Coaching can help make up some of the gap between TO and smaller centres but of course it’s hard to fully make up for the numbers. St Louis/Dallas are good examples where coaching and program have been made a HUGE difference.
0:06: 😂 Members enjoy the humor in the podcast, but not many pick up on the subtle jokes in social media clips. 7:46: 🏒 The speaker prefers coaching players aged 20 and under and believes in earning your spot in the game. 14:54: 🏀 There is a big gap between AA and AAA levels in basketball. 23:01: 🏒 The demographics of a population can greatly impact the number of kids playing hockey. 30:11: 🗣 The speaker discusses the reputation and development of smaller market areas in the context of Triple A to Triple A and Gap schools in Toronto. 37:52: 🏒 The video discusses the challenges faced by U8 hockey players in understanding basic hockey decision-making. 52:04: 🏒 The speaker suggests that there are too many teams in hockey, leading to a diluted talent pool and increased expenses. 59:23: 🏃 The speaker discusses the importance of hip flexors for speed and highlights the misconception of focusing solely on squats and jumps. 1:06:16: 💡 The speaker emphasizes that nothing is pressing and there are options to switch teams or drop a level if needed. 1:14:00: 🏒 The speaker discusses the challenges of reaching the professional level in hockey and the gaps that exist at different levels of play. 1:20:57: 🏀 Evaluate your options and resources if you want to play for a specific team or in a specific system. 1:27:43: 👍 The speaker's friend has never seen them get overly excited about their child playing hockey. Recap by Tammy AI
Great discussion, thank you for this. One suggestion that may be helpful for people watching these videos in the future - when you say things like “I work with some elite 2012s” maybe follow that up with the actual age. When somebody is watching this video in 2026 or something, they can understand it easier. Subscribed!
Awesome podcast….we believe it doesn’t matter where we play it only matters where we end up….glad we met you coach Andy in Ayr Ontario at the OHL game…..
Yall I’m starting hockey at 17 what level can I achieve (skating skills are alright and I’m making fast progress, shooting is alright but I’ve only practised off-ice so far so I’m not sure yet)
Growing the game at the early ages is how you make a center better. Embrace the idea of getting more kids to choose to play hockey over soccer, basketball, football etc. Embrace the “new hockey” families.
@49:27 is super interesting and his answer is very eye opening... made me realize and think about the situation where I live (Welland ON. - Niagara Region). This region has 2 AAA teams, Southern Tier Admirals and the Niagara North Stars. We've got the Welland Tigers and this season 2023/24 our U11A is super amazing... Theyre getting gold in all these tournaments and 1st in their divisiin. The Welland Tigers doesnt even have a AA team... if you want to play AA, your options are Niagara Falls Flyers AA or Garden City Minor Hockey (St. Catherines Falcons AA) and both clubs also have teams at A level too...
Ive read articles that are saying AAA is all a money grab, where you got diluted AAA teams being blown out the water vs real AAA teams. Clubs are getting greedy.
IMHO, the pendulum has swung too far toward a focus on skill and skill coaching. This is partially due to HC ignoring the teaching of 'hockey', in part by labelling everything as systems. And making that a dirty word. We end up with kids coming into U14, U15 and U16 with no idea how to play and attempt to win an actual game of hockey. Good coaching has to include both and I don't see a lot of it.
🤦♂️ you do understand that developing a hockey player is a marathon and that winning is not the goal, right?? You also understand that as players mature it’s 100000000% times easier to teach a new system over teaching a 22 yr old to skate? No one EVER has been drafted because they can execute a system. Good/Bad habits are present in every system so teach skills and habits when kids are young. Too much focus on systems will guarantee over time kids will NOT achieve their full potential.
you are kind of making my point. That being that the habits you mention, get lumped in as systems. Not what they are. Which are the good habits needed to play the actual game. My original post is not pro systems. It's pro teaching the whole game to the individual. No where did I say you need all systems all the time at young ages. 🤦♂@@Whowhatme
@@WhowhatmeI think you’re being hyperbolic in both your characterization of his comment, and of bringing in the notion of teaching a 22 year old to skate and the draft. His point - one that I agree with - is that the pendulum has swung a bit to far toward skills above all else. A “system”, at its core, is just a way that players can utilize their skills in a coordinated, cooperative effort that is set up to maximize the make up of the roster against other rosters. It’s just a little bit of structure within the chaos that is always present within the game of hockey. You point out, “habits” and that is an apt term, but isn’t a system just a structured series of habits that everyone participates in? Has there ever been anyone drafted because they execute a system? I don’t know, but I’ll grant you that you’re right. But, the real question has there ever been a player NOT drafted because they lack all ability to learn and execute the most basic systems? Again, I don’t know. But, it would seem to me that both are somewhat required, so why not teach them. One thing I do know from experience, however, is that highly skilled players can quite easily be rendered ineffective by either a good opposing system and/or a lack of structure from their own team. All the dangles, toe drags and speed can become frustratingly useless against a team that understands even just the basics. I think a lot of coaches don’t teach systems because they don’t actually understand them, from an X’s & O’s standpoint, and most importantly, from the “Why” standpoint, and they don’t want to look uninformed. They’ll say things like, “the kids need to figure it out on their own” or “they’re not able to learn that kind of stuff yet.” Well, if we know it takes lots and lots of reps to learn and apply something, shouldn’t you get to teaching and trying to apply it? It’s a cop out I hear too often. They can learn it if you explain it to them properly and then PRACTICE IT! Don’t diminish the student’s ability to learn to try to paper over the teacher’s inability to teach. Yes, it can be frustrating and can take a long time. But, it’s important, maybe more important, than so many of the skills that have become - as the OP said - emphasized more in the current hockey climate. Structure/Systems are integral to development because they give players a place within which they can grow and apply their skills. Right now, unfortunately, growth is so skewed to fancy the offense “breakaway” game that everything is geared in that direction. The solid “role player” is view as an anachronistic player, and acclaim is given to players who habitually do stupid, selfish things with zero understanding of how they effect the over all team effort. The tone of your comment is telling, in my opinion. You seem agitated by the OP’s comment. It’s like a rift has formed within the hockey world and coaches and associations choose sides then defend their side like a political party. I’m on the side of development and, from first hand experience, I can tell you that I’ve seen lots more highly skilled players who don’t have a clue where to go or why on a consistent basis, than players who might be less skilled but are always in the right place for the right reasons. I see those less skilled players trying to be more skilled and coaches working to raise their skill, but very few working to get their more skilled players into better positions to be successful within the team framework.
@@QuantumRadii well.. gonna have to vehemently disagree with your take and with years and years of experience both in minor hockey and for a paycheque, I can 100% promise you that an over-emphasis on systems is a guarantee to limit the player’s potential. In my experience, 90% of coaches teach systems bc they lack the deep understanding of the game and what builds long term success. I see it ALL the time. Have guys from Jr C come out and help run practices and they can’t do the skating part bc my kids, by Pee Wee have better edgework than they do. They end up playing Jr C when, I know 100%, if I had coached them growing up they’d be playing major Jr or on a full ride. The reason they are limited is bc there was not enough emphasis on the basic skills. You can have ALL the systems you want but when my team is twice as fast as yours and we take away ALL your time and space, your systems fall apart quicker than you shortening your bench. I NEVER said anything about the kid that tried to go end to end but I promise you it will not work against my team bc we will just take away their time, their hands and neutralize that player. None of my players are trying to go end to end either as that is counter productive to the TEAM game and that limits that player’s potential bc at some point they will not be able to go end to end so they need to learn how to pass (a basic skill present in 95% of my drills). Habits are what should be taught and I do agree most coaches don’t know the game enough to teach proper habits. As for the FIO, I 100% believe in that concept just like you do. The best way to learn anything is through trial and error. You can’t bubble wrap kids and turn them into robots. They have to understand how to use their tools to be successful… themselves!! Our job as coaches is to teach the skills/habits the kids need to be successful and they need to learn (by experience) how to apply them and when (obviously with some guidance). That’s why SAGs have become so popular. You get to try and execute those habits over and over again in a competitive environment while having FUN. I get kids at high school age that I coach and all know what a breakout is … and in games it’s 75% of the time a rimmer and we accept that? I ask the D, how do you create time & space for yourself?? 90% of the time, they can’t name 1 way to create time and space for themselves on a retrieval as easy example. I teach them 5-6 ways and we work on that for as long as I have them, at least 1/week for 20 mins. My goal is to have 0 rimmers. I believe if the first pass is tape to tape, we are out of our zone, 90% of the time, regardless of which breakout we use. There is allot in that statement and #1 starts with skating. Doesn’t matter how good your system is or how well your player can play a system, if they can’t skate at an elite level, they are not playing past Jr B. I ask my Cs; do you know what I mean by low and slow? No one has ever said YES. That’s a HUGE problem. Do I believe in structure? .. yes of course. You can’t run anything (IMHO) without some form of structure but I see it way too often, kids become robots. My personal favorite is the cycle. Such a waste (or maybe even worse, dump and chase.. should NEVER be taught in minor hockey). I see kids get the puck on the half wall and their teammate is wide open at net front or they can walk the circle.. instead they chip it back to the corner (exactly where the other team wants it). Those are not hockey players… those are robots. In my experience, over-emphasis on systems, especially at young ages, limits players’ potential. I’ve seen it thousands of times. Works short term, but come playoff time (year 1) their advantage is almost gone. 2-3 yrs later, they are in last place… bc they were not taught the basic skills and they’ve falling behind in the most important areas. I am not a fan of Tony Dangle either… I can easily fix Tony Dangle with discipline. What is way harder to fix is someone’s skating stride by high school. If I sound frustrating, it’s only bc I love kids and I hate when their “leaders” (adults) rob them of their full potential bc they don’t know how to develop an athlete properly.
@@QuantumRadii last point. What happens if I spend all this upcoming season implementing my system and next season a different coach teaches a completely different system? I’d say that was a complete waste of 1 yr of development and really kids only have about 4-6 yrs of real development yrs… you’re not teaching systems until probably Pee Wee at earliest.
As my son grew up, I heard from real hockey guys that Novice was too late. If you didn’t play competitive by Novice you fall behind. The scenario about NZ 1-2-2 is NOT just hockey, it show ups everywhere. It’s shows up in baseball, soccer, lawn work, cleaning. As Andy said when we were kids we played… unsupervised play, there is none of that anymore. When is the last time you had to wait for a road hockey game (while driving). Technology is a HUGE reason for it. I didn’t play AAA until Pee Wee. The odds of doing that now… is very little. Here is a better example of guy that could not skate enough to get to NHL is Corey Locke. No one had more skill than him in CHL and smarter hockey player. His skating was the major reason he didn’t translate. Connor McDavid is the skilled guy. You saw it today in skill competition. Is he the best hockey player? Probably To fix that gap… get rid of technology!!
This is why hockey development is stupid. Only kids who can afford 15k a year are AAA. Could be the most skilled Kid in three generations but you are poor so scouts won’t see you There is no other sport where we add a pretend higher level that is just basically a rich parents travel club.
There is really some merit your comment, but to say that it’s only related to hockey is not accurate, in my opinion. Golf, for a long time, has been dominate the “country club kids”, and I know from friends and family that club soccer and baseball are expensive as well.
Coaching can help make up some of the gap between TO and smaller centres but of course it’s hard to fully make up for the numbers.
St Louis/Dallas are good examples where coaching and program have been made a HUGE difference.
0:06: 😂 Members enjoy the humor in the podcast, but not many pick up on the subtle jokes in social media clips.
7:46: 🏒 The speaker prefers coaching players aged 20 and under and believes in earning your spot in the game.
14:54: 🏀 There is a big gap between AA and AAA levels in basketball.
23:01: 🏒 The demographics of a population can greatly impact the number of kids playing hockey.
30:11: 🗣 The speaker discusses the reputation and development of smaller market areas in the context of Triple A to Triple A and Gap schools in Toronto.
37:52: 🏒 The video discusses the challenges faced by U8 hockey players in understanding basic hockey decision-making.
52:04: 🏒 The speaker suggests that there are too many teams in hockey, leading to a diluted talent pool and increased expenses.
59:23: 🏃 The speaker discusses the importance of hip flexors for speed and highlights the misconception of focusing solely on squats and jumps.
1:06:16: 💡 The speaker emphasizes that nothing is pressing and there are options to switch teams or drop a level if needed.
1:14:00: 🏒 The speaker discusses the challenges of reaching the professional level in hockey and the gaps that exist at different levels of play.
1:20:57: 🏀 Evaluate your options and resources if you want to play for a specific team or in a specific system.
1:27:43: 👍 The speaker's friend has never seen them get overly excited about their child playing hockey.
Recap by Tammy AI
Great discussion, thank you for this.
One suggestion that may be helpful for people watching these videos in the future - when you say things like “I work with some elite 2012s” maybe follow that up with the actual age. When somebody is watching this video in 2026 or something, they can understand it easier.
Subscribed!
Awesome podcast….we believe it doesn’t matter where we play it only matters where we end up….glad we met you coach Andy in Ayr Ontario at the OHL game…..
Yall I’m starting hockey at 17 what level can I achieve (skating skills are alright and I’m making fast progress, shooting is alright but I’ve only practised off-ice so far so I’m not sure yet)
Growing the game at the early ages is how you make a center better. Embrace the idea of getting more kids to choose to play hockey over soccer, basketball, football etc. Embrace the “new hockey” families.
@49:27 is super interesting and his answer is very eye opening... made me realize and think about the situation where I live (Welland ON. - Niagara Region). This region has 2 AAA teams, Southern Tier Admirals and the Niagara North Stars. We've got the Welland Tigers and this season 2023/24 our U11A is super amazing... Theyre getting gold in all these tournaments and 1st in their divisiin. The Welland Tigers doesnt even have a AA team... if you want to play AA, your options are Niagara Falls Flyers AA or Garden City Minor Hockey (St. Catherines Falcons AA) and both clubs also have teams at A level too...
Ive read articles that are saying AAA is all a money grab, where you got diluted AAA teams being blown out the water vs real AAA teams. Clubs are getting greedy.
Blue star… nice. Say hi to Dan for us. Hahaha
IMHO, the pendulum has swung too far toward a focus on skill and skill coaching. This is partially due to HC ignoring the teaching of 'hockey', in part by labelling everything as systems. And making that a dirty word. We end up with kids coming into U14, U15 and U16 with no idea how to play and attempt to win an actual game of hockey. Good coaching has to include both and I don't see a lot of it.
🤦♂️ you do understand that developing a hockey player is a marathon and that winning is not the goal, right??
You also understand that as players mature it’s 100000000% times easier to teach a new system over teaching a 22 yr old to skate? No one EVER has been drafted because they can execute a system. Good/Bad habits are present in every system so teach skills and habits when kids are young. Too much focus on systems will guarantee over time kids will NOT achieve their full potential.
you are kind of making my point. That being that the habits you mention, get lumped in as systems. Not what they are. Which are the good habits needed to play the actual game. My original post is not pro systems. It's pro teaching the whole game to the individual. No where did I say you need all systems all the time at young ages. 🤦♂@@Whowhatme
@@WhowhatmeI think you’re being hyperbolic in both your characterization of his comment, and of bringing in the notion of teaching a 22 year old to skate and the draft.
His point - one that I agree with - is that the pendulum has swung a bit to far toward skills above all else. A “system”, at its core, is just a way that players can utilize their skills in a coordinated, cooperative effort that is set up to maximize the make up of the roster against other rosters. It’s just a little bit of structure within the chaos that is always present within the game of hockey.
You point out, “habits” and that is an apt term, but isn’t a system just a structured series of habits that everyone participates in? Has there ever been anyone drafted because they execute a system? I don’t know, but I’ll grant you that you’re right. But, the real question has there ever been a player NOT drafted because they lack all ability to learn and execute the most basic systems? Again, I don’t know. But, it would seem to me that both are somewhat required, so why not teach them.
One thing I do know from experience, however, is that highly skilled players can quite easily be rendered ineffective by either a good opposing system and/or a lack of structure from their own team. All the dangles, toe drags and speed can become frustratingly useless against a team that understands even just the basics.
I think a lot of coaches don’t teach systems because they don’t actually understand them, from an X’s & O’s standpoint, and most importantly, from the “Why” standpoint, and they don’t want to look uninformed.
They’ll say things like, “the kids need to figure it out on their own” or “they’re not able to learn that kind of stuff yet.” Well, if we know it takes lots and lots of reps to learn and apply something, shouldn’t you get to teaching and trying to apply it? It’s a cop out I hear too often. They can learn it if you explain it to them properly and then PRACTICE IT! Don’t diminish the student’s ability to learn to try to paper over the teacher’s inability to teach.
Yes, it can be frustrating and can take a long time. But, it’s important, maybe more important, than so many of the skills that have become - as the OP said - emphasized more in the current hockey climate.
Structure/Systems are integral to development because they give players a place within which they can grow and apply their skills. Right now, unfortunately, growth is so skewed to fancy the offense “breakaway” game that everything is geared in that direction. The solid “role player” is view as an anachronistic player, and acclaim is given to players who habitually do stupid, selfish things with zero understanding of how they effect the over all team effort.
The tone of your comment is telling, in my opinion. You seem agitated by the OP’s comment. It’s like a rift has formed within the hockey world and coaches and associations choose sides then defend their side like a political party.
I’m on the side of development and, from first hand experience, I can tell you that I’ve seen lots more highly skilled players who don’t have a clue where to go or why on a consistent basis, than players who might be less skilled but are always in the right place for the right reasons. I see those less skilled players trying to be more skilled and coaches working to raise their skill, but very few working to get their more skilled players into better positions to be successful within the team framework.
@@QuantumRadii well.. gonna have to vehemently disagree with your take and with years and years of experience both in minor hockey and for a paycheque, I can 100% promise you that an over-emphasis on systems is a guarantee to limit the player’s potential. In my experience, 90% of coaches teach systems bc they lack the deep understanding of the game and what builds long term success. I see it ALL the time. Have guys from Jr C come out and help run practices and they can’t do the skating part bc my kids, by Pee Wee have better edgework than they do. They end up playing Jr C when, I know 100%, if I had coached them growing up they’d be playing major Jr or on a full ride. The reason they are limited is bc there was not enough emphasis on the basic skills. You can have ALL the systems you want but when my team is twice as fast as yours and we take away ALL your time and space, your systems fall apart quicker than you shortening your bench.
I NEVER said anything about the kid that tried to go end to end but I promise you it will not work against my team bc we will just take away their time, their hands and neutralize that player. None of my players are trying to go end to end either as that is counter productive to the TEAM game and that limits that player’s potential bc at some point they will not be able to go end to end so they need to learn how to pass (a basic skill present in 95% of my drills).
Habits are what should be taught and I do agree most coaches don’t know the game enough to teach proper habits. As for the FIO, I 100% believe in that concept just like you do. The best way to learn anything is through trial and error. You can’t bubble wrap kids and turn them into robots. They have to understand how to use their tools to be successful… themselves!! Our job as coaches is to teach the skills/habits the kids need to be successful and they need to learn (by experience) how to apply them and when (obviously with some guidance). That’s why SAGs have become so popular. You get to try and execute those habits over and over again in a competitive environment while having FUN.
I get kids at high school age that I coach and all know what a breakout is … and in games it’s 75% of the time a rimmer and we accept that? I ask the D, how do you create time & space for yourself?? 90% of the time, they can’t name 1 way to create time and space for themselves on a retrieval as easy example. I teach them 5-6 ways and we work on that for as long as I have them, at least 1/week for 20 mins. My goal is to have 0 rimmers. I believe if the first pass is tape to tape, we are out of our zone, 90% of the time, regardless of which breakout we use.
There is allot in that statement and #1 starts with skating. Doesn’t matter how good your system is or how well your player can play a system, if they can’t skate at an elite level, they are not playing past Jr B.
I ask my Cs; do you know what I mean by low and slow? No one has ever said YES. That’s a HUGE problem.
Do I believe in structure? .. yes of course. You can’t run anything (IMHO) without some form of structure but I see it way too often, kids become robots. My personal favorite is the cycle. Such a waste (or maybe even worse, dump and chase.. should NEVER be taught in minor hockey). I see kids get the puck on the half wall and their teammate is wide open at net front or they can walk the circle.. instead they chip it back to the corner (exactly where the other team wants it). Those are not hockey players… those are robots.
In my experience, over-emphasis on systems, especially at young ages, limits players’ potential. I’ve seen it thousands of times. Works short term, but come playoff time (year 1) their advantage is almost gone. 2-3 yrs later, they are in last place… bc they were not taught the basic skills and they’ve falling behind in the most important areas.
I am not a fan of Tony Dangle either… I can easily fix Tony Dangle with discipline. What is way harder to fix is someone’s skating stride by high school.
If I sound frustrating, it’s only bc I love kids and I hate when their “leaders” (adults) rob them of their full potential bc they don’t know how to develop an athlete properly.
@@QuantumRadii last point. What happens if I spend all this upcoming season implementing my system and next season a different coach teaches a completely different system? I’d say that was a complete waste of 1 yr of development and really kids only have about 4-6 yrs of real development yrs… you’re not teaching systems until probably Pee Wee at earliest.
What part of Sudbury are you from? It makes me laugh that we kinda have the same ideology. What’s your birth year?
As my son grew up, I heard from real hockey guys that Novice was too late. If you didn’t play competitive by Novice you fall behind.
The scenario about NZ 1-2-2 is NOT just hockey, it show ups everywhere. It’s shows up in baseball, soccer, lawn work, cleaning. As Andy said when we were kids we played… unsupervised play, there is none of that anymore. When is the last time you had to wait for a road hockey game (while driving).
Technology is a HUGE reason for it.
I didn’t play AAA until Pee Wee. The odds of doing that now… is very little.
Here is a better example of guy that could not skate enough to get to NHL is Corey Locke. No one had more skill than him in CHL and smarter hockey player. His skating was the major reason he didn’t translate.
Connor McDavid is the skilled guy. You saw it today in skill competition. Is he the best hockey player? Probably
To fix that gap… get rid of technology!!
This is why hockey development is stupid. Only kids who can afford 15k a year are AAA. Could be the most skilled
Kid in three generations but you are poor so scouts won’t see you There is no other sport where we add a pretend higher level that is just basically a rich parents travel club.
There is really some merit your comment, but to say that it’s only related to hockey is not accurate, in my opinion.
Golf, for a long time, has been dominate the “country club kids”, and I know from friends and family that club soccer and baseball are expensive as well.
@@QuantumRadii yeah golf would never have crossed my mind, that’s an old man sport. I am aware that baseball has gotten stupid too