Excluding the fetishes, there's an odd melancholy feeling looking at DA artists that used to exclusively draw Sonic related stuff like fancharacters or non-fetish fanart. There's either an emptiness when their last post was nearly ten years ago and you wonder what they're up to now or there's a warm feeling when they've become good artists after developing over the years and are now professionals. It's like their profiles are timelines of how they've matured as their lives went on.
This video is filled with errors, lack of sourcing and unreasonable claims. Give this post a read www.reddit.com/r/SonicTheHedgehog/comments/d8uyic/knowledgehubs_lies_and_blatant_misinformation
True actually I beat the 3DS version in an 1-2 hours hell I didn't even reach my house the day my parents bought it for me before I finish the game on my 3DS. That's how short the game is xD and for the console version I literally beat it the night I bought and downloaded it xD.
Is there a, "Sonic has had a rocky transition into the 3d world," or a, "The Sonic series has had many ups and downs, mostly downs," and parts where he makes fun of 06 and a few bad moments from the other games and tries to make it look as if the whole series centers around it?
Sonic is.more good game bad gaood game bad game and few of the sonic games are truly great there just good However least you know the sound track will me good
"Sonic Mania wasn't about nostalgia" its literal first trailer talked about "going back to the start". it was made for Sonic's 25th anniversary. it had many references to old games (from obscure games like Sonic the Fighters and more known games like Sonic 3) and like, only 1 or 2 to the modern games (and even then, they were from the 2d ones like the advance series). you yourself said it was about REINVENTING the classic games. it catered specifically for those who loved the classic games. i disagree with many things on this video, but you don't have to take me seriously anyways my pfp is a dead giveaway
As a kid who played the original 3 games in a Sonic mega drive collection for the DS, and somewhat the PS4 as well, Sonic Mania is anything but nostalgia, it's just a game that TRYS to be nostalgia, but doesn't click with me at all. It's effectively a huge cellection of reused assets(even if that's what it's trying to be) and a story that I can't even put close to the previous ones when it came to love and passion, Sonic 1's Scrap Brain and Final Zone filled you with determination to finally take down Eggman, Sonic 2 has him sent to the Death Egg to finally put Eggman to his place once again, and Tails shows friendship by saving Sonic at the last moment, in Sonic 3 we spent all the time making sure the Death Egg doesn't re-launch and once it does we reach into space to finish it off, with Doomsday zone being one of the most chaotic and adrenaline inducing moments in all of Sonic history. Sonic Mania, is about this weird crystal(I know it's called the Phantom Ruby, but I didn't give a fuck about what it was when I first played it) that can...take sonic to other stages...oh yeah and those Egg Robots turned into...Hard Boiled Heavies apparently...and we have to stop them...for whatever reason...as if EVERYTHING Eggman does just has to be evil am I right. Yeah, the story was so shit I didn't care about it, and so didn't have any feelings towards the gameplay because its basically just Green Hill, Chemical Plant, etc. Sonic Mania is overrated in my opinion and Plus even more so.
@@autistichades5552 Yeah, this is the problem I also have with the intro to Mania. It feels like a waste of an animated segment, since it doesn't hype up or tell us what's going on at all. At least Sonic and Knuckles opening bit showed the Death Egg, which is SOMETHING at least a tiny bit plot related. Mania lacks a coherent story, maybe because the people who made the game only made re-makes before and never needed to do a full fledged story or maybe the ties to Forces put down what could have been. Then again, there are plenty of people who think Sonic games should be a mindless experience with no story or plot elements at all, even though Sonic games have always been about the drive to find out what's going to happen next, at least pre-Colours games did that.
@@YujiUedaFan Well yes, but I enjoy Colours for its own merits. This is meant to be a nod back to the Classic era, and I get none of that nostalgia at all, hell I'd say Sonic Generations did it better. I feel they could've just made a Sonic game in the Genesis style, rather than just trying to fill everything to the brim with reused zones, features, badniks, etc. I also don't like how this guy believes that Sonic CD was the best game and Sonic 3 the worst. I know it's his opinion but true Sonic fans(or just people who actually invest their time into the game and not just play it for 15 minutes and call it a day) like me would have the polar opposite opinion to him.
@@autistichades5552 My issue with Generations is I really don't like the boost formula plus again it lacks a decent story and the game is way too short. In the end you're paying for the mods instead of the game itself. But I do get what you're saying, either go all out with reused levels or use none at all.
I have to ask about Mania: Where did you get the fact that Sonic Mania has sold poorly? SEGA has been intentionally vague about Sonic Mania's sales numbers, from what I recall. It had enough success to have additional content a year later, so I can't imagine it was a failure.
It was painfully mediocre, following the footsteps of many other 'road trip, cartoon character in the real world with a man who screams when they first see them' movies. Second one was good, human stuff was garbage though.
@@enablednonsense9853 "I wanted the Sonic movie to be about SERIOUS THINGS!!! Like a GROWN MAN in a FLYING ROBOT HEAD dropping bombs on an anthropomorphic hedgehog!! How DARE THEY make a movie for kids dumb fun for the whole family??? They basically SHOT MY DOG in front of me."
@@mikester8171 with how he's talking he seems like a mario fanboy he's trashing sonic's genesis games but praises mario 1,2,3 and world wich are 99% walking simulators (says someone who bought and enjoys mario on the switch)
@@mikester8171 Indeed tbh as a Sonic fan I was honestly just trying to not be, well, you know. Consider it code for "let's not get too angry at him guys". Basically I'm just being nice lol.
Okay I’m gonna be honest here, this video feels more of just a biased video especially with not knowing the exact information such as the sales of mania and forces or even who made them. Not to mention stating about how sonic R passes off as a fact rather than a opinion from how I viewed it. You also failed to acknowledge the core gameplay of the adventure games when it comes to exploration and replay-ability. It would’ve been better to at least to give out constructive criticism to specifically tell what they could improve on. Such as hire more developers, or don’t rush the game (which we did see them delaying their games such as mania and TSR so far)
Felipe Jaquez I’m just stating how he fails to depict the certain aspects of gameplay for the games he said were inaccurate. He should’ve at leasts used information from the game critique at leasts of the main basis of the gameplay itself
I would’nt say sonic was a mediocre mascot back then. That’s the definition of the”it’s not Nintendo so it sucks”. He had, and still does have more personality than Mario ever will. The Mario character’s and games are amazing but Sonic doesn’t get him enough credit.
While I agree with most of the video, how is Sonic 3 a step back from Sonic CD, but you go on to praise Sonic Mania? Sonic Mania shares so many qualities with Sonic 3 & Knuckles over Sonic CD. Also, you claimed that Sonic Forces sold only 100,000 copies? Where are your sources? A quick search will show that the true number (at least for first week sales) was closer to 234,000. While it's embarrassingly low, just exaggerating isn't helping you sound any more credible.
@@lucascurio8345 I played the game for the first time recently and I would say it's pretty good, I wasn't even alive when Adventure came out so you can't really say it's nostalgia
I'd be fine with this video as an opinion piece but he states his opinion as fact backed up by numbers and real world events that he never gives proper context to.
is this a historical video? if so, whats with these false claims of sonic being a bad mascot? sega was trampling nintendo in the video game market, stirring up big competition (cause sonic is a *great* mascot). is this a review of sonic games? if so, why are you skipping over major games in the franchise? you mightve loved the boost formula (a formula rewarding of top-speed) in unleashed, colors and generations, yet theyre completely ignored for... sonic r?! im not seeing the overall purpose of this video.
juneru The Super Nintendo came out in 1990, a year before Sonic. The Genesis was not doing well in America before he came around, and the Master System was almost non-existent in America at the time. The markets that Sega were doing well in (notably Europe) were areas that Nintendo didn't do particularly well in for years. Tl;dr, In America at least, it was Nintendo curb-stomping Sega pre-Sonic. Your second point's still good though.
certainly explains why sonic is still quite well known in europe (well at least in my area of england) i still see kids in sonic shirts from time to time despite the series just being filled with dad jokes now.
5:20 I am sorry, but how is the original super mario bros more accessible then sonic 3? And how is sonic 3 a step back? It has multiple characters, better level design, super sonic. I really dont see how sonic cd is better then sonic 3 or 2 to be honest.
Yes because in this age of Mania, Team Sonic Racing, the IDW series, and entire shots in a big budget Paramount film being completely reworked, Sonic is dead. Man, I never realized how much of an asshole I must have sounded like saying that I hate 2D Mario, but this is even worse since you're presenting all this as objective fact. No fun allowed!
@@Trashboat4444 Yup. To me they're all so samey and generic. Even the weirdest one, World, still has those sluggish, slippery controls with no easing on acceleration. You're jogging and then you break into a full on sprint instantly, a same issue Sonic Forces is so frequently raked over the coals for.
@@aortaplatinum I dislike 2D mario as well, but i LOVE 3D mario games, i feel like 2D mario games don't even try to be different from the first four ones, essentially milking it more than mania did with the first four games.
“Sonic CD levels are streamlined” wtf no they aren’t. Wacky work bench where you bounce everywhere. springs everywhere. The levels felt more like a labyrinth. Trying to go from past to future is annoying since you gotta have a good idea on how the level is designed to be able to get the right amount of momentum to time travel. In order to get the best ending, you either need to keep 50 rings at the end of the level (easier said then done especially for a first time player) or go to the past and find the one machine located somewhere in the level. The one with the streamlined levels was sonic 2.
@@Alby_Channel Oh yeah the soundtrack is phenomenal. Both US and especially the Japanese/UK version. I appreciate the levels encouraging exploration, but man it gets horrendous sometimes.
@@tjlnintendo Yeah the soundtrack is pretty solid. Oh sorry I meant to say I like the art style of the levels not the level design. Wacky Workbench is atrocious because of that "spring electrical floor"(?). I spent a lot of time just figuring out what to do
He said it as a fact. He also said that literally nobody cares about the cutscenes in Sonic Adventure 2. Which is not an opinion nor true. And he said that Adventure 1 has "RPG" elements. I've played this game many times, and I still cannot find what elements he claimed this game have. This guy is misleading and have no idea what he's talking about.
@@QwerpOS undertale five nights at Freddys mincraft and other big indie games like that are rare 99% of Indies fail or barely break even mania made its money back if it didn't why pump out a rerelease of a failed game with added content games dont have to break sales records to be a success
Christ this video hurts to watch, especially that first minute or two. Maybe that's what you were going for? I dunno, but it ain't jiving with me or my eyes.
It's the whole "deep fried" meme category, where you intentionally get as many ugly graphics as you can, then boost saturation and throw ten filters on it so it looks like it was melted in a microwave. This is supposed to target the "so-bad-it's-good" boundary but normally just ends up being cringey. Anyways I've given up on watching this channel for the exact thing you mentioned, but I find his topics mildly interesting so I just tab away and listen to him while browsing some other text based medium.
@@ambientcyan thats still weird to me, why spend so much time adding ugly effects to make a video "ironically" appealing? itd save so much more time making a video if it didnt have those effects.
Anyone else really liked Sonic Rush? I loved playing it on my old DS Edit: I also really enjoyed Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood. It was a good rpg as a kid.
Rush is good Rush Adventure not so much. I have a soft spot for The Dark Brotherhood. I also kind of love Sonic R but that's just because i found it fun as a kid.
@@YoshifreakZX To much grinding. I hated getting stuff over and over. It was not fun to replay levels over and over to make the ships and stuff. It's just that part that kills me.
@George Bell I haven't played 3 yet so idk but all the mario games on gba were ports which automatically sets them behind actual new games made for the platform
The sonic fan base in general. 90s: Children trying to be RAD AS FUCK! 2000s: People trying to justify having a Dreamcast. 2010s: THIS IS SHIT! LOL! Modern Day: FURRSONAS “MEOW!”
Honestly, I'd have to disagree with parts of this, especially the parts about Adventure. From what I've heard, the Adventure games were played by people in and out of the Sonic fandom when first released. Sure, there were conflicting opinions about the gameplay and plots, but people enjoyed them overall. I'm someone who doesn't particularly like the first Adventure at all, but to disregard just how well-received it was at the time is slightly unfair.
@@LucasMBoysOurRoy I don't even think this dude did any research that's close to surface level since he managed to lie about the sales figures. He says Mania didn't sell well, yet there's an article from Nintendolife that you can quickly find on Google that states how Mania sold over 1 million worldwide and thus is a commercial success. This isn't even getting into how Heroes, Shadow, 06, Secret Rings, Unleashed, Colors and Generations were all commercial successes, yet he chose to ignore all that. This slimy scumbag was intentionally trying to make the Sonic series look bad with this video. It's pathetic.
Lucas M it’s one of those generic "haha sonic badd, he had rough time,3D sonic games succ haha" type of videos. It’s so overdone,stupid and unoriginal.
God-- Adventure Fans has it rough... It's like saying ''MARIO 64 SUCKS, BECAUSE IT RUINED MARIO''. I get it Mario 64 revolutionize 3D, but you know what game also revolutionize 3D but gets treated with less respect? SA1.
I've never heard somebody say that CD was better than 3 & Knuckles. ...and then say that Sonic R was the best game in the franchise... What are you smoking and where can I get it?
I'm pretty sure he was smoking some kind of herb from a game I don't know that makes you go fast and obsess with speed while being repelled by everything else.
@@cameron6262 Lol i've been playing sonic since the original on the genesis. I've seen him go from glory to rock bottom. I OWN sonic mania. The game was good, but dont pretend it was a mega super seller, other wise we'd see sonic mania 2. Pull your head out of sonic's butt. Your just a fanboy that refuses to grow up. And for the record, the only great sonic games were sonic 2 (genesis) and Sonic cd (Sega cd). ALL the other sonic games were cash grabs. Now go back to playing sonic forces, little one.
@@ricky-sanchez Wow, you really need to learn grammar and spelling... "You're" and "Otherwise". Also a "Sonic Mania 2" not being in the pipeline isn't a "sign" of success or not.... lmao. Of course you wouldn't understand that because you're just a kid. Finish school.
the word "are" in that statement implies fact , so it is the wrong way to express an opinion . the right way would to put "i think" or "I believe" at the beginning
@@mbdg6810 oh I'm sorry. I thought you were being passive agressive to the OP like you were saying he was stupid for interpreting knowledge hub's words as factual statements. Sry about that
This was in my reccomended videos for a long time. I finally watched it, and hey guess what it's exactly what I expected. My comment will be very long and pissy so be warned. You gloss over every game you talk about, oversimplifying your view of them. For example, Sonic 3. You treated that game with such little respect that it honestly made me upset. Your entire analysis was 7 words: "More roadblocks, water levels, iffy level design." Let's neglect to mention the unique yet balanced characters, the much improved special stages, the shields that give Sonic an extra ability, the less dickish hazard placement. Or even the faults, like how some levels drag way too long and can feel repetitive, the midbosses being filler most of the time, I could go on. My point is that you didn't try. The old Sonic games were built with an arcade mindset. There was no time attack because as you said, the expectation was that players would replay *all* the levels over and over to get better at them. This sort of design is seen as outdated nowadays but you have to consider the time period (1991-1992). Besides, Sonic CD and 3 added a save function due to their potential length. I also feel that you need to look past the "speed" part and try to find other merits, like the many secrets and alternate paths hidden in the levels, rewarding both exploration and good gameplay. You failed to mention Sonic Heroes and Shadow the Hedgehog, both of which I think would've contributed to your overall point. They are mainline games, especially Shadow. Sonic R is not as bad as everyone says it is, but I think the issue with calling it the "best" Sonic game is that it lacks substance to make it last. You can easily 100% the game in under an hour, and there's only 5 tracks. Sure there's a time attack, but you'll eventually get sick of just going fast. I like finding the secrets in the Grand Prix, but the speed at which you can get them all ultimately harms the game, as the racing by itself becomes a shallow experience. And good lord, cut down on the smug snark. Everybody does it, it's super obnoxious and the reason why I avoided this video for so long. I knew it would be in there. You've probably heard this from several other people, but this felt really half-assed and not much of an analysis, a review, or even really a look at these games. My whining is done now.
You could say the same as the inverse "Sonic fan gushes over the story of SA1 and 2 #133". idk maybe cause I'm more on the middle of this whole "Was sonic ever good?!" nonsense I find both sides to be pretty biased for different reasons. The truth is, Sonic does a lot right and a lot wrong at the same time...
Ay bruh, mind giving this video a redo? Seriously this seems more opinionated, hypocritical of said opinions and, well, bloated with misinformation. I've been binging your more recent stuff and love how organized, engaging, and objective as possible. When I take a look at this it just feels genuinely messy. And just a tad mean spirited to a series I myself love. What I'm getting at is, can you give Sonic a second shot?
I think the reason this is probably his worst video is because he assumes no one cares or has thought deeply about sonic in over 20 years. But little does he know people care a lot about this series and we have been talking about what makes these games good or bad for years.
sounded so negative this felt you were like only showing your tastes of not liking much at all of sonic anytime until mania but that game also had similar positives to his first couple of games, you praised mania while those games shared a lot similarities to the older tittles i just don't understand so you're he was always bad until he pandered to the least tolerable kind of sonic for you because it then would sound like a lot of the videos was just your taste ? if you loved sonic r i don't understand why didn't you try talk about sonic riders.sonic team racing, sega all stars racing, and sonic rivals to compare sonic r and see if it improved and or see what tastes they can add to the basis of sonic r just being sonic racing. just recommending stuff well for even another video since you said you played and watched basically everything sonic related or well it made it seem like you did. personally my favorite the sonic rush gameplay was the best style of gameplay, it was imo the best in sonic colors ds and sonic unleashed for the wii/ps2 sonic fan, personally sorry if i sound upset by any chance anywhere lmao
this video aged well specifically the "sonic movie will ruin the brand" and "sonic is a dead franchise also this video is kinda not great the thing about sonic stories being more serious and not being a silent protagonist is stupid the times they tried making a less serious story guess what it fucking sucked and is genuinely the worst story in any game ive played
I often miss people remembering Sonic Advance 1&2 on GBA. It was for me the best sonic games. The game play was fast and fluid, which the originals promised but never kept and the difficulty was not too high not too low. Unfortunately too few know those titles
Sonic Franchise: Mania, Team Sonic Racing, the new IDW comic and recent animation endeavors Epic YT essay men: Sonic Franchise: a bad game from 13 years ago Epic YT essay men: SONIC IS DEAD
It is complicated. Everyone can agree that Sega screw this franchise due to lack of sense of the direction. After first Golden Age 91-94 (Sonic1-3, CD and SatAM) when cooperation between Sega CS and STI was good, STI (who made Sonic 2-3) was closed for stupid reason (and also basically end possibility of popular American Timeline becoming canon). Then we have first Sonic Dark Age 95-00, when Sega unsuccessfully try force Sonic into handhelds and 3D with many random teams developing games. Even if newly formed Sonic Team (CS3/AM8) made Adventure in 98, thing is that it was released on unpopular Dreamcast, so in fact majority of the fans didn't play it until 2003 Director's Cut. It is why for many people Dark Age of franchise end with Sonic Advance, what still was huge step back, what is why not many people remember those games. And popular Adventure 2 developed by Sonic Team USA (overlapping with also popular Sonix X anime) what reignited interest in the franchise, even if classic fanboy complain about gameplay (what is hypocritical considering they lack of interest in Advance games). Anyway both lines exist until Sega decided to close American studio, again (what again was one who made successful Sonic games). It lead to disaster of Shadow the Hedgehog, when they attempt to stay relevant (aka not be closed) failed. Point is that newly reformed GE1 (Sonic Team 4.0) was composed mostly from new people and those who did know what they were doing lack of creative control. It leas to Second Dark Age 04-07 what was definitely less severe as still many good games (Riders and Rush) come out, but whole thing lack consistency with many high profile flops like Sonic 06. But to me honest on the end they did start making more consistent good games like Unleased and Riders 2. It is when they were restructured again (CS2 aka Sonic Team 5.0), but this time it was a good thing as proper people get proper tools to work on proper sonic games. It leas do series of constantly good games like Colors and generations. Also even is Sonic 4 was a failure, it still was first attempt to reignite classic series. Sadly some good spin off franchises suffered like sad end of Riders series. What bad we can say about Lost Word it was experimental and attempt to both resurrect Extreme and cash on popularity of Mario Galaxy. But it failed. Sadly Sega duck up again and this time... well, they take Sonic from Sonic Team and give it to some shitty developers in Boom series, leading to third Dark Age of Sonic 2014 up to today. For reminder Mania wasn't developed by Sega and Forces was made half decade later, so most people from original team moved long ago. We shouldn't blame the creators here.
@@TheRezro Tbh I didn't like Sonic Forces but all the stuff being released around it (albeit none of it by Sonic Team) has been pretty great. It doesn't help that mainline games have been coming out much slower than they used to, with the two recent ones having tons of issues. Here's to hoping the next title is better or we get a Mania sequel
I love it when people who never really "got" classic Sonic try to analyze it in depth. Not everything has to be for everyone, so just as many people out there will likely never enjoy playing one of my personal GOAT (Dark Souls, a game which reeeealy isn't for everyone), or how I never really "got" Mario myself and think it's way too overrated, many people never enjoyed and never will enjoy classic Sonic, it's just not for you, but it doesn't meant "it was never good", you just never liked it, and that's fine.
I totally thought everyone was gonna hate the sonic movie but the completely unexpected happened. The creators listened to fan criticism and the movie came out actually good.
Haha yeah “sonic bad Mario good sonic has had a rough time over the years yadda yadda” we’ve already done this song and dance a million times. Half of the people still beating the sonic fan base and sonic himself don’t even care about his games or what happens, they just like to shit on sonic because it makes them feel good. I know sonic isn’t a perfect franchise but seriously c’mon these videos are all the same and have the same points it’s getting annoying, but I guess my point is devalued because I’m a “sonic fan” and the vocal minority of this fan base gets to speak for millions of regular people.
Also I hate the typical "Sonic's friends = bad, Solo Sonic = good" mentality, as well as hypocrites that hate 3 and Knuckles, yet love Mania which is just Sonic 3 and Knuckles again with less levels.
Ueda Yuuji Fan totally agree, I think it stems from the mass criticism of sonic adventure and sonic heroes, which I can understand but that doesn’t mean that playable characters besides sonic don’t work. Tails and knuckles are prime examples of the sonic and friends mini formula could work, tails being about Sonics speed and being able to fly, meaning you can skip harder paths or find some extra monitors or capsules depending on the game, and knuckles being a bit slower but able to glide and have different paths, and while I do think knuckles radar gimmick could work, I would love to see him in a speed stage.
@@hornie_pie_7861 Also, Sonic Adventure got buggier with each port. I played the Steam version a few days ago and it's WAY buggier than the GC version. I'm not a fan of Heroes on the other hand, since for me it's the start of Sonic's decline; promoting a short story with little stakes that matter.
Ueda Yuuji Fan I agree, I’m not saying they don’t deserve the criticism they get. Sonic heroes is far from a great game, and SA1 on anything but GCN and Xbox are basically unplayable. People just gave up to soon on the playable characters thing, like after heroes it was basically just sonic and sonic only (not counting the spinoffs like riders and black night).
@@hornie_pie_7861 Picked up Heroes off my shelf, played it, soundtracks top tier, game is fucking trash. Bad slippery controls and character which for a game about speed is garbage. Allies keep shouting the same words over and over *and if i hear tails shout 'wee' one more timr i swear to fuck'* Alternate paths are cool but ultimately worthless 80% of the time. And the bugs, my god. And I was trying REALLY hard to like it.
12:40 the founder or a former employee of Travelers Tales has a UA-cam channel called GameHut i think, where he shows early prototypes and coding secrets of retro games he worked on (not only Sonic R but some Disney platformers and Lego games). I think you would enjoy that channel!
I honestly still love the games and look back on them fondly, even ones most people didn't like like Sonic Unleashed or Heroes, part rose tinted nostalgia, part that banging soundtrack, but i think it's best if Sega left him alone now, bring him back for crossovers, smash bros and games solely built on nostalgia value like Generations and that's really all you can do it, it's just painfully obvious that staff at Sonic Team either do not know how to write a non-cringe-worthy story as is the case with Sonic 06, Forces and Shadow The Hedgehog or they simply don't know how to design a truly great game from a gameplay standpoint as is with Sonic Unleashed's werehog segments or the absolutely atrocious anti-fast level design in Sonic CD (even though i still love both), there hasn't been a sonic game for a long time that doesn't fail in some aspect, even Mania is just well, regurgitating same ideas and concepts from the past. Sonic Unleashed had a good story though it's got those cute asf cutscenes and no OCs except the werehog i guess, and the boost gameplay is the best fight me
And another video saying about how Sonic was never good and la-dee-da and stuff. Aren't there tons of videos like this? What's the point of always pandering to that neverending pile of criticism of Sonic, like it's the worst franchise in existence. I always try to be respectful to other people's opinion, but here... It's not the case. JUST BECAUSE YOU SUCK AT THE GAME DOESN'T MEAN IT'S BAD. Sonic 1, 2 and 3 are build around the philosophy "The better you get at the game, the faster and more enjoyable it'll become". Sonic CD's level design, on the other hand, is a complete mess. If you want to streamline the level as in the other Genesis games, you just can't, because the level design isn't built for that. Just learn how these games actually work, and you'll see which ones really are the best.
@@apagan0075 Exactly, it's almost perfect for exploration and backtracking, but once you destroy the generator and try to go straight right, it often is either too easy or too maze-like. But the author of the video said that CD's level design is more streamlined than 1, 2 and 3's, and that's what I was counterargumenting
Good video, even if I disagree on a lot of your opinions (especially on Sonic 3, I find it to be significantly better than Sonic CD) Just because a bunch of my fellow fans are gonna get angry over a video, doesn't mean I will as well.
Funniest part is that like only one comment was truly salty. Most of the people were like you. Hell, most fandoms are usually chill, it’s usually a certain few individuals who ruin the bunch (CWC).
I researched into the sales numbers for forces and mania, and mania sold over 1 million in less than a year, meanwhile forces sold around 14 million. Soooo..... those numbers were wrong. At the very least forces sold over 200 thousand in its first week. So the sales numbers you said were completely wrong.. but I will say that as a sonic fan, I am disappointed in sonic team. I think he has a lot of great games, but all of his bad ones are horrendous. I wish he would come back in absolute glory, but the movie has crushed my dreams of that happening in the next few years. Not to mention the fact that there are a lot of sammyclassicsonicfan’s out there. As a fan of the series I am disgusted in the fans that screech any time a single sonic game is criticized for the smallest thing. It sickens me. But at least there are some sane fans out there. Those fans are the ones who will allow the series to live on.
Ok, but here is the thing. Mania was small game made for few bucks and targeted to hardcore fans. As such it was a success. Forces was mainline release what cost way more and disappoint literally everyone, so huge hunk of fans simply give up after that. Also I wouldn't be so harsh regard fifth Sonic Team. It was almost half decade when then didn't do any Sonic game, so most of creative team simply was not there.
You are wrong. The Sonic franchise is not dead. If sonic was a mediocre mascot do you really think that it would still be around past 2006? People still care about it, and no, they are not all insane. The fact that despite so many people having given up on the franchise that there are still people who care and have not given up is inspiring. Id like to see any other franchise survive what this franchise has, and still keep going with people who still want to see it succeed. Sonic is not dead.
Sonic 3 was sound design driven think about what you remember about 3 and I bet the first thing that comes to mind is the music. I love sonic 3 and sonic and knuckles but I know it's the music and fantastical visual themes that draw me. the gameplay is frustrating I am always taking damage or getting crushed by something I couldn't see or falling down a hole. That is bad level design with amazing art assets lol.
@@ezmodey1105 No. You're doing some hardcore projecting here, just because you only find enjoyment from the atmosphere, does not mean I agree. Sonic 3 has the best level design out of the entire Genesis series. It balances spectacle, exploration and platforming marvellously. The levels are varied and fun to complete, the power-ups are varied and alot of fun to use. It's just a solid 90's 2D platformer, and none of this comes from the music (although it certainly doesn't hurt). I for one, find it strange that you think the level design in 3 is bad. There's hardly any cheap enemy placements or cheap pits in that game. Sonic 2 and CD have ALOT of those problems, but 3 doesn't. Since 3 has a much larger exploration focus than 2, it also encourages you to take your time more, which prevents cheap deaths. Furthermore, cheap hits are pretty inevitable at times when you're playing such a fast character. This is why the ring system exists, to make getting hit more of a hassle than a punishment. Sonic is a game that allows you to go fast when you master it, it's about the skill you accumulate over MULTIPLE playthroughs.
@@MrJoeyWheeler And we have instead horrible, stale, sanitised product with almost no depth and minimal lore and on top of that which commonly is broken, cringe and inconstant. So sorry, but I pick Nintendo here 0_0
>Sonic
>Bloated
*DeviantArt Flashbacks*
@@mappingmapping95 honestly, doing that was the most fun I've had in a long time
Excluding the fetishes, there's an odd melancholy feeling looking at DA artists that used to exclusively draw Sonic related stuff like fancharacters or non-fetish fanart. There's either an emptiness when their last post was nearly ten years ago and you wonder what they're up to now or there's a warm feeling when they've become good artists after developing over the years and are now professionals. It's like their profiles are timelines of how they've matured as their lives went on.
MY OC DONT STEAL
Big Tiddy Wendigo GF Honestly that how I feel whenever I see anything with the dates 2009-2014. I feel so nostalgic for some reason.
@@mappingmapping95 I get an actual pet hedgehog
Sonic couldn’t even reach its full potential when he competed against Mario’s gang at several Olympic Games
Avery the Cuban-American why are you on the comment section of virtually every video i watch
I played one of the Mario & Sonic winter Olympics game, I have to say I liked it a lot.
@@davidandrade2279 Hey, I'm the one who stalks you, not him!
Bengali - I’ve played the original Beijing one and I actually find it... an amusing and inoffensive way to spend an hour or two with my siblings
AVERY?! WTF are you literally everywhere?! lol
The moment Sonic said Meow, he changed the world
Why are you in every video?
Loner Loner Organ Donor - the state mandates it
@@TuesdaySFD oh. I'm sorry for disrespecting our great leader Kim
Loner Loner Organ Donor you should expect a family holiday to a very special resort soon.
Woah
Was this entire video to brag about holding records in Sonic R?
Yup.
Probably
I think this entire video was made in order to piss me off personally.
Yeah, had to make it super controversial so it would gain tons of views so everyone could see how good at Sonic R he is
Probably. The key the having records are doing things nobody thought important before (like 98% of Guiness World Records)
"He had the personality of a solo cup and the charisma of a sex offender"
That explains the romance subplot of Sonic 06 pretty well.
but elise is older than sonic , sonic was 16 in 06 and elise was 17 or 18.
jmantime doesn’t help his solo cup level of charisma
scott bryant still more personality than Mario will ever have
@@jmantime let's not forget that Sonic is a hedgehog and Elise is a human.
@@cfltheman Let's not forget Sonic is an ANTHROPOMORCHIC hedgehog
"Nobody cares about this."
Me, an intellectual: SA2 Fandub.
“That just makes you a beta cuck”
@@OUTMORAL What the hell
*I've come to make an announcement*
WHY DOES TAILS HAS ALL THE FUCKING WEED?!
kingly - rion The most legendary speech ever.
Have to degrade in quality at a quick pace.
Gotta degrade FAST!
a bit like this channel
This video is filled with errors, lack of sourcing and unreasonable claims. Give this post a read
www.reddit.com/r/SonicTheHedgehog/comments/d8uyic/knowledgehubs_lies_and_blatant_misinformation
@@youmeltube ok
@@Thelizardwizardd Ok BOOMER. You cannot forget the boomer part.
It's cute how you implied there are hundreds of bad levels in Generations when the game can be beat in an afternoon which is one of its biggest flaws
While it doesn't have hundreds of levels there's a load of those missions or whatever, which give you the keys.
@@weskerpawnch you only have to do two each level, and they aren't that difficult
@@Nicholaskgaming True but they do exist there for more content. Content I don't really enjoy I'll say. I did like the optional boss battles though.
I got stuck on that game I got to the sky zone, completed both levels and got confused on how to progress any further
True
actually I beat the 3DS version in an 1-2 hours
hell I didn't even reach my house the day my parents bought it for me before I finish the game on my 3DS.
That's how short the game is xD
and for the console version I literally beat it the night I bought and downloaded it xD.
Is there a, "Sonic has had a rocky transition into the 3d world," or a, "The Sonic series has had many ups and downs, mostly downs," and parts where he makes fun of 06 and a few bad moments from the other games and tries to make it look as if the whole series centers around it?
@Spectator 101 i remember that video all too well lol
Yeah, p much your average boring "Sonic bad bc idk" video
*Jim Carrey:* P I N G A S
*Me:* _Just be careful, he's truly a hero..._
That brought back some Das Boschitt memories.
@@cnlbenmc i thiught i was the only one that remembered him
+@@Legitpenguins99+ Well if he would bother to upload anything there might be more of us roaming around.
ＰＩＮＧＡＳ
*_N O !_*
I use the Sonic drowning music as my alarm. That sound traumatized me so much as a child that as soon as the dun-dun-dun-dun starts, I'm awake.
Sonic 3 and Knuckles is widely regarded as one of the greatest games of the 16 bit era and one of the best 2D platformers ever made
Yes
I've never actually played it but form what I hear it sounds like it's up there with super mario world
Sad too see Sonic go down every time it tries to get back on its feat.This coming from a person who's never played Sonic.
It's not as extreme as it's stated in this video. Not ideal ofc, but there's still a lot of enjoyment to be had with Sonic.
It’s a great series just overly hated
Well if you want to start, start with Sonic Generations like I did. Probably makes it better when you don’t understand the original levels
Coming from a Sonic fan.
Yea your very accurate.
Sonic Mania: Good
Sonic Forces: Feels like tech demo
Sonic is.more good game bad gaood game bad game and few of the sonic games are truly great there just good
However least you know the sound track will me good
Knowledge Hub: Sonic Games arent good cause People dont wanna learn levels
Also Knowledge Hub: Sonic R is amazing cause you get to learn the levels
He said the problem was that a lot of the sonic games didn't have time trials.. which he praised Sonic R and CD for
"Sonic Mania wasn't about nostalgia"
its literal first trailer talked about "going back to the start". it was made for Sonic's 25th anniversary. it had many references to old games (from obscure games like Sonic the Fighters and more known games like Sonic 3) and like, only 1 or 2 to the modern games (and even then, they were from the 2d ones like the advance series). you yourself said it was about REINVENTING the classic games. it catered specifically for those who loved the classic games.
i disagree with many things on this video, but you don't have to take me seriously anyways
my pfp is a dead giveaway
If it wasn't about Nostalgia, then why are most of the levels from past Sonic games? Do we really need GHZ AGAIN?
As a kid who played the original 3 games in a Sonic mega drive collection for the DS, and somewhat the PS4 as well, Sonic Mania is anything but nostalgia, it's just a game that TRYS to be nostalgia, but doesn't click with me at all. It's effectively a huge cellection of reused assets(even if that's what it's trying to be) and a story that I can't even put close to the previous ones when it came to love and passion, Sonic 1's Scrap Brain and Final Zone filled you with determination to finally take down Eggman, Sonic 2 has him sent to the Death Egg to finally put Eggman to his place once again, and Tails shows friendship by saving Sonic at the last moment, in Sonic 3 we spent all the time making sure the Death Egg doesn't re-launch and once it does we reach into space to finish it off, with Doomsday zone being one of the most chaotic and adrenaline inducing moments in all of Sonic history. Sonic Mania, is about this weird crystal(I know it's called the Phantom Ruby, but I didn't give a fuck about what it was when I first played it) that can...take sonic to other stages...oh yeah and those Egg Robots turned into...Hard Boiled Heavies apparently...and we have to stop them...for whatever reason...as if EVERYTHING Eggman does just has to be evil am I right. Yeah, the story was so shit I didn't care about it, and so didn't have any feelings towards the gameplay because its basically just Green Hill, Chemical Plant, etc. Sonic Mania is overrated in my opinion and Plus even more so.
@@autistichades5552 Yeah, this is the problem I also have with the intro to Mania. It feels like a waste of an animated segment, since it doesn't hype up or tell us what's going on at all. At least Sonic and Knuckles opening bit showed the Death Egg, which is SOMETHING at least a tiny bit plot related.
Mania lacks a coherent story, maybe because the people who made the game only made re-makes before and never needed to do a full fledged story or maybe the ties to Forces put down what could have been.
Then again, there are plenty of people who think Sonic games should be a mindless experience with no story or plot elements at all, even though Sonic games have always been about the drive to find out what's going to happen next, at least pre-Colours games did that.
@@YujiUedaFan Well yes, but I enjoy Colours for its own merits. This is meant to be a nod back to the Classic era, and I get none of that nostalgia at all, hell I'd say Sonic Generations did it better. I feel they could've just made a Sonic game in the Genesis style, rather than just trying to fill everything to the brim with reused zones, features, badniks, etc. I also don't like how this guy believes that Sonic CD was the best game and Sonic 3 the worst. I know it's his opinion but true Sonic fans(or just people who actually invest their time into the game and not just play it for 15 minutes and call it a day) like me would have the polar opposite opinion to him.
@@autistichades5552 My issue with Generations is I really don't like the boost formula plus again it lacks a decent story and the game is way too short. In the end you're paying for the mods instead of the game itself. But I do get what you're saying, either go all out with reused levels or use none at all.
I have to ask about Mania:
Where did you get the fact that Sonic Mania has sold poorly?
SEGA has been intentionally vague about Sonic Mania's sales numbers, from what I recall.
It had enough success to have additional content a year later, so I can't imagine it was a failure.
Yes
Little did he know, the Sonic movie wouldn’t be that bad.
You are in denial.
@@Rgoid Or maybe they just liked it?
It was painfully mediocre, following the footsteps of many other 'road trip, cartoon character in the real world with a man who screams when they first see them' movies.
Second one was good, human stuff was garbage though.
@@enablednonsense9853 "I wanted the Sonic movie to be about SERIOUS THINGS!!! Like a GROWN MAN in a FLYING ROBOT HEAD dropping bombs on an anthropomorphic hedgehog!! How DARE THEY make a movie for kids dumb fun for the whole family??? They basically SHOT MY DOG in front of me."
@@cringeonpurpose lmao, funny and original.
Obviously everything in this video, at least when talking about game quality, is largely subjective.
That's is so true
Game quality isn’t subjective, however this dude is objectively wrong.
@@mikester8171 with how he's talking he seems like a mario fanboy he's trashing sonic's genesis games but praises mario 1,2,3 and world wich are 99% walking simulators (says someone who bought and enjoys mario on the switch)
@@mikester8171 Indeed tbh as a Sonic fan I was honestly just trying to not be, well, you know. Consider it code for "let's not get too angry at him guys". Basically I'm just being nice lol.
@@snailevangelist hey what else do you do in the old mario games beside walking and jumping there is nothing to explore and little to no boss fights
Okay I’m gonna be honest here, this video feels more of just a biased video especially with not knowing the exact information such as the sales of mania and forces or even who made them. Not to mention stating about how sonic R passes off as a fact rather than a opinion from how I viewed it. You also failed to acknowledge the core gameplay of the adventure games when it comes to exploration and replay-ability. It would’ve been better to at least to give out constructive criticism to specifically tell what they could improve on. Such as hire more developers, or don’t rush the game (which we did see them delaying their games such as mania and TSR so far)
Too bad TSR misses out characters like Cream though... Plus there's less playable characters in it that MK Double Dash.
@@YujiUedaFan honestly it just feels like the same overdone "sonic analysis" video ive heard 20 different times before. same format, same shtick.
Ok sammyclassicsonicfan
Lloyd Benn yeah but it was due to at the time they didn’t have enough devs which then led to the whole change
Felipe Jaquez I’m just stating how he fails to depict the certain aspects of gameplay for the games he said were inaccurate. He should’ve at leasts used information from the game critique at leasts of the main basis of the gameplay itself
I would’nt say sonic was a mediocre mascot back then. That’s the definition of the”it’s not Nintendo so it sucks”. He had, and still does have more personality than Mario ever will. The Mario character’s and games are amazing but Sonic doesn’t get him enough credit.
Spyro has worst though, until recently...
@@TheRezro What was done with Spyro the last several years (before the remakes) is something we don't speak about!
Mario has a cool personality in the RPGs.
@@KaiserMattTygore927 Is it bad that my first Spyro game was Tge Legend of Spyro: A New Beginning?
@@Chelaxim no he's not. Other characters might, but mario remains silent protagonist.
Mania didn’t sell well?
I need some sources.
Its the highest rated sonic game in like 20 years. Like what?
It seems he didn't do enough research.
Daijon Banks both forces and mania sold over 1 million
@@user-fy1nq3nf1q Not 20, since Adventure 1 (on dreamcast) and 2 (dreamcast too).
@@saricubra2867 In like*. Rough estimate.
While I agree with most of the video, how is Sonic 3 a step back from Sonic CD, but you go on to praise Sonic Mania? Sonic Mania shares so many qualities with Sonic 3 & Knuckles over Sonic CD. Also, you claimed that Sonic Forces sold only 100,000 copies? Where are your sources? A quick search will show that the true number (at least for first week sales) was closer to 234,000. While it's embarrassingly low, just exaggerating isn't helping you sound any more credible.
What people forget is that both games were developed by separate teams.
TheRezro And?
Mania sold 1mil+ beofre the release which is great for the budget and team size
@@bsgsmusic3451 And that is why there are quality differences. Do you have brain damage or something?
TheRezro It’s okay. Everyone gets their Cheerios pissed on every once and a while.
I just played Sonic Adventure for the first time on a Dreamcast and I thought it was good honestly.
Evil Roy Slade the definition of nostalgia
@@lucascurio8345 I played the game for the first time recently and I would say it's pretty good, I wasn't even alive when Adventure came out so you can't really say it's nostalgia
@@lucascurio8345 it's good
@@lucascurio8345 Dude said for the first time, what "nostalgia" would the guy even have bro. It was his first time and he liked it 💀
@@lucascurio8345 Played the game back in around 2018. Adventure 1 was always good.
I still think the franchise can make a great comeback, just in the right hands
Well, that movie prediction certainly didn't turn out
You effectively lost all credibility with me once you said "Sonic R best sonic" , at least in terms of games taste.
Yeah. He should have said that it's simply his favourite, or the best at following Sonic's original concept.
But the video itself is very opinionated
Diceman82 He lost me when he said that Sonic 3 was a downgrade from CD
He lost me when he said sonic mania didn’t do well.
I'd be fine with this video as an opinion piece but he states his opinion as fact backed up by numbers and real world events that he never gives proper context to.
He says it's the best because he hates the plot and characterizations of the franchise.
How dare you insult Sonic, he's gonna come knocking on your door delivering a sundae with skates now smh
GENESIS DOES WHAT NINTENDON'T!
haha
@@DarDarBinks1986 yes
is this a joke or a actual threat from a blind sonic fan cuz at tgis piont they merge
is this a historical video? if so, whats with these false claims of sonic being a bad mascot? sega was trampling nintendo in the video game market, stirring up big competition (cause sonic is a *great* mascot). is this a review of sonic games? if so, why are you skipping over major games in the franchise? you mightve loved the boost formula (a formula rewarding of top-speed) in unleashed, colors and generations, yet theyre completely ignored for... sonic r?! im not seeing the overall purpose of this video.
juneru The Super Nintendo came out in 1990, a year before Sonic. The Genesis was not doing well in America before he came around, and the Master System was almost non-existent in America at the time. The markets that Sega were doing well in (notably Europe) were areas that Nintendo didn't do particularly well in for years.
Tl;dr, In America at least, it was Nintendo curb-stomping Sega pre-Sonic. Your second point's still good though.
@@blueheelercultist ah tnx for pointing that out. i edited my comment to fix that.
certainly explains why sonic is still quite well known in europe (well at least in my area of england) i still see kids in sonic shirts from time to time despite the series just being filled with dad jokes now.
@@blueheelercultist Sonic was more famous than Mickey mouse at some point, that solidified him as a great mascot regardless of what's happening now.
5:20 I am sorry, but how is the original super mario bros more accessible then sonic 3? And how is sonic 3 a step back? It has multiple characters, better level design, super sonic. I really dont see how sonic cd is better then sonic 3 or 2 to be honest.
I keep screaming but god wont listen Sonic CD has the worst level design, what crack is he snorting?
@@White_Recluse Look he thinks sonic r is the best sonic game, I dont think we will really understand his point of view.
White Recluse Sonic CD was labyrinthine but it wasn’t worse than Sonic 1
@@flaviaocopeiro His POV is that the plot sucks, the characters suck and anything that gets in the way of speedrunning individual levels sucks.
@@lunatic0verlord10 That's not a good point of view.
Yes because in this age of Mania, Team Sonic Racing, the IDW series, and entire shots in a big budget Paramount film being completely reworked, Sonic is dead. Man, I never realized how much of an asshole I must have sounded like saying that I hate 2D Mario, but this is even worse since you're presenting all this as objective fact. No fun allowed!
Wait you hate 2d Mario?!
@@Trashboat4444 Yup. To me they're all so samey and generic. Even the weirdest one, World, still has those sluggish, slippery controls with no easing on acceleration. You're jogging and then you break into a full on sprint instantly, a same issue Sonic Forces is so frequently raked over the coals for.
@@aortaplatinum I dislike 2D mario as well, but i LOVE 3D mario games, i feel like 2D mario games don't even try to be different from the first four ones, essentially milking it more than mania did with the first four games.
@@aortaplatinum I love 2d mario AND 3d mario but after Yoshi Island, the formula became static. Donkey Kong Country took it place.
@@aedd3307 that Just happened since new super Mario bros wii
This whole video is him just felxing he got the wolrd speed run records for sonic R
Yuh
“Sonic CD levels are streamlined” wtf no they aren’t. Wacky work bench where you bounce everywhere. springs everywhere. The levels felt more like a labyrinth. Trying to go from past to future is annoying since you gotta have a good idea on how the level is designed to be able to get the right amount of momentum to time travel. In order to get the best ending, you either need to keep 50 rings at the end of the level (easier said then done especially for a first time player) or go to the past and find the one machine located somewhere in the level.
The one with the streamlined levels was sonic 2.
Agree. I appreciate the japanese ost and level design of the game but the level design in certain stages is just bad
@@Alby_Channel
Oh yeah the soundtrack is phenomenal. Both US and especially the Japanese/UK version.
I appreciate the levels encouraging exploration, but man it gets horrendous sometimes.
@@tjlnintendo Yeah the soundtrack is pretty solid. Oh sorry I meant to say I like the art style of the levels not the level design. Wacky Workbench is atrocious because of that "spring electrical floor"(?). I spent a lot of time just figuring out what to do
This man really said sonic CD and R are the best games 🤦♂️
And? It's his opinion.
@TheJRMproductions Hey, it's his opinion and not yours.
@@NitroFury hey im not retarded
He said it as a fact. He also said that literally nobody cares about the cutscenes in Sonic Adventure 2. Which is not an opinion nor true.
And he said that Adventure 1 has "RPG" elements.
I've played this game many times, and I still cannot find what elements he claimed this game have.
This guy is misleading and have no idea what he's talking about.
@@Nov-5062 Adventure 1 was originally meant to be an RPG earlier in development, but yeah I agree.
Sonic Mania didn't sell that well?
No clue were he got that it was 1mil+
@Colin McGrath yea but compare development cost and 1mil is good for what sonic mania is
@Colin McGrath With all due respect, comparing a low budget sprite platformer to an multimillion dollar game is daft.
Still not good sales figures. Investors must have been pissed. How much did Undertale and other idie games make?
@@QwerpOS undertale five nights at Freddys mincraft and other big indie games like that are rare 99% of Indies fail or barely break even mania made its money back if it didn't why pump out a rerelease of a failed game with added content games dont have to break sales records to be a success
Christ this video hurts to watch, especially that first minute or two. Maybe that's what you were going for? I dunno, but it ain't jiving with me or my eyes.
yeah ive seen this trend of youtubers "over-editing" recently. they just add so many effects and transitions that dont need to be there.
It's the whole "deep fried" meme category, where you intentionally get as many ugly graphics as you can, then boost saturation and throw ten filters on it so it looks like it was melted in a microwave. This is supposed to target the "so-bad-it's-good" boundary but normally just ends up being cringey.
Anyways I've given up on watching this channel for the exact thing you mentioned, but I find his topics mildly interesting so I just tab away and listen to him while browsing some other text based medium.
Exactly what MetaAmbience said, just tab away with Ctrl+Tab and make sure you can hear what he's saying
@@ambientcyan thats still weird to me, why spend so much time adding ugly effects to make a video "ironically" appealing? itd save so much more time making a video if it didnt have those effects.
Only sonic can get into area 51.
He probably came from area 51 to begin with
He invented the "Naruto run" so.
Not sure if I should take this video seriously or not...
I'm going with not taking it seriously.
Anyone else really liked Sonic Rush? I loved playing it on my old DS
Edit: I also really enjoyed Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood. It was a good rpg as a kid.
Rush is good Rush Adventure not so much. I have a soft spot for The Dark Brotherhood. I also kind of love Sonic R but that's just because i found it fun as a kid.
@@cartergamegeek Why do you not like Rush Adventure? I loved that game.
@@YoshifreakZX To much grinding. I hated getting stuff over and over. It was not fun to replay levels over and over to make the ships and stuff. It's just that part that kills me.
Yeah this video is pretty bad. Dont watch for a proper criticism.
Sonic advance was good too :(
@George Bell I haven't played 3 yet so idk but all the mario games on gba were ports which automatically sets them behind actual new games made for the platform
It had some pacing issues but I agree it was fun :3
@@SnowBunneh special stages were all absolute garbage tho tbh
ikr, he forgot about the advance, rush games, etc
advance 1 was absolutely great imo
Advance 3 was the best in the trilogy
I remember that proggresive sonic commercial and I was so confused when I first saw it.
You’re obviously not familiar with the sonic dreams collection
Woah woah, don't hate on Sonic DX, i loved playing that game on my cousins computer 😪😪.
If you don't like people bashing DX then stay away from Dreamcastify
DX was the best. I love that damn game. I still have it for my GameCube. The good ol' days before everything was an RPG.
Bedbugs the definition of nostalgia
The sonic fan base in general.
90s: Children trying to be RAD AS FUCK!
2000s: People trying to justify having a Dreamcast.
2010s: THIS IS SHIT! LOL!
Modern Day: FURRSONAS “MEOW!”
Honestly, I'd have to disagree with parts of this, especially the parts about Adventure. From what I've heard, the Adventure games were played by people in and out of the Sonic fandom when first released. Sure, there were conflicting opinions about the gameplay and plots, but people enjoyed them overall. I'm someone who doesn't particularly like the first Adventure at all, but to disregard just how well-received it was at the time is slightly unfair.
Did this man just call 3K a step back from CD?
He definitely did, but his preference of CD over 3 is the least of that idiot's problems.
Yeah. This video just seems ignorant and biased. He knows close to nothing about the series. He must’ve only done surface level research.
@@LucasMBoysOurRoy I don't even think this dude did any research that's close to surface level since he managed to lie about the sales figures. He says Mania didn't sell well, yet there's an article from Nintendolife that you can quickly find on Google that states how Mania sold over 1 million worldwide and thus is a commercial success. This isn't even getting into how Heroes, Shadow, 06, Secret Rings, Unleashed, Colors and Generations were all commercial successes, yet he chose to ignore all that. This slimy scumbag was intentionally trying to make the Sonic series look bad with this video. It's pathetic.
Exactly
Lucas M it’s one of those generic "haha sonic badd, he had rough time,3D sonic games succ haha" type of videos. It’s so overdone,stupid and unoriginal.
I had Sonic R on PC when I was younger. So many hours spent on it. Loved the shit outta it
the movie turned out alright guys
God-- Adventure Fans has it rough... It's like saying ''MARIO 64 SUCKS, BECAUSE IT RUINED MARIO''.
I get it Mario 64 revolutionize 3D, but you know what game also revolutionize 3D but gets treated with less respect? SA1.
Bomber Blurr SA1 was a massive critical success at the time. It was when SADX came out when everyone changed their minds.
You know a video is gonna be flawed when you can see criticism in the top comments.
LMAO at the end the close captioning translates "This is Tyler of Knowledge hub" to "This is Tyler of bowel trouble"
My opinion is wrong but i like the day time sonic unleashed levels because it’s fun to speed run the levels.
Opinions can’t be wrong. If you like the game, that’s cool. Just don’t be an idiot while doing so.
I’m sure you’re not the only one that likes the daytime Sonic levels in Unleashed. I like them too, but opinions are never wrong.
There is a generations mod for people like you. All daytime stages, no nightime stages. Idk where to find it tho
chrispo indeed there is
@@Que_Drum Yes they can be wrong.
I've never heard somebody say that CD was better than 3 & Knuckles.
...and then say that Sonic R was the best game in the franchise...
What are you smoking and where can I get it?
i would say sonic 1-knuckles and mania are the best in the series imo
I'm pretty sure he was smoking some kind of herb from a game I don't know that makes you go fast and obsess with speed while being repelled by everything else.
You speedrun Sonic R?! Woah.
Sonic mania sold very well... what are you talking about??
It sold so well that no one I know even knows it exists.
@@ricky-sanchez probably because all you play is fortnite and you're a preteen.
@@cameron6262 Lol i've been playing sonic since the original on the genesis. I've seen him go from glory to rock bottom. I OWN sonic mania. The game was good, but dont pretend it was a mega super seller, other wise we'd see sonic mania 2. Pull your head out of sonic's butt. Your just a fanboy that refuses to grow up. And for the record, the only great sonic games were sonic 2 (genesis) and Sonic cd (Sega cd). ALL the other sonic games were cash grabs. Now go back to playing sonic forces, little one.
@@cameron6262 ok buddy. Have a nice day.😅
@@ricky-sanchez Wow, you really need to learn grammar and spelling... "You're" and "Otherwise". Also a "Sonic Mania 2" not being in the pipeline isn't a "sign" of success or not.... lmao. Of course you wouldn't understand that because you're just a kid. Finish school.
"SONIC BAD"
l a u g h
HaHaHaHa you see the joke is mario good sonic bad
Sonic CD and Sonic R are the peaks?
I used to think opinions couldn't be wrong, but then...
the word "are" in that statement implies fact , so it is the wrong way to express an opinion . the right way would to put "i think" or "I believe" at the beginning
@@mbdg6810 yeah but he expresses his opinions as facts in this video.
@@jhonjacson798 i know that.
@@mbdg6810 oh I'm sorry. I thought you were being passive agressive to the OP like you were saying he was stupid for interpreting knowledge hub's words as factual statements.
Sry about that
@@jhonjacson798 its ok :)
Man, i kinda feel bad for being a sonic fan. All of the shit the fandom and sega themself brought him through..
This was in my reccomended videos for a long time. I finally watched it, and hey guess what it's exactly what I expected. My comment will be very long and pissy so be warned.
You gloss over every game you talk about, oversimplifying your view of them. For example, Sonic 3. You treated that game with such little respect that it honestly made me upset. Your entire analysis was 7 words: "More roadblocks, water levels, iffy level design."
Let's neglect to mention the unique yet balanced characters, the much improved special stages, the shields that give Sonic an extra ability, the less dickish hazard placement. Or even the faults, like how some levels drag way too long and can feel repetitive, the midbosses being filler most of the time, I could go on. My point is that you didn't try.
The old Sonic games were built with an arcade mindset. There was no time attack because as you said, the expectation was that players would replay *all* the levels over and over to get better at them. This sort of design is seen as outdated nowadays but you have to consider the time period (1991-1992). Besides, Sonic CD and 3 added a save function due to their potential length. I also feel that you need to look past the "speed" part and try to find other merits, like the many secrets and alternate paths hidden in the levels, rewarding both exploration and good gameplay.
You failed to mention Sonic Heroes and Shadow the Hedgehog, both of which I think would've contributed to your overall point. They are mainline games, especially Shadow.
Sonic R is not as bad as everyone says it is, but I think the issue with calling it the "best" Sonic game is that it lacks substance to make it last. You can easily 100% the game in under an hour, and there's only 5 tracks. Sure there's a time attack, but you'll eventually get sick of just going fast. I like finding the secrets in the Grand Prix, but the speed at which you can get them all ultimately harms the game, as the racing by itself becomes a shallow experience.
And good lord, cut down on the smug snark. Everybody does it, it's super obnoxious and the reason why I avoided this video for so long. I knew it would be in there.
You've probably heard this from several other people, but this felt really half-assed and not much of an analysis, a review, or even really a look at these games. My whining is done now.
He freaking warned us but we FREAKING DIDN'T LISTEN!
So it's the usual "UA-camr doesn't like Sonic and says the same stuff again #100"
A really flawed "review" that fails in several ways.
You could say the same as the inverse "Sonic fan gushes over the story of SA1 and 2 #133".
idk maybe cause I'm more on the middle of this whole "Was sonic ever good?!" nonsense I find both sides to be pretty biased for different reasons. The truth is, Sonic does a lot right and a lot wrong at the same time...
I got an ad for a Sega Genesis classic before this video.
So. A certain movie came out. Wanna try saying Sonic is irrelevant again?
Ay bruh, mind giving this video a redo? Seriously this seems more opinionated, hypocritical of said opinions and, well, bloated with misinformation. I've been binging your more recent stuff and love how organized, engaging, and objective as possible. When I take a look at this it just feels genuinely messy. And just a tad mean spirited to a series I myself love. What I'm getting at is, can you give Sonic a second shot?
I think the reason this is probably his worst video is because he assumes no one cares or has thought deeply about sonic in over 20 years. But little does he know people care a lot about this series and we have been talking about what makes these games good or bad for years.
sounded so negative this felt you were like only showing your tastes of not liking much at all of sonic anytime until mania but that game also had similar positives to his first couple of games, you praised mania while those games shared a lot similarities to the older tittles i just don't understand so you're he was always bad until he pandered to the least tolerable kind of sonic for you because it then would sound like a lot of the videos was just your taste ?
if you loved sonic r i don't understand why didn't you try talk about sonic riders.sonic team racing, sega all stars racing, and sonic rivals to compare sonic r and see if it improved and or see what tastes they can add to the basis of sonic r just being sonic racing. just recommending stuff well for even another video since you said you played and watched basically everything sonic related or well it made it seem like you did. personally my favorite the sonic rush gameplay was the best style of gameplay, it was imo the best in sonic colors ds and sonic unleashed for the wii/ps2
sonic fan, personally sorry if i sound upset by any chance anywhere lmao
this video aged well
specifically the "sonic movie will ruin the brand" and "sonic is a dead franchise
also this video is kinda not great
the thing about sonic stories being more serious and not being a silent protagonist is stupid
the times they tried making a less serious story guess what it fucking sucked and is genuinely the worst story in any game ive played
Sonic adventures 1 & 2 had some very memorable songs for its soundtrack. Very much 90's music, but I do still like them
I often miss people remembering Sonic Advance 1&2 on GBA. It was for me the best sonic games. The game play was fast and fluid, which the originals promised but never kept and the difficulty was not too high not too low. Unfortunately too few know those titles
Petition to change the saying beating a dead horse to beating a dead hedgehog
Sonic Franchise: Mania, Team Sonic Racing, the new IDW comic and recent animation endeavors
Epic YT essay men:
Sonic Franchise: a bad game from 13 years ago
Epic YT essay men: SONIC IS DEAD
It is complicated. Everyone can agree that Sega screw this franchise due to lack of sense of the direction. After first Golden Age 91-94 (Sonic1-3, CD and SatAM) when cooperation between Sega CS and STI was good, STI (who made Sonic 2-3) was closed for stupid reason (and also basically end possibility of popular American Timeline becoming canon). Then we have first Sonic Dark Age 95-00, when Sega unsuccessfully try force Sonic into handhelds and 3D with many random teams developing games.
Even if newly formed Sonic Team (CS3/AM8) made Adventure in 98, thing is that it was released on unpopular Dreamcast, so in fact majority of the fans didn't play it until 2003 Director's Cut. It is why for many people Dark Age of franchise end with Sonic Advance, what still was huge step back, what is why not many people remember those games. And popular Adventure 2 developed by Sonic Team USA (overlapping with also popular Sonix X anime) what reignited interest in the franchise, even if classic fanboy complain about gameplay (what is hypocritical considering they lack of interest in Advance games).
Anyway both lines exist until Sega decided to close American studio, again (what again was one who made successful Sonic games). It lead to disaster of Shadow the Hedgehog, when they attempt to stay relevant (aka not be closed) failed. Point is that newly reformed GE1 (Sonic Team 4.0) was composed mostly from new people and those who did know what they were doing lack of creative control. It leas to Second Dark Age 04-07 what was definitely less severe as still many good games (Riders and Rush) come out, but whole thing lack consistency with many high profile flops like Sonic 06. But to me honest on the end they did start making more consistent good games like Unleased and Riders 2.
It is when they were restructured again (CS2 aka Sonic Team 5.0), but this time it was a good thing as proper people get proper tools to work on proper sonic games. It leas do series of constantly good games like Colors and generations. Also even is Sonic 4 was a failure, it still was first attempt to reignite classic series. Sadly some good spin off franchises suffered like sad end of Riders series. What bad we can say about Lost Word it was experimental and attempt to both resurrect Extreme and cash on popularity of Mario Galaxy. But it failed. Sadly Sega duck up again and this time... well, they take Sonic from Sonic Team and give it to some shitty developers in Boom series, leading to third Dark Age of Sonic 2014 up to today. For reminder Mania wasn't developed by Sega and Forces was made half decade later, so most people from original team moved long ago. We shouldn't blame the creators here.
@@TheRezro Tbh I didn't like Sonic Forces but all the stuff being released around it (albeit none of it by Sonic Team) has been pretty great. It doesn't help that mainline games have been coming out much slower than they used to, with the two recent ones having tons of issues. Here's to hoping the next title is better or we get a Mania sequel
“He had the personality of a jazz solo cup and the charisma of a sex offender.”
-KnowledgeHub, 2019
"How many bad takes can I fit in one video?"
What gonna cry?? Aww he doesn't like your favorite franchise.
@@jonathanmomentbruh3307 I'm pretty sure he isn't insulting KnowledgeHub. He's just talking about how so many opinions in this video are unpopular.
I love it when people who never really "got" classic Sonic try to analyze it in depth.
Not everything has to be for everyone, so just as many people out there will likely never enjoy playing one of my personal GOAT (Dark Souls, a game which reeeealy isn't for everyone), or how I never really "got" Mario myself and think it's way too overrated, many people never enjoyed and never will enjoy classic Sonic, it's just not for you, but it doesn't meant "it was never good", you just never liked it, and that's fine.
I totally thought everyone was gonna hate the sonic movie but the completely unexpected happened. The creators listened to fan criticism and the movie came out actually good.
and then the movie was successful
I usually love your videos, but I think you failed to analyze this matter properly by failing to separate fact from opinion. I am disappointed.
Haha yeah “sonic bad Mario good sonic has had a rough time over the years yadda yadda” we’ve already done this song and dance a million times. Half of the people still beating the sonic fan base and sonic himself don’t even care about his games or what happens, they just like to shit on sonic because it makes them feel good. I know sonic isn’t a perfect franchise but seriously c’mon these videos are all the same and have the same points it’s getting annoying, but I guess my point is devalued because I’m a “sonic fan” and the vocal minority of this fan base gets to speak for millions of regular people.
Also I hate the typical "Sonic's friends = bad, Solo Sonic = good" mentality, as well as hypocrites that hate 3 and Knuckles, yet love Mania which is just Sonic 3 and Knuckles again with less levels.
Ueda Yuuji Fan totally agree, I think it stems from the mass criticism of sonic adventure and sonic heroes, which I can understand but that doesn’t mean that playable characters besides sonic don’t work. Tails and knuckles are prime examples of the sonic and friends mini formula could work, tails being about Sonics speed and being able to fly, meaning you can skip harder paths or find some extra monitors or capsules depending on the game, and knuckles being a bit slower but able to glide and have different paths, and while I do think knuckles radar gimmick could work, I would love to see him in a speed stage.
@@hornie_pie_7861 Also, Sonic Adventure got buggier with each port. I played the Steam version a few days ago and it's WAY buggier than the GC version.
I'm not a fan of Heroes on the other hand, since for me it's the start of Sonic's decline; promoting a short story with little stakes that matter.
Ueda Yuuji Fan I agree, I’m not saying they don’t deserve the criticism they get. Sonic heroes is far from a great game, and SA1 on anything but GCN and Xbox are basically unplayable. People just gave up to soon on the playable characters thing, like after heroes it was basically just sonic and sonic only (not counting the spinoffs like riders and black night).
@@hornie_pie_7861 Picked up Heroes off my shelf, played it, soundtracks top tier, game is fucking trash.
Bad slippery controls and character which for a game about speed is garbage.
Allies keep shouting the same words over and over *and if i hear tails shout 'wee' one more timr i swear to fuck'*
Alternate paths are cool but ultimately worthless 80% of the time.
And the bugs, my god.
And I was trying REALLY hard to like it.
12:40 the founder or a former employee of Travelers Tales has a UA-cam channel called GameHut i think, where he shows early prototypes and coding secrets of retro games he worked on (not only Sonic R but some Disney platformers and Lego games).
I think you would enjoy that channel!
I honestly still love the games and look back on them fondly, even ones most people didn't like like Sonic Unleashed or Heroes, part rose tinted nostalgia, part that banging soundtrack, but i think it's best if Sega left him alone now, bring him back for crossovers, smash bros and games solely built on nostalgia value like Generations and that's really all you can do it, it's just painfully obvious that staff at Sonic Team either do not know how to write a non-cringe-worthy story as is the case with Sonic 06, Forces and Shadow The Hedgehog or they simply don't know how to design a truly great game from a gameplay standpoint as is with Sonic Unleashed's werehog segments or the absolutely atrocious anti-fast level design in Sonic CD (even though i still love both), there hasn't been a sonic game for a long time that doesn't fail in some aspect, even Mania is just well, regurgitating same ideas and concepts from the past. Sonic Unleashed had a good story though it's got those cute asf cutscenes and no OCs except the werehog i guess, and the boost gameplay is the best fight me
Oh boy, I wonder if The Geek Critique has seen this treasure yet
Would he like it or not?
@@Que_Drum The Geek Critique is probably the biggest sonic fan on youtube, so he'd probably hate it.
Never in my life have I heard the take that Sonic CD is not only the peak of the series, but that 3K is a downgrade
This is a real bruh moment
And another video saying about how Sonic was never good and la-dee-da and stuff. Aren't there tons of videos like this? What's the point of always pandering to that neverending pile of criticism of Sonic, like it's the worst franchise in existence. I always try to be respectful to other people's opinion, but here... It's not the case. JUST BECAUSE YOU SUCK AT THE GAME DOESN'T MEAN IT'S BAD. Sonic 1, 2 and 3 are build around the philosophy "The better you get at the game, the faster and more enjoyable it'll become". Sonic CD's level design, on the other hand, is a complete mess. If you want to streamline the level as in the other Genesis games, you just can't, because the level design isn't built for that. Just learn how these games actually work, and you'll see which ones really are the best.
STikER Thing with CD is more about finding areas to time travel and get the Generators to get the Good Future without use of the Time Stones
@@apagan0075 Exactly, it's almost perfect for exploration and backtracking, but once you destroy the generator and try to go straight right, it often is either too easy or too maze-like. But the author of the video said that CD's level design is more streamlined than 1, 2 and 3's, and that's what I was counterargumenting
STikER The worst in Sonic level design is mostly Dimps Trial and Error, the best example is Advance 2.
At least sonic lore is somewhat interesting from the perspective of having game theory filter it into his physics and comic storyline.
I need another *Sonic Heroes* game
That’s peak Sonic for me
"3D Sonic bad, 2D sonic good" - Knowledge Hub, 2019
No no, all of sonic bad, but sonic cd and sonic r good.
Lol no, he basically says all of sonic sucks besides R and CD
i never liked sonic. But that's ok, not everyone has to like it. But the amount of milking that happened with him made me hate it
Edzter True But Mario was just as milked if not even more
@@AaronSoul725 true but Mario has some good games.
@@AaronSoul725 Mario was the "good" case of milking, Sonic however was a different story.
How do you milk a hedgehog what does hedgehog milk taste like
@@maxweisel9027 Yeah, but what about a Fat Italian Plumber's milk?
Yeah.. you're right about the bloating thing...
*Shudders in deviant art*
Good video, even if I disagree on a lot of your opinions (especially on Sonic 3, I find it to be significantly better than Sonic CD)
Just because a bunch of my fellow fans are gonna get angry over a video, doesn't mean I will as well.
Funniest part is that like only one comment was truly salty. Most of the people were like you. Hell, most fandoms are usually chill, it’s usually a certain few individuals who ruin the bunch (CWC).
@@Que_Drum Eh. I like to assume there was at least a couple of salty comments that got automarked as spam.
jdub2003 salt comments get auto flagged as spam
I mean yeah there the fair amount of just hate comments, there’s still a good majority of comments saying what’s wrong with the video.
OK OK WE GET IT, WE DIDNT NEED ANOTHER VIDEO LIKE THIS
I’ve played all the Sonic games and Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 left me with the best memories.
I got an ad for the sonic collection in the middle of this and I just thought it was part of the video xD
2022 here: The movie was great and they're making a sequel! LOL
I researched into the sales numbers for forces and mania, and mania sold over 1 million in less than a year, meanwhile forces sold around 14 million. Soooo..... those numbers were wrong. At the very least forces sold over 200 thousand in its first week. So the sales numbers you said were completely wrong.. but I will say that as a sonic fan, I am disappointed in sonic team. I think he has a lot of great games, but all of his bad ones are horrendous. I wish he would come back in absolute glory, but the movie has crushed my dreams of that happening in the next few years. Not to mention the fact that there are a lot of sammyclassicsonicfan’s out there. As a fan of the series I am disgusted in the fans that screech any time a single sonic game is criticized for the smallest thing. It sickens me. But at least there are some sane fans out there. Those fans are the ones who will allow the series to live on.
Ok, but here is the thing. Mania was small game made for few bucks and targeted to hardcore fans. As such it was a success. Forces was mainline release what cost way more and disappoint literally everyone, so huge hunk of fans simply give up after that. Also I wouldn't be so harsh regard fifth Sonic Team. It was almost half decade when then didn't do any Sonic game, so most of creative team simply was not there.
You are wrong. The Sonic franchise is not dead. If sonic was a mediocre mascot do you really think that it would still be around past 2006? People still care about it, and no, they are not all insane. The fact that despite so many people having given up on the franchise that there are still people who care and have not given up is inspiring. Id like to see any other franchise survive what this franchise has, and still keep going with people who still want to see it succeed. Sonic is not dead.
Problem is not that people don't care. Problem is that Sega doesn't...
Ben Dover, I personally think he meant mediocre as in referring to the situation (with all those bad games) and not relevance.
I’m prepared to die for saying this I think sonic unleashed is a good game I really liked it
Sonic 3, a step down? Sonic CD is the only classic game with good level design?
Sorry buddy, you lost me.
Sonic 3 was sound design driven think about what you remember about 3 and I bet the first thing that comes to mind is the music. I love sonic 3 and sonic and knuckles but I know it's the music and fantastical visual themes that draw me. the gameplay is frustrating I am always taking damage or getting crushed by something I couldn't see or falling down a hole. That is bad level design with amazing art assets lol.
@@ezmodey1105
No. You're doing some hardcore projecting here, just because you only find enjoyment from the atmosphere, does not mean I agree.
Sonic 3 has the best level design out of the entire Genesis series. It balances spectacle, exploration and platforming marvellously.
The levels are varied and fun to complete, the power-ups are varied and alot of fun to use.
It's just a solid 90's 2D platformer, and none of this comes from the music (although it certainly doesn't hurt).
I for one, find it strange that you think the level design in 3 is bad. There's hardly any cheap enemy placements or cheap pits in that game. Sonic 2 and CD have ALOT of those problems, but 3 doesn't. Since 3 has a much larger exploration focus than 2, it also encourages you to take your time more, which prevents cheap deaths.
Furthermore, cheap hits are pretty inevitable at times when you're playing such a fast character. This is why the ring system exists, to make getting hit more of a hassle than a punishment. Sonic is a game that allows you to go fast when you master it, it's about the skill you accumulate over MULTIPLE playthroughs.
What is this editing style? It's vaguely dystopian and brillaint.
I really wonder what would happen if Nintendo owned Sonic, would it have gone down the path that it had?
Alex Helmin probably not. Mario still has great hits, and unlike SEGA, their teams don’t fight.
Sonic would have ended up like mario - a horrible, stale, sanitised product with almost no depth and minimal lore.
@@MrJoeyWheeler And we have instead horrible, stale, sanitised product with almost no depth and minimal lore and on top of that which commonly is broken, cringe and inconstant. So sorry, but I pick Nintendo here 0_0
A video for AlternativeHistoryHub
no, and here's why.
1. Miyamoto is in nintendo
2.Miyamoto is in nintendo.
3.Miyamoto is in nintendo.
*Calls Sonic R good, and Adventure bad
Lmao