This video currently has 🤍 *2,294* likes and 🖤 *117* dislikes. P.S. For those of you who are new to the channel, I pin a comment like this on every major video to compensate for UA-cam removing the public dislike count. I think people deserve to know the whole story of how viewers feel about my videos. P.P.S. I'm completely stunned at how much this video has blown up already compared to everything else I've done. Thank you all so much for your kind comments. It's good to know so many Twilight Princess fans are out there!
@@xaoz2362 As far as the likes are concerned, I'm always going to be a little behind on that because I don't check this video and update this comment every day. I'm not quite _that_ self-absorbed. As for the dislikes, which I'd say are more important since UA-cam won't make them public, I'm going by what UA-cam tells me through my account, and it's higher than 4. If you're using one of those plugins and it says 4, either it's malfunctioning or UA-cam is deliberately making me think more people dislike my video than actually did (which would be kind of insane). Do you know something I don't?
@@cinnamonnoir2487 It was more about the fact you said that you have 21 dislikes which wasn't accurate for me at least... I don't expect you to update it or anything like that. It was just that your dislikes were way lower than you said they were.
My favourite aspect of Twilight Princess is that EVERY SINGLE dungeon item made me say "This is the coolest item ever!" until I saw the next one and said the same thing again. And I meant it every time.
@a2 True, my comment was about the initial feeling of first getting the item, but you are right in that the item's usefulness does wear off quickly after leaving the dungeon. There are still a few occasional uses, but it would be nice if there were more. Making Spinner move faster than running (but slower than Epona) would make it useful almost anywhere, plus it would be super fun to just beyblade around for the rest of the game. Clawshot would be more useful if more things were valid targets, like how the OoT Hookshot can target almost anything made of wood. So even if you're not solving a puzzle you can still use it to get around by making shortcuts and such. Ball and Chain is already a really effective weapon against many enemies, I don't think it needs a buff. Hero's Bow doesn't need a buff, it's the best ranged weapon in the game. Gale Boomerang doesn't need a buff, it's the best boomerang of ANY zelda game. Dominion Rod is basically only used to solve puzzles, although it does solve a LOT of puzzles. I'm not sure if people even want to use it again after all the Owl Statues. If it was to have an additional use, then maybe it could be used to control enemies somehow? Either directly like in Mario Odyssey, or indirectly like the TotK Muddle Bud effect.
I've never understood the hate for games that focus on telling a story. When I played TOTK, I just didn't feel super connected to it. I don't love or hate TOTK, it's kind of just there. Twilight Princess on the other hand has stayed with me for a majority of my life since I love the story and world so much. I'm genuinely sad to say that I don't really care about TOTK.
Yeah, me too. My love for TOTK came entirely from the music and the emotions I felt at hearing some of it or seeing Zelda sacrifice herself, but I never really liked the story, or even felt like there was one. I feel really sad seeing TOTK lack the story and emotional connection I felt to other games, like Twilight Princess.
For me, the open, non-linear world was a double-edged sword, because there's very little to drive you forward. Yeah, Ganondorf's coming back, but the world will happily wait while you spend literal months goofing around catching butterflies. All the story beats are only centred around the four villages and their respective dungeon, but in Twilight Princess there were so many hype moments between temples. Like the Bridge Battle, Midna's Lament and many others.
Nerrel said it best, TOTK is the Legend of Sloppy seconds. TP actually took the world from OoT and themes from MM and combined them into its own story about Power and corruption and celebrated multiple aspects of past Zelda games as if it were a swan song to the traditional series. That's why I love it.
In claiming that Twilight Princess is shallow, they only really reveal how shallow they are. They don't really understand the games themes and messages, they just see something with a dark tone and assume it must be edgy for edginess sake.
@@Kitty255Again Most Zelda-y? By what standard? It is one of the most linear, bogged down, bland and derivative - not any of the qualities I’d look for in your average Zelda game. All the best ones try something new and generally try to keep players engaged with plenty of different ways to play.
Im really surprised that the fact that there is zero triforce mentioned, used and emphasized in any part of the game, in game, art design and pubblicity in Tears Of The Kingdom hasnt been a bigger deal. Its almost like if Star Wars never mentioned and used the Force out of nowhere. How have people barely talked about it? Something like this i wouldve expected it to be big news. And for people who dont remember, in Breath Of The Wild, even tho its not a big focus, the triforce is mentioned and used by Zelda, so i wasnt expecting the sequel to not even mention it.
I'm actually not that surprised. The Triforce has been fading out of Zelda pretty gradually for more than a decade now. Like I said in the video, Skyward Sword totally forgot about it until the end and then just shoved it haphazardly into the plot. The moment that they retconned the three Goddesses of Hyrule into virtual nonexistence and focused more on "Hylia" (who doesn't seem to be the goddess _of_ anything as far as I can tell), the eventual abandonment of the Triforce as a plot point was probably inevitable.
@@cinnamonnoir2487 it will be very weird in future for Zelda to completely abbandon it but it seems to be invitable like you said But it makes sense if i think more about it after all Botw e Totk were supposed to be reboots of the franchise so it will be interesting to see where it will go from here and if they're gonna make even more changes, and i wonder what art style theyll use for it because every zelda game has their specific ones so looking foward to that too
@cinnamonnoir2487 the only way I've ever been able to get over SS's lack of the Three Goddesses is that Hylia seems like a lesser goddess than the Three. The Three created everything, and Nintendo never said where evil originated. For me, that seems like Hylia was created as a taskmaster and Demise was, either accidentally or as a balance, created in the process. Course that is headcanon as they never gave any info
@@cinnamonnoir2487 It's no wonder you've made a video defending one of the worst titles in the series when the fact that the triforce was deliberately hidden in Skyward Sword went way over your head.
@@bloodykun4443 "Deliberately hidden". More like deliberately ignored. In previous games the Triforce had some metaphorical or symbolic significance as a combination of the three attributes of Power, Courage and Wisdom. In Skyward Sword it becomes a vaguely powerful MacGuffin that Demise just wants and Hylia hides inside Skyloft. No symbolism there, and no real relevance to a plot that's almost 100% about Zelda being a goddess reincarnate and upgrading the Master Sword. This was a lazy token inclusion of the Triforce, and I'm not surprised that Fujibayashi didn't even bother to keep it around in his two most recent games. He has no flair for using it to tell a story. That plot point didn't go over my head, it went under my expectations. I'm aware of the plot of Skyward Sword; I did finish it, after all. And I'm not going to emulate you by bashing it as "one of the worst titles in the series" because there are quite a few things I like about it. If you weren't such a bigot about Twilight Princess you might be able to like some things about it too.
37:32 I love Midna. She is really the best written companion in the series. But there is one side character who comes really close to her, that almost everyone forgets about: Zelda from Spirit Tracks. She’s got character, fulfill an important role in their adventure, and shows a lot of emotions. Even the relationship between Links grows deeper during the game progress. Very underestimated companion.
Yes! The only thing that keeps me from replaying Spirit Tracks constantly is the gameplay. It's too tedious and no matter how much I love the story and Ghost Zelda I will never be able to get past the stylus thing.
ST Zelda is the best companion. Just sucks that she is stuck in ST. I'd much rather replay PH if I had the choice between the two.(Most people would disagree with me on this tho)
I really appreciated this video, Twilight princess is my favourite Zelda game and I always find myself comparing BOTW and TOtK to it. I especially liked it when you said they the storytelling is really good in Twilight and how Link is not just a hero because of destiny but also a personal hero because of how he inspires and interacts with his friends
Yeah, that's always been really important to me. I don't care if they keep making Breath of the Wild-likes from now on, but Link needs a real character arc already. Wind Waker was also great at portraying Link as an unlikely hero who stands up for his friends.
i think this is why the common critique of "the opening of twilight princess is too slow and boring" really gets my goat. like, yeah... the game takes its time to establish link as a character and his relationships with the people of ordon village. that's a good thing! it gives weight to his journey and gives us a reason to care about his adventure. you care about what happens to him and his friends. in contrast, botw throws you into the adventure first, and THEN tries to establish link and his relationships after the fact. it made the whole game's story fall really flat for me. i found myself not really caring about botw link the way i did for past iterations.
@@hylianro right? like, sure, if i booted up rdr2 and arthur was immediately dropped into a lush and immersive open world with no context, that'd be fun, i guess. but the prologue is why i'm crying 30 hours later.
Right? I get that the music very much goes along with the theming of both BOTW and TOTK, but it's still so....empty and emotionless for the most part. There's really no BOTW OG songs I remember aside from the shrine theme and the guardian theme. The only other songs I remember from that game are remixes of already known songs. (zelda's lullaby, hyrule castle theme, zora's domain. That's ALL I remember. Zelda's been known so well for their memorable music and I just don't get that at all from the new games. It SUCKS.
I totally agree! Like for me the only good theme in TOTK is colgera's boss music, but I know that's just because it reuses the dragon roost island theme from wind Walker (which is my favourite track from the whole series)
Twilight Princess has always been my favorite Zelda title. I've put way more hours into botw/totk, but the sheer love I have for this game spans 16 long long years. The two mechanics I desperately hope return to the franchise are transformations and music as a tool of progression. I miss playing songs. I miss navigating the world in a way that's different from the Link we're presented with at the beginning. I also love the Hero of Twilight so much as a character. We watch his trials and victories in real time, and that's so important to me as a player.
I've loved Twilight Princess ever since my initial playthrough back when it released for the Wii, but playing through Breath of the Wild was what made me realize that Twilight was my favourite in the series. It is a near-perfect distillation of the series' identity. Expanding on that identity is fine, but the way the last 3 3D Zelda games have worked to outright ignore it has been really disheartening to witness.
Another thing about the items, it feels super lacking only having four in BotW/TotK. Sure, they might have a lot of uses, but that's not always the point. There was something special about the little niche tools you pick up in the classic games. There might not be a whole lot of statues to use the dominion rod on, or a whole lot of tracks to ride on the spinner, but that made them feel special. It made the things that used them feel unique. With the slate/ultrahand abilities everything ends up feeling incredibly samey with no progression whatsoever after the first hour of the game.
Instead of alternate forms being an aspect of classic zelda I'd say some instrument of sort or way to play music is one actually. you have the flute in the zelda 1, ocarina in a link to the past, ocarina of time and majoras mask, the howling in twilight princess, you conduct the wind like someone conducts music in windwaker, youplay the harp in skyward sword, the oracle games has one instrument per version like the harp in ages, sprit tracks has pipes. Not all instruments are freely playable but to have them involved in the story is commonplace
You make an excellent case for musical instruments being an essential element of classic Zelda. Of course, in doing so you're helping to make my point, because this is _also_ something missing from Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom. I don't believe that I stated at any point in the video that my list of classic Zelda elements was exhaustive. Of course there are more things that older Zelda games have in common, but my goal was just to show how completely Breath of the Wild overhauled the classic approach, and I think my list does a good job of demonstrating that. Nevertheless, I appreciate the input. If I were ever to make a video just about the elements that make older Zelda games what they are, musical instruments would definitely make the list. P.S. Incidentally, in addition to all the instances you mentioned, Link's Awakening not only has an ocarina but is also specifically about finding eight musical instruments to play a song.
Current Zelda left J.R.R.Tolkien behind, therefore the most Tolkien-inspired Zelda (Twilight Princess) has the most of what BOTW/TOTK now lacks. It's as simple as that. Zelda used to be very Tolkien, but in recent years the mainline series has literally just been aping Princess Mononoke while awkwardly trying to keep the original Tolkien-esque world around. The massive plot emphasis put on the Shiekah (nippon ninjas) and their comically advanced technology beginning with BOTW was a HUGE hint to the direction the new creators were steering the ship. The series is no longer a unique and well-balanced combination of East and West, but totally Ghibli with a Zelda skin on top.
i feel like an insane person whenever people praise botw/totk because "it's just like princess mononoke!" because to me, the thinly-veiled references to ghibli films in these two games have always felt kind of... cheap? it would be one thing if these games were inspired by ghibli on a deeper, thematic level- eg, princess mononoke's themes of nature vs industrialization could have been a great foundation on which to craft a zelda game. but what it feels like instead is that someone in marketing had the brilliant realization that many adult-aged zelda fans are also ghibli fans, so if you throw them a ghibli reference, they'll go "oh yay, i love hayao miyazaki!" the only purpose seems to be to remind you of a different thing, and hope the positive associations from that thing carry over to the game you're currently playing. just a total lack of substance
I think its important to point out that in link between worlds you may have been able to rent all the items and tackle the dungeons in mostly any order but that didnt mean the dungeons didnt have meaningful items contained within that impacted your game. I quite enjoyed the subversion that you get all your dungeon items up front and within each dungeon were other upgrades to link such as a better tunic, ores to upgrade the master sword, and a better shield. I felt like it struck a great balance between nonlinear freedom of story progression and the linear power progression from a more traditional zelda.
That's a fair point, and of course A Link to the Past also did this in several of its dungeons (notably the Ice Palace and Turtle Rock), but the point that I and a few commenters on my videos have made is that these in-dungeon upgrades have virtually nothing to do with solving puzzles. This means that the way you solve puzzles in A Link Between Worlds rarely comes as a surprise because it's set up in advance via the items, although again, there are exceptions (the Dark Palace, for instance). My one big problem is that several of its in-dungeon items aren't _unique_ (three of them are Master Ores, for instance), and that makes the dungeons feel less unique. Calling the in-dungeon items in A Link Between Worlds "meaningful" is a bit of a stretch, though. They help you, but aside from the Titan's Mitt none of them is even used to gate off content, let alone changing the way you interact with the world. The Pegasus Boots and Flippers are much more meaningful in that sense, and I appreciate that you can't buy either of them; you have to find them out in the overworld, which feels good. It's just that in A Link to the Past there was a lot _more_ that you had to find that way. If we're not going to have the classic "items in dungeons" approach any more, we could at least have puzzle-solving tools that are a challenge to find out in the overworld. That said, A Link Between Worlds is quite a good Zelda game, and if you think the formula _needed_ to compromise, then yes, it's also a good compromise. I have never agreed with the premise that there was anything "stale" about the classic formula, but I do think A Link Between Worlds is an example of changing it in a good way.
What baffles me is how they failed to integrate the traditional style dungeons into the overworkd in ToTK even though TP did it a while back, the only difference being the linearity in how to pogress. Love that Elden Ring did legacy dungeons in the overworld though, just phenomenal.
I honestly had hoped that Tears of the Kingdom would have taken from Twilight Princess. I had thought that the hand that Link gets would be a companion, housing a spirit or something that would lead/give story elements throughout the game. Frankly, I had thought that the corruption that nearly killed Link would be a 'link' between him and Ganondorf and we'd hear Ganondorfs thoughts on different locations as well as motivations throughout the game. I had hoped temples would be added to the environment that were larger than what we got and that we'd be able to explore them for lore and a reward. Honestly, I don't see why we can't get items in dungeons anymore. Can you imagine getting a Hookshot that would help navigate the terrain better? They could have given us unbreakable weapons that have a recharge time like the Master Sword or need upgrading to be at full power and have lore tied to them. Just SOMETHING to make me want to explore and be rewarded for it. Instead of just randomly having chests in the depths with clothes in it, have temples we'd have to go through to get the clothing of past heroes as well as a weapon/shield they used. They could still have the 4 items at the start of the game giving you access to everywhere, but it'd be so much more if there were items hidden in temples that opened up exploration even more or were weaknesses to certain enemy types. Have the Light Arrows be available to get to help with the battle against Ganondorf, but lock them away in the temple in the sky that's difficult to get to. It's so frustrating to see there are ways to still stay true to the original Zelda formula for older fans to enjoy that they just ignore.
For the story elements of what you're talking about here, I think you're taking a greater interest in the story as a linchpin of the game's design than Nintendo does. Nintendo these days is not that interested in telling stories, and the stories of most of their main-series games are deemphasized in favor of the gameplay. Your ideas are pretty interesting, but they would require Nintendo to spend more time on the story, and draw more attention to it, than I think they want to. As for the more gameplay-related stuff, Nintendo is clearly very committed to the sandbox design approach, which means they can't put items in dungeons because that would limit the player's exploration until they finished those dungeons; sandboxes are supposed to be totally free and open from the beginning or at least very early on. I don't think the sandbox approach is actually a good fit for the Zelda franchise, but it's what they wanted with Breath of the Wild, and Tears of the Kingdom really is just a sequel to Breath of the Wild at the end of the day, with all the same fundamental design elements. Here's hoping they do some of these things next time.
I am the single human being on Earth who was thrilled to play as Wolf Link. I didn't think of it as a punishment except in the very first instance. Apart from the special sword techniques, you are just as powerful. I wish the animals had more to say, but even Epona, EPONA!, has nothing of value to comment on. I love Twilight Princess for the atmosphere, but I can recognize that it is on the thinner side, a bit desolate... I love it though, and hope it is not merely because it was the first Zelda game I ever played. And, honestly, the only one I truly liked.
Once you could switch back and forth freely lots of times I would play as Wolf Link a lot. Although the sword combat was so satisfying I had no issue using that either.
Twilight Princess is my favorite Zelda game. The story is amazing and so is its more realistic artstyle and it has the most heroic Link. Link has the most times of Link saving the people out off all of the Zelda games. Thanks for talkiny about this. Edit: Forgot to add that the only complaint is there wasn't more Goron wrestling.
The Triforce being absent from BOTW/TOTK is even more jarring when you see it depicted everywhere (on busts in Hyrule Castle, some iconography, etc) in-game.
"Over reacting to anything said about Zelda" Nintendo lost money on a game because the western fans didn't want Toon Link, they wanted what was presented at space world 2000 and instead got Windwaker 3 years later, so Twilight Princess is the way it is because of that space world 2000 LOZ teaser trailer.
Okay, maybe "overreacting" was a bit of an overstatement. But it does strike me that the people at Nintendo who make Zelda seem to take criticism a lot more to heart than, for example, the Mario team. And Zelda has seen a lot of crazy tone and style swings over the years.
@@cinnamonnoir2487 you're not wrong, Zelda's one of their longest running game series, even at the time of Windwaker it was their 12th game for the series and it didn't do very well at the time, so they took that criticism to make Twilight Princess, they listened just enough to provide a fun game. As for the tone shifts that's probably to try and make the series seem fresh in new ways given it is somewhat the same story each time, big bad shows up in some form, threatens princess and hyrule, and it's up to Link to thwart those evil ambitions, that core formula for the games hasn't changed much in all this time, with some exceptions.
You really can't overstate that Spaceworld demo's impact! People immediately wanted OOT with better graphics (who can blame them) and Nintendo had not scratched that itch before changing things up with WW, so there was disappointment
I know it's been almost a year since you made this video, but I'm glad to hear the way you presented everything. Also, I enjoy replaying every couple years and I end up making it through the tutorial section in about 15 minutes. The three biggest time wasters are the Goat Wrangling (If you're bad at it like me) the basket walking with Colin's Mom, and MAYBE collecting the rupees for the slingshot.
I absolutely love Midna. She's not just the best sidekick of the whole series, she is just such a well written character. It's easy to understand her motives once you learn her whole story and this makes it even more touching when she comes around and changes her goals. And on top of that she's just funny.
Love the vid. My least favorite argument from people who love the new Zelda games is that they needed to drop so many aspects of the old games in order to be "evolve." So they "evolved" Zelda by gutting some of my favorite stuff from the old games and making it more like every other open world game that preaches freedom. If I wanted to play a new release that gives me the feelings BOTW does, I'd have a plethora to choose from. But what other modern AAA games really fit the niche old Zelda games used to fill? Despite the massive sales numbers, I hope they swing the pendulum a bit in the other direction soon!
The games already did this with OOT, which tossed out most of what was created for the games that came before in order to make something new. We should fully expect that in a decade or two they'll reinvent the franchise again once the current phase runs out of steam.
@@danieladdled OOT has waaay more in common with how the 2D games were starting to shape up. Hell, there are some people who complain that it's too _similar_ to ALTTP in structure. It felt like a natural evolution of the series into 3D, building on what came before with new technology. Whereas BOTW felt like they saw the complaints about linearity in Skywards Sword and chucked everything out the window to prove those people wrong.
@@kingbump6829 by this analogy they saw all of the complaints about how Breath of the Wild was too different from the Ocarina-descended games, but instead of deciding to throw everything out they decided to double down on their design decisions (weapon durability, difficulty scaling, adapting the same map, building on the same story, etc). It seems like a disservice to the artists that created this piece of work to write it off as overreacting to criticism instead of the sincere intent of the artists. It also seems hard to defend that argument when they did exactly the opposite with this release.
@@danieladdled Why didn't they change TOTK to fit people complaining? Because, unlike Skyward Sword, complainers like me are a large minority. Unlike Skyward Sword, BOTW got unbridled praise across the board, GOTY, and outsold every other game in the series with article after article specifically citing it's massive differences in formula. They didn't do "the opposite with this release;" they just went where the success was. I don't see a clearer example than literally doing the same thing twice, for the first time in the series history, because people loved it.
@@kingbump6829 both you and the video are leaving out A Link Between Worlds, which did reuse a map, story elements, game mechanics, and more with the direct predecessor A Link to the Past. Reusing a game setting is not unprecedented, and neither is a near total reinvention of the franchise.
I haven't really enjoyed Totk do fsr and by god I don't understand the unbridled praise it seems to garner everywhere. This video has been a slight breath of fresh air. Unfortunately the runaway success of Botw might have entrenched an ironically even more restrictive formular in the frnachise than OOT ever did. However as you pointed out that remains to be seen. You are also correct that I miss the Triforce (and tbh all of the loosely connected lore) far more than I would have ever thought prior to Botw. For me at least Link's Awakening was an Awakening. I was more engaged in it (and even SS's remake) than Botw after a good few hours not to mention totk. There's just something about the absolute boundless nature of modern Zelda that unfortunately doesn't appeal to me. Twilight Princess though is probably worth a replay at some point. It's been quite a while since my last playthrough. Overall I've gotta commend you for some unique points and perspective! Good job with the video!
Thanks very much. And much as this might seem like an odd sentiment coming from me, I don't think we should despair about the future of Zelda. There are still a lot of creative people at Nintendo, and even they would get fed up with rehashing the same experience if they had to do it over and over again. I've got my fingers crossed.
Why did they make the mistake of rehashing Botw with TotK? This is why I don't have full faith in then anymore. Where is the ambition at Nintendo these days? Their game design has been purposely making almost every franchise easier than in the past. The Mario RPG remake and tTYD made certain mechanics more forgiving; Mario Wonder only got challenging in the last 10% of the game; etc. They're not longer crafting difficulty curves and instead want everyone to 'finish' their games on a first playthrough. With TotK it's shocking how much of a regash it is and even more that the devs refused to give fans better dungeons and enemy variety which were 2 of the biggest complaints of botw. I think there are a lot of negative trends going on with Nintendo and the industry right now. Depth and challenge is at a lowpoint.
I know this an older comment, but if you want a video that breaks down why TotK is a bad game. There is a UA-camr named skittybitty who very recently made a video discussing it at length of what’s wrong with it on every level. From the environment, gameplay, and story. The video is simply called “I hate tears of the kingdom”. I highly recommend it.
Nitpicking: In OoT Link was not the only forest child/Kokiri with a fairy. He was the only Kokiri WITHOUT a fairy, until the events of the game started and the Great Deku Tree sent Navi to bring Link to him.
Yes, I know. That was my bad. I actually address that mistake in the video description. Thanks for bringing it up. I would never criticize other people for nitpicking when it's something I do all the time.
Oh, I totally overlooked it in the description. I'm sorry! After watching (almost) the complete video (I will watch the last 5 minutes later today) I have to say the fairy thing was the only nitpicking I found. :D The rest of the video is really great and I agree with almost everything. Awesome work!
Your last point it so hard. TP's my favorite Zelda, but the thing that sticks out the most is how intrinsically tied together all the games are. Like, OoT was designed as a sort of prequel to ALttP. And then the next three games after OoT were all very very different sequels that add so much meaning to the themes and ideas of the Hero. These connections mean the world to me, because the Hero of Time became so much more than the title of the fame he was introduced in. We haven't gotten that feeling back since TP. If Nintendo wants to tell us all about this new era and the open world Hyrule, then let us see it from different points in time.
Twilight Princess is the best Zelda ever. I experienced the magic of Ocarina of Time in 1998 as the first 3D Zelda. It was amazing, but Twilight Princess did it better in every way.
I feel like every TP video essay I see is either “Twilight Princess was the greatest Zelda!” or “How did Nintendo even release this barely finished game?!” 😂
43:48 This just smacks TP haters/TotK fanboys (both things if text wasn't clear enough) with a glove, it having a brick inside. Most TP haters I've met showed their hate because I showed my preferance over one of their favorites.
Its taken me years, but I've learned to love Zant for that exact reason! He is a man child! Zant turning out to be such a joke of a man really highlights TP's themes of maturity. For a long time I hated that such a cool, scary, and imposing villain turned out to be a total joke. But that fits. He's not the ruler _because_ he's a childish loser who never matured. Midna, by contrast, grows and matures. When she fails, she accepts that it might be her fault and works to fix it. Zant just throws a temper tantrum when things don't go his way! They're both selfish at the start of the story and blame others for their woes. Their choice to either double down on the behavior or not is such a good story element. Zant is the perfect contrast to Midna. What we think to be a cold and sinister person methodically attacking Hyrule is in reality a childish loser. He threw a tantrum and the result was the devastation we see in the game. Like it's such a perfect level of fucked up for a story. I absolutely love it.
Also the fact that during his entire battle, he's copying other bosses, and during the final stage one to one you realize he doesn't even know how to use swords to fight. Never ceases to amaze me how clever it is in terms of character storytelling. He's been cosplaying as a villain the whole time but turns out he's an unimaginative useless manchild haha.
Heck, it is very much not just a character development thing either. Even before becoming a better person, Midna still cared about her people, while Zant betrayed them as soon as he could. His desire to show off his newly gained power(by forcefully taking over another realm) he got from a random deity he just happened to meet yesterday is the exact type of reason they were banished to begin with.
I like that you separate your personal opinion and bias from the analytical/logical point you are trying to get across. It's a pleasure to see your skills at work.
Bro by the title alone I think this is going to be a great video! It is so true that breath of the wild and tears are missing so much heart of Zelda and how Twilight Princess has what it's missing in spades.
What you said about Ganondorf's thoughts at 24:10 does make some sense. When he entered the Sacred Realm to steal the Triforce in Ocarina of Time, the Gods split it up. It seems very rigged, though not impossible. He is destined for part of it, and it seems thats something the Gods just cant control
One of the most interesting things about Wind Waker is that the 3D Zelda game with the most cartoonish aesthetic also had the most realistically written characters. Link actually behaves like a child, albeit a responsible one; Tetra (i.e. Zelda) isn't comfortable with her role as the protector of the Triforce of Wisdom; and Ganon is portrayed as a man first and an irrepressible fountain of evil second. Even in great Zelda games like Ocarina of Time, Ganon is often portrayed simply as an evil power-worshiper who destroys everything he touches. Wind Waker shook things up by having him accuse the _gods_ of destroying Hyrule just to stop him, as if they didn't care about the fate of Hyrule's people. When he says, "Your gods destroyed you!", he's insinuating that their scorched-earth approach is evidence that they hate and disdain all of humanity, not just him. That isn't the perspective of the game, though. The King of Red Lions confronts Ganon with another interpretation, which is that the gods meant to free the people of Hyrule from a past where Ganon would always threaten to dominate them. The Great Sea isn't a lush, fertile kingdom like Hyrule, but the people there are happy and free from coercion; it's sort of like the contrast between Greece and Persia in ancient history. This is why he makes a wish on the Triforce, not to restore Hyrule to its former glory, but to let Hyrule disappear for the sake of the future. The king of Hyrule is willing to let the past go, which includes letting his old self die; that's what distinguishes him from his would-be usurper, Ganon. It's a very thought-provoking bit of writing, and the fact that the gods don't speak for themselves allows you to draw your own conclusions. There's more than just art design that makes Wind Waker my favorite Zelda game.
Until something comes along to top it, I say Twilight Princess was The Legend of Zelda's Last Great Epic, not to say SS or Botw/Totk were not somewhat epic in their own right but none of them truely approached the Emotional Depth of Twilight Princesses themes and naritive and gameplay marrage.
Except now with Aonuma saying that the "open air" style will be the format for Zelda games going forward, I doubt the pendulum will swing back any time soon. Especially because as everyone points out "but the sales numbers!" At this point the only things I can really hope for with Zelda games are remakes of older titles. And with Pokemon and Sonic also leaning heavily into the open world/pure freedom type of game design, it doesn't seem like this trend is going to die any time soon.
The industry has gotten so fat and disgustingly bloated on fiat currency, it needs another 80s crash, no joke. Something to burn the chaff away and bring back some true creativity and CONTENT that is kept in the game for Launch, and not withheld for DLC... DLC and streaming services allowed the Consumer to destroy >themselves
@@nillynush4899I dont know if it needs a crash but it certaintly needs a widespread boycott of some kind which is unfortunatley extremely unlikely. Typical consumers dont care about quality all that much when they only buy 1-2 EA / Activision games a year. Even other studios commit the same sins while taking advantage of your more experience / demanding consumers through false advertising, poor preformance, microtransactions.etc The entire industry has just learned to abuse the consumer because no matter what, there will always be a loyal fanbase who will buy your content every. Single. Time. Without care nor concern for what effect it might have on the industry as a whole.
@@Krshna28 Oh yeah dont get me wrong the industry is not entirely bankrupt. This year alone weve gotten tons of amazing games even I recognize that. Totk didnt have the best dungeons but I still love that game. Maybe it doesnt hold the same spot that TP does. But that doesnt mean that totk doesnt scratch that open world itch very VERY well. What it lacks in some areas in makes up for in others. I suppose its about time we recognize that the reason why most open world games feel like a boring checklist is because they are actuallu extremly hard to make. Trying to fit story in is even harder due to the varied and disjointed nature of the players own freedom. Yet, in my opinion totk and botw cracked the code on how to make open-world exploration exciting and fun.
@@Krshna28 Probably not, especially if Aonuma did indeed say they older Zeldas were "too restrictive" and prefer making them like this. Even if we got a new 2D Zelda down the line, it would probably be like A Link Between Worlds, non-linear and giving you the item before you go in.
People loving Majora because it’s dark and depressing but hate Twilight Princess for that same reason never made sense to me… I personally find Majora irritating to actually play and loved playing Twilight Princess
Nintendo is really missing a beat by not having a middle aged past his prime but still capable Link that has themes of aging and overcoming your age to reclaim the glory of your younger days to help those who depend on you. Now that a large part of the fan base are in their late 30s and 40s.
I disagree with you but I am not very good at putting my feelings into words. It's still a very well made video which took me away from the hell hole that is youtube shorts. Have a nice day
Thank you for finding something nice to say despite our disagreement. I'm sorry you have trouble putting your feelings into words, but I'm sure that if you write them down every now and then you'll get better at it. You could even make videos yourself. You have a nice day as well.
Love the video and really loved the analysis. I know not everyone likes SS, but I think it deserves more credit as a Zelda game. Great dungeons, a Disney-esque story, one of the best if not the best soundtrack in the series, it's a quality edition to the IP.
Thank you for so succinctly putting to words my issues with botw and totk at the end. I don’t dislike them for the games they are, but rather the trend the represent; the homogenization of gaming and a bleak future where every major release is an open world craft-a-thon with parrying and dodge rolls.
10:24 I thought he was the only one without a fairy and that’s what made him an outcast til Navi was told to go to him from the great deku. Is my memory wrong? I thought the kids like treated him like shit for not having a fairy
I know you weren't nitpicking, and you're correct, but you must not have read the description or the three other comments in which someone pointed out this mistake. Sorry for making you distrust your memory.
I'll never forget how my 4 or 5 year old brain drowned in awe when I saw my cousins play Twilight Princess and just trudging through the ordon wood at night and hearing the hyrule field night theme. It's been my favorite in the franchise since then and it makes me happy there's a lot of fans showing their love for it today still.
Honestly when you mentioned how fans originally disliked Majora for being different. It honestly reminded me how Super Paper Mario was also originally dissed by the Paper Mario fans because it chose to change the gameplay from turn based to instead a platformer. But because it still had most of the elements that the fans enjoyed about the first two Paper Mario entries it’s been gaining more of a fan following in recent years. Especially compared to it's 3DS follow up.
Super Paper Mario was a great game, and I think its biggest strength was the characters. The story in broad terms isn't actually all that mind-blowing, but the character interaction is really fun. I love Bowser's reaction to having to team up with the good guys and Luigi's bizarre face-heel-face turn, and several of the new characters (Dimentio, Mimi, the Floro Sapiens and Bonechill in particular) are among my favorites in any Paper Mario game. I hope you're right about Super Paper Mario gaining more fans recently, because it hasn't gotten the credit it deserves.
@@cinnamonnoir2487 Honestly to go with even further comparisons I think Black & White also originally got heck by the Pokemon fans for what it changed but nowadays the fans praise this entry.
Honestly the twilight princess is like ocarina, can be said about ocarina and alttp honestly i always felt like oot was just a retelling of alttp in 3d
I enjoyed this entire video so much and it really reminded me and put words to why I love Twilight Princess so much. Are there any similar games in terms of themes and story?
I hate to be a disappointing Dennis here, but I'm finding it very difficult to think of a game with the same kind of plot and story ideas as Twilight Princess, even within the Zelda series. Majora's Mask is similarly dark and creepy, and also features a similar antagonist, but that's about it. If I had to nail down the important themes of Twilight Princess, I think they'd be more or less the following: a light world and a dark world that interact with each other, an ancient tribe that displeased the gods by becoming too powerful and arrogant, a scrappy hero who rises from obscurity to save a kingdom and his friends, a usurping villain who seems powerful but is weak underneath and can't successfully master the power he uses, and a mischievous sidekick who starts by trying to use the protagonist but ultimately forms a bond with him. Apart from the last one, this actually kind of resembles the story of Star Wars (light side and dark side, the downfall of the Jedi, Luke Skywalker, and the Empire overall), so you might enjoy a good Star Wars game like Jedi Survivor. I also think it's possible that you'd enjoy Golden Sun and its sequel, since they mix combat with puzzles and feature some of these plot elements as well. And I've also often heard Okami brought up in this respect (dispelling the curses in several areas does feel somewhat like banishing the twilight), but it's a little simplistic with the puzzles. I don't know, I'm really spitballing here. You may have to just play it by ear and look around until you see a game that gives you a Twilight Princess-y vibe.
Thanks for the suggestions! I have to agree about Okami, that’s definitely another one of my favorite games from around that time… maybe I’ll replay that :D
I enjoyed both BOTW and TOTK on a first playthrough where you're just exploring the world and seeing what's to see. I haven't played either of them more than once, but Twilight Princess and Ocarina of Time I play through at least once every year or two. I think the classic formula fits the series better than today's "open world because games are open world now." Twilight Princess and Ocarina of Time are still tied for my favorites of the series.
Great video! Twilight Princess has been my favorite Zelda game since I first started playing games in general, was the first game I ever played, and usually I get that nostalgia leads me to think it's better than newer releases and I'm just biased. But after pouring well over 300 hours into BOTW...TOTK literally didn't change enough for me to feel anything but exhausted at the idea of giving it fifty or sixty hours. Some of the story and character stuff is cool, and it's maybe not as vague a world as BOTW, but it's really just one of those games where you look up a playthrough on UA-cam because it's too similar to the first game. Twilight Princess had this world, this masterful atmosphere, and you remember every single character even just the random, unnamed townspeople of Castle Town. Link's story was so much nicer too, a farmboy becoming a hero to protect his friends and the kids who look up to him. Becoming a legend not because he set out to save Princess Zelda, he didn't even know her. He set out just to save his little town, and then he kept going in the end to save the whole realm. Good on Nintendo for trying to make another game like the one players loved, but I feel they played it too safe and didn't make it interesting enough to try out. But, your video going through everything is great!
If you want another zelda game where the sidekick completely earns their relationship with link and has their own character arc and growth, play spirit tracks
As a matter of fact, I have played Spirit Tracks. And I do like the relationship that Link and Zelda have in that game. Unfortunately, I really didn't like the gameplay and level design of Spirit Tracks, and I gave up on it about an hour and a half in. I still own it, though, so maybe this is a good time to go back and give it another chance.
They're definitely controversial entries lmao, but I personally enjoy them. (Definitely biased though, my first console was the phantom hourglass ds lite). Of the pair, ST definitely has the better dungeons, though PH has the better overworld in my opinion (hot take, PH's great sea has more consistently meaningful stuff to do vs wind waker). If you have the time though I do recommend trying again! They're not a modern 3D zelda but if you meet them where they're at they have a lot of charm :) @@cinnamonnoir2487
Twilight Princess was my very first Zelda game, and to this day is still my favorite not so much for its art choice but how expansive the world felt to me when I first played it. I felt like I was this whole other world and I grew to care and love for the main characters I think what made TP special to me outside of nostalgia was the atmosphere it was able to convey through the music and tone every place that visited I was able to smell, hear and taste (metaphorically) as I entered each region (especially Snowpeak and the Twilight Realm) that I didn’t really feel in other games save for the shadow temple and Inside of Jabu Jabu from OoT Here's to hoping that eventually all the 3D zelda games (especially WW and TP will be ported to the Switch!)
Ah, my bad big dog. I read the description when I clicked on the video and stopped at the time stamps assuming that was the end, I didn't mean to hit you with that homie, lol. Great video
10:06 Both Skyward Sword and Wind Waker had a significantly higher amount of time of overworld travel, and both methods were highly distinct from "on-foot" controls and experience, so one might as well consider those the alternate forms in those games.
Regarding Navi and Tatl, I think people would be a lot more appreciative of them if they'd realized that the fairies are what allow you to Z-Target. One of the most useful mechanics in the game is directly tied to those characters, but myself and I think many children at the time simply didn't make that connection. Even when fighting Ganondorf and Navi specifically says "I can't help you in this fight" and the game takes away your ability to target him, my only reaction was "Why would I need your help? You're useless", completely missing the entire point of her existence. On a semi-related note, I loved Fi and I loved Skyward Sword. The motion controls were fantastic. Ghirahim is peak character design. Fight me.
That’s actually pretty cool, I never noticed that…! Funny how fans can find something „new“ after all these years. Also, finally someone that doesn’t hate Skyward Sword🥲
Really glad i got to experience how phenomenal Zelda games were from 1998 - 2006. Skyward Sword and BotW/TotK are good but not worth playing a second time in my opinion. Twilight Princess gets shit on alot and i don't know why. it's truly the best in many ways.
Skyward sword is one of the worst Zelda games imo, the sky could have been great but it’s absolutely barren and the imprisoned fight(s) are the worst in zelda’s history (imo) SS did have a few really good dungeons though, the great cistern is one of my favourites in the entire series…shame it’s in the worst 3D zelda game
@leonc9760 That's what I thought about Skyward Sword until I bought it for switch. They did fix a few things, and my opinion about the game went from bad to mixed. It's definitely not a masterpiece, but it's not a bad game. My opinion respectively stands with OoT, MM, WW and TP being the best zeldas of all time.
I would be interested to see your take on Echoes of Wisdom now that it's out... and I'm gonna investigate your channel to see if you have one. I like your analysis! Especially since TP is probably my fav Zelda game... but I also loved BOTW and TOTK. But I love those two for very different reasons and think they could have been so much better with traditional dungeons.
I'm probably not going to make a video on Echoes of Wisdom, especially since I don't plan on playing through it myself, but I don't mind sharing a few of my thoughts with you here. At first I was very apprehensive about Echoes of Wisdom because of that Echo mechanic, which I thought would lead to open-ended puzzles in the vein of Tears of the Kingdom. I also wasn't sure if there would be dungeons in the game, because the central mechanic isn't necessarily a great fit with dungeons. In retrospect I think the first fear was pretty much right on and the second was mistaken, and that kind of "half good, half bad" feeling has stuck with me through everything I've seen. I watched a streamer play through roughly five hours of the game; he played the whole thing, but I was only able to catch about an hour at the beginning, two and a half-ish hours during the middle, and the last dungeon and ending. I didn't fall in love with some of the minor characters the way a lot of people seem to (particularly Conde), but they were reasonably charming. The writing wasn't anything special, but at least it was sincere and mostly lacking in that obnoxious "well, that just happened" quality that seems to afflict games made for a young adult audience these days. The combat really disappointed me. I can see what they were going for, and I understand them wanting to differentiate Zelda from Link, but they overdid it and created a system that gets boring and repetitive very quickly (all I had to do was _watch_ and I still found it tedious). I think it would have made far more sense to give Zelda a simple weapon like a staff (which I believe she has anyway), have that be the basic combat option and save the combat echoes for special moments. As it is, the echoes do all the normal combat, with Zelda limited to support options like holding enemies in place, and the special moments are resolved with a "warrior mode" that just reintroduces the sword and bow. Since the echoes are the gimmick of the game, they should feel important and unique, and constant use destroys that feeling; it's just like the constant use of Ultrahand and Fuse in Tears of the Kingdom, which drained all the mystique out of those powers. Puzzles were better, and I thought some of them were very creative. I particularly appreciated the reintroduction of long dungeons with unique themes; this is one of the most hyped aspects of the game among Zelda fans, and I think it mostly deserves that hype. My one big complaint is that the traversal challenges are so easily broken with echoes like the Flying Tile, Water Blocks and of course Beds. The game in general is a little too easy for me to feel like it would ever test me. I don't blame it for that, since I'm dead certain that this game (like most Nintendo games of the last decade) was aimed at children, and the gentle difficulty curve makes it more approachable, but it severely lessens my interest in ever playing it myself. I'm not a fan of the art style that Grezzo used in this and the Link's Awakening remake, but for what it is the game is gorgeous. The environmental design was one of my favorite aspects of it, and it improved as the game went on. In fact, the game in general got better as it went on. By the end, I was more on board with it than I had been at any other time. The ending has great music, some interesting gameplay twists, and a very satisfying conclusion in the vein of A Link to the Past. What's most frustrating to me about the whole experience is that I feel like I could have loved this game if a few decisive changes had been made early in development. So to sum up, this still isn't an experience I really want to get into, but it's closer than anything has been since A Link Between Worlds. The basic gameplay of A Link Between Worlds with this game's story, characters and gimmick would have bowled me over; as it is, I enjoyed watching it, but I don't want to play it. What it has accomplished is changing my mind about Grezzo. I thought at one point that Grezzo had no ideas of its own and just went along with whatever Eiji Aonuma suggested, but this proves that there are people working there who want to do something unique. I hope Nintendo gives them that chance, and I suspect that their next game is one I'll want to buy. Thanks for your interest!
First time i played TWP it took me 64 hrs to get to the final boss ganandorf. then my save file got accidentally deleted before i actually fought him. and i had to do it all over again. funnily enough i dont recall it being tedious at all. only took me 25 hrs on my second time around.
At one point A Link to the past was the definitive Zelda. Then Ocarina was. Now, it's Wild. Skyward Sword HD reintroduce me to the concept of linear Zelda's and going back and playing Twilight Princess on GameCube has made me start craving the game on switch.
Great video, but one quick correction. While the TriForce wasn’t present for most of Skyward Sword, I would say it was important to the story, after all the whole second half of the game is searching for a way to destroy Demise, and once Link gets the Triforce he wishes for Demise to be destroyed.
It's a debatable point. I understand that the game talks a lot about the Triforce during the ending, and the final dungeon is arguably Triforce-themed. My point is that the importance of the Triforce isn't really set up during the rest of the game leading up to that ending. Skyward Sword is always leading you by the nose with some other plot-critical development or item (catching up to Zelda, infusing the Master Sword with the Sacred Flames, assembling the Song of the Hero, etc.), and frankly I felt like the Triforce was rather shoehorned into a story that it had little to do with. I appreciate your adding some nuance to this discussion, but I stand by my original position.
Eh, I dunno, it kind of depends on how you define "proper". Technically my videos are more like glorified PowerPoint presentations. But I appreciate the compliment. Thanks for watching.
You know, even while saying that, it didn't occur to me how similar their names are. But yeah, I've always felt like Malo shares the same "forget about the war, I've got money to make" wavelength as Milo Minderbinder.
If I had tried to write a Zelda video essay, it would’ve been exactly this video except way more rambly, a lot more poorly-written, and not nearly as effective
My biggest problem with new zelda is it some how manages to be an overly bland game that despite trying new mechanics and gameplay ideas never really fleshes them out in a way that benefits the zelda style of game. I feel like im playing a spin off instead of a mainline game. My biggest personal issues are the lack of koji kondo style soundtracks the largely empty world and the annoying weapon system. "Cool i just found this kick ass sword but wait it broke after only a few hits..." I traveled across the map to get it and I feel very much robbed. One thing I absolutely love is the climbing feature its probably the most satisfying mechanic in the game which says a lot.
if they just made zant's head look slightly cooler without the mask nobody would have a problem. if he had like some cool long hair he wouldnt come off like such a nerd at the end
Awesome fucking vidoe man. Twilight princess rocks my fucking socks and the intro is goated. I was thinking anout starting my youtube career making this exact video you beat me too it and I love it 😂
Hey, why not make that video anyway? There's room for more than one middling Twilight Princess retrospective on UA-cam. I know because I've already watched more than one. Seriously, though, making your own content is lots of fun. Don't let me dissuade you from trying it.
Twilight Princess (and Majoras Mask too) always stayed my favorite Zelda game and I‘m happy to see so much tp content recently. It would be nice if Nintendo would go back into that direction for the next Zelda game
Nintendo nowadays has become so distracted by money that they forget a good majority of Zelda fans disliked Skyward Sword. Yet we get a remaster of it on switch.
At this point with zelda as it is, the story and major dungeons ARE the side content. And the side content is literally almost the entire game. But it all still feels like side content.
Sad that the Zelda Team is sticking with the current Direction of the series. Also annoyed that Tears of the Kingdom didn't give us no DLC Shrines so we could finally Max Out BOTH Health and Stamina. It is my main gripe with the current series aside from the Weapon Durability System. I LOVED Majora's Mask, Twilight Princess and Wind Waker due to the Gameplay, Story and Soundtrack. I LOVED Skyward Sword HD as it felt much better to play than the Original. Sad that Wind Waker HD made the Second Playthrough into a Hard Mode. As Games go BOTW and TOTK were fun but there were plenty of things that annoyed me about them. As ZELDA games go they were "meh".
Technically 4 have been Direct Sequels: where the same Link is in both pairs of Games: Adventure of Link > Original NES Legend of Zelda; Link's Awakening > Link to the Past; Majora's Mask > Ocarina of Time; Phantom Hourglass > Wind Waker... Oracle of Ages Oracle of Seasons are a special case since you could choose either to be the first.
Technically I didn't say that Zelda had never had "direct sequels" before. I said that having Zelda games radically innovate on their predecessors was the norm, and that Tears of the Kingdom broke that precedent. This is particularly true for gameplay. Adventure of Link was a huge departure from the style of the original Legend of Zelda (being an actual RPG was only the half of it); Majora's Mask had a totally different story and structure from Ocarina of Time; Phantom Hourglass was much more broken up than Wind Waker, probably due to being made for a portable console, and had a new touch-based control scheme on top of many other mechanical changes. The Oracle games aren't sequels at all, by the way. They're two separate experiences designed and released at the same time. Link's Awakening is probably the closest thing to a retread on your list, but when you're actually playing it the game feels nothing like A Link to the Past. Again, being made for a handheld console was a huge game-changer for the design team at Nintendo. Your comment is disputing a point I never made. The problem isn't that Tears of the Kingdom is a direct sequel to Breath of the Wild (in fact, like most Zelda "sequels", it barely pays any attention to the story and themes of the game it's a sequel to). It's that Tears of the Kingdom is clearly from the same mold as Breath of the Wild, and after six years of waiting a lot of people found that pretty disappointing for a series that's normally as innovative as Zelda.
I suppose that at least some of the evaluation of these Zelda games has a great deal to do with where one entered the series. So many people talk about how wonderful OOT is, but I have no idea, because I didn't play it. My entry to the series was the first LOZ, and then Zelda II, and LTTP. After that, I didn't play another Zelda game until Twilight Princess, not because of any objection to the game, but because I didn't have access to the hardware on which to play it and because I spent a lot of my twenties distracted by other, pressing responsibilities. For me, TP felt like a natural continuation of LTTP; when I went back after TP and played WW (which I did like FWIW), the story felt so jarring to me because of the opening references to the "Hero of Time" that I didn't really connect with the storyline the entire time I played. For me, the 2D/2.5D games are the ones that resonate with me, and whose elements I look for in callbacks later in the series, and TP hits a lot of those notes. Things you mentioned as being critical elements of 3D Zelda games (sidekicks and transformations) either didn't exist (for the former) or didn't have a significant story impact (the latter) on any of the games, so to my mind, they are not essential parts of what makes a Zelda game. And, in some ways, LTTP has elements which can be found in BOTW and TOTK in fuller form: the ability to fight enemies with odd objects (being able to reflect Aghanim's magic with the net), not requiring you to complete story elements to face Ganon (e.g, you don't need to upgrade the Master Sword to the highest level, or even at all; you can permanently lose your shield, you can not upgrade your armor - and I have played through and finished the game in each of these ways - you can miss the moon pearl, you can tackle the dungeons out of order). I would suggest, further, that direct sequels (in story if not style and substance) are a hallmark of Zelda: LOZ, Zelda II, and LTTP are all set in the same continuity; WW is a direct sequel to OOT because it requires knowing that story as an entry point to really understanding the plot of WW (and MM Is a direct sequel to OOT); Four Swords, FSA, and Minish Cap are in a direct sequence as well. If anything, trilogies seem to be a defining hallmark of Zelda games: three games share an overall plot arc. Thus, my theory is that, for a lot of people, the Zelda game that underpins their idea of what the series should be about is the game they played in their most formative years, and for a lot of people who are really active in the Zelda community, that's going to be OOT, and I think that's why elements that are prominent in that game are held up as standards of what the games are supposed to be; however, for older players like me, our touchstone is LTTP, and in that respect, BOTW and TOTK hit a lot of the notes, save the importance of the Triforce which, I'm hoping, will be resolved in a forthcoming conclusion to the BOTW trilogy. But no matter what, I think we can all agree that Skyward Sword was demonstratively awful, taking the worst elements of the preceding LOZ games and making them central to the story.
You certainly have a unique and interesting perspective on the Zelda series, having skipped straight from A Link to the Past to Twilight Princess, and I think it's pretty cool that you consider TP a worthy follow-up to a game that it's separated from by more than a decade of changes to the series, including a shift to three-dimensional gameplay. And yes, I realize that what I've described aren't really "essential" to _all_ Zeldas; I was mostly talking about the 3D entries...and of course, the list still isn't bulletproof with regard to them. The list was more of a way of organizing my thoughts than an objective encapsulation of all things Zelda. I wouldn't call the sequels you're talking about "direct" because so much in-universe time separates them. Yes, the story of The Wind Waker references Ocarina of Time, but nothing that Link did in that game is actually _relevant_ to what the new Link does centuries later; they likely aren't even related (the same goes for the Hero's Shade and Link from TP). I actually disagree with you that having played OOT is necessary to truly appreciate WW's plot. As for Majora's Mask, it does indeed follow OOT's events directly, but because Termina is totally disconnected from Hyrule, nothing from OOT really affects what he does in MM. To me, a _direct_ sequel would be one in which the consequences of events from the previous game form the premise for the current game, like how Metroid Prime: Corruption is to Metroid Prime: Echoes. Seriously, though, just because I mildly disagree with your points doesn't mean I don't appreciate what you have to say here. You've given me a lot to think about.
OoT is a wonderful game, with a very rich story, plot and world-building. The dungeons are memorable, not only in soundtracks but in atmosphere. The main character, Link, evolves as does the world around him. Exploring Hyrule feels like an adventure. The side characters stay with you as do their sacrifices. It has a great ending. The only game that can be more beloved than OoT is Majora's Mask, which also has a rich world, a mythos that's unveiled to us through side stories, and a lot of side characters that make you feel. Twilight Princess, well, it has my favorite Hyrule. Empty, perhaps, but I loved hunting the heart pieces, so, it works. The story is good. The temples are good. But, OoT feels more magical. Last point, OoT to Majora's does feel like a sequel. But that's coming from someone that played them pretty much in the year they were released.
Very good video, describes my feelings about the series as it currently stands completely. Twilight Princess' flaws for me are in the combat and hyrule field's emptiness. If those were improved I'd think we'd reached the peak of Zelda
Yup! I love Twilight Princess and feel incredibly underwhelmed by BotW and TotK. These Wild Era Zelda games just feel kind of directionless to me. I can't help but think of them as ADHD simulators whenever I play them because they're designed to entice you in every which way and most of what you can engage with is so short and simple that they can be completed before you even need to bother engaging any deep focus at all. These games feel to me like a big empty world full of trivial mobile game-esq challenges, with garry's mod/dev tools enabled (and really these tools pale in comparison to garry's mod or real dev tools). It's just not possible to create the kinds of narrative arcs and player progression that I find satisfying with the kind of lack of direction these games have. Such openness is great for sandboxes, but not for adventures where the gameplay and narrative are coherent with each other. I've seen people complain that TP's opening takes too long, but that's actually one thing I love about TP. It's opening perfectly illustrates what I mean when I talk about gameplay and narrative coherence. The gameplay of TP's opening is slow and mundane, because Link's life as a farm boy in a little mountain village, before he gets thrust into adventure, is slow and mundane. I love that TP's opening almost feels like a life sim game like Stardew Valley. That's why I never get bored or feel like it's a tedious obstacle to the "real" game. I love to just walk around Ordon village and roleplay like I am just a farm boy, playing with the dogs, fishing, herding goats, and helping the townsfolk with mundane tasks. If anything, I usually draw TP's intro out longer to really soak in that first act of Link's peaceful life. It makes that moment when Link is force-ably transformed into a wolf and imprisoned REALLY impactful. You can feel what it feels like for Link's peaceful life to be taken away from him through the gameplay itself. TP isn't the only Zelda game to do this. It was a staple of 3D Zelda's (and even 2D Zelda's starting with A Link to the Past) before BotW. Oot had you run around the Kokiri forest like one of the Kokiri themselves, Wind Waker has you spend time on Outset as one of it's inhabitants, Skyward Sword let you live a few normal days on Skyloft. Even Majora's Mask, with it's unique approach, still has you confined to clock town in the early game so you have to sort of live amongst the people whose lives are at stake from the falling moon. BotW and TotK completely skip these kinds of fist act gameplay intros and thrust you right into a weird amalgamation of the second and third acts.
@56ty_ wym the story is way better in rdr2 as well as the many activities you can do. And Oh god the sidequests are 10/10. Only thing to do in botw is collect korok seeds and the sidequests are mid at best. The shrines are pretty fun though
If I want to play a fun, creative game with cool lore sprinkled throughout, and epic replayability, I play BotW or TotK. If I want an actual good story, I read a damned book.
This video currently has 🤍 *2,294* likes and 🖤 *117* dislikes.
P.S. For those of you who are new to the channel, I pin a comment like this on every major video to compensate for UA-cam removing the public dislike count. I think people deserve to know the whole story of how viewers feel about my videos.
P.P.S. I'm completely stunned at how much this video has blown up already compared to everything else I've done. Thank you all so much for your kind comments. It's good to know so many Twilight Princess fans are out there!
Nah, 350 likes and 4 dislikes. don't lie :p
@@xaoz2362 As far as the likes are concerned, I'm always going to be a little behind on that because I don't check this video and update this comment every day. I'm not quite _that_ self-absorbed.
As for the dislikes, which I'd say are more important since UA-cam won't make them public, I'm going by what UA-cam tells me through my account, and it's higher than 4. If you're using one of those plugins and it says 4, either it's malfunctioning or UA-cam is deliberately making me think more people dislike my video than actually did (which would be kind of insane).
Do you know something I don't?
@@cinnamonnoir2487 It was more about the fact you said that you have 21 dislikes which wasn't accurate for me at least... I don't expect you to update it or anything like that.
It was just that your dislikes were way lower than you said they were.
BASED
1.5 likes and 31 dislikes, you can download a browser extension to restore dislike count~!
My favourite aspect of Twilight Princess is that EVERY SINGLE dungeon item made me say "This is the coolest item ever!" until I saw the next one and said the same thing again. And I meant it every time.
But then you didn't get to use half of them again. Situationally useful at best. Its not like rushing for the wand
@a2 True, my comment was about the initial feeling of first getting the item, but you are right in that the item's usefulness does wear off quickly after leaving the dungeon.
There are still a few occasional uses, but it would be nice if there were more.
Making Spinner move faster than running (but slower than Epona) would make it useful almost anywhere, plus it would be super fun to just beyblade around for the rest of the game.
Clawshot would be more useful if more things were valid targets, like how the OoT Hookshot can target almost anything made of wood. So even if you're not solving a puzzle you can still use it to get around by making shortcuts and such.
Ball and Chain is already a really effective weapon against many enemies, I don't think it needs a buff.
Hero's Bow doesn't need a buff, it's the best ranged weapon in the game.
Gale Boomerang doesn't need a buff, it's the best boomerang of ANY zelda game.
Dominion Rod is basically only used to solve puzzles, although it does solve a LOT of puzzles. I'm not sure if people even want to use it again after all the Owl Statues.
If it was to have an additional use, then maybe it could be used to control enemies somehow?
Either directly like in Mario Odyssey, or indirectly like the TotK Muddle Bud effect.
Apart from dominion rod
Yeah, I still think the spinner is pretty cool even though you never use it outside the dungeon except for a few exceptions
@@FinesseFather If it wasn't slower than walking I would use it everywhere, no question. So much fun.
I’m loving the Twilight Princess appreciation I’ve been seeing on UA-cam lately
Me too!
me too. i'm so glad people are coming around to it. it was one of the first video games i ever played and still one of my favorites of all time
The algorithm has blessed us 🙏
Yessir
I've never understood the hate for games that focus on telling a story. When I played TOTK, I just didn't feel super connected to it. I don't love or hate TOTK, it's kind of just there. Twilight Princess on the other hand has stayed with me for a majority of my life since I love the story and world so much. I'm genuinely sad to say that I don't really care about TOTK.
Yeah, me too. My love for TOTK came entirely from the music and the emotions I felt at hearing some of it or seeing Zelda sacrifice herself, but I never really liked the story, or even felt like there was one. I feel really sad seeing TOTK lack the story and emotional connection I felt to other games, like Twilight Princess.
@catdownthestreet The death of the Queen "suddenly appears and stabs them from behind" was really lame.
@@cfowler7936 Yeah. That's not what I was talking about in my comment, but you're not wrong, either
For me, the open, non-linear world was a double-edged sword, because there's very little to drive you forward. Yeah, Ganondorf's coming back, but the world will happily wait while you spend literal months goofing around catching butterflies. All the story beats are only centred around the four villages and their respective dungeon, but in Twilight Princess there were so many hype moments between temples. Like the Bridge Battle, Midna's Lament and many others.
TP's story completely drops off half way through.
Can we just get a twilight princess port to the switch already?😅
I've been waiting years for that and since the next console is coming next year, I'm pretty sure we'll never get it on switch.
A millions times over yes🙏
I got tired of waiting so im playing it on the steam seck along with WW
I want this JUST so I can play it on yuzu with 4k graphics.
I just fear they'd mess it up like the wii u port...
Seriously it’s killing me
The amount of twilight princess videos popping up is nice to see
Nerrel said it best, TOTK is the Legend of Sloppy seconds. TP actually took the world from OoT and themes from MM and combined them into its own story about Power and corruption and celebrated multiple aspects of past Zelda games as if it were a swan song to the traditional series. That's why I love it.
ppl who dont like twilight princess because it "trys too hard to be edgy" are just scared of authenticity and heart
In claiming that Twilight Princess is shallow, they only really reveal how shallow they are. They don't really understand the games themes and messages, they just see something with a dark tone and assume it must be edgy for edginess sake.
its not even edgy either lmao
"eugh Link has a whole village to take care of and inspires everyone he meets? too tryhardy!"
It was a knee jerk reaction from Nintendo in response to people whining about Wind Waker. It's a product that is completely antithetical to heart.
@@bloodykun4443 just because they didnt want to make it doesnt mean its not one of the most Zelda-y games in the franchise
@@Kitty255Again Most Zelda-y? By what standard? It is one of the most linear, bogged down, bland and derivative - not any of the qualities I’d look for in your average Zelda game. All the best ones try something new and generally try to keep players engaged with plenty of different ways to play.
Im really surprised that the fact that there is zero triforce mentioned, used and emphasized in any part of the game, in game, art design and pubblicity in Tears Of The Kingdom hasnt been a bigger deal.
Its almost like if Star Wars never mentioned and used the Force out of nowhere.
How have people barely talked about it?
Something like this i wouldve expected it to be big news.
And for people who dont remember, in Breath Of The Wild, even tho its not a big focus, the triforce is mentioned and used by Zelda, so i wasnt expecting the sequel to not even mention it.
I'm actually not that surprised. The Triforce has been fading out of Zelda pretty gradually for more than a decade now. Like I said in the video, Skyward Sword totally forgot about it until the end and then just shoved it haphazardly into the plot.
The moment that they retconned the three Goddesses of Hyrule into virtual nonexistence and focused more on "Hylia" (who doesn't seem to be the goddess _of_ anything as far as I can tell), the eventual abandonment of the Triforce as a plot point was probably inevitable.
@@cinnamonnoir2487 it will be very weird in future for Zelda to completely abbandon it but it seems to be invitable like you said
But it makes sense if i think more about it after all Botw e Totk were supposed to be reboots of the franchise so it will be interesting to see where it will go from here and if they're gonna make even more changes, and i wonder what art style theyll use for it because every zelda game has their specific ones so looking foward to that too
@cinnamonnoir2487 the only way I've ever been able to get over SS's lack of the Three Goddesses is that Hylia seems like a lesser goddess than the Three. The Three created everything, and Nintendo never said where evil originated. For me, that seems like Hylia was created as a taskmaster and Demise was, either accidentally or as a balance, created in the process. Course that is headcanon as they never gave any info
@@cinnamonnoir2487 It's no wonder you've made a video defending one of the worst titles in the series when the fact that the triforce was deliberately hidden in Skyward Sword went way over your head.
@@bloodykun4443 "Deliberately hidden".
More like deliberately ignored. In previous games the Triforce had some metaphorical or symbolic significance as a combination of the three attributes of Power, Courage and Wisdom. In Skyward Sword it becomes a vaguely powerful MacGuffin that Demise just wants and Hylia hides inside Skyloft.
No symbolism there, and no real relevance to a plot that's almost 100% about Zelda being a goddess reincarnate and upgrading the Master Sword. This was a lazy token inclusion of the Triforce, and I'm not surprised that Fujibayashi didn't even bother to keep it around in his two most recent games. He has no flair for using it to tell a story.
That plot point didn't go over my head, it went under my expectations. I'm aware of the plot of Skyward Sword; I did finish it, after all. And I'm not going to emulate you by bashing it as "one of the worst titles in the series" because there are quite a few things I like about it. If you weren't such a bigot about Twilight Princess you might be able to like some things about it too.
37:32 I love Midna. She is really the best written companion in the series. But there is one side character who comes really close to her, that almost everyone forgets about: Zelda from Spirit Tracks. She’s got character, fulfill an important role in their adventure, and shows a lot of emotions. Even the relationship between Links grows deeper during the game progress. Very underestimated companion.
ST Zelda is fantastic, still My favorite incarnation of the princess yet
I like ezlo a lot too
Yes! The only thing that keeps me from replaying Spirit Tracks constantly is the gameplay. It's too tedious and no matter how much I love the story and Ghost Zelda I will never be able to get past the stylus thing.
ST Zelda is the best companion. Just sucks that she is stuck in ST. I'd much rather replay PH if I had the choice between the two.(Most people would disagree with me on this tho)
I really appreciated this video, Twilight princess is my favourite Zelda game and I always find myself comparing BOTW and TOtK to it. I especially liked it when you said they the storytelling is really good in Twilight and how Link is not just a hero because of destiny but also a personal hero because of how he inspires and interacts with his friends
Yeah, that's always been really important to me. I don't care if they keep making Breath of the Wild-likes from now on, but Link needs a real character arc already.
Wind Waker was also great at portraying Link as an unlikely hero who stands up for his friends.
i think this is why the common critique of "the opening of twilight princess is too slow and boring" really gets my goat. like, yeah... the game takes its time to establish link as a character and his relationships with the people of ordon village. that's a good thing! it gives weight to his journey and gives us a reason to care about his adventure. you care about what happens to him and his friends.
in contrast, botw throws you into the adventure first, and THEN tries to establish link and his relationships after the fact. it made the whole game's story fall really flat for me. i found myself not really caring about botw link the way i did for past iterations.
@@hotgirledits2000 you are exactly right and I fully agree with you
@@hotgirledits2000people say the same shit for red dead 2's prologue. Do people not know what establishing characters and context is???
@@hylianro right? like, sure, if i booted up rdr2 and arthur was immediately dropped into a lush and immersive open world with no context, that'd be fun, i guess. but the prologue is why i'm crying 30 hours later.
I also want to point out the music in ToTK
its so empty compared to the grand themes of TP and older zelda
Right? I get that the music very much goes along with the theming of both BOTW and TOTK, but it's still so....empty and emotionless for the most part. There's really no BOTW OG songs I remember aside from the shrine theme and the guardian theme. The only other songs I remember from that game are remixes of already known songs. (zelda's lullaby, hyrule castle theme, zora's domain. That's ALL I remember. Zelda's been known so well for their memorable music and I just don't get that at all from the new games. It SUCKS.
I totally agree! Like for me the only good theme in TOTK is colgera's boss music, but I know that's just because it reuses the dragon roost island theme from wind Walker (which is my favourite track from the whole series)
Twilight Princess has always been my favorite Zelda title. I've put way more hours into botw/totk, but the sheer love I have for this game spans 16 long long years.
The two mechanics I desperately hope return to the franchise are transformations and music as a tool of progression. I miss playing songs. I miss navigating the world in a way that's different from the Link we're presented with at the beginning.
I also love the Hero of Twilight so much as a character. We watch his trials and victories in real time, and that's so important to me as a player.
I miss playing songs as well. That's one of those things that Skyward Sword kind of pretended to do and then they just stopped trying for it.
I've loved Twilight Princess ever since my initial playthrough back when it released for the Wii, but playing through Breath of the Wild was what made me realize that Twilight was my favourite in the series. It is a near-perfect distillation of the series' identity. Expanding on that identity is fine, but the way the last 3 3D Zelda games have worked to outright ignore it has been really disheartening to witness.
Another thing about the items, it feels super lacking only having four in BotW/TotK. Sure, they might have a lot of uses, but that's not always the point. There was something special about the little niche tools you pick up in the classic games. There might not be a whole lot of statues to use the dominion rod on, or a whole lot of tracks to ride on the spinner, but that made them feel special. It made the things that used them feel unique. With the slate/ultrahand abilities everything ends up feeling incredibly samey with no progression whatsoever after the first hour of the game.
Instead of alternate forms being an aspect of classic zelda I'd say some instrument of sort or way to play music is one actually. you have the flute in the zelda 1, ocarina in a link to the past, ocarina of time and majoras mask, the howling in twilight princess, you conduct the wind like someone conducts music in windwaker, youplay the harp in skyward sword, the oracle games has one instrument per version like the harp in ages, sprit tracks has pipes. Not all instruments are freely playable but to have them involved in the story is commonplace
You make an excellent case for musical instruments being an essential element of classic Zelda. Of course, in doing so you're helping to make my point, because this is _also_ something missing from Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom.
I don't believe that I stated at any point in the video that my list of classic Zelda elements was exhaustive. Of course there are more things that older Zelda games have in common, but my goal was just to show how completely Breath of the Wild overhauled the classic approach, and I think my list does a good job of demonstrating that.
Nevertheless, I appreciate the input. If I were ever to make a video just about the elements that make older Zelda games what they are, musical instruments would definitely make the list.
P.S. Incidentally, in addition to all the instances you mentioned, Link's Awakening not only has an ocarina but is also specifically about finding eight musical instruments to play a song.
Current Zelda left J.R.R.Tolkien behind, therefore the most Tolkien-inspired Zelda (Twilight Princess) has the most of what BOTW/TOTK now lacks. It's as simple as that. Zelda used to be very Tolkien, but in recent years the mainline series has literally just been aping Princess Mononoke while awkwardly trying to keep the original Tolkien-esque world around. The massive plot emphasis put on the Shiekah (nippon ninjas) and their comically advanced technology beginning with BOTW was a HUGE hint to the direction the new creators were steering the ship. The series is no longer a unique and well-balanced combination of East and West, but totally Ghibli with a Zelda skin on top.
i feel like an insane person whenever people praise botw/totk because "it's just like princess mononoke!" because to me, the thinly-veiled references to ghibli films in these two games have always felt kind of... cheap? it would be one thing if these games were inspired by ghibli on a deeper, thematic level- eg, princess mononoke's themes of nature vs industrialization could have been a great foundation on which to craft a zelda game. but what it feels like instead is that someone in marketing had the brilliant realization that many adult-aged zelda fans are also ghibli fans, so if you throw them a ghibli reference, they'll go "oh yay, i love hayao miyazaki!" the only purpose seems to be to remind you of a different thing, and hope the positive associations from that thing carry over to the game you're currently playing. just a total lack of substance
@@hotgirledits2000Ironically, the 'nature vs industrialization' theme is extremely tolkienesque as well.
@@Den.Vos.Reynaerde WORD! good point!
Bro I swear you haters would make up ANY type of excuse instead of acknowledging many more people love the new style of Zelda 😂
@@56ty_ mama that’s literally the point op is making
I think its important to point out that in link between worlds you may have been able to rent all the items and tackle the dungeons in mostly any order but that didnt mean the dungeons didnt have meaningful items contained within that impacted your game. I quite enjoyed the subversion that you get all your dungeon items up front and within each dungeon were other upgrades to link such as a better tunic, ores to upgrade the master sword, and a better shield. I felt like it struck a great balance between nonlinear freedom of story progression and the linear power progression from a more traditional zelda.
That's a fair point, and of course A Link to the Past also did this in several of its dungeons (notably the Ice Palace and Turtle Rock), but the point that I and a few commenters on my videos have made is that these in-dungeon upgrades have virtually nothing to do with solving puzzles. This means that the way you solve puzzles in A Link Between Worlds rarely comes as a surprise because it's set up in advance via the items, although again, there are exceptions (the Dark Palace, for instance). My one big problem is that several of its in-dungeon items aren't _unique_ (three of them are Master Ores, for instance), and that makes the dungeons feel less unique.
Calling the in-dungeon items in A Link Between Worlds "meaningful" is a bit of a stretch, though. They help you, but aside from the Titan's Mitt none of them is even used to gate off content, let alone changing the way you interact with the world. The Pegasus Boots and Flippers are much more meaningful in that sense, and I appreciate that you can't buy either of them; you have to find them out in the overworld, which feels good. It's just that in A Link to the Past there was a lot _more_ that you had to find that way. If we're not going to have the classic "items in dungeons" approach any more, we could at least have puzzle-solving tools that are a challenge to find out in the overworld.
That said, A Link Between Worlds is quite a good Zelda game, and if you think the formula _needed_ to compromise, then yes, it's also a good compromise. I have never agreed with the premise that there was anything "stale" about the classic formula, but I do think A Link Between Worlds is an example of changing it in a good way.
I wasn't even looking at the screen and when you said "This Kid" I immediately knew EXACTLY who you were talking about 😂
He's such a "that kid". Probably the most "that kid" character in Zelda history.
What baffles me is how they failed to integrate the traditional style dungeons into the overworkd in ToTK even though TP did it a while back, the only difference being the linearity in how to pogress.
Love that Elden Ring did legacy dungeons in the overworld though, just phenomenal.
I think echoes of Wisdom is a good balance between the open and classic Zeldas.
Except for the Echoes menu. That needs to change badly.
I honestly had hoped that Tears of the Kingdom would have taken from Twilight Princess. I had thought that the hand that Link gets would be a companion, housing a spirit or something that would lead/give story elements throughout the game.
Frankly, I had thought that the corruption that nearly killed Link would be a 'link' between him and Ganondorf and we'd hear Ganondorfs thoughts on different locations as well as motivations throughout the game.
I had hoped temples would be added to the environment that were larger than what we got and that we'd be able to explore them for lore and a reward.
Honestly, I don't see why we can't get items in dungeons anymore. Can you imagine getting a Hookshot that would help navigate the terrain better? They could have given us unbreakable weapons that have a recharge time like the Master Sword or need upgrading to be at full power and have lore tied to them. Just SOMETHING to make me want to explore and be rewarded for it. Instead of just randomly having chests in the depths with clothes in it, have temples we'd have to go through to get the clothing of past heroes as well as a weapon/shield they used.
They could still have the 4 items at the start of the game giving you access to everywhere, but it'd be so much more if there were items hidden in temples that opened up exploration even more or were weaknesses to certain enemy types.
Have the Light Arrows be available to get to help with the battle against Ganondorf, but lock them away in the temple in the sky that's difficult to get to.
It's so frustrating to see there are ways to still stay true to the original Zelda formula for older fans to enjoy that they just ignore.
For the story elements of what you're talking about here, I think you're taking a greater interest in the story as a linchpin of the game's design than Nintendo does. Nintendo these days is not that interested in telling stories, and the stories of most of their main-series games are deemphasized in favor of the gameplay. Your ideas are pretty interesting, but they would require Nintendo to spend more time on the story, and draw more attention to it, than I think they want to.
As for the more gameplay-related stuff, Nintendo is clearly very committed to the sandbox design approach, which means they can't put items in dungeons because that would limit the player's exploration until they finished those dungeons; sandboxes are supposed to be totally free and open from the beginning or at least very early on. I don't think the sandbox approach is actually a good fit for the Zelda franchise, but it's what they wanted with Breath of the Wild, and Tears of the Kingdom really is just a sequel to Breath of the Wild at the end of the day, with all the same fundamental design elements.
Here's hoping they do some of these things next time.
I am the single human being on Earth who was thrilled to play as Wolf Link. I didn't think of it as a punishment except in the very first instance. Apart from the special sword techniques, you are just as powerful. I wish the animals had more to say, but even Epona, EPONA!, has nothing of value to comment on.
I love Twilight Princess for the atmosphere, but I can recognize that it is on the thinner side, a bit desolate... I love it though, and hope it is not merely because it was the first Zelda game I ever played. And, honestly, the only one I truly liked.
Once you could switch back and forth freely lots of times I would play as Wolf Link a lot. Although the sword combat was so satisfying I had no issue using that either.
Twilight Princess is my favorite Zelda game. The story is amazing and so is its more realistic artstyle and it has the most heroic Link. Link has the most times of Link saving the people out off all of the Zelda games. Thanks for talkiny about this.
Edit: Forgot to add that the only complaint is there wasn't more Goron wrestling.
I would say that some of the character models haven’t aged the best.
Maybe not the most instances of rescuing people, as both MM and some of the 2Ds may be able to hold that title.
The Triforce being absent from BOTW/TOTK is even more jarring when you see it depicted everywhere (on busts in Hyrule Castle, some iconography, etc) in-game.
"Over reacting to anything said about Zelda" Nintendo lost money on a game because the western fans didn't want Toon Link, they wanted what was presented at space world 2000 and instead got Windwaker 3 years later, so Twilight Princess is the way it is because of that space world 2000 LOZ teaser trailer.
Okay, maybe "overreacting" was a bit of an overstatement. But it does strike me that the people at Nintendo who make Zelda seem to take criticism a lot more to heart than, for example, the Mario team. And Zelda has seen a lot of crazy tone and style swings over the years.
@@cinnamonnoir2487 you're not wrong, Zelda's one of their longest running game series, even at the time of Windwaker it was their 12th game for the series and it didn't do very well at the time, so they took that criticism to make Twilight Princess, they listened just enough to provide a fun game. As for the tone shifts that's probably to try and make the series seem fresh in new ways given it is somewhat the same story each time, big bad shows up in some form, threatens princess and hyrule, and it's up to Link to thwart those evil ambitions, that core formula for the games hasn't changed much in all this time, with some exceptions.
You really can't overstate that Spaceworld demo's impact! People immediately wanted OOT with better graphics (who can blame them) and Nintendo had not scratched that itch before changing things up with WW, so there was disappointment
I know it's been almost a year since you made this video, but I'm glad to hear the way you presented everything.
Also, I enjoy replaying every couple years and I end up making it through the tutorial section in about 15 minutes. The three biggest time wasters are the Goat Wrangling (If you're bad at it like me) the basket walking with Colin's Mom, and MAYBE collecting the rupees for the slingshot.
I absolutely love Midna.
She's not just the best sidekick of the whole series, she is just such a well written character. It's easy to understand her motives once you learn her whole story and this makes it even more touching when she comes around and changes her goals. And on top of that she's just funny.
Love the vid. My least favorite argument from people who love the new Zelda games is that they needed to drop so many aspects of the old games in order to be "evolve." So they "evolved" Zelda by gutting some of my favorite stuff from the old games and making it more like every other open world game that preaches freedom. If I wanted to play a new release that gives me the feelings BOTW does, I'd have a plethora to choose from. But what other modern AAA games really fit the niche old Zelda games used to fill? Despite the massive sales numbers, I hope they swing the pendulum a bit in the other direction soon!
The games already did this with OOT, which tossed out most of what was created for the games that came before in order to make something new.
We should fully expect that in a decade or two they'll reinvent the franchise again once the current phase runs out of steam.
@@danieladdled OOT has waaay more in common with how the 2D games were starting to shape up. Hell, there are some people who complain that it's too _similar_ to ALTTP in structure. It felt like a natural evolution of the series into 3D, building on what came before with new technology. Whereas BOTW felt like they saw the complaints about linearity in Skywards Sword and chucked everything out the window to prove those people wrong.
@@kingbump6829 by this analogy they saw all of the complaints about how Breath of the Wild was too different from the Ocarina-descended games, but instead of deciding to throw everything out they decided to double down on their design decisions (weapon durability, difficulty scaling, adapting the same map, building on the same story, etc).
It seems like a disservice to the artists that created this piece of work to write it off as overreacting to criticism instead of the sincere intent of the artists. It also seems hard to defend that argument when they did exactly the opposite with this release.
@@danieladdled Why didn't they change TOTK to fit people complaining? Because, unlike Skyward Sword, complainers like me are a large minority. Unlike Skyward Sword, BOTW got unbridled praise across the board, GOTY, and outsold every other game in the series with article after article specifically citing it's massive differences in formula. They didn't do "the opposite with this release;" they just went where the success was. I don't see a clearer example than literally doing the same thing twice, for the first time in the series history, because people loved it.
@@kingbump6829 both you and the video are leaving out A Link Between Worlds, which did reuse a map, story elements, game mechanics, and more with the direct predecessor A Link to the Past.
Reusing a game setting is not unprecedented, and neither is a near total reinvention of the franchise.
I haven't really enjoyed Totk do fsr and by god I don't understand the unbridled praise it seems to garner everywhere. This video has been a slight breath of fresh air. Unfortunately the runaway success of Botw might have entrenched an ironically even more restrictive formular in the frnachise than OOT ever did. However as you pointed out that remains to be seen. You are also correct that I miss the Triforce (and tbh all of the loosely connected lore) far more than I would have ever thought prior to Botw. For me at least Link's Awakening was an Awakening. I was more engaged in it (and even SS's remake) than Botw after a good few hours not to mention totk. There's just something about the absolute boundless nature of modern Zelda that unfortunately doesn't appeal to me. Twilight Princess though is probably worth a replay at some point. It's been quite a while since my last playthrough.
Overall I've gotta commend you for some unique points and perspective! Good job with the video!
Thanks very much. And much as this might seem like an odd sentiment coming from me, I don't think we should despair about the future of Zelda. There are still a lot of creative people at Nintendo, and even they would get fed up with rehashing the same experience if they had to do it over and over again. I've got my fingers crossed.
Why did they make the mistake of rehashing Botw with TotK? This is why I don't have full faith in then anymore. Where is the ambition at Nintendo these days? Their game design has been purposely making almost every franchise easier than in the past. The Mario RPG remake and tTYD made certain mechanics more forgiving; Mario Wonder only got challenging in the last 10% of the game; etc. They're not longer crafting difficulty curves and instead want everyone to 'finish' their games on a first playthrough. With TotK it's shocking how much of a regash it is and even more that the devs refused to give fans better dungeons and enemy variety which were 2 of the biggest complaints of botw. I think there are a lot of negative trends going on with Nintendo and the industry right now. Depth and challenge is at a lowpoint.
I know this an older comment, but if you want a video that breaks down why TotK is a bad game. There is a UA-camr named skittybitty who very recently made a video discussing it at length of what’s wrong with it on every level. From the environment, gameplay, and story. The video is simply called “I hate tears of the kingdom”. I highly recommend it.
Nitpicking:
In OoT Link was not the only forest child/Kokiri with a fairy. He was the only Kokiri WITHOUT a fairy, until the events of the game started and the Great Deku Tree sent Navi to bring Link to him.
Yes, I know. That was my bad. I actually address that mistake in the video description.
Thanks for bringing it up. I would never criticize other people for nitpicking when it's something I do all the time.
Oh, I totally overlooked it in the description. I'm sorry!
After watching (almost) the complete video (I will watch the last 5 minutes later today) I have to say the fairy thing was the only nitpicking I found. :D
The rest of the video is really great and I agree with almost everything.
Awesome work!
Your last point it so hard. TP's my favorite Zelda, but the thing that sticks out the most is how intrinsically tied together all the games are. Like, OoT was designed as a sort of prequel to ALttP. And then the next three games after OoT were all very very different sequels that add so much meaning to the themes and ideas of the Hero. These connections mean the world to me, because the Hero of Time became so much more than the title of the fame he was introduced in.
We haven't gotten that feeling back since TP. If Nintendo wants to tell us all about this new era and the open world Hyrule, then let us see it from different points in time.
Twilight Princess is the best Zelda ever. I experienced the magic of Ocarina of Time in 1998 as the first 3D Zelda. It was amazing, but Twilight Princess did it better in every way.
I feel like every TP video essay I see is either “Twilight Princess was the greatest Zelda!” or “How did Nintendo even release this barely finished game?!” 😂
43:48 This just smacks TP haters/TotK fanboys (both things if text wasn't clear enough) with a glove, it having a brick inside. Most TP haters I've met showed their hate because I showed my preferance over one of their favorites.
Its taken me years, but I've learned to love Zant for that exact reason! He is a man child! Zant turning out to be such a joke of a man really highlights TP's themes of maturity.
For a long time I hated that such a cool, scary, and imposing villain turned out to be a total joke. But that fits. He's not the ruler _because_ he's a childish loser who never matured. Midna, by contrast, grows and matures. When she fails, she accepts that it might be her fault and works to fix it. Zant just throws a temper tantrum when things don't go his way!
They're both selfish at the start of the story and blame others for their woes. Their choice to either double down on the behavior or not is such a good story element. Zant is the perfect contrast to Midna.
What we think to be a cold and sinister person methodically attacking Hyrule is in reality a childish loser. He threw a tantrum and the result was the devastation we see in the game. Like it's such a perfect level of fucked up for a story. I absolutely love it.
Zant really captured the essence of a lot of immature people in the real world.
Also the fact that during his entire battle, he's copying other bosses, and during the final stage one to one you realize he doesn't even know how to use swords to fight. Never ceases to amaze me how clever it is in terms of character storytelling. He's been cosplaying as a villain the whole time but turns out he's an unimaginative useless manchild haha.
Heck, it is very much not just a character development thing either. Even before becoming a better person, Midna still cared about her people, while Zant betrayed them as soon as he could. His desire to show off his newly gained power(by forcefully taking over another realm) he got from a random deity he just happened to meet yesterday is the exact type of reason they were banished to begin with.
I like that you separate your personal opinion and bias from the analytical/logical point you are trying to get across. It's a pleasure to see your skills at work.
Thank you!
Bro by the title alone I think this is going to be a great video! It is so true that breath of the wild and tears are missing so much heart of Zelda and how Twilight Princess has what it's missing in spades.
What you said about Ganondorf's thoughts at 24:10 does make some sense. When he entered the Sacred Realm to steal the Triforce in Ocarina of Time, the Gods split it up. It seems very rigged, though not impossible. He is destined for part of it, and it seems thats something the Gods just cant control
One of the most interesting things about Wind Waker is that the 3D Zelda game with the most cartoonish aesthetic also had the most realistically written characters. Link actually behaves like a child, albeit a responsible one; Tetra (i.e. Zelda) isn't comfortable with her role as the protector of the Triforce of Wisdom; and Ganon is portrayed as a man first and an irrepressible fountain of evil second.
Even in great Zelda games like Ocarina of Time, Ganon is often portrayed simply as an evil power-worshiper who destroys everything he touches. Wind Waker shook things up by having him accuse the _gods_ of destroying Hyrule just to stop him, as if they didn't care about the fate of Hyrule's people. When he says, "Your gods destroyed you!", he's insinuating that their scorched-earth approach is evidence that they hate and disdain all of humanity, not just him.
That isn't the perspective of the game, though. The King of Red Lions confronts Ganon with another interpretation, which is that the gods meant to free the people of Hyrule from a past where Ganon would always threaten to dominate them. The Great Sea isn't a lush, fertile kingdom like Hyrule, but the people there are happy and free from coercion; it's sort of like the contrast between Greece and Persia in ancient history. This is why he makes a wish on the Triforce, not to restore Hyrule to its former glory, but to let Hyrule disappear for the sake of the future. The king of Hyrule is willing to let the past go, which includes letting his old self die; that's what distinguishes him from his would-be usurper, Ganon.
It's a very thought-provoking bit of writing, and the fact that the gods don't speak for themselves allows you to draw your own conclusions. There's more than just art design that makes Wind Waker my favorite Zelda game.
Until something comes along to top it, I say Twilight Princess was The Legend of Zelda's Last Great Epic, not to say SS or Botw/Totk were not somewhat epic in their own right but none of them truely approached the Emotional Depth of Twilight Princesses themes and naritive and gameplay marrage.
Except now with Aonuma saying that the "open air" style will be the format for Zelda games going forward, I doubt the pendulum will swing back any time soon. Especially because as everyone points out "but the sales numbers!"
At this point the only things I can really hope for with Zelda games are remakes of older titles. And with Pokemon and Sonic also leaning heavily into the open world/pure freedom type of game design, it doesn't seem like this trend is going to die any time soon.
The industry has gotten so fat and disgustingly bloated on fiat currency, it needs another 80s crash, no joke. Something to burn the chaff away and bring back some true creativity and CONTENT that is kept in the game for Launch, and not withheld for DLC... DLC and streaming services allowed the Consumer to destroy >themselves
@@nillynush4899I dont know if it needs a crash but it certaintly needs a widespread boycott of some kind which is unfortunatley extremely unlikely. Typical consumers dont care about quality all that much when they only buy 1-2 EA / Activision games a year. Even other studios commit the same sins while taking advantage of your more experience / demanding consumers through false advertising, poor preformance, microtransactions.etc The entire industry has just learned to abuse the consumer because no matter what, there will always be a loyal fanbase who will buy your content every. Single. Time. Without care nor concern for what effect it might have on the industry as a whole.
That doesn't mean we'll never get dungeons.
@@Krshna28 Oh yeah dont get me wrong the industry is not entirely bankrupt. This year alone weve gotten tons of amazing games even I recognize that. Totk didnt have the best dungeons but I still love that game. Maybe it doesnt hold the same spot that TP does. But that doesnt mean that totk doesnt scratch that open world itch very VERY well. What it lacks in some areas in makes up for in others.
I suppose its about time we recognize that the reason why most open world games feel like a boring checklist is because they are actuallu extremly hard to make. Trying to fit story in is even harder due to the varied and disjointed nature of the players own freedom. Yet, in my opinion totk and botw cracked the code on how to make open-world exploration exciting and fun.
@@Krshna28 Probably not, especially if Aonuma did indeed say they older Zeldas were "too restrictive" and prefer making them like this. Even if we got a new 2D Zelda down the line, it would probably be like A Link Between Worlds, non-linear and giving you the item before you go in.
People loving Majora because it’s dark and depressing but hate Twilight Princess for that same reason never made sense to me… I personally find Majora irritating to actually play and loved playing Twilight Princess
I'd say weather Twilight Princess or the Wind Waker is the best Zelda game honestly depends on the day of the week. 😅
Nintendo is really missing a beat by not having a middle aged past his prime but still capable Link that has themes of aging and overcoming your age to reclaim the glory of your younger days to help those who depend on you. Now that a large part of the fan base are in their late 30s and 40s.
When I enter the Goron Mines boss chamber, I think “Hi, Balrog. You shall not pass!”
I would love a remake of twilight princess including the complemented lore in the manga, I would die happy if that happened
Yes, the manga made the story so much better!
I agree!
I disagree with you but I am not very good at putting my feelings into words.
It's still a very well made video which took me away from the hell hole that is youtube shorts.
Have a nice day
Thank you for finding something nice to say despite our disagreement.
I'm sorry you have trouble putting your feelings into words, but I'm sure that if you write them down every now and then you'll get better at it. You could even make videos yourself.
You have a nice day as well.
Malo Mart is one of the quirkiest most off the wall thing Zelda has ever done.
I would argue that Majora’s mask is closer to the botw/totk relationship than Zelda/zelda 2
Love the video and really loved the analysis. I know not everyone likes SS, but I think it deserves more credit as a Zelda game. Great dungeons, a Disney-esque story, one of the best if not the best soundtrack in the series, it's a quality edition to the IP.
I've been saying Twilight Princess is PEAK Zelda since 2006 but y'all honestly went *Laalaalaalaa!"*
Thank you for so succinctly putting to words my issues with botw and totk at the end. I don’t dislike them for the games they are, but rather the trend the represent; the homogenization of gaming and a bleak future where every major release is an open world craft-a-thon with parrying and dodge rolls.
You're welcome! You've quite succinctly described my problems with this trend as well.
It is funny. Classic zelda games invented the dodge rolls you hate so much and new zelda games don’t have those.
@@hododod246Ah yes let's take a single detail from the message and twist it into something the commenter didn't mean at all.
10:24
I thought he was the only one without a fairy and that’s what made him an outcast til Navi was told to go to him from the great deku.
Is my memory wrong? I thought the kids like treated him like shit for not having a fairy
No for sure they all had fairy’s.
I wasn’t nitpicking btw I was just sitting here like wait wtf am I remembering wrong?
I know you weren't nitpicking, and you're correct, but you must not have read the description or the three other comments in which someone pointed out this mistake.
Sorry for making you distrust your memory.
@@cinnamonnoir2487 ha you’re right I didn’t read the description. I always forget to. My bad
10:24 Actually, he was the only one WITHOUT a fairy until one day Navi was sent to him.
I'll never forget how my 4 or 5 year old brain drowned in awe when I saw my cousins play Twilight Princess and just trudging through the ordon wood at night and hearing the hyrule field night theme. It's been my favorite in the franchise since then and it makes me happy there's a lot of fans showing their love for it today still.
Honestly when you mentioned how fans originally disliked Majora for being different. It honestly reminded me how Super Paper Mario was also originally dissed by the Paper Mario fans because it chose to change the gameplay from turn based to instead a platformer. But because it still had most of the elements that the fans enjoyed about the first two Paper Mario entries it’s been gaining more of a fan following in recent years. Especially compared to it's 3DS follow up.
Super Paper Mario was a great game, and I think its biggest strength was the characters. The story in broad terms isn't actually all that mind-blowing, but the character interaction is really fun. I love Bowser's reaction to having to team up with the good guys and Luigi's bizarre face-heel-face turn, and several of the new characters (Dimentio, Mimi, the Floro Sapiens and Bonechill in particular) are among my favorites in any Paper Mario game.
I hope you're right about Super Paper Mario gaining more fans recently, because it hasn't gotten the credit it deserves.
@@cinnamonnoir2487 Honestly to go with even further comparisons I think Black & White also originally got heck by the Pokemon fans for what it changed but nowadays the fans praise this entry.
Honestly the twilight princess is like ocarina, can be said about ocarina and alttp honestly i always felt like oot was just a retelling of alttp in 3d
glad i gave the MSpaint presentation a chance, this was good.
Thank you. I know it's a bit of a hurdle to get over.
I enjoyed this entire video so much and it really reminded me and put words to why I love Twilight Princess so much.
Are there any similar games in terms of themes and story?
I hate to be a disappointing Dennis here, but I'm finding it very difficult to think of a game with the same kind of plot and story ideas as Twilight Princess, even within the Zelda series. Majora's Mask is similarly dark and creepy, and also features a similar antagonist, but that's about it.
If I had to nail down the important themes of Twilight Princess, I think they'd be more or less the following: a light world and a dark world that interact with each other, an ancient tribe that displeased the gods by becoming too powerful and arrogant, a scrappy hero who rises from obscurity to save a kingdom and his friends, a usurping villain who seems powerful but is weak underneath and can't successfully master the power he uses, and a mischievous sidekick who starts by trying to use the protagonist but ultimately forms a bond with him.
Apart from the last one, this actually kind of resembles the story of Star Wars (light side and dark side, the downfall of the Jedi, Luke Skywalker, and the Empire overall), so you might enjoy a good Star Wars game like Jedi Survivor. I also think it's possible that you'd enjoy Golden Sun and its sequel, since they mix combat with puzzles and feature some of these plot elements as well. And I've also often heard Okami brought up in this respect (dispelling the curses in several areas does feel somewhat like banishing the twilight), but it's a little simplistic with the puzzles.
I don't know, I'm really spitballing here. You may have to just play it by ear and look around until you see a game that gives you a Twilight Princess-y vibe.
Thanks for the suggestions!
I have to agree about Okami, that’s definitely another one of my favorite games from around that time… maybe I’ll replay that :D
I enjoyed both BOTW and TOTK on a first playthrough where you're just exploring the world and seeing what's to see. I haven't played either of them more than once, but Twilight Princess and Ocarina of Time I play through at least once every year or two. I think the classic formula fits the series better than today's "open world because games are open world now."
Twilight Princess and Ocarina of Time are still tied for my favorites of the series.
Great video! Twilight Princess has been my favorite Zelda game since I first started playing games in general, was the first game I ever played, and usually I get that nostalgia leads me to think it's better than newer releases and I'm just biased. But after pouring well over 300 hours into BOTW...TOTK literally didn't change enough for me to feel anything but exhausted at the idea of giving it fifty or sixty hours. Some of the story and character stuff is cool, and it's maybe not as vague a world as BOTW, but it's really just one of those games where you look up a playthrough on UA-cam because it's too similar to the first game.
Twilight Princess had this world, this masterful atmosphere, and you remember every single character even just the random, unnamed townspeople of Castle Town. Link's story was so much nicer too, a farmboy becoming a hero to protect his friends and the kids who look up to him. Becoming a legend not because he set out to save Princess Zelda, he didn't even know her. He set out just to save his little town, and then he kept going in the end to save the whole realm.
Good on Nintendo for trying to make another game like the one players loved, but I feel they played it too safe and didn't make it interesting enough to try out. But, your video going through everything is great!
If you want another zelda game where the sidekick completely earns their relationship with link and has their own character arc and growth, play spirit tracks
As a matter of fact, I have played Spirit Tracks. And I do like the relationship that Link and Zelda have in that game. Unfortunately, I really didn't like the gameplay and level design of Spirit Tracks, and I gave up on it about an hour and a half in.
I still own it, though, so maybe this is a good time to go back and give it another chance.
They're definitely controversial entries lmao, but I personally enjoy them. (Definitely biased though, my first console was the phantom hourglass ds lite).
Of the pair, ST definitely has the better dungeons, though PH has the better overworld in my opinion (hot take, PH's great sea has more consistently meaningful stuff to do vs wind waker).
If you have the time though I do recommend trying again! They're not a modern 3D zelda but if you meet them where they're at they have a lot of charm :)
@@cinnamonnoir2487
Twilight Princess was my very first Zelda game, and to this day is still my favorite not so much for its art choice but how expansive the world felt to me when I first played it. I felt like I was this whole other world and I grew to care and love for the main characters
I think what made TP special to me outside of nostalgia was the atmosphere it was able to convey through the music and tone every place that visited I was able to smell, hear and taste (metaphorically) as I entered each region (especially Snowpeak and the Twilight Realm) that I didn’t really feel in other games save for the shadow temple and Inside of Jabu Jabu from OoT
Here's to hoping that eventually all the 3D zelda games (especially WW and TP will be ported to the Switch!)
Every Forrest kid had a fairy, not just Link.
I know. Read the description.
Ah, my bad big dog. I read the description when I clicked on the video and stopped at the time stamps assuming that was the end, I didn't mean to hit you with that homie, lol. Great video
@@bchavez149 No problem. Thanks for watching.
10:06 Both Skyward Sword and Wind Waker had a significantly higher amount of time of overworld travel, and both methods were highly distinct from "on-foot" controls and experience, so one might as well consider those the alternate forms in those games.
Exactly why TP is the best zelda game of all time
After TOTK I grew a new appreciation for Twilight Princess.
30:20 the forest temple has (poes)ghosts and stalfos. Plus it’s a ruined mansion. Clearly there were previous inhabitants
That’s what I’m saying Ben!! It’s my favorite in the series, and my introduction into good games
Every time i think youtube avatars can get wierder... i discover one that suprises me
Regarding Navi and Tatl, I think people would be a lot more appreciative of them if they'd realized that the fairies are what allow you to Z-Target.
One of the most useful mechanics in the game is directly tied to those characters, but myself and I think many children at the time simply didn't make that connection.
Even when fighting Ganondorf and Navi specifically says "I can't help you in this fight" and the game takes away your ability to target him, my only reaction was "Why would I need your help? You're useless", completely missing the entire point of her existence.
On a semi-related note, I loved Fi and I loved Skyward Sword. The motion controls were fantastic. Ghirahim is peak character design. Fight me.
That’s actually pretty cool, I never noticed that…! Funny how fans can find something „new“ after all these years. Also, finally someone that doesn’t hate Skyward Sword🥲
Really glad i got to experience how phenomenal Zelda games were from 1998 - 2006. Skyward Sword and BotW/TotK are good but not worth playing a second time in my opinion. Twilight Princess gets shit on alot and i don't know why. it's truly the best in many ways.
Skyward sword is one of the worst Zelda games imo, the sky could have been great but it’s absolutely barren and the imprisoned fight(s) are the worst in zelda’s history (imo) SS did have a few really good dungeons though, the great cistern is one of my favourites in the entire series…shame it’s in the worst 3D zelda game
@leonc9760 That's what I thought about Skyward Sword until I bought it for switch. They did fix a few things, and my opinion about the game went from bad to mixed. It's definitely not a masterpiece, but it's not a bad game. My opinion respectively stands with OoT, MM, WW and TP being the best zeldas of all time.
I would be interested to see your take on Echoes of Wisdom now that it's out... and I'm gonna investigate your channel to see if you have one. I like your analysis! Especially since TP is probably my fav Zelda game... but I also loved BOTW and TOTK. But I love those two for very different reasons and think they could have been so much better with traditional dungeons.
I'm probably not going to make a video on Echoes of Wisdom, especially since I don't plan on playing through it myself, but I don't mind sharing a few of my thoughts with you here.
At first I was very apprehensive about Echoes of Wisdom because of that Echo mechanic, which I thought would lead to open-ended puzzles in the vein of Tears of the Kingdom. I also wasn't sure if there would be dungeons in the game, because the central mechanic isn't necessarily a great fit with dungeons. In retrospect I think the first fear was pretty much right on and the second was mistaken, and that kind of "half good, half bad" feeling has stuck with me through everything I've seen.
I watched a streamer play through roughly five hours of the game; he played the whole thing, but I was only able to catch about an hour at the beginning, two and a half-ish hours during the middle, and the last dungeon and ending. I didn't fall in love with some of the minor characters the way a lot of people seem to (particularly Conde), but they were reasonably charming. The writing wasn't anything special, but at least it was sincere and mostly lacking in that obnoxious "well, that just happened" quality that seems to afflict games made for a young adult audience these days.
The combat really disappointed me. I can see what they were going for, and I understand them wanting to differentiate Zelda from Link, but they overdid it and created a system that gets boring and repetitive very quickly (all I had to do was _watch_ and I still found it tedious). I think it would have made far more sense to give Zelda a simple weapon like a staff (which I believe she has anyway), have that be the basic combat option and save the combat echoes for special moments. As it is, the echoes do all the normal combat, with Zelda limited to support options like holding enemies in place, and the special moments are resolved with a "warrior mode" that just reintroduces the sword and bow. Since the echoes are the gimmick of the game, they should feel important and unique, and constant use destroys that feeling; it's just like the constant use of Ultrahand and Fuse in Tears of the Kingdom, which drained all the mystique out of those powers.
Puzzles were better, and I thought some of them were very creative. I particularly appreciated the reintroduction of long dungeons with unique themes; this is one of the most hyped aspects of the game among Zelda fans, and I think it mostly deserves that hype. My one big complaint is that the traversal challenges are so easily broken with echoes like the Flying Tile, Water Blocks and of course Beds. The game in general is a little too easy for me to feel like it would ever test me. I don't blame it for that, since I'm dead certain that this game (like most Nintendo games of the last decade) was aimed at children, and the gentle difficulty curve makes it more approachable, but it severely lessens my interest in ever playing it myself.
I'm not a fan of the art style that Grezzo used in this and the Link's Awakening remake, but for what it is the game is gorgeous. The environmental design was one of my favorite aspects of it, and it improved as the game went on. In fact, the game in general got better as it went on. By the end, I was more on board with it than I had been at any other time. The ending has great music, some interesting gameplay twists, and a very satisfying conclusion in the vein of A Link to the Past. What's most frustrating to me about the whole experience is that I feel like I could have loved this game if a few decisive changes had been made early in development.
So to sum up, this still isn't an experience I really want to get into, but it's closer than anything has been since A Link Between Worlds. The basic gameplay of A Link Between Worlds with this game's story, characters and gimmick would have bowled me over; as it is, I enjoyed watching it, but I don't want to play it. What it has accomplished is changing my mind about Grezzo. I thought at one point that Grezzo had no ideas of its own and just went along with whatever Eiji Aonuma suggested, but this proves that there are people working there who want to do something unique. I hope Nintendo gives them that chance, and I suspect that their next game is one I'll want to buy.
Thanks for your interest!
First time i played TWP it took me 64 hrs to get to the final boss ganandorf. then my save file got accidentally deleted before i actually fought him. and i had to do it all over again. funnily enough i dont recall it being tedious at all. only took me 25 hrs on my second time around.
At one point A Link to the past was the definitive Zelda. Then Ocarina was. Now, it's Wild. Skyward Sword HD reintroduce me to the concept of linear Zelda's and going back and playing Twilight Princess on GameCube has made me start craving the game on switch.
alttp's story isn't goofy???
it's literally about the fallout of a civil war and conspiracy to overtake the throne
Great video, but one quick correction. While the TriForce wasn’t present for most of Skyward Sword, I would say it was important to the story, after all the whole second half of the game is searching for a way to destroy Demise, and once Link gets the Triforce he wishes for Demise to be destroyed.
It's a debatable point. I understand that the game talks a lot about the Triforce during the ending, and the final dungeon is arguably Triforce-themed. My point is that the importance of the Triforce isn't really set up during the rest of the game leading up to that ending. Skyward Sword is always leading you by the nose with some other plot-critical development or item (catching up to Zelda, infusing the Master Sword with the Sacred Flames, assembling the Song of the Hero, etc.), and frankly I felt like the Triforce was rather shoehorned into a story that it had little to do with.
I appreciate your adding some nuance to this discussion, but I stand by my original position.
This dude been making proper edited videos for like 5 years and only now one pops off lmao
Eh, I dunno, it kind of depends on how you define "proper". Technically my videos are more like glorified PowerPoint presentations.
But I appreciate the compliment. Thanks for watching.
Malo being a young Milo is not something I've connected before, but I love it
You know, even while saying that, it didn't occur to me how similar their names are. But yeah, I've always felt like Malo shares the same "forget about the war, I've got money to make" wavelength as Milo Minderbinder.
If I had tried to write a Zelda video essay, it would’ve been exactly this video except way more rambly, a lot more poorly-written, and not nearly as effective
Hey, you never know until you try. When I started doing stuff like this, most people said it sucked. You should try making videos too; it's fun.
My biggest problem with new zelda is it some how manages to be an overly bland game that despite trying new mechanics and gameplay ideas never really fleshes them out in a way that benefits the zelda style of game.
I feel like im playing a spin off instead of a mainline game.
My biggest personal issues are the lack of koji kondo style soundtracks the largely empty world and the annoying weapon system.
"Cool i just found this kick ass sword but wait it broke after only a few hits..." I traveled across the map to get it and I feel very much robbed.
One thing I absolutely love is the climbing feature its probably the most satisfying mechanic in the game which says a lot.
And then there's the manga. Peak fiction.
43:12 that's funny because most of the zelda youtubers I've come across with have Wind Waker as their favorite game lol
if they just made zant's head look slightly cooler without the mask nobody would have a problem. if he had like some cool long hair he wouldnt come off like such a nerd at the end
I am noticing people are making vids about twilight princess these days to say that no it is not a remake of ocarina of time
And Ocarina is a remake of aLttP.
Awesome fucking vidoe man. Twilight princess rocks my fucking socks and the intro is goated. I was thinking anout starting my youtube career making this exact video you beat me too it and I love it 😂
Hey, why not make that video anyway? There's room for more than one middling Twilight Princess retrospective on UA-cam. I know because I've already watched more than one.
Seriously, though, making your own content is lots of fun. Don't let me dissuade you from trying it.
@@cinnamonnoir2487no absolutely not I was just expressing that I felt like this is a needed video on youtube and im glad someone else felt that way
Totk feels like dlc if the dlc was the entire game again but just better in every way
Twilight Princess (and Majoras Mask too) always stayed my favorite Zelda game and I‘m happy to see so much tp content recently. It would be nice if Nintendo would go back into that direction for the next Zelda game
very gratifying video. Thank you for making this. I'm probably going to replay TP again shortly.
Best sidekick in my opinion will always be Ezlo(hat) from the minish cap
Twilight Princess is probably my favorite Zelda game even though it's not the most fun one for me to play.
i played twilight princess for the first time right after my totk playthrough and i feel the exact same way
tp and mm are the best zelda games imo
Nintendo nowadays has become so distracted by money that they forget a good majority of Zelda fans disliked Skyward Sword. Yet we get a remaster of it on switch.
A majority didn't even play it because it came out at the end of the Wii's console life. Let alone post-BotW where the fanbase tripled in size.
@@amandaslough125 That too, at that point I believe 3ds was out so there was hardly a reason to care for the Wii. Then the Wii U came out.
At this point with zelda as it is, the story and major dungeons ARE the side content. And the side content is literally almost the entire game. But it all still feels like side content.
Sad that the Zelda Team is sticking with the current Direction of the series. Also annoyed that Tears of the Kingdom didn't give us no DLC Shrines so we could finally Max Out BOTH Health and Stamina. It is my main gripe with the current series aside from the Weapon Durability System. I LOVED Majora's Mask, Twilight Princess and Wind Waker due to the Gameplay, Story and Soundtrack. I LOVED Skyward Sword HD as it felt much better to play than the Original. Sad that Wind Waker HD made the Second Playthrough into a Hard Mode. As Games go BOTW and TOTK were fun but there were plenty of things that annoyed me about them. As ZELDA games go they were "meh".
Technically 4 have been Direct Sequels: where the same Link is in both pairs of Games: Adventure of Link > Original NES Legend of Zelda; Link's Awakening > Link to the Past; Majora's Mask > Ocarina of Time; Phantom Hourglass > Wind Waker... Oracle of Ages Oracle of Seasons are a special case since you could choose either to be the first.
Technically I didn't say that Zelda had never had "direct sequels" before. I said that having Zelda games radically innovate on their predecessors was the norm, and that Tears of the Kingdom broke that precedent.
This is particularly true for gameplay. Adventure of Link was a huge departure from the style of the original Legend of Zelda (being an actual RPG was only the half of it); Majora's Mask had a totally different story and structure from Ocarina of Time; Phantom Hourglass was much more broken up than Wind Waker, probably due to being made for a portable console, and had a new touch-based control scheme on top of many other mechanical changes.
The Oracle games aren't sequels at all, by the way. They're two separate experiences designed and released at the same time. Link's Awakening is probably the closest thing to a retread on your list, but when you're actually playing it the game feels nothing like A Link to the Past. Again, being made for a handheld console was a huge game-changer for the design team at Nintendo.
Your comment is disputing a point I never made. The problem isn't that Tears of the Kingdom is a direct sequel to Breath of the Wild (in fact, like most Zelda "sequels", it barely pays any attention to the story and themes of the game it's a sequel to). It's that Tears of the Kingdom is clearly from the same mold as Breath of the Wild, and after six years of waiting a lot of people found that pretty disappointing for a series that's normally as innovative as Zelda.
I suppose that at least some of the evaluation of these Zelda games has a great deal to do with where one entered the series. So many people talk about how wonderful OOT is, but I have no idea, because I didn't play it. My entry to the series was the first LOZ, and then Zelda II, and LTTP. After that, I didn't play another Zelda game until Twilight Princess, not because of any objection to the game, but because I didn't have access to the hardware on which to play it and because I spent a lot of my twenties distracted by other, pressing responsibilities. For me, TP felt like a natural continuation of LTTP; when I went back after TP and played WW (which I did like FWIW), the story felt so jarring to me because of the opening references to the "Hero of Time" that I didn't really connect with the storyline the entire time I played.
For me, the 2D/2.5D games are the ones that resonate with me, and whose elements I look for in callbacks later in the series, and TP hits a lot of those notes. Things you mentioned as being critical elements of 3D Zelda games (sidekicks and transformations) either didn't exist (for the former) or didn't have a significant story impact (the latter) on any of the games, so to my mind, they are not essential parts of what makes a Zelda game. And, in some ways, LTTP has elements which can be found in BOTW and TOTK in fuller form: the ability to fight enemies with odd objects (being able to reflect Aghanim's magic with the net), not requiring you to complete story elements to face Ganon (e.g, you don't need to upgrade the Master Sword to the highest level, or even at all; you can permanently lose your shield, you can not upgrade your armor - and I have played through and finished the game in each of these ways - you can miss the moon pearl, you can tackle the dungeons out of order).
I would suggest, further, that direct sequels (in story if not style and substance) are a hallmark of Zelda: LOZ, Zelda II, and LTTP are all set in the same continuity; WW is a direct sequel to OOT because it requires knowing that story as an entry point to really understanding the plot of WW (and MM Is a direct sequel to OOT); Four Swords, FSA, and Minish Cap are in a direct sequence as well. If anything, trilogies seem to be a defining hallmark of Zelda games: three games share an overall plot arc.
Thus, my theory is that, for a lot of people, the Zelda game that underpins their idea of what the series should be about is the game they played in their most formative years, and for a lot of people who are really active in the Zelda community, that's going to be OOT, and I think that's why elements that are prominent in that game are held up as standards of what the games are supposed to be; however, for older players like me, our touchstone is LTTP, and in that respect, BOTW and TOTK hit a lot of the notes, save the importance of the Triforce which, I'm hoping, will be resolved in a forthcoming conclusion to the BOTW trilogy.
But no matter what, I think we can all agree that Skyward Sword was demonstratively awful, taking the worst elements of the preceding LOZ games and making them central to the story.
You certainly have a unique and interesting perspective on the Zelda series, having skipped straight from A Link to the Past to Twilight Princess, and I think it's pretty cool that you consider TP a worthy follow-up to a game that it's separated from by more than a decade of changes to the series, including a shift to three-dimensional gameplay. And yes, I realize that what I've described aren't really "essential" to _all_ Zeldas; I was mostly talking about the 3D entries...and of course, the list still isn't bulletproof with regard to them. The list was more of a way of organizing my thoughts than an objective encapsulation of all things Zelda.
I wouldn't call the sequels you're talking about "direct" because so much in-universe time separates them. Yes, the story of The Wind Waker references Ocarina of Time, but nothing that Link did in that game is actually _relevant_ to what the new Link does centuries later; they likely aren't even related (the same goes for the Hero's Shade and Link from TP). I actually disagree with you that having played OOT is necessary to truly appreciate WW's plot. As for Majora's Mask, it does indeed follow OOT's events directly, but because Termina is totally disconnected from Hyrule, nothing from OOT really affects what he does in MM. To me, a _direct_ sequel would be one in which the consequences of events from the previous game form the premise for the current game, like how Metroid Prime: Corruption is to Metroid Prime: Echoes.
Seriously, though, just because I mildly disagree with your points doesn't mean I don't appreciate what you have to say here. You've given me a lot to think about.
OoT is a wonderful game, with a very rich story, plot and world-building.
The dungeons are memorable, not only in soundtracks but in atmosphere. The main character, Link, evolves as does the world around him. Exploring Hyrule feels like an adventure.
The side characters stay with you as do their sacrifices.
It has a great ending. The only game that can be more beloved than OoT is Majora's Mask, which also has a rich world, a mythos that's unveiled to us through side stories, and a lot of side characters that make you feel.
Twilight Princess, well, it has my favorite Hyrule. Empty, perhaps, but I loved hunting the heart pieces, so, it works. The story is good. The temples are good. But, OoT feels more magical.
Last point, OoT to Majora's does feel like a sequel. But that's coming from someone that played them pretty much in the year they were released.
Very good video, describes my feelings about the series as it currently stands completely.
Twilight Princess' flaws for me are in the combat and hyrule field's emptiness. If those were improved I'd think we'd reached the peak of Zelda
Yup! I love Twilight Princess and feel incredibly underwhelmed by BotW and TotK.
These Wild Era Zelda games just feel kind of directionless to me. I can't help but think of them as ADHD simulators whenever I play them because they're designed to entice you in every which way and most of what you can engage with is so short and simple that they can be completed before you even need to bother engaging any deep focus at all. These games feel to me like a big empty world full of trivial mobile game-esq challenges, with garry's mod/dev tools enabled (and really these tools pale in comparison to garry's mod or real dev tools). It's just not possible to create the kinds of narrative arcs and player progression that I find satisfying with the kind of lack of direction these games have. Such openness is great for sandboxes, but not for adventures where the gameplay and narrative are coherent with each other.
I've seen people complain that TP's opening takes too long, but that's actually one thing I love about TP. It's opening perfectly illustrates what I mean when I talk about gameplay and narrative coherence. The gameplay of TP's opening is slow and mundane, because Link's life as a farm boy in a little mountain village, before he gets thrust into adventure, is slow and mundane. I love that TP's opening almost feels like a life sim game like Stardew Valley. That's why I never get bored or feel like it's a tedious obstacle to the "real" game. I love to just walk around Ordon village and roleplay like I am just a farm boy, playing with the dogs, fishing, herding goats, and helping the townsfolk with mundane tasks. If anything, I usually draw TP's intro out longer to really soak in that first act of Link's peaceful life. It makes that moment when Link is force-ably transformed into a wolf and imprisoned REALLY impactful. You can feel what it feels like for Link's peaceful life to be taken away from him through the gameplay itself.
TP isn't the only Zelda game to do this. It was a staple of 3D Zelda's (and even 2D Zelda's starting with A Link to the Past) before BotW. Oot had you run around the Kokiri forest like one of the Kokiri themselves, Wind Waker has you spend time on Outset as one of it's inhabitants, Skyward Sword let you live a few normal days on Skyloft. Even Majora's Mask, with it's unique approach, still has you confined to clock town in the early game so you have to sort of live amongst the people whose lives are at stake from the falling moon. BotW and TotK completely skip these kinds of fist act gameplay intros and thrust you right into a weird amalgamation of the second and third acts.
There is no defending having a mediocre story like botw and totk when rdr2 had a amazing open world( the best in my opinion) and a really good story
Huh? Botw eats rdr2 for breakfast as an open world game
@56ty_ wym the story is way better in rdr2 as well as the many activities you can do. And Oh god the sidequests are 10/10. Only thing to do in botw is collect korok seeds and the sidequests are mid at best. The shrines are pretty fun though
@@Leonkennedy19992 yes the story is better in rdr2. But they’re completely different games. Also sorry for replying to a 5 months old comment
@56ty_ yes that is true. No worries.
If I want to play a fun, creative game with cool lore sprinkled throughout, and epic replayability, I play BotW or TotK.
If I want an actual good story, I read a damned book.