I disagree with so many of the premises here. Such as… new pro horns are not made as good as classic tank horns, or the idea that you have to adjust a new pro horn out of the box. Newer horns have more technology put into to for balance, intonation and response and that is a huge advantage. These are all beautiful, wonderful horns but since most users who ask what horns to buy may not know what they like yet, a good recommendation is to buy something that is a slight price stretch for you, get comfortable with it, then continually test out horns at stores and eventually gravitate to what feels and sounds best for you. But remember, the mouthpiece may be even more important for the sound.
All great horns. It comes down to personal taste and the feel of the horn. By the look the Zephyr is georgeous, but for the sound i tend to the cigar cutter.
@@drwallysax Dr Wally, you should do a modern vintage saxophone comparison with the popular options of today. I feel your input is valuable to a lot of ppl that support your channel.
I played on a Super 20 next to a Mark VI at a repair shop one time and could not put that 20 down. It was not for sale and I am honestly a hack anyway, so it was back to reality for me. I got a great deal on a 1960 Buffet SuperDynaction alto and have loved it ever since. :)
I have a 13*** Cigar Cutter. Retired it about 5 years ago after playing it for over 20 years. Needs a pro quality restoration. Haven't found a modern alto that sounds as sweet. My ear perked up when you played the King Zephyr.
I purchased an Ishimori Wood Stone AF New Vintage Unlacquered Alto Sax from Get-A-Sax last November and I absolutely love it! The feel of the horn and intonation is unlike any alto I have ever played. Several of my saxophone buddies have tried it and are saving up their dollars for one. Brian and Tyler were great to work with and really set-up the horn nicely before sending it out. I know it isn't vintage, Wally, but you really ought to try one - especially the unlacquered version.
Your, " go practice," is well taken. A horn plays what it is given. My Martin alto sounds like any of these great horns- if I certainly go practice. My Committee II, 1938, has the sweetest high D# - dead on the money every time. My 10 M; double receiver is a nice asset. That Conn artist... Doc, you and the Conn had the magic for me, Great Demo.
Thanks for this great video. I've always played vintage horns, mostly because they were affordable. That said, I also love the history. I've got an alto Buescher Aristocrat 1936 and a Holton 241 tenor 1947. Love them both.
@@drwallysax Greetings Doc… As far as Yamaha altos go, do you think an old overhauled Yamaha 62 purple logo would be better or worse than say the newest yas-62 that has been properly COA’d ?? (forget about price for a moment for the primary or initial answer). Thanks! Your channel always works for me!😉 Yeah, I know, go practice! 👨🏻🎷🥳
Thank you Dr. Wally for celebrating these beautiful works of art! I've always gravitated to vintage horns, probably because of the price at first, but because of their incomparable tone and beauty. If you want to buy one, I think I would vote for the Kings. They are spectacularly beautiful to look at, and their tone and playability is awesome too.
I’m a personal fan of the conn. It has great edge but has a dark element to it too. Great all rounder. Also the super 20 is great. 3 for me was the Yamaha
Without being in the same room, it is hard to say which one sounds the best. You sound great on all of them, but if I had to pick one for you, I really liked what you played on the King Zeypher.
I would love to get a Super 20. Played one once and it felt like wild horses and I had to rein them in. I love my Radio Improved. Has some serious idiosyncrasies but it's me now. I like the new Eastman horns a lot also.
I want them all! Know what you mean about the wild horses. It's like those guys who buy Lamborghinis and total it the first day when they mash the gas!
Ok…that was awesome. There’s a place for each of these colors in the crayon box of saxophones! What a testimony to the craftsmen of yore. You are a fortunate man to be able to play and feel these remarkable beasts!
No way did I know that you were going to feature the King, but I'm not surprised. I play a 1954 King Zephyr tenor, the basic version of the fancier Super 20, and the thing simply sings... and, yes, it's meticulously made. Coincidentally, many decades ago, I spent a lot of time in Cleveland Ohio and worked less than a mile from the King factory and had no idea of its existence. What a Sax!
Robert here again - note on ergonomics For small to medium hands its hard to beat a Selmer balanced action horn , MkVI, Yamaha, Yanigasawa. This is especially true for Tenor. For Med large to large hands, the balanced action Keywork - off set tone holes - is cumbersome and can be down right painful. OK, apparently Marcel Mule was the exception. I have large hands and have given up the idea of playing a Super Balanced action horn. I have tried MkVI and VIIs several times. For me its a King or Martin Tenor. The Conn 10 M is somewhere in between - in line tone holes, but your R hand is still slightly cocked to the Left of center. The old Selmer Super and Balanced horns - Cigar cutter ( those before The Super Balanced action) - those with the bell keys on the inside of the bell - had in line tone holes and are the nearest thing to a Mark VI for people like me.
The reverb is a more important variable to listener in this vid, Doc. These saxes all sound great. Brands and models are personal preference. I played a 1976 Mark 6 tenor and a 1950 SBA alto for years. I tried a mint YTS 61 in early 80s. Sold the Mark and never looked back.... still my no. 1 until recent procurement of brand new Custom Z tenor. Bought it to match a mint Custom Z alto I got 2 yrs ago. The Yamahas seem less fragile. My sleeper horns are the newer Buffet 400 series. I drove to SaXQUEST in St. Louis to score the new tenor. I was seriously considering a new/mint Yamaha soprano for the Triifecta. We A/B all the Yam. models and ranked against my closet queen 2007 Mad Meg Cannonball. Played and sounded too close to justify the cost IMHO. Saxquest and staff are really worth a visit. Keep swinging for the fences, Professor.
Enjoyed the video, my ear heard lots of contrasting sounds. I was really surprised by the Yamaha, in a good way, and you can get killer deals on those horns. My favorites were the King and the Zephyr. I picked up a Super 20 1A during the pandemic. I was floored with the sound I got initially and figured I could get around the ergonomics. Turns out it’s a bigger deal then I’d like it to me. Currently considering selling it to move into a MVI, but I feel like I’m somewhat committing a crime. I’d imagine the 1A is very similar in feel to the Zephyr. Can you describe the difference in ergos between the Zep and this King? My biggest issue is the bubbled F# & G# keys, and low pinky keys, of course.
No Buffet Crampon super dynaction or S1 ? No Hohner Président ? No Pierret Super Artist or Compétition ? No Keilwerth Toneking ? There's all another World outside USA , you know ???
Thanks so much for posting this. I’m a huge Yamaha fan, so the Purple Logo is the obvious choice. Keep up the great video content! You’re fun to watch!
I like the sound you got with the Dorsey and I really liked the tone of the Cigar Cutter but I slightly preferred the King Zeyphr Special, I really like it's smooth sound and it is a sax I'd like to play one day if I get the chance. 3:18 - Build quality? Made better? While I have never played a vintage sax yet, I have one word, Yanagisawa. I have never once had any issues with the build quality with my Yanagisawa AW02. It has never once went out of adjustment or needed repairs in the 3 and a half years I had it. Jay Metcafle from Better Sax said the same and said from a repairman's perspective, they are a pleasure to work on.
I tried a couple, did not love them which surprised me! Given my adoration for Bud Shank and Desmond (who both used the Balanced Action) I had intended to buy one. Alas, the mark vi felt more comfortable in many respects.
I have access to buy a King Zephyr series II, SN 379***. How good is it compared with the Zephyr Special or the Super 20? How expensive could it be fine?
My Martin Indiana with a Vandoren T7 mouthpiece and a #3 Fibracell is the best sound. I have owned a number of great saxes (but not a King). However, I have bought a Yamaha 62 because it is "modern" and does everything everyone says about it. At the age of 80 I am done with vintage, I think. It's the player mostly, not the horn.
Plastic screws, softer materials, a Selmer Supreme (7000 USD tenor)out of the factory that needs work... these statements are BS and biased. And although it is true that some vintage horns are build sturdier, a 100 year old sax also has 100 years of wear and tear, which makes it more likely to go out of alignment or in need of maintenance. I own several Selmer SA80II's a Yamaha, played King Super 20's, Mark VI's and Committee's and it basically comes down to each horn and how they have been treated in the past.
Dr. Wally: Is it possible for you to get ahold of a Jupiter JTS1100SGQ tenor sax? I would love to hear what you think of it. I have been unable to find any kind of review or test of it.
Personnally, i prefere my c melody selmer modele 28 pre SSS. Or my baritone selmer modèle 22, they're problem but you play on the first baritone by selmer and it's fun, I love my couesnon c melody too
Regardless of which sax you played on, Dr Wally, the core sound is still you with very subtle differences. I absolutely love your sweet round tone with that nice overtones. I wish I can have your sound.
You sound very good on all of them! ( not much of help I guess..) But the Zephyr sounded warmer or more mellow.. very “round” sound sort of. Nice! Had a hard time telling the other apart just by listening ( even if I have good headphones)
@@drwallysax Isn’t it very often that way with all our gear. To a listener it sounds just about the same, but for the player there can be a huge difference in feel and respons. And that can make a big difference in how much, and what, you play and practice. And how inspired you get as a player. Which one gave you the best feel? Good luck with whatever horn you go for!
@@matsmanteatern698 VERY VERY true. I wish I could have spent more time with each, hard to say which felt the best! If the Cigar Cutter were a bit prettier, I might say that one!
The saxes in the thumbnails are not the same as in the video, but I think one of them is a silver plate conn transitional which I’m now the proud owner of!
I'd really like to hear some older French instruments alongside these, like the SML Model D and Buffet Super Dynaction, to hear the difference. Interesting vid!!
Wanna trade?? I have a vintage Conn silver plated circa around 1914.. sounds like im squeezing a sick goose. might be the mouth-piece which is the original, fits the instrument snug like the glove did on 'The Juice'. other mouth pieces are too loose. Im puzzled.. please advise or shall i just drop a duce..and just keep improving bc its the user here?
I got. an incredible god Selmer MKVI from Willy Zumbrunnen…Saxprofi and Organisator for the Jazzfestivals In Montreux… he was playing the MKVI for decades and always give it to the best Saxdoc in Swizz … now it‘s my best Sax in the Studio … Yamaha 62 ( the old one ) was always a Great Horn too but the MK is on top … Vibrations. Flexible.Sounds and i feel the sax like i Never did … a sax Made for the Hands oft the Artist
You make all of these sing, but I LOVE your sound on the Super 20. That was my second horn acquired in 6th grade ('vintage' is a relative thing I suppose), I kick myself now for letting it go 44yrs ago, won't make the same mistake with my Dorsey! Off to play post-vacay catch up on Doxy...
@@drwallysax yes, you already know that! Just as lovely but not nearly as pretty as the one you played here. My long gone Super 20 was beautifully pristine with silver neck and keys, but did not have full pearls. Your humble Studio student, Dave B
@@drwallysax yeah, as an infrequent UA-camr I was surprised by my name as well! Now that I’m playing out more, hope to be looking soon for a daily travel horn to give the Dorsey a break now and then…
yeah seriously. Why pay crazy money for a new saxophone when with vintage saxes even top of the line pro instruments with heavy gold or silver plate and gorgeous engraving done by hand using techniques probably unknown today can be had for pennies on the dollar? On top of that, half the time the sax has a decent vintage mouthpiece or two just sitting in the case? it's lunacy, frankly. Obviously you're more likely to have to pay for service. But even new horns come with issues straight out the factory.
Thanks for putting this together & sharing, Wally. Some terrific sounding vintage horns to enjoy listening to. As more of a lyrical player, I tended to come back to the Conn Artist after listening to the "competition" several times, buddy.
You should try out a Buffet SuperDynaction alto. I think it has as nice a sound as you can find. It may be a bit newer than even the Super 20 but the sound is dark and beautiful. That said, I play on a 1964 Super 20. It has some intonation issues but a very nice sound. FWIW I was at the MusikMesse in Frankfurt, GE and trying out various horns. This was the early '90's. Among others I played several baritone saxes and decided I liked the Yamaha best because it had a smooth, dark sound. I began talking with another guy who fell in love with the Selmer because it had lots of edge to its sound. Interesting that we both felt the same way about the 2 horns but chose differently because of the sound we wanted. EDIT: Again FWIW, I tried out Super 20's in high school and found that the palm keys were much easier to use than on other saxes. My tenor is a fabulous Super 20. Both my Kings have the silver bell.
There are so many outstanding horns. Thanks for showing vintage as a great option. Love the art with the wine-tasting type analysis. Choosing a horn is so personal. I need to produce my sound and choose a horn I don’t have to fight much to deliver. 50 years ago, Mark VI was love at first sight (sound). Others will keep on looking.
The only reason shops push vintage is because their profit margins on used and vintage are great. The build quality is not better than modern with the big boys and I would argue the build quality on vintage at times is worse than modern I have seen many vintage horns where the metal literally bends under monomial pressure like a number of Conn New Wonders I’ve seen. I love a good Super 20 but let’s be honest it has design flaws like the octave mech it is one of the most over complicated things I’ve ever had to reassemble and boy is it clunky until you dial it in. Again these are wonderful horns but let’s be honest.
Different Techs told me that one of the biggest problems with vintage horns is intonation. Vintage horns, especially American vintage saxes, more than often, can have bad intonations.
I've had many a Selmer player try my vintage H.Couf Superba 1 and the look on their face when they feel the action and hear the warm tone always is a joy. The Couf is a true players horn.
@@drwallysax Martin Magna tenor is a sweet ride. They are solder on tone holes so caution is in order but non stencil just like conn have nice tone hole. Martin I’m not rolled but necked down slightly on outside.
the thing about comparing saxophones is that a tiny leak here or there can make a huge difference in tone, and the different resonator designs make it hard to say that any difference is attributable to the actual body of the instrument.
Hi Doc Wally. Been awhile since I checked you out. Recorded and been playin' pro for over 50 years and been a tech. for 47. I always thought my '70 Super 20 was one of the best tenors ever made and played. One day a guy brought in a gold-plated Selmer model 22 Tenor in an alligator skin case for me to go over. When I asked if he knew what he had, he said his grandfather played professionally in Chicago in the 30's. After the repairs, I play tested it. It played better than mine. I repaired/played thousands of horns, cigar cutter, bal. act, mk vi, Yani., Keilworth, Couf. etc. I offered him my horn and $500, he wouldn't take it. He gave it to his 5th daughter. She destroyed it. Btw, I was told that in the last 2 yrs. Super 20 was in production, '74/'75, to cut costs they quit annealing the body tube. Had a '75 alto, and it always played like it had a rag stuck in it. An employee from UMI told me that.
The most relevant pearl of wisdom that came from this video is: 1. “Go Practice” The whole “tone” thing with different saxes is way overblown. The good doctor could play a horn bought on Amazon for $200 and sound EXACTLY the same (amazing, by the way) to 99.9% of the population. Like all industries, the Sax industry NEEDS you to think that your “result” will be instantly “better”. Hogwash. Any non-pro who pays $7k (or $1,000 for that matter) for a horn for anything other than an investment is an absolute sucker. Pay $300, get an old horn that has been guaranteed by a Dealer, invest the $6,700 and never look back.
First, flattery will get you everywhere. I kind of agree, BUT will also say some are much more fun to play! I think the beauty and subtle differences are all part of the fun of this amazing hobby we love!
I don't love the alto Bueschers, but don't hate them. My students are enjoying them as you can find amazing prices (not as collected as the Selmer, King, or Conns). If you love it, it's the best!
I brazilian music, I play an ordinary super king 20 with a brass neck , if I was offered to trade for the most expensive sax in the world I would fight the dealer. alias Charlie Parker played with a super king 20, believe me because "the bird knew things", until today they didn't do anything better.
I really enjoy both your Videos! 45 year player and sax repair person here - Super 20 is maybe the best. Cant afford one? get a Series 2 or even 3 Zephyr and get the neck silver plated. I'm also a fan of Baugnier/ Noblets horns.Real anecdote - was backing up a pianist along with a drummer on a series 3 Zephyr on a ballad , playing long tone "string" parts in the background. The drummer said he'd never heard a sax sound like that - It sounded like a French horn. The Cleveland to Super 20 Kings just had a versatility other horns dont have...
Anyone know what mouthpiece he used for this demonstration? I like his tone on all these vintage horns with it. I got a balanced action from Brian recently and am still experimenting around with what mouthpiece makes it and I speak best.
It's a vintage Brilhart Ebolin! Conn Selmer re-released them this year, but they're terrible. I mean bad. Luckily, I'm working with getasax create a new version that has the magic of the vintage models! Stay tuned, likely for sale this fall :)
I purchased an Ishimori Wood Stone AF New Vintage Unlacquered Alto Sax from Get-A-Sax last November and I absolutely love it! The feel of the horn and intonation is unlike any alto I have ever played. Several of my saxophone buddies have tried it and are saving up their dollars for one. Brian and Tyler were great to work with and really set-up the horn nicely before sending it out. I know it isn't vintage, Wally, but you really ought to try one - especially the unlacquered version.
All Ishimori products (saxes, mouthpieces, ligatures, reeds) get rave reviews. I wish I knew about the Ishimori store near where my wife use to work. Decades ago my American dollar could buy more than twice it can today. Congratulations on getting your Ishimori.
As somebody who only has vintage horns (Selmer, Conn, Buescher), I actually thought the Yamaha was the most focussed with an even, full tone over the piece you played. I’m just hoping none of my friends read this as I will never live it down that I have endorsed a Yamaha.
i play a 1941 buescher big b alto and i totally agree with the build quality being superb also vintage horns tend to have more characteristics in their tone which makes each vintage horn unique as opposed to a new yanigasaw horn which are known for being precisely identical from one another, while some players want to have consistency between horns these vintage horns will give you a unique and individualized sound that you wouldn’t hear in anyone else’s playing
i also have a 1937 martin committee 1 and it is literally the most solid toughest thing to have ever existed sometimes i think it might even be stronger than a tank
Wally, did you play the same mouthpiece for all of these? Weren't they playing different tip openings as a general rule in the 50s? Might explain why vintage horns have that spread sound vs more modern, right?
I was using a vintage brilhart ebolin. 1950s saw a wide variety of tip openings, I'm not sure I'd call it a general rule, but maybe? Mine is a .075" - like a 5* Brilhart or 6-7 on Meyer.
Which one should I buy!? Which one sounded best?
Didn't you already buy a Super 20 and took it back because you didn't like the neck strap hook?
Selmer Dorsey for me.
My ears and soul loved the Zephyr most. So smooth 🥰
I like the King Zeypher Special. Very nice core sound. Thanks for creating this video.
I play a Conn so I assumed I'd like the Conn best, but I honestly thought you sounded best on the 62.
The best saxophone in the world is the one you blow into.
If it's the King Zephyr, then yes ;)
And if you blow in god MKVI .. just perfekt
@@drwallysax king zephyr enjoyer? my already high respect for you has further increased
Great video Wally - I love that King Zephyr! Wow!
I disagree with so many of the premises here. Such as… new pro horns are not made as good as classic tank horns, or the idea that you have to adjust a new pro horn out of the box. Newer horns have more technology put into to for balance, intonation and response and that is a huge advantage.
These are all beautiful, wonderful horns but since most users who ask what horns to buy may not know what they like yet, a good recommendation is to buy something that is a slight price stretch for you, get comfortable with it, then continually test out horns at stores and eventually gravitate to what feels and sounds best for you. But remember, the mouthpiece may be even more important for the sound.
All great horns. It comes down to personal taste and the feel of the horn. By the look the Zephyr is georgeous, but for the sound i tend to the cigar cutter.
I agree completely. If the Cigar Cutter tone came out of the King (and with king keywork), I'd buy it in a heartbeat!
I’ve been waiting for a video like this. To hear you sound so similar on every sax, displaying your consistency of sound
It's certainly eye opening eh? To be fair, they did feel very different. Listening back.....very similar indeed!
@@drwallysax Dr Wally, you should do a modern vintage saxophone comparison with the popular options of today. I feel your input is valuable to a lot of ppl that support your channel.
The cigar cutter surprise me, that sax had a great and big sound. I think the cigar cutter and the zeyphr were the best.
Good luck with that choice!👍
The Zephyr is tempting me for sure!
That Super 20 is incredible.
I wants it!
All sounded great, But.. Cigar Cutter and Zephyr Special! Those two, for me, had a certain sound quality.
both very special! Hard to choose, I want them all! Hey, can I borrow $25,000?
Let me check my money tree!😂 Hmmm.. not enough water.. 🤔 completely bare. 😫 Btw, I dig the intro to the vid! 👏👏😂😂👍
I played on a Super 20 next to a Mark VI at a repair shop one time and could not put that 20 down. It was not for sale and I am honestly a hack anyway, so it was back to reality for me. I got a great deal on a 1960 Buffet SuperDynaction alto and have loved it ever since. :)
I have a 13*** Cigar Cutter. Retired it about 5 years ago after playing it for over 20 years. Needs a pro quality restoration. Haven't found a modern alto that sounds as sweet. My ear perked up when you played the King Zephyr.
Oh nice! Get that restored, it's a beauty! I agree with the King Zephyr - something special there!
I appreciate the suit. Very professional in a home setting. I love my 1968 Martin, take that over the Selmers on any given day.
I purchased an Ishimori Wood Stone AF New Vintage Unlacquered Alto Sax from Get-A-Sax last November and I absolutely love it! The feel of the horn and intonation is unlike any alto I have ever played. Several of my saxophone buddies have tried it and are saving up their dollars for one. Brian and Tyler were great to work with and really set-up the horn nicely before sending it out. I know it isn't vintage, Wally, but you really ought to try one - especially the unlacquered version.
Your, " go practice," is well taken. A horn plays what it is given. My Martin alto sounds like any of these great horns- if I certainly go practice. My Committee II, 1938, has the sweetest high D# - dead on the money every time. My 10 M; double receiver is a nice asset. That Conn artist... Doc, you and the Conn had the magic for me, Great Demo.
Thanks for this great video. I've always played vintage horns, mostly because they were affordable. That said, I also love the history. I've got an alto Buescher Aristocrat 1936 and a Holton 241 tenor 1947. Love them both.
It's such a fun thing to own a bit of musical history!
@@drwallysax
Greetings Doc…
As far as Yamaha altos go, do you think an old overhauled Yamaha 62 purple logo would be better or worse than say the newest yas-62 that has been properly COA’d ?? (forget about price for a moment for the primary or initial answer).
Thanks! Your channel always works for me!😉
Yeah, I know, go practice!
👨🏻🎷🥳
Thank you Dr. Wally for celebrating these beautiful works of art! I've always gravitated to vintage horns, probably because of the price at first, but because of their incomparable tone and beauty. If you want to buy one, I think I would vote for the Kings. They are spectacularly beautiful to look at, and their tone and playability is awesome too.
These all sound great -- but I'm sticking with the new horns. I didn't personally like any vintage horns at all
Another Great Video By the World’s Greatest Dr. Wally. Thank you. One question: what mouthpiece/reed combination did you use? Thanks
I’m a personal fan of the conn. It has great edge but has a dark element to it too. Great all rounder. Also the super 20 is great. 3 for me was the Yamaha
I kind of want them all!
Without being in the same room, it is hard to say which one sounds the best. You sound great on all of them, but if I had to pick one for you, I really liked what you played on the King Zeypher.
I would love to get a Super 20. Played one once and it felt like wild horses and I had to rein them in. I love my Radio Improved. Has some serious idiosyncrasies but it's me now. I like the new Eastman horns a lot also.
These are all for tenor. I imagine there is some difference for alto possibly. Also love the Ladyface.
I want them all! Know what you mean about the wild horses. It's like those guys who buy Lamborghinis and total it the first day when they mash the gas!
Ok…that was awesome. There’s a place for each of these colors in the crayon box of saxophones! What a testimony to the craftsmen of yore.
You are a fortunate man to be able to play and feel these remarkable beasts!
No way did I know that you were going to feature the King, but I'm not surprised. I play a 1954 King Zephyr tenor, the basic version of the fancier Super 20, and the thing simply sings... and, yes, it's meticulously made. Coincidentally, many decades ago, I spent a lot of time in Cleveland Ohio and worked less than a mile from the King factory and had no idea of its existence. What a Sax!
Robert here again - note on ergonomics For small to medium hands its hard to beat a Selmer balanced action horn , MkVI, Yamaha, Yanigasawa. This is especially true for Tenor. For Med large to large hands, the balanced action Keywork - off set tone holes - is cumbersome and can be down right painful. OK, apparently Marcel Mule was the exception. I have large hands and have given up the idea of playing a Super Balanced action horn. I have tried MkVI and VIIs several times. For me its a King or Martin Tenor. The Conn 10 M is somewhere in between - in line tone holes, but your R hand is still slightly cocked to the Left of center. The old Selmer Super and Balanced horns - Cigar cutter ( those before The Super Balanced action) - those with the bell keys on the inside of the bell - had in line tone holes and are the nearest thing to a Mark VI for people like me.
i have large hands and my 1952 Selmer Super Balanced Action tenor is perfection.
That was a great, high quality video. I really enjoyed it. Thank you Dr. Wally!
The reverb is a more important variable to listener in this vid, Doc. These saxes all sound great. Brands and models are personal preference. I played a 1976 Mark 6 tenor and a 1950 SBA alto for years. I tried a mint YTS 61 in early 80s. Sold the Mark and never looked back.... still my no. 1 until recent procurement of brand new Custom Z tenor. Bought it to match a mint Custom Z alto I got 2 yrs ago. The Yamahas seem less fragile. My sleeper horns are the newer Buffet 400 series. I drove to SaXQUEST in St. Louis to score the new tenor. I was seriously considering a new/mint Yamaha soprano for the Triifecta.
We A/B all the Yam. models and ranked against my closet queen 2007 Mad Meg Cannonball. Played and sounded too close to justify the cost IMHO. Saxquest and staff are really worth a visit. Keep swinging for the fences, Professor.
Enjoyed the video, my ear heard lots of contrasting sounds. I was really surprised by the Yamaha, in a good way, and you can get killer deals on those horns. My favorites were the King and the Zephyr. I picked up a Super 20 1A during the pandemic. I was floored with the sound I got initially and figured I could get around the ergonomics. Turns out it’s a bigger deal then I’d like it to me. Currently considering selling it to move into a MVI, but I feel like I’m somewhat committing a crime. I’d imagine the 1A is very similar in feel to the Zephyr. Can you describe the difference in ergos between the Zep and this King? My biggest issue is the bubbled F# & G# keys, and low pinky keys, of course.
They Zephyr had less punch. Still very freeblowing, but not overly focused. It's like a bag of musical hornets.
No Buffet Crampon super dynaction or S1 ? No Hohner Président ? No Pierret Super Artist or Compétition ? No Keilwerth Toneking ? There's all another World outside USA , you know ???
I am owner of a Tenor King Super Twenty serie 349.2..made in Cleveland..Ohio.😊 nice instrumente
Thanks so much for posting this. I’m a huge Yamaha fan, so the Purple Logo is the obvious choice. Keep up the great video content! You’re fun to watch!
Awww, well that is very kind. I love the early Yamahas too, I still have the original 1990s neck for my 875 - much sweeter than the current models :)
That's my horn. Purple logo 62. Bought it new and still happy.
Yup I also bought a new YTS62 back in 1986 and still playing it.
I like the sound you got with the Dorsey and I really liked the tone of the Cigar Cutter but I slightly preferred the King Zeyphr Special, I really like it's smooth sound and it is a sax I'd like to play one day if I get the chance.
3:18 - Build quality? Made better? While I have never played a vintage sax yet, I have one word, Yanagisawa. I have never once had any issues with the build quality with my Yanagisawa AW02. It has never once went out of adjustment or needed repairs in the 3 and a half years I had it. Jay Metcafle from Better Sax said the same and said from a repairman's perspective, they are a pleasure to work on.
we'll see how it holds up after 50 years
I've owned the Yanigisawa AW10 (it's in a few of my youtube videos). It's fine, but I had a few issues with rollers and lacquer quality.
Good video idea.
Vinatage instruments almost always
Paul Desmond saxophone. A Selmer Super Balanced Action alto, (a 1949 super action)
I tried a couple, did not love them which surprised me! Given my adoration for Bud Shank and Desmond (who both used the Balanced Action) I had intended to buy one. Alas, the mark vi felt more comfortable in many respects.
Buescher Big B. Does it for me. Much under rated. 1940’s vintage. All day long
I have access to buy a King Zephyr series II, SN 379***. How good is it compared with the Zephyr Special or the Super 20? How expensive could it be fine?
My Martin Indiana with a Vandoren T7 mouthpiece and a #3 Fibracell is the best sound. I have owned a number of great saxes (but not a King). However, I have bought a Yamaha 62 because it is "modern" and does everything everyone says about it. At the age of 80 I am done with vintage, I think. It's the player mostly, not the horn.
Plastic screws, softer materials, a Selmer Supreme (7000 USD tenor)out of the factory that needs work... these statements are BS and biased.
And although it is true that some vintage horns are build sturdier, a 100 year old sax also has 100 years of wear and tear, which makes it more likely to go out of alignment or in need of maintenance. I own several Selmer SA80II's a Yamaha, played King Super 20's, Mark VI's and Committee's and it basically comes down to each horn and how they have been treated in the past.
I loved the sound of the Dorsey model and the sound of the Cigar Cutter model most even though, the two sounds were distinctively different.
Dr. Wally: Is it possible for you to get ahold of a Jupiter JTS1100SGQ tenor sax? I would love to hear what you think of it. I have been unable to find any kind of review or test of it.
Personnally, i prefere my c melody selmer modele 28 pre SSS. Or my baritone selmer modèle 22, they're problem but you play on the first baritone by selmer and it's fun,
I love my couesnon c melody too
Loved them all for different reasons, but overall, the Purple Logo reigns supreme.
no Martins, SMLs, Dolnets, Buffets? Hmmmm...
Only. the. best.
Regardless of which sax you played on, Dr Wally, the core sound is still you with very subtle differences. I absolutely love your sweet round tone with that nice overtones. I wish I can have your sound.
You sound very good on all of them! ( not much of help I guess..) But the Zephyr sounded warmer or more mellow.. very “round” sound sort of. Nice! Had a hard time telling the other apart just by listening ( even if I have good headphones)
First, thanks :)
Second, I agree, I sound like me on all of them. BUT they feel very different for sure!
@@drwallysax Isn’t it very often that way with all our gear. To a listener it sounds just about the same, but for the player there can be a huge difference in feel and respons. And that can make a big difference in how much, and what, you play and practice. And how inspired you get as a player. Which one gave you the best feel? Good luck with whatever horn you go for!
@@matsmanteatern698 VERY VERY true. I wish I could have spent more time with each, hard to say which felt the best! If the Cigar Cutter were a bit prettier, I might say that one!
I think the Yamaha was my favorite, idk I just like Yamahas. I do love this format, testing horns against one another just to hear the subtleties.
I always love a good ol' Yammy. Was a super fun day for sure!
Why can't I find Dr. Wally's live jazz UA-cam channel? Not even something in Spotify?
Check out the Sononauts, my band! ua-cam.com/video/7BpbY3Fwg8Y/v-deo.html
The saxes in the thumbnails are not the same as in the video, but I think one of them is a silver plate conn transitional which I’m now the proud owner of!
Those are beautiful! And yes, I outsourced the thumbnail 😉
I'd really like to hear some older French instruments alongside these, like the SML Model D and Buffet Super Dynaction, to hear the difference. Interesting vid!!
If I do round two, I'll see what my dealer can dig up! Happy practicing!
Don't buy the Selmer supreme. Not worth it.
Hello doc. Did you know the late Bob Ackerman? He was big into vintage horns...was also a great player.
I've heard the name, but never had the pleasure of meeting him, unfortunately. We're you acquainted with him?
@@drwallysax Yes he lived in NJ for many years, and I used to play with him from time to time. He's way past my level though...
Great video! Would love to see one on vintage tenors
I have a '52 SBA, will never sell
Oh boy, Dr. Wally has GAS again!
Just a video :)
What about the Martin saxaphone
No Bueschers or Martins?
Great video! Love Get a sax guys . Wally love your sound!
Thanks so much!
Wanna trade?? I have a vintage Conn silver plated circa around 1914.. sounds like im squeezing a sick goose. might be the mouth-piece which is the original, fits the instrument snug like the glove did on 'The Juice'. other mouth pieces are too loose. Im puzzled.. please advise or shall i just drop a duce..and just keep improving bc its the user here?
Please don't drop a deuce.
I got. an incredible god Selmer MKVI from Willy Zumbrunnen…Saxprofi and Organisator for the Jazzfestivals In Montreux… he was playing the MKVI for decades and always give it to the best Saxdoc in Swizz … now it‘s my best Sax in the Studio … Yamaha 62 ( the old one ) was always a Great Horn too but the MK is on top … Vibrations. Flexible.Sounds and i feel the sax like i Never did … a sax Made for the Hands oft the Artist
Flagrant omission of Buescher (and Martin). For example, the 400 TopHatCane model rivals any for sound, build, and sheer beauty.
You make all of these sing, but I LOVE your sound on the Super 20. That was my second horn acquired in 6th grade ('vintage' is a relative thing I suppose), I kick myself now for letting it go 44yrs ago, won't make the same mistake with my Dorsey! Off to play post-vacay catch up on Doxy...
You've got a Dorsey!!!!!
@@drwallysax yes, you already know that! Just as lovely but not nearly as pretty as the one you played here. My long gone Super 20 was beautifully pristine with silver neck and keys, but did not have full pearls. Your humble Studio student, Dave B
@@dsb2375 DAVE! I don't always know the youtube user names!
@@drwallysax yeah, as an infrequent UA-camr I was surprised by my name as well! Now that I’m playing out more, hope to be looking soon for a daily travel horn to give the Dorsey a break now and then…
I have owned a 1931 Cigar Cutter since 1982. Never played another tenor. People constantly comment on its great, great sound.
yeah seriously. Why pay crazy money for a new saxophone when with vintage saxes even top of the line pro instruments with heavy gold or silver plate and gorgeous engraving done by hand using techniques probably unknown today can be had for pennies on the dollar? On top of that, half the time the sax has a decent vintage mouthpiece or two just sitting in the case? it's lunacy, frankly.
Obviously you're more likely to have to pay for service. But even new horns come with issues straight out the factory.
Thanks for putting this together & sharing, Wally. Some terrific sounding vintage horns to enjoy listening to. As more of a lyrical player, I tended to come back to the Conn Artist after listening to the "competition" several times, buddy.
Yamaha 62
You should try out a Buffet SuperDynaction alto. I think it has as nice a sound as you can find. It may be a bit newer than even the Super 20 but the sound is dark and beautiful. That said, I play on a 1964 Super 20. It has some intonation issues but a very nice sound. FWIW I was at the MusikMesse in Frankfurt, GE and trying out various horns. This was the early '90's. Among others I played several baritone saxes and decided I liked the Yamaha best because it had a smooth, dark sound. I began talking with another guy who fell in love with the Selmer because it had lots of edge to its sound. Interesting that we both felt the same way about the 2 horns but chose differently because of the sound we wanted. EDIT: Again FWIW, I tried out Super 20's in high school and found that the palm keys were much easier to use than on other saxes. My tenor is a fabulous Super 20. Both my Kings have the silver bell.
Awesome presentation; and what beautiful horns!
Hey Steve! We need to coffee and catch up soon.
Absolutely! I’ll be back in the hood on August 15.
There are so many outstanding horns. Thanks for showing vintage as a great option. Love the art with the wine-tasting type analysis. Choosing a horn is so personal. I need to produce my sound and choose a horn I don’t have to fight much to deliver. 50 years ago, Mark VI was love at first sight (sound). Others will keep on looking.
The only reason shops push vintage is because their profit margins on used and vintage are great. The build quality is not better than modern with the big boys and I would argue the build quality on vintage at times is worse than modern I have seen many vintage horns where the metal literally bends under monomial pressure like a number of Conn New Wonders I’ve seen. I love a good Super 20 but let’s be honest it has design flaws like the octave mech it is one of the most over complicated things I’ve ever had to reassemble and boy is it clunky until you dial it in. Again these are wonderful horns but let’s be honest.
Well, first your playing is so pleasant to listen to. I thought the King Zeyphr Special and the Conn Artist Model were the champs.
Wait… Get-a-Sax is in Winston Salem!?!!??
I need to visit my in-laws more often!
Different Techs told me that one of the biggest problems with vintage horns is intonation. Vintage horns, especially American vintage saxes, more than often, can have bad intonations.
I've had many a Selmer player try my vintage H.Couf Superba 1 and the look on their face when they feel the action and hear the warm tone always is a joy. The Couf is a true players horn.
Hi how are you bro I want to tell you something and you also know saxophone a lot and why don't we do a commercial together.
haha - love the skit
Skit?! That was how it happened, Derek!
@@drwallysax shhh we cant reveal the clandestine operations at foot
@@SaxSpy oh, of course....just kidding, good skit eh? *initiates secret saxo-nerd handshake*
If i werent a poor engineering student, i would buy the Conn Artist just for the name alone xD
Muito bom, não sei se ja tem vídeos falando do YAMAHA 32, se tiver deixa o link, difícil achar vídeo sobre ele, Abraços desde o Brazil
Everhauled an early 6m with rolled tone haul for a friend. Great horn. Also love the kings
That is some beauty right there… I admit, I got a thang for that Zephyr Special…
Never met a Martin I did not like. Had a Hilton bar with three octave pips. Played great. Looked like old plumbing
I've never played a Martin. Whenever I go see my dealer, he manages to steer me toward more expensive models ;)
@@drwallysax Martin Magna tenor is a sweet ride. They are solder on tone holes so caution is in order but non stencil just like conn have nice tone hole. Martin I’m not rolled but necked down slightly on outside.
…back when they made things better…
Yeah. Right.
Yamaha.. best consistency and quality..
I’m shocked that there was no Buescher. Shocked I say!
the thing about comparing saxophones is that a tiny leak here or there can make a huge difference in tone, and the different resonator designs make it hard to say that any difference is attributable to the actual body of the instrument.
What, no Couf/Keilwerth?
Hi Doc Wally. Been awhile since I checked you out. Recorded and been playin' pro for over 50 years and been a tech. for 47. I always thought my '70 Super 20 was one of the best tenors ever made and played. One day a guy brought in a gold-plated Selmer model 22 Tenor in an alligator skin case for me to go over. When I asked if he knew what he had, he said his grandfather played professionally in Chicago in the 30's. After the repairs, I play tested it. It played better than mine. I repaired/played thousands of horns, cigar cutter, bal. act, mk vi, Yani., Keilworth, Couf. etc. I offered him my horn and $500, he wouldn't take it. He gave it to his 5th daughter. She destroyed it.
Btw, I was told that in the last 2 yrs. Super 20 was in production, '74/'75, to cut costs they quit annealing the body tube. Had a '75 alto, and it always played like it had a rag stuck in it. An employee from UMI told me that.
I had a 1969 Super 20, really didn't sing. most beautiful horn I've ever owned, such a shame..
the yamaha sounds best by far-no contest
A lot of beautiful noises going on there
10M is the best !!!!!
I have a 1937 10M. There's nothing like it!
I haven’t even watched yet and I’m excited
Wonderful - thank you!
The most relevant pearl of wisdom that came from this video is:
1. “Go Practice”
The whole “tone” thing with different saxes is way overblown. The good doctor could play a horn bought on Amazon for $200 and sound EXACTLY the same (amazing, by the way) to 99.9% of the population. Like all industries, the Sax industry NEEDS you to think that your “result” will be instantly “better”. Hogwash. Any non-pro who pays $7k (or $1,000 for that matter) for a horn for anything other than an investment is an absolute sucker.
Pay $300, get an old horn that has been guaranteed by a Dealer, invest the $6,700 and never look back.
First, flattery will get you everywhere. I kind of agree, BUT will also say some are much more fun to play! I think the beauty and subtle differences are all part of the fun of this amazing hobby we love!
Hello, nice comparison: What do you think about the buescher 400 top hat&cane? It's my favoriten vintage model with specific sound 50s Ben Webster etc
I don't love the alto Bueschers, but don't hate them. My students are enjoying them as you can find amazing prices (not as collected as the Selmer, King, or Conns). If you love it, it's the best!
I brazilian music, I play an ordinary super king 20 with a brass neck , if I was offered to trade for the most expensive sax in the world I would fight the dealer. alias Charlie Parker played with a super king 20, believe me because "the bird knew things", until today they didn't do anything better.
I've always loved the king, such a classic :)
I really enjoy both your Videos! 45 year player and sax repair person here - Super 20 is maybe the best. Cant afford one? get a Series 2 or even 3 Zephyr and get the neck silver plated. I'm also a fan of Baugnier/ Noblets horns.Real anecdote - was backing up a pianist along with a drummer on a series 3 Zephyr on a ballad , playing long tone "string" parts in the background. The drummer said he'd never heard a sax sound like that - It sounded like a French horn. The Cleveland to Super 20 Kings just had a versatility other horns dont have...
Lot of colors in that horn for sure.
Anyone know what mouthpiece he used for this demonstration? I like his tone on all these vintage horns with it.
I got a balanced action from Brian recently and am still experimenting around with what mouthpiece makes it and I speak best.
It's a vintage Brilhart Ebolin! Conn Selmer re-released them this year, but they're terrible. I mean bad. Luckily, I'm working with getasax create a new version that has the magic of the vintage models! Stay tuned, likely for sale this fall :)
so far the conn is the best i heard
I purchased an Ishimori Wood Stone AF New Vintage Unlacquered Alto Sax from Get-A-Sax last November and I absolutely love it! The feel of the horn and intonation is unlike any alto I have ever played. Several of my saxophone buddies have tried it and are saving up their dollars for one. Brian and Tyler were great to work with and really set-up the horn nicely before sending it out. I know it isn't vintage, Wally, but you really ought to try one - especially the unlacquered version.
All Ishimori products (saxes, mouthpieces, ligatures, reeds) get rave reviews. I wish I knew about the Ishimori store near where my wife use to work. Decades ago my American dollar could buy more than twice it can today. Congratulations on getting your Ishimori.
As somebody who only has vintage horns (Selmer, Conn, Buescher), I actually thought the Yamaha was the most focussed with an even, full tone over the piece you played. I’m just hoping none of my friends read this as I will never live it down that I have endorsed a Yamaha.
ahahahaha! Yamahas are fantastic.
i play a 1941 buescher big b alto and i totally agree with the build quality being superb also vintage horns tend to have more characteristics in their tone which makes each vintage horn unique as opposed to a new yanigasaw horn which are known for being precisely identical from one another, while some players want to have consistency between horns these vintage horns will give you a unique and individualized sound that you wouldn’t hear in anyone else’s playing
i also have a 1937 martin committee 1 and it is literally the most solid toughest thing to have ever existed sometimes i think it might even be stronger than a tank
Wally, did you play the same mouthpiece for all of these? Weren't they playing different tip openings as a general rule in the 50s? Might explain why vintage horns have that spread sound vs more modern, right?
I was using a vintage brilhart ebolin. 1950s saw a wide variety of tip openings, I'm not sure I'd call it a general rule, but maybe? Mine is a .075" - like a 5* Brilhart or 6-7 on Meyer.