Devon, Big fan here. I only buy PPV because of you and i will always support you. But Michael Todds elbow lock position is a terrible thing to watch. Your King's move is amazing. Michael Todd is just disgrace to the evolution of AW the way he uses his kings move. The bone lock was unbearably bad to watch against Genadi and i would like to never see it ever again. Hope ermes breaks it. Nothing personal to michael but genadi was winning that match without elbow lock BS.
I don’t know why you keep exposing yourselves to criticism on this topic. Love or hate the Kings move, Devon is right. There are all kinds of “limitations,” “mobility issues,” and “genetic defects,” that could be deemed advantages that you’d have to police in all kinds of positions, not just the kings. It’s a slippery slope. What’s the plan for that?
Or course theres a multitude of mobility issues that can arise. But it is beyond obvious rhat the one the most beneficial to armwrestling is being able to effectively have an elbow bonelock while still having a parallel humerus. This is the pinnacle of « mobility issues ». We need to find a ruling against a straight elbow that allows someone toneffectively rest his flexors while exhausting his opponent. When you straighten ones arm in armwrestling, you should win. One way would be adjustable pin pads for elite armwrestlers : you rest the arm on the table and ask the athlete to fully extend (which they will do because it’s at their advantage) and adjust the pin pas as to make it touch the ulna. That way the « mobility issues » of every arhlete is taken in consideration.
@1:00 well with the current humerus rule this isn’t even an issue….and when Devon used the term “arm bar” he’s referring to the MMA submission move. When someone is in an “arm bar” they’re in a lot of pain and forced to submit. So what he was saying that if someone is in an arm bar they can’t remain there. But regardless in KOT or EVW this “hanging under the table with straight arm” isn’t an issue.
I really don’t see the problem if they keep their shoulders above the table, the fact it’s beatable shows it’s not necessarily a cheat code but a tough move to counter. That however can be said about any move depending on who’s claiming what. This just seems a witch hunt for MMT esp, but also Devon……
The only problem above the table I see is the kings mover leveraging his forearm off the edge of the pad, using the table to absorb the finishing pressure. Ryan Bowen, MMT and Larratt do this all the time. It was key for Ryan to stop Schoolboy. It was key for MMT to defeat Larratt in 2018. Also, Devon gets his fanbase to witch hunt athletes several times per year. So who cares?
@ and what if it does leverage his forearm as you claim? It’s a natural advantage …..AW has things like risers for short people but tall people need to deal with the opposite problem, these are the kind of things that need talked about in terms of certain people gaining advantages …..as for the KM well, Again, as long as the shoulders above the table then it’s within the rules……
@ I'm not sure if you see what I'm trying to point at, and it is a little hard to articulate. Imagine bringing the edge of a 2x4 off of the side of a table, such that the board is set into a lever --- forcing a minimum angle greater than 0* relative to the table top. As you apply force to the levitated end of the 2x4, it receives resistance from this lever. The resistance comes from the table and is translated into the board. Back to armwrestling, we have the shoulder-dipping rule for the kings move which prevents exactly this for the upper arm, but not the forearm. The cushion of the pad alleviates sheer force from the forearm too. Consequently, this seems to turn the riser into a brick wall. So the opponent is forced to lose his wrist in order to finish the pin. Devon exploits this whenever his kings move begins to fails, and it drastically drains the opponent. It makes the opponent suddenly have to PR against the direct resistance of his own strength generated by the lever through the table. Does this make sense?
@ For the scenario I describe, it is on the boundary of an elbow foul. I propose that when the elbow foul occurs, it is considered a losing position loss.
Everyone has seen it beat already. He said it's beatable, he said he never lost to king's move, idk if that means he never had to deal with it or what. The problem with his argument is the way he describes it is already illegal. So I don't get his point
@miketurner1908 it doesn't make sense because the only way to straight arm with humerus above the table is by literally being on the pin pad. We all agree humerus below the table is cheating but if we have to make a specific rule for 1 or 2 guys who happens to have deformed arms slightly angled and can't straighten out, then Goodluck having refs having to make that judgement call mid match of when he is or isn't completely straight armed...
@@bsstyle123Look at michael todd’s face in his match against genadi. At some point you can see a complete relaxation during his bonelock position while genadi was exhausting himself. It can’t be more obvious, his biceps/brachialis were chilling. Also he doesnt have normal elbow range of motion so even with level humerus he’s not getting pinned. That’s where it gets tricky and that’s why we must find ways to create ruling against that.
@louisolivierfortin LOL you can't be serious if your proof is "just look at MMT's face". Why don't you look at MMT's face when he faced Jerry? Is that a face of a man who is relaxing like he's on a vacation in Cancun?
the question is, what should be the arm extension angle limit ?? 90°, 135°, 160°, 170° 175°, 178°, 179°, 180° ?? that's the real problem, as the arm extends more and more you gain more and more leverage. Both fighters are allowed to do the King's move, and both fighters can choose to fight in that position or not, if you are being "drained" by a king's mover, just get out of that position, go back to the center!
in poker 2 aces in hand (strongest possible cards u can have) win only 33% rounds - so yeah, they are beatable. But it doesn;t fin mean u should start with double aces every single round because of that. Do u have brain? Do you understand the odds/chances/advantages of something vs something, when compared objectively in terms of their strenghts?
Armwrestling, like MMA, includes various styles of fighting. In MMA, fighters can choose specific styles like jiu-jitsu or taekwondo, each with unique strategies. For example, jiu-jitsu focuses on fighting on the ground. The kingsmove in armwrestling is similar-it’s a unique technique, akin to fighting on the ground in jiu-jitsu. Saying the kingsmove should be illegal is like saying ground fighting in jiu-jitsu should be banned. All fighters leverage their strengths to gain an edge. For instance, if a boxer has a natural advantage, like unusually large knuckles, and uses it to deliver powerful knockouts, it wouldn’t be considered illegal. Similarly, armwrestlers should be allowed to use their natural or developed advantages, like the kingsmove. The Kingsmove is Beatable: The kingsmove is not an unbeatable technique. Michael Todd, known for his kingsmove, faced a long losing streak that lasted nearly a year. If the kingsmove or its bone lock were an unfair advantage, he wouldn’t have struggled for so long. Todd had to improve his fundamental strength to compete and win again, proving that the technique alone isn’t enough to guarantee victory.
It is hilarious that the same ppl who cried about the kings move when MMT used it are now defending it just because they are Devon fangirls. You can't get through to these females with reason, they only think based on emotion. They will always agree with whatever Devon says.
@@MelbourneMasterIIRC Justin said that the shoulder has to be above or parallel to the elbow pad, as soon as it goes under during a Kings move it is a foul.
@@MelbourneMaster Refs should make sure the bottom of the shoulder doesn't go below the elbow pad, that will more consistently make sure people aren't resting on their triceps to gain height.
@@utewbd These guys can still sit on their tricep with their shoulder parallel, infact they also love to shrug a bit to get away with more. The arm angle due to bonelock is the most important part
why are we catering so much to flop pressers. Only a flop presser should worry that much about a kings move but in my opinion the flop press is just as much of a desperation move as a kingsmove. It also relies on bone locks and frame, its equally ugly of a move.
We just saw how u can flashpin floppers as demonstrated by Levan and Ermes. Atleast in flop press ur arm angle stays tight compared to L shtsmove where ur arm is completely stretched open and Devon/MT are hanging desperately on their bonelock
@@astwasit’s pointless talking to Devononlyfans. It’s funny many of these people hated Michael Todd for beating Devon with that Kings years back. I hated it then as well and i hate it now.
Stop scapegoating the flop press to rescue this shit move. Shoulder-based rules have been enforced on the press for decades. The same must be done for the kings move.
Youre 100% right, pronation and hand control are way too beautyful to ruin it with an open angle, straight arm should be a fault for the beauty of this sport.
Janis, why were you not speaking of it so loudly while Michael Todd was not at such peak form? "Two guys or two girls hanging with two straight arms under the table is not such bright future for the sport" - sounds so liberal - i can barely making myself listen to it. Moreover, how many matches were taken like this?? Almost NONE! As a professional you have to be prepared for any move your opponent has to offer, not to cry over it - don't you agree? I do hope that this overreaction to kingsmove from certain armwrestlers will just be forgotten soon enough, otherwise, as Devon said, this will not be limited by kingsmove talk - you may just start to measure people arms and do not match a tall armwrestler with a short one - isn't it the same "cheating"?)))
@@ne-vri and that example of two guys hanging under the table is now illegal in most leagues and effectively banned in pro leagues so it’s not even an issue
It's just another technique. Devon and Genadi showcased how to beat it. You just need to be ready for it! For me a nastier technique is flop wrist defence - it can easily get you stuck such that you don't even know what to do next - you can't go sideways (unless you are much stronger), and you can't go back because either you'll get pressed, or there's no more space left. With the king's move you at least have an option to re-grip, control the center, climb, throw in the shoulder, etc...
Its not that he cant beat it, but his point is that if armwrestling comes to the 2 best in the world being kingsmovers it will be boring to watch and will escentially be about who has a better bone lock
The "just beat it" answer like that, and from Devon is absurd. The requirement for something to be considered cheating is not that it has to be unbeatable, its that you get an unfair advantage. This argument is like asking a boxer to ignore the opponent continually low punching him in the balls because the ref wont call it 🤷♂️
Did you really call a "flop wrist" defense as the most trickiest? 😂 You have total hand dominance and can't beat someone's bicep? Then you're just weak my brother. If someone can simply bicep curl your max strength then you need to get stronger. See how Irakli defended against John. Flop wrist defense. He was just too damn strong for even John. In that position, you have all the advantages.
Janis don't waste your time explaining anything to these obvious Devon fanboys, who'd bend over for him lol! You know 99% of the ones commenting shit couldn't even come close to your accomplishments!
How dare they question the knowledge of the Jedi? But all jokes aside, you and Devon both had good points, and having an open discussion about contraversial topics is essential! Thank you for taking on this responsibility, and please don't mind the idiot trolls :) 💪Cheers from Hungary!
Levan is the living proof that the kings move does not belong in armwrestling, he is the best in the world and not once have had to use that horrible move to win.
How do you feel about the person in winning position, hanging off the table? The person in losing position is using muscle and tendon, whereas the person in winning position is using gravity. That does not seem fair either. What about the person who is using the press, where they do not have full range of motion. (their hand cannot reach their shoulder, due to either larger biceps, or elbow flexion limitations) Are they not resting? (using their upper body mass) Is this fair to the person on the defensive side that is using their biceps to fight against the weight of the other?
I think he sees it an unfair advantage because of the lack of exertion by the kings mover compared to the level of exertion needed to beat it. Not because it's unbeatable.
@utewbd ,that's the misconception with the move. Janis thinks king's movers are taking a break down there while in reality they are in desperation mode/move and they are vulnerable. The guy facing the king's mover just needs to use Janis' method to get around it, apparently he's never lost to it, 0:37
"unfair advantage". Watch his other videos for context. This is similar to the case in BJJ competitions where the champion drags his ass because he can't do a takedown. Pulling on guard since beginning is not against rules but people didn't like it because of unfair advantage. Now it is given as a foul. It can be beaten but it is an unfair advantage and looks bad.
@@utewbd thats the point of the move, its a defensive move designed to tire out your opponent, what you should do when you cant pin a kings mover is just relax a little, maybe go back closer to center, and climb. If you cant pin them with the higher hand youre just not strong enough to beat them
Can people just Stop complaining and Learn how to beat kings move! It's not easy but possible! We use bonelock in arm wrestling all the time nothing new!
Janis, A lesson on being a high level human and leader… Stop throwing out how long you’ve done something. It doesn’t make your argument anymore compelling. “I’ve worked on patients for 20 years, I’ve arm wrestled for 30 years.” You know you are losing a debate when you start doing this. Stay humble, drop your ego, and level up as a man. Good luck
When thousands of fanboy sheeps, who never touched an armwrestling table, tries and talk how Janis is a nobody in armwrestling, he is not allowed to say this? And you somehow talk about being a man? Trying to sound hardcore and all that. 😆
@4:10 well don’t lose your wrist. Just as in any move. A lot happens between go and someone getting to the point of losing their wrist and being in a flop press.
@ when he was saying that someone in a flop press with their wrist bent back doesn’t have any options to get their wrist back. Probably just before 4:10
Yah it's quite odd that Janis even bring this point up. He said if you made a mistake of going into flop press, you will never be able to turn the pronation of the kings mover. Well, that's precisely because you made the mistake of flop pressing down the kings mover lane 😅 Janis, you can't serious use this scenario to describe the fairness or lack thereof of kings move
Janis- a good way to test your opinion is to become a master kingsmover then announce to the crowd you're going to show them how bad the kingsmove is for armwrestling by defending your opponent in Kingsmove for 30 mins then effortlessly pinning them.
The more popular something becomes the more shittier it gets. Full of masters of the sport everywhere, legends etc. Janis nailing it as usual. Hats off to this man.
@@lordmizan4976 how did he nail it? The “fully straight arm both guys hanging under the table” has already been made illegal in pro leagues so it’s not even a thing anymore. Under the table kingsmove is banned. What’s the complaint?
Good video. Don't understand the comments about being salty. I also had limited ROM in my elbow from arm wrestling and i could for example hang on one arm in end range (150 degrees) with 260 lbs BW, no way I could hang like that for a long time with full flexibility in my elbow. I am amazed that people argue IF having limited elbow extension ROM is a good or bad thing when discussing kings move ability.
The actual thing is Devon is not in this context, he is just debating about it ..Michel is the one who is doing this shitty straight arm move, Devon rarely does this because it may not be required for him to be in this move 95% of time because he is that strong , and whenever he tries to do that he gets a foul, so its michel you need to mention here, since then under the table/inclined humerus elbow is banned, he is started using the straight arm thing...and now he is sitting silent and the entire world is cheering for him.. Devon talks for him and gets all the hate ..
I think the key point here is that anyone using the floppers wrist will be at a major disadvantage against a locked in Kingsmover, who can just lay back, let the the other guy burn out, and then take back control. The Kingsmover is then resting 1cm away from the pad, while the flop presser is burning himself out. Unfair? I think so, yeah. Devon will say that: "Haha, he fell into the trap, he lost his wrist!". But, the flop presser is still using his muscles and energy to fight, the Kingsmover is not. Is that good armwrestling?
Justin bishop put it perfectly when he explained in his video, i dont think the problem is the straight arm i think the problem is the shoulder dipping with a straight bar to gain height in the hand, it becomes impossible to pin.
The debate was helpful to see both sides and think through things more, thanks for sharing your honest thoughts Janis. Thinking through it more I'm leaning on the side of pro-kings move, I appreciate the debate though ❤
If kings move relies on a bone lock then flop wrist does as well, as getting your shoulder in "testing your frame" in defending against a stronger opponent does. All 3 scenarios present a case where the defender has "lost" either their bicep, wrist, or center table. Should that defender lose? Logic is fun. I like where this is going. A "pure" sport 🫳😂 But Janis won't respond to this.
Shouldder above the taable and there isn't a problem in my opinion. It gets ugly and should be banned in positions that Devon and Michael Todd get into when they fall into the kingsmove...
For me as a non arm wrestler just a fan, isn’t it a combat sport. As long as weight is made it’s go time. One guy can have a much longer reach and makes it more difficult to get close enough to hit and get a win but it’s just something that needs to be figured out. Same with kings. Just work it out.
He's so wrong actually, just crying because he personally doesn't like the move.I hate flop press but don't bang on about it, someone having there wrist bent right back to the point it is locked then the shoulder behind the arm in a way it can't be moved due to the bone.
At the end of the day, it is opinion on if it is fair or not. I respect your opinion and experience as an armwrestler and physical therapist. The big problem is how to make sure any rule changes wouldn't affect the rest of the sport, and I'd rather we have things as they are than risk taking away too much flexibility just to avoid a very very rare few kings movers winning.
I think everyone understands your argument. Most people don't see it as a problem. You're saying "if the opponent does X, he won't be able to do Y". That's the point of any tactic. When Jerry faced Levan he got no flop press because Levan closed down that path. This is the same thing - find the route. Don't lose your wrist and hand. Learn about the move so you can find a way to counter it.
I agree 100% even though I am considered a "king's mover" by some. Adding in the shoulder rotation is only possible as the arm becomes straight and doing it even once can wreck the opponents wrist for the rest of the match. A subtle but good example was in a recent match between Artem and Max where, when Max was close to pinning, Artem quickly straightened out his arm to increase his pronation(by adding shoulder rotation) to avoid the pin. Max was smart and strong enough to eventually overcome it but had his wrist been truly cracked it likely wouldn't have recovered for the rest of the match and Artem would have then had the advantage for the remaining rounds. In some ways it makes me think that making a rule against using shoulder rotation might a better way to regulate it? The match in my example is still in a PPV but I can post it once the match goes to youtube.
@@Chris_Ireland Sure. That's normal pronation. Once you straighten your arm you rotate your arm roughly 90-degrees further. Try it. It makes a big difference.
Exactly. In that movement you don't need muscles at all. Just hope that your bones don't break and rotate your whole arm. The force needed to break a bone is much more than what someone can wrist curl.
@@Dmgolfer22 still an issue if you cracked their wrist that way while getting pinned in a super match where there are still rounds to go before the match is completed. If the winner's wrist got cracked just to get the pin in the first round they might now lose all the following rounds because of it. And in a tournament setting that puller might have the rest of his/her day ruined as well.
It‘s that time of the year again, when the discussion for kings move starts. It is just a move, get over it and learn to beat it. I also don‘t like it but it exists and since the shoulder is above the table is legal. These guys cannot armwrestle out of the box, so rigid my god!
This is GOLD. PURE SIGN OF WEAKNESS NO SKILL.. #1 Reason Arm wrestling is a joke... Nailed it bro haters hate since you expose them... Saddest move ever and most abused .
I agree double kings could be boring, It COULD be. But it could be the same as in wrestling where if both guys are sitting there doing nothing the match can be reset, as long as one guy is trying to advance towards a pin I see the same kind of dynamics as a slow hook match. But besides that I think that our current rules are perfect because kings move can still operate within so there are no significant disadvantages nor advantages.
It seems to be okay when Cyplenkov used to/does do it. You do what it takes to win, in any (pro) sport. Offence gets all the glory, but Defence wins you the game, even in armwrestling.
Janis, your opinion is unpopular, you lost the debate, 95% of the comments were criticism towards YOU and YOUR points in the comment section, it's not trolls understand that you are wrong and your obsession with becoming an arm wrestling police officer is ridiculous, stop policing this great sport leave it alone, no one appreciates your tyrannical intents, like it or not the most watched arm wrestling matches on youtube have the kingsmove, your paranoia is an enemy of armwrestling
If shoulder is above the table in a kings move, game is on… but kings mover would tend to go below table level and is illegal. Michael todd style. Above table is more like open toproll. Anyway rule 1 in internet is dont feed the trolls 😂
Is fighting out of the kings move not technically an advantage to the opponent? A person may avoid losing with the kings move, but they can't pin out of it?... Like a person has clearly lost back pressure and the center of the table. To me its seems like its a desperation last move to avoid losing... But that would mean a person stuck in a kings move would still have to fight a uphill battle to gain an advantage back? So what's the problem here. It just means arm wrestlers need to get more technically efficient, and has that not been the whole improvement in the sport over the past 30 years? Smarter fighters?
The problem is they meaning two can sit in that move for days not breaking a sweat then when the opponent wears out the come from the bone lock on to victory
Janis is a living legend. His point makes perfect sense. It's a rules issue mainly. I think the kings move is legit, but I don't think you should be able to go straight arm....
We all love the Jedi but no rules need to be changed my friend. You're one of my favorite arm wrestlers. The only argument I have is you say that people use the Kings move because they lost all their back pressure and their other fundamentals yet you say they bring a gun to a knife fight so which is it?
Here's a little video I've compiled about Kings move aesthetics: watch?v=7fQKDihrWhA But my biggest concern with the Kings Move is safety and health. Especially when amateurs/newbies and kids start using it, following the example of their favorite arm wrestlers.
Absolute legend! Thank you Janis for speaking FACTS and not caving in to Devon’s popularity and mindless trolls. You nailed your argument. We all saw Devon rotating with his arm inward when Levan fully outstretched his arm. It is just silly to not foul someone at that point.
@@r.a.fiallos234 the declined humerus is what made the extended ‘outstretched’ arm possible. If not for the declined humerus, he would have been pinned And elbow pivoting to the side is not a foul. The elbow pivots to the side when pinning as well. In WAF rules You can even have the the elbow not in contact with the elbow pad as long as it’s above the perimeter of the pad while the back of your upper arm is in contact with the pad. So this “elbow to the side” is not a foul.
@ thanks for clarifying. It’s the fully outstretched arm and playing the angles under the table to get away from the pin pad that gets me the most. I just hope it never gets made legal again.
Just be better, no need any changes. Just be better at more areas, not just one and problem solved. You can't really be at the world level top 10 and have just 1 lane, so then it's your problem if you can't win.
So it’s fair a guy is straight arm using it as a lever. The much stronger man gets tired out by trying to break the opponent’s arm. I pray Engin gets rid of this move.
@@Justinsox39you are wrong if that's the only way, somehow Genadi won 1st time against MT, Devon won, John won again MK even when shoulder was allowed under the table. Even Janis said he won against a lot kings movers. Just you can't rush with kings mover and work smart and have strong hand. Same goes to other styles, in some styles you don't need strong hand, but strong arm, in some strong back pressure. If therr would be no way to beat it I would agree with you, but there is.
@ well obviously it’s beatable. Levan would beat me if i used two hands does that make it fair? The kings is a joke. How is Genadi going to pin Todd that last match. He was up on the table pushing as far as possible. Todd just sitting there very comfortable while Genadi gasses. It’s an absolute joke. There is zero honor winning like that. I don’t count those as wins at all
@@Justinsox39 I don't get your point. If MMT was using a defensive side pressure instead and let's say Genadi couldn't drive through the defensive side pressure, that means MMT won without honor? Or does your argument only applies to kings move? Sounds pretty discriminatory towards 1 particular move and not the other defensive move
This is a better approach for you, make sure that there’s no one to present the correct side of things and you can just pontificate however you’d like without being questioned😂
Thank you for acknowledging that you've never lost to the move and establishing this topic is a waste of energy man i respect you very much and learned lots from you and Ray can we please just move on and get back to why top roll is for smart people lol
you loose in the center than you go hit the wall just to escape the pain!!! maybe u need 30 years more but you will get there buddy -just keep worring about it and it will eventually sink in. weaker man looses everytime its a super match u have so much time yet you choose to waste it ,same goes in training for it for monhts and then fall face down and hit that wall. all the guys that crave the rules really want them to use them as the advantage-in mma-ufc we have so many rules yet if you ask top skilled guys who are totally dedicated to the sport they would get rid almost of all the rules-goes to show you who really needs the rules or maybe 60 years to get there!!
Whaa whaa whaa. Hey let's narrow the rules to the point where it loses all subtlety and nobody's doing it anymore. Only a narrow type of competitor and a specific style can be used. Wait, to make it really fair, let's make it a strongman type of competition where the opponents don't armwrestle at all. Rather they compete using armwrestling lifts and it's scored that way. Hey! boxers could use those punching machines, and then be judged on jumping rope and the speed bag. That way they wouldn't have to fight, and there'd be no trickery, or wins by being defensive!
It seems like it’s almost impossible to enforce. I hate to see a guy like MMT dragging across the table, but I seems like there’s no way to enforce it.
@mymodel6 this is all for MT. If you raise the pin pad then Ermes couldn't have done what he did for Levan, stop close to the pin pad, but not with kings move. Also Flop pressers would benefit massively like Jerry. Just to make it worse for MT we will make advantages for someone else
Why arent you complaining about press, that is a bonelock too
Press in an offensive move, absolutely not comparable to an elbow bonelock on the losing side.
@louisolivierfortin Not solely offensive, as we saw in the matches between MMT and Jerry Cadorette. Both guys just sat on their structure.
I hate Camil padlonski
@louisolivierfortin Wanna talk about Jerry and Kamil?
@louisolivierfortinthis does not make any sense, it's literally the same lol
Sounds like someone had some extra salt on their supper ❤️👑🚶♂️
Come hang out in ontario. Even our juniors know this move in better detail ;)
Krazy George vs Janis. Set it up😂
Greatest fraud of all time
Waiting for your first EvW/KoTT match where you don't start on the good side of the strap ;)
Devon, Big fan here. I only buy PPV because of you and i will always support you. But Michael Todds elbow lock position is a terrible thing to watch. Your King's move is amazing. Michael Todd is just disgrace to the evolution of AW the way he uses his kings move. The bone lock was unbearably bad to watch against Genadi and i would like to never see it ever again. Hope ermes breaks it. Nothing personal to michael but genadi was winning that match without elbow lock BS.
Greatest fraud of all time
I think u forgot that even fenis ceplycov also used kings move.
Yes but it’s Denis so nobody wants to say anything, he used it in his prime also and Devon didn’t
If The shoulder is above The table, There is no Problem..
Fenis ceplycov 😂
@@SoloCristoSalva3 Point of the elbow still on the pad, not side of the elbow joint..
It’s not as nearly as bad as Todd or Devon
I don’t know why you keep exposing yourselves to criticism on this topic. Love or hate the Kings move, Devon is right. There are all kinds of “limitations,” “mobility issues,” and “genetic defects,” that could be deemed advantages that you’d have to police in all kinds of positions, not just the kings. It’s a slippery slope. What’s the plan for that?
Or course theres a multitude of mobility issues that can arise. But it is beyond obvious rhat the one the most beneficial to armwrestling is being able to effectively have an elbow bonelock while still having a parallel humerus. This is the pinnacle of « mobility issues ». We need to find a ruling against a straight elbow that allows someone toneffectively rest his flexors while exhausting his opponent. When you straighten ones arm in armwrestling, you should win.
One way would be adjustable pin pads for elite armwrestlers : you rest the arm on the table and ask the athlete to fully extend (which they will do because it’s at their advantage) and adjust the pin pas as to make it touch the ulna. That way the « mobility issues » of every arhlete is taken in consideration.
You can increase the pin pad height.
Devon is totally wrong, u are blind if u think otherwise, he hides himself and his shit move behind people with limitations - that's pathetic
@1:00 well with the current humerus rule this isn’t even an issue….and when Devon used the term “arm bar” he’s referring to the MMA submission move. When someone is in an “arm bar” they’re in a lot of pain and forced to submit. So what he was saying that if someone is in an arm bar they can’t remain there. But regardless in KOT or EVW this “hanging under the table with straight arm” isn’t an issue.
seems like he thought Devon was saying "ya my arm is is just a metal bar in this position hehe"
I see press as a much stronger deadlock.
Why don't you talk about banning the press
I really don’t see the problem if they keep their shoulders above the table, the fact it’s beatable shows it’s not necessarily a cheat code but a tough move to counter. That however can be said about any move depending on who’s claiming what. This just seems a witch hunt for MMT esp, but also Devon……
The only problem above the table I see is the kings mover leveraging his forearm off the edge of the pad, using the table to absorb the finishing pressure. Ryan Bowen, MMT and Larratt do this all the time. It was key for Ryan to stop Schoolboy. It was key for MMT to defeat Larratt in 2018.
Also, Devon gets his fanbase to witch hunt athletes several times per year. So who cares?
@ and what if it does leverage his forearm as you claim? It’s a natural advantage …..AW has things like risers for short people but tall people need to deal with the opposite problem, these are the kind of things that need talked about in terms of certain people gaining advantages …..as for the KM well, Again, as long as the shoulders above the table then it’s within the rules……
@ I'm not sure if you see what I'm trying to point at, and it is a little hard to articulate.
Imagine bringing the edge of a 2x4 off of the side of a table, such that the board is set into a lever --- forcing a minimum angle greater than 0* relative to the table top. As you apply force to the levitated end of the 2x4, it receives resistance from this lever. The resistance comes from the table and is translated into the board.
Back to armwrestling, we have the shoulder-dipping rule for the kings move which prevents exactly this for the upper arm, but not the forearm. The cushion of the pad alleviates sheer force from the forearm too.
Consequently, this seems to turn the riser into a brick wall. So the opponent is forced to lose his wrist in order to finish the pin. Devon exploits this whenever his kings move begins to fails, and it drastically drains the opponent. It makes the opponent suddenly have to PR against the direct resistance of his own strength generated by the lever through the table.
Does this make sense?
@ For the scenario I describe, it is on the boundary of an elbow foul. I propose that when the elbow foul occurs, it is considered a losing position loss.
Very simple janis, if you want to prove it's wrong, go use this straight arm in your next match and show it's unbeatable.
Everyone has seen it beat already. He said it's beatable, he said he never lost to king's move, idk if that means he never had to deal with it or what. The problem with his argument is the way he describes it is already illegal. So I don't get his point
@miketurner1908 it doesn't make sense because the only way to straight arm with humerus above the table is by literally being on the pin pad. We all agree humerus below the table is cheating but if we have to make a specific rule for 1 or 2 guys who happens to have deformed arms slightly angled and can't straighten out, then Goodluck having refs having to make that judgement call mid match of when he is or isn't completely straight armed...
@@bsstyle123Look at michael todd’s face in his match against genadi. At some point you can see a complete relaxation during his bonelock position while genadi was exhausting himself. It can’t be more obvious, his biceps/brachialis were chilling. Also he doesnt have normal elbow range of motion so even with level humerus he’s not getting pinned. That’s where it gets tricky and that’s why we must find ways to create ruling against that.
@louisolivierfortin LOL you can't be serious if your proof is "just look at MMT's face". Why don't you look at MMT's face when he faced Jerry? Is that a face of a man who is relaxing like he's on a vacation in Cancun?
@@CossyMango todd was absolutely chilling at some point. Did you watch the same match I did?
i think shoulder below pad is enough , even im a armwrestling noob only watching videos. I agreed with Devon's arguments too
the question is, what should be the arm extension angle limit ?? 90°, 135°, 160°, 170° 175°, 178°, 179°, 180° ?? that's the real problem, as the arm extends more and more you gain more and more leverage. Both fighters are allowed to do the King's move, and both fighters can choose to fight in that position or not, if you are being "drained" by a king's mover, just get out of that position, go back to the center!
Under the table is already illegal and you can beat the move apparently. So what's the problem?
The problem is Europeans like to cry
The problem is Devon sheeps.
you have missed the point completely. Devon fan?
Why dont we ban the flop wrist defence as well? It uses more nastier bone lock then straight arm, and it has more chances of injury... just saying
in poker 2 aces in hand (strongest possible cards u can have) win only 33% rounds - so yeah, they are beatable.
But it doesn;t fin mean u should start with double aces every single round because of that.
Do u have brain? Do you understand the odds/chances/advantages of something vs something, when compared objectively in terms of their strenghts?
Armwrestling, like MMA, includes various styles of fighting. In MMA, fighters can choose specific styles like jiu-jitsu or taekwondo, each with unique strategies. For example, jiu-jitsu focuses on fighting on the ground. The kingsmove in armwrestling is similar-it’s a unique technique, akin to fighting on the ground in jiu-jitsu. Saying the kingsmove should be illegal is like saying ground fighting in jiu-jitsu should be banned.
All fighters leverage their strengths to gain an edge. For instance, if a boxer has a natural advantage, like unusually large knuckles, and uses it to deliver powerful knockouts, it wouldn’t be considered illegal. Similarly, armwrestlers should be allowed to use their natural or developed advantages, like the kingsmove.
The Kingsmove is Beatable:
The kingsmove is not an unbeatable technique. Michael Todd, known for his kingsmove, faced a long losing streak that lasted nearly a year. If the kingsmove or its bone lock were an unfair advantage, he wouldn’t have struggled for so long. Todd had to improve his fundamental strength to compete and win again, proving that the technique alone isn’t enough to guarantee victory.
The fact that Janis Amolins has to defend his arm wrestling understanding and knowledge is hilarious.
Come on man you gotta let it go, it’s getting ridiculous
It is hilarious that the same ppl who cried about the kings move when MMT used it are now defending it just because they are Devon fangirls.
You can't get through to these females with reason, they only think based on emotion. They will always agree with whatever Devon says.
Justin Bishop has a great suggestion on how to enforce the rules.
Just raise the pin pads...
In short what did he say?
@@MelbourneMasterIIRC Justin said that the shoulder has to be above or parallel to the elbow pad, as soon as it goes under during a Kings move it is a foul.
@@MelbourneMaster Refs should make sure the bottom of the shoulder doesn't go below the elbow pad, that will more consistently make sure people aren't resting on their triceps to gain height.
@@utewbd These guys can still sit on their tricep with their shoulder parallel, infact they also love to shrug a bit to get away with more.
The arm angle due to bonelock is the most important part
why are we catering so much to flop pressers. Only a flop presser should worry that much about a kings move but in my opinion the flop press is just as much of a desperation move as a kingsmove. It also relies on bone locks and frame, its equally ugly of a move.
no its not
@@osba70 excellent argument
We just saw how u can flashpin floppers as demonstrated by Levan and Ermes.
Atleast in flop press ur arm angle stays tight compared to L shtsmove where ur arm is completely stretched open and Devon/MT are hanging desperately on their bonelock
@@astwasit’s pointless talking to Devononlyfans. It’s funny many of these people hated Michael Todd for beating Devon with that Kings years back. I hated it then as well and i hate it now.
Stop scapegoating the flop press to rescue this shit move. Shoulder-based rules have been enforced on the press for decades. The same must be done for the kings move.
Wall, door, wall, door, wall, door, I'm out
Totally agree... its not arm-wrestling when the arm is straight out with the forearm locked on the pad. 👍👍
Youre 100% right, pronation and hand control are way too beautyful to ruin it with an open angle, straight arm should be a fault for the beauty of this sport.
I kind of agree, but how do you enforce such a rule? I think the difficulty comes in objective enforcement.
Janis, why were you not speaking of it so loudly while Michael Todd was not at such peak form?
"Two guys or two girls hanging with two straight arms under the table is not such bright future for the sport" - sounds so liberal - i can barely making myself listen to it. Moreover, how many matches were taken like this?? Almost NONE! As a professional you have to be prepared for any move your opponent has to offer, not to cry over it - don't you agree?
I do hope that this overreaction to kingsmove from certain armwrestlers will just be forgotten soon enough, otherwise, as Devon said, this will not be limited by kingsmove talk - you may just start to measure people arms and do not match a tall armwrestler with a short one - isn't it the same "cheating"?)))
Are you dumb?
Because hes a hypocrite
@@ne-vri and that example of two guys hanging under the table is now illegal in most leagues and effectively banned in pro leagues so it’s not even an issue
Idk what Janis talking about😂
It's just another technique. Devon and Genadi showcased how to beat it. You just need to be ready for it! For me a nastier technique is flop wrist defence - it can easily get you stuck such that you don't even know what to do next - you can't go sideways (unless you are much stronger), and you can't go back because either you'll get pressed, or there's no more space left. With the king's move you at least have an option to re-grip, control the center, climb, throw in the shoulder, etc...
Its not that he cant beat it, but his point is that if armwrestling comes to the 2 best in the world being kingsmovers it will be boring to watch and will escentially be about who has a better bone lock
The flop is easily beatable you are just either ignorant, too weak or both
The "just beat it" answer like that, and from Devon is absurd. The requirement for something to be considered cheating is not that it has to be unbeatable, its that you get an unfair advantage. This argument is like asking a boxer to ignore the opponent continually low punching him in the balls because the ref wont call it 🤷♂️
I saw Larratt vs Todd latest match. Two total kingsmovers and it was not boring at all. Just saying.
Did you really call a "flop wrist" defense as the most trickiest? 😂
You have total hand dominance and can't beat someone's bicep? Then you're just weak my brother. If someone can simply bicep curl your max strength then you need to get stronger.
See how Irakli defended against John. Flop wrist defense. He was just too damn strong for even John. In that position, you have all the advantages.
Devon fangirls raiding the comments again.
Yes i agree!! Also ban the hook, top roll, flop wrist press and just make the arm move to the side as we did in school when we were younger!! Right?
And no back pressure!!
And if your opponent has ever used kings move then they automatically start the match 1 point down.
Average 2 IQ Devon fangirl argument. U seem very emotional right now
@@astwas What's your argument then?
Janis don't waste your time explaining anything to these obvious Devon fanboys, who'd bend over for him lol! You know 99% of the ones commenting shit couldn't even come close to your accomplishments!
It amazes me how many people fail to realize that a straight arm without a declined humerus is a parallel pin.
How dare they question the knowledge of the Jedi? But all jokes aside, you and Devon both had good points, and having an open discussion about contraversial topics is essential! Thank you for taking on this responsibility, and please don't mind the idiot trolls :) 💪Cheers from Hungary!
Could you fuze a metal bar in your arm to hold your position and never be pinned? 😂
Is that MT's 'divine intervention' lol...
Levan is the living proof that the kings move does not belong in armwrestling, he is the best in the world and not once have had to use that horrible move to win.
He has no problems beating it tho
Fully extended arm is no more in a fight.
Yeah... I mean it's not armwrestling whatever it is lol
@@AudriusDir well with a fully straight arm and shoulder above the table, you will be pinned. So no issue.
How do you feel about the person in winning position, hanging off the table? The person in losing position is using muscle and tendon, whereas the person in winning position is using gravity. That does not seem fair either. What about the person who is using the press, where they do not have full range of motion. (their hand cannot reach their shoulder, due to either larger biceps, or elbow flexion limitations) Are they not resting? (using their upper body mass) Is this fair to the person on the defensive side that is using their biceps to fight against the weight of the other?
0:37 Then why the criticism against the king's move if it's that beatable?
I think he sees it an unfair advantage because of the lack of exertion by the kings mover compared to the level of exertion needed to beat it. Not because it's unbeatable.
Bcs it looks like shit
@utewbd ,that's the misconception with the move. Janis thinks king's movers are taking a break down there while in reality they are in desperation mode/move and they are vulnerable. The guy facing the king's mover just needs to use Janis' method to get around it, apparently he's never lost to it, 0:37
"unfair advantage". Watch his other videos for context.
This is similar to the case in BJJ competitions where the champion drags his ass because he can't do a takedown. Pulling on guard since beginning is not against rules but people didn't like it because of unfair advantage. Now it is given as a foul. It can be beaten but it is an unfair advantage and looks bad.
@@utewbd thats the point of the move, its a defensive move designed to tire out your opponent, what you should do when you cant pin a kings mover is just relax a little, maybe go back closer to center, and climb. If you cant pin them with the higher hand youre just not strong enough to beat them
Can people just Stop complaining and Learn how to beat kings move! It's not easy but possible! We use bonelock in arm wrestling all the time nothing new!
Janis,
A lesson on being a high level human and leader…
Stop throwing out how long you’ve done something. It doesn’t make your argument anymore compelling. “I’ve worked on patients for 20 years, I’ve arm wrestled for 30 years.” You know you are losing a debate when you start doing this. Stay humble, drop your ego, and level up as a man. Good luck
Most debates are not won with facts, but everything Janis said about kings moves is anatomically and scientifically
What a bunch of nonsense. You level up as a man lol
He just gave more facts about arm wrestling in just few minutes than Devon has ever given about king's move...
When thousands of fanboy sheeps, who never touched an armwrestling table, tries and talk how Janis is a nobody in armwrestling, he is not allowed to say this? And you somehow talk about being a man? Trying to sound hardcore and all that. 😆
@4:10 well don’t lose your wrist. Just as in any move. A lot happens between go and someone getting to the point of losing their wrist and being in a flop press.
I don't get what you are responding to at 4:10. Your response seems meaningless
@ when he was saying that someone in a flop press with their wrist bent back doesn’t have any options to get their wrist back. Probably just before 4:10
@ Yeah I don't understand your point, but that's okay.
Yah it's quite odd that Janis even bring this point up. He said if you made a mistake of going into flop press, you will never be able to turn the pronation of the kings mover. Well, that's precisely because you made the mistake of flop pressing down the kings mover lane 😅
Janis, you can't serious use this scenario to describe the fairness or lack thereof of kings move
@@CossyMango exactly
Janis- a good way to test your opinion is to become a master kingsmover then announce to the crowd you're going to show them how bad the kingsmove is for armwrestling by defending your opponent in Kingsmove for 30 mins then effortlessly pinning them.
The more popular something becomes the more shittier it gets. Full of masters of the sport everywhere, legends etc. Janis nailing it as usual. Hats off to this man.
Shows how shit culture is today
@@lordmizan4976 how did he nail it? The “fully straight arm both guys hanging under the table” has already been made illegal in pro leagues so it’s not even a thing anymore. Under the table kingsmove is banned. What’s the complaint?
Good video. Don't understand the comments about being salty.
I also had limited ROM in my elbow from arm wrestling and i could for example hang on one arm in end range (150 degrees) with 260 lbs BW, no way I could hang like that for a long time with full flexibility in my elbow. I am amazed that people argue IF having limited elbow extension ROM is a good or bad thing when discussing kings move ability.
Very salty video
No, that's just the taste Devon left in your mouth... Keep sucking..
He knows he got destroyed.! He doesn’t have a legitimate argument
Why are u ghe?
salty fangirls crying in every video because any one with more than 2 brain cells wants that L move out of the sport.
No that's just the taste Devon left in your mouth..
The actual thing is Devon is not in this context, he is just debating about it ..Michel is the one who is doing this shitty straight arm move, Devon rarely does this because it may not be required for him to be in this move 95% of time because he is that strong , and whenever he tries to do that he gets a foul, so its michel you need to mention here, since then under the table/inclined humerus elbow is banned, he is started using the straight arm thing...and now he is sitting silent and the entire world is cheering for him.. Devon talks for him and gets all the hate ..
I think the key point here is that anyone using the floppers wrist will be at a major disadvantage against a locked in Kingsmover, who can just lay back, let the the other guy burn out, and then take back control. The Kingsmover is then resting 1cm away from the pad, while the flop presser is burning himself out. Unfair? I think so, yeah.
Devon will say that: "Haha, he fell into the trap, he lost his wrist!". But, the flop presser is still using his muscles and energy to fight, the Kingsmover is not. Is that good armwrestling?
Man, fuck the haters. You did a great job in that discussion.
NEVER let idiots get into your head!!! Promise that!
Justin bishop put it perfectly when he explained in his video, i dont think the problem is the straight arm i think the problem is the shoulder dipping with a straight bar to gain height
in the hand, it becomes impossible to pin.
There's only 1 or Two people doing this move. There too weak too compete is why.
Latvia has alot to learn
Say it after.. if you will beat Janis
Snarkiness makes you unable to swim
how about making the pin pad 0.5 cm higher then?
Janis seriously stop, I like you but stop, your debate with Devon was unwatchable, surprised Devon had any patience left
Bs. The Debatte was good. You could not watch it because you could not stand Devon get out argumeted
The debate was helpful to see both sides and think through things more, thanks for sharing your honest thoughts Janis. Thinking through it more I'm leaning on the side of pro-kings move, I appreciate the debate though ❤
What about flop wrist press … its also bone lock
You have obviously never armwrestled in your entire life or you would make such a dumb remark
I fully agree with Janis's discerning & logical critique of the so called kings move.
Dont worry about it. Your point is very convincing, there will always be fanboys crying about facts :).
Janis looks like golem from lord of the rings when he's upset
If kings move relies on a bone lock then flop wrist does as well, as getting your shoulder in "testing your frame" in defending against a stronger opponent does. All 3 scenarios present a case where the defender has "lost" either their bicep, wrist, or center table. Should that defender lose? Logic is fun. I like where this is going. A "pure" sport 🫳😂
But Janis won't respond to this.
Shouldder above the taable and there isn't a problem in my opinion. It gets ugly and should be banned in positions that Devon and Michael Todd get into when they fall into the kingsmove...
Its arm wrestling. Wrestling with your arm. Its not called bicep wrestling or wrist wrestling
what a dumb take
For me as a non arm wrestler just a fan, isn’t it a combat sport. As long as weight is made it’s go time. One guy can have a much longer reach and makes it more difficult to get close enough to hit and get a win but it’s just something that needs to be figured out. Same with kings. Just work it out.
Most all pullers were against this move until Devon said it was ok
I think they just gave up! Arguing with Devon publicly never goes well for them.😅
Devon himself says that he puts you so high as an armwrestler and respect u so much. But he was disappointed with you
Janis you are so right keep the good work! Don t listen to heater
He's so wrong actually, just crying because he personally doesn't like the move.I hate flop press but don't bang on about it, someone having there wrist bent right back to the point it is locked then the shoulder behind the arm in a way it can't be moved due to the bone.
At the end of the day, it is opinion on if it is fair or not. I respect your opinion and experience as an armwrestler and physical therapist. The big problem is how to make sure any rule changes wouldn't affect the rest of the sport, and I'd rather we have things as they are than risk taking away too much flexibility just to avoid a very very rare few kings movers winning.
I think everyone understands your argument. Most people don't see it as a problem. You're saying "if the opponent does X, he won't be able to do Y". That's the point of any tactic. When Jerry faced Levan he got no flop press because Levan closed down that path. This is the same thing - find the route. Don't lose your wrist and hand. Learn about the move so you can find a way to counter it.
where you goin buddy?
Video doesn’t show on sub page.
The fact that your making a video explaining your side of the debate after the fact proves Devon is on point and you just got schooled.
I agree 100% even though I am considered a "king's mover" by some. Adding in the shoulder rotation is only possible as the arm becomes straight and doing it even once can wreck the opponents wrist for the rest of the match. A subtle but good example was in a recent match between Artem and Max where, when Max was close to pinning, Artem quickly straightened out his arm to increase his pronation(by adding shoulder rotation) to avoid the pin. Max was smart and strong enough to eventually overcome it but had his wrist been truly cracked it likely wouldn't have recovered for the rest of the match and Artem would have then had the advantage for the remaining rounds. In some ways it makes me think that making a rule against using shoulder rotation might a better way to regulate it? The match in my example is still in a PPV but I can post it once the match goes to youtube.
I can rotate my arm while it's bent 🤷
@@Chris_Ireland Sure. That's normal pronation. Once you straighten your arm you rotate your arm roughly 90-degrees further. Try it. It makes a big difference.
Exactly. In that movement you don't need muscles at all. Just hope that your bones don't break and rotate your whole arm. The force needed to break a bone is much more than what someone can wrist curl.
@@AaronCastillo if the arm becomes straight with the humerus at a level or positive angle you will be pinned. Not an issue anymore.
@@Dmgolfer22 still an issue if you cracked their wrist that way while getting pinned in a super match where there are still rounds to go before the match is completed. If the winner's wrist got cracked just to get the pin in the first round they might now lose all the following rounds because of it. And in a tournament setting that puller might have the rest of his/her day ruined as well.
It‘s that time of the year again, when the discussion for kings move starts.
It is just a move, get over it and learn to beat it. I also don‘t like it but it exists and since the shoulder is above the table is legal.
These guys cannot armwrestle out of the box, so rigid my god!
The Jedi must block them out of his mind...
Janis is 100% correct. Thanks for staying true to the sport, Sir!
Larrat fanboys don't want the rules to change it would make larratt irrelevant lol
This is GOLD. PURE SIGN OF WEAKNESS NO SKILL.. #1 Reason Arm wrestling is a joke... Nailed it bro haters hate since you expose them... Saddest move ever and most abused .
Thank you for telling the truth, Janis! It's the elephant in the room that everyone knows is there but only a few is brave enough to call it out ;)
I agree double kings could be boring, It COULD be. But it could be the same as in wrestling where if both guys are sitting there doing nothing the match can be reset, as long as one guy is trying to advance towards a pin I see the same kind of dynamics as a slow hook match. But besides that I think that our current rules are perfect because kings move can still operate within so there are no significant disadvantages nor advantages.
Im a Devon fan and a Janis fan, But I still agree with Janis on kings move
I thought you made great analogies. You are never going to overcome the cringey devon fanboys on youtube
Weak biceps need the kings move. If you don't have enough power you do the kings move. Jedi keep flexing.
You salty europeans 😂
You braindead knuckle dragging muricans...
It seems to be okay when Cyplenkov used to/does do it. You do what it takes to win, in any (pro) sport. Offence gets all the glory, but Defence wins you the game, even in armwrestling.
keep crying, learn to pull
Why would europeans be salty, almost every champ is european 😂😂😂
unc pushing 50 just train your wrist mate
Agree 100%
Janis, your opinion is unpopular, you lost the debate, 95% of the comments were criticism towards YOU and YOUR points in the comment section, it's not trolls understand that you are wrong and your obsession with becoming an arm wrestling police officer is ridiculous, stop policing this great sport leave it alone, no one appreciates your tyrannical intents, like it or not the most watched arm wrestling matches on youtube have the kingsmove, your paranoia is an enemy of armwrestling
If shoulder is above the table in a kings move, game is on… but kings mover would tend to go below table level and is illegal. Michael todd style. Above table is more like open toproll.
Anyway rule 1 in internet is dont feed the trolls 😂
What are your thoughts of adding a "near fall" system like what exists in folkstyle wrestling?
Is fighting out of the kings move not technically an advantage to the opponent? A person may avoid losing with the kings move, but they can't pin out of it?... Like a person has clearly lost back pressure and the center of the table. To me its seems like its a desperation last move to avoid losing... But that would mean a person stuck in a kings move would still have to fight a uphill battle to gain an advantage back? So what's the problem here. It just means arm wrestlers need to get more technically efficient, and has that not been the whole improvement in the sport over the past 30 years? Smarter fighters?
The problem is they meaning two can sit in that move for days not breaking a sweat then when the opponent wears out the come from the bone lock on to victory
Janis is a living legend. His point makes perfect sense. It's a rules issue mainly. I think the kings move is legit, but I don't think you should be able to go straight arm....
We all love the Jedi but no rules need to be changed my friend. You're one of my favorite arm wrestlers. The only argument I have is you say that people use the Kings move because they lost all their back pressure and their other fundamentals yet you say they bring a gun to a knife fight so which is it?
The salt is coming from his irrelevance
How can a sheep talk about who is irrelevant or not in armwreslting?
This comment just shows you know nothing about arm wrestling if you think Janis is irrelevant.
Here's a little video I've compiled about Kings move aesthetics: watch?v=7fQKDihrWhA
But my biggest concern with the Kings Move is safety and health. Especially when amateurs/newbies and kids start using it, following the example of their favorite arm wrestlers.
Absolute legend! Thank you Janis for speaking FACTS and not caving in to Devon’s popularity and mindless trolls. You nailed your argument. We all saw Devon rotating with his arm inward when Levan fully outstretched his arm. It is just silly to not foul someone at that point.
Facts.
@@r.a.fiallos234 well that was illegal and properly stopped and called a foul. No issue. Terrible example to use
@ the foul was for the declined numerous, not for the side elbow and outstretched arm.
@@r.a.fiallos234 the declined humerus is what made the extended ‘outstretched’ arm possible. If not for the declined humerus, he would have been pinned And elbow pivoting to the side is not a foul. The elbow pivots to the side when pinning as well. In WAF rules You can even have the the elbow not in contact with the elbow pad as long as it’s above the perimeter of the pad while the back of your upper arm is in contact with the pad. So this “elbow to the side” is not a foul.
@ thanks for clarifying. It’s the fully outstretched arm and playing the angles under the table to get away from the pin pad that gets me the most. I just hope it never gets made legal again.
A pure sport ,Denise almost died juicing himself to the gills.Levan is almost the size of a silverback pure indeed
Just be better, no need any changes.
Just be better at more areas, not just one and problem solved.
You can't really be at the world level top 10 and have just 1 lane, so then it's your problem if you can't win.
So it’s fair a guy is straight arm using it as a lever. The much stronger man gets tired out by trying to break the opponent’s arm. I pray Engin gets rid of this move.
@@Justinsox39you are wrong if that's the only way, somehow Genadi won 1st time against MT, Devon won, John won again MK even when shoulder was allowed under the table.
Even Janis said he won against a lot kings movers.
Just you can't rush with kings mover and work smart and have strong hand.
Same goes to other styles, in some styles you don't need strong hand, but strong arm, in some strong back pressure.
If therr would be no way to beat it I would agree with you, but there is.
@ well obviously it’s beatable. Levan would beat me if i used two hands does that make it fair? The kings is a joke. How is Genadi going to pin Todd that last match. He was up on the table pushing as far as possible. Todd just sitting there very comfortable while Genadi gasses. It’s an absolute joke. There is zero honor winning like that. I don’t count those as wins at all
@@Justinsox39armwrestle smarter. Genadi could go back to the centre and try to regrip, climb higher. He had options.
@@Justinsox39 I don't get your point. If MMT was using a defensive side pressure instead and let's say Genadi couldn't drive through the defensive side pressure, that means MMT won without honor? Or does your argument only applies to kings move? Sounds pretty discriminatory towards 1 particular move and not the other defensive move
This is a better approach for you, make sure that there’s no one to present the correct side of things and you can just pontificate however you’d like without being questioned😂
Thank you for acknowledging that you've never lost to the move and establishing this topic is a waste of energy man i respect you very much and learned lots from you and Ray can we please just move on and get back to why top roll is for smart people lol
Just ignore them. All the views and arguing is what they want. Traffic..... exposure. I'm to the point that I'm just going to ignore them.
you loose in the center than you go hit the wall just to escape the pain!!!
maybe u need 30 years more but you will get there buddy -just keep worring about it and it will eventually sink in.
weaker man looses everytime its a super match u have so much time yet you choose to waste it ,same goes in training for it for monhts and then fall face down and hit that wall.
all the guys that crave the rules really want them to use them as the advantage-in mma-ufc we have so many rules yet if you ask top skilled guys who are totally dedicated to the sport they would get rid almost of all the rules-goes to show you who really needs the rules or maybe 60 years to get there!!
Whaa whaa whaa. Hey let's narrow the rules to the point where it loses all subtlety and nobody's doing it anymore. Only a narrow type of competitor and a specific style can be used. Wait, to make it really fair, let's make it a strongman type of competition where the opponents don't armwrestle at all. Rather they compete using armwrestling lifts and it's scored that way. Hey! boxers could use those punching machines, and then be judged on jumping rope and the speed bag. That way they wouldn't have to fight, and there'd be no trickery, or wins by being defensive!
If people dont agree with you call them Devon trolls dont you you? Just stop bro you sound ridiculous.
Janis do you cry about Denis' kingsmove too, or only MMT/Devon when they win?
It seems like it’s almost impossible to enforce. I hate to see a guy like MMT dragging across the table, but I seems like there’s no way to enforce it.
Raise
The
Pin
Pads...... Yeah impossible...
@mymodel6 this is all for MT. If you raise the pin pad then Ermes couldn't have done what he did for Levan, stop close to the pin pad, but not with kings move.
Also Flop pressers would benefit massively like Jerry. Just to make it worse for MT we will make advantages for someone else
@ It would be the same for everyone. Necessary evil..
😂😂😂the guy who knows better than proffesionals@@mymodel6
Horrible idea...@@mymodel6
True !