I think it would be helpful for all your customers to show the set up procedure for each of the configurations that you sell, such as the 3000k EG4 inverter or the Growatt, with the lifepower eg4 batteries and so forth. Also, maybe hire somebody with video production experience to help direct more professional looking videos that would show close-ups and and more thorough step by step instructions. For the amount of products Sig Solar is selling, to predominantly the DIY crowd, you need to step up the video production, because I am sure your tech help desk is fielding the same questions over and over.
I think this is really valuable input Longbow is providing. My read on Sig Solar (and I am almost for sure going to purchase my batteries, rack, and inverters from them) is they are REALLY good people with really good products primarily for DIY and then also for pros. However, they are Nurds (good Nurds) and they know their stuff and they know solar in general really fricken well. But most of us are not Will P. or some other person making our living doing solar UA-cam stuff. We are trying to do our home (on or off grid), off grid cabin, work shop, ......... and we are most likely trying to do it right and do it once. So, ....... we don't have the total knowledge and skill set and need as Longbows is suggesting. OR, what happens is what is happening at SS, the Tech/Customer Service is overloaded and people are getting frustrated (the only reason I haven't put in my order). Much of that frustration and a significant part of that overload could be eliminated with really clear Gerber-spoon-fed tech videos like these. Sure, the more knowledgeable will complain and write long self-serving responses, but in the end, everyone gets what they want. Take Longbow's input.
Great video, please add more content like this with the dual 6500EXs in split phase mode. Demonstrate initial setup of each inverter and go through the different modes. Add cabling diagrams and setup options for running with GRID input please!
@@SignatureSolar Yes please do. After seeing this video, I ordered the same setup. Now I have to find a tall server rack. Please show videos of how you added the bus bars into the rack for the battery hookup.
I've ordered (and received) two of the batteries and am waiting on the two inverters (backordered) to arrive. I'd look forward to seeing the mentioned video on connecting all of the components as well. I also ordred a dozen of the 445 Watt Bifacial panels and am wondering about how best to string those with the two inverters. I'll be adding a lot more in the future so having an idea about the initial string setup would be greatly appreciated.
Why in the world would you not have the resistor charging procedure in the Battery Manuel? I bought 3 of the lifepower 4 batteries and knew it had a resistor in the battery to charge the invertor on startup. Read the manuel on the eg4 3k inverter and the Lifepower 4 battery and it's not mentioned anywhere. Started it up and just like your video the batteries all shut off. Did this several times and now my first battery has a SOH of 99.90% Finally saw a video by Will Prowse that explained the procedure.
Answer to first question, if it is in fact not in the manual, because the manual is put together by humans, this is a new product that is very unique compared to normal things and humans make mistakes.
Can I ask how you designate what's going to run off your batteries? I'm investigating using this setup but if I'm not running my whole house how do I run just a few appliances? Did you have to rewire those circuits out of your house pannel to this new setup? Thanks I can't find videos showing people connecting these to a house
@@dshudson I have a dedicated electrical panel in the laundry room powered by my inverter/batteries. I run dedicated circuits out from there (centrally located). I'm not connecting into my grid panel at all. Everything except the bedroom mini split can be plugged back into the grid. For instance, I ran a dedicated circuit in EMT Conduit to the dryer. But the grid plug is still in place. Basically have two plugs, one is grid, other is solar. As for designating what runs off the solar setup, to be honest, I winging it. 😄 I initially bought the system to power the laundry room and add a mini split to my bedroom. But it works so well, I've been adding other things to it, like another small mini split and refrigerator. Dryer only runs in the day when I'm making power, fridge doesn't take much juice, and the mini splits are so darn efficient that I usually have 50% battery left in the AM. Fortunately, it only drops into the 30's at night, so I only run the mini splits in the AM to get the chill out. Live in AZ, so I typically get enough sun to make all the power I want.
@@genxgamerdad141 actually one more question. How many pannels do you have and what voltage are they. And how long does it take to charge your batteries thanks
Great video just one point at about 1:31 you say "open" and then say this means "on". Perhaps a simple misspeak but open is off and closed is on. Thank you, martin
Thank you for this video. Just like "Oily Care" I'd like to see the complete set up for split phase and demo how you would hook up a critical load center, how you would combine input and out put in the same panel (or is this possible?), especially the ground neutral configuration, or do we need a separate transfer switch (please show). Also follow through with total set up of same with the inverters. Also, some close ups during the video would be extremely helpful. Thanks so much for your help (Chris Haymond)
I would love to know what rak you used here! Looks like a 10 stack based on the height of the service rak. Seems more logical for the inverters facing outward. Also seems very shippable assembled if on wheels.
Three batteries and two 6500 ex's here. Almost have all hardware ready to go, this was a helpful video prior to reading the manual, thanks for sharing!
Good luck indeed. Let me know if you can get your inverters to communicate with the batteries. The word out is they don't. Get error 61 within minutes of start up for most as i see on the forums.
Great video. Do you have a video of you building the system that you used to demonstrate the startup? I would like to build something similar, maybe with four batteries instead of six.
Air compressors are notoriously difficult to start up with solar systems. That high inrush current and inductive load trip most systems. I can't think of a better test. Thank you for showing the "minimum" system that can run heavy inductive loads.
We have a 24V, off-grid solar setup (1,200 Watts PV, FM80 controller and VFX3524 inverter charger) with two 24V 200AH LifePOwer4 batteries and are unable to startup a handheld "Skillsaw" circular saw without crashing the batteries! We are also unable to fire up a 10" Craftsman radial arm saw. I was impressed to see that you could do could fire up the air compressor! Why can't we even fire up a little Skillsaw?
How did you ground the inverter and the batteries with having the inverters mounted to the same cabinet? I have a lifepower4 battery and a 3k EG4 inverter and they are mounted on the same metal frame,I have live voltage everywhere. Did you put spacers in between the inverter and the cabinet so the inverter frame is not conductive to the server rack? How does this not create a ground loop?
I recently installed my Growatt 12KW inverter and 4- EG4-LL batteries in the rack system using the top 4 rack spaces. I currently have 8 of your Bluesun BSM460M-72HBD panels configured in 4S-2P on one MPPT via a watts24/7 charge controller. My other 10 panels are on back order to wire up the second MPPT. I am considering going 3S-3P for each MPPT when the remaining panels arrive. I used the 25mm2 gauge wire you provided for the 4 EG-LL's pulling the positive and the negative from the top of the rack system busbars. I ran this for a couple weeks with two 110V output circuits to test the system and noticed the batteries drained down evenly. I just received and installed the remaining two EG4-LL's in the bottom two spaces to complete the rack and this time reversed the negative bus bar per Will's comments so that the main negative pulled from the bottom of the bus bar. I also replaced the 25mm2 battery feed cables with equal length 4/0 cables. I then went off grid for the past 6 days, back feeding my house panel on a 60 amp breaker. I was surprised to see that the two newer EG4-LL's installed at the bottom of the rack were draining down much faster. This morning reading show from top to bottom in the rack with all 6 showing 52.2 volt but the amp draw as follows; #1 0.9A 44% #2 0.9A 44% #3 0.9A 43% #4 0.9A 44% #5 3.0A 37% #6 2.9A 38% The difference in the SOC has been between 10-20% between the top 4 and the bottom 2 batteries to the point that I shut off the lower two batteries last night. I am considering changing the negative bus bar back to the original position and would appreciate your input.
I ended up keeping the positive top left and the negative bottom right on the bus bars. I was told by SS that it takes time for the newer batteries to settle in so I kept it that way. Here are my SOC reads today from top to bottom. 54,46,49,53,48,51.
Hey Guys, Thanks for the video. When demonstrating loads, I think it would be helpful to have household appliances like microwave, induction hob, electric oven, vacuum cleaner, etc. Maybe with video of the Wattmeter on the Display.... you know, to give folks an idea... I'm running the 5000es w/ 2 eg4s, and midpoint transformer...
It would help very much if all speakers on your Signature Solar UA-cams would wear a mic to speak into. I uses most of these videos but have to turn the sound away up. Please get mics for all your speakers.
Signature Solar great video. I agree with a few others, it would be great to see a video where this is used with solar. One question though, in researching other sites that reviewed this product, they talked about this unit uses a lot of standby power. Any way to offset that wasted battery power other than adding another battery and more solar panels?
Thanks for the video. What's the sequence for the EG4 LL batteries? It has a BMS power button and a breaker where the Lifepower4's seems to only have a breaker for turning it on. For the EG4 LL, do you turn the breaker on then push the BMS button so the inverter caps get charged slowly? The DC breaker inbetween the batteries and inverter are closed beforehand in both cases...
The order does not matter on the battery itself as long as any in-line breakers on the positive line and battery input breaker on the inverter is on before any battery breakers
Can someone please explain to me what just happened in this video at 1:15? We have an Outback VFX-3524 Inverter charger and we cannot get it to fire up even with TWO LifePower4 24V, 200AH batteries connected to it!! We HAVE to turn on the FM80 charge controller and THEN turn on the PV panels and WAIT for the charge controller to start producing power on a sunny day and ONLY THEN we can flip on the VFX3524 without crashing the batteries. What are we doing wrong? Are we supposed to flip up the paddle to the inverter first and THEN turn on the batteries?? It looks like he is connecting the inverter to the batteries first, then turning on the battery and THEN turn on the inverter?? The Outback VFX3524 does NOT have a power switch on it.
Great video, thanks! Got a question concerning the 24 volt model battery that does not have a breaker..... If the On Off switch is in the Off position, will it take a charge from the solar array? Thanks in advance.
What is the startup procedure for the EG4-LL, which has a separate circuit breaker switch and a BMS switch 🤔? In your video the circuit breaker and BMS are mechanically connected to each other. Should I close the EG4-LL circuit breaker first and then turn on the BMS switch in order for the current limiting resistor to function?
I saw your question after I asked the same thing, but noticed nobody answered. Is what you suggested the way to do it ie, close the EG4-LL circuit breaker first and then turn on the BMS switch?
Lovely video. I intend to have 8 x 15kw battery rack to run main house off grid and 3 x 1 bedroomed apartments. How would I set up my eg4 18kw inverter and 3 x 5kw spf growatts with the 20% rule. I will have two pool pumps too. Bit confused. Thanks.
I gather from the battery and inverter links, that this is a 48v system. It wasn't specifically highlighted in the video. I'm looking at an off grid shop system, and this would be the types of loads I have to consider.
David, based on my conversations with the folks at SS, it should be fine. I am setting up an off grid shop also only, running 120 v at this time with 4 eg4 batteries and 1 eg4 6500 watt inverter. Until I can save up for the panels I will be recharging my battery’s with the 48 volt charger. For me this is more of a hands on self teaching thing so I can set up a whole house system later. Also as I wire my shop I am running some 220 outlets but they will not be connected to the load center for a while as getting a 2d inverter is a low priority for me right now.
@@richardsylvester9406 Thank you. I'll probably only be hooking up 2 rack mount EG4 batteries to begin with, with an 6500EX inverter. If I ever decide to run 220, it would be run from the generator, unless it becomes routine. In which case I think I would add more batteries and a dedicated 220 volt inverter, as opposed to a parallel additional 120 volt 180° out of phase. I just don't think my 120 volt usage would justify the load balancing between inverters. Time could very well change my mind.
I have a solark 15k, I turn the each battery on while the main breaker to the inverter is off. This keeps from charging or discharging a single battery at a greater than it can handle. Reverse order when going off.
I have the same question. I emailed SS and posted on diysolarforum asking about the on/off procedure and I got no reply. I have the new EG4-LL and it has a circuit breaker and a separate BMS/display switch, so I close its circuit breaker first to establish the electrical connection to the inverter and then close the BMS switch, in order to activate its built-in current limiting resistor. The LifePower switch functions as a circuit breaker and BMS switch in one unit.
Thank you for this video!! Just installed (last weekend) Two Eg4 6500ex and two Eg4 Lifepower batteries (split phase) Do you have an answer to the 61 error everyone is experiencing with this set up? Have the right cables pinned correctly and installed correct direction. Tried two different cables. Bought all from signature solar. Inverter is not communicating with batteries as far as I can tell. I get the 61 error within minutes regardless of state of charge. Signature solar has no answers
@@SignatureSolar Ok thanks - i HOPE IT IS. Bought this system because they were suppose to communicate. Per the forums its been going on for weeks with no fix.
I’m a rack guy :) I like this set up with the inverters and battery’s all in one rack and the additional items on the out side of the rack. I’d be interested in this rack as well.
According to the installation instructions this setup has nowhere near recommended clearances the inverters require. 19" top and bottom 8" on sides. Close the door and they just might overheat...I have mine in center of of grid house, setting up a fan system to put the warmed air inside in winter and directed outside in summer..under load the inverters reach Temps in the 90's
Can you tell me what happens if you have one inverter turned on and running on the batteries and then turn on the other breaker for the other inverter? Will the other inverter handle the in-rush current to the first inverter or will it trip the breaker?
What size DC breaker are you using for that stack of 5 batteries? Spec sheet says 30A recommended discharge per battery, but system design wise, what would you do for the stack of 5?
@@SignatureSolar Hi! Went to the web site and there are several. Could you state which one in particular you recommend. thanks. (currently I go directly from the batteries to the inverter).
Can I get this approve in Cali. ? I check the list but EG4 that maybe approved but confuse. DO you have any buyer in Cali using for grid-tie? What other battery do you recommend? thanks
Interesting I have the 6000k 120/240 all in one eg4 and one of those batteries and I have no problems with running loads eventually getting six batteries should be enough power for what I need I'm off grid with just one.
I’m confused about the minimum battery requirement for a specific load. Can I run a 2000W load with two LifePower batteries (48V 100Ah) and an EG4 3000W inverter?
You can run a 2000W load from a singular EG4 3k and 2 batteries quite easily, given that the load is a 120V load. The EG4 3k is a 120V inverter when its not in parallel.
What about frame ware. Dose it have to be done before I can connect everything up. And where would I get a connection cable that will plug into my tablet? I don't have a computer or laptop I can get why FYI signal where I have the batters set up.
can you have power coming from solar and the grid at the same time? if so; then if the load out isn't too high can you charge the battery while running a load?
Richard, I don't have a breaker between the batteries and the inverter, only a class T fuse. I hear the clicking noise when I power on the batteries, but when I power on the inverter the batteries trip alarm.
This AM I was trying to get this started at sunrise. After many many frustrating configurations and attempts I got it to power on. In my mind it powered on because the solar array was waking up and kept the inverter in a cycle attempt to power on. While it was trying to power on, I switched the batteries on and wallah! The batteries stayed on. Unfortunately, I had to hot connect my DC to DC converter because I was not going to power down to make the connection. 1 spark later and my DC to DC system is on. This is not how it should be. The BMS on these batteries needs some tuning. This reminds me of having to push start a 1968 VW beetle as a kid. Yeah, you can get it started, but it didn't fix the problem. Unfortunately, if this happens again we will need to return the batteries and try a different alternative.
@@SignatureSolar & Richard, Thank you, I am sure it's just as much a challenge on your side. Just FYI, my inverter is a Magnum MS4024M (4k/24v). Your team has a video doing a bare bones compatibility test on this inverter. The SCC is a Victron 150v/70a. The magnum inverter does have a BMK (battery monitoring kit) connected to a 500A shunt on the neg side and power to the bussbar. The BMK was not attached in the compatibility test. The system has a 350A Class T fuse between the positive battery bussbar and the inverter. There is also a Victron Orion 24vDC to 12vDC 70A converter to power 12v loads. The only breakers/switches are from the 2400W PV array to the SCC and a 80A breaker between the batteries and the SCC. *This system only has a chasis ground as it is on a RV, so no ground stake. **There is a 50A backup generator with a bonded neutral attached to the system via the AC input on the inverter. ***There is a 50Amp Progressive Industries surge protector between the generator (shore power) and the Magnum inverter. I thought the last pieces of info on grounds and surge protectors might be important since this seems to be a sensitive short circuit issue. FYI, I previously had 24V lithium batteries installed with no system issues - so its not the system. The EG4 LIFEPOWER4 batteries were supposed to be simple drop in replacements with a slight gain in AH. The batteries are 3 days old, received on Monday, 20 June.
I've sent a question to technical support and thought I might try here as well. Can you (or anyone) please tell us the make and model of the server rack used in this video? This appears to be a great modular configuration.
I just bought two of these. The manual says something confusing though. pg 4 has a statement that says: "Do NOT parallel batteries by using jumper wires on the terminals. This will cause a high amperage in the final jumpers and potentially excessive amperage on the battery terminals." These are intended to be connected in parallel just like what we see in this video to maintain the 48v and double the amp hours. I am assuming the point of the warning is not to use some sort of cable like jumper cables for a car??? this is a confusing warning. Can anyone comment on this?
I found it hard to believe someone would do that. My company has to make documents idiot proof too. Not being an electrician, I thought perhaps there was a broader scope for the teem. Thanks@@SignatureSolar
i've got two other brand batteries and want to buy 2 eg4 batteries before using my eg4 6500ex. if i put all 4 batteries in parallel and start up the eg4 batteries, start the inverter, then turn on the other brand batteries which don't have precharge resistors, the two eg4 batteries should limit the voltage spike from the 2 off brand batteries.
@@SignatureSolar I’m so sorry. I’m not sure what I was thinking when I commented. I watched so many videos that night on lithium batteries. I watched it again and yes,,, there it was. I must have gotten up or was distracted when you showed that. I am very interested in a 24 volt rack battery like those. 😊
My Lifepower4 battery only shows a 50% SOC! I went thru all the test and charging with the 48v charger, that the tech said to do. I'm also getting getting a 19 triangle error. So it is not communicating with the battery. Nor would it charge unless I changed it to user defined.
Since when does sense mean since? See how easy it is to make a mistake? Try not being a jerk to people who make a simple error when it is easily understood what they actually mean.
@@onmyworkbench7000 I just watched the video again and he doesn’t say “open circuit breaker” anywhere. He says “an open electrical connection” then immediately explains what he means. Maybe focus less on the semantics of what is said and more on what is actually being said. Feel free to tag the time stamp of where he says “open circuit breaker”. I’ll wait.
I think I actually want six of those converters because it'll probably be more for me than one or two but I can't afford one or two or six but maybe in a few months I can or next year and then I might be able to have a converter for my solar panels
SO THESE EG LITH BATTERIES AUTOMATICALLY PRECHARGE CAPACITORS OF INVERTYER? IF THATS CORRECT HOW YOU RECOMMEND TO PRECHARGE INVERTER CAPACITOR, I HAVE 1 EX6000EX, WITH 4 GEL BATTERIES I HAVE ONLY AVAILABLE IN SERIES 12VOLT 200AH???
USER MANUAL NOVEMBER 2022 SAYS NOTHING ABOUT PRECHARGING INVERTER CAPACITORS PAGES 5 AND 6????? NOT REQUIRED TO PRECHARGE ???? FOR US POOR DIY GUYS TRYING TO GROW....
I don't understand the science why a single battery would work to turn on that compressor. Batteries connected in parallel increases the amount of time or amp hour capacity whilst voltage remains the same. Shouldn't the compressor at least run but only for a shorter amount of time compared to a larger bank. Someone once explained batteries likened to a reservoir of water tank: When we connect more batteries we are increasing the size of the water tank, with less batteries we have a smaller tank ? I would the grateful to be humbled by someone that can correct my understanding, what am i missing here ??
Compressors, or any electric motor require a large inrush current to start the electric motor-it’s known as overcoming the Locked(locking) rotor amps [LRA]. A 20a motor may require 100-120+ Amps to start it but only 20 to run. So while one battery may be able to supply the running current needs for the electric motor, it cannot supply the 0.1 second of the required LRA so it can’t start the motor, whereas 2 or 3 (or more) batteries can supply the necessary LRA and the running current.
when we get to the point where batteries can give us a week of uninterrupted power for 3500 to 5000 dollars, batteries for home use will be great. 280KW battery backup, man the would be great. you have got to figure the sun will shine some time in 7 days.
Wait until you see their shipping charges!!!! Imagine if you have to return it? Sorta like a bargain on ebay until you see the shipping costs.....Look twice!
I really like your guys products but your videos are really need to be recorded and zoomed in on what you are doing during the process of your doing your always assumed way far back
I think it would be helpful for all your customers to show the set up procedure for each of the configurations that you sell, such as the 3000k EG4 inverter or the Growatt, with the lifepower eg4 batteries and so forth. Also, maybe hire somebody with video production experience to help direct more professional looking videos that would show close-ups and and more thorough step by step instructions. For the amount of products Sig Solar is selling, to predominantly the DIY crowd, you need to step up the video production, because I am sure your tech help desk is fielding the same questions over and over.
I think this is really valuable input Longbow is providing. My read on Sig Solar (and I am almost for sure going to purchase my batteries, rack, and inverters from them) is they are REALLY good people with really good products primarily for DIY and then also for pros. However, they are Nurds (good Nurds) and they know their stuff and they know solar in general really fricken well. But most of us are not Will P. or some other person making our living doing solar UA-cam stuff. We are trying to do our home (on or off grid), off grid cabin, work shop, ......... and we are most likely trying to do it right and do it once. So, ....... we don't have the total knowledge and skill set and need as Longbows is suggesting. OR, what happens is what is happening at SS, the Tech/Customer Service is overloaded and people are getting frustrated (the only reason I haven't put in my order). Much of that frustration and a significant part of that overload could be eliminated with really clear Gerber-spoon-fed tech videos like these. Sure, the more knowledgeable will complain and write long self-serving responses, but in the end, everyone gets what they want. Take Longbow's input.
Great video, please add more content like this with the dual 6500EXs in split phase mode. Demonstrate initial setup of each inverter and go through the different modes. Add cabling diagrams and setup options for running with GRID input please!
Will do!
@@SignatureSolar Yes please do. After seeing this video, I ordered the same setup. Now I have to find a tall server rack. Please show videos of how you added the bus bars into the rack for the battery hookup.
@@NC-oc3ld We have the bus bars added at the factory as part of the sidewalls.
I've ordered (and received) two of the batteries and am waiting on the two inverters (backordered) to arrive. I'd look forward to seeing the mentioned video on connecting all of the components as well. I also ordred a dozen of the 445 Watt Bifacial panels and am wondering about how best to string those with the two inverters. I'll be adding a lot more in the future so having an idea about the initial string setup would be greatly appreciated.
YES!!!PLEASE!!!
Why in the world would you not have the resistor charging procedure in the Battery Manuel? I bought 3 of the lifepower 4 batteries and knew it had a resistor in the battery to charge the invertor on startup. Read the manuel on the eg4 3k inverter and the Lifepower 4 battery and it's not mentioned anywhere. Started it up and just like your video the batteries all shut off. Did this several times and now my first battery has a SOH of 99.90% Finally saw a video by Will Prowse that explained the procedure.
Answer to first question, if it is in fact not in the manual, because the manual is put together by humans, this is a new product that is very unique compared to normal things and humans make mistakes.
What's the title to the video will Prowse did on this problem or link it please thank you
@@chrisfree2000 , at about 2.50 he talks about the precharge resistor. ua-cam.com/video/hYkn9Umb-pA/v-deo.html
Same setup but with 4 batteries. Running washer/dryer, refrigerator, two mini splits, and a few other 120v small appliance. Works like a charm.
Love it!
Can I ask how you designate what's going to run off your batteries? I'm investigating using this setup but if I'm not running my whole house how do I run just a few appliances? Did you have to rewire those circuits out of your house pannel to this new setup? Thanks I can't find videos showing people connecting these to a house
@@dshudson I have a dedicated electrical panel in the laundry room powered by my inverter/batteries.
I run dedicated circuits out from there (centrally located). I'm not connecting into my grid panel at all.
Everything except the bedroom mini split can be plugged back into the grid.
For instance, I ran a dedicated circuit in EMT Conduit to the dryer. But the grid plug is still in place. Basically have two plugs, one is grid, other is solar.
As for designating what runs off the solar setup, to be honest, I winging it. 😄
I initially bought the system to power the laundry room and add a mini split to my bedroom. But it works so well, I've been adding other things to it, like another small mini split and refrigerator.
Dryer only runs in the day when I'm making power, fridge doesn't take much juice, and the mini splits are so darn efficient that I usually have 50% battery left in the AM.
Fortunately, it only drops into the 30's at night, so I only run the mini splits in the AM to get the chill out.
Live in AZ, so I typically get enough sun to make all the power I want.
@@genxgamerdad141 thanks a ton I appreciate it.. Wish me luck. Haha
@@genxgamerdad141 actually one more question. How many pannels do you have and what voltage are they. And how long does it take to charge your batteries thanks
Great video just one point at about 1:31 you say "open" and then say this means "on". Perhaps a simple misspeak but open is off and closed is on. Thank you, martin
Yes. Open means off in electrical speak.
Yeah, that was confusing.
Thank you for this video. Just like "Oily Care" I'd like to see the complete set up for split phase and demo how you would hook up a critical load center, how you would combine input and out put in the same panel (or is this possible?), especially the ground neutral configuration, or do we need a separate transfer switch (please show). Also follow through with total set up of same with the inverters. Also, some close ups during the video would be extremely helpful. Thanks so much for your help (Chris Haymond)
I'm confused...regarding start-up, in electrical circuit terminology isn't "open" and "on" opposite meanings?
Richard, excellent video. Thanks for showing this in detail. (Please try to wear a mic for better sound quality)
Reset button??? When would you use it? What is it for??
is there a play by play video of them setting up this sweet rack system? it's so compact with everything attached
I would love to know what rak you used here! Looks like a 10 stack based on the height of the service rak. Seems more logical for the inverters facing outward. Also seems very shippable assembled if on wheels.
Three batteries and two 6500 ex's here. Almost have all hardware ready to go, this was a helpful video prior to reading the manual, thanks for sharing!
Anytime!
Great video,great timing. I am currently working on this same setup,initially with four batteries. Thanks!
Good luck!
Good luck indeed. Let me know if you can get your inverters to communicate with the batteries. The word out is they don't. Get error 61 within minutes of start up for most as i see on the forums.
Thank you, cleared up a couple of things for me.
Great video. Do you have a video of you building the system that you used to demonstrate the startup? I would like to build something similar, maybe with four batteries instead of six.
Good explanation. Thank you Richard.
I like the tall server rack with inverters on top. Do you sell these tall racks?
This was a custom order so EG4 could build this prototype of a full powerwall idea they are playing with.
@@SignatureSolar I am not sure if you answered my question. 😕😕😕
How much for the whole setup ?
A closed breaker means its in the ON position
An open breaker means its in the OFF position
Exactly
When will they be back in stock?
Air compressors are notoriously difficult to start up with solar systems. That high inrush current and inductive load trip most systems. I can't think of a better test. Thank you for showing the "minimum" system that can run heavy inductive loads.
Totally agree! Thanks for the comment.
We have a 24V, off-grid solar setup (1,200 Watts PV, FM80 controller and VFX3524 inverter charger) with two 24V 200AH LifePOwer4 batteries and are unable to startup a handheld "Skillsaw" circular saw without crashing the batteries! We are also unable to fire up a 10" Craftsman radial arm saw. I was impressed to see that you could do could fire up the air compressor! Why can't we even fire up a little Skillsaw?
@@zachreyhelmberger894 Try adding a soft start to the saw. ua-cam.com/video/BCzwF92esNI/v-deo.html
Been running air compressor on this same setup(4batteries).. works great.
Getting a new house, foundation was just poured; I would like to get a complete grid tie system when it's ready.
Sounds great, let us know and we will hook you up!
How did you ground the inverter and the batteries with having the inverters mounted to the same cabinet? I have a lifepower4 battery and a 3k EG4 inverter and they are mounted on the same metal frame,I have live voltage everywhere. Did you put spacers in between the inverter and the cabinet so the inverter frame is not conductive to the server rack? How does this not create a ground loop?
I recently installed my Growatt 12KW inverter and 4- EG4-LL batteries in the rack system using the top 4 rack spaces. I currently have 8 of your Bluesun BSM460M-72HBD panels configured in 4S-2P on one MPPT via a watts24/7 charge controller. My other 10 panels are on back order to wire up the second MPPT. I am considering going 3S-3P for each MPPT when the remaining panels arrive. I used the 25mm2 gauge wire you provided for the 4 EG-LL's pulling the positive and the negative from the top of the rack system busbars. I ran this for a couple weeks with two 110V output circuits to test the system and noticed the batteries drained down evenly. I just received and installed the remaining two EG4-LL's in the bottom two spaces to complete the rack and this time reversed the negative bus bar per Will's comments so that the main negative pulled from the bottom of the bus bar. I also replaced the 25mm2 battery feed cables with equal length 4/0 cables. I then went off grid for the past 6 days, back feeding my house panel on a 60 amp breaker. I was surprised to see that the two newer EG4-LL's installed at the bottom of the rack were draining down much faster. This morning reading show from top to bottom in the rack with all 6 showing 52.2 volt but the amp draw as follows;
#1 0.9A 44%
#2 0.9A 44%
#3 0.9A 43%
#4 0.9A 44%
#5 3.0A 37%
#6 2.9A 38%
The difference in the SOC has been between 10-20% between the top 4 and the bottom 2 batteries to the point that I shut off the lower two batteries last night. I am considering changing the negative bus bar back to the original position and would appreciate your input.
You don't need a separate solar charge controller, because these inverters have one built in.
Did you ever change the negative bus bar back to the original position, and if so what was the experience?
@@leonmcooper8640
I ended up keeping the positive top left and the negative bottom right on the bus bars. I was told by SS that it takes time for the newer batteries to settle in so I kept it that way. Here are my SOC reads today from top to bottom. 54,46,49,53,48,51.
Did they give a timeline? It will be interesting to see what they ultimately "settle" to.
Hey Guys, Thanks for the video. When demonstrating loads, I think it would be helpful to have household appliances like microwave, induction hob, electric oven, vacuum cleaner, etc. Maybe with video of the Wattmeter on the Display.... you know, to give folks an idea... I'm running the 5000es w/ 2 eg4s, and midpoint transformer...
It would help very much if all speakers on your Signature Solar UA-cams would wear a mic to speak into. I uses most of these videos but have to turn the sound away up. Please get mics for all your speakers.
can you do a walkthrough of the side of that set up. the braker panel the PV disconnect and load output
Signature Solar great video. I agree with a few others, it would be great to see a video where this is used with solar. One question though, in researching other sites that reviewed this product, they talked about this unit uses a lot of standby power. Any way to offset that wasted battery power other than adding another battery and more solar panels?
The a lot is still very little
Thanks for the video. What's the sequence for the EG4 LL batteries? It has a BMS power button and a breaker where the Lifepower4's seems to only have a breaker for turning it on. For the EG4 LL, do you turn the breaker on then push the BMS button so the inverter caps get charged slowly? The DC breaker inbetween the batteries and inverter are closed beforehand in both cases...
The order does not matter on the battery itself as long as any in-line breakers on the positive line and battery input breaker on the inverter is on before any battery breakers
How about setting up 4 6500 units? Haven't seen a video out there yet. I will b calling.
I can't get my EG4 6000 to start up up consistently, please do a full video and include ac input, solar and show the screen throughout the process
DID YOU EVER GET THIS REQUEST finding shortage of videos on the EG4 6000ex
Inverter/battery rack! That’s great! Do you have these racks available for sale? Probably 6 feet?
My eg4 batteries aren't charging any higher than 54v right now. I have heard other people are having same problem. I also have an EG4 6500ex invertor.
Can someone please explain to me what just happened in this video at 1:15? We have an Outback VFX-3524 Inverter charger and we cannot get it to fire up even with TWO LifePower4 24V, 200AH batteries connected to it!! We HAVE to turn on the FM80 charge controller and THEN turn on the PV panels and WAIT for the charge controller to start producing power on a sunny day and ONLY THEN we can flip on the VFX3524 without crashing the batteries. What are we doing wrong? Are we supposed to flip up the paddle to the inverter first and THEN turn on the batteries?? It looks like he is connecting the inverter to the batteries first, then turning on the battery and THEN turn on the inverter?? The Outback VFX3524 does NOT have a power switch on it.
Great video, thanks!
Got a question concerning the 24 volt model battery that does not have a breaker..... If the On Off switch is in the Off position, will it take a charge from the solar array? Thanks in advance.
Seems foolproof..good video thanks
Glad you liked it
What is the startup procedure for the EG4-LL, which has a separate circuit breaker switch and a BMS switch 🤔? In your video the circuit breaker and BMS are mechanically connected to each other. Should I close the EG4-LL circuit breaker first and then turn on the BMS switch in order for the current limiting resistor to function?
I saw your question after I asked the same thing, but noticed nobody answered. Is what you suggested the way to do it ie, close the EG4-LL circuit breaker first and then turn on the BMS switch?
@jeffntexas8920 yes,
Hello, If I am buying two of these batteries can they be stacked on top of one another as I don't plan on buying a rack. Thanks
Lovely video. I intend to have 8 x 15kw battery rack to run main house off grid and 3 x 1 bedroomed apartments. How would I set up my eg4 18kw inverter and 3 x 5kw spf growatts with the 20% rule. I will have two pool pumps too. Bit confused. Thanks.
I gather from the battery and inverter links, that this is a 48v system. It wasn't specifically highlighted in the video. I'm looking at an off grid shop system, and this would be the types of loads I have to consider.
David, based on my conversations with the folks at SS, it should be fine. I am setting up an off grid shop also only, running 120 v at this time with 4 eg4 batteries and 1 eg4 6500 watt inverter. Until I can save up for the panels I will be recharging my battery’s with the 48 volt charger. For me this is more of a hands on self teaching thing so I can set up a whole house system later. Also as I wire my shop I am running some 220 outlets but they will not be connected to the load center for a while as getting a 2d inverter is a low priority for me right now.
@@richardsylvester9406
Thank you. I'll probably only be hooking up 2 rack mount EG4 batteries to begin with, with an 6500EX inverter. If I ever decide to run 220, it would be run from the generator, unless it becomes routine. In which case I think I would add more batteries and a dedicated 220 volt inverter, as opposed to a parallel additional 120 volt 180° out of phase. I just don't think my 120 volt usage would justify the load balancing between inverters. Time could very well change my mind.
I have a solark 15k, I turn the each battery on while the main breaker to the inverter is off. This keeps from charging or discharging a single battery at a greater than it can handle. Reverse order when going off.
I have 4 of your batteries to run 2 EG4 6000EX 48vdc IN PARALLEL how do you set the DIP SWITCHES on those 4 BATTERIES
You didn't even mention about solar input.
So my understanding is battery, inverter, solar to start and reverse to turn off. Correct?
I have the same question. I emailed SS and posted on diysolarforum asking about the on/off procedure and I got no reply. I have the new EG4-LL and it has a circuit breaker and a separate BMS/display switch, so I close its circuit breaker first to establish the electrical connection to the inverter and then close the BMS switch, in order to activate its built-in current limiting resistor. The LifePower switch functions as a circuit breaker and BMS switch in one unit.
We will do another video with solar - that largely depends on the inverter though!
I run two Growatt 5k I bought ftom you guys in parallel.
What happens if you have one battery half charged and one fully charged battery and you turn both batteries on?
Thank you for this video!! Just installed (last weekend) Two Eg4 6500ex and two Eg4 Lifepower batteries (split phase) Do you have an answer to the 61 error everyone is experiencing with this set up? Have the right cables pinned correctly and installed correct direction. Tried two different cables. Bought all from signature solar. Inverter is not communicating with batteries as far as I can tell. I get the 61 error within minutes regardless of state of charge. Signature solar has no answers
Richard said he is going to be making another video on this. A majority of the time it's a simple fix.
@@SignatureSolar Ok thanks - i HOPE IT IS. Bought this system because they were suppose to communicate. Per the forums its been going on for weeks with no fix.
What is the start up procedure you are using with two batteries and two inverters? I have the same as setup and an ready to start it up.
Old question but swapping the cable end for end worked for me. The cable has to remain connected to the host inverter. That is not made clear.
Please add the SPF-6000T Inverter with multiple LiFePOWER batteries. I can't find any videos anywhere on the net with this inverter.
I’m a rack guy :) I like this set up with the inverters and battery’s all in one rack and the additional items on the out side of the rack. I’d be interested in this rack as well.
According to the installation instructions this setup has nowhere near recommended clearances the inverters require. 19" top and bottom 8" on sides. Close the door and they just might overheat...I have mine in center of of grid house, setting up a fan system to put the warmed air inside in winter and directed outside in summer..under load the inverters reach Temps in the 90's
Can you tell me what happens if you have one inverter turned on and running on the batteries and then turn on the other breaker for the other inverter? Will the other inverter handle the in-rush current to the first inverter or will it trip the breaker?
I don't understand why the inverters don't share the server rack format the batteries have.
What size DC breaker are you using for that stack of 5 batteries? Spec sheet says 30A recommended discharge per battery, but system design wise, what would you do for the stack of 5?
Our breaker we recommend is a 200a breaker. We sell it directly on our site.
@@SignatureSolar Hi! Went to the web site and there are several. Could you state which one in particular you recommend. thanks. (currently I go directly from the batteries to the inverter).
@@howardkearney7989 signaturesolar.com/nader-dc-circuit-breaker-60v-200amp/
The breaker that you have on there is only rated for up to 1/0 wire. Do you have something that takes a heavier wire?
How do you start up using two inverters and two batteries? Open both breakers to the inverters at the same time, then both batteries?
My system just has big fuses, closing the breaker on a battery sends current to both inverters. They start right up.
Does the inverter turn off once the batteries are fully charged? Thanks.
Can I get this approve in Cali. ? I check the list but EG4 that maybe approved but confuse. DO you have any buyer in Cali using for grid-tie? What other battery do you recommend? thanks
If you aim to pass inspection in California, we recommend either the LLS or WallPower battery!
Interesting I have the 6000k 120/240 all in one eg4 and one of those batteries and I have no problems with running loads eventually getting six batteries should be enough power for what I need I'm off grid with just one.
I tried this but my battery is flashing the red fault light, it didn’t work, any ideas how to start the battery
I’m confused about the minimum battery requirement for a specific load. Can I run a 2000W load with two LifePower batteries (48V 100Ah) and an EG4 3000W inverter?
You can run a 2000W load from a singular EG4 3k and 2 batteries quite easily, given that the load is a 120V load. The EG4 3k is a 120V inverter when its not in parallel.
What about frame ware. Dose it have to be done before I can connect everything up. And where would I get a connection cable that will plug into my tablet? I don't have a computer or laptop I can get why FYI signal where I have the batters set up.
Hi signature solar, I would like to buy a 30kw off grid solar system using the EG-4 batteries. Could you recommend what should I buy?
That system is on sale now on their website. But only through 10/31
can you have power coming from solar and the grid at the same time? if so; then if the load out isn't too high can you charge the battery while running a load?
Yes to both!
Richard, I don't have a breaker between the batteries and the inverter, only a class T fuse. I hear the clicking noise when I power on the batteries, but when I power on the inverter the batteries trip alarm.
This AM I was trying to get this started at sunrise. After many many frustrating configurations and attempts I got it to power on. In my mind it powered on because the solar array was waking up and kept the inverter in a cycle attempt to power on. While it was trying to power on, I switched the batteries on and wallah! The batteries stayed on. Unfortunately, I had to hot connect my DC to DC converter because I was not going to power down to make the connection. 1 spark later and my DC to DC system is on.
This is not how it should be. The BMS on these batteries needs some tuning. This reminds me of having to push start a 1968 VW beetle as a kid. Yeah, you can get it started, but it didn't fix the problem.
Unfortunately, if this happens again we will need to return the batteries and try a different alternative.
We are looking into a few issues like this that are the 5%.
@@SignatureSolar & Richard,
Thank you, I am sure it's just as much a challenge on your side.
Just FYI, my inverter is a Magnum MS4024M (4k/24v). Your team has a video doing a bare bones compatibility test on this inverter. The SCC is a Victron 150v/70a.
The magnum inverter does have a BMK (battery monitoring kit) connected to a 500A shunt on the neg side and power to the bussbar. The BMK was not attached in the compatibility test.
The system has a 350A Class T fuse between the positive battery bussbar and the inverter. There is also a Victron Orion 24vDC to 12vDC 70A converter to power 12v loads.
The only breakers/switches are from the 2400W PV array to the SCC and a 80A breaker between the batteries and the SCC.
*This system only has a chasis ground as it is on a RV, so no ground stake.
**There is a 50A backup generator with a bonded neutral attached to the system via the AC input on the inverter.
***There is a 50Amp Progressive Industries surge protector between the generator (shore power) and the Magnum inverter.
I thought the last pieces of info on grounds and surge protectors might be important since this seems to be a sensitive short circuit issue.
FYI, I previously had 24V lithium batteries installed with no system issues - so its not the system. The EG4 LIFEPOWER4 batteries were supposed to be simple drop in replacements with a slight gain in AH. The batteries are 3 days old, received on Monday, 20 June.
I can send system pics if needed unfortunately, cant post them here on Utube.
I have 2ea LP4LL and 4ea Lifepower4 , what is the interconnect wiring between the 2 types? Port descriptions?
I've sent a question to technical support and thought I might try here as well. Can you (or anyone) please tell us the make and model of the server rack used in this video? This appears to be a great modular configuration.
Can I buy that server rack? I can’t find it on your website.
Same here. I believe they may be designing a system as we speak. The rack may be proprietary at this point?
Can the lifepower4 batteries communicate and tie in with the EG4-LL batteries?
Great job guys thanks for this video.
Our pleasure!
Will that exact system you built run a whole house ,off grid? If so what's the max daily kwh the house could require? Thank you
This is a concept we are working on - 30kw of batteries, 2 inverters for split phase, and all the accessories built in. Not done yet testing!
the assembly will work for the average 3/3 house with no furnace or tankless electric water heater
I love your rack! That's what I wanted to do, all in one cabinet, but with environment controls so I can put it in the garage.
Go for it!
@@SignatureSolar Go for it? How? Could you provide a link for where to buy that cabinet?
I thought you were planning to build one yourself. Are you guys interested in this larger rack?
@@SignatureSolar Very interested in "this larger rack."
Rack does seem cool
what is the instruction to connect to Sol-Ark or Victron?
what if your inverter doesnt have an on/off button?
I just bought two of these. The manual says something confusing though. pg 4 has a statement that says: "Do NOT parallel batteries by using jumper wires on the terminals. This will cause a high amperage in the final jumpers and potentially excessive amperage on the battery terminals." These are intended to be connected in parallel just like what we see in this video to maintain the 48v and double the amp hours. I am assuming the point of the warning is not to use some sort of cable like jumper cables for a car??? this is a confusing warning. Can anyone comment on this?
We do not recommend using car jumper cables to parallel your batteries.
I found it hard to believe someone would do that. My company has to make documents idiot proof too. Not being an electrician, I thought perhaps there was a broader scope for the teem. Thanks@@SignatureSolar
i've got two other brand batteries and want to buy 2 eg4 batteries before using my eg4 6500ex. if i put all 4 batteries in parallel and start up the eg4 batteries, start the inverter, then turn on
the other brand batteries which don't have precharge resistors, the two eg4 batteries should limit the voltage spike from the 2 off brand batteries.
I like this setup!
For how much will you you sell to me a ready to go system with 30 kWh capacity?
Inverters are 1300, those batteries are 1500.
NEAT setup!!! 100%
Where do I get one of them large all-in-one cabinets?
They are for R&D purposes only.
Where do we buy that rack?!
Keep tuned - it's still in development from EG4.
Looks like we'll have perform some research....
Does this solve the issues everyone is having starting the Outback Radian and Schneider XW PRO inverters with these batteries?
We've tested both successfully. Check out Richard From Signature Solar's channel - he shows both.
@@SignatureSolar Recent videos? I believe there are still problems and you are active on those DIY forums
I would have liked to have seen you turn the compressor on after adding the second battery to show that it would have done it
We did show it with 2 batteries and 4 batteries. It only failed with just 1.
@@SignatureSolar
Ok. I was just referring to this particular video. Never seen this channel. I’ll go look for it.
In this video we start the compressor with only 2 batteries.
@@SignatureSolar
I’m so sorry. I’m not sure what I was thinking when I commented. I watched so many videos that night on lithium batteries. I watched it again and yes,,, there it was. I must have gotten up or was distracted when you showed that. I am very interested in a 24 volt rack battery like those. 😊
My Lifepower4 battery only shows a 50% SOC! I went thru all the test and charging with the 48v charger, that the tech said to do.
I'm also getting getting a 19 triangle error. So it is not communicating with the battery. Nor would it charge unless I changed it to user defined.
Cool Cabinet
Sinse when does an OPEN CB mean it's ON?
Since when does sense mean since? See how easy it is to make a mistake? Try not being a jerk to people who make a simple error when it is easily understood what they actually mean.
@@Owlagami Thank you for the explanation, since no-one has answered my question it still needs to be answered "When does an OPEN CB mean Its ON?.
@@Owlagami Needs to be edited for accuracy though.
@@onmyworkbench7000 I just watched the video again and he doesn’t say “open circuit breaker” anywhere. He says “an open electrical connection” then immediately explains what he means. Maybe focus less on the semantics of what is said and more on what is actually being said. Feel free to tag the time stamp of where he says “open circuit breaker”. I’ll wait.
@@bruceeverett5372 except he never said open circuit breaker so, what exactly should they edit?
I think I actually want six of those converters because it'll probably be more for me than one or two but I can't afford one or two or six but maybe in a few months I can or next year and then I might be able to have a converter for my solar panels
SO THESE EG LITH BATTERIES AUTOMATICALLY PRECHARGE CAPACITORS OF INVERTYER? IF THATS CORRECT HOW YOU RECOMMEND TO PRECHARGE INVERTER CAPACITOR, I HAVE 1 EX6000EX, WITH 4 GEL BATTERIES I HAVE ONLY AVAILABLE IN SERIES 12VOLT 200AH???
USER MANUAL NOVEMBER 2022 SAYS NOTHING ABOUT PRECHARGING INVERTER CAPACITORS PAGES 5 AND 6????? NOT REQUIRED TO PRECHARGE ???? FOR US POOR DIY GUYS TRYING TO GROW....
Great. Now do one with solar. Daytime startup.
Will do!
And ac input, these yhings are brutal to startup
I don't understand the science why a single battery would work to turn on that compressor. Batteries connected in parallel increases the amount of time or amp hour capacity whilst voltage remains the same. Shouldn't the compressor at least run but only for a shorter amount of time compared to a larger bank. Someone once explained batteries likened to a reservoir of water tank: When we connect more batteries we are increasing the size of the water tank, with less batteries we have a smaller tank ? I would the grateful to be humbled by someone that can correct my understanding, what am i missing here ??
Compressors, or any electric motor require a large inrush current to start the electric motor-it’s known as overcoming the Locked(locking) rotor amps [LRA]. A 20a motor may require 100-120+ Amps to start it but only 20 to run. So while one battery may be able to supply the running current needs for the electric motor, it cannot supply the 0.1 second of the required LRA so it can’t start the motor, whereas 2 or 3 (or more) batteries can supply the necessary LRA and the running current.
Fun
when we get to the point where batteries can give us a week of uninterrupted power for 3500 to 5000 dollars, batteries for home use will be great. 280KW battery backup, man the would be great. you have got to figure the sun will shine some time in 7 days.
Good video. I feel sorry for you guys and all the flak you get from people that don't know what they're doing lol especially on that diy forum!
Wait until you see their shipping charges!!!! Imagine if you have to return it? Sorta like a bargain on ebay until you see the shipping costs.....Look twice!
it is done by pallet cost. I ordered 4 batteries and it cost the same a 1 battery shipping.
Presentation was OK, but that music was SO DISTRACTING. LOSE IT.
Thank you so much for your feedback! This is an older video and we have since made many improvements to our content :)
I really like your guys products but your videos are really need to be recorded and zoomed in on what you are doing during the process of your doing your always assumed way far back