The Problem of Divine Hiddenness: An Islamic Response: with Bassam Zawadi
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- Опубліковано 28 лют 2023
- Check out Bassam’s work at his:
Blog: islamicdiscourse.substack.com/
Website: www.call-to-monotheism.com/
Personal Academia Page: independent.academia.edu/Bass...
Managed Academia Pages: independent.academia.edu/Isla... & independent.academia.edu/Refu...
*Timestamps:*
00:00 - Introduction
00:47 - Today's Topic
03:34 - Schellenberg's Divine Hiddenness Argument
19:16 - A Summary of Schellenberg's Argument
21:21 - An Overview of Responses to Schellenberg
28:09 - An Islamic Response
35:20 - A Critique of the First Assumption
44:50 - A Critique of the Second Assumption
51:31 - Concluding Remarks
53:55 - Review of the Argument & its Response
57:00 - Final Remarks & Wrapping Up
@Asadullah SAAiD many thanks!
@@BloggingTheology
No Muslims can answer this SIMPLE QUESTION, NONE!!! And better start worrying your salvation.
Simple question,
Is the word of al lah a PURE LANGUAGE, that can cleanse man's soul?
@@renatolopez6337 what are you talking about? Your question doesn’t make any sense. Please rephrase.
AFTER YEARS AND A LIFETIME OF LEARNING AND ABSORBING SO MUCH KNOWLEDGE WE COME TO THE REALISATION THAT SHIA ISLAM IS THE TRUE PATH OF ISLAM. AS INTENDED BY PROPHET MUHAMMAD PBUH. NOT HOW HE'S DETRACTORS AND ENEMIES A WANTED. THE ONES CALLED THE HYPOCRITS BY ALLAH.
@@renatolopez6337
We’re talking to Atheists, not Christians.
He is not veiled from us; it is our eyes that are veiled from Him.
"Guide me now or you don't exist" sounds like a mere repackaging of the same emotional statements that many atheists make. Not sure if arguments like these should be taken seriously from an academic standpoint given the conspicuous bitterness behind it.
Absolutely not lol. This is completely ridiculous. As soon as you get into the details it becomes a strawman argument with fancy words. It's the classic atheist tactic
It does have an air of haughtiness to it. Arrogance is a helluvadrug. And it is at the root of such a bitter condition.
I'm so happy these videos are reaching masses.
OMG that topic sounds sooo interesting 😭 honestly I just love
this channel!
Glad you enjoy it!
It's a theory most loved by those who hate reality AND responsibility, are too afraid of the alternative(s) or simply coming up with endless theories instead of looking at what's already here.
Easier to believe in multiple or parallel Universes instead of looking at the scary outlook that life is a straight line; you come to this world and you leave it shortly afterwards. Where from and where to, that's the eternal question.
Masha'allah brother paul is not taking a break, may Allah reward you for your time and work in his sake. Keep them rolling, I enjoy listening to them while working.
Schellenberg is yet another one of those who want God to fit their own criteria - the creation giving its Creator parameters to fit and terms to meet.
Basically comes down to: "Well, if God didn't give me what, how, where and when I think I should have something, it must be that God doesn't exist.", as if God is supposed to be everyone's magic wand, like a servant instead of a master.
This is such an important video, especially sincd it gained popularity these last few years. May Allah bless you both.
هُوَ الْأَوَّلُ وَالْآخِرُ وَالظَّاهِرُ وَالْبَاطِنُ وَهُوَ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عَلِيمٌ ﴿الحديد: ٣﴾
I've yet to watch the video, but my preliminary response is that had God not wanted us to know about Him, He wouldn't have instilled this pre-disposition towards believing in Him in the first place.
What is his definition of "personal relationship"?
It must go both ways. Allah is constantly providing for us: the air we breathe, all the contingencies for our muscles to work, eyes to see, food to eat etc
And we express our gratitude with our obedience, isn't that a relationship?
If a finite person fails to recognise these blessings or even rejects that they're from God, then the relationship breakdown is his/her own fault because Allah is still open to that relationship by continually providing these blessings
This was excellent
JazakALLAHukhairan
Assalamo alaikum brother Paul, thanks for another great video. I was wondering if you have made any videos on Divine Simplicity vs the Divine Essences argument or if you plan on making a video on the topic any time soon?
The answer is in the Quran which describes the layered relationship of God with His slaves, be it resistant or non-resistant. Even the guidance is multi-dimensional reality which we may not so easily understand from our Cartesian perspective.
@@charlievaughan1308 very good questions. Pardon my complicated language. What I meant by 'layered relationship' was that God's guidance is gradual; as the servant gets closer to Him, His guidance becomes more nuanced and detailed. Prophet Muhammad said to his close companion Ali that 'if you leave 10% of Islam, you cannot survive. However a Muslim towards the end times, if he does 10% of Islam, he will be saved'. This degree of proximity to God was what I meant.
Otherwise you're right, our relationship with God is direct, limited by our own bandwidths of communion. God says in a hadith qudsi that, my slave wouldn't draw near me with anything more lovable than what I made mandatory for him. He will keep getting nearer by optional deeds, until I become his limbs that he holds with, his eyes that he sees with, etc (meaning: God will guide his every action once he gets closer to God by mandatory and optional good deeds).
As for the second part, i.e. multi-dimensional reality, means that we're limited in space-time. However God encompasses past and future and the endless possibilities of the reality which is multi-dimensional. God's guidance considers those possibilities unlike our limited knowledge from a limited perspective.
@@charlievaughan1308 thank you for your good wishes 🙏. We're the guest of the Creator, this way or the other. Our role is the servitude with humbleness and gratitude for what we have received in advance: Being! Even in this worldly life we see that we have to do things in more or less right way, otherwise we don't get the desired results. The same is true for the hereafter. The setup is like that, no matter we like it or not. We may as well thank for the setup and play along well with enthusiasm. Hope we all do that successfully.
Our misconceptions about God usually obstruct our path to Him. Quran is preserved revelation of God that you may read for yourself to understand His direct message to you. Prophet Muhammad was sent as a mercy to the creation. I am sure you're capable of receiving that too, brother.
Asalamu Alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatu
Does brother Basam have a UA-cam channel of his own, if so what is it called??
I believe he is another anchor of blogging theology. I might be mistaken
@Malik That's not him
When they see a Rolex watch they say wow what remarkable people made it , but when they see magnificent creations n laws which are enforced on every atom n photon with absolute perfection , in such a way that no atom or photon can escape the law , they say it poped out of the blue lol . God is not hidden , God is visible through magnificent creations all over the universe
@fahimakbar123
When you see a Rolex watch, one thinks it is made by someone. But you can still ask about the origins or genesis of this someone. But when we look at the universe, we just stop at the creator?? Where does the creator come from? What is this creator's origins and genesis?
@@paulthomas281 this is most common question . When we analyze table we think it has been created n we think of carpenter , when we analyze tree we consider it a creation of nature , when we analyze nature we realize it's set of rules under which matter n energy act in a disciplin , this discipline requires a mind n force to create n enforce these laws , we call that force a Creator , when we become able to analyze The Creator like table tree and nature only then we would be able to tell if Creator is also a creation , and find it's Creator , and then it's Creator till we get infinite chain of creators . When we are looking for missing person we end our search where traces end , we don't run all over the planet , similarly scriptures like Quran tells of Prophets who are traces of God n who point towards One Direction n this is the theme of this channel , these scriptures can be analyzed on scale of history n science
ua-cam.com/users/shortsqhpWvx9RTrg?feature=share
@@paulthomas281 God, if exists, would be categorically different from creation, i.e. He'd be necessarily existent, self-explanatory. Hence, the question doesn’t apply to him.
@@ishmammohammadadnan1525 Those are your axioms. In your axiomatic setup, that works. If you like this axiomatic setup, then believe in it. I don't want to stop you.
The first-cause thing-y has been debated for centuries. It is not convincing.
@@ishmammohammadadnan1525 There might be a first cause. Why would that cause have to be an omnipotent being? If it is, great. I just don't care.
We should not have belief systems about what might be true. That's an abuse of thinking and action.
How can we establish the differnce between hidden and non-existant ? If somebody claims pixies and elves exist , how do we know they are real , when he claims they are hidden ?
Good question. One way of thinking about it is that God in particular is a necessary being upon which all else is contingent. While contingent, non-necessary beings (like pixies, elves or spaghetti monsters) may not exist if they are hidden, a necessary being can only be hidden and not non-existent.
Now this begs the question of whether God is indeed necessary. Hamza Tzortzis lays out some compelling arguments in his book “the divine reality”. He has some talks on UA-cam about the book as well if anyone’s interested.
@@a4482921 What does it mean for something to exist ? in my understanding it means that it manifests itself in some way or form in reality . Is this understanding correct ? If it is correct and God does exist , then my question is how does God manifest in reality ?
@@arbitrarium7336 Brother I will suggest you to watch videos of Dr. Zakir Naik .. If God Wills, Then You will find all your answers...
@@arbitrarium7336 Your question is very Good. Why GOD is hidden is the main Question? The Answer is GOD Almighty is so so so Great that We can't see HIM in this world. If GOD arrives in this WORLD, We will not bear it and die. Why We will die? Because We are Not in a condition in this world to bear a fraction of second's glimpse of our Creator. He is so Great and So Bright that We cant see HIM. IS GOD infinity? Yes, Because in this Modern Era of Science and Technology, Science Proves that The Universe We are seeing is just a fraction of the Observable Universe, Scientist just able to see 1% of Whole Universe according to their claims, But Universe is way more vast. GOD tells this in Holy Quran, >>>Chapter 41 Verse 12Chapter 65 Verse 12>Chapter 71 Verse 15
💯👍
Thanks Paul , but the argument from God’s hiddenness entails more aspects than the love/guidance premise. I hope could have been discussed.
e.g1- is there really hiddenness? Or is GOD so obvious that we turn our eyes away from him.
2- is there better or more logical way than what God revealed to us about his existence? the answer is of course no but we could discuss how no better way??
I agree with you, I think "divine hiddenness" is just a myth and the prophets and signs have made it perfectly clear
denying the obvious is just immaturity or petulance
Exactly. Its a myth that we need to elaborate on , I hope Paul will read our posts and try to find expert to answer.
Yes GOD is hidden but It needs explanation and Your 2nd query also needs explanation, and here I will explain it to you. Why GOD is hidden is the main Question? The Answer is GOD Almighty is so so so Great that We can't see HIM in this world. If GOD arrives in this WORLD, We will not bear it and die. Why We will die? Because We are Not in a condition in this world to bear a fraction of second's glimpse of our Creator. He is so Great and So Bright that We cant see HIM. IS GOD infinity? Yes, Because in this Modern Era of Science and Technology, Science Proves that The Universe We are seeing is just a fraction of the Observable Universe, Scientist just able to see 1% of Whole Universe according to their claims, But Universe is way more vast. GOD tells this in Holy Quran, >>>Chapter 41 Verse 12Chapter 65 Verse 12>Chapter 71 Verse 15
His website Call to Monotheism was Alhamdulillah a saver for me way back in2015-16
AFTER YEARS AND A LIFETIME OF LEARNING AND ABSORBING SO MUCH KNOWLEDGE WE COME TO THE REALISATION THAT SHIA ISLAM IS THE TRUE PATH OF ISLAM. AS INTENDED BY PROPHET MUHAMMAD PBUH. NOT HOW HE'S DETRACTORS AND ENEMIES A WANTED. THE ONES CALLED THE HYPOCRITS BY ALLAH.
@@kellysam2076 lol...
@@kellysam2076 Leave the Firqah ! And Come to Islam, Firqasism is a poison... There is No Sunni or Shia in Islam, There is Only Quran and Sunnah in Islam. Listen to Mufti Menk, Dr Zakir Naik. Leave this Firqa poison.
Allah does not judge or test a soul by our conceptual standards. 'Hell Fire' is a metaphor for not being in Sakinah forever. No one knows what Allah will do. So, just prepare yourselves and let Ruh-Allah guide you in this world "...the angels and the Ruh descend for every affair..".
No not spiritial
It literlly say their skin will be changed when they burn
And god said in quran he creates our body again like he did first time
Pls my friend go look again in what you say
36:31 Just to make sure I understand this correctly. Only a subset of gods moral code was revealed through the prophet, there are other "moral goods" that god has chosen not to reveal?
this isnt a problem, thats how it is,
him being hidden is him appearing, he is beyond form time and space, god is god, no one is like him his position is unique and what is unique can't be judged or guessed by anyone else, but to his regard no one is to start with , but he is,
the problem is a mirror to the problem of the absence of believe in the heart which is a gift from god him self to realize personnaly his presence, and demons and satans fight that multidimensionnally, there is no problem, but people most people will never realize, because they are busy living, and god gives them providence to live, few people will be enough empty to know, and it wouldnt have changed a thing that they have known , because all unknowinly know, and the task of worshiping is the same for knowers or believers who didnt know, or didnt complete knowing which isnt a task
سلام عليكم..جزاك الله خيرا..
Love ❤️ the attitude away from intelligence decadence .
Reflections on something we all face in life ..
Mindset ..
And Reflections on what we believe.
It was a Quote which stayed We Believe in the Same God الله As Prophet Musa *As*.
The Opening of The Sea 🌊.
To be working on myself and on your shoulders spreading Knowledge Ulama we benefits and I am grateful for that 🤲❣️
When I was in high school and later at university, I always thought that students who are complete failures in mathematics and physics, etc, are the same ones who turn to philosophy cause it makes them feel smart. That's always I thought that philosophy is such a waste of time, to individuals and to humanity in general.
There is no reason for a god who wants a relationship with his creations to remain hidden. By remaining hidden this god forces believers to use their imagination to invent their personal god.
This is a problem which only a god can solve.
Nah... that is what revelation and prophets were for.. if you seek God his guidance will reach you..
More precisely only Naturalism is the issues 🤔
Shellenberg tells God what he can and can't do as well as what to do and not to do.
Peak arrogance.
how the hell does schellengberg know whats in everyone mind lol
This is one of the most ridiculous objections against God.
For real..
Have We not given him two eyes a tongue and two lips and shown him the two paths. surah al balad
shellenberg is not sincere he would not give up his eyes for billions of dollars what a hypocrite and arrogance of the highest order.
I notice the argument's of these atheist's is always shallow and poorly thought out.
AFTER YEARS AND A LIFETIME OF LEARNING AND ABSORBING SO MUCH KNOWLEDGE WE COME TO THE REALISATION THAT SHIA ISLAM IS THE TRUE PATH OF ISLAM. AS INTENDED BY PROPHET MUHAMMAD PBUH. NOT HOW HE'S DETRACTORS AND ENEMIES A WANTED. THE ONES CALLED THE HYPOCRITS BY ALLAH.
Leave that Poison. Leave Firqaism. It will eat you all your good deeds. Come to Islam. Come to the Quran and Sunnah.
Read Sunnan Abu Dawood Hadith No 4597, The Word is clearly mentioned in this Hadith as Al-Jaamah, What does mean by Al-jamaah? Does it points to SHIA? NO.... Does it points to Deobandi? Barelvi? Ahle-Hadith? The Answer is NO,NO,NO... There no any single Sect who calls themselves Al-Jamaah.... So It means that It is the mainstream Muslims who following Quran and Sunnah and having Love of Ahle-Bayt. Just Simple explanation.
27:52 I think the points listed here all pose very good arguments for delaying religious influence on children up until age of consent or majority. Also, following the arguments, children born to muslim parents should not be considered muslims, because they can in no way fulfill any of those criteria.
Teaching a child to live his life according to a religion is better, because child would have a purpose for being good. Otherwise child may decide he won't do anything good, because why should he? When he is an adult, he can research religions on his kwn if he wants
And children in Islam are considered innocent for not having the mental maturity to actually think that deeply and so on. Being a child is enough to be innocent, they don't have obligations until they are old enough
Everychild is considered muslim till his father and mother or his enviroment make him belive in not one god
There is no problem with hiddenness
I am a follower of Jesus and a believer of the Bible for 50 years. Islam contradicts two most important essentials of christianity, Jesus being God’s son, and Jesus being crucified and raised to glory. God is SPIRIT, there is a disconnection between Him and us, that is why Jesus was born, to declare His existence by what Jesus did. Jesus said “No one can come to the Father except through me”, that is, our unrighteousness has blocked us from His presence, so Jesus is bringing us to Him by His sacrifice which God himself planned from the very beginning.
You are not a follower of Jesus. You are a follower of Paul of Tarsus
@@ykn7018 Did you realize Paul was sent by Jesus? So we must listen to him, there should not be any differences between Jesus and Paul.
There is nothing divine in Islam because God said in the Bible He is not part of any religion that builds Idols made by man's hand's and is claimed to be an Image of God. If any Muslim wants me to quote scripture proving it I will.
al lah is hidden bc " It " is uncreated meaning " it " does not exist. 🤣🤣
Did you hit your head somewhere? 🤔
So, when Stephen Hawking said that the universe is eternal, did he mean that it didn’t exist?
Mocking Everything is a poison...Stay Logical, Listen Everyone Opinions...
I have Live Mathematical Signs of Almighty God Presence? You wanna proof???? I will debunk you very hard, Come on dare to ask ???
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