The Gracies tried to edit even their own martial history. The first fighter in the family was George Gracie, but he was edited out of the history when he wouldn’t accept some terms from his brother Carlos. Then, Hélio edited out Carlos after he died in 1994 and said in fact it was him who made the most significant technical contributions to BJJ. The fact is, the Gracies’ greatest contribution to BJJ is in continuing Maeda’s tradition of challenge matches. Without the UFC as a marketing tool for Jiu Jitsu, BJJ wouldn’t be as prolific as it is today. They, the Gracies, showed that the techniques work, but they aren’t the originators.
Gene is correct about the Gracies, but he also tries to promote himself excessively and does not know when to stop. He also claims he was black balled in Hollywood, and the fights he was in were rigged against him.
I wouldn't really blame him since he was raised by an ego driven family who would beat you up with crow bars if they can't beat you with their jiu-jitsu.
@@Mataninja Oh I don't blame him, as he's been raised by the family and couldn't reasonably say otherwise (though the statements he makes are over the top, albeit several years ago). Just unfortunate that people often attribute historical knowledge and accuracy to martial artists based on their undoubted skill in the art (whether a Gracie or big name in any other art). He's amazing at the art, but seems to know less about its history than many will give him credit for.
Sorry, its up to the teacher to research their specialty before they declare it to be the truth. He's a good practicioner but he is also part of the problem.
@@Mataninja Oh snap I wouldn't expect to find you on this channel. But yeah everyone here drives a good point. I urge alot of my friends in the BJJ community, to read the Game of JuJitsu. Where it goes into ground work, the guard position as well as throws. The guard was already a concept before the gracie's we're relevant. They really have done a good job in misinforming their students and erasing their lineage to Japan.
This by far is the best Judo & Jujitsu channel by far on this site. It sweeps aside all the pointless politics & ego driven altered so called realities of some with actual facts.
The Gracies didn't invent anything, But they did popularized jiu jitsu and made it more mainstream. Absolutely love your work, please keep up the good work.
Man I dont think they even popularized Jiu Jitsu....they popularized Judo ground work and a bit of takedowns. Japanese Jiu Jitsu and Judo was in the US before the Gracies and the UFC. A lot of military combatives was influenced by traditional japanese jiu jitsu and judo. The gracies are good marketers.
My opinion. Gracie family were not the only ones to practice JiuJitsu in Brazil. First of all they were originally from Belem-Para (North Brazil) were they possibly met and trained with Maeda, who must have had other students. Then moved to Rio (Southeast Brazil). But during their time in Rio, then the capital of Brazil until the 1960s, there was also the birth of "brazilian catch wrestling" (Luta Livre) and the growth of Kodokan Judo with the intense immigration from Japan (specially to Sao Paulo state). Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is what was born from the cooperation and conflicts from those different arts, adapted by the sport competitive rules which allows for a much more intense focus on ground work. It is awsome to see some techniques from modern BJJ at 1950s Kosen Judo for instance. For Luta Livre I like the work of Roberto Leitao, and Nicolas Renier (France) is doing a great work in youtube. For Jiu Jitsu I like the work of Osvaldo Alves, who was a exchange student at Tenri University during the 1950s, where he was part of the Judo Team. Bringing back much expertise on techniques and training methods to BJJ. This university has created several world and olympic champions.
I always thought of the guard as something that people instinctively do, defensively, when grappling. Whether they've trained it (and understand it) or not; on some level, I think the guard is instinctive to the human body. Helio's a jiujitsu legend, but he didn't invent the guard out of nowhere.
You are spot on on the Japanese not boasting about the skills and abilities. In my experience, you are taught respect and humbleness. Everything else speaks for itself.
You can be as good as it gets, if you are unable to show it or make it visible, your voice won't be heard. No doubt that Japanese people are hugely competent but when it comes to marketing, they are at a huge disadvantage compared with the way the Gracies showed the world how grappling was superior albeit linking it to their name which is part of the game.
This is one of the greatest channels ive ever seen by far and caters to exactly everything it is i wish to know aboht history and grappling thank you chadi
@@Chadi Do you plan to do a comparison of Kodokan Goshin Jitsu vs the Gracie BJJ Self-Defense curriculum? There are lots of youtube video footage of Kodokan Judo Goshin Jitsu World Champion. And videos of Gracie self defense curriculum. Very, very, similar only Judo has more techniques. Merci.
Great video. Most of my grappling background comes from BJJ, but the info your presenting is spot on! People have always called me crazy about this very topic. There is so much evidence to support multiple grappling systems use of the guard prior to BJJ. It's like the bow an arrow, it popped up all over the world independent of eachother. It's so cool how we find a way to solve a problem, and how similar it looks from place to place. Thanks for spreading great info!
The Gracies didn't invent the guard, BUT, they were pivotal in the emphasis of its use and it being the most practical from your back. Its that simple.
The guard was a defensive position that is older then Judo. There are depictions of it being taught by samurai. However when weapon carry was outlawed (Swords) in Japan the guard became more explored. There are many submission from this defensive position. Judo was not taught on plush pads or spring boards, like the UFC, or grappling pads, one did not want to play guard on haystack mats. One wanted to get better at judo. Around the end of the 19th century, it ended up being an explored defensive setup (guard) . Helio Gracie liked Newaza, he hated Judo! He could not do it, and lost a lot on his feet. He did not have the patience to understand how a small opponent can take down a large opponent on their feet. It's hard when equally matched. BJJ is basically cliff notes to grappling. It's empowering to submit. Because of this hatred, for being horrible at Judo, he ensured matches were setup on spring loaded mats, such as a ring, or very soft mats in case of throw. He did not want to be injured. As the UFC grows, you will see more of that smash style. Because, in the end, take down and control over someone is more important skill to know -- then JJ. JJ is for people that don't know how to do those two skills well. You can see this reflection in the UFC, as BJJ practitioners struggle against opponents that know and understand the importance of take down and top control, versus a knowledge of submissions. Again, submissions in general are just the cherries, the take down and control is the ice cream -- in that order -- and takes years to learn 6 -10 to be reasonable at it. BJJ can only takes three years to learn if you have that foundation. It's why submissions in Judo are taught later in belt ranks.
"Guard" also found in Fukien ground boxing. Slightly different application. Also in an obscure Chinese book from early century in black and white. I think it was on chin na or something.
@@Chadi I found the book. Its title "Chin Na Fa" - Liu Jin Sheng , Zhao Jiang. Translated by Tim Cartmell. There's a UA-cam video put out by Michael Blomberg from the book. Title : "Ancient Chinese Ground Grappling (Chin Na)".
I've been wanting a video like this forever. Awesome! Bjj didn't so much invent guard as they discovered more inventive strategies within the guard concept.
Just as important as pictures, or perhaps even more important is the language used to describe this position. In Judo, it is called "do-osae" translated as "body vise"or "body press(ure)". This indicates how it was intended or at least expected to be used and would suggest a less complex origin than the current state of the position in both Judo and Jiu-jitsu.
I’m not gonna blame Kron, he was just told the same story as everyone else, and he believed it. I’m not gonna deny the role of the Gracie family played to popularize jiu-jitsu and bring it to the US. But from that to creating the guard is a stretch.
They didn’t invent anything to be sure, but they focused on specific techniques with such emphasis that it gives the appearance of a separate system. Especially, since the originating art no longer focuses and barely utilizes those techniques.
Various koryu apparently did have some sort of nealing or ground work techniques. And i think i heard fussen Ryu had a great impact on BJJ and apparently had quite a focus on ground work
Bro I love your videos, really are super good and got a lot of information that I didn't even heard of and I'm really passionate about martial arts , (as jiujitsu and muay thai practitioner my self ) and even so a lot of the things you talk I never heard before, so great job on that side. But, a little constructive critic I can give you is, I don't know why some time I feel that the way you present your videos is a little bit heavy, slow or tedious. Sometimes I'm watching your video at night and the images, clips ( that some a really like btw) and the linear monotony of your voice make me fall asleep and I'm constantly trying to don't sleep because I really want to know about your content. So I suggest, with all do respect, maybe you can try to make your videos more "active" so I can absorb all the amazing information you provide. Just a little constructive critic. Keep up your videos. And I hope you understand my English because I'm from Latin America 😁. Good luck wish you the best.
Chadi very nice to see you take such an in depth historical approach to the history of grappling - in particular use of new sources it’s long overdue and very interesting and appreciated
Chadi - I really mean it! If you’re interested I have got hold of a few academic history articles about little known international wrestling styles (like medieval Chinese and German wrestling) I could send you if you like?
Great information! It’s all jujutsu, and we may not know the origin of the majority of techniques, but the good news is there is constant evolution. The only unfortunate piece is that many practitioners of Koryu or BJJ don’t realize that there is value from both the old and new and tend to only stick with their version. Good stuff!👍🏼
Buen video!!!! Creo que la influencia deportiva del judo ha ido dejando en el olvido técnicas muy efectivas en CQB, que eventualmente van a ser reencontradas en el sparring con resistencia por simple prueba y error. Éxitos
The positional hierarchy that the Gracies invented is their greatest contribution to martial arts. Everything else they “created” existed already. But the positional hierarchy created a clear blueprint for winning fights that hadn’t been explored and that’s something they should be commended for and nothing else.
They think they create triangle as well. With that said, BJJ groundwork is advance compared to what most judoka practiced. Closed guard isn't used as much for sure now because of the rule. Groundwork in judo is so weak now because of competition rules, even compared to 70s
There are many different kind of guard. You mentioned butterfly,spider, x, Jimahava, rubber, 50-50. Some are better than others. Sometimes they work and sometimes they don't. Last week I was watching Royce Gracie use his guard against Ken Shamrock. At the end of the fight, he had to have the blood washed off his face.
Something you might find interesting and entertaining: Korean Broadcast Service had a show called "Kool Kids on the Block" in which they took Korean celebreties and taught them a sport they didn't know already and then had them compete. The 10th season they did Judo. Here is a list of the episodes, they are in Korean with English subtitles. m.ua-cam.com/video/liHvn-vV7m4/v-deo.html
The image at 7:22 is probably not one of sumo wrestlers. Those look like fundoshi and not mawashi. They don't have any sagari and they don't really look like a mawashi anyway. It makes sense that at some point they just wrestled in their underwear up to some point.
The Gracie thinks they invented Jujitsu, but they didn’t. All they did was to revive a form of effective fighting neglected by the Japanese. We do have to recognize that.
My opinion: the guard is older than BJJ, but Rolls Gracie was the first to adopt it as the core of BJJ. And after him everybody in BJJ started using it this way. The guard is the core technique of BJJ.
Rolls IMHO was the greatest of the Gracies. He took things from Sambo, Amateur Wrestling, and Judo, in developing Gracie Jiu Jitsu. He supported cross competition, which the Gracies used to do. Nowadays, many BJJ competitors will compete in overall grappling and BJJ tournaments, but not in other specific grappling style competition. I do see some Judokas attempt to go into BJJ tournaments, but the IJF had to ruin that also.
Katame waza including legs around bottom (now days known as gaurd) as well as ebi (shrimp) and everything else in Jiu-Jitsu comes from the Kyoto Judo Schools.
All the old black and white clips I have seen with catch wrestling do not show any submissions, locks and guards. Its all average wrestling with pinning and points. And all fights the classical catch wrestlers was in were all fixed and worked.
I would say that the only thing the Gracie's have innovated are leg locks from Ashi Garami positions, it is however important to note the distinction between "innovation" and "invention". Everything else seen in BJJ has been documented in Judo/Japanese Ju Jutsu going back centuries.
IDK I love Kron / Rickson. great jiu jitsu.. Chadi i love your video with Robert drysdale, great interview ... I want to tell you something you should look into. I am a huge BJJ guy how ever i love the samurai / ninja history. and i every now and then i see some bjj in these books. you should look up a author Antony Cummins he is a japanese history expert and he has translated many samurai / ninja manuals in english. books like Bansenshukai - the shoninki - Hagakure to name a few. you can find some / alot of jiu jitsu stuff in the days of the samurai. which is what i love reading about. you seem to like the period right after the samurais lol.. great videos. but you should look into some of the very old samurai text.. not the stephan keyheys crap. but real textx written by samurais.. you could find some realy cool judo/jiu jitsu in some of that.. great stuff man.. keep them comming.. if you could do a video on hapkido too at some point.. i love hapkido.. it was my first martial art.. cheers
The gracie conspiracy is a erroneous perspective. It's something that based on information taken out of context. How did a quote from kron suddenly become a quote from helio? Helio didn't say he invented anything. Only modified it because he didn't have strength to apply the original techniques. Jigaro kano did the same thing in judo with jujutsu. Why one is praised and other trashed is just extreme bias. The gracie master text has few newaza techniques. Most of it is self defence. There is no similarity to judo. The gracie master text is Helios work. It's his legacy. Great video as always chadi.
Thank you Joe! As a Gracie family member Kron has the responsibility to transfer accurate information, his claims as erroneous as they are they're pretty clear, but when examined next to the evidence they don't match.
@@Chadi I don't understand why what they said is so important. Maeda lied to cover his identity calling himself count korma. Gracie's had many enemies and closed door challenges so lying was important for protection. You wouldn't want your enemies gaining knowledge of your secrets. Fighters lie all the time. Still going on now in professional combat sports. They have to promote themselves. They have to sell fights. So not surprised Gracie's did that. It's a business. The criticism is unfair though.
Thank you brother for all your information but I have a question It seems like you’re saying that Brazilian didn’t really do much they just balance it out a little more .... I ask that because what i research about judo to Brazilian jujitsu seems like that
It is the case! Brazilians and north Americans took and it started it's evolution back in the early 2000s into the game we have today leg locks no gi etc but everything before the 2000s was just old judo
@@Chadi lol no of the newaza Mifune was doing. I have a ton of his footage in my library but not that. Was hoping you could share the original source if possible. Thanks again for this.
I'm really not into comments, but I think the Gracie's are grabbing credits which should not be theirs. My Judo chief instructor has an old demo technique moves from early 40's. That time I alredy knew that before the Gracies those guard techniques already exist.
Kosen judo is all guard game and was out longer than BJJ. 1894 or somewhere in that time Kosen was being trained; 1920’s BJJ was being taught in Brazil. So the Gracie’s didn’t invent anything new they molded it their principles, concepts and Philosophy.
It doesn't help said, multiple lies just in the short speech he had in the video. Even the idea of all jiu jitsu is somehow learned from his grandfather. Oswaldo Fadda's BJJ lineage isn't even a Gracie one.
@@Chadi Well, many Gracie members are aware of what they are also saying. Rener Gracie stated, that Kimura was like 80 lbs. more than Helio. The Gracies are aware, that Fadda's lineage is NOT from Helio. His students did fight the Gracie students afterall. Yet, Kron still said ALL jiu jitsu is somehow learned from his grandfather.
@@alanguages I see your point! this video discusses the claims and examine the evidence, what Kron or Rener believe is for them the evidence is all out there.
@Chadi I think you should make a video in the future about Japanese jiujitsu and tag it to the gracies if they have social media accounts. I saw one style of jiujitsu with beautiful striking and throws.
Oh man i saw the ilustrations but they dont have a focuse in the closed guard. When Kron Say that Helio invented the closed guard he meant he invented the game in the closed guard, sweeps and passes. Closed guard is still a prohibited move in judo because it is like stalling but in bjj we know that is not true.
No! Oda came up with passes and pulling, and even de la Riva back in the 1910s and 1920s, there's no evidence before and many other things. ua-cam.com/video/045hsVNFYkI/v-deo.html
@@Chadi Yeah i've seen this video, it was one of my friend Maumau, Maurício. Read back when i said the game in closed guard. Listen, i'm Fadda lineage student i would have all reasons to hate Helio but i recognize what he did. The bjj how you know today born in a single move how we know as closed guard in judo dojime (which is prohibited) the development to unlock or progress in this position changed theorecally the dynamics of sport. Until today a lot of people strugle to understand what Helio created even me but i see now. About De la riva, well there is a lot of old footage even in elder bjj competition claiming the guard but the majority them lack some elememts they only show the De la riva hook which doesnt mean to be a guard.
Great fighters but a very very scratchy family (have you seen the ufc 1 conspiracy) Search for “Gracie’s fooled everyone” on UA-cam I believe it will be a great followup video
KP LLC he was brutal and I understand where he is comming from. Also if you look at Helio vs kimura the Rufino Dos Santos ordeal and you realize that they sent Renzo because of their massive ego to destroy sakuraba. You really realize that as a family the Gracie’s are a bounch of (insert word here!)
@@jcabanyes_ The Gracies are not great people with a nice history but I don't need Bill Wallace to lie. Everyone knows the first few UFC's were a commercial for Gracie, they made the event. Just like when Guy Mezger beat the hell out of Sakuraba at the Pride GP 2000 and they called it a draw. Sometimes it is nice to have the promotion behind you. Without rewatching the video the two fallacies that stick out most were, Bill said that Royce was scared of the Sumo wrestler and that the Sumo did not lose because they stopped the match. Royce fought the greatest Sumo ever Akibono and beat him. The wannabe sumo wrestler in UFC 1 got destroyed in seconds and started crying. I guess Bill wanted it to continue to see if they could kill him. He said there were no wrestlers but Ken Shamrock is an amatuer and submission wrestler.
In this same interview Kron claims his grandfather was the first to specialize in everything. Think about it. It would be a stretch to claim he mastered everything. But by definition you cant specialize in everything.
This poor fool probably believes that his family "invented" all those moves and techniques. Miyake and Tani sure had a lot of nerve, publishing a book on Gracie's inventions four years before he was born. The links to the Game Of Jujitsu and Textbook of Jujitsu are great ! ! Is there a similar link to my bible, My Method Of Judo ? My surviving copy is badly damaged from Hurricane Katrina.
BJJ Brown Belt with previous experience in Japanese Ju Jitsu and some Judo here and gotta day Kron must’ve been smoking some strong stuff to be that deluded with his statements in the video. At least at a fundamental level all the techniques in BJJ are directly from Ju Jitsu and Judo with slight variations made in some instances. Yes a lot of new techniques these days exist but that goes with development in any martial art or sport over time. Personally I’d be in favour of stripping the Brazilian part of the name ‘Brazilian Jiu Jitsu’ and just call it Jiu Jitsu. The art comes from Japan first and foremost and is now wildly practised by practitioners of all races and nationalities all of which are making developments in the art. Hope that made some logical sense what I wrote haha but those are just my views. Thank you for shining more truth of the history of the family of arts of Ju Jitsu, Judo and Jiu Jitsu as there are too many false truths out there being preached that people need to be more aware of. Keep up the amazing content Chadi! 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
I can’t get over how many people don’t do their research on these guys they even literally use the story of being small and by using good technique you can beat a larger opponent. Quite literally kanos story. They use all the same ne waza movements didn’t create anything yet people think they made this whole grappling system. Lol
Kron is wrong, but regardless for argument sake, the guard of ancient japan does not compare to shit to the guard of today. It is evident by how many stories of Rickson destroying the best Judoka of their time when he came to japan to challenge Rickson. And look at the evolution chain of Grappling today, Japanese grapplers are nothing compared to those who actively train and try to deveolope their guard and style for BJJ. Look at ADCC, good example on how it pits styles against each other. Who are usually on top? Not Karl style of 'catch' or 'judo' or 'wrestling' but Jiu Jitsu people. Who adapted to the rule set that is geared towards wrestling/take down. BJJ guys adapt quite easily to any rule set in grappling that involves submission. And lets look at the example on 'basics' you metioned, @5:15, the basic armbar from guard. Any trained person, in other arts as well, can see the problem with this. Sure its basics and needed but why not chain it to other moves that has higher percentage? Also the finish isnt good too, feet position, knee structor, everything about this is wrong to control and finish it properly. Any ancient judo books will not go into detail about this. Heck in my area theres a judo legend who created some of the best judo people in the area (and top in the country), but when it comes to basic grappling and finishes, its too flashy (like in judo books and instructionals) and not very good for those who has tech in grappling arts (evident because i tapped them and they invited me to go train with them, provenional team). Why the biggest and best guys usually are winners and smaller judoka people are afraid of said big guys. BJJ like Kron said is used for small people to make them dangerous in guard or any positions. Like i said the 'ancient' scrolls will not help you or anyone get better at grappling. They lack the fine details that is needed to win in at a gym or even a local tournament. Sure history is great, but why not give credit where its due to the smaller people who train everyday and sharpen those styles that was either passed down or developed independently on the mats? I have made my own moves on the mats then when i researched it, it was already been founded (some moves has yet to be discovered by others). And its not to toot my own horn, but rather i can use their moves to sharpen or see where i lack. Thats the beauty of BJJ, its easy to see your style you do that someone else does and see the little improvements that can be done to make one's game better. As for the ancient scrolls, it wont give you mystical power, it wont make you better at the gym, and it wont make your dick bigger, but rather it just makes your brain gather more info that is useless when you are training in a sparing match. Would you remember some outdated 400 year old scroll that lacks details taht is needed? Or would you rather have tech that is taught that has to be battle tested and tweeked during mat times? Also that north south choke takes a long time to master, and when i say master i mean tapping out purple belts on the regular on the mats.
Well in judo too many techniques invented during the sparing including the bjj guard by the way but unfortunatly because judo choose the wrong path by accepting sport rules competition and bjj will surfer the same problem . For me bjj sport is becoming less selfdefence oriented ( by the way the grappler Who are in the top now not bjj and not judoka . The wrestler Who are in the top and if you look mma bjj is closing his effectiveness)
Thank you for this comment! But i think you missed the point, it is to simply find the oldest evidence of the guard, we know today's guard is better, Kron's claims were so erroneous they had to be addressed.
The sports rules dictate where the skill is developed, that said the throwing skill of judo has evolved by leap and bounds, comparing a Kosen judoka and average IJF Judika the kosen judoka have advantage if they fight in ground only rules , if the IJF rules favor ground fighting, there wouldn't be room for BJJ. Wouldn't you agree?
@@chrischiang1512 Rules are there yes. But as past 2-3 decades, BJJ as a grappling art surpassed many others, in terms of tech and innovation. Heck even bjj has 'rules' but those who trains it dont really care for the rule set set by certain org. I dont adhere to IBJJF, so i train bjj my way and style. Which i have made new moves styles and progression in the past 8 years. Heck since it has given me freedom to do certain moves, im able to change it well with takedowns. I even took down a young Judo stud who was gearing for the olymics here, with a single leg. Ok sure i am using me as an example, which is fine and dandy. But another Judo guy, who came to my gym (competed in the 2008 Beijing Olympics) destroyed a few purple belts in a few seconds WITH GROUND GAME, no judo or stand up. Arm bar'd them in 10-20 seconds. Clearly his lifetime of grappling made him apt to 'NeWaza' or sparring. But then he kept being my student for BJJ and i taught him a lot. Learn so much he was able to tap me after 2 years. His foundation of Judo is outstanding and the 'rules' of Judo didnt apply since he came in to improve on an already great grappling game. There is a reason why people can transition from Gi to No Gi quite easily in BJJ. Many BJJ world champs said they train in the gi a lot and it even helps them in No Gi. No Gi can be seen as 'real world' fighting. Sure there are issues with NO-GI and gracie Bullshit, but truth be told, those people who train BJJ can understand and adapt quite easily to other styles and systems. THe rules are there to keep people in check, which makes them less prone to injury. No gym for BJJ would even dare follow IBJJF to a T. Now as for Judo not innovating, ground game due to rule set. Sure that can be seen, but its the gyms that adhere to those rules sets, not the org. If a sport becomes an olympic game, then their progression goes out the window. Same with TKD, yet whose fault is that? Why BJJ is able to flourish, people train in it because its enjoyable, the tech learned from it is appicable to all body types and styles, and can be done from people of any game and income level. This is where judo is failing, innovation and adpation to other arts or styles. Judo is known as 'stand up' but the old judo can be seen as everyting 'ground and takedown.' Yet today its not so much. While BJJ is innovating 'to the rule set' but are looking beyond it. Once there is money in BJJ competition, there will be more people training and competing for cash prizes. MMA is the next step for BJJ people, but risk reward isnt worth it to transition for many people, who spent their entire lives training BJJ as a grappling art. Now can this be said about Judo, Sambo, Catch and other styles? When i see the superstars or instructors today who teaches those are art huge dudes who are winners. I want to see little guys who uses leverage, angles and scrambles to win rather than power and control.
@@Chadi Kron is an idiot. He still thinks his gramps created BJJ and still thinks his lineage is under Kano, which its not looking at the historical record. Helio, George and Carlos Sr were thugs and exploited their mythos to gain money fame and power. Also i wouldnt take Kron for his word, flat-earther. Sure one of the best BJJ ever, top 100 easily, but outside the mats.. Well hes full of shit.
Many old pre-war Judo film footage before WW2 on youtube showing Japanese Judoka doing collar chokes from the guard And applied exactly as he claimed Helio supposedly invented it. I know he's repeating what his family taught him but with a short youtube search he can educate himself & be free from propoganda.
Here's the thing, everything has already been done; twice. I dont think the allure behind the gracie's is that they invented the guard or ground techniques (regardless of their claims), rather they sharpened it more so than any other culture or technique base before them. As i brown belt I have no problem saying jiu jitsu is very close to judo in many aspects, historically they come from the same branch and judo does many things better than modern jiu jitsu but I also think its time for judoka's to get off their historical high horse of; "pfff we did that first, we're better."
@@Chadi I get the notion/feeling that many judoka have the feeling of superiority because of "we did it first" mentality or the youre not a *real* martial artist mindset. Secondly i think the opinions of Kron are irrelevant even if people believe him, the effectiveness of the technique is the only thing that should matter at the end of the day and if judokas really have the proper techniques Kron's opinion means nothing as all you have to do show how much better a judoka can do it. I mean the greeks were heel hooking each other left and right back in the day and Pankration or luta livre or catch may have a better entry system to the legs, but whatever study and apply the technique regardless of what its called and who developed it.
@@Chadi As a BJJ Academy owner and someone that makes a living off of BJJ, I have to be thankful that the art they made famous reached me here in Sunny South Africa.I reached purple belt level under Matt Thornton (Machado Jiu Jitsu) and then up to black belt under Roberto Atalla (Gracie Lineage). However doing much research and following channels like yours I realized that grappling has a very long history and much that we do today as new has been around for a long time.Yes I do think that today's BJJ guys (especially guys like John Dannaher) have come up with not better but more efficient ways of doing things but the Gracies shouldn't be given all the glory as to the inventers of all things Jiu Jitsu.I would be happy if you took a look at my channel and gave feedback as to the techniques I show.
To all the haters, yes Kron is a little bit indoctrinated but so is most of the world in one way or another. Just think on this though. If not for the Gracies we would all still be doing kung fu or karate katas. They brought judo groundwork back from the dead. They were the ones who brought back realistic fighting and gave the world the UFC. Now wrestling and grappling are also in the mix. From this new wave came Pride and others. I started BJJ and now also am a big fan of judo. I used to be a kung fu person in my black pajamas thinking I was a ninja. Thank you the Gracies for opening my eyes.
Helio did not reinvent gyaku juji jime, it was always done “Helios” way. That shit drives me crazy. Helio was way bigger than kano or mifune, but ya sure, he invented leverage...I love bjj but damn the Gracie’s are horrible historians. And I will say, I guess bjj may be credited with prioritizing fighting from guard, but of course they didn’t invent it
“The guard” is hardly a uniquely jiu jitsu/MMA/Asian invention. I’m no fighter but I remember instinctly doing that in at least one fight I had in the 7th grade in the 60s. I’m sure wrestlers did that but I was thoroughly unaware of wrestling techniques! I remember kicking him in the side of his head with my shoed foot! I fucked him up that way. He got up and quit!
Poor Judokas. They train for over a century and didn't knew they learned it from Helio.
That made me chuckle
Ha!
🤣🤣
That's an ippon right there
Trained over a century but are light years behind BJJ on the ground. Too bad for internet Judokas!
The Gracies tried to edit even their own martial history. The first fighter in the family was George Gracie, but he was edited out of the history when he wouldn’t accept some terms from his brother Carlos. Then, Hélio edited out Carlos after he died in 1994 and said in fact it was him who made the most significant technical contributions to BJJ. The fact is, the Gracies’ greatest contribution to BJJ is in continuing Maeda’s tradition of challenge matches. Without the UFC as a marketing tool for Jiu Jitsu, BJJ wouldn’t be as prolific as it is today. They, the Gracies, showed that the techniques work, but they aren’t the originators.
I agree
Look like Chadi will has a video about Geogre Cracie.
They're originally Scottish and rigged the UFC.
I remember gene Lebell saying that the Gracies didn't invent anything new
Gene is correct about the Gracies, but he also tries to promote himself excessively and does not know when to stop. He also claims he was black balled in Hollywood, and the fights he was in were rigged against him.
If Judo Gene said that, then that is good enough for me.
@@alanguages Well Milo Savage was wearing knuckle dusters against LeBell on that infamous match.....
Amen Rashid!
Gene Lebell also said prowrestling is effective which is pretty nonsense.
Kron: great jiu-jitsu practitioner, terrible historian.
I wouldn't really blame him since he was raised by an ego driven family who would beat you up with crow bars if they can't beat you with their jiu-jitsu.
@@Mataninja Oh I don't blame him, as he's been raised by the family and couldn't reasonably say otherwise (though the statements he makes are over the top, albeit several years ago). Just unfortunate that people often attribute historical knowledge and accuracy to martial artists based on their undoubted skill in the art (whether a Gracie or big name in any other art). He's amazing at the art, but seems to know less about its history than many will give him credit for.
100%
Sorry, its up to the teacher to research their specialty before they declare it to be the truth. He's a good practicioner but he is also part of the problem.
@@Mataninja Oh snap I wouldn't expect to find you on this channel. But yeah everyone here drives a good point. I urge alot of my friends in the BJJ community, to read the Game of JuJitsu. Where it goes into ground work, the guard position as well as throws. The guard was already a concept before the gracie's we're relevant. They really have done a good job in misinforming their students and erasing their lineage to Japan.
This by far is the best Judo & Jujitsu channel by far on this site.
It sweeps aside all the pointless politics & ego driven altered so called realities of some with actual facts.
Thank you so much! That's what I'm striving for, i really appreciate it
The Gracies didn't invent anything, But they did popularized jiu jitsu and made it more mainstream.
Absolutely love your work, please keep up the good work.
Thank you! Will do
@@Chadi Could you please do a video on the guard from what you said at 1:40-1:53 and how it was a defense position or natural
Man I dont think they even popularized Jiu Jitsu....they popularized Judo ground work and a bit of takedowns. Japanese Jiu Jitsu and Judo was in the US before the Gracies and the UFC. A lot of military combatives was influenced by traditional japanese jiu jitsu and judo. The gracies are good marketers.
Mifune was demonstrating some pretty advanced techniques there
God of Judo for a reason
Does he have a book or videos?
@@iameladlevi They're all over UA-cam
@@iameladlevi The book by Kyuzo Mifune is called "The Canon of Judo"
@@Chadi yasss thank you Chadi😁😁
I m pertty sur the invented the electricity ans fire too or maybe Who knows the first homosepien is a gracie too
Good one!
Lol
Kron also thinks the Earth is flat so...
Jfc
His podcast with Eddie was a blast
WTF!
Eddie "Quatoof" Bravo converted him into it lol. Eddie is the real flat earth missionary!
Really? I thought it was Eddie Bravo
My opinion. Gracie family were not the only ones to practice JiuJitsu in Brazil. First of all they were originally from Belem-Para (North Brazil) were they possibly met and trained with Maeda, who must have had other students. Then moved to Rio (Southeast Brazil). But during their time in Rio, then the capital of Brazil until the 1960s, there was also the birth of "brazilian catch wrestling" (Luta Livre) and the growth of Kodokan Judo with the intense immigration from Japan (specially to Sao Paulo state). Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is what was born from the cooperation and conflicts from those different arts, adapted by the sport competitive rules which allows for a much more intense focus on ground work. It is awsome to see some techniques from modern BJJ at 1950s Kosen Judo for instance. For Luta Livre I like the work of Roberto Leitao, and Nicolas Renier (France) is doing a great work in youtube. For Jiu Jitsu I like the work of Osvaldo Alves, who was a exchange student at Tenri University during the 1950s, where he was part of the Judo Team. Bringing back much expertise on techniques and training methods to BJJ. This university has created several world and olympic champions.
Chadi, thank you so much for this video and all the links to references you provided. This is very helpful. I'm really happy I found your channel.
Thank you Genaro
I always thought of the guard as something that people instinctively do, defensively, when grappling. Whether they've trained it (and understand it) or not; on some level, I think the guard is instinctive to the human body.
Helio's a jiujitsu legend, but he didn't invent the guard out of nowhere.
Nope
You are spot on on the Japanese not boasting about the skills and abilities. In my experience, you are taught respect and humbleness. Everything else speaks for itself.
Indeed
You can be as good as it gets, if you are unable to show it or make it visible, your voice won't be heard.
No doubt that Japanese people are hugely competent but when it comes to marketing, they are at a huge disadvantage compared with the way the Gracies showed the world how grappling was superior albeit linking it to their name which is part of the game.
This is one of the greatest channels ive ever seen by far and caters to exactly everything it is i wish to know aboht history and grappling thank you chadi
Thank you for listening
Finally the Japanese masters getting the recognition they deserve! Thanks Chadi 🙏🏼
Thank you for listening
"wE iNvEnTeD tHaT!"
Not really
😆
LOL seeing Kano-shihan's and Mifune-sensei's face! hahahaha
Subtle humour
@@Chadi Do you plan to do a comparison of Kodokan Goshin Jitsu vs the Gracie BJJ Self-Defense curriculum? There are lots of youtube video footage of Kodokan Judo Goshin Jitsu World Champion. And videos of Gracie self defense curriculum. Very, very, similar only Judo has more techniques. Merci.
Great video. Most of my grappling background comes from BJJ, but the info your presenting is spot on! People have always called me crazy about this very topic. There is so much evidence to support multiple grappling systems use of the guard prior to BJJ. It's like the bow an arrow, it popped up all over the world independent of eachother. It's so cool how we find a way to solve a problem, and how similar it looks from place to place. Thanks for spreading great info!
Thank you Chris!
Always polite, to the point and honest. Great source of information Thank you for sharing this with us. Oss
So very interesting. The historical roots are so important.
Thank you Stephen always
The Gracies didn't invent the guard, BUT, they were pivotal in the emphasis of its use and it being the most practical from your back. Its that simple.
The guard was a defensive position that is older then Judo. There are depictions of it being taught by samurai. However when weapon carry was outlawed (Swords) in Japan the guard became more explored. There are many submission from this defensive position. Judo was not taught on plush pads or spring boards, like the UFC, or grappling pads, one did not want to play guard on haystack mats. One wanted to get better at judo. Around the end of the 19th century, it ended up being an explored defensive setup (guard) . Helio Gracie liked Newaza, he hated Judo! He could not do it, and lost a lot on his feet. He did not have the patience to understand how a small opponent can take down a large opponent on their feet. It's hard when equally matched. BJJ is basically cliff notes to grappling. It's empowering to submit. Because of this hatred, for being horrible at Judo, he ensured matches were setup on spring loaded mats, such as a ring, or very soft mats in case of throw. He did not want to be injured. As the UFC grows, you will see more of that smash style. Because, in the end, take down and control over someone is more important skill to know -- then JJ. JJ is for people that don't know how to do those two skills well. You can see this reflection in the UFC, as BJJ practitioners struggle against opponents that know and understand the importance of take down and top control, versus a knowledge of submissions. Again, submissions in general are just the cherries, the take down and control is the ice cream -- in that order -- and takes years to learn 6 -10 to be reasonable at it. BJJ can only takes three years to learn if you have that foundation. It's why submissions in Judo are taught later in belt ranks.
Well said I agree
Great insight
"Guard" also found in Fukien ground boxing. Slightly different application. Also in an obscure Chinese book from early century in black and white. I think it was on chin na or something.
I'll check it out
@@Chadi I found the book. Its title "Chin Na Fa" - Liu Jin Sheng , Zhao Jiang. Translated by Tim Cartmell.
There's a UA-cam video put out by Michael Blomberg from the book.
Title : "Ancient Chinese Ground Grappling (Chin Na)".
@@SI-ln6tc I'll check it out
I've been wanting a video like this forever. Awesome! Bjj didn't so much invent guard as they discovered more inventive strategies within the guard concept.
Indeed
Just as important as pictures, or perhaps even more important is the language used to describe this position. In Judo, it is called "do-osae" translated as "body vise"or "body press(ure)". This indicates how it was intended or at least expected to be used and would suggest a less complex origin than the current state of the position in both Judo and Jiu-jitsu.
I’m not gonna blame Kron, he was just told the same story as everyone else, and he believed it. I’m not gonna deny the role of the Gracie family played to popularize jiu-jitsu and bring it to the US. But from that to creating the guard is a stretch.
I agree
Strange for us . We come from a parallel universe where kosen judo exists. But now we are in heliocentric universe for sure.
They didn’t invent anything to be sure, but they focused on specific techniques with such emphasis that it gives the appearance of a separate system. Especially, since the originating art no longer focuses and barely utilizes those techniques.
Cadi, can you do an intro on yourself?
What you’ve learned and from whom and what got you to do this history research?
Big oss!
I'm an architect and i love history of arts, architecture and martial arts
Chadi
Did you practice some judo or jj or bjj?
@@iameladlevi I'm a judoka and i did aikido too, some bjj
Truth Be Told
Exactly!
Various koryu apparently did have some sort of nealing or ground work techniques. And i think i heard fussen Ryu had a great impact on BJJ and apparently had quite a focus on ground work
Bro I love your videos, really are super good and got a lot of information that I didn't even heard of and I'm really passionate about martial arts , (as jiujitsu and muay thai practitioner my self ) and even so a lot of the things you talk I never heard before, so great job on that side. But, a little constructive critic I can give you is, I don't know why some time I feel that the way you present your videos is a little bit heavy, slow or tedious. Sometimes I'm watching your video at night and the images, clips ( that some a really like btw) and the linear monotony of your voice make me fall asleep and I'm constantly trying to don't sleep because I really want to know about your content. So I suggest, with all do respect, maybe you can try to make your videos more "active" so I can absorb all the amazing information you provide. Just a little constructive critic. Keep up your videos. And I hope you understand my English because I'm from Latin America 😁. Good luck wish you the best.
Thank you for the suggestion I'll take it to heart
Really great video 💪🏻 keep it up my brother
Thank you Matt
Chadi very nice to see you take such an in depth historical approach to the history of grappling - in particular use of new sources it’s long overdue and very interesting and appreciated
@@mattc1447 i truly appreciate it
Chadi - I really mean it! If you’re interested I have got hold of a few academic history articles about little known international wrestling styles (like medieval Chinese and German wrestling) I could send you if you like?
@@mattc1447 please do my instagram is chadi.ae
Can anyone name or list all those chokes? Some I have never seen and would like to try them.
Great information! It’s all jujutsu, and we may not know the origin of the majority of techniques, but the good news is there is constant evolution. The only unfortunate piece is that many practitioners of Koryu or BJJ don’t realize that there is value from both the old and new and tend to only stick with their version. Good stuff!👍🏼
Thank you Robert!
Buen video!!!! Creo que la influencia deportiva del judo ha ido dejando en el olvido técnicas muy efectivas en CQB, que eventualmente van a ser reencontradas en el sparring con resistencia por simple prueba y error. Éxitos
Muchas Gracias Mario 🙏🏻
The positional hierarchy that the Gracies invented is their greatest contribution to martial arts. Everything else they “created” existed already. But the positional hierarchy created a clear blueprint for winning fights that hadn’t been explored and that’s something they should be commended for and nothing else.
Oh please
Chadi lol you don’t agree?
They think they create triangle as well. With that said, BJJ groundwork is advance compared to what most judoka practiced. Closed guard isn't used as much for sure now because of the rule. Groundwork in judo is so weak now because of competition rules, even compared to 70s
I agree IJF/olympics crippled the groundwork
Puedes hablar sobre las técnicas que usaba mataemon tanabe ??
There are many different kind of guard. You mentioned butterfly,spider, x, Jimahava, rubber, 50-50. Some are better than others. Sometimes they work and sometimes they don't. Last week I was watching Royce Gracie use his guard against Ken Shamrock. At the end of the fight, he had to have the blood washed off his face.
what is a jimahava? sounds like a type of boba tea?
Today there are many new guards the game is evolving
@@mongolchiuud8931 😂
lol. no. you lie on the mat and use your legs to hook your opponents legs and use the leverage to sweep.
which do you think is the best?
Great video. Love your content.
Thank you Zack!
Something you might find interesting and entertaining: Korean Broadcast Service had a show called "Kool Kids on the Block" in which they took Korean celebreties and taught them a sport they didn't know already and then had them compete. The 10th season they did Judo. Here is a list of the episodes, they are in Korean with English subtitles.
m.ua-cam.com/video/liHvn-vV7m4/v-deo.html
Excellent! My Judo Sensei Yoni said “ This is Jui Jitsu!”
Indeed
@@Chadi www.streamingmartialarts.com/bio/yonezuka.php
My Judo is terrible.Not his fault.
@@Chadi www.usjf.com/hall-of-fame/yoshisada-yonezuka/
RIP
keep up the awesome work.
The image at 7:22 is probably not one of sumo wrestlers. Those look like fundoshi and not mawashi. They don't have any sagari and they don't really look like a mawashi anyway. It makes sense that at some point they just wrestled in their underwear up to some point.
Great Footage
Chadi! What is the names of the books that appear the techniques that you showed in this video?
In the description
This channel is very interesting I like it
Thank you!
Thank you for the cool videos.
Thank you
The Gracie thinks they invented Jujitsu, but they didn’t. All they did was to revive a form of effective fighting neglected by the Japanese. We do have to recognize that.
My question is what did these ancient Judokas and jujitsu people were doing for ringworm?
My opinion: the guard is older than BJJ, but Rolls Gracie was the first to adopt it as the core of BJJ.
And after him everybody in BJJ started using it this way.
The guard is the core technique of BJJ.
Rolls IMHO was the greatest of the Gracies. He took things from Sambo, Amateur Wrestling, and Judo, in developing Gracie Jiu Jitsu. He supported cross competition, which the Gracies used to do. Nowadays, many BJJ competitors will compete in overall grappling and BJJ tournaments, but not in other specific grappling style competition.
I do see some Judokas attempt to go into BJJ tournaments, but the IJF had to ruin that also.
Dont forget Tenth Planet.
Katame waza including legs around bottom (now days known as gaurd) as well as ebi (shrimp) and everything else in Jiu-Jitsu comes from the Kyoto Judo Schools.
Is there anywhere we can view the full video of the demonstrations you used for this? Would be so cool to see. Thanks for the great video!
Kyuzo Mifune on youtube ne waza
Rickson Gracie "Weight Distribution" video please!
ua-cam.com/video/PXjEmt6QNGI/v-deo.html
Does anyone create new JJ or just rediscover JJ? I think that most JJ is rediscovery
I agree! A lot of things were rediscovered or refurbished, but in the last 2 or 3 decades there are some new things that were added
The guard allegedly created by Helio Gracie could not protect him from Kimura's attacks.
Hello. Catch Wrestling calls these techniques "Legs Around Bottom."
It's also called body scissors.
@@alanguages Awesome. I got to say that I really love your channel. You do so much to find all these details. Thank You.
All the old black and white clips I have seen with catch wrestling do not show any submissions, locks and guards. Its all average wrestling with pinning and points. And all fights the classical catch wrestlers was in were all fixed and worked.
Thank you i had no idea
Actualy it is a body scissor
You are right
I would say that the only thing the Gracie's have innovated are leg locks from Ashi Garami positions, it is however important to note the distinction between "innovation" and "invention". Everything else seen in BJJ has been documented in Judo/Japanese Ju Jutsu going back centuries.
IDK I love Kron / Rickson. great jiu jitsu.. Chadi i love your video with Robert drysdale, great interview ... I want to tell you something you should look into. I am a huge BJJ guy how ever i love the samurai / ninja history. and i every now and then i see some bjj in these books. you should look up a author Antony Cummins he is a japanese history expert and he has translated many samurai / ninja manuals in english. books like Bansenshukai - the shoninki - Hagakure to name a few. you can find some / alot of jiu jitsu stuff in the days of the samurai. which is what i love reading about. you seem to like the period right after the samurais lol.. great videos. but you should look into some of the very old samurai text.. not the stephan keyheys crap. but real textx written by samurais.. you could find some realy cool judo/jiu jitsu in some of that.. great stuff man.. keep them comming.. if you could do a video on hapkido too at some point.. i love hapkido.. it was my first martial art.. cheers
Thank you do much i will look into it
O jiu-jitsu brasileiro juntou Westreliing e o Sambo com as técnicas tradicionais e foram se aperfeiçoando
The gracie conspiracy is a erroneous perspective. It's something that based on information taken out of context. How did a quote from kron suddenly become a quote from helio? Helio didn't say he invented anything. Only modified it because he didn't have strength to apply the original techniques. Jigaro kano did the same thing in judo with jujutsu. Why one is praised and other trashed is just extreme bias. The gracie master text has few newaza techniques. Most of it is self defence. There is no similarity to judo. The gracie master text is Helios work. It's his legacy. Great video as always chadi.
Thank you Joe! As a Gracie family member Kron has the responsibility to transfer accurate information, his claims as erroneous as they are they're pretty clear, but when examined next to the evidence they don't match.
@@Chadi rickson also said he had over 400 fights undefeated. In interview with helio he started laughing.
@@joeguillaume296 Rorion and Helio denied that Carlos ever trained with Maeda, and he didn't
@@Chadi I don't understand why what they said is so important. Maeda lied to cover his identity calling himself count korma. Gracie's had many enemies and closed door challenges so lying was important for protection. You wouldn't want your enemies gaining knowledge of your secrets. Fighters lie all the time. Still going on now in professional combat sports. They have to promote themselves. They have to sell fights. So not surprised Gracie's did that. It's a business. The criticism is unfair though.
@@joeguillaume296 but claiming guards and leverage are yours is mind boggling, it's not 1930 anymore
Brilliant videos
Thank you!
In 2020 I think we’ve reached the point where Judo folks spend more time obsessing over and researching the Gracies than they do Judo
It's 2020 and we have easy access to data, and examine the evidence and bjj guys believe helio invented ground grappling
Ooooooh thanks for the materials
Thank you for listening
Thank you brother for all your information but I have a question It seems like you’re saying that Brazilian didn’t really do much they just balance it out a little more .... I ask that because what i research about judo to Brazilian jujitsu seems like that
It is the case! Brazilians and north Americans took and it started it's evolution back in the early 2000s into the game we have today leg locks no gi etc but everything before the 2000s was just old judo
Chadi Talking about leg locks are you going to do a video about shoot wrestling
@@fu-bar9674 It's on my list
Chadi where can I find the original video with this footage?
The Kron footage?? Search "bjj lies" on UA-cam
@@Chadi lol no of the newaza Mifune was doing. I have a ton of his footage in my library but not that. Was hoping you could share the original source if possible. Thanks again for this.
I'm really not into comments, but I think the Gracie's are grabbing credits which should not be theirs. My Judo chief instructor has an old demo technique moves from early 40's. That time I alredy knew that before the Gracies those guard techniques already exist.
Where can you find these books?
there are links in the description
Kosen judo is all guard game and was out longer than BJJ. 1894 or somewhere in that time Kosen was being trained; 1920’s BJJ was being taught in Brazil. So the Gracie’s didn’t invent anything new they molded it their principles, concepts and Philosophy.
Hey Chadi what app/Porgram do you use to edit your videos :D
Shot cut and movie maker
@@Chadi Thank You
Retcon?
Wait......surely, the Gracies aren't claiming that they "invented" leverage??
Kron’s a great Grappler when you believe the earth is flat, it shows how much you really know lol
He has his unique views
Chadi brother, when are you going to cover Koji Komura
@@grumpyae86 soon
What I see is a newaza monster but a terrible liar.
It doesn't help said, multiple lies just in the short speech he had in the video.
Even the idea of all jiu jitsu is somehow learned from his grandfather. Oswaldo Fadda's BJJ lineage isn't even a Gracie one.
I don't think he's lying, it's what he was told his entire life
@@Chadi Well, many Gracie members are aware of what they are also saying. Rener Gracie stated, that Kimura was like 80 lbs. more than Helio. The Gracies are aware, that Fadda's lineage is NOT from Helio. His students did fight the Gracie students afterall. Yet, Kron still said ALL jiu jitsu is somehow learned from his grandfather.
@@alanguages I see your point! this video discusses the claims and examine the evidence, what Kron or Rener believe is for them the evidence is all out there.
@Chadi I think you should make a video in the future about Japanese jiujitsu and tag it to the gracies if they have social media accounts. I saw one style of jiujitsu with beautiful striking and throws.
Thank you for exposing the Gracie's propaganda👍
Oh man i saw the ilustrations but they dont have a focuse in the closed guard. When Kron Say that Helio invented the closed guard he meant he invented the game in the closed guard, sweeps and passes. Closed guard is still a prohibited move in judo because it is like stalling but in bjj we know that is not true.
No! Oda came up with passes and pulling, and even de la Riva back in the 1910s and 1920s, there's no evidence before and many other things.
ua-cam.com/video/045hsVNFYkI/v-deo.html
@@Chadi Yeah i've seen this video, it was one of my friend Maumau, Maurício. Read back when i said the game in closed guard. Listen, i'm Fadda lineage student i would have all reasons to hate Helio but i recognize what he did. The bjj how you know today born in a single move how we know as closed guard in judo dojime (which is prohibited) the development to unlock or progress in this position changed theorecally the dynamics of sport. Until today a lot of people strugle to understand what Helio created even me but i see now. About De la riva, well there is a lot of old footage even in elder bjj competition claiming the guard but the majority them lack some elememts they only show the De la riva hook which doesnt mean to be a guard.
@@Chadi Did you understand what i meant to say?
Great fighters but a very very scratchy family (have you seen the ufc 1 conspiracy)
Search for “Gracie’s fooled everyone” on UA-cam I believe it will be a great followup video
The Gracies of course had an advantage it was their event but Bill Wallace was senile.
KP LLC he was brutal and I understand where he is comming from. Also if you look at Helio vs kimura the Rufino Dos Santos ordeal and you realize that they sent Renzo because of their massive ego to destroy sakuraba. You really realize that as a family the Gracie’s are a bounch of (insert word here!)
@@jcabanyes_ The Gracies are not great people with a nice history but I don't need Bill Wallace to lie. Everyone knows the first few UFC's were a commercial for Gracie, they made the event. Just like when Guy Mezger beat the hell out of Sakuraba at the Pride GP 2000 and they called it a draw. Sometimes it is nice to have the promotion behind you.
Without rewatching the video the two fallacies that stick out most were, Bill said that Royce was scared of the Sumo wrestler and that the Sumo did not lose because they stopped the match. Royce fought the greatest Sumo ever Akibono and beat him. The wannabe sumo wrestler in UFC 1 got destroyed in seconds and started crying. I guess Bill wanted it to continue to see if they could kill him. He said there were no wrestlers but Ken Shamrock is an amatuer and submission wrestler.
Yes i saw it! Wish was judokas at UFC 1
@@Chadi Remco Pardoel in UFC 2 Christophe Leininger UFC 3
In this same interview Kron claims his grandfather was the first to specialize in everything. Think about it. It would be a stretch to claim he mastered everything. But by definition you cant specialize in everything.
Agreed!
This poor fool probably believes that his family "invented" all those moves and techniques. Miyake and Tani sure had a lot of nerve, publishing a book on Gracie's inventions four years before he was born. The links to the Game Of Jujitsu and Textbook of Jujitsu are great ! ! Is there a similar link to my bible, My Method Of Judo ? My surviving copy is badly damaged from Hurricane Katrina.
It is probable
I'm surprised Kron Gracie hasn't claimed his family created the whole universe.
What a muppet.
I use all of these techniques the basics are my bread and butter.
Without the basics there's nothing
BJJ Brown Belt with previous experience in Japanese Ju Jitsu and some Judo here and gotta day Kron must’ve been smoking some strong stuff to be that deluded with his statements in the video. At least at a fundamental level all the techniques in BJJ are directly from Ju Jitsu and Judo with slight variations made in some instances. Yes a lot of new techniques these days exist but that goes with development in any martial art or sport over time. Personally I’d be in favour of stripping the Brazilian part of the name ‘Brazilian Jiu Jitsu’ and just call it Jiu Jitsu. The art comes from Japan first and foremost and is now wildly practised by practitioners of all races and nationalities all of which are making developments in the art. Hope that made some logical sense what I wrote haha but those are just my views. Thank you for shining more truth of the history of the family of arts of Ju Jitsu, Judo and Jiu Jitsu as there are too many false truths out there being preached that people need to be more aware of. Keep up the amazing content Chadi! 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
Thank you for sharing Jake
Jake Trindall BJJ , you have to remove your "B" from your profile name first.
Gracies saying they created Jiut Jitsu, nothing new
I love these vídeos. And these lies put on the floor.
I can’t get over how many people don’t do their research on these guys they even literally use the story of being small and by using good technique you can beat a larger opponent. Quite literally kanos story. They use all the same ne waza movements didn’t create anything yet people think they made this whole grappling system. Lol
you're a genius
Thank you!
Kron is wrong, but regardless for argument sake, the guard of ancient japan does not compare to shit to the guard of today. It is evident by how many stories of Rickson destroying the best Judoka of their time when he came to japan to challenge Rickson. And look at the evolution chain of Grappling today, Japanese grapplers are nothing compared to those who actively train and try to deveolope their guard and style for BJJ. Look at ADCC, good example on how it pits styles against each other. Who are usually on top? Not Karl style of 'catch' or 'judo' or 'wrestling' but Jiu Jitsu people. Who adapted to the rule set that is geared towards wrestling/take down. BJJ guys adapt quite easily to any rule set in grappling that involves submission.
And lets look at the example on 'basics' you metioned, @5:15, the basic armbar from guard. Any trained person, in other arts as well, can see the problem with this. Sure its basics and needed but why not chain it to other moves that has higher percentage? Also the finish isnt good too, feet position, knee structor, everything about this is wrong to control and finish it properly. Any ancient judo books will not go into detail about this. Heck in my area theres a judo legend who created some of the best judo people in the area (and top in the country), but when it comes to basic grappling and finishes, its too flashy (like in judo books and instructionals) and not very good for those who has tech in grappling arts (evident because i tapped them and they invited me to go train with them, provenional team). Why the biggest and best guys usually are winners and smaller judoka people are afraid of said big guys. BJJ like Kron said is used for small people to make them dangerous in guard or any positions.
Like i said the 'ancient' scrolls will not help you or anyone get better at grappling. They lack the fine details that is needed to win in at a gym or even a local tournament. Sure history is great, but why not give credit where its due to the smaller people who train everyday and sharpen those styles that was either passed down or developed independently on the mats? I have made my own moves on the mats then when i researched it, it was already been founded (some moves has yet to be discovered by others). And its not to toot my own horn, but rather i can use their moves to sharpen or see where i lack. Thats the beauty of BJJ, its easy to see your style you do that someone else does and see the little improvements that can be done to make one's game better. As for the ancient scrolls, it wont give you mystical power, it wont make you better at the gym, and it wont make your dick bigger, but rather it just makes your brain gather more info that is useless when you are training in a sparing match. Would you remember some outdated 400 year old scroll that lacks details taht is needed? Or would you rather have tech that is taught that has to be battle tested and tweeked during mat times? Also that north south choke takes a long time to master, and when i say master i mean tapping out purple belts on the regular on the mats.
Well in judo too many techniques invented during the sparing including the bjj guard by the way but unfortunatly because judo choose the wrong path by accepting sport rules competition and bjj will surfer the same problem . For me bjj sport is becoming less selfdefence oriented ( by the way the grappler Who are in the top now not bjj and not judoka . The wrestler Who are in the top and if you look mma bjj is closing his effectiveness)
Thank you for this comment! But i think you missed the point, it is to simply find the oldest evidence of the guard, we know today's guard is better, Kron's claims were so erroneous they had to be addressed.
The sports rules dictate where the skill is developed, that said the throwing skill of judo has evolved by leap and bounds, comparing a Kosen judoka and average IJF Judika the kosen judoka have advantage if they fight in ground only rules , if the IJF rules favor ground fighting, there wouldn't be room for BJJ. Wouldn't you agree?
@@chrischiang1512 Rules are there yes. But as past 2-3 decades, BJJ as a grappling art surpassed many others, in terms of tech and innovation. Heck even bjj has 'rules' but those who trains it dont really care for the rule set set by certain org. I dont adhere to IBJJF, so i train bjj my way and style. Which i have made new moves styles and progression in the past 8 years. Heck since it has given me freedom to do certain moves, im able to change it well with takedowns. I even took down a young Judo stud who was gearing for the olymics here, with a single leg. Ok sure i am using me as an example, which is fine and dandy. But another Judo guy, who came to my gym (competed in the 2008 Beijing Olympics) destroyed a few purple belts in a few seconds WITH GROUND GAME, no judo or stand up. Arm bar'd them in 10-20 seconds. Clearly his lifetime of grappling made him apt to 'NeWaza' or sparring. But then he kept being my student for BJJ and i taught him a lot. Learn so much he was able to tap me after 2 years. His foundation of Judo is outstanding and the 'rules' of Judo didnt apply since he came in to improve on an already great grappling game.
There is a reason why people can transition from Gi to No Gi quite easily in BJJ. Many BJJ world champs said they train in the gi a lot and it even helps them in No Gi. No Gi can be seen as 'real world' fighting. Sure there are issues with NO-GI and gracie Bullshit, but truth be told, those people who train BJJ can understand and adapt quite easily to other styles and systems.
THe rules are there to keep people in check, which makes them less prone to injury. No gym for BJJ would even dare follow IBJJF to a T.
Now as for Judo not innovating, ground game due to rule set. Sure that can be seen, but its the gyms that adhere to those rules sets, not the org. If a sport becomes an olympic game, then their progression goes out the window. Same with TKD, yet whose fault is that? Why BJJ is able to flourish, people train in it because its enjoyable, the tech learned from it is appicable to all body types and styles, and can be done from people of any game and income level. This is where judo is failing, innovation and adpation to other arts or styles. Judo is known as 'stand up' but the old judo can be seen as everyting 'ground and takedown.' Yet today its not so much. While BJJ is innovating 'to the rule set' but are looking beyond it. Once there is money in BJJ competition, there will be more people training and competing for cash prizes. MMA is the next step for BJJ people, but risk reward isnt worth it to transition for many people, who spent their entire lives training BJJ as a grappling art.
Now can this be said about Judo, Sambo, Catch and other styles? When i see the superstars or instructors today who teaches those are art huge dudes who are winners. I want to see little guys who uses leverage, angles and scrambles to win rather than power and control.
@@Chadi Kron is an idiot. He still thinks his gramps created BJJ and still thinks his lineage is under Kano, which its not looking at the historical record. Helio, George and Carlos Sr were thugs and exploited their mythos to gain money fame and power. Also i wouldnt take Kron for his word, flat-earther. Sure one of the best BJJ ever, top 100 easily, but outside the mats.. Well hes full of shit.
Peace ✌️
🤙🏻
Sometimes people rediscover or reinvent thing's I was raised in a boxing dominant community I believe it's possible lol 🙂🙃🙂🙃🙂
Many old pre-war Judo film footage before WW2 on youtube showing Japanese Judoka doing collar chokes from the guard And applied exactly as he claimed Helio supposedly invented it. I know he's repeating what his family taught him but with a short youtube search he can educate himself & be free from propoganda.
The graices invented ever thang.
Gracie r good jiu jitsu practitioners but they are better business men.
Here's the thing, everything has already been done; twice.
I dont think the allure behind the gracie's is that they invented the guard or ground techniques (regardless of their claims), rather they sharpened it more so than any other culture or technique base before them. As i brown belt I have no problem saying jiu jitsu is very close to judo in many aspects, historically they come from the same branch and judo does many things better than modern jiu jitsu but I also think its time for judoka's to get off their historical high horse of; "pfff we did that first, we're better."
no one said we're better, that's not the argument, the claims made by Kron were so erroneous they had to be addressed, a lot of people believe him
@@Chadi I get the notion/feeling that many judoka have the feeling of superiority because of "we did it first" mentality or the youre not a *real* martial artist mindset.
Secondly i think the opinions of Kron are irrelevant even if people believe him, the effectiveness of the technique is the only thing that should matter at the end of the day and if judokas really have the proper techniques Kron's opinion means nothing as all you have to do show how much better a judoka can do it.
I mean the greeks were heel hooking each other left and right back in the day and Pankration or luta livre or catch may have a better entry system to the legs, but whatever study and apply the technique regardless of what its called and who developed it.
As thankful as I am about the Gracies spreading BJJ to the rest of the world,the dont know much about the history of their own art
Exactly
@@Chadi As a BJJ Academy owner and someone that makes a living off of BJJ, I have to be thankful that the art they made famous reached me here in Sunny South Africa.I reached purple belt level under Matt Thornton (Machado Jiu Jitsu) and then up to black belt under Roberto Atalla (Gracie Lineage). However doing much research and following channels like yours I realized that grappling has a very long history and much that we do today as new has been around for a long time.Yes I do think that today's BJJ guys (especially guys like John Dannaher) have come up with not better but more efficient ways of doing things but the Gracies shouldn't be given all the glory as to the inventers of all things Jiu Jitsu.I would be happy if you took a look at my channel and gave feedback as to the techniques I show.
They want to erase all original history of jiu jitsu. So, I don't prefer them.
O teu avô naõ inventou nada inventou historias nada mais ja estava tudo inventado ele simplesmente foi rei na terra dos cegos
To all the haters, yes Kron is a little bit indoctrinated but so is most of the world in one way or another. Just think on this though. If not for the Gracies we would all still be doing kung fu or karate katas. They brought judo groundwork back from the dead. They were the ones who brought back realistic fighting and gave the world the UFC. Now wrestling and grappling are also in the mix. From this new wave came Pride and others. I started BJJ and now also am a big fan of judo. I used to be a kung fu person in my black pajamas thinking I was a ninja. Thank you the Gracies for opening my eyes.
We're not hating, can't we have a healthy disagreement without being called a hater???
@@Chadi yes we can, I've seen your comments and they are fair, unfortunately not everyone is like you.
Helio did not reinvent gyaku juji jime, it was always done “Helios” way. That shit drives me crazy. Helio was way bigger than kano or mifune, but ya sure, he invented leverage...I love bjj but damn the Gracie’s are horrible historians. And I will say, I guess bjj may be credited with prioritizing fighting from guard, but of course they didn’t invent it
If the pin existed in BJJ, many won't play guard anymore
Chadi and if you score a nice takedown/throw, you can bypass guard altogether 😏
@@jedijudoka indeed!
Zack , if there is a GFteam in your area, train with them, they are non Gracie Lineage, no Gracie pictures at the Gym ✌️
“The guard” is hardly a uniquely jiu jitsu/MMA/Asian invention.
I’m no fighter but I remember instinctly doing that in at least one fight I had in the 7th grade in the 60s.
I’m sure wrestlers did that but I was thoroughly unaware of wrestling techniques!
I remember kicking him in the side of his head with my shoed foot!
I fucked him up that way.
He got up and quit!
The Brazilian invented the guard??? That's like saying Africans invented electricity because my grandfather turned on a light switch.