The Kree-Skrull War & Its Effect on Marvel's Event Comics
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
- The Kree-Skrull War was a 9-issue story in The Avengers by writer Roy Thomas that had lasting effects in the Marvel comics and now their films. This video breaks down the story and points out the techniques that writer Roy Thomas used throughout his career. It also explains how this epic story factored into later comics and films.
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I always hate when you're trying to impress a girl but she turns out to be the Super-Skrull.
Well at least she's a Super skrull and not just an ordinary skrully.
That's not so bad. Then he can morph into any girl you want.
Could be worse. She could be a Dire Wraith. ;-)
Or Mystic... But I wouldnt be so upset... Unless she turns into a guy or something!
Frankenstein077 That's a good point. Sure, Skrulls want to take over the world, but at least they don't drill their tongues into a person's skull and turn them to ashes. Oh, and the whole black sorcery thing is pretty uncool too.
This is probably one of if not the best reccomendation youtube ever gave me. I subscribed within watching 5 minutes of one of your earlier episodes really great channel and severely underrated.
I know, right? I've started watching it on my way to work one day and i'm so glad that yt recommended it
Be sure to go back and do a deep dive of his old vids!
@@papakrall lol i watched his Luke Cage video where he tracks down Dr. Doom for 200$ he has some great stuff here.
story blew my mind as a kid. so manny characters.. so many questions, didn't really know what was going on but it was one of the best summers.
Don't forget Tom Palmer's inks.
Just finish reading this run this morning, pretty damn good
Not a war according to the MCU, is was genocide of the innocent Skrull........
Chris is a secret Kree who was originally named Koh McTropes. He bleeds blue. You heard it here first!
An Irish Kree- The most dangerous kind!
Koh'Meec K'Tropes, a noble Kree warrior indeed
@@edwardide5323 It IS March...
It all makes sense! How else would he have the incredibly advanced automoton Infotron in his possesion!
Imagine not needing to get 59 tie in issues to get a full storyline
Trully savage times back then
Doing a big event is hard because you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. If you don't have tie ins the story dosn't feel important to the Marvel/DC universe, if you do you can't have the tie ins be too important because not everyone mihgt read them but there needs to be somthing there for people who DO read them. Also there's the matter of how big events derail books from their intened storylines, i think the best solution to that is what Marvel has donde the last couple of times: leave the main ongoing alone and have a miniseires that ties in to the big event, but that way has also has some problems
Dante Crottogini yeah. I think Annihilation handles it the best. You get the full story if you just get the main book. But the tie ins don’t feel like your missing key information to enjoy the overall story.
Sick burn on DC. They definitely go overboard with their massive events.
Funny how I was about to comment the same thing I commented 4 months ago.
Quicksilver can do homing attacks like Sonic confirmed.
I'm so glad i'm not the only one who made that connection. I am now wondering if that was intentional on Sega's part. Super speed = ballistic attacks
Back when continuity mattered.
I kinda wanna say...
…was *made* to *matter.*
_ㄧ 工 Am The 1ℨᵗʰ 👍!ǃ!_
Like your channel! Ever do a video on misleading covers?
Great idea!
Old comic book covers were the original form of clickbait
@@rellikbackwards2308 Flip-bait.
So many covers writing checks the interior couldn't cash. I've been suckered by them my whole life.
@@rellikbackwards2308
Golden and Silver-Age DC is so guilty.
I would say Roy Thomas was responsible for making *The Avengers* go cosmic, just like how Stan Lee and Jack Kirby expanded the Marvel Universe following the famed *Galactus Trilogy* in *The Fantastic Four* #48, 49 and 50 in 1966.
56postoffice Honestly a lot of the best elements of the Avengers came from Roy Thomas.
Captain America as team leader. Hawkeye and Scarlet Witch permanent transition into heroes. Hank and Jan being recurring characters in those books instead of solo heroes. Debut of characters like Jarvis and Vision. Creation of villains like Ultron, Grandmaster, Grim Reaper and Squadron Supreme. A lot of key Avenger mythos came from the guy.
@@BigK13372 👌
Awesome! Neal Adams art for Marvel Comics is too often overlooked when discussing his career. His work on the Avengers and especially the X-MEN was brilliant!
His Ant-man solo story on Avengers is my favorite of his Marvel work.
Yes. His x-men run is sometimes forgotten. X-men 59,. I think that's the one,is amazing. His pencils in avengers 93 are some of his best work for marvel.
this is my favorite channel, this shows the best and I sometimes wish that these videos never ended
IKR I think it is crazy this channel only has 45k subs
Just found this page within the last week. It’s my favorite comic page
I like that you point out how Roy Thomas was instrumental in turning the Marvel Universe into the shared superhero universe as we know it today.
Lee and Kirby in Fantastic Four were very much operating in an older serial mode always moving things forward, introducing new characters and settings, ending things on cliffhangers. Ditko was a bit more programatic in his approach, but kept Spider-Man and especially Doctor Strange pretty much in their own worlds.
Of course, there were some crossovers now and then, but Thomas was the one who started to look backwards and tie things around, to mine events from a title (Fantastic Four) in order to push what happens in another (Avengers), making for a much more tightly knit universe.
Great video this week! I'm surprised you didn't point out that, during Ant-Man's trip into the Vision (himself a modern version of a Golden-Age character), he discovered components inside Vish which were from decades prior. That would set the stage for Vision being identified as a repurposed original Human Torch a few years later. Roy Thomas tropes at their best.
Another Great video( But how DARE you not give Vision his props. Quicksilver did indeed use his "cannonball " moveon Goliath but it didn't take him out. Vision did, using his Disruption move. All the while fearing he could seriously injure the giant.) THIS storyline, was but the first of MANY, that showed why the AVENGERS are "the big Leagues", consistently playing for high stakes(Thanos/Cosmic Cube/ Gems, Avengers/Defenders War, Kang/Celestial Madonna, Squadron Supreme/Serpent Crown, Olympians, Loki etc.)....These books aided me in getting through a tough, poverty stricken childhood. AVENGERS Has been my favorites ever since. Always. Great stuff man.
"Event comics " like the "Crisis on Infinite Earths" made me quit buying comics back in 1990. Being obliged to buy an issue of a series I had no interest in because it was part of a story in something I did follow was just too much. I was 36 so it was probably about time.
Get your events time line straight
You could just not buy all the tie-ins. Works well enough for me.
I just consume the Main Story
I love you and I love what you do, but honey. I know that you know that Captain America wasn’t a founding Avenger.
Well, actually... Sometime after Cap joined, the original Avengers decided to adjust their charter. They officially voted out the Hulk and added Captain America as the fifth founding member, specifically because Cap was a mainstay of the team and another bylaw of the charter demanded that at least one founder should be active at all times.
Jef Willemsen haha thanks, nerd! 🖖 jah bless!
Rick Jones and Mar-Vel seemed to be a nod to Billy Batson and Captain Marvel, at least that's how I saw it when I was a kid in the 70's. I wish they would bring Rick Jones into the MCU. I think I'll re-read these issues. Thanks, Love your videos.
Dude like 80% of my life now I have “co-mick tropes! Doo doodooo “co-mick tropes!” Stuck in my head
Fantastic vid & topic! The next time that I believe Marvel had a blueprint to the modern crossover event was in Jim Starlin’s original Thanos saga that ran mainly through Captain Marvel but also tied into Iron Man, Marvel Feature, Avengers & Daredevil during the 70s. Great stuff, made me a “Marvel Cosmic” fan for life!
One of the few Marvel Masterworks I own is Avengers Vol 10 (grabbed it for half price). Which is the Kree-Skrull War. Whats even better its now both signed by Neal Adams and Roy Thomas (two separate shows years apart). As Roy was about to sign it he was like yeah that was a good one. He then later in his panel said Kree-Skrull War was his favorite story he wrote.
At the time of this run I was a teen-ager, living in some godforsaken hole in the Middle East, occasionaly sneaking off to the big city (Haifa - Rose of The Carmel and Port to Israel!), to a run-down used-books shop, which would occasionaly have some mangled old comics (usually carried by ships which used it as ballast...). Imagine my surprise and delight, when I came in one day, to find a sparkling new, double-sized Avengers book! It was Avengers #93, drawn by Neal Adams at his peak, inked by Tom Palmar who was just killing it, featuring a dumb-yet-mind-blowing tale of Hank Pym rummaging through Vision's innards, while Cap and Thor and IM are busy striking ever more impossible Adamsian poses... To this day I get chills running up and down my spine, just thinking about it!... Was never a big fan of Thomas, and the drop-off between the issues drawn by Sal B and those done by Adams and big brother John was way too steep, but that was truly one of the biggest events of post-Kirby Marvel. Thanks again, Chris, for another excellent run down memory lane!
A common misconception is to link Senator McCarthy and "his" House Un-American Activities Committee (HUAC). This, of course, is non-sense as McCarthy was a senator and HUAC was a committee within the House of Representatives.
I love Roy Thomas' work! Some of my favorite titles he worked on are Arak, Son of Thunder, the Invaders, and the All Star Squadron. Great works!!
Totally agree about All Star Squadron and even Young All Stars. :)
Just a small correction: Captain America wasn't a founding member of the Avengers. After the Bronge Age, Steve Rpgers' first appearance was in Avengers no. 4, after the Avengers had been formed. But it led me to my favorite series of the Avengers, even with Don Heck's art:: Cap, Hawkeye, the Scarlet Witch, and Quikselver.
You’re right, but he was given founding member status.
You mentioned that the Kree are at an evolutionary dead end. Allow me to toss out a fan fiction thing that will never be, but appeals to me nonetheless. The original story about Superman was that Krypton was a planet where mankind had evolved to its pinnacle: everyone was stronger, faster, tougher than human beings. There was none of this "yellow sun" business; Superman's powers were all about evolution. So Kryptonians are mankind at its physical peak. Meanwhile, the Kree are humans (more or less) albeit much stronger and tougher, but at an evolutionary dead end. But wait, isn't that the same thing as the Kryptonians? Is there a connection between the Kryptonians and the Kree? They even have a similar name. Again, this is a ludicrous fan fictional theory and it will never come to pass, but I like it.
Whie Roy's run on Conan with Buscema is good, his run on Conan with Barry Smith is great. Also great: His work on the issues of Avengers that immediately follow the Kree/Skrull war with Barry Smith leading up to Avengers #100!!! To hell with buying Twitter. Musk's money would be better spent buying Marvel from Disney and getting these creative teams together once again.
Roy originated the sliding Marvel Timeline, too. This added to the quasi- realism which made Marvel fun in the 80s. The concept of roughly 7 to 10 years of chronological history couldn't remain elastic forever, but it was very cool.
That quicksilver Attack move against Goliath Is the inspiration for Sonic...
I was fortunate to grow up with Marvel's Silver Age and bought the Kree Skrull run of the Avengers off the spinner rack. I remember Avengers #93 with Neal Adams-Tom Palmer art and Ant-Man's Fantastic Voyage through the Vision as one of the coolest comics of the era.
Yep, Roy Thomas took Stan Lee's mediocre title "the Avengers" and made it epic.
Don't smack talk McCarthy. The Venona transcripts showed he was correct.
Very informative video, I agree that this seems like a precursor to modern event comics. I love the variety of your channel. Thanks for the upload!
Roy Thomas and John buscema! Wow, they wrote and drew almost everything in my childhood.
1 - Roy Thomas could tie anything together. He was to remote but plausible connections what Peter David is to snarky yet respectful looks back at past stories.
2 - He was going to, at one point in his run on DC's All-Star Squadron, finally define once and for all why the Pre-Crisis OIE Supermen were especially vulnerable to magic. But with COIE, stories like that and Superman under a white sun never came to be, since they were too laced up with the old continuity to drill down that far.
3 - His letter columns inside the books were chock-full of his musings on the stories, both freely given and in his response to readers. I'm told that frequently, digital reprints do not include these, which is a damn shame.
4 - Roy felt betrayed by Wolfman, DC and COIE overall, since he was originally promised a set-aside for Earth-2 in this. He even later learned that Wolfman, once his protege, had been plotting COIE since he was a kid, so this wasn't just a change of heart.
5 - Roy apparently fell badly afoul of Jack Kirby at some point. In his post-Marvel DC book Mister Miracle, two recurring hucksters and con men bordering on villains were the slick promoter Funky Flashman and his obsequious assistant, Houseroy. Since Flashman was based on Stan, the math is easy on Houseroy.
6 - Later stories would show that those Skrull cows had after-effects--yeccch.
Just one nit: McCarthy and HUAC (House Committee On Un-American Activities) were separate but related entities. McCarthy was splashy if vague accusations made for showboating and grandstanding. Among his aides was a man named Roy Cohn, who is one of the sleaziest figures in American politics, bar none - with one very highly placed mentee in highest office as we speak. HUAC did seek publicity as it ground people up, but it did so more quietly, and more deliberately and if possible, with more malice. But they also were phonies - two of their most frequent witnesses were Walt Disney, as a friendly witness naming names (Walt had his ego bruised by a labor dispute in the early 40's) and Earl Browder. Earl Browder was the President of the CPUS - The American Communist Party - so I guess you could say he was and had always been one. Not much to be uncovered there. In neither case, Senate or House, did they uncover a single Communist not already known to authorities. IMO, they were in place to punish dissent from their POV, not hunt actual threats.
Roy later revisited McCarthyism in 'America Vs. The JSA' miniseries which told (in full, Gerry Conway had written the first story) of how a McCarthy-type figure forced the JSA to shut down in the early 50's.
Always a joy seeing a new Comic Tropes episode on my feed.
This was hawkeyes worst era. Not even that mad he was Goliath for no reason, they made him a Ahole.
Great video Chris! Marvels cosmology has always been super interesting imo. Have to say my favourite event comic is Annihilation, thought it really showed how large the stakes could be in a interstellar war. Keep up the great work and we'll keep reading comics!
Super fast blue dude who keeps rolling into a ball? Quicksilver is Sonic the Hedgehog!
Everything is good but you fell into a common misconception. SENATOR McCarthy did not lead the HOUSE Un-American Activities Committee.
Lists of the best comic stories of all time sadly forget this run. Recency bias. Great video as always.
I just finished re-reading the Kree-Skull War. Two things stuck out to me. First, the comic doesn’t really show any of the “war”. Second, it definitely seemed to me that Roy Thomas was making it up as he went along. I think this was in the days before writers and editors would pre-plan their multi-issue story arcs.
by Thomas' own admission, he absolutely was making it up as he went along
I had the pleasure of asking him the question directly as he was at comic con Paris last year. When I brought him the book to sign, he asked me if I had read it already or if I had just bought it. Told him I had read it, and he asked me if I tought the plot was confusing, I said no, but there where however confusing elements to the story such as scarlett witch powers.
That's one of the things that bugged me when I read the comic : she is not only practicly useless, but also very inconsistent. In one panel of the book, she says something along the lines of "Guys, I know my powers have been useless until now, but I have a feeling this time i'm going to be usefull". I tought this line was self aware, so I asked him about it. His answer was to laught and tell me "Well yeah, no one really knew what her powers where at the time, we kinda wrote whatever helped the story better".
So, yeah the story wasn't the only thing he made up as he went :p
Excellent video! I read Kree/Skrull Wars as a kid and in 2021 finally have the Avengers Marvel Masterworks 89-100! Great era of comics! Could you do a review of Avengers/Defenders Clash from 1973? Thanks again for your enthusiasm and creative ways to make great videos! Always keep reading comics!
while he's explaining the story, close your eyes and hear the word "Skrulls" as "Squirrels"
now you cant unhear that. And you have a silly scenario playing out in your imagination.
It's extremely ironic that he wanted to make a statement about McCarthy, but then had insurgents that could literally be anyone.
I didn't know Quicksilver was a Sonic the Hedgehog fan. Guess it makes sense tho, gotta go fast
Just for the record Senator McArthur and the House Un-American Activities Committee are separate things. One is in the House and obviously the other a Senator.
I found this to be one of Marvel's worst stories. Antman going into Vision's body is the only truly memorable moment, the rest was just various shades of pastel vomit 👎
5:30
This is also a reference to the fact that Yellow Jacket would once again give into his beastly urges and attack Wasp, but this time as a human
Roy Thomas' work on Conan during the '70's was awesome! Some of my favorite comics growing up.
In fact, every artist who worked on Conan till Dark Horse seemed to bring their A-game with the art.
Regarding Vision and if he is sentient or not. Why not use an empath or telepath to connect to androids like vision, so they can feel there is something in there. And then connect themselves with the judges or senators so they too can feel the presence of a consciousness?
We should have seen quicksilvers hurling ball maneuver on the big screen. I feel cheated.
"I'm Rick Jones, bitches!"
Wait, thats not right...
this event along with the Fantastic four's early 100's run where you get the very rare Magneto interacting with other Marvel characters, this was a huge step towards new thing to come in marvel. p.s. Namor is so in that FF/Magneto ark.. kind of a prelude to things to come , in just a few short years Marvel launches the short lived Super villain team up comic. what fun times this was.
Awesome video Chris, I get such a thrill watching & laughing at them!!!! Keep it up.
Ended up liking RT’s writing more than Lee.
I subscribed purely because of these intros.
In the Disney CLASSIC cartoon series, Avengers - Earthe's Mightiest Heroes, they retell this story with Marvelle, Carol Danvers, Ant-Man and the Wasp, along with the Avengers and even Ronan the Accuser. The Avengers - Earth's Mightiest Heroes is the best Avengers series ever made but it only lasted two year for some reason. It was replaced by that Childish Avengers Assemble series, which was dreadful.
The reason was that the first Avengers movie was so successful that made the Marvel Animation executives change their minds and make a cartoon based on the movies and be on the same continuity as the infamous Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon.
You and Comicbookgirl19 are my favorite channels. Keep up the awesome work and enthusiasm.
I actually like this event, not everything has to be a big reboot
At 9:30, Captain America only has 4 fingers on his hand. Woops! Lol!
Ter Kane Good catch. Looks like the inker probably missed inking it because the hand looks like it was supposed to be slightly wider.
Probably so. The index finger looks thicker than the others too. Flubs happen all the time, but I've never seen that big of a flub before, lol!
My wife has been acting funny maybe she is a skrull.
Another great episode! If you do a full-on Carol Danvers Captain Marvel episode, might I suggest focusing on her “in-between” period when she was hanging out briefly with the X-Men and became Binary?
Second that notion. People nowadays forget that she has a significant impact on X-Men mythos besides “Girl Whose Powers Rogue Stole”.
Please do an episode on Roy's masterpiece Avengers under siege.
Possibly the greatest Avengers story ever told.
Man...I had this run and a bit more, ah I want to say issues 89-101. Hell of a story and I totally love #93s Neal Adams interiors.
To be fair the first "event" was "Crisis on Earth-One!" from 1963.
Great call back to FF#2 in this issue. Skrull cows are my favorite.
The Neal Adams Kree-Skrull war reprints were the first marvel comics I ever bought and completely stole me from DC for a while.
I tried summarizing the Kree-Skrull war to my girlfriend and couldn't remember all the details from when i read it as a teen. Thanks for making this video i was able to show her after she saw Captain Marvel. Will you be at Emerald City Comic Con this year? If so, do you have a booth? If so I'd love to personally stop by to say how impressive your research is and how enjoyable your videos on youtube are! Much cheers and appreciation! -Rob
I will be there on Friday but as a regular attendee wandering the floor.
@@ComicTropes Cool! If you need break from the crowds at some point, lemme know and i'll buy you a Fremont Brewing’s "Dark Heron" -the Official Beer of ECCC 2019! :)
The skrull who was Senator Craddock was the fourth skrull from FF #2 -- the one who impersonated Sue. And so Roy Thomas answered possibly the oldest question in Marveldom at the time: What happened to the Fourth Skrull? Thomas was one of the first peddlers of Continuity Porn...
Great take on a great story!! Roy's contributions to Marvel (And the medium) can't be overstated. Very similar development of the "Old school" to the somewhat contemporary developments and evolution in Rock music taking what the founders (Chuck Berry, Elvis, Carl Perkins, etc) built and expanding on it exponentially.
What a crazy story. All over the place.
The avengers defenders clash was a good one,i would like to see you do that one ,and great show
The Kree/Skrull War was a copy of Kirby's New Genesis/Apokolips War, and even Thanos -- who played such a prominent role in future Marvel crossover "events"-- was a copy of Kirby's Darkseid. So, by your reasoning, it was Kirby's Fourth World -- not the Kree/Skrull War -- which was the true progenitor of all future crossover events in comics.
Idea: Norman Osborne decides to fire up the cloning technology to fuck with Spiderman some more. Except he decides to clone Aunt May. He then pays an actor to pretend to be Aunt May, while he has kidnapped Aunt May and is preparing the Aunt May clone army... who for some reason has spider powers--perhaps Norman Osborne's cloning methods are in need of repair.
Spiderman eventually stops Norman Osborne--after this whole matter really really fucking with his head. He gets to the chamber holding Aunt May--when Norman Osborne throws a pumpkin bomb... and kills Aunt May. Only to have Aunt May revert to a Skrull.
With Norman Osborne even kind of confused with a, "wait... she was a Skrull the whole time?"
Also... for added fun... have a couple Doom Bots pretending to be Aunt May wandering around... apparently there to interfere with Norman Osborne kidnapping her... as it turns out several attempts to kidnap Aunt May resulted in Norman Osborne kidnapping a Doom Bot.
I'm certain more can be added here... for the revolving door of death that usually only applies to Super Heroes--but also seems to apply to Aunt May.
literally caught this video when it had 0 views, too bad i left it open in another tab to finish another one haha
This story is completely let down by its ending. No one cares about the Marvel Golden age characters, except Cap, and having the characters popping out of Rick’s end be actual people who exist in that universe and not fictional beings undercuts what’s going on.
Cpt America is only a retroactive founder, having not been found and thawed out until Avengers #4. As much as I like Cap, I don't consider him a true founder.
18:08 It was called the All-Star Squadron!!!! I know I'm late, but I love that series, please don't brush over it without naming it!
Otherwise, really enjoying your series, thank you !
I loved that
A truly great series. Roy Thomas was also great on Marvel Conan the Barbarian.
Did anybody else notice Captain Americas’ 4 fingered hand at 9:29 lol
Why did they draw Cap with only 4 fingers ?!?! O_o
great video, reminds me of the marvel trading cards the way you did this video
I wonder if anyone else here enjoys the early 90's Operation Galactic Storm cross over?
Re: Quicksilver: And people say Bouncing Boy has a dumb power!
Wouldn't you say that the Mutant Massacre event had vast importance in creating the crossover event?
best channel, great topic! You should do a vid on the NEW UNIVERSE. i think it tells a bit about the history and power struggle at marvel comics. could be interesting!
Even in a world where man and machine lived together, I would agree with the senator. The government probably wound have no way of knowing if the Vision has been tempered with. What if he had been programed to think that a lie was actually truth? Could he be held responsible for lying in court?
Pudinzinho of the East People are programmed everyday with various propaganda.
At this point I doubt any AI could be any more convincing than person that believes all the lies they are told.
@@willc9235 But no propaganda in the world can make Johnny forget that Maria indeed killed her husband. But I know what you mean.
David Icke does not approve of this upload.
What an impressive shape shifter Chris is
I DID not know Goliath was Hawkeye, or I’d forgotten.
Quicksilver was really going Sonic the Hedgehog on their asses
Ummm this video only has Portuguese caption...
ok
Not on topic but god the death of captain marvel was such a beautiful, sad story.
“You caught me practicing my shape shifting”. Ha ha ha you make me chuckle ..often ... ha ha
My mouse is broken so I can't skrull.
Mutant massacre started the event of the year nonsense and destroyed anything resembling creativity.
8:30 - Danvers was also Binary and Warbird, yeah?
Can you do Annihilation by Keith Giffen at some point too? Thanks for the video.
this story was really awesome