the results. i actually don't think i've ever bought a brand new acoustic, so i'm curious to see how it turns out!
Keep the strings and and string age and everything else identical in your test! Honestly 1cm mic position or angle change could have a greater affect than anything that happens to the guitar in a year
Nice video! Semi hollow electric guitars open up the more they age as well.
I have a d18 too, I wasn’t looking for another acoustic, I’d recently bought another expensive acoustic and I’m not wealthy but when I played it I pretty much had to have it. It sounds just like the records.
Nice, looking forward to hearing how it ages!
I love the idea of this! how are you going to assure that the mic placement is perfectly the same each time? From my recording experience (amateur at best), placement matters a ton. Even a few degree shift can drastically change the tone and sound.
Love it!! And not much beats a tried and true D-18!!
A notable and worthwhile experiment, Rhett. Too bad one of the big variables won't be able to be clinically observed, using the advantages of a new type of vibration sensor - the 3-Axis Accelerometer. For mid range reponses, including extremely low frequency applications, it may be one of the best to come along that would allow for exact placement (therefore nearly perfect repeatability) on an instrument. As that tech evolves, the promise of a full human frequency range may be just around the corner. Apparently they are being used to analyze the cabinet responses of speaker cabinets and especially subwoofers.
Since you are planning a revisit next year, please include some Holiday tunes in your set list. Also do some sound checks to measure volume and sustain and let us see if we can hear any notable differences. I believe an instrument that is played with often (worked out, broken in) will sound better than its twin “closet queen” that is just kept in storage.
Brilliant idea. Looking forward to what comes of it.
Its true - Acoustics do age, my Maton ECW80-C is about 22 years old and ts aged beautifully - I just dont think 1 year will be long enough to really notice anything however... Maybe more like 5 at least...
The sound is definitely Martin with a prominent midrange. The Maton sound is typically less mid-focussed. The setup change and age comparison will be interesting.
Best idea ever!!!! I have a 2022 Martin HD-28 that DID open up since I bought it brand new.
Such a great idea with such a great guitar. I am strictly an acoustic player and I have experienced guitars "opening up" or time, but not every guitar does it to a noticeable effect. Gonna follow this with interest, love your channel and what you do
Cool idea, just gotta keep in mind that even the most consistent humans are inconsistent. You might not be able to play that guitar the same way you played it today a year from now. You might pick it harder or your pick might be more fresh, or you might be ever so closer to the mic, or your posture might be different. I'd LOVE it to be a yearly thing so we can hear if/when the most extreme changes in sound come from in its lifespan as different people give different amounts of time as to when each starts opening up.
Great point! I just suggested a solution in a main comment. Also, he shouldn't really mess with the bridge, etc after doing the time 1 test.
Love this idea! Psyched to hear how it changes over time!
Rhett,
LOL Day 18 ... didnt pick up on that...
I like the idea of following a guitar as it ages but do you really think there's going to be that much of a change over the course of a year? It takes decades for an instrument to bloom. No???
You bought that Bourgeois how many years ago? I bet you have recordings when you first purchased it and can compare it to today.
Can you compare your Bourgeois to the D-18? Your previous video compared the range of Martins. Your Bourgeois is around $3000... the same price as the D-18.
I agree that the D-18 is the benchmark in general for acoustics. I just think there are better guitars in the price range.
BTW I own a Taylor 614 Builders Edition.
Matt
Hudson Valley, NY
I think that's a great idea... should be fun to see how it sounds next year!!
I cant wait to see it next year!!
This would be fun to compare with an Eastman thermocured dreadnought as well to see if torrefied tops are worth the extra money. I know Bourgeois is really big on torrefied woods too.
This is a fantastic idea. I'm looking forward to hearing the difference every year.
If it’s anything like my 1972 D-18 I bought new 52 years ago it may need a neck re-set in a year or so. I’ve had 4 neck resets since 1972. First one done by Dana B. himself up here in Maine in his old shop when he was starting out.
Try the ToneRite device...? I know it might be in the subjective woowoo space, but I just used it on a new acoustic build and it may've had some subtle effect.
Really cool idea!! Can't wait to hear the results!
What a great idea, you should definitely have a Christmas check-in each year.
That's interesting, I'm very excited to see what it looks like in a year😁😁
To anybody reading this, if you want a absolutely great way to record aucustic guitarr do the following. 2 linear kidney or room mics in AB Stereo, distance around 7 inches from each mic. Aimed at 10° outwardly each direction, left one aimed in the hole of your acoustic and one in the base of the neck. There you go. Absolutely great way to record a aucustic in a suitable recording room.
Would be cool for you to record a sample monthly too. And then release it in the year video. To see the change month to month.
YOU LOST ME AT HEAR ME OUT😂😂😂😂