Ending the Maxx "C" debate? | Joshua Schmidt talks Yu-Gi-Oh!
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- Опубліковано 5 лют 2025
- Hi! Joshua Schmidt here. As my first UA-cam video I wanted to give my opinion on one of Yu-Gi-Oh's oldest and most controversial cards: Maxx "C"!
Do you like Maxx "C" in Master Duel? Should it come back in the TCG as well? Let me know your opinion in the comments and subscribe to the channel for more content in the future!
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#YuGiOh #TCG #MasterDuel #MaxxC
![Yu-Gi-Oh! - Maxx "C" [Hand Trap] Archetype](/img/n.gif)
Thank you guys for all the feedback! Also sorry the audio is a bit desync'ed, that wasn't there when I edited the video, apparently UA-cam screwed that up, i'll try to find out why that happened and make sure it doesn't happen next time! :)
Love the video Joshua, I remember your second place finish with pure Orcust at YCS London and you’ve inspired me to play Yugioh not only competitively but to play Orcust as well!
@@thatyugiohplayer4374 Thank you, really appreciate the kind words!
actually changed my mind on this topic great points and well explained
As a longtime Infernity specialist, if your deck CAN'T deck out the opponent after they drop Maxx "C", you DESERVE to lose hahaha
It’s kinda neat how OCG has started doing this. Crossout and Called are hit more and more
Make a new card that either (for every special of course)
A. Burns for half ATK of specialed monster. (kinda like a reverse Spooky Dogwood) Could be really good, but still a -1. (I'll call this Burning ''C'')
B. Draws for only Extra Deck summons, which may also just be too good. (I'll call this Midd ''C'')
C. Mulligans instead of draws. (So draw 1, shuffle 1 back in deck) (I'll call this Sculpting ''C'')
D. If opponent Specials a monster, draw 2 cards. Just a one time thing. (I'll call this Pot of ''C'')
I know its not really a video to change Maxx C, but it could be nice to have an homage to Maxx C, that are good, but not as broken as Maxx ''C'' is.
Sculpting C + crossout and called by the grave ban would be great
B is the best fix i've ever seen. Brilliant. also, if it could only be used if you dont control extra deck monsters, and you can't special summon from the extra deck that turn.
@@BrandonPaulLee so you just hate the extra deck haha
@@aleksaa24 nah, I just like the previous comments design philosophy
I vote for Pot of "C", seems fun
The most toxic thing about Maxx “C” is that they can be dropped even on turn 2. Imagine facing full Drytron board and they maxx c you
My friend, I think you lost before they Maxx C'ed you 😂
@@Delimon007That's not the point. The point is that they already won because of the deck and now that it is your turn they double down and Maxx c you so you. It's like if someone pulls off no cost rhongo and then proceeds to not end the game because what can you do to 6 material rhongo?
@@KillaManReaper2 you gonna lose anyways whether maxx c is banned or not whereas if it's legal and you got it on your opening hand as a turn 2 player, you have a better chance
@@dyrothobeelost ass maxx c player
@@dyrothobeeI have had very winnable games against snake eyes, but they drop maxx c, losing me the game.
i agree with almost everything what you said my personal problem with maxx C is that maxx C is the only handtrap in the game where you dont have to have any knowlege about your opponent. for example you cant use your ash or imperm or veiler on first opertunity. You must have some "knowlege" about what your opponent or his deck before you use it so you can benefit from this handtrap. But maxx C is another level you just can use maxx C and its everytime ok. When he resolves then you end your turn or simple loose the next turn.
The OCG is actually kind of moving into the direction of having Maxx C with no Crossout or Called by, with the former currently being at 1 and the latter being at 2.
Because they are smart over there.
Ash blossom is a huge issue, it should be banned as well. Maxx c should be part of the master rule 6.
Every player automatically draws when opponent performs any summon. Then no more unbreakable boards
@@NeostormXLMAX so summon 35-55 monster will ftk everyone? seems balanced
@@NeostormXLMAX insane take
@@NeostormXLMAX litteraly makes combo decks unplayable
I'm so glad you mention that Called By and Crossout should be banned. These cards promote insane solitaire gameplay where you don't have to care about opponent interaction.
As long as Maxx c exists, these cards should be at 3, they are what you could call "Maxx C hate"
@@jacobortiz7087I think crossout actually kinda balances itself. Most of the time its not that good aside from in a few circumstances e.g. branded to beat ash. It has a huge opportunity cost in going 2nd a lot of the time since it eats into precious none engine real estate. (Having to play ash over more impactful options)
@@jacobortiz7087not really. Maxx c resolving more often actually encourages you to build you deck around it. Listen to what Josh says. If maxx c resolved all the time the game would be different. The problem is it doesn’t resolve all the time and we build our decks around special summoning, so called by the grave and cross out makes your choices feel like they don’t matter, when if you knew maxx c would resolve you would build a deck that doesn’t worry about maxx c
I don't disagree with making Handtraps and the idea of stopping unfair combo decks is great.
Maxx "C" however is a Toxic Card by design because it forces your opponent into a lose/lose scenario as no matter what kind of combo deck they are playing. And since 90% of cards in the game do Special summons Maxx C becomes a "Why would you ever not run this" card like Pot of Greed.
yet in master duel and ocg lists, there are hundreds of decks that don't run maxx c, like any trap decks like eldlich labrynth subterror altergeist etc
and all pendulum decks like zefra endymion etc.
and the winner of the second duelist cup in master duel where everyone was running maxx c apparently is endymion.
@@NeostormXLMAX so your claim is that the only way to dela with maxx C is to play some form of stun deck.
if that doesnt tell you maxx C gotta go i dunno what else ot tell you.
I agree with your points, the only thing i think important to keep in mind, is how the fair combo decks, what I’d refer to as midrange, usuallt have midground plays to strongly lower the impact of maxx c. In current yugioh, if let’s say orcust, or salamangreat got max c’d, most likely, they’d still be able to make minimal plays, so maybe 2 extra draws for the opponent, for a more defensive play. I think dpe is a good example as a strong midground play if decks like these were to get maxx c’d, but there’s absolutely other strategies. In master duel, I’ll get maxx c’d on girsu’s second effect, and I’ll still go link spider, galatea, banish knight mare and simply set up crescendo, and even though the opponent gets 3 draws in this situation, there’s absolutely still ability to win, considering decks like these strongly benefit the lack of turns that combo enables, because they moreso work with a small combo, but usually solid follow up. Also important to consider, midrange decks are able to play a wider line up of defensive cards, so as long as you play for value, you can still absolutely win the game, through max c, which on master duel has happened plenty of times. Great video💯
Absolutely, it's a great quality of certain midrange decks to be able to still do something under Maxx C, similar to how Tri can set up a DDL with just one summon. What I would like to see is games going over multiple turns so you can wait and try to find openings to combo off on a turn where they don't Maxx C you.
Even if they only get 2 cards, that's literally the same effect as Pot of Greed which has been banned for years. Card advantage is very important, especially since 1 card combos are so prevalent
I think a recent example for me is getting hit by maxx c and just going meh and go into phoenix geqrfried and tripollousa. I completely stopped a drytron players strat despite having 2 starting hands to work with.
Maxx c is broken, but not a one card game ender everyone treats them as. An established board and a well timed negate can end a turn. Specially now in the advent of hard once per turns.
@@nekoluxuria7721 juste because you're playing that kind of deck doesn't mean maxx c isn't toxic.That's a garbage take my friend.It's a matter of pov.Sometime i'm getting maxx c'd and i don't care,sometimes it's auto lose,it depends man.Doesn't change the fact that maxx c is absolutely toxic.
@@fdmz2537 thing is, that's not a garbage take. that's a very good example. I am using a deck that heavily relies on a lot of special summons against a deck that plusses hard out of it, or in other words being hit by maxx C turn 1 with the deck I was using is almost a death sentence. a garbage example would be using flundereeze as the prime example of why maxx C isn't good. so great job on the false equivalence there buddy.
also you know why maxx C isn't the one card end all? outside of the fact that people run cards that intrinsically outs maxx C anyways as they out other stuff besides maxx C. almost all modern decks play multiple cards which are HOPT. they are still at the mercy of RNG even with maxx C. it ultimately is up to the player whether they respectthe maxx C or not.
I can't even decide if I like or dislike Maxx C. On one hand, resolving Maxx C against PK Rhongo or Adamancipator has saved me countless games where it would otherwise be an insta-scoop. On the other hand, facing an opponent who instantly drops Maxx C on my turn when they have a 4+ negates board is the shittiest thing that could happen in a game.
I don't think Maxx C should be banned but I also think it could use a stricter restrictions, something like "can only be activated while you control no card" or "you can only draw 4 cards by this effect" or "can only be activated if your opponent has summoned X or more monsters this turn".
Wish granted. It's called "Nibiru" and it does exactly that.
@@joanaguayoplanell4912 You know what? That's actually a good point, and given how little we see of Nibiru these days, "after X summon" just doesn't work.
Something along the line of "but you can't draw if the total number of cards in your hand and field would exceed your opponent's" would probably be more appropriate.
@@namelessanonymous2913 that was mostly because Gigantic Splight blocks it, and Tears all float. With those decks hit, Nibiru has shot back to the top.
@@joanaguayoplanell4912 Still format-dependent at most though. A lot of the best decks in recent memory (and in the OCG right now) either don't care about it or simply can get to an out within 5 summons anyway.
I'm looking more to something as splashable as ash, imperm, or called by. They may do less in some formats, but never straight unplayable.
This is a fantastic take. Joshua Schmidt strikes again.
I know I'm super late to the party here, but as someone spearheading the #BanMaxxC movement, I'd like to chime in with my 2 cents an perhaps get your opinion.
You mentioned in the video that Maxx C being broken isn't necessarily bad, and while I agree on principal, I think there comes a point where a card is SO broken, so universally good, that it becomes a must-include in every deck; and that's bad.
I'd argue that variance is an important part of the game. Having every single deck play the same staples year after year would get boring and predictable. That's a big reason why we have a ban list and new releases in the first place; to foster change in the game and keep things interesting.
Historically, the reason cards like Pot of Greed and Painful Choice were banned, were because they were so optimal that every deck would play them if they could. Doesn't matter what the format is like or what the meta is, having a free +1 or a Foolish Burial for 4 is ALWAYS good, so those cards would see play in every deck unless banned.
I believe Maxx C falls into that category. Because it doesn't JUST help against combo decks. It becomes Pot of Greed against any deck that summons twice, meaning it's optimal to play even in slower formats dominated by control decks like Eldlich.
It's been 11 months since this video, and in that time Maxx C has never stopped being a staple. We've seen that despite the meta shifting to include decks like Runick and Branded that only special summon a couple times per turn, Maxx C has remained a must-include 3-of in nearly every deck.
Ash Blossom is very strong and sees a lot of play, but it isn't ALWAYS the best choice. In the TCG we've seen its playability rise and fall with different metas. Sometimes other hand traps are better. But on Master Duel Maxx C has remained the single best card in the format, and because stopping it is so important, Ash has remained a must-play as well, along with called-by.
This has lead to the format growing very stale, in my eyes. One year in, and 1/3rd of games are still being decided by the same Maxx C mini game, and that doesn't seem likely to change anytime soon. As long as decks special summon, Maxx C will be the best card to play.
I think we need cards LIKE Maxx C to balance the game, but Maxx C itself is too strong. It's like Pot of Greed; a good idea, but it needs some restrictions to balance it.
Just as there are now dozens of different Pot-Of-X cards that give players a +1 but add some cost or restriction to make it interesting, I'd love to see a bunch of Maxx C re-trains that accomplish the same goal of punishing combo, but which have some cost or restrictions that prevent them from being the most optimal card in every deck.
I do agree on most of this. Even IF a card is “healthy” while being broken (not saying Maxx C is that, but for the sake of the argument), it being part of the metagame for way too long makes it appear stale and boring.
This is one of the things I like about the idea of a rotation system where certain staples can rotate in and out of the format to make it more exciting. Of course the banlist “emulates” this but most of these cards tend to just be lost on the banlist forever or a very long time atleast. But rotation has a bunch of downsides too and Yugioh is at a point where I feel like its nearly impossible to implement it when we’ve not done it for over 20 years, just an interesting thought experiment.
Also I will say after having played with Maxx C in Master Duel for a while now I think that in its current state the card simply isnt healthy. I did say this in the video but I think the only way Maxx C could ever be considered okay is if the card changes how we pick and build our decks, leading to slower strategies being more popular due to the sheer existence of Maxx C. While Ash, Gamma, Called By and Crossout are so widely available, Maxx C doesnt force anyone to play a slower, less combo heavy deck, it just means you got to play some of these cards and then beat the Maxx C minigame which is quite the frustrating dynamic in my opinion. So while I still think without ways to counter Maxx C it could be interesting to see how it impacts deck building, that doesnt seem to be a realistic scenario so i’d rather see the card gone at this point.
@@JoshuaSchmidtYGO Thanks for taking the time to respond with such detailed insights. I appreciate it.
My main problem is that people can build a giant board, and then play Maxx C on top of that. If it had a restriction where it can only be played it you controlled less cards than your opponent it would be balanced.
Decks that build giant boards win in those scenarios even without Maxx C. Also Maxx C in the format generally makes these types of decks less likely to be chosen by players.
It's the worse feeling ever😂 I just watched you combo for 15 minutes, decided to try and crack your 15 negate board.... And you Maxx C during my phase. It just feels like the most hypocritical thing ever
I mean we also have to ask the question of if someone would want to even play a format where maxx c was at 3 and always resolved.
It punishes every deck that even attempts to go into the extra. Long yuan is a draw 3 off maxx c, Generaider boss stage is a draw 3, eldlich going sanguine + huaq/conq is a draw 2.
The format would pretty much be stun bullshit or a tier 0 format of whatever new deck cheats its way past maxx c.
Nah, it would be a format with a lot of back and forth and a lot of handtraps
Sounds more like u ignored how he brought up the point that we have precident from formats before maxx c counters.
Allot of decks can adapt to max c, i know some of the exact changes i would make to my branded/dragon maid deck. It would make traps a thing and i think back and forth would be more a thing, i just think max c is good overall, any time someone plays max c the games end up being much more back and forth.
You are a legend bro no need to introduce yourself everybody knows your great yugioh history and good luck on the channel
Great and humble intro at the start man. I'm super interested in Maxx "C" as I've taken a very long break from yugioh (like start of GX era) and came back with master duel. I have a friend that's been a consistent yugioh player in the TCG for at least a decade and maxx C is regularly a point of fascination in meta and ruling talks we have these days since we both have very different experiences with(out) it.
Most of the comments here show me that most people cannot understand the nuance of what Joshua is trying to expound upon here. Most players in the current game were not around for the initial release of Maxx "C" and some for its lifetime in the card pool. The game has gotten to a point in which cards like Mystic Mine are necessary to combat unfair turn one ending boards. His thoughts are very valid and should be pondered upon instead of saying it's a bad take or he has a warped viewpoint. Joshua has had more success than 99% of players in this game. A rebuttal should be more than just, my old 3yr old deck won't survive Maxx C. Think more, put the work in.
So for a problem that Konami created you make a bigger problem with a another card to summon all of his ending board too? This is never ending BS
What if i special summoned two monsters only and my opponent drew 2 cards because of it? It's still unfair for me lol
well ,woth all due respect,that's a shitty comment mate,i respect joshua's opinion but i strongly disagree with his take,btw i've won many wcq and i ended up top 16 in national cup in france twice.I'm almost always top 32 in any ycs,i've benn around playing that game since early end of gx,early 5ds,so what's your point ? one does not needs to be that good of a yugioh player to understand the fact that maxx c is absolutely toxic.Read my take and we can discuss it after.
@@fdmz2537keep seething, i hope konami releases the traptricks structure deck with maxx cs.
Watching this shortly after the Fuwalos Discussion stream.
Still very interestin and crazy, how much better you have become in making videos. Keep it up :)
Great video, I really like your thoroughness in your points for this discussion and the questions/examples you brought up for it. I think something that could help your future videos is adding background music so that there isn't bits of deadspace when you pause while talking.
i find it funny that a TCG exclusive card is banned in the TCG while it has become the signature card of the OCG. My issue is on the card design itself, it's as if Maxx C was the necessary evil because Konami effed up in the first place which they certainly did with all the generic staples running around. have you tried asking the OCG tournament champions for their thoughts on Maxx C? that might add some spice to the Maxx C TCG format coming from the OCG players.
Welp Farfa talked to one and he said he hated it
ppl dont really play maxx C in the OCG evnetho its legal, because the bug being legal warped the game.all decks there need ot at at least include the maxx C package in the side deck.
@@Teixas666 not really play maxx c in the OCG? Have you seen the decklist fpr OCG champions? Especially with mathmech and SHS running around maxx c is going to the main deck, how many? Some run 2 but most run 3.
@@hoshi314 and the rest of deck?
if maxx is beingp layed then ash and called by are also stuck there
Maxx C being legal justmeans that you must build aroundthem in best of threee formats aka: side deck staple.
@@Teixas666 usually goes ash 3 maxx c 3. You don't take a look at the OCG aren't ya? Those 2 cards at 3 is the standard there. Called by the grave depends on the deck, and if you wanna go full anti maxx c then add 1 crossout designator (cuz it is limited there). That is why the meta decks in the OCG currently are the ones not bothered by maxx c like runick, labrynth and surprisingly rescue ace
I agree with almost everything you said, except I believe that midrange decks have plans when maxx c resolves. You can set up a salamangreat counter in 2 draws, or a crescendo etc… the thing I most agree with you is that called by the grave is the first card I wanna see banned in the next banlist, even before verte. Btw I believe that the solution for the unfair decks is to stop printing generic extra deck cards, like verte, carrier and halq: if they had specific requirements there will be no scythe lock in every deck, no Baronne turbo and none of that gouki/spyral nonsense we had back in 2017/18
While you can get those cards in 2 summons, you're giving your opponent an extra 2 cards to deal with your 1 interruption
@@literallygrass1328 Yes and your salad cards are also +1s. Pot of Greed would be fair if only the turn 2 player could use it.
@@tmgn7588 not really lmao
I've been thinking about this for a bit, I understand the argument for Maxx C being necessary if the card design isn't accounting for a game where Maxx C isn't legal, I don't think I understand exactly what Maxx C adds to a format (assuming really unfair combo decks are the best).
If we say Maxx C significantly impacts the win rates of these decks, I don't believe it's impacting those win rates in a healthy way. Looking at Master Duel as an example, high roll/'uninteractive' combo decks like Drytron and PK are dominant, and Maxx C is most likely affecting their win rate. But if the only thing keeping their win rate down is simply hand variance where the opponent draws Maxx C and they don't have an out, does this not also lead to the hand comparison example you laid out earlier? It seems like player skill is just as relevant as before, but with an added layer of the Maxx C minigame on top of it adding variance without much meaningful interaction between players.
Fantastic video btw, by far the best opinion I've heard either for or against Maxx C. Would love to see more type of this content on metagame stuff.
Honestly its the counters people have to the card that makes me think it shouldn't come back. I genuinely think it would be fairer if there wasn't any generic cards to stop it, it would have a much stronger impact when people see it but that would force people to deck build in a way to play under maxx c in some capacity.
There's a reason why solemn judgement was banned for all of those years, cards that just force one for one trades are no fun because there's very limited counter play to them. Called by and crossout aren't healthy cards in their own right either, both of them just feel awful to lose to even without maxx c around.
LOL DRYTRON AND PHANTOM KNIGHTS ARE UNPLAYABLE AND HAVE BEEN FOR 8 MONTHS LMAO
@@NeostormXLMAX Comments have timestamps for how long ago they were posted. At the time of this comment being posted, Drytron and PK were top decks.
I think the biggest issue of the fact that we have Maxx banned in the TCG is that it pretty much DEFINES card design in the OCG. Adamancipator and Drytron were so crazy consistent in the TCG because they were designed with the trade off of less consistency for more likely to play through Maxx. It's either that or the best decks/engines printed are just so efficient in the face of being hit with Maxx (Swordsoul, DPE, Adventurer Token, and soon to be Therions can basically trade even with Maxx with minimal summons).
The ideal solution is to have either Maxx be banned in both regions (and have cards designed around it to be more on the power level of salamangreat/orcust) or to have Maxx at 3 in both regions.
OCG will never banned Maxx c even if beetroopers comes, they’ll ban some cards off them to prevent Maxx c being banned.
@@johnathanlemus5584 The OCG I am convinced has Stockholm Syndrome with that card. It is ridiculous at this point.
So one thing about maxxc that I’m prob more familiar due to focusing more on OCG, is that fom what I observe recent years, OCG is designing unfair combo decks in a special trend to limit the problem of maxxc being stopped in unfair combo decks. Good examples like Adamancipator and Drytron.
They are both super vulnerable to maxxc being resolved, but also it’s kinda difficult for them to incorporate max amount anti-maxxc cards in the build. The more non-rock in Adamancipator and non-ritual related cards in Drytron, the more bricky it gets and thus preventing those decks getting as high tournament performance as they are in tcg without Maxxc around. And it also explains why those two specifically are still untouched in ocg (Block Dragon & Benten both at 3).
Another thing is I believe the overall player skill requirements is actually relatively the same between the different type of decks.
One difference is that the more combo heavy the deck gets, the skills are being shifted from actual playing to more deck building. Incorporating the right amount of anti-maxxc card is a very difficult task to acquire while building any ocg decks. However, acquire skills on deck building for unfair combo decks or specifically just Netdecking a good ratio from tournament winning results is much easier than improving better skills on a fair combo or control decks. Therefore, it resulted a phenomenon that unfair combo decks require less skills, which IMO is inaccurate.
Overall I also want to have maxxc back, but not for the benefit of the game or anything. I prefer to have it just so the more skillful players will be rewarded more due to their better skill to handle it.
What exactly is so skillful about being forced to add in mandatory 8 cards into ever deck?
I think a good format is not knowing what your opponent is playing.
Great vid look forward to more :) and seeing you in the tcg again
My argument against maxx c would also be in favor of broken board break cards instead of the maxx c as a means to punish the "unfair decks", nowadays, super poly/drnm/forbidden droplets/lightning/storm/evenly matched/lava golem&winged dragon of ra sphere mode) virtually break any existing board in yugioh and these type of cards keep getting released, pushed and reprinted by konami which I think is a way better to balance an already broken game than with 60 card 80% chance of drawing handtrap festivals with one card engine pile decks , The way this works and actually balances everything is that in order to have a nice competent board , you have to diversify the interactions you place with your opponent so you can have answers both as monster interactions like negates, pops, flip face downs or bounces, spells and traps and also if possible some interactions from hand. this causes the meta to lean more towards mid range or "fair decks" as you call them than to the "unfair" more exclusively monster negation based combo strategies. Proof of this is that mid range decks are actually the meta in every single instance of the game (tcg,ocg and MD). The real issue in the game are "you cannot even attempt to play the game" linger based cards/strategies sych as rhongo, artifact scythe, shock master, azathot, kali yuga and other clones of the same type of card as well as stupid alternate win cons such as full handloop, direct damage based ftk like strategies and those kind of stuff. Nothing pleases more an experienced player who has seen the evolution of the game to see that aggro combo, beatdown and control strategies are all viable and are fun to play in their way. And there is nothing more satisfying than breaking an oponnents full board to simplify the game state, some times you have to use some broken monster as zeus, ultimate conductor tyranno and stuff, sometimes a golden lord is more than enough to force out 2 omni negates to proceed to tear apart the opponents board with a torrential, ice dragons prison, solemn strike, or conquistador+ eldlich trap. I know this is a lot of text but would sincerely appreciate your thoughts on this cause I genuinely think this would cause the game to actually be even more fun both to play and to watch, constant back and forth of 2 equally skilled individuals with their own styles and strategies
On the one hand I agree, in theory you could design better solutions than Maxx C. However these board breakers are incedibly bad going first most of the time and therefor don't really end up in the Main Deck for most Meta relevant decks, meaning that combo decks usually don't need to worry about them to much. The only card that is truly designed well out of these is Forbidden Droplets, because it has value when going first, making it a good inclusion in a bunch of decks. We need more of these types of cards and maybe the issues can be solved this way.
Really enjoy listening to your opinion and can fully agree
Maxx c should never come back regardless of its effect simply because it auto adds 3 maxx c, 3 ash, 2 called by and 1 cross out to EVERY single deck. Any card that makes a 1/4 of every deck the same has way too much sway on the game. IMO the more variety a deck build has the more it tests your skills.
I haven't watched the video yet, am just giving my opinion from the title so forgive me if I've repeated anything already said.
I think you forgot to mention the scenario where the person going first has Maxx C in the hand, so not only the going second person will have to deal with his opponent's board but will also have to deal with maxx C, this at least is what makes me think it should never come back. I do understad your points and agree with them, but I would like to see a real fix to the problem itself (unbreakable turn 1 boards) than having to deal with maxx C just because it's what keep those decks in check. How would they do that in a pratical way I really don't know, they're not going to ban 50 cards and stop making overpowered stuff
I agree with what you're saying. I also am skeptical that maxx c would be the answer we need. Going second on top of maxx c usually makes the situation infinitely harder to deal with. So here is what I propose instead. New effect monster:
Board break level 10 fusion monster with 2200 atk 1600 defense (stats are irrelevant as is the name) Materials: 2+ monsters
cannot be used as xyz, link, synchro, or fusion material. Must be special summoned (from the extra deck) by sending monsters from either side of the field to the graveyard ( you do not use polymerization.) After this card is summoned you cannot conduct your battle phase nor set cards for the rest of the turn. You can only special summon this card once per turn when you control no other cards.
Anyways, I think that what the game needs are more cards like fortress dragon and megafleet except even more generic. What I think the game would benefit from is ways to break boards that are not as abusable.
If Maxx C resolved consistently, it is your own responsibility to not play decks that have to special summon insane amounts to break a board. Also the opponent playing a deck that loses to Maxx C is unlikely to do well in a tournament in this scenario. And since as you say, it is unlikely for them to manage a balanced format without Maxx C, even though it would be possible.
@@JoshuaSchmidtYGO how do you feel about cards like Nibiru? Do you think more cards like it would help to improve the game? I personally really like how it works, but being almost useless going first makes it a dead card in your hand. I would like to see more cards like it but something that encourages you to use in your main deck with less drawbacks if you draw it going first (just like Maxx C I guess?). I used to be completely against Maxx C going back but I'm rethinking that, still skeptical tho, but I agree that it makes combo decks weaker.
Hello Joshua, I really like this way of thinking. I've seen how people just really hate Maxx C because it fucks up their decks or their strategies instead of trying to build decks around Maxx C. I'm an OCG player and a lot of us hate Maxx C, but we think its a necessary evil so combo heavy decks are kept in check, and helps diversify the meta. I mean just look at the pie chart, Its so diverse with a bunch of decks running around.
(as of May 27 to June 6, 2023: Rescue-Ace, Purrely, Runick, Branded, Mathmech, Adamancipators, Kashtira, Tearlaments these were the decks that have 10+ representation in the meta).
Now onto Maxx C as a card itself inside a deck, We've already made sure that we have:
6 cards (3 ash, 2 called, 1 crossout) are an out to Maxx C
3 Maxx C because we need to join in brothers
9 cards alone are dedicated to stopping Maxx C or playing it itself which compacts the decks we have in the OCG. Yet you still see Combo decks as listed above that are running around rampant.
I also read that a lot of people really hate that people get activate Maxx C with their 6-8 negate boards ensuring a sure lose, yet if the opponent made a 6-8 negate board without being stopped, most of the problem is with the knowledge of the opponents deck and the deck itself not having any handtraps or anyway to stop it. The Maxx C used on top of the 6-8 negate board is just A CHERRY ON TOP.
We've accepted Maxx C, If it gets banned, we're happy, if it stays, we deal and play with it. We don't complain about it all the time on youtube comments and reddit threads but instead, play around it because its what Konami OCG wants to do.
I forgot to add that Droll & Lock bird (2 cards for the most part) are also side or main deck options for decks that could play around not adding cards to their hand and just stopping Maxx C.
you are the only comment to mention this which is mindblowing to me: every single optimal deck that special summons has to run 12 cards (droll included, even more in md) deck building is my favorite part of ygo in general and maxx c just kills it imo. its so unfun to have to play the same cards in every single deck. as long as there are no ftks in the format you dont have to run handtraps in the tcg which i love. imo maxx c would ruin the game and i would rather have the outrageous card prices in the tcg than having to play with maxx c
@@RESCUEACEygo
Maxx C is unbanned in the OCG, that is the main reason we use these cards. It is still part of deck building, and is one of the many reasons why you see a bunch of these decks run around winning tourneys and the meta being very diverse. If your only reason for not running handtraps is because Combos, then you have failed to adopt to the meta and the banlist and failed at deck building.
Maxx C has always been a problem card along with what TCG always claims to be busted cards that are limited/semi-limited/unlimited in the OCG but almost never sees competitive play in the OCG (Upstart Goblin, Chicken Game, Kaiser Colosseum, etc.), but the only difference is OCG players deal with it and sure we complain and groan about it but we deal with it. I've seen more TCG players complain about Maxx C when the card has been banned already in your side of the banlist than OCG players talk about what Pot of Greed does.
Handtraps have become essential for deck building in Yugioh, claiming that you dont need to include it in the deck is a very BOLD statement unless you play locals/casuals. FTKs also exists as unbreakable boards with multiple negates that could have been dealt with using handtraps that you claim is not needed. Also, have you seen the German nationals? I've seen a couple of players scoop after having their boards broken or not being able to play their cards because EEV resolved and it MIRACULOUSLY wiped out their entire hand.
I'm not saying Maxx C needs to be unbanned, If you read my entire comment, Its clearly stated that we in the OCG hate it but just accepted that its part of the game. Its JUST ANOTHER CARD and I would rather have my cheap reprints and cheaper but better quality cards than complain about Maxx C non-stop when its already banned in the TCG.
3 points i wanna mention about maxx c
1) i feel like a lot of the hate for maxx c comes from the way the community itself sells the game recently, i think a lot of new players are introduced to the game with the mentality of "if you wanna have fun and show that you're good at the game, you need to play a combo deck" and maxx c contradicting this mentality is being seen as the opposite "fun".
2) adding maxx c to the game doesn't necessarily sacrifice cool decks like salamangreat, orcust or phantom knight. In the ocg, even with maxx c at 3, those decks were the best deck of the format at some point (orcust specially was the best deck for a long time, you can see this with how many orcust cards are at 1 in the ocg)
3) maxx c interacts in an interesting way with adventure token in the ocg, if you start your combo with aramesir and your oponent chains maxx c, you can just search gryphon rider, pass, and then summon the gryphon on your opponent turn, meaning you get an omninegate while only giving your opponent 1 card of maxx c, this way combo decks can still end on something (1 omni + 1 or 2 hand traps) when they get maxx c, which kinda solves some issues with both maxx c and adventure, you don't end on an empty board if you get maxx c,but you don't get to use your adventure engine for insane combos.
i used to hate maxx c a lot (mainly because Ptsd from when it was at one in zoo format), but after playing master duel format for a while, i no longer find issues with the card.
Do you realize that salad isn't doing anything right now because of maxx c being legal in OCG? especially with maxx c legal in master duel. If you take maxx c challenge, you will lose immediately, but if you stop to comboing, you are surely dead next turn because they will have a chance to setup better. The better solution would be maxx c stay banned, and we need to hit unfair combo deck, and thinking carefully about the future cards design
Nice video!
I don't like the idea of Maxx C coming out of the banlist simply because the card wasn't well designed considering you can drop on your opponent after making your board, so in my opinion it should stay banned (It sucks Just like when your opponent make a strong board and then flipped Vanity Emptiness)
However if it was redesigned and included some restriction like while your opponent controls more monsters then you do and ideally not being able to be responded (Like Superpoly) it would be a great card.
But those changes are so radical that realistically, they could just make Maxx "C" 2.0 to avoid Unfair Combo Decks to be so relevant on the meta again
I just saw your Video now and thought about a way to make another more balanced “Maxx E” :
Your opponent can summon 5 (maybe less, maybe more) and after that you will start drawing cards for every special summon. This can only be activated at the start of the main phase (or on the first special summon) and can not be negated.
This way, a lot of decks can put up a bord, but not so strong that it is unbreakable and not too weak (unless they dont know how to play around this [Playerskill]) to just instantly loose.
That's just telegraphed Nibiru. And actual Nibiru already sucks when telegraphed.
You could just bring it down to 3 turn if you want to, bit the big difference is that you can not just make a monster/omninegate before your 5th summon and dont care. Sure, it will not be good against any deck, but it will stop the combo heavy decks which are the main focus in this video. Hand traps should not be able to hit every single deck, but be good at hitting the decks they are designed to hit.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the bigger issue is that Maxx C is mathematically more likely to benefit the player going first. Even if Crossout and Called By are both banned, if both players are running 40 card decks with 3 ash 3 maxx C, the player going first has an equal (if not increased--quite a few decks draw extra cards, and some decks can just search it) chance of opening maxx C. And they also have the additional chance of negating any outs the opponent might have. I was gonna explain the math behind my reasoning but decided it would be too long and kinda cringe. :x
On the anecdotal side, when I was still playing SS Tenyi on MD I distinctly remember plenty of games going second against a combo board I could have feasibly broken, but then they dropped Maxx C and it was immediate gg. Is the dynamic of being able to somewhat rein in combo decks worth that particular interaction happening just as often? I don't really think it is. Especially since if you open ash going second you're probably better off just using it on their normal plays.
Plus, I don't really think the ability to make a minimal turn 1 play under Maxx C has anything to do with how fair a combo deck is. Adventure Tenyi is definitely not a fair combo deck, but they can still just Gryphon Rider or Baronne pass.
maxx c forces u to play like 15 cards in every deck it should never ever come back imo. i love deckbuilding and maxx c just kills the variety, wich is the main selling point of having no set rotation anyways
I completely hate maxx c. I play dragunity which is NEVER tiered and it simply dies at a resolved maxx c. Its already not top tier. Then more floodgate decks would arise and wouldn't be fun to face. A card that single handedly warps a format around it shouldn't exist. Maxx c is meta warping. Your deck is created around it being resolved above all.
I definitely agree that Maxx C is only worth having in a format if it resolves. There are just too many outs, and the difference in outcome between it resolving or not is too important to ignore.
Right now, putting Maxx C to 3 in TCG would just predetermine the first 10 cards of most decks (Maxx, Ash, Crossout, Called by) removing that much player agency in deck building doesn't seem beneficial, particularly when it just adds randomness.
Other major disadvantages of the card that weren't mentioned are that whilst it can improve a format on a macro scale, it rarely provides enjoyable gameplay. Games where it does resolve, which are essential for any benefit to be seen, are often decided without any test of skill. The turn player either stops without defences, or continues and is overwhelmed by volume of resources.
Also, it isn't just player 2 that can draw Maxx C. Sometimes it just makes turn 1 player's board even more unbreakable.
Don't you think if Maxx would resolve more reliably, people would be forced to stop playing decks that just pass without defense? I can only speak for myself here, but I would never enter a tournament with something like Drytron, Rocks or Halq combo in that environment, I would be looking for slower decks. If the majority does the same, we might see regular, non-floodgate Traps make a return because those are a way to not be defense-less when passing to Maxx C.
And if the Meta becomes slower, going 2nd with Traps in hand wouldnt be that bad either.
@@JoshuaSchmidtYGO if Ash Blossom was the only viable way to negate Maxx C then yes, unbanning it could definitely improve the meta overall.
Maybe instead Konami could make a new HT that achieves the same goal, but without losing to Ash Blossom.
Instead of draw 1 card per summon, inflict 1200 damage. That'd stop all the big combo decks.
A good point of comparison is Mental Misstep.
Mental Misstep is a Magic card that counters a spell with CMC 1 for {P/U} (i.e. 2 life, and it has CMC 1).
Its indirect effects on formats where it’s legal are great: It suppresses broken 1 mana cards like Brainstorm, Dark Ritual, and Delver of Secrets, while also opening up space for decks that don’t rely on those cards.
The problem is, playing with Mental Misstep is utterly miserable, and so it’s banned or restricted in every format but Commander (which is miserable anyway) to save players from the misery of it.
I completely agree with you on the point that Unfair Combo Decks should not exist and Maxx "C" is needed as long as these decks exist. On the other hand Called by the grave in my opinion should be banned, Crossout maybe is fine for now in MD format. Btw i hope they will introduce Competitive Ladder system with Leaderboard and Official Tournaments in MD, for now is really disappointing.
I think Nibiru has a similar issue where it can technically lead to a skillful expression of play but enabling better players to approach comboing with the goal of conquering it however, Konami has blatantly printed cards that allow strategies they want to be successful to trivialize nibiru or mount a meaningful method of play while under its summon count like kashtria or floo.
This then leads me to conclude that Nibiru like Maxx C is not a healthy card for the game as all it does is gate keep the decks that are not allowed to ply around it and the ability to stop it is so difficult that it’s impossible to say it’s anything other than a card that pushes a decks floor as opposed to forcing a deck to its ceiling to overcome it.
What you said at the very end is exactly what happened with nibiru where the best decks are the ones that don’t care about it as much.
Nibiru is a infinetely better designed card for the fact that its existence limits combo decks afar better than the buf ever did, and it does so in a manner where its not overly opressive ot play against.
being limited ot 5 summons is far more lenient that giving your opponent a +5
Very interesting and insightful video. I am looking forward for more of this kind.
Really thought provoking discussion, I loved listening to this when I was out for my run so didn't mind the audio being out of sync at all, great video Josh!
The more I'm getting into competitive Yugioh (started playing Master Duel in March and started playing TCG last week) the more I think they need new mechanics to address OP boards or at least cards that leverage those mechanics.
For example having decks like Kaijus and Sphere Mode that are inherently tributes and not effects like Nibiru to negate boards (especially when they have 2-4 negates on the board Turn 1 with an Ash Blossom for another negate you cant even see).
Another example is True Draco. I get that TD was viewed as a cancer because of Master Peace but I think it's pseudo-normal summons (which let's be honest are actually special summons) using back row was rather clever. It made the deck very slow like old school yugioh because it's difficulty to get many monsters out and doesn't require my opponent to fill the deck with hand traps like Ash and Maxx C to stop me from popping off. I do enjoy combing and deck searches but what's wrong with allowing slower decks that have a balance between Tribute summons, special summons, and trap use?
I liked how they took a stab at this with Pendlum summoning but ultimately it was still classified as special summoning. Perhaps mote Trinute summoning and using monsters as inherent costs for summoning can balance things out. Like Kaijus and Sphere and Supet Poly. Those really make things interesting and allow for some good back and forth.
I don't agree with ban called by or crossout take
Not every combo deck is toxic and not every deck can push through handtraps, if those cards leave some decks will be even hard to play.
Also handtraps shouldn't be able to always resolve they have to be contested some how
yeah every typenlf card should have counterplay
I was here when the best youtube channel started 😎
this was a great video. i didnt lnow if it was #1 or #1k
Thanks for this very informative video Joshua. I always see Maxx C as broken and have never even considered it as an option to be on 3. Though through your video I think I learned a lot new things. So thanks for that. I have always looked up to you as one of the most amazing player ever. Your words matters to me.
I just don't think the dynamic maxx c creates is very fun or interesting. The problem is that there is no down side to just shot gunning it during the draw phase. They either end their turn right away and you go -1 but gain a massive amount of tempo or they do their whole combo and you gain a ton of resources. It either needs some sort of limit to the amount of cards you can draw or some sort of down side similar to what ghost sister has.
what about looking at it from the perspective that Maxx C can change not only how games are being played, but also which decks are being chosen by players?
@@JoshuaSchmidtYGO What about how Maxx 'C' centralizes deck building into a Maxx 'C' and anti-Maxx 'C' package? Or how it can be used by t1 player against t2 player to shut off the opponent's turn so you can OTK them next turn? What about drawing into additional hand traps through Maxx 'C'?
You don't account for a lot of typical uses for the card.
@@ericm5315 I account for those, im just saying in a world where everyone has to respect Maxx C the decks that people play would change, potentially solving some of those issues.
@@JoshuaSchmidtYGO that's complete BS. The best decks STAY the best when Maxx C is around because they are already more consistent and compact. What Maxx C does is kill nearly every rogue deck, wich are generally less consistent, less able to stack hate for the card, and much more vulnerable to it's effects. And this we have had years of proof, on the OCG rogue top cuts are WAY less frequent, while on the TCG you see things like Crystal Beast show up once in a while.
lol shotgun it in the draw phase and you realise you are playing against True Draco hahahaha
I love to see these kinds of discussions even though the only Yu-Gi-Oh I played is master duel.
I think Maxx C is the most powerful handtrap ever printed. If it weren't for the unfair combo decks,these super powerful handtraps would literally break the game(if they already haven't). It also promotes a game that will literally force every single deck in the game that special summons to run 9 auto-include outs all the time.
its ash blossom/haru urara, it just invalidates every single rogue deck where they need one specific summon from the deck to work.
Yes. Handtraps are really strong. Quick effect interruption before you even place a card on the field is insanely good. If the unfair combo decks didn't exist, handtraps would be a massive problem
@@john1691 look, ash and gamma are the only handtraps that ever getting hit by the banlist not maxx c.
ash are just too versatile on what she can do, even shaddoll fusion can be negated with it, it just feels exactly like a judgment on handtraps.
@@r3zaful yeah,they get hit by the banlist,know why? Because they're strong.
You can unban maxx c if they change the activation condition to only be able to activate it if you have no monsters on the field. Because i think its a bigger problem when someone makes a board turn 1, then on your turn they drop maxx c with board full of negates or floodgates.
Better yet, make it no cards. Or having less cards in the field as a requirement. With this change, the card would be a go second card almost exclusively.
Actually i don't think that's a maxx c problem, but a problem about yugioh in general: player going first is just way too good then second(because most cards only do anything when they are actually played on the field).
You can replace what you said for maxx c with any card, ash for example, or a decent trap card and say the same thing. Make a board full of negates and have a trapcard which the second player cant activate turn1, for the cherry on top. Sure maxx c sometimes is more disgusting then said cards simply because its broken, but player going first having maxx c won't be a problem if unhealthy combos weren't so toxic in the first place(not to mention maxx c is "usually" a bad card to have going first than second, being a dead card until endturn).
There's also the option to run lightning storm or forbidden droplet, which are cards designed to specifically counter what youre bringing up: first player being too good. So those are cards that really help out the format too imo. It's also why raigeki got unbanned.
I would have agred with maxx C being free some years ago; right now, the game is just too degenerate: it does't resolve often enough vs good decks, and vs "bad decks" it's kinda unnecessary and makes'em totally unplayable.
it can also be used by player1, and good luck in playing vs a full board and a maxx C (especially because the going 1st player's maxx C will resolve much easier since he'll have established some sort of negates).
I'd prefer a new HT, that can only be activated in oppo's turn and makes you draw for every special summon, but everytime you draw, you just put a card from your hand back into deck. this would be a -1, but will still make your opponent pass, or you'll either get a hand good enough to face your oppo's board.
So Basically Phantasmay
@@johnathanlemus5584 phantazmay only works for links, and does not stop a turn.
thats why gamma, heralds, ash blossom, called by, cross out.
should all be fucking banned.
maxx c should be like super polymerization,
you activate they can't respond
This is the kind of content I'm here for
Imagine a world where maxx C is legal, but it get an errata so you can't use it after making your board.
With this, I could agree more than anything that maxx C should return to 3. The major problem is how oppresive this card can be when you do your normal combo, and drops it at your opponent going second. This is the sole reason why I think this card is just unfair.
Funnily enough while watching, Joshua had just finished a sentence with "two essential questions" and was about to elaborate when a Swiffer ad popped up and the dialogue started almost at the same time that Joshua would've begun speaking. Near-perfect timing 😅
Before I start watching, I already know the answer, it should be banned and never be brought back
''fair combo decks'' Bro they have literally cards banned/limited to this days. Just because they were powercrept doesnt mean they are now fair to other decks and cards like vanilla monsters under the hierarchy. If anything hurts them along the brocken stuff that serf them right then, they were bad card design and never should have been printed in the first place.
It's an interesting video, and I like a lot of your talking points. However I think there's a major oversight here, and that is how hard Maxx C punishes basically any deck trying to make any meaningful plays on their own turn. Say I'm playing Sky Striker and my opponent shotguns Maxx C when he sees Roze Normal Summon. If I end the turn then and there, he just went -1 but I did basically nothing. If I go into Shizuka and end turn, he grabbed an easy draw. If I go Hayate, attack, then Shizuka, he basically got Pot of Greed off me playing normally. And the reason I bring up Sky Striker is because they get some of the most advantage off of those summons, compared to some other deck that puts up two summons under Maxx C and then ends their turn. It punishes combo decks especially, but basically everything that isn't "set five pass" or am Eldlich type deck seems to suffer.
That is what he said in the video too. It also punishes fair combo decks
@@rethguals2902 It punishes any deck that special summons at all. Giving any amount of draws to my opponent is a huge punishment, because those draws could be more handtraps or boardbreakers that just invalidate what I've accomplished with those summons in the first place.
Also congrats on starting your yugi channel hope you're gonna have a nice journey!!
Maxx "C" would be more tolerable if it had restrictions like "You can't control any cards to resolve this effect."
If it did I still wouldn't like the card, but I think it'd be... more acceptable. As it stands, you go second, drop your ash or whatever to hamstring the opponent, they pass with a "fair" board and then drop Maxx "C" on you. It just feels awful to play against. You may have the means to break their board, but if they draw a new hand in the process and you're not playing a deck that can otk through a board, you just lose.
I don't think anything is going to change... combo decks will get crazier and crazier and nothing will stop them while Konami makes big bucks.
Can you make a video about which solutions you would apply to fix the game? For example set rotation or special summon limit... Thank you 😉
good idea, might work on that!
Ye
u forgot to add to the equation that Droll too can stop Maxx C. If we calc the probability of Drawing at least 1 Ash, Droll, Called By or Crossout in Master Duel, it is about 80%. without the 2nd Called By, like the actual Physical TCG, we have a 77% chance. So a lil more than 3 out of 4 times, our Maxx C is getting stopped, provided the opp is playing all those cards to counter it.
if the meta is ever in a situation where droll and lock is a main deck staple, search effects have clearly gone too far and must be adressed..
@@Teixas666aged perfectly lol
I agree that maxx c checks on combo decks that makes unbreakable boards. Even as a TCG player, Maxx c would help check on unfair combo decks and that it’s Konami that makes the unfair combo decks in which we suffer because we don’t have Maxx c on the format. 4 years without it shows how bad it is without it.
Maxx C impacts equally both fair and unfair combo strategies. I'd argue unfair actually suffer less, because they are able to reliably have outs to Maxx C ether in a form of specific counters or general floodgate/negate monsters. Look at Master Duel, for example, and tell me Herald is kept in check by Maxx C.
Ah yes. Clearly none of the unfair combo decks will play Maxx C.... Or something.
@@kindlingking ban Maxx C in Master Duel and Drytrons are even worse. Because you lose one of those cards that can stop them in their tracks. Sure I agree that if straight up unfair decks and cards were hit first (looking at things like rhongo VFD etc) we wouldn’t have this issue but again the reality is dumb combos are being found all the time with old cards (who the fuck even played Herald before drytrons with any success?) and in the OCG now for example Splights combining with Frogs. I don’t think it’s realistic to ask for Konami to always be on their toes no matter what with every card they release. The reality is they are a business and they have to sell cards so they deliberately intend for some cards to inevitably power creep the alternatives bit by bit and there is no feasible way they can make sure that no card ever interacts with an older deck or archetype in a super unfair way because that would restrict card design a lot. Maxx C makes the game feel sacky absolutely but it solves the issue of dice roll and hope your hand is good enough because there r more instances where your hand WILL be good enough to stop these decks that straight up decide the game at turn 1.
@@premojha979 ban Drytrons as well? They quickly fell out of the meta when Benten went to 1 and Eva got banned. Hell, they fell off considerably even in Master Duel after just Benten hit. Also, if you didn't know, Drytron is actually one of those decks that can play right through your Maxx C and still win due to their insane resource generation. So the whole point of Maxx C keeping them in check or even working against them is mute. As, I believe, I already said, Maxx C doesn't keep anything in check, it buffs everything equally, but decks that are already good can amplify this buff to a ridiculous degree.
Also no, broken combos are not found that often and rarely come out of nowhere. Usually those cards are well known about and sometimes even experimented with, like Block Dragon or Herald (ritual fairies played and tried to break it, they just weren't good), or have already been on the banlist, like Toad you mentioned. Yes, konami care first and foremost about money, but don't act like everything is doom and gloom all of the time. Even konami understand that they should eventually ban broken cards to keep the game afloat.
>Maxx C is sacky
>Maxx C solves the issue of diceroll
Pick one please. Also elaborate on "deciding the game on turn 1" in the context of current and the past 2-3 formats. It's easy to use nebulous terms like "broken decks" and "10 negates turn 1", but can you give an example, so we can work with concrete strategies?
I am so happy that you are back on UA-cam again
I mean fuck it I’d call it even if I end up going second against a board of 3-8 negates with a 20 card hand 🤣
Great first vid! Definitely earned my sub!
The biggest take from this that I 100% agree with is that called by and crossout are just awful. Crossout is not quite so bad because you at least have to give up deck space but its still a lazy design, called by on the other hand is just the worst and even more so with it being at 1. Feels so bad when the combo deck has opened everything and called by. After playing master duel I think I am firmly in the camp of Max C could come back and crossout and called by can just be banned and good riddance.
Eh id like called by to stay just so i can piss people off with my mill deck.
LOL! If Maxx C was legal without any counters, it wouldn't just be the death of combo decks, it would be the death of special summoning as a whole. No one would want to play anything that needs to special summon more than once, and then Maxx C would go through cycles of not being played because no one special summons, then creeping back in the format when people start to get comfortable enough with its absence to start special summoning again. It would be an absolute fucking nightmare!
That would mean they would have to rework the whole game. Game is not gonna change now it will only keep building up and if your deck cant keep up then you will always lose
dont need maxx c, drawing cards is just too resourceful. but instead we do have board breakers like dark ruler no more, any kaiju, lava golem, forbidden droplet, etc. I think those options are a more intelligent counter to "combo" decks going first. side note, I have been playing yugioh for about 16 years, and ive experience this in master duel and duel links to this day, It seems to be an algorithm, that gives your opponent, either ash, or maxx c in a 5 card opening hand. I did a test recently, and played 10 duels. out of those 10 duels, my opponent opened with maxx c eight times, and I only drew the out (ash, called by) twice.
I think Maxx 'C' irks me for a few reasons. The big one is that it isn't dead if you get stopped while going first. A requirement for activation like more modern hand traps (gamma or d-shifter for example) may be enough to sway me on releasing the card.
The second complaint is how generic it is. Even going +1 is such a swing in yugioh, and otks are readily available. I think many rogue decks thrive by being immune to format techs focused on the best decks. Handtraps like droll, lancea, and even nibiru come in and out of formats, but Maxx C would be an eternally applicable three of. I was calling the verte package a "yugioh tax" as it was pretty much required last format; Maxx C would be just another version.
Side note, something I've found interesting over the last few years in the TCG: all the big combo decks appear to have been built around 1 broken card from ages ago. I don't think that's an accident, though I may be giving konami's R&D too much credit. And, when they hit that one card, or its enabler, the deck drops to mid-range status at best (although, last format I think they had to cleanup the remnants).
Knightmare Mermaid, Master Plan, Block Dragon, Benten, VFD, martial metal marcher, smoke grenade (arguable). I'm not convinced the deskbot nonsense was planned, but you could argue that too. But, that's just my conspiracy.
Honestly im not playing the tcg only online in master duel and while maxx c is a good tool going second like shifter (if you can play with shifter) but the more frustrating thing is an enemy performing a combo then maxx c you backed up by his negates on board. In this case maxx c always resolves and they will draw their handtraps while you have to break the board which is pretty much game over.
Happend to me against mathemech a few days ago in MD. the problem is not that one max c which you van negate. The things he uses next turn ANOTHER max c or the situation you mentioned
I would love to hear your take on the Adventurer engine.
They really need to start unbanning many cards! Maxx c being one of them. Unban mystic mine, Konami needs to stop listening to the crybaby community for ones and just unban some cards that'll spice up the meta and force players to adapt
Maxx C is objectively bad for the game. The whole point of a ban list is to force diversity in decks. If Maxx C is allowed, then every deck intent on winning runs it, because they'll be at a huge disadvantage if they don't, and then they have to run the counters to Maxx C as well. This makes one fifth of all decks the same.
To be fair those 60 card piles we play rn come from the OCG, we literally took some adventure pile decks and modified them.
I personally think that we don't need maxx c, the pre Bode format and toss showed me that the TCG can live without this insect, aslong as Konami is designing the banlist well and Konami is slowing down if it comes to new card designs. Like last year we've had a pretty chill meta until Bode got released. And this Format could've just been another vfd Format, but sadly grand creators had to exist. Without scythe and the brave engine this would've been one of the Best Formats we've ever had..
Exactly my point! Striker, Orcust, Salamangreat and Thunder format was a great example of a good format (not perfect, but good) without Maxx C.It is possible, but as soon as something bad gets released it turns the format quite bad until they manage it with a good banlist.
Amazing how I disagree with the vast majority of points and arguments made in this video, yet I completely agree with the final opinion that Maxx C should come back.
Haven’t watched it all yet, but i have an idea.
Maxx “c” would be alot less unreasonable if it were errata’d to only be activated, like you need no face up cards, or no cards in graveyards.
Not a fan of errata’s but this is the only way it does not end up a win more, being able to throw it out after setting up a board is absolutely broken.
Its super toxic in best of 1 in MD it straight up just is a win button, w/o any side process and warps the entire deck building process.
You should make a custom banlist, Id be really interested in your take
We can't agree. You somehow thing fair combo is worth playing. Any deck cable of losing going first makes it worthless to do so
The best thing to do is add a Master rule that 1st turn players can't special summon. Then Maxx C can go
But then they'll special summon as soon as they can and achieve the same effect.
So what is the first turn player suppose to do…?
@@megaspacewaffles accroding ot this comment apparently just accept they lost the coin toss.
Imo it should be limited or at least semi limited. I have experienced numerous amounts of times when i played a combo deck and and got max c-ed 3 rounds in a row since i prefer not to play into it and just pass the turn...if i even survived the 2nd/3rd turn...
So I just started getting back into the game, and i started watching your videos, i've been playing the game since it came out. Since i started watching your videos in the back of my head I was like i've seen this guy before. The beginning of this video, had me like "ah yes, this guy, he's good at yugioh lol"
Why do you not count ARG events as tops?
Handtraps are unhealthy for the game but are necessary when every combo deck that exists makes 2 omni negates and a 4 negate apollousa. Maxx C being the ultimate answer to these decks is probably too toxic for the game though. The card is actually just way too powerful to exist, and is actually just creating a sewage of combo formats when Konami designs decks around Maxx C in the OCG. The proper solution is to just stop printing generic omni-negate effect monsters. I'd rather have a format where every deck has a Drident than the Baronne/Apollousa in every deck format.
This Is a technically POV video " when you loose to many time Maxx C in master duel "'a
I wonder how this has panned out since this video came out
I desperately wish Maxx C would come back to the TCG. While Master Duel is different from the TCG in many ways, having 3 Maxx C really convinced me it is a card I would prefer to have in the game.
Only at 3 though. At 1 or 2 it becomes a sack card.
Needs to be 0 or 3, 1 or 2 are not even options
The issue is it can be used in any deck. So they can build their fat combo board then max c after.
Idk man maybe just rework the card to the same effect and say to a maximum of 2 cards.
My problem with Maxx C isnt, that its broken, or that its to good against combo decks, the thing I dont like is, that you have to play like 9 cards only to abuse and counter Maxx C, and thats like 1/5 of the whole deck mostly, that nearly every meta player has to play, that brings way less variation to the different decks
Funny, when I play master duel I probably resolve maxx C like 2/3 of the time, but negate my opponents like 2/3 of that time😅I feel this is a well made video, mad props. I can respect a lot of what you’re saying.
For my own opinion, I think the 3 biggest issues with maxx C, and why it needs to be banned (very simply put) are that…
1. It forces you to dedicate like 25%+ of your deck just to hopefully DRAW a counter it, meaning it’s luck based. Or play a non combo deck entirely, and both of these things are unhealthy for the game
2. If it does go off, it essentially wins games no matter the situation (except for of course convenient situations like the player using it is just really bad, etc.). Either ending the turn immediately or playing through it, it rarely ends well. I personally do hate insane combo decks, but I dont want players to just never be able to use them or make their victory based entirely on luck because of something like maxx C, especially when it’s available for all decks and all players to use.
3. It doesnt do it’s job and is just poorly made. The player who uses it can also use any other cards or effects. This can let player 2 drop a handtrap at an opportune time to stop player 1 altogether, while also gaining huge advantage off of maxx c…or player 1 sets up a strong board and then also has Maxx c…yikes
I feel 2 fixes could improve the card…
1. You need to discard (or even banish facedown) a card plus the maxx c. This helps so that the player who uses it can’t gain as much advantage if they chain maxx c to something that special summons, and the turn player then limits their turn in any way, etc. this also puts more risk on using the card if it gets negated
2. In addition I think they need to lock you out of using any other effects for the turn. This way the player using it can’t use a bunch of handtraps while still gaining advantage, and a combo player with an established board can’t use maxx C in addition to what they already have
At the end of the day I think (and what you kinda pointed out) the problem is the power creep as a whole. Games are getting much more in depth, they’re over quicker, and because of the OTK/unbreakable board potential, they’re much more luck based. And the band aid fixes for them haven’t really helped, and if anything have only hurt weaker decks even more than power creep itself. Maxx C just kinda adds another layer of luck and frustration to games IMO, I do wish Konami would really reign in some of these decks and cards. But at the end of the day, it’s a business, they gotta make money sadly
Counterpoints:
1. The "anti-C" cards are not merely included because they are anti-C. They're cards you dedicate a quarter of your deck to because they are generic disruption to the opponent's strategies in general. Ash in particular is one of the most versatile hand traps in the game, and Called By is a combo-killer. Designator not only works as disruption for any common card but can also be used to set up your own banished if you need it (Tenyi/Swordsoul).
2. Factually incorrect. Maxx C does not win games. It may sometimes help, but it is *not* a deciding factor.
3. It does its job well. When it actually works.
@@MrJoeyWheeler so to debate back…
1. While those cards are still good and generic of course, it doesnt go against what I’m saying. They’re still essentially auto-includes in every deck due to maxx c, unless your deck can naturally play around it. It also doesnt do anything to alter the power level of maxx c, just because there are technically counters to it
2. The point you replied with is irrelevant, obviously there’s never going to be a singular card or situation where 1 single thing led to a victory. But when draw power is so significant, trying to call me out on this point just seems like you’re being picky
3. It doesnt do it’s job well at all because it either gets countered or makes your opponent decide between “skip turn or most likely lose”
Max C would not be nesseary to have if powercreep was held in check with proper banlists.
What? Banlist are usually very impactful what
@@megaspacewaffles MD banlist is a joke and OCG love broken cards so no they not usefull at all. Not when its based on profit.
@@queenbrightwingthe3890 It always has been in the OCG/MD/TCG. They haven't even lied about that either they admit to it.
They are a company, they need money to keep the gamer alive.
@@megaspacewaffles And thats where the problem kicks in. Only careing about profit then to balance the game is the reason why YGH is how it is now. Releasing more broken decks just to nerf it again in 6 months. Rinse/repeat. All that just to earn more money while providing players one frustrating format after the other.
@@queenbrightwingthe3890 wouldn’t say “frustrating” people love the current format.
Yes. Profits are how a game stays alive.
I really disagree on this cuz it makes skill combo decks less viable and rather supports the braindead ones. Imagine giving a monkey deck like floowandereeze a way to out every board. It is not skill to draw 2 hts with maxx c to kill every possible board. Or imagine a skill combo player to pass after maxx c resolves and he didnt draw maxx c to stop his opp from the otk.
What you call "skill combo deck" only requires skill from one person. Yugioh is a two player game. And I never said decks like Floowandereeze are ideal either, decks that stun the opponent also arent good for the game. In both scenarios one player does not get to play the game and his skill does not matter.
@@JoshuaSchmidtYGO with skill combo decks i mean for example ddd which depends much on the player and has a beatable endboard. Non skill combo decks for me are for example prankkids which require almost as much skill as normal summon aleister.
Tell me you have a low IQ without telling me you have a low IQ.
Yes Lexi does move us forward in an ideal format and yes Maxi is necessary
Your arguments are definitely a lot more well-thought out than a lot of takes on this subject. However, there's one major flaw in your reasoning: That Konami using Maxx "C" as a substitute for good card design is a feature not a bug. If this multi-billion dollar corporation is so inept at game design that a card that papers over their screw-ups by being so overpowered that it warps the format around its existence is necessary, that's not a good thing.
Maxx C is the Shining C the game deserves but not the Black Iron that it needs.
Having Maxx C doesn't stop combo decks, it just ensures the person playing second will be able to combo harder.
and ensures dropping Nibiru :)
it ensures the person going 2 is undeniably screwed if the player going 1st has their maxx C.
maxx C being a going 2nd card is a lie: its actually a win more card for going 1st.
This man is the only TCG player I respect
Overall i think it is a good video and most of the parts i do agree, however, i think u mostly only mentioned the maxx c perspective from the first turn player. What about when the first player already has maxx c in hand and they have their combo with negates, and when it is a turn 2 player to play, they not only have to break the boards, but the get maxx c'd in draw phase? This is where i think the card is not healthy. Turn 2 is alrdy overall worse. And so bsaically, if the 2nd turn player doesnt finish the game right there, he wouldve lost in turn 3 bcs of so much advantage of the turn 1 player.
If you are a 2nd turn player and Maxx C doesn't exists, you'll lose anyways cuz of the absurd amount of negates they have on board. If Maxx C exists, both players can have both in hand but 2nd turn player has more chance of winning if his own Maxx c resolves because of all the cards he'll draw
@@sleekchaser5426 you are saying when the turn 2 player draws max c and the turn 1 player doesnt have maxx c and doesnt have a counter to maxx c, and they play into it. Who would play right into that? Any u said 2nd turn player loses anyways? What if he had dark ruler or droplet or smth like that.. board is broken.. but since ruler doesnt let ur opponent take dmg, u are just dead on the next turn bcs ur have million cards in hand coz of max c. thats the difference.
No 2nd turn player will have a chance to set their own board for next turn if they used DRNM. What I'm saying is Maxx C helps turn 2 give more fighting chance cuz being 1st turn on this game gives way, way more advantage. If they add a rule that first turn can't special summon, then Maxx c can get banned.
Maxx C shouldnt be benned because special summoning alot is available in almost every deck to the point where the second player not being able to do anything and lets not forget hand traps
Maxx "C" being at three in MD is a really good argument to play Floowanderezee, that deck is a bit annoying but not having to worry about Maxx "C" and often Call By The Grave is really nice.
I agree with what you say, this coming from a Japanese player who got back with Master Duel (so I'm probably biased in that way). Especially when considering how new cards are designed given the existence of Maxx C in the OCG, the TCG balancing becomes a nightmare, athough just making the banlist the same as the OCG would render TCG as a late OCG, which seems sort of not good, but ive never played TCG before so what do I know. In Master Duel at least, the presence of Maxx C helps control the extent of unfair combo decks, and with Crossout being limited now, I do feel fine with Maxx C. I am simply a casual player so facing unfair combo less is a plus for me. Control oriented decks give more chance for interaction and play. Like the Ishizu Tearlaments Tier 0 thing, I heard that that was controlled by Maxx C, ok Im just speaking off of rumors. Anyways, was an informative and interestIng video.
While i agree that unfair cobodecks are a huge problem, i hate maxx c as a fix for that.
Simply because the card is too unfair even in a controlldeck.
I currently play a lot of sky striker and i special summon at least 2-3 times per turn. Yes, its not gamelosing but giving my opponent double pot of greed in a controllmirror is huge.
Also not that big of a fan of the concept "lets fix a problem by literally killing about 70% of the decks in this game."
We need more and better reasons to go second aswell as less luck. Maxx c while (in a way too aggressive way) killing of all combodecks (id argue that this isnt a good thing), also makes the game more luckbased because the player drawing it having an advantige. As you said: Maxx c is broken.
I do agree that Maxx C is just a band-aid fix to the problem of modern combo decks. After all the discussion here I think the best possible solution for us in the TCG would be a new handtrap that is designed better than Maxx C but still adresses the issue, kinda like Nibiru but I want it to be not completely dead in every slow matchup
@@JoshuaSchmidtYGO While i dont agree with everything in the video, i 100% agree with this comment.
You play a deck that spams summoning for minutes on end. You are the reason maxx C is justified.
@@MrJoeyWheeler There is this really fun concept of "if you dont know what you are talking about, then dont talk about it".
The fact that you think sky striker "spams summoning" shows that you dont know what you are talking about.
So different Joshua hahaha
Saludos desde Nicaragua!!!!
This comment is a year late, but as a magic the gathering player I see yu gi oh having an issue with how to address answering cards. 'Floodgates' like Maxx C seem to be a necessary card to address format concerns. There have been times when I looked at the ban list I see ways of interacting that are totally banned and should be ways of additional play in the format. Everytime the game tries to draw cards, use recursion engines, Disrupt hand, banish cards, mill cards etc. there seems to be a fairly high power creep.
If you cannot stop your opponent from doing something because everything that does that is too powerful and will be banned then all you have is combo left. I think the game could benefit from a legendary rule of sorts. This way you cannot have 2-3 cards in your deck. This would be hard to implement without a total etrata and oracle text changing multiple cards to a one of in decks through the entire format. Cards that have very specific and special effects should be only one off's this makes banishing cards very painful and unfortunately because of the power of monster effects from the early game you will have to have a one of's change or a total ban on many cards still.
Been playing on and off since 2002 here: I can't agree with how you would go about solving the problem but I know how you mtg guys are so I'm not going to argue. I will say that the only cards that should have ever had an errata were the god cards, and that's only to make them more powerful like in the show because most of the cards that have had an errata (if not all) only had to be changed because Konami made a mistake in the first place or didn't release enough support to counter them.
I believe if Konami would move away from the whole idea of archetypes then we would have less dead cards and power creep but with things the way they are, they have all these people playing the same meta deck with little to no changes and a lot of the times it's because of how the cards are designed in the first place. (it's half Konamis fault, half the competitive player base's fault for being lazy and/or stupid)
This leads to Konami banning a lot of staple cards and in some cases printing shyte retrained versions that either end up costing a fortune or completely miss the mark and never see play.
(this is less of a problem in the OCG because the people in charge over there are less greedy and know how to run their business somewhat)
Worse yet though, we got hundreds, if not thousands of cards that might never see play again because they are used for niche archetypes that don't work with anything else.
Now this is just an example and you might not understand if you don't play, but tenyi's were DOA and still barely see play because you're locked out of summoning anything but tenyis to properly make any use of the engine, and the part that really sucks is they would have been amazing legacy support for the decks of characters like yugi and kaiba, or any deck that runs normal monster's; if they had taken the time to limit the engine in other ways....
@@leaferyvine8986 Yu Gi Oh is just a terribly built card game that endlessly loops new cardboard on top of a poorly built system. Like you said its archetypes that play vs each other instead of actual strategy. You have some amount of staples that you play in deck that seems to be a combination of hand traps or unique picks, but 95% of the deck remains the same and so does the sideboards.
It's legacy or vintage more in mtg and has the same issues as those formats (save the money issue considering dual lands like underground sea cost 500-600 each).
I agree in general that the game has a problem, but I think its an issue that can be solved if they limited the amount of cards in pool for tournament play with saying these sets play vs these sets. Until that happens you will always have an extensive ban list and Always end up playing one pile vs another.
ua-cam.com/video/iS9t99I29ic/v-deo.html&ab_channel=RedMufflerMan
its all a meme at the end of the day to us MTG players.
@@jessespence696 If they did limit things like you say for tournaments, Konami would just use it as an excuse to make more money, and I think they need to kind of do the opposite and bury archetypes in the dust by releasing a bunch of staples and such, and learn from their past mistakes, not build the game around them with more archetypes that fall out of favor; like instead of making dark magician cards out of nowhere, they need to make more lvl7/spellcaster/normal monster/dark support and then people can choose whether they still wanna play dark magicians or not.
As it is we have so many cards that will never see play competitively because they're locked to an archetype or don't get enough support in some other way, so if they don't overhaul them with erratas (which i don't think they should do if they can help it) then they'll be dead cards in the game soon, if they aren't already...
*I personally don't think it's how the game works that is the issue but the cards themselves and the lack of foresight that goes into printing them which is in a way is actually a hell of a lot worse because it's what leads people to think the game wasn't made properly and people steer away or lose interest when Konami decides to change the game to accommodate certain cards.
@@jessespence696 the game's literally a parody of mtg but at this point is almost a bad joke thanks to komoney.
@@leaferyvine8986 Maxxx C more like Maxxx Memes.
ua-cam.com/video/h86HPoTxRnU/v-deo.html&ab_channel=PharaohAtem