@dougsmonsters4866 there is actually a fair bit of input data, just not in Western nation or anglophone dominant circles. Saw and heard of field use in Ukraine for instance were they are pretty commonly used, and although not vetted by any NA orgs there is possibility that have been officially by others (edit: fwiw I wouldn't personally use them since they are not worth the cost saving vs something tested by bodies I trust and things I have more time and familiarity on. Kinda see it like other life saving and supporting equipment such as carabiners and my mountain gear, buy once cry once because a failure will result in loss of life and limb of myself or worse someone else).
As usual I found your information very useful. I am a retired officer and was an EMT for 29 years. Now I am a range officer for a LE academy. After reading several of the comments I thought I'd on share an observation. Each cadet carries a TQ for training and they are cheap Amazon TQ"s. We've used them more times than I can remember to prove to the cadets that they can still hit the target wearing a TQ's tight enough to stop profusion. So far, no TQ failures. Having said that I still carry an official C.A.T.
To be fair I’ve seen legit pressure bandages hooks fail straight out of the package. Also there is no reason US made TQ should be as expensive as they are, it’s still a piece of nylon with some plastic hardware.
@DDDarkz we actually know exactly how the CAT is made and the conditions it is made under. For starters we have a federal minimum wage and age restrictions on labor which are strictly enforced. The same can’t be said for China.
Please share your manufacturing background, and the cost analysis you have done on industrial textile and plastic injection molding manufacturing that goes into making a CAT. How much touch labor is there? How much cost goes into QA/QI?
Plastic injection moulding is not a cheap exercise... Moulds are expensive and product is relatively cheap , but how many products do you need to sell to pay off that mould before you start turning the slightest profit on that investment. Buy once cry once... I've got got super cheap tourniquets that I use for training.ill be buying tried and tested products that I'll trust with my life.
I have also heard from Ukraine, that Rhino chest seals often fail after extended time of application. Time from trenches into hospital can take multiple hours.
if its not a knock off, no way. I use them to teach TCCC and not once has it failed after time or come off after exposure. Also, time from trench to hospital takes several hours? No. It can take days!! There are no field hospitals to speak of here and Hospitals are much further than several hours.
@PrepMedic i agree, a lot of ambulances here carry some of they're stuff and most of the time it breaks, i usually buy it for training and to tell people what not to buy, they're israeli dressing are terrible, once you open them they smell like petrol or burnt plastic
@8:40 QUOTE: "... neither one had a catastrophic failure after I tightened them WAY more than I would on a normal patient and it got to the point where even the CAT started to fail". Thank you. Based on this test, I'll continue to carry the RINO TQ.
BS! I have never seen a more biased review of anything. Just how many times did you use the word "scam"? Did YOU mention other reviews done by people you don't identify under circumstances you don't describe and then take these unknowns and accept that they used the Rino appropriately? For a guy with no dog in the fight, you sure sound like one. Did I misquote you ... OR misinterpret what YOU said? Did I take this quote out of context? Let me quote you again: @8:40 QUOTE: "... neither one had a catastrophic failure after I tightened them WAY more than I would on a normal patient and it got to the point where even the CAT started to fail". YOU said you pushed both the rino and the CAT "way more than I would on a normal patient". AND YOU SAID " ... and it got to the point where even the CAT started to fail" AND "... neither one had a catastrophic failure" !!! I'll stand by it. Based on YOUR WORDS @8:40 I'll continue to carry and use this product.
It's simple for me. If I see something that's in my price range I go to youtube and see someone testing it. If it works, I'll get it. Example: I saw "skinny Medic" test one of those Amazon tourniquets. It pinched his arm, but it worked. He put on a pulse detector and everything. It did it's job. Even though it worked, he still recommended the CAT of course. With that being said, I just added a NAR CAT to my Amazon wishlist.
I respect that high quality ones should cost more and probably go under more testing, but you can't tell me it costs $30-50 dollars for small plastic and a strap. You can buy a 100ft extension or ethernet cable for $15-20. Think of how much more length that is, the different plastics and metals like copper that are in it, the complexity of sheathing the individual wires and bundling them all together, etc. It seems like the tourniquet market is a bit of a racket.
@@machuff981 ....and the exact same practice of testing applies to that type of ethernet cable - just because of possible failures leading to possible bad outcomes
QUOTE: "I remember in scouts we were taught to make a tourniquet out of a handkerchief and a stick." That was back in the 50s and 60's. You forgot about putting a rock that the Neckerchief would push onto the artery. As a footnote, I enlisted in the Army in 1970 ... and they taught us NEVER use a TQ under ANY circumstance. They told us direct pressure and elevation is all we would ever need ... the Army even gave us that pink modes thing to us as a pressure bandage. Every time I see one of those Wounded Vets (or other charitable organization helping vets) commercials on TV, all I can do is thank GOD that the vets in those commercials went into the army AFTER the ARMY started teaching Buddy Medicine, STOP THE BLEED ... and started giving everyone TQ's. I can say for a certainty that almost ALL of the wounded vets shown in those commercials would have come home in a box if they had gotten wounded in Vietnam.
@@oddshot60We were taught the same in the scouts in the '60s, with the exception of tying a knot in the middle of the hankerchief, placing that over the artery of the wounded limb. The knot applied pressure to the artery, pinching off blood flow. This was taught by one of the troops member's dad, who was a doctor. After digging my toe in the dirt for 5 years, I enlisted in '82, best decision I've ever made🇺🇸
I use them in trainnig and their are fine. Talked to people who serve as paramedics in Ukrainian war and they say that there was a lot of those tourniquets there and they worked well. Greetings from Poland.
I have bought their tourniquet because it was a good deal I live in Italy and I’m also 16 I just finished a stop the bleed course for now I don’t have enough money to invest in a CAT tourniquet maybe after Christmas I will but they seemed good enough for the price I saw some good reviews so I bought 2 for me they seem well built but I only touched one CAT 7 in my life so I can’t tell the difference plus I’m a student I’m not an emt so I won’t need them often
I tested the Chest seals vented and the normal ones. The glue was everywhere off the sides, inside the ventilation holes and it didn‘t stick to my skin well. Worst medical stuff I have ever seen. Could get somebody killed.
You make a really good point. I said that the odds of a cheaper product failing, combined with the odds of me needing one, is so low that I’m good. However, if a crap one fails say one of 10 times, that means one out of failures is with someone who needs it. I don’t think I said that well, but I’m sure you all can understand. However, there are people out there, including myself who just don’t have much money. I lost my job, no I don’t have a lot of nice stuff, and a cheap one really is better than nothing. At least for a civilian who’ll probably never need one, but Carrie’s one to the range and hunting.
If a $15 difference is what’s going to make it or break it for you, I would tell you to spend your had earned money elsewhere and practice wound packing with T-Shirts until you can afford a evidence based option.
I only carry C.A.T but had these pop up on Facebook and after looking at the sight for about 5 minutes I got super sketch vibes. Love seeing a video like this to show I made the right decision.
I get what you are saying, but it makes it sound like you'd be better off bleeding out than using one of these. If push comes to shove would you recommend a belt and a stick or one of these knock off's?
@@PrepMedic I'm oversimplifying because it's a YT comment. You know what I'm saying. If someone were bleeding and the option was knockoff or improvise... Would you attempt to use the knockoff and then deal with it if it failed, then use the remnants from the broken tourni. to improvise with or not even grab it in the first place?
@@alvinchuang2079 Absolutely. Not reaching for a tourniquet unless it's officially necessary. Going to woundpack and pressure for sure but if you are grabbing a tourni it's because shit is really bad. I guess it's a matter of the success / failure rate of improvised solutions over the knock-off. If the the Civil War option has less than 80% success rate you'd have to go with the Temu option.
You know what is scary? Last time I was at FLETC, they had these for sale in the campus store. You know there are some cops who don't know any better wandering around with these on their belt.
I agree with a lot of your points if the person uses the tourniquets professionally in the western countries. However I gotta say that the vibe of your review felt that you were extremely biased towards the product. Not everybody cares about shady marketing and not everybody can spend $35 on the tourniquet, besides ideally you want to have 10+ of them in your disposal. It is expensive for most people in the United States not even talking about the rest of the world. Not to mention that CAT tourniquet may not be available for people in many countries. For most people in most cases Rhino tourniquet will get the job done just fine. It’s immeasurably better to have the rhino rescue tourniquet than have none. I’d like to see more actual realistic tests that evaluates if the tourniquet will cut off the blood circulation. Also, the pen works. All you need to do is to pay a little more attention and see that the pen, had a tip protector that needs to be removed before use.
My thoughts exactly. Came off very NAR CAT elitist. It's not the gold standard by military specs for sure, but It's 100x better than nothing at all or trying to improvise with a tee shirt and pen.
Another thing worth mentioning for field use even if they all test well in a studio is how they are under field temps. Plenty of mystery plastic mixes get brittle and sheer off in cold conditions which many respected NA and European take into account in testing. Although not seen it on a TQ windlass I have with other none medical items so I'd rather trust something tested under conditions I am likely to use it in personally and pay a bit more than have the plastic just suddenly snap off in cold. False economy to me since I'd rather pay extra for the peace of mind of making that far less likely. The extra costs are not ALL profits on a lot of things despite what some believe but can be recouping the trialing and testing costs, design phase, as well as using known supply chain of raw ingredients and qc testing of them. There is added cost to little things like making sure the plastic is a known chain length nylon with correct size and % glass fill etc than just using whatever is cheapest blend of same family of plastics and you won't generally know that as a consumer until it fails thus hard pass from me.
Save $15 on a TQ or spend a couple grand on a funeral. If you’re gonna get legit gear, I’d only get it from North American Rescue or Refuge Medical. Those are the only sites I know that sell legit gear. Context: former Airborne 68W.
when you need multiple TQs for cars and home and at least 1 on your person it gets expensive really quick. By the time you buy a USA made item after tax and shipping they are almost $40 a piece. Are there anyUSA companies making a quality TQ that is affordable when you need multiples? Former LEO here before TQs became a thing to carry.
Is that test realistic or reflective of how it would work on a limb? I understand that this helps to check the durability of the product. It would be cool to see another test with a leg analog
I'm from Hong Kong and I can say that Chinese products are often cheaper than those from other countries because they usually sacrifice quality and safety. In their culture, these two factors can be somewhat irrelevant in production. It's fine if you just want to buy some daily gadgets from them, but if we're talking about life-critical items, putting your faith in their products might be the dumbest thing you can do before the end of your life.
If you have an FSA/HSA use that to make your medical purchases from an approved vendor. When it comes to life and death there is no guessing if the product would work.
right... thing is, last i checked NAR didn't ship TQs to europe, AND the ones i found were inflated beyond reason (like 80 bucks per tq) i get not cheaping out on tqs but like... if only they were easier to buy here
I checked the two TQs from RR that I still have packed. A plastic one and a metal one and neither of them has "Combat Application Tourniquet" written on it. I don't know where you bought it and what it is.
Hey mate, Thanks for the nice content! I am in at the moment for buying a tourniquet as well. So tried my best to gain a bit knowledge. At the you see the rhino listed newly in every German online shop. So I was wondering why all the shops start selling them recently. So I called one shop and they told me the France army and a German rescue organization named THW use the rhinos as well. So I thought that sounds decent but after video I definitely not willing to buy the cheap version even the price is interesting. Do you have any honest thoughts about the dnipro gen 2 tourniquet? Have good and save Christmas time. All the best from overseas.
Hi, ich würde dir wirklich raten: Kauf nur die CAT TQ‘s. Ich hatte erst vor ein paar Wochen die Sanitätsausbildung (Grundausbildung Bundeswehr) und wir nutzen nur CAT TQ‘s und sollen uns auch nur die kaufen, falls wir welche privat beschaffen sollten. Einfach weil diese im realen Einsatz immer zuverlässig funktioniert haben
@ Danke für dein Feedback! Es gibt ja doch einiges an Auswahl wenn man nach TQ schaut. Einige sollen ja auch regelmäßig und erfolgreich in Behörden Verwendung sein. Beim Dnipro gen 2 finde ich halt spannend das dies ein ukrainische weiter Entwicklung des CAT sein soll. Das dnipro gen 2 TQ wirk aktuell auch in der Ukraine jeden Tag verwendet. Es gab wohl CAT TQ die in der Ukraine nicht Standhalten haben plus das nicht genug zur Verfügung Standen … worauf dann jemand angefangen inländisch zu produzieren. Weisst du zufällig ob man ein CAT auch bei einem Kind verwenden darf ? Es wurde sehr selten auf den Webseiten bisher Thematisiert ob und welches TQ bei Kindern angelegt werden dürfte.
I have had multiple fake TQs (never in a kit or anything, just for training) and the quality varies widly from brand to brand. TQs from the same brand fall apart when used and others work perfectly. always buy the real thing!!!!!!!
sir .. its good & important that we should have at least one CAT tourniquet in our first aid stash .. but when SHTF .. even using a duct tape,torn t-shirt strap, belt going above the bleed is better than nothing ..
I suspect but have zero proof but suspect they may have bought out recon medical or at least their tourniquet design. However their one kit on Amazon comes with a tourniquet (could be a good knockoff) made in turkey by a legitimate company Fora that supposedly supplies the military in that part of the world. Fora is indeed a real company essentially a version of NAR. Just something interesting I wanted to share im not condoning it or bashing it either way
The thing is that since the company doesn’t give a rip about patent infringement they will just copy anything and throw it into production. For all I know the recon and the rhino were main in the same factory 😂
Started out very skeptical and was very disappointed of the way the way you where like angry for "no reason" Uuuuntil i saw the test results lmao. Thanks for the video😂
Well Thankyou for doing this video I almost considering buying one of there ifak kits. Is the dumbbell test a good test for tourniquet for future reference? 🤷♂️
My taxable-income gig is as a security officer. The security team is the designated first-aid provider until EMS arrives (if called). With this in mind, we have a gear bag in the security office with a range of first aid supplies. I, of course, opened it to familiarize myself with it, because it seemed the thing to do (why carry it if it won't have x thing to help?). The TQ in the bag was made in China. Will it work? I hope I never have to find out. If I have to use it, I will be wondering whether to place a US-made one above it and how that would affect Pt outcomes. The first aid cabinet located in a dedicated on-site treatment area has a real TQ in it (yes, I checked it). This cabinet is regularly stocked by Cintas. If I need a second TQ (after I use the one I carry myself), I'll grab or send for that one.
The craziest thing is i saw these online a few days ago and they were on sale and i was like hmmmm maybe i shoud grab a couple.... Thank god i didn't. Im from South Africa, so the problem with buying good tourniquet is that theyre DAMN expensive here because of the exchange rate. So everyone goes for rhino because they're like the middle ground for us. But I'd rather buy 4 CAT's over a year instead of buying 4 rhinos in a month.
If life saving was their business instead of profit the price would be lower and more”CAT” Tq’s would be in the hands and kits and volume of sales would make up for cheaper prices. Instead, it opens the door to competitive options from China, reducing genuine “Cat” sales. “Motorola” products are another example. Medical products are often very cheap to make, but the “healthcare” or “medical” equipment industry charges obscene prices.
Funny you say that cuz I missed a tube a few weeks ago because my king vision shut off 3 times while I was trying to locate the cords…. I’m pretty sure it is still on the truck. Smh
you put more turns on it then you would on a person on a piece of material that has absolutely no give. It is a one time use tool , having something is better than nothing.
I tightened a validated and invalidated device side by side in a climate controlled studio space with two brand new devices fresh out of packaging. 1. It shows that the validated device is superior. 2. The forces put on these devices in the aforementioned environment pale in comparison to true casualty care in non-climate controlled areas with patient movement and devices that have been worn on plate carriers or stowed in IFAKs for months, if not years.
Also, while the windlass bending is the eye catching failure, the bracket to hold the windlass collapsed on the first turn and made it very difficult to latch.
If they are arriving in significant defective numbers, some formal complaints to the Consumer Products Safety Commission should result in some tests AND A BAN ON SALES if that proves true. "For the price of a nail, the battle was lost." Don't be that guy who allows "evil."
Hello hope all is well, i was just wondering if you haven't already, can you do a review on the X8T tourniquet and the M2 2" ratcheting tourniquet or give a review on those. I recently bought both. However, i do plan on buying a CAT just thought it would be better to have a verify given people's hand abilities. But also want to make sure thwy work. Lol
you absolutely can use them as training devices. 90% of the time they WILL NOT FAIL. I use them to teach TCCC in Ukraine all the time. not one failure.
A lot of people buy those simply because they can't get the original product. It's not just a question of money. NAR won't ship those outside the USA. It's very difficult to find dealers outside the US who will sell actual CAT tourniquets. CATs have a MSN (National Stock Number), making it a regulated product that can't easily be shipped outside the US. If you live in the US you shouldn't try to save a few bucks and you should buy a real CAT. If you live outside the US you can't directly buy from NAR so you're stuck. Some years ago the NHS (in the UK) bought a bunch of fake CATs for their ambulance service. I think it was the case in Australia too. They can't buy directly from the manufacturer so they have to trust third parties sellers and sometimes those sell fake Chinese tourniquets (at the price of the real product). I'm in Europe and I have to buy my CATs from Israel. So they are shipped from the US to Israel, then shipped to Europe. It gets really expensive. For some reasons they can't ship directly from the US to Europe. So you have no way to know if you bought a genuine product even if you paid $70 for a tourniquet. For all I know they could be buying $5 fake CATs and charging me$70 for it.
That's just absolutely not true. Genuine NAR CATs and other TQs like the SOF-TQ are readily available in most countries in Europe for around 30-40€ depending on the manufacturer.
I‘m in Europe too and have to say that’s not true. 1. If you buy medical stuff from Israel it‘s not extremely overpriced. I did order Israeli Bandages for 5.99 US$. Shipping was 0.- US$. 2. Price for a Combat Application Tourniquet® (CAT®) in Europe ist currently 31.- € (including tax).
I thought all this medical stuff was all the same. I thought a bandage was a bandage. Didn’t know there was Gucci medical supplies and junky medical supplies.
Hey...we agree on something! Spend the money for the combat and medically tested real brands. BTW, a NAR TQ is only $32. Skip a few half carr double shot lattes and you will be good.
@ I understand that. Just find it coincidental that you put out your video shortly after I did similar testing and sent that email. I had STB students ask me about these and it peaked my interest. I told them that since they weren’t approved or recommended that I could not recommend them, but did my testing after.
It’s pretty hard to get quality stuff in Africa, the price difference is greater between high and “low” quality equipment if you can even get your hands on the good equipment
Not saying it’s good enough I’m definitely saving for cats, but at the time that I bought mine I felt that something was better than nothing. Although after watching this video I’m reevaluating that stance.
Be Safe Paramedical grom South Afrika Has CritiCare TQ. Out of a batch of 600 units, one failed. But I don't know the details either. Overall, several thousand of them was send to Ukraine.
Used to have Rhino chest seals in all my kits. One day decided to try one out on myself. Barely stuck to my skin. Worthless. Threw them all out and replaced with real seals. Havent trusted Rhino since.
im calling bS!!! Ive used these in training and have seen them in combat rescue operations in Ukraine and not one failed the way you describe. It was a knock off 100%
For real no, if your life is worth 15 dollars then idk what to tell you. lol Things that can save your life like combat guaze, tourniquets, don’t go cheap on that.
Thank you bro!!! The folks a refuge break them all the time in training !!! Everyone who preps can afford a genuine CAT! If u don’t….work more, save your money, get a second job.!
@ please click the link and let me know if it’s a fake store! Because if it is, I’m definitely reporting their asses! That is not ok at all. I almost bought the CAT tourniquet from this company. Please let me know.
UA-cam won’t allow links to come through. What did you search on Amazon to find it. Just because NAR doesn’t sell directly doesn’t mean that companies that use them as a supplier don’t sell their products on Amazon
I wished that video was done about a year earlier, but better late than never, i guess. (Admittedly i switched to CAT already, but it would have spared me buying the Rhinos first.) Thanks, man. I like how You explain all Your reasoning. I would have missed a couple of points there.
I've seen these and have been interested until i saw this. I'll stick with my CAT/ SOF-T. Also, the whole "made in china" arguments send me every time.😂 People will spew hate comments from their iphones and macbooks about chinese made items but refuse to by other things from there lol and they never acknowledge that the factory that built their precious iphone has suıcıde nets around the building!
I would not trust or save a buck on a cheap TQ or 3 pack special from Amazon for lifesaving gear. If memory serves I don’t believe RR is on the CoTCCC approved list. That’s the only data I need to see.
i wish that actual CATs had a version with a pen and metal windlass but for the pen do it right and use rite in the rain to make the cartridge for you. also did he check to see if the pen had a ball cover on its tip? seems he was just angry and from the start didn't want to do this right.
With modern composite plastics, metal does not equal “better” as seen in these tests. Pens in a windless is so incredibly silly. Unless you can cram a sharpy in there, there is no use. And yes I checked for a ball cover tip. I thought I got it off and then tried again and it still didn’t work.
Scariest coworker I ever had rocked a hipoint with a rhino rescue ifak.
😅u make it sound like they've been around for years
They have been around since 2010
@@PrepMedic have they really? I stand corrected. U would think there would be more input data on how they've performed in real use.
Help him
@dougsmonsters4866 there is actually a fair bit of input data, just not in Western nation or anglophone dominant circles. Saw and heard of field use in Ukraine for instance were they are pretty commonly used, and although not vetted by any NA orgs there is possibility that have been officially by others (edit: fwiw I wouldn't personally use them since they are not worth the cost saving vs something tested by bodies I trust and things I have more time and familiarity on. Kinda see it like other life saving and supporting equipment such as carabiners and my mountain gear, buy once cry once because a failure will result in loss of life and limb of myself or worse someone else).
As usual I found your information very useful. I am a retired officer and was an EMT for 29 years. Now I am a range officer for a LE academy. After reading several of the comments I thought I'd on share an observation. Each cadet carries a TQ for training and they are cheap Amazon TQ"s. We've used them more times than I can remember to prove to the cadets that they can still hit the target wearing a TQ's tight enough to stop profusion. So far, no TQ failures. Having said that I still carry an official C.A.T.
Wish I had a dollar for every person that shows up at the range with a $1000 pistol and an Amazon knock off CAT. It never ceases to amaze me.
Yup.
People will try to justify "saving" 10 bucks on a TQ but will spend thousands of dollars on complete bullsh.t
To be fair I’ve seen legit pressure bandages hooks fail straight out of the package. Also there is no reason US made TQ should be as expensive as they are, it’s still a piece of nylon with some plastic hardware.
Made in Amelica means all the profit to the corps not its workers, who knows if there is prison slave labors involved or not.
To be fairrrrrrrrrrr.
@DDDarkz we actually know exactly how the CAT is made and the conditions it is made under. For starters we have a federal minimum wage and age restrictions on labor which are strictly enforced. The same can’t be said for China.
Please share your manufacturing background, and the cost analysis you have done on industrial textile and plastic injection molding manufacturing that goes into making a CAT. How much touch labor is there? How much cost goes into QA/QI?
Plastic injection moulding is not a cheap exercise... Moulds are expensive and product is relatively cheap , but how many products do you need to sell to pay off that mould before you start turning the slightest profit on that investment. Buy once cry once... I've got got super cheap tourniquets that I use for training.ill be buying tried and tested products that I'll trust with my life.
I have also heard from Ukraine, that Rhino chest seals often fail after extended time of application. Time from trenches into hospital can take multiple hours.
Yeah I tried the chest seals on my kid and myself, they were also garbage. You know a chest seal is bad when it doesn't pull the hair up with it.
if its not a knock off, no way. I use them to teach TCCC and not once has it failed after time or come off after exposure. Also, time from trench to hospital takes several hours? No. It can take days!! There are no field hospitals to speak of here and Hospitals are much further than several hours.
@jeremycrowley8628 I recollect something about 19h. Maybe it was average of some kind.
@@jpenna1976 huge difference between several hours and 19. Anyway.
@@jeremycrowley8628 Thanks for getting stuck on detail. Point is that they can't be trusted and I wouldn't recommend anyone to buy those.
I've never open a youtube video so quickly
This has been a hot topic for awhile 😂
@PrepMedic i agree, a lot of ambulances here carry some of they're stuff and most of the time it breaks, i usually buy it for training and to tell people what not to buy, they're israeli dressing are terrible, once you open them they smell like petrol or burnt plastic
@8:40 QUOTE: "... neither one had a catastrophic failure after I tightened them WAY more than I would on a normal patient and it got to the point where even the CAT started to fail". Thank you. Based on this test, I'll continue to carry the RINO TQ.
Weird way to admit you completely misinterpreted the video!
BS! I have never seen a more biased review of anything. Just how many times did you use the word "scam"? Did YOU mention other reviews done by people you don't identify under circumstances you don't describe and then take these unknowns and accept that they used the Rino appropriately? For a guy with no dog in the fight, you sure sound like one.
Did I misquote you ... OR misinterpret what YOU said? Did I take this quote out of context? Let me quote you again: @8:40 QUOTE: "... neither one had a catastrophic failure after I tightened them WAY more than I would on a normal patient and it got to the point where even the CAT started to fail". YOU said you pushed both the rino and the CAT "way more than I would on a normal patient". AND YOU SAID " ... and it got to the point where even the CAT started to fail" AND "... neither one had a catastrophic failure" !!!
I'll stand by it. Based on YOUR WORDS @8:40 I'll continue to carry and use this product.
@@oddshot60 +1
It's simple for me. If I see something that's in my price range I go to youtube and see someone testing it. If it works, I'll get it. Example: I saw "skinny Medic" test one of those Amazon tourniquets. It pinched his arm, but it worked. He put on a pulse detector and everything. It did it's job. Even though it worked, he still recommended the CAT of course. With that being said, I just added a NAR CAT to my Amazon wishlist.
I respect that high quality ones should cost more and probably go under more testing, but you can't tell me it costs $30-50 dollars for small plastic and a strap. You can buy a 100ft extension or ethernet cable for $15-20. Think of how much more length that is, the different plastics and metals like copper that are in it, the complexity of sheathing the individual wires and bundling them all together, etc. It seems like the tourniquet market is a bit of a racket.
You’re not just paying for a piece of fabric and plastic. You’re paying for the tourniquet, the testing, the R&D, the quality assurance, and more.
@@machuff981 ....and the exact same practice of testing applies to that type of ethernet cable - just because of possible failures leading to possible bad outcomes
Thank you for doing this video!
I remember in scouts we were taught to make a tourniquet out of a handkerchief and a stick.
Before it got really weird it was awesome.
Current resealrch shows rhat improvised TQ fail >70% of the time.
QUOTE: "I remember in scouts we were taught to make a tourniquet out of a handkerchief and a stick." That was back in the 50s and 60's. You forgot about putting a rock that the Neckerchief would push onto the artery. As a footnote, I enlisted in the Army in 1970 ... and they taught us NEVER use a TQ under ANY circumstance. They told us direct pressure and elevation is all we would ever need ... the Army even gave us that pink modes thing to us as a pressure bandage. Every time I see one of those Wounded Vets (or other charitable organization helping vets) commercials on TV, all I can do is thank GOD that the vets in those commercials went into the army AFTER the ARMY started teaching Buddy Medicine, STOP THE BLEED ... and started giving everyone TQ's. I can say for a certainty that almost ALL of the wounded vets shown in those commercials would have come home in a box if they had gotten wounded in Vietnam.
@@oddshot60We were taught the same in the scouts in the '60s, with the exception of tying a knot in the middle of the hankerchief, placing that over the artery of the wounded limb. The knot applied pressure to the artery, pinching off blood flow.
This was taught by one of the troops member's dad, who was a doctor.
After digging my toe in the dirt for 5 years, I enlisted in '82, best decision I've ever made🇺🇸
I use them in trainnig and their are fine.
Talked to people who serve as paramedics in Ukrainian war and they say that there was a lot of those tourniquets there and they worked well.
Greetings from Poland.
But they aren't paid for their opinion so they don't count. Greating from The U.S. Stay free Poland.
Not to mention it took 6 to 10 emails and 2 months to get my order!
I have bought their tourniquet because it was a good deal I live in Italy and I’m also 16 I just finished a stop the bleed course for now I don’t have enough money to invest in a CAT tourniquet maybe after Christmas I will but they seemed good enough for the price I saw some good reviews so I bought 2 for me they seem well built but I only touched one CAT 7 in my life so I can’t tell the difference plus I’m a student I’m not an emt so I won’t need them often
No valid arguments. Save up for the proven stuff.
I tested the Chest seals vented and the normal ones. The glue was everywhere off the sides, inside the ventilation holes and it didn‘t stick to my skin well. Worst medical stuff I have ever seen. Could get somebody killed.
You make a really good point. I said that the odds of a cheaper product failing, combined with the odds of me needing one, is so low that I’m good. However, if a crap one fails say one of 10 times, that means one out of failures is with someone who needs it. I don’t think I said that well, but I’m sure you all can understand.
However, there are people out there, including myself who just don’t have much money. I lost my job, no I don’t have a lot of nice stuff, and a cheap one really is better than nothing. At least for a civilian who’ll probably never need one, but Carrie’s one to the range and hunting.
If a $15 difference is what’s going to make it or break it for you, I would tell you to spend your had earned money elsewhere and practice wound packing with T-Shirts until you can afford a evidence based option.
I only carry C.A.T but had these pop up on Facebook and after looking at the sight for about 5 minutes I got super sketch vibes. Love seeing a video like this to show I made the right decision.
I get what you are saying, but it makes it sound like you'd be better off bleeding out than using one of these. If push comes to shove would you recommend a belt and a stick or one of these knock off's?
You can always wound pack or give direct pressure
@@alvinchuang2079 Of course but if given the choice in the field of using the knock-off or a belt & stick which would he choose?
Brother that’s a logical fallacy. There are not only two options here.
@@PrepMedic I'm oversimplifying because it's a YT comment. You know what I'm saying. If someone were bleeding and the option was knockoff or improvise... Would you attempt to use the knockoff and then deal with it if it failed, then use the remnants from the broken tourni. to improvise with or not even grab it in the first place?
@@alvinchuang2079 Absolutely. Not reaching for a tourniquet unless it's officially necessary. Going to woundpack and pressure for sure but if you are grabbing a tourni it's because shit is really bad. I guess it's a matter of the success / failure rate of improvised solutions over the knock-off. If the the Civil War option has less than 80% success rate you'd have to go with the Temu option.
Used the metal TQ from rhino myself.. works like a charm. If it saves lives it works, that's what counts.
Also my pens on the TQs always worked, not sure what u got or did.
You know what is scary? Last time I was at FLETC, they had these for sale in the campus store. You know there are some cops who don't know any better wandering around with these on their belt.
@3:29 "these are so frickin' dumb" -- love the candor! 🤣
I agree with a lot of your points if the person uses the tourniquets professionally in the western countries. However I gotta say that the vibe of your review felt that you were extremely biased towards the product. Not everybody cares about shady marketing and not everybody can spend $35 on the tourniquet, besides ideally you want to have 10+ of them in your disposal. It is expensive for most people in the United States not even talking about the rest of the world. Not to mention that CAT tourniquet may not be available for people in many countries. For most people in most cases Rhino tourniquet will get the job done just fine. It’s immeasurably better to have the rhino rescue tourniquet than have none. I’d like to see more actual realistic tests that evaluates if the tourniquet will cut off the blood circulation. Also, the pen works. All you need to do is to pay a little more attention and see that the pen, had a tip protector that needs to be removed before use.
+1
My thoughts exactly. Came off very NAR CAT elitist. It's not the gold standard by military specs for sure, but It's 100x better than nothing at all or trying to improvise with a tee shirt and pen.
Been waiting for this video
Another thing worth mentioning for field use even if they all test well in a studio is how they are under field temps. Plenty of mystery plastic mixes get brittle and sheer off in cold conditions which many respected NA and European take into account in testing. Although not seen it on a TQ windlass I have with other none medical items so I'd rather trust something tested under conditions I am likely to use it in personally and pay a bit more than have the plastic just suddenly snap off in cold. False economy to me since I'd rather pay extra for the peace of mind of making that far less likely.
The extra costs are not ALL profits on a lot of things despite what some believe but can be recouping the trialing and testing costs, design phase, as well as using known supply chain of raw ingredients and qc testing of them. There is added cost to little things like making sure the plastic is a known chain length nylon with correct size and % glass fill etc than just using whatever is cheapest blend of same family of plastics and you won't generally know that as a consumer until it fails thus hard pass from me.
During COVID 70% of Chinese respirators failed, The knock off of the k95 . Thanks for sharing
failed against what? K95 isn't for virus sized particles to start hence masking was insane
Instead people wore cloth masks that do 0
N95 and KN95 are both very much at the virus size.
The scamdemic?
Thank you man, I kinda needed to hear this. Im gonna trust the professionals on that one
Save $15 on a TQ or spend a couple grand on a funeral. If you’re gonna get legit gear, I’d only get it from North American Rescue or Refuge Medical. Those are the only sites I know that sell legit gear. Context: former Airborne 68W.
when you need multiple TQs for cars and home and at least 1 on your person it gets expensive really quick. By the time you buy a USA made item after tax and shipping they are almost $40 a piece. Are there anyUSA companies making a quality TQ that is affordable when you need multiples? Former LEO here before TQs became a thing to carry.
Is that test realistic or reflective of how it would work on a limb? I understand that this helps to check the durability of the product. It would be cool to see another test with a leg analog
I'm from Hong Kong and I can say that Chinese products are often cheaper than those from other countries because they usually sacrifice quality and safety.
In their culture, these two factors can be somewhat irrelevant in production.
It's fine if you just want to buy some daily gadgets from them, but if we're talking about life-critical items, putting your faith in their products might be the dumbest thing you can do before the end of your life.
If you have an FSA/HSA use that to make your medical purchases from an approved vendor. When it comes to life and death there is no guessing if the product would work.
Thanks for the video. As an EMT who does special events and sometimes has to buy his own gear I've considered them before.
right... thing is, last i checked NAR didn't ship TQs to europe, AND the ones i found were inflated beyond reason (like 80 bucks per tq) i get not cheaping out on tqs but like... if only they were easier to buy here
You can buy a CAT in Europe for 30 euro at the moment.
@PrepMedic please tell me where cause I'd buy it in a heartbeat
Thank you for covering this!
They took the time to make them look pretty good. They could have made a functional product.
I checked the two TQs from RR that I still have packed. A plastic one and a metal one and neither of them has "Combat Application Tourniquet" written on it. I don't know where you bought it and what it is.
I bought them directly from rhino rescue.
if it does not say "cat" its a fake. Rhino is highly knocked off also.
I could never Willingly skimp on a piece of equipment that I may need to save the life of a family member. Its that simple.
Hey mate,
Thanks for the nice content!
I am in at the moment for buying a tourniquet as well. So tried my best to gain a bit knowledge.
At the you see the rhino listed newly in every German online shop.
So I was wondering why all the shops start selling them recently.
So I called one shop and they told me the France army and a German rescue organization named THW use the rhinos as well.
So I thought that sounds decent but after video I definitely not willing to buy the cheap version even the price is interesting.
Do you have any honest thoughts about the dnipro gen 2 tourniquet?
Have good and save Christmas time.
All the best from overseas.
Hi, ich würde dir wirklich raten: Kauf nur die CAT TQ‘s. Ich hatte erst vor ein paar Wochen die Sanitätsausbildung (Grundausbildung Bundeswehr) und wir nutzen nur CAT TQ‘s und sollen uns auch nur die kaufen, falls wir welche privat beschaffen sollten. Einfach weil diese im realen Einsatz immer zuverlässig funktioniert haben
@ Danke für dein Feedback!
Es gibt ja doch einiges an Auswahl wenn man nach TQ schaut. Einige sollen ja auch regelmäßig und erfolgreich in Behörden Verwendung sein.
Beim Dnipro gen 2 finde ich halt spannend das dies ein ukrainische weiter Entwicklung des CAT sein soll. Das dnipro gen 2 TQ wirk aktuell auch in der Ukraine jeden Tag verwendet. Es gab wohl CAT TQ die in der Ukraine nicht Standhalten haben plus das nicht genug zur Verfügung Standen … worauf dann jemand angefangen inländisch zu produzieren.
Weisst du zufällig ob man ein CAT auch bei einem Kind verwenden darf ?
Es wurde sehr selten auf den Webseiten bisher Thematisiert ob und welches TQ bei Kindern angelegt werden dürfte.
UA-camrs be like "a tq failed to crush granite total trash" or "the budget red dot couldnt chop a cord of wood"
Comment section be like “you know what I’m going to skimp on? Life saving equipment”
@PrepMedic butt hurtin butter make the butt hurtin betta
You know, if you ignore everything the UA-camr mentioned, and you also turn off your brain, then your argument makes sense
Sam’s creds go way beyond UA-camr lol
I have had multiple fake TQs (never in a kit or anything, just for training) and the quality varies widly from brand to brand. TQs from the same brand fall apart when used and others work perfectly. always buy the real thing!!!!!!!
Honestly they shouldn't even permit the sale of medical equipment that hasn't been heavily vetted beforehand.
Who is "they"?
@@papimaximus95 Government.
The US government worships the market. They sell companies to sell poison to it's citizens and the government does not care.
Yes...because the government always has our best interests in mind.
@@bobbie4862 Who said that?
Been wanting this one for a while, thank you!
What brand of supplies do you recommend? Thank you!
sir .. its good & important that we should have at least one CAT tourniquet in our first aid stash .. but when SHTF .. even using a duct tape,torn t-shirt strap, belt going above the bleed is better than nothing ..
I suspect but have zero proof but suspect they may have bought out recon medical or at least their tourniquet design. However their one kit on Amazon comes with a tourniquet (could be a good knockoff) made in turkey by a legitimate company Fora that supposedly supplies the military in that part of the world. Fora is indeed a real company essentially a version of NAR. Just something interesting I wanted to share im not condoning it or bashing it either way
The thing is that since the company doesn’t give a rip about patent infringement they will just copy anything and throw it into production. For all I know the recon and the rhino were main in the same factory 😂
@PrepMedic exactly and minus the thumb hole the
@@PrepMedic exactly and minus the hole in the red tip the similarities down to the metal windlass and pen in the windlass are the same
I got TQ from MFH 30-35 buck a piece. Are there any good?
Started out very skeptical and was very disappointed of the way the way you where like angry for "no reason" Uuuuntil i saw the test results lmao. Thanks for the video😂
Wish video about them came out sooner.
I have most of my med stuff from them now i have to replace all my rhino rescue products.. great...
Well Thankyou for doing this video I almost considering buying one of there ifak kits. Is the dumbbell test a good test for tourniquet for future reference? 🤷♂️
Its not, its hood for looking for failure points. Limbs are softer and you wont have those forces on a TQ.
Thanks for the review and information.
My taxable-income gig is as a security officer. The security team is the designated first-aid provider until EMS arrives (if called). With this in mind, we have a gear bag in the security office with a range of first aid supplies. I, of course, opened it to familiarize myself with it, because it seemed the thing to do (why carry it if it won't have x thing to help?). The TQ in the bag was made in China. Will it work? I hope I never have to find out. If I have to use it, I will be wondering whether to place a US-made one above it and how that would affect Pt outcomes.
The first aid cabinet located in a dedicated on-site treatment area has a real TQ in it (yes, I checked it). This cabinet is regularly stocked by Cintas. If I need a second TQ (after I use the one I carry myself), I'll grab or send for that one.
Solid words Sam. With you 100%. Buy the scab TQs for training I guess. Thanks for putting these up.
What's your thoughts on the Sam xt extremity tourniquet ?
The craziest thing is i saw these online a few days ago and they were on sale and i was like hmmmm maybe i shoud grab a couple.... Thank god i didn't. Im from South Africa, so the problem with buying good tourniquet is that theyre DAMN expensive here because of the exchange rate. So everyone goes for rhino because they're like the middle ground for us. But I'd rather buy 4 CAT's over a year instead of buying 4 rhinos in a month.
Ive always wondered about these. Havent wayched yet, but i was a fan of the metal windlass.
Once again, thanks for an honest review. I will avoid this product.
If life saving was their business instead of profit the price would be lower and more”CAT” Tq’s would be in the hands and kits and volume of sales would make up for cheaper prices. Instead, it opens the door to competitive options from China, reducing genuine “Cat” sales. “Motorola” products are another example. Medical products are often very cheap to make, but the “healthcare” or “medical” equipment industry charges obscene prices.
Think you could do a review on the Snakestaff EDC Tourniquet?
Funny you say that cuz I missed a tube a few weeks ago because my king vision shut off 3 times while I was trying to locate the cords…. I’m pretty sure it is still on the truck. Smh
I remember all the people talking down about Sam XT's before they were on the list.
You don’t want to be on the bleeding edge of medicine, you want to be on the cutting edge. Your patients don’t need to be guinea pigs.
I wish you had done this 2 weeks earlier haha, new to all this and just bought a 4 pack of these.
you put more turns on it then you would on a person on a piece of material that has absolutely no give.
It is a one time use tool , having something is better than nothing.
I tightened a validated and invalidated device side by side in a climate controlled studio space with two brand new devices fresh out of packaging. 1. It shows that the validated device is superior. 2. The forces put on these devices in the aforementioned environment pale in comparison to true casualty care in non-climate controlled areas with patient movement and devices that have been worn on plate carriers or stowed in IFAKs for months, if not years.
Also, while the windlass bending is the eye catching failure, the bracket to hold the windlass collapsed on the first turn and made it very difficult to latch.
If they are arriving in significant defective numbers, some formal complaints to the Consumer Products Safety Commission should result in some tests AND A BAN ON SALES if that proves true.
"For the price of a nail, the battle was lost." Don't be that guy who allows "evil."
Hello hope all is well, i was just wondering if you haven't already, can you do a review on the X8T tourniquet and the M2 2" ratcheting tourniquet or give a review on those. I recently bought both. However, i do plan on buying a CAT just thought it would be better to have a verify given people's hand abilities. But also want to make sure thwy work. Lol
I was actually planning to carry one of this but now I've change my mind lmao
Could you do a dumbbell test on a sof (the new gen that’s all plastic) 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
well this video came out just in time… i was about to order a whole lot of stuff from them
Thanks for this service
Yeah been a topic for a while because priced out citizens are from "vetted" "american made" tourniquets.
What you meant to say is evidence based and made with manufacturing regulations and rigorous QC.
@@PrepMedic could you please site the evidence and the QC standards
Some of my ifak stuff is rhino rescue. Bandages, chest seal, burn relief. Hope that doesn’t matter as much cause I got the main cat 6 tourniquet
Have you done this same test with “my medic” products?
I mean the only tourniquet that my medic manufactures is the RATS and I have repeatedly called that product out for being shit
Can I use the cat copies on aliexpress as a training device? Benn tempted so I have some actual practice without breaking the bank
you absolutely can use them as training devices. 90% of the time they WILL NOT FAIL. I use them to teach TCCC in Ukraine all the time. not one failure.
Nobody likes a RINO. With or without an H.
A lot of people buy those simply because they can't get the original product.
It's not just a question of money.
NAR won't ship those outside the USA. It's very difficult to find dealers outside the US who will sell actual CAT tourniquets.
CATs have a MSN (National Stock Number), making it a regulated product that can't easily be shipped outside the US.
If you live in the US you shouldn't try to save a few bucks and you should buy a real CAT.
If you live outside the US you can't directly buy from NAR so you're stuck.
Some years ago the NHS (in the UK) bought a bunch of fake CATs for their ambulance service. I think it was the case in Australia too.
They can't buy directly from the manufacturer so they have to trust third parties sellers and sometimes those sell fake Chinese tourniquets (at the price of the real product).
I'm in Europe and I have to buy my CATs from Israel. So they are shipped from the US to Israel, then shipped to Europe. It gets really expensive.
For some reasons they can't ship directly from the US to Europe.
So you have no way to know if you bought a genuine product even if you paid $70 for a tourniquet.
For all I know they could be buying $5 fake CATs and charging me$70 for it.
That's just absolutely not true. Genuine NAR CATs and other TQs like the SOF-TQ are readily available in most countries in Europe for around 30-40€ depending on the manufacturer.
I‘m in Europe too and have to say that’s not true.
1.
If you buy medical stuff from Israel it‘s not extremely overpriced. I did order Israeli Bandages for 5.99 US$. Shipping was 0.- US$.
2.
Price for a Combat Application Tourniquet® (CAT®) in Europe ist currently 31.- € (including tax).
Guys it is the exact same thing you don't have to spend 100 bucks on a NAR tourniquet.
Plot twist, it’s not!
I thought all this medical stuff was all the same. I thought a bandage was a bandage. Didn’t know there was Gucci medical supplies and junky medical supplies.
If they only made the CAT 7 in FDE or Coyote Brown.
Hy where you buy the OD Shirt?
Hey...we agree on something! Spend the money for the combat and medically tested real brands. BTW, a NAR TQ is only $32. Skip a few half carr double shot lattes and you will be good.
Gracias bro, palabras claras y sólidas
Cover snakestaff systems please
I emailed the Stop The Bleed Coalition about these and they told me in short they do not recommend them.
Stop the Bleed is run by the DOD so they will always defer to the COTCCC
@ I understand that. Just find it coincidental that you put out your video shortly after I did similar testing and sent that email. I had STB students ask me about these and it peaked my interest. I told them that since they weren’t approved or recommended that I could not recommend them, but did my testing after.
Sadly was cost. I purchased kit to replace items used. Seeing this I realize it's worth it ...
It’s pretty hard to get quality stuff in Africa, the price difference is greater between high and “low” quality equipment if you can even get your hands on the good equipment
Not saying it’s good enough I’m definitely saving for cats, but at the time that I bought mine I felt that something was better than nothing.
Although after watching this video I’m reevaluating that stance.
Love the channel, btw
Be Safe Paramedical grom South Afrika Has CritiCare TQ. Out of a batch of 600 units, one failed. But I don't know the details either. Overall, several thousand of them was send to Ukraine.
So I got ripped off then, with everything I bought from them, that’s what you’re saying?
Used to have Rhino chest seals in all my kits. One day decided to try one out on myself. Barely stuck to my skin. Worthless. Threw them all out and replaced with real seals. Havent trusted Rhino since.
im calling bS!!! Ive used these in training and have seen them in combat rescue operations in Ukraine and not one failed the way you describe. It was a knock off 100%
I have had the same report from a ton of people.
Claiming to make a test
But not showing the test
That's bs marketing
I have no reason to defend the brand
But I know people receive money to make videos
Even when they claim otherwise
Did you even watch the video ? upon first turn, the c clamp broke, then the black ribbon in the "TQ".
I mean, I kind of like Rhino Rescues bags a little bit. That’s about it though…
You can't imagine how many handmade or new amazing "tourniquets" were developed during war in Ukraine and how many people have died because of them.
For real no, if your life is worth 15 dollars then idk what to tell you. lol Things that can save your life like combat guaze, tourniquets, don’t go cheap on that.
That's a good argument against Rhino rescue. At the end of the day, the higher chance of saving someone's life is worth the extra money.
i have found my go-to tq for my larping adventures, rhino rescue in coyote brown!
Thank you bro!!! The folks a refuge break them all the time in training !!! Everyone who preps can afford a genuine CAT! If u don’t….work more, save your money, get a second job.!
Is the North American Rescue store on Amazon real?
North American rescue doesn’t have an Amazon store.
@ please click the link and let me know if it’s a fake store! Because if it is, I’m definitely reporting their asses! That is not ok at all. I almost bought the CAT tourniquet from this company. Please let me know.
UA-cam won’t allow links to come through. What did you search on Amazon to find it. Just because NAR doesn’t sell directly doesn’t mean that companies that use them as a supplier don’t sell their products on Amazon
@ I just typed in North American Rescue store on Amazon. It comes right up and will take you to the store. I just want to know if they’re legit lol
@ you can type it right in the search bar.
Long story short it worked.
I wished that video was done about a year earlier, but better late than never, i guess. (Admittedly i switched to CAT already, but it would have spared me buying the Rhinos first.)
Thanks, man.
I like how You explain all Your reasoning. I would have missed a couple of points there.
I've seen these and have been interested until i saw this. I'll stick with my CAT/ SOF-T. Also, the whole "made in china" arguments send me every time.😂 People will spew hate comments from their iphones and macbooks about chinese made items but refuse to by other things from there lol and they never acknowledge that the factory that built their precious iphone has suıcıde nets around the building!
I would not trust or save a buck on a cheap TQ or 3 pack special from Amazon for lifesaving gear. If memory serves I don’t believe RR is on the CoTCCC approved list. That’s the only data I need to see.
i wish that actual CATs had a version with a pen and metal windlass but for the pen do it right and use rite in the rain to make the cartridge for you. also did he check to see if the pen had a ball cover on its tip? seems he was just angry and from the start didn't want to do this right.
With modern composite plastics, metal does not equal “better” as seen in these tests. Pens in a windless is so incredibly silly. Unless you can cram a sharpy in there, there is no use. And yes I checked for a ball cover tip. I thought I got it off and then tried again and it still didn’t work.
Get a mini sharpie from an office place they are cheap and will work way better then any pen that can fit in a windlass