I think you banged the nail on the head with your comments on the current industry's interview problem. I have heard time and time again how developers of old age have gotten into tech with NO problems. In fact, my first job (although it never came with the developer/SWE title) was 2 interviews if you count the 1st HR interview and then offer. In contrast, as of late, 5 stage/round interviews. Many of interviewers exhaustingly asking arbitrary questions typically having a WIDE range from poor/excellent interviewing skill. For this reason, I have NEVER EVER taken reddit posts where they say they got a job in 10-20 applications seriously. It's highly anecdotal and the person who posts about it has plenty of reason to make their post public than the person who is already heavily discouraged from the existing market after 1000s of applications.
I avoid Reddit like the plague, but I know the kind of people you're talking about. It is not unusual to hear stories of people who are skilled still having major issues finding work. The industry isn't dead, but it's just so oversaturated that its projected growth model is completely unsustainable. In a way colleges created this problem, along with cultural pressure to go into STEM fields for EVERY single student. The upside is that a new opportunity is borne with every new problem. Finding it isn't easy... But there is always an opportunity to solve people's problems, and monetize that.
knowing a lot of math isn't the important part, but being comfortable with using what you already know is very important. not being comfortable with math and trying to code is like trying to move around in a wheelchair
An amazing video! This has to be one of the most comprehensive and clear guides I've seen on landing that first tech job. Your breakdown of the basics, including book recommendations, was incredibly helpful, and I especially appreciated how you combined your own background and experiences with actionable advice. It really felt like you were talking directly to aspiring tech professionals. Your clarity and depth of information made the video extremely informative and engaging, and I know that many will be referring back to it often as they navigate their job search. Thank you for creating such a valuable resource!
I super regret not getting a plumbing license. Although I am super happy being a programmer, finally. I broke in by getting really good at C# jeopardy and then cold contacting recruiters -- then working in the contracting to big biz world. Surprised big business contracting is not talked about more on the interwebs. I also love programming books. How I learned. Those are some of my favorites as well. Love "Reverse Dunning-Kruger effect"
Thanks for the comment, Luke. It's never too late to go blue collar ;). I considered it myself MANY times. Something nice about being able to be outside and work with your hands.
I agree with everything and complement it with something else. It still helps me today to study new technologies by creating real software that solves personal problems or at least entertains me. In other words, start thinking about a project that you are interested in building and only then start studying the topics that will lead you to achieve the objectives of that project.
Great add on! I built an entirely pointless program that makes crypto trades based on the weather of a random coordinate on the planet. No need for that, but it was amazing API practice. (it also outperformed my more sensible trading bot which was funny)
Thank you so much for this video and for some of your other recent ones. I am a self-taught SE with three years experience and its been hell applying, getting hired, getting laid off, going through a bootcamp, placements not working out. Just today I was thinking about quitting and your clear-headed direction and positive attitude really boosted my spirits. Thank you :)
You're very welcome. I have an interview coming out next week that I highly suggest you watch, because it's an industry that I think is booming by comparison to many others and has some great new opportunities for careers. Thank you for watching! Never give up. This is a bump in the road, not the end of it.
Thank you for the tip of choosing Python as the language for interview tests. Indeed even when my best trade is C#, I find Python indeed easier to dissect and alter during the stress tests.
Truth that needed to be said,!! thank you for putting the effort of explaining the reality of the field at the moment, since everything right now is doom and gloom!
You're very welcome! I hope to encourage and inspire people looking into the field, despite all of the negativity in the world. There is always a positive outlook to focus on.
No matter how much knowledgeable one is it totally depends on your destiny(should be at the right place at the right time) ... I know it sounds demotivating but currently the market is overly saturated and also the demand situation is also bad and every year no of Engineers increasing so things are not moving in the right direction .... I can see everyday freshers or juniors(even seniors at times) are struggling to secure projects and work .... its not only about how good you are , it's also about how lucky you are at a given moment
I got a BA in Public Justice in 2010 to become a police officer. But I ended up working blue collar work for 14 years. But my life circumstances have changed where remote is very appealing to me and I love Coding, computer work, and numbers. I'm enrolled in a Bootcamp which I have enjoyed thus far. I only have around 6 weeks left before graduating. It was suppose to be a 22 week curriculum but I put almost 90 hour weeks the first few weeks so it is looking like I can finish in 15 weeks. Big pro of Boot camps, at least mine is they fill knowledge gaps that you don't know you have. I learn a lot from AI now but if I don't know what to prompt it, then how can I? This is the reason I think there is a lot of value in schooling still even though the internet can gain you access to pretty much anything, you have to dig and know where to.
Also thanks a lot for the video! A large portion of the themes you talk about I've been prepping myself for and preparing for mentally. A lot of times your advice is for verbatim of what I say. Such as working 40 hour weeks applying until you get a job, it really only makes sense. My personal plan is to work on projects around 20 hours and apply for 40 hours, at least starting off. I'm excited for my own future and I greatly appreciate seeing a UA-cam who is realistic but positive. So thank you once again!
@@JoshChristiane it’s great hearing advice from another person’s voice. Keep being real and constructive it means a lot in today’s world of over sensualism and negativity.
Necessary video! Somehow it's a hugely common topic over the past decade, but anything recent is so negative and doomery (maybe add "In 2024" to the title?). Also please avoid the urge to pointlessly cut away to stock footage lmao. I'm so spent on that and other retention editing techniques. Obviously this is just preference but your current style is perfect. The zoom cuts are rare enough and done for emphasis, so it's not distracting. PS gonna go buy that C# book.
@@JoshChristiane hell yea it's necessary. Also I wish would've had that book list a few years ago, I'm all self taught and it's hard navigating the sea of books and courses. I ended up deciding books are the best way to go so it was nice having that validated. I still grabbed most of your reccs anyway, I still have plenty to learn!
Is open source dead for newbies? There can be quite a high bar by the existing contributors/repository owners. I've been making my own projects for years and haven't contributed to other people's projects. I don't really quite know how to search for a project that interests me deeply, too. I feel I would do a disservice to the owners if I contributed without having the same understanding and goals as them. I feel much more motivated to create my own project and contribute to my own self-interests especially while I learn a new language or framework for an extended time. That is to say, while I think the bar is quite high for contributing, I at least practice code styles, linting, CI / CD, testing all on my own free time and quite passionately. So I at least have exposure to those ideas, if they're implemented in a repo.
Even if you don't contribute to the master branch on a project, you can still use that on your resume. You can fork any project you like and add to it or just build your own tools around it, then that will still show up on your Github as a possibly resume builder. Sure it's even better if it gets pulled, but you're right in saying some of the bigger projects are difficult about that. Probably starting with smaller ones first and getting active on discord servers for contributing devs would help you get your foot in the door. It's good you're keeping your skills up and developing your own projects, that's probably the most important thing you can do to keep bettering yourself as a programmer. Just keep focusing on broadening that skillset and trying to find projects you're interested in. Finding or developing passion is sometimes as hard as the skill itself... It's a mastered skill in of itself.
Hi Josh. I watched your unity video. Is it ok to keep learning unity as it has way more tutorials out there. I’m also learning Godot. But the tutorials for godot is less complete now. Thanks
Of course, no reason not to if it has the tools you need. It's not like the software will disappear. Even if Unity as a company went under, the software would get sold and bought out by another company... Which arguably might be better for it anyways. One way or another Unity isn't going anywhere so you have no reason not to keep learning with it. Especially if your use of Unity is focused on education and not making commercial projects yet, then for sure keep going since it has the most and best tutorials of any engine.
Companies may not directly ask you where you went to school in an interview, but some may use where you went to school to filter you out before an interview. This is a well known phenomenon at the bigger companies especially for junior positions, they will give give the benefit of the doubt if you went to a top CS school.
How much math is needed for programming? Zero. Addition isn't math. Basic logic isn't math. Math is analysis, algebra, geometry, probability, ... NOTHING in programming is even remotely related to math. Unless you're doing math related programming (eg. numerical methods for differential equations, simulations, ... etc.) but that's not what we are talking about. Single exception is runtime of algorithms, but that's easy.
As a hiring manager although it is never mentioned that a college degree is a must, almost never there is hire without college degree and never a hire from bootcamp (when did this become a thing?). College is a big competency test, you finish college you have discipline and at least you are smart. Obviously most college graduates won't make it but the best cs graduates are enough to fill all the positions in the industry. No matter how many books you read and leetcode answers you get to know by heart, the interviewers knows that the knowledge is superficial and there is no basis. Overall tech industry needs scars on your back even when you are a newcomer. College can give you some. Most college curriculums are way advanced and technical plus you get internships let alone the network you get. In worst case you can work on a research centre while being in college, it is very common. You can't create real software and create a portfolio if you don't have an actual job doing so. UA-cam zirp, and influencers create a fake reality. Now that zirp is over (thank god) tech is as boring and uncool as before and we can continue on our jobs.
I didn't finish college (no degree). Immediately after working on some great open source projects I went to work at a FAANG company, which eventually led to a senior role at another. That is basically how my career started, and I have never once had trouble getting work without a degree. My experience may not speak for everyone, and each person/situation is unique, but I'm just sharing how I was able to get into the industry. Thanks for sharing your view though!
In Maryland I asked a recruiter once, what was the percentage of bootcamp grads that were hired in his experience. At that time (2019), he said 20 - 30% . Now self learners I would expect to be lower but In Software there has always been a people hired without a degree, just had to be exceptional back in the day.
My first job (8 years ago) I didn't even finish high school. Went to a meetup and stayed late talking about what I'm interested in making and my ideas. Got 3 people trying to interview me the next morning. Like I was trying to put together a text editor. One of the more brilliant coworkers I've had, she just had a bootcamp before her first job (us). You CAN create a portfolio of interesting software, by simply finding a problem and solving it. And then the next one. Obviously the hello world of apps, a todo app, is not enough. Make something real and interesting which you can talk about in detail.
My first job (8 years ago) I didn't even finish high school. Went to a meetup and stayed late talking about what I'm interested in making and my ideas. Got 3 people trying to interview me the next morning. Like I was trying to put together a text editor. One of the more brilliant coworkers I've had, she just had a bootcamp before her first job (us). You CAN create a portfolio of interesting software, by simply finding a problem and solving it. And then the next one. Obviously the hello world of apps, a todo app, is not enough. Make something real and interesting which you can talk about in detail.
Yep. I’ve been the technical person on many, many developer interviews and it’s always a battle with the mostly clueless HR/person manager who rambles on about needing someone with a degree. It’s nonsense. I do give some weight to the fact that a degree proves a certain amount of staying power and commitment, but equally I’ve interviewed people with a top line degree who are utterly clueless when asked to show their skills. On balance it’s a fairly insignificant indicator of a person’s knowledge and skill. A killer GitHub profile trumps the best degree by miles. How those skills are obtained is a fairly moot point.
![How to Get a Developer Job - Even in This Economy [Full Course]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/6nz8GXjxiHg/mqdefault.jpg)
Be my friend on X at: x.com/Josh_Christiane
You’re doing a massive service to programmers just starting out, and the veterans. Absolutely commendable stuff.
Have a fantastic weekend. 😊
Thanks so much, Lawrence. Very nice comment from you :)
I think you banged the nail on the head with your comments on the current industry's interview problem. I have heard time and time again how developers of old age have gotten into tech with NO problems. In fact, my first job (although it never came with the developer/SWE title) was 2 interviews if you count the 1st HR interview and then offer. In contrast, as of late, 5 stage/round interviews. Many of interviewers exhaustingly asking arbitrary questions typically having a WIDE range from poor/excellent interviewing skill.
For this reason, I have NEVER EVER taken reddit posts where they say they got a job in 10-20 applications seriously. It's highly anecdotal and the person who posts about it has plenty of reason to make their post public than the person who is already heavily discouraged from the existing market after 1000s of applications.
I avoid Reddit like the plague, but I know the kind of people you're talking about. It is not unusual to hear stories of people who are skilled still having major issues finding work. The industry isn't dead, but it's just so oversaturated that its projected growth model is completely unsustainable. In a way colleges created this problem, along with cultural pressure to go into STEM fields for EVERY single student. The upside is that a new opportunity is borne with every new problem. Finding it isn't easy... But there is always an opportunity to solve people's problems, and monetize that.
knowing a lot of math isn't the important part, but being comfortable with using what you already know is very important.
not being comfortable with math and trying to code is like trying to move around in a wheelchair
Really good point, totally agreed.
An amazing video! This has to be one of the most comprehensive and clear guides I've seen on landing that first tech job. Your breakdown of the basics, including book recommendations, was incredibly helpful, and I especially appreciated how you combined your own background and experiences with actionable advice. It really felt like you were talking directly to aspiring tech professionals. Your clarity and depth of information made the video extremely informative and engaging, and I know that many will be referring back to it often as they navigate their job search. Thank you for creating such a valuable resource!
Thank you so much! Just doing my best to share some experience.
I super regret not getting a plumbing license. Although I am super happy being a programmer, finally. I broke in by getting really good at C# jeopardy and then cold contacting recruiters -- then working in the contracting to big biz world. Surprised big business contracting is not talked about more on the interwebs. I also love programming books. How I learned. Those are some of my favorites as well. Love "Reverse Dunning-Kruger effect"
Thanks for the comment, Luke. It's never too late to go blue collar ;). I considered it myself MANY times. Something nice about being able to be outside and work with your hands.
I agree with everything and complement it with something else. It still helps me today to study new technologies by creating real software that solves personal problems or at least entertains me. In other words, start thinking about a project that you are interested in building and only then start studying the topics that will lead you to achieve the objectives of that project.
Great comment, thanks for your input!
Great add on! I built an entirely pointless program that makes crypto trades based on the weather of a random coordinate on the planet. No need for that, but it was amazing API practice. (it also outperformed my more sensible trading bot which was funny)
Thank you so much for this video and for some of your other recent ones. I am a self-taught SE with three years experience and its been hell applying, getting hired, getting laid off, going through a bootcamp, placements not working out. Just today I was thinking about quitting and your clear-headed direction and positive attitude really boosted my spirits. Thank you :)
You're very welcome. I have an interview coming out next week that I highly suggest you watch, because it's an industry that I think is booming by comparison to many others and has some great new opportunities for careers. Thank you for watching! Never give up. This is a bump in the road, not the end of it.
@@JoshChristiane You're absolutely right about it being a bump in the road. Looking forward to this vid
Thank you for the tip of choosing Python as the language for interview tests. Indeed even when my best trade is C#, I find Python indeed easier to dissect and alter during the stress tests.
Yeah I found it SO much easier during stress tests as well.
As a new grad SDE who is still struggling with job hunting, thank you for your inspiring video : )
You're very welcome! I hope you find something that's an amazing fit!
Truth that needed to be said,!! thank you for putting the effort of explaining the reality of the field at the moment, since everything right now is doom and gloom!
You're very welcome! I hope to encourage and inspire people looking into the field, despite all of the negativity in the world. There is always a positive outlook to focus on.
No matter how much knowledgeable one is it totally depends on your destiny(should be at the right place at the right time) ... I know it sounds demotivating but currently the market is overly saturated and also the demand situation is also bad and every year no of Engineers increasing so things are not moving in the right direction .... I can see everyday freshers or juniors(even seniors at times) are struggling to secure projects and work .... its not only about how good you are , it's also about how lucky you are at a given moment
Thanks for watching, don’t forget to check out my beginners reading list in the description. A lot of great books in there waiting to be read.
one software developer job on LinkedIn as you observed has over 2000 applicants pay $140k to $160k per year
I got a BA in Public Justice in 2010 to become a police officer. But I ended up working blue collar work for 14 years. But my life circumstances have changed where remote is very appealing to me and I love Coding, computer work, and numbers. I'm enrolled in a Bootcamp which I have enjoyed thus far. I only have around 6 weeks left before graduating. It was suppose to be a 22 week curriculum but I put almost 90 hour weeks the first few weeks so it is looking like I can finish in 15 weeks. Big pro of Boot camps, at least mine is they fill knowledge gaps that you don't know you have. I learn a lot from AI now but if I don't know what to prompt it, then how can I? This is the reason I think there is a lot of value in schooling still even though the internet can gain you access to pretty much anything, you have to dig and know where to.
Also thanks a lot for the video! A large portion of the themes you talk about I've been prepping myself for and preparing for mentally. A lot of times your advice is for verbatim of what I say. Such as working 40 hour weeks applying until you get a job, it really only makes sense. My personal plan is to work on projects around 20 hours and apply for 40 hours, at least starting off. I'm excited for my own future and I greatly appreciate seeing a UA-cam who is realistic but positive. So thank you once again!
Thanks so much for your detailed comments, loved hearing your story!
@@JoshChristiane it’s great hearing advice from another person’s voice. Keep being real and constructive it means a lot in today’s world of over sensualism and negativity.
Necessary video! Somehow it's a hugely common topic over the past decade, but anything recent is so negative and doomery (maybe add "In 2024" to the title?). Also please avoid the urge to pointlessly cut away to stock footage lmao. I'm so spent on that and other retention editing techniques. Obviously this is just preference but your current style is perfect. The zoom cuts are rare enough and done for emphasis, so it's not distracting.
PS gonna go buy that C# book.
Thank you so much for the advice, I'll just keeping chugging away with what I'm doing haha. Really appreciate the comment!
@@JoshChristiane hell yea it's necessary. Also I wish would've had that book list a few years ago, I'm all self taught and it's hard navigating the sea of books and courses. I ended up deciding books are the best way to go so it was nice having that validated. I still grabbed most of your reccs anyway, I still have plenty to learn!
That book is SO good, you're going to love it.
Is open source dead for newbies? There can be quite a high bar by the existing contributors/repository owners. I've been making my own projects for years and haven't contributed to other people's projects. I don't really quite know how to search for a project that interests me deeply, too. I feel I would do a disservice to the owners if I contributed without having the same understanding and goals as them. I feel much more motivated to create my own project and contribute to my own self-interests especially while I learn a new language or framework for an extended time.
That is to say, while I think the bar is quite high for contributing, I at least practice code styles, linting, CI / CD, testing all on my own free time and quite passionately. So I at least have exposure to those ideas, if they're implemented in a repo.
Even if you don't contribute to the master branch on a project, you can still use that on your resume. You can fork any project you like and add to it or just build your own tools around it, then that will still show up on your Github as a possibly resume builder. Sure it's even better if it gets pulled, but you're right in saying some of the bigger projects are difficult about that. Probably starting with smaller ones first and getting active on discord servers for contributing devs would help you get your foot in the door.
It's good you're keeping your skills up and developing your own projects, that's probably the most important thing you can do to keep bettering yourself as a programmer. Just keep focusing on broadening that skillset and trying to find projects you're interested in. Finding or developing passion is sometimes as hard as the skill itself... It's a mastered skill in of itself.
i got about half way through the players guide and stopped.. i really need to go back to it.
Such a good book! Definitely recommend keeping up with it, I reference it sometimes.
Hi Josh. I watched your unity video. Is it ok to keep learning unity as it has way more tutorials out there. I’m also learning Godot. But the tutorials for godot is less complete now. Thanks
Of course, no reason not to if it has the tools you need. It's not like the software will disappear. Even if Unity as a company went under, the software would get sold and bought out by another company... Which arguably might be better for it anyways. One way or another Unity isn't going anywhere so you have no reason not to keep learning with it. Especially if your use of Unity is focused on education and not making commercial projects yet, then for sure keep going since it has the most and best tutorials of any engine.
@@JoshChristiane thanks Josh! Very well said!
Amazing!
Thanks, :D! Appreciate the kindness.
great tnx
Thank you! :)
Companies may not directly ask you where you went to school in an interview, but some may use where you went to school to filter you out before an interview. This is a well known phenomenon at the bigger companies especially for junior positions, they will give give the benefit of the doubt if you went to a top CS school.
That has not been my personal experience while interviewing and working for large FAANG companies. Perhaps there are exceptions to rules, I can't say.
9:48
How much math is needed for programming? Zero. Addition isn't math. Basic logic isn't math. Math is analysis, algebra, geometry, probability, ... NOTHING in programming is even remotely related to math. Unless you're doing math related programming (eg. numerical methods for differential equations, simulations, ... etc.) but that's not what we are talking about.
Single exception is runtime of algorithms, but that's easy.
As a hiring manager although it is never mentioned that a college degree is a must, almost never there is hire without college degree and never a hire from bootcamp (when did this become a thing?). College is a big competency test, you finish college you have discipline and at least you are smart. Obviously most college graduates won't make it but the best cs graduates are enough to fill all the positions in the industry. No matter how many books you read and leetcode answers you get to know by heart, the interviewers knows that the knowledge is superficial and there is no basis. Overall tech industry needs scars on your back even when you are a newcomer. College can give you some. Most college curriculums are way advanced and technical plus you get internships let alone the network you get. In worst case you can work on a research centre while being in college, it is very common. You can't create real software and create a portfolio if you don't have an actual job doing so. UA-cam zirp, and influencers create a fake reality. Now that zirp is over (thank god) tech is as boring and uncool as before and we can continue on our jobs.
I didn't finish college (no degree). Immediately after working on some great open source projects I went to work at a FAANG company, which eventually led to a senior role at another. That is basically how my career started, and I have never once had trouble getting work without a degree. My experience may not speak for everyone, and each person/situation is unique, but I'm just sharing how I was able to get into the industry. Thanks for sharing your view though!
In Maryland I asked a recruiter once, what was the percentage of bootcamp grads that were hired in his experience. At that time (2019), he said 20 - 30% . Now self learners I would expect to be lower but In Software there has always been a people hired without a degree, just had to be exceptional back in the day.
My first job (8 years ago) I didn't even finish high school. Went to a meetup and stayed late talking about what I'm interested in making and my ideas. Got 3 people trying to interview me the next morning. Like I was trying to put together a text editor.
One of the more brilliant coworkers I've had, she just had a bootcamp before her first job (us).
You CAN create a portfolio of interesting software, by simply finding a problem and solving it. And then the next one. Obviously the hello world of apps, a todo app, is not enough. Make something real and interesting which you can talk about in detail.
My first job (8 years ago) I didn't even finish high school. Went to a meetup and stayed late talking about what I'm interested in making and my ideas. Got 3 people trying to interview me the next morning. Like I was trying to put together a text editor.
One of the more brilliant coworkers I've had, she just had a bootcamp before her first job (us).
You CAN create a portfolio of interesting software, by simply finding a problem and solving it. And then the next one. Obviously the hello world of apps, a todo app, is not enough. Make something real and interesting which you can talk about in detail.
Yep. I’ve been the technical person on many, many developer interviews and it’s always a battle with the mostly clueless HR/person manager who rambles on about needing someone with a degree. It’s nonsense. I do give some weight to the fact that a degree proves a certain amount of staying power and commitment, but equally I’ve interviewed people with a top line degree who are utterly clueless when asked to show their skills.
On balance it’s a fairly insignificant indicator of a person’s knowledge and skill. A killer GitHub profile trumps the best degree by miles. How those skills are obtained is a fairly moot point.
L takes! Dont do it! You wont get a job and sacrafice everything.