As an energy systems engineer with lots of building physics in strange circumstances experience, vans are a pain. The only part of a van that really warrants insulation is the roof. Usually, you need a lot less of it than most people think. All you really want to do is bring the roof up in temperature far enough so you don't feel any cold falls. You also want it to be easily removable since no matter what you do you will have some level of moisture problems. This is of course because the van's outer shell doesn't breathe. Moisture will get in there and not out, no matter how many vapour barriers you put in. You are always on borrowed time when you put insulation between water proof layers. That being said, there is a solution we use on low energy and zero energy houses in Sweden. I've designed a few of them and the main problem is how to get moisture out but not loose heat. Usually this is done with a heat recovery ventilation system. These removes moisture from the air but recovers about 90% of the heat. There are units that are designed for as small spaces as 10m2. There are some tricks to putting them in vans (having them run with positive pressure instead of negative) but I think you have enough DIY skills. In any case, best of luck. Hope to see some van work in the future.
I’m a certified energy auditor. Important to pay attention to the places where unlike materials touch. They are the weakest part of construction. As far as condensation and heat loss are concerned, your weakest places are where you have wood supports touching your metal ceiling. If possible, remove everything, take your van down to the metal shell, remove rust, seal all nail/screw holes, and insulate ceilings and sides with spray foam. Put 2” closed cell foam on the floor. On the floor foam float the tongue in groove floor of your choice. Leave 1/2” all around the floating floor to accommodate humidity expansion. If wheel wells are noisy you can cover them with hushmat.
I am a HUGE fan of closed cell spray foam. We have used it on the floor joist, bays, faces, and cheeks of wood in damp crawl space at our cabin. ABSOLUTELY no transfer of vapor. I will use this in one of our Quigley cutaways that I want to use for 4 season travel. Additonally, combustion air for a wood burner is KEY. Going to design my own with vertically orientated 10"x10" box tube. Fire brick lined, window glass, and combustion air coming from outside wood burner for the vans. It'll be like a sailboat stove ...but less expensive!!. Both our cabin and home are so tight that it'll pull a vacuum when we run wood burners that aren't drawing outside air for combustion. In our home itll draw air thru a basement drain traps. Pretty crazy, but SUPER high efficiency and tight structures (vans too!!) will do wierd things
Hi Forest! Make it happen. The joy and beauty of your channel is that where your mind thinks, you heart follows. We'd love to see it happen episode by episode. I remember watching every second of the home depot venture when you first got this van. I WILL BE HERE TO WATCH IT AGAIN! (Townhouse or not lol!) Good luck FF!
I think if possible it would be best to go to family and stay while doing a complete renovation. Just remind yourself "it's not forever" just a place to hangout while the much needed work is done. You can also post content of your hometown for us to see. That'd be cool.
Hey FF, These are my ideas (from someone who's lived in a van for years, often in rainy, freeezing places for months on end) I hope they make sense & can be helpful in making your winter vanlife more comfortable! You're welcome to ask for more info/clarification on whatever I put below. Ceiling: Screw wood directly to metal roof beams (drill sunken holes) attach vapour barrier to the wood / wherever else on the roof, screw tongue & groove into wood blocks in the middle of any sunken holes so there's basically no thermal conductivity between the screws in your heated environment & the cold screws touching the metal of your van. You can try to make the wood blocks the same height as the foam or shorter/longer, whatever works for your specific van. If you want to maximize headroom, you can screw the wood blocks into the side of the roof beams, though will leave less room for vapour barrier etc. If you end up having to screw through the vapour barrier, coat the screw with sealent which will dry and create more of a seal than nothing. Wiring: To maximize space & save future headaches, use oversized conduit behind the barrier (or through the wooden blocks if you make them longer than the foam, it also gives a slight air gap doing that but less room!) make sure to install pull cords in every conduit so you can add/replace wires down the line. Windows: This is purely a think-thought of mine, I've never seen anyone try or test this, to me it simply sounds sound! Build a wooden wall (Like most people do i.e. ply, chipboard etc.) cut out window holes (2x the length of the window) for each window & when making the windowsills leave the slit made by cutting the wooden covers uncovered, you can use these wooden covers as sliding window covers, you can attach a lip on the inside of the cover so it doesn't fall into the slit/use as a handle & use some hook/clamping mechanism to keep the wooden covers up, this will provide thermal protection & somewhat of a vapour barrier, you can get some of the same window channel material (felt lined rubber) that your van's windows run in to help create a seal & create a nice shlippery surface for your wooden covers to run in. It's simple (even if I've failed to explain it simply) low maintenance & setup cost... IF you're buying walls anyway. Cherries on top would be, insulated curtians as well. Dividing wall (Front): If you care about being able to get from the back to the front without going outside, Mispronounced Adventures made a cracking looking sliding door in his van, I don't have a better solution than MA so 'ave it it! If push comes to shove blast the diesel heater for a few hours, once it gets above 30 degrees C the humidity starts falling off a cliff, you probably want to do that while out for a wee hike, for Rocko's sake as much as your own, some of us like that heat, most don't! xD When you get back open the door, yes you're wasting the heat / money running the heater, but that's well worth not having damp / mould. Again, feel free to ask for more info on this. I know how difficult these builds are & the consequences of months long cold winter weather so I'm happy to do my bit helping you not have to deal with that! -MiGly
@@TheLampini Nice! I've stayed by a few canals and it looks quite peaceful, I bet there's some lovely stretches of Canal away from any roads. Aye the damp needs to be kept in constant check by dampwarriers! xD
Wood stove should take care of the moisture, maybe a cold air intake that is thermostat controlled would make wood last more efficiently!!! Also your diesel heater can it be converted to petroleum/unleaded fuel ,you can tap into the vehicles fuel tank ! There should be an auxiliary tap on top of tank in fuel sending unit!!! I be careful of spray in foam it may have cancer causing fumes !!!!
We have a cabin near Cranbrook with a full workshop and a bunkhouse on two acres. We’re below mount bill nye and Lakit peak, which you hiked. Let us know if you’d like to do your van renos here.
Simon, my husband is a retired, journeyman, mechanical insulator. We’ve been discussing building out a bus. But the one thing we do know is spray foam is the way to go. If you can manage it, it will save you such a headache later on. Good luck love to Rocco. Will be watching no matter what you build or where you go. ❤
Watch chuck cassidy videos on bus build out (UA-cam). He’s focused on buses but all the principals are the same. His video on insulation is first rate. The cans of foam from HD would cost as much as hiring someone.
Spray foam. It’s insulating and vapour barrier, sound deadener, all in one! For the amount of work involved, it’s the only way I’d go. Good luck with whatever route you decide….keep on truckin!
Hey Foresty! Long time viewer, first time commenter. I'm a building scientist from the East coast, and I love you're ideas to cold weather proof the van. CC foam is a smart choice. It has a higher R-value per inch when compared to open cell, and when applied correctly, can also air seal pretty effectively. Being said, installing a vapor barrier to seal in the foam is still a good idea. Think of the insulation as your base layers of clothing. It helps hold/reflect your body heat in to keep you warm. The vapor barrier would be your outside layer, like a wind breaker or ski jacket shell. It cuts the wind down that would otherwise be wicking heat from your base layers. This greatly increases the effectiveness of the base layers. I do have one suggest with an additional caveat: Adding a 2x2 spacer between the CC foam cavities will lead to excess thermal bridging between your aluminum roof and the 2x2 spacers. In other words, heat will be able to transfer much faster through the spacers, decreasing the effectiveness of the CC foam surround them. Instead, I would get rid of the spacers all together and just fill the gaps with CC foam. In reality, you will still need some of the spacers to be able to install the tongue and groove. Consider reducing the number of spacers you'll need to cut back on thermal bridging. Here's the caveat: Any wire runs in-between your roof assembly that get sprayed with foam are near impossible to get out, make repairs, or add new runs to. Once the foam has cured, nobody is getting to those wires easily. Absolutely love your channel dude, keep on doing you! Hopefully you were able to gleam something useful from the above suggestions.
I agree with everything said above.....Simply adhere a solid sheet of 2" closed cell rigid foam to your roof using upward force then do the same with the ceiling materials. Also simply run outwards wiring conducts to be able to repair or add something in the future. It can simply be 2" slip-loom...nicely clamped in place, either painted or not. it is what it is extremely functionable. Exactly the same as you van is now. I have plenty of other thoughts but this is enough for now...
Spray foam is the best choice since it sticks directly to the metal and will not condensate at that point. Don't attempt a vapor barrier in a vehicle it's not worth it and I seriously doubt it's even possible. Get the foam shot by a professional, the mix has to be just right and let it off gas for two weeks before you start reinstalling your gear. Use 3m thinsulate insulation with a spray adhesive around the window frames it antimicrobial and made specifically for vehicles. Your doors and door frames are thermal bridges and will always condensate but thinsulate insulation should help.
Our experience is this: Use 3M Thinsulate Acoustic/Thermal Insulation SM600L. Apply with 3M Hi-Strength 90 CA Spray Adhesive. Cover everything, and get inside ribs. Use Ancor 131325 Triplex Cable, 12/3 AWG, Flat for AC and 121110 Duplex Cable, 10/2 AWG, Flat for DC wiring above ceiling and in walls. We’ve never found a moisture barrier that worked well. So we always vent our space via a modified ceiling MaxxFan, even in our coldest vanlife weather (-15ºC). Hoping for best results with your project.
Restoration carpenter here. There is a book called “keeping the heat in” by natural resource Canada. Has a lot of good info. Your insulation idea is good; and any spot where you have cavity’s you cant get rigid insulation in, try ROCKWOOL brand, or something similar(because it will get rid of the water if it does get wet). And lastly, for your boots, I’d say have a vent for the diesel heater to point at them. Get them dried out in an hour or two( or the electric boot dryers work well) while your cooking supper, so you can vent all the moisture before you close windows and hunker down for the night. Big fan, cheers
Hey Foresty, this is my 1st comment on your channel. I think you should plan to go down to Arizona next winter, rent a place, and take your time to do the job right. Don't give up your summer plans. Those are your best videos. Great idea to upgrade your van for the future.
I can't talk about Condensation, sorry, Rocco, but I can say was so happy to hear you are going to work with your van you have now. I love how piece by piece it was put together to make the perfect amazing set up you have. Everything in its place and so handy. I remember you starting out and you finished up with an amazing build. I like the idea of blocking off the back and having an door to the front. So much cozier in the frigid weather of the winters. Excellent plans!
Professional sprayed two part foam, 2" min over all the metal. Your system may work but I have never made it done that way. New two or three pane windows. Worth the cost. Put the stove at the floor level and pipe in the combustion air. Only the best for Rocco. Bob in Nevada
12 volt dehumidifier (for sailboats, etc) might be worth looking at because you're going to be breathing all the time inside the van. Not sure about insulation though.
I'm just a 77 year old, long time follower who really appreciates your Quigley 4x4 van. Keep thinking insulated curtains for dividing areas when needed and spray on roof insulation gives you more options and overall living space.
Keep that van........You may want Fluid Film Rust & Corrosion Protection it saves the frame and sheet metal........Best part is the bolts and threads under there don't get locked with rust. Look it up if you would like.
I glued the pink foam to the ceiling & walls directly using construction adhesive for foamboard, and glued & screwed 1"x4" boards to the ribs to use as mountpoints, and covered all of that up with the normal walls boards, and used spray foam to fill in the gaps. I also used rubberized undercoating on everything before the foamboard to help prevent mold, and all of that seems to work out very well for me.
The 2” wood will become a thermal bridge and condensation will happen at that wood area. (My thoughts) The vapour barrier concept is not that a vapour barrier stops condensation. You need a minimum (a lot) of insulation. Imaging just a vapour barrier installed on the bare metal. You’ll have condensation on that vapour barrier(plastic) form. Because the cold plastic will touch the warm air and then create moisture(condensation). I toured 3 months, full time, in winter on a ski trip trough out the Rockies. In a nice new travel trailer. We didn’t heat too much, had a dehumidifier going when we were inside and the thing basically rotted from the inside out. I’d say less is more, like you have it , or lots of insulation. And keep in mind, if a place has less insulation and might be prone to condensation, make sure it’s not wood or fibre glass insulation that will sock up and hold moisture. Ridged foam is best. Good luck with your future plans. All the best.
Humidity will happen, but condensation is optional. CC foam only as it cannot absorb or hold humidity. It doesn't need to be thick; anything will be a great improvement over none. Metal is extremely good at conducting heat or cold so metal isolation will be crucial. Consider Tyvek as a breathable but waterproof membrane plus it isolates from the metal. Alternately thin CC foam sheeting is sold as underlayment for floating or laminate plank floors. Also keep weight to a minimum- it adds up faster than you think. Instead of T&G you can get wood paneling with the same pattern- much lighter and the same look. Instead of walls, consider blanket or quilt curtains with magnets to close the gaps. They do more than you think they will and do not permanently change the space like walls do. Cross-flow ventilation, from bottom at one end to top at the other end, is most effective; arrange as you please but be sure the bottom one can be totally sealed to keep the outside outside when traveling. A lot of times there's enough inherent air leakage to just do a top exhaust vent; power it if you prefer. Also remember that there will be condensation on the metal behind the interior surfaces. Most vehicles have plugs underneath in areas that may collect water. Some have 'weep holes' or channels for water to escape, and some don't. If yours are sealed, either drill a small hole in each or use a razor knife to slit them by pushing straight in; 3/4" or 20mm slits should be enough to break the air seal but keep water from entering from the roads and puddles. You also need to arrange ventilation over the cooking area. An insulated small area is a cinch to heat; lose the insulation and it can take 5X the BTU's to get the same effect.
I was here when you bought this van and watched you build it out in them parking lots, in the winter, in CANADA...! It was very impressive - I design and build things for a living and wish I could help you out even though I know you don't really need it. I'm looking forward to this upcoming "story line" I made wood "ribs" like wide flat upside down "T's" that I screwed directly to the metal structures that support the roof and floated aromatic cedar panels I milled and glued up between them. The ribs support the panels so no screws in the panels themselves. I used rivnuts to secure everything I built in my van. Good luck!
I will watch whatever you do. Having said that, I like the idea of wiring that is external in a conduit. Having been a factory trained wiring technician for a GMC dealer, I like the idea of ease of servicing the wiring. I also really like your choice of van. it's very capable, and there are still things you can repair without constantly taking it to a professional. All the best to everyone.
Probably a good Idea that Moresty hosts the insulation debate 😅 They say a nice uniform layer of spray foam is good and acts as its own vapor barrier, but it is a pia to apply and can be expensive. Could be hard to frame over and screw your cedar to. The initial plan for my van was straight spray foam but ended up going with 3/4" foam board between the supports, then spray foamed the channels between, and then foil taped the seams. Ceiling panels are screwed into the supports which are insulated from the roof from the factory, by a line of spray foam. I think keeping a bit of ventilation is the key because the moisture has to go somewhere, a lot of Europeans seem to put in permanent floor vents at strategic places. For prolonged extreme cold I want to install a second diesel heater at the back of my van, possibly a 2kw to save space and have a better heating range. Probably a good idea to have 2 anyway😅 Shrinking the heated space works and is a good move, I'm just using blankets now but a garage/cab walls would be the ideal situation and open up some storage.
I would worry about vibration causing the glue to fail over time. A house is one thing but a van experiences a lot of movement during its life. Good luck, I'm sure you viewers will have some good suggestions.
I build all sort of unique and crazy things for a living. The modern adhesives are completely amazing. I used Titebond Premium Platinum $14-16 a caulk tube to hold down stainless (warped) to wood structure on reclaimed tables to be rolled and rough handled in a convention center of 10 acres under roof. . NOT one issue. It was a CRAZY clamping job, but I got the warps pulled down and DAMN it is still holding. Worth every penny.
while I agree that standing up is important, the way FF uses the van, the low roof and stiffness a full metal roof provides over a topper is probably more important.
Another UA-camr is currently having major leak problems with the high top she had installed. With all the bouncing movement Simon’s van goes through I’m not sure any seal would hold up.
@@DanitaReynolds Depends on what it is and who did it. Mine has been up the Alcan, out to Kennecott, Nabesna, and done the Copper River Hwy twice in the last 2 years. Up to the top of the Eel river etc. And it rains a LOT where I live. No leaks yet. fingers crossed.
I have disassembled several high topper vans. The key is to weld on a sub frame once you get to hole cut out. ALL of the ones I took apart were ambo/wheel chair "crash survivable" people movers. That frame holds fiberglass in place and keeps seals in tact. The tenacity of the high-end sealants is AMAZING. I literally lifted a whole back of a 2011 e350 ambo by the seal holding the roof on, it was quite enlightening. The other advantage, if done tight to roof underside it enables you to walk ALL over the roof without wind drag of additonal framing on the OUTSIDE of the van. That is CRITICAL for me as historically we spend many nights on the roof under the stars, and is our preferred way to camp if weather/bugs permit.
Seems like a good plan Foresty....finding the right adhesive is always the hard part. I worked in hardware stores for 10 years and I would always recommend contacting the companies that make the products you are thinking of using, they want to help in most cases and are experts in their niche field. Definitely try to find a way to keep the wiring accessible, after my stint in the hardware industry I worked in the marine industry as well.....its amazing how far moisture can travel up a wire and cause mayhem that can be very hard to isolate. Thanks and best of luck to You and Rocko.
I always keep all the windows cracked just a little when I'm sleeping in the vehicle, regardless of temps. That's why I want those little window visors so precip doesn't get in. I wonder why your wood stove isn't more than warm enough already, you see Lost Lakes camping in -35 with his hot tent all the time. It should be helping more with your condensation issue but it won't work if all the airflow in the vehicle is closed off that's for sure. To prevent condensation requires not only a heat source but also a cold air intake - the cold air is drier than the air inside the vehicle and when you warm it up its moisture capacity increases, it picks up moisture, and then you have to let that hot air out too. Without good cold air intake and hot air exhaust, you'll never stop the condensation. A hot tent is dry because it is made of permeable canvas.
Happy April Fools Day, Foresty Forest! 🃏🃏🃏 Last year, a little birdie told me that Foresty was going to accept a new job with Canadian Geographic. Now I am reading that his old phone was found on Mt. Delphine and is being revived AND he has purchased a brand new, very expensive, luxury camper van from Italy. Don't know what to believe, so just like last year, I will have to wait and see what comes to pass. 🃏🃏🃏🃏🃏🃏🃏🃏🃏🃏 P.S. If the new camper van part is not a joke........ Congratulations!
You should definitely keep this van. What's the point of paying for a nice new van when it won't stay nice long. Riding in those tight trails puts scratches in the paint, not to mention all the dents you'll put in it. If you change the oil frequently (every 5k miles) and the transmission oil every 100k (miles), it will last hundreds of thousands of miles. Given you do a lot of miles in a short period of time, age will not be ruining the suspension and exhaust. But given the weight you carry and frequent non-paved roads you drive on, you should probably do a full inspection of the suspension parts including all the rubber.
❤😂❤ okay Simon I am headed outside to the van to pull the humidity gauge out from behind the wall between the foam board that has foil facing facing out to the skin wall of the van and then the foil wrapped bubble insulation. This morning it was at 30% I'm going to go check it now in the afternoon in various places because like I said we did not tack it down even though it looks like a spaceship😮😮❤😮 it is only taped and strategic places from the wall standpoint the ceiling is already done but the walls the bubble wrap insulation is basically just hanging there in sections taped along the different struts😮 I'll come back this afternoon to let you know what the humidity levels are now and then I will check them again later on tonight😮 Simon I live in an environment almost identical to yours and I have waited all winter to complete this job because I was concerned about the moisture and the condensation that was collecting while I was in the van so I was very careful about what I would do I would measure out the foam board but I wouldn't put it up cuz the walls were damp😮😮 I spent $73,000 on this girl and I want to make sure that the woman that inherits it doesn't have a nightmare on her hands😂😂😂 stay tuned folks the experiments continue
Okay at 4:00 in the afternoon with the sun shining on the other side of the van the moisture on both sides under the bubble wrap in between was down to 20%😮 the temperatures are cooling off and we actually have snow coming in a couple of days😮
Looking through the other comments, I noticed that no one has mentioned Havelock Wool. We are currently building out our Promaster van, and after A LOT of reading and UA-cam videos, we have decided on Havelock Wool. It is a little bit pricey, you don’t need a vapor barrier, it is not toxic, it breathes, has a good R value and saves time for the installation. We also have used Rivnuts to fasten our ceiling support wood , after stuffing the wool into the ceiling ribs, without having to screw more holes in the van. We bought the Rivnut kit at Harbor Freight, but you can also ordered them online.
i might look into some kind of polyurethane spray insulation. i don't know anything about it, just brainstorming. we love Rocco so much. Special little girl there.
There's a lot of indirect light coming from the rear and front windows. You might miss that if you put up front and rear walls. Love that shot set-up catching a side of the art glass. Surprised it still hanging in there.
I just love your videos so much man. even if it is you just talking about condensation and doing back of the napkin insulation diagrams, I still find it very therapeutic and healing. Thank you my friend.
Yeah, I was a little worried about the twin brother, good to know he's doing alright. And its nice of him to help out in the insulation build, that will give brother Foresty time to video his hiking/climbing. Sounds good and take care !!
I’m about to do my third round of vehicle dwelling. I do no build setups typically, but I think this time I’m gonna build an actual bed. You’re on the other end of the spectrum, it just blows my mind how intense you get with building your vehicle out. Props, but not my style. 🙂👍
The insulation plan seems pretty spot on to me 👍 That really surprises me the wood burner didn’t help . My old trailer had gas heating and had the worst condensation and moisture problem to the point the walls started bowing . I then put in my wood burner and it cured everything. It’s seemed to me that it was just a different type of heat it pumped out which stopped even the condensation on my window. That was many years ago and made a wood burner my go to heat source in all my vehicles from the on . Had a kitchen AGA in my American school bus which is all windows and that was dry as a bone .
Hey Simon, can not blame you for wanting to keep and reno your van esspecially since you have maintained it . sounds like a great plan you have , Look forward to seeing the reno .
Your van layout is one of my favorites and you seem happy with it and so does Rocko (love when she hangs out by the wood stove during snow days.) The improvements to make it better insulated/closed in make sense. Of course, I keep my cars till they’re falling apart and my furniture stays put once I get it the way I like it, so I’m biased.
Hi F F. Always run wiring where it is easiest to access . Having done more than my share to van travel I know there are many gremlins waiting to cause havoc.. You would be amazed how wiring can cause a lot of issues. Having access to all your wiring is so important. So easy to add accessories or remove or replace them. My van was the same as yours. Bare from the factory I was able to handle most issues that pop up. And your mechanic will also be very happy from time to time. Safe travels. ✌️🤓
If you keep the van have you considered picking up a used conversion van hightop roof, Would have to cut the roof but an extra 8-12” of headroom/ vertical storage could add a lot of comfort
Hey Foresty! Take your time and make it happen! We can definitely wait a while before new content pops up. Especially if it will increase your overall well-being in the van! :D I can recommend watching "greg virgoe" when it comes to insulation since he's an engineer and professional doing things like heat-loss calculations for commercial buildings. He has some pretty great videos on how these things work... that way you can make good and informed decisions on insulation based on science By the way, regarding adhesive... I'm just kind of worried that the rubber mat will give up due to things like extreme heat from the roof and the weight of the wood ceiling. Wouldn't it be possible to support the beams through the kitchen construction and perhaps (oh man, this is gonna get really hard to explain without drawing) build a bedframe like Ikea's KURA. That way you will have support from the floor on both the kitchen and bed side. :) Just an idea, but you have likely done far more research than me. So you do you in the end. :D
I’m late to this party, but I’d suggest you watch a few of the sailing channels. Sailing Florence is currently winterizing. Some things I’ve noticed is the use of headliner panels rather than tongue and grove. Will help to keep the weight down and maximize your headroom.
You can build a winter only dehumidifier by running a duct loop that forces cold outside air through a metal condensator inside the vehicle and then back outside. Put a fan on or near the condensator to pass humid air over the cold surface. At no point should outside air be entering the vehicle. The only powered components are low draw dc computer fans. Copper heat exchangers and smaller vehicle radiators make for good condensators. This will only function effectively if they outside temperature is significantly colder than the inside temperature, but those are usually the times when humidity is the biggest concern so it works out.
In an enclosed environment, moisture comes from the human body, and prevention of mold and rust can be done with air flow via fans, but also pulling some air from the outside and pushing some air out. Pulling in a small amount of cold air will increased heat cost a little bit but is the price we pay for reduced moisture. Some people simply don't use fans when sleeping but air out the whole cabin when they wake. It's good to have some space for blown air to reach potential traps of moisture. A couple in a small RV traveling Finland this past winter had vents. These vents were installed by the manufacturer in a couple places the floor and are always open. Hot air will not escape downwards but some air flow is allowed.
How about spray foam insulation? We did it at our lake house in the ADK’s hunting camp to year round residence..old 2x4 construction and it was tightly sealed..-24 F with a propane heater. Fast installation no moisture issues..it’s also cuts the outside noise.
Man your are my favorite youtuber to listen to talk about things and its funny to me you are self conscious about talking to your camera by yourself or around others, because you definitely do a great job at just talking and being an easy to listen to person. So i appreciate that just so you know my man 🤘
Loctite PL Max Premium is the strongest construction adhesive that I know of. I'ved used it when hanging ceiling drywall. An HVAC contractor ran a supply duct in an area where a full sheet terminated. Used the PL stuff and it held a 2 x 8 sheet of 1/2" drywall on the face of the duct no problem. We were able to use drywall screws along the wall seam but the rest of the sheet was held up by the adhesive. 20 min adjustment time but still grabbed immediately and held it up. The unknown is the jostling that you are going to experience. That house we hung it in stays pretty still :)
Foresty I am currently planning my next build for my E350 and have an idea for you. I have decided to learn how to sew like you do. It is your *superpower* and I want to learn how to do it too. I'm planning to insulate with quilted, polyfill blankets similar to parka material. The blankets will be custom tailored for each wall panel/window, ceiling section. The blankets will be fitted with small sewn in neodymium magnets around their perimeter that will stick to metal mounting points around the frames they are meant to cover. The blankets can easily be quickly removed or put up as needed. If they absorb too much moisture they can be set out to dry or taken to the laundromat for washing or drying {remember they are synthetic polyfill material, not down}. I may also add a layer of aluminized fabric or maybe that silvery bubble wrap insulation material {that's very lightweight and only a few millimeters in thickness}. The reflective material faces inward and really works at reflecting radiative heat back to you. And underneath the polyfill material will literally serve as a big insulative blanket for the entire interior. Best part is it's fairly cheap, very lightweight and comparatively easy to achieve in a way that you could get done before peak season. Also, the moisture management should be pretty good as long as you don't hole up too long in a wintry setting and have the opportunity to let the blanket system air out from time to time. You could make it permeable/breathable nylon or waterproof...or maybe thinsulate? Thinsulate has the ability to let water vapor pass through, but not liquid water. You'd also have the benefit of being able to remove the blankets from the windows easily when you want, retaining viewability when you want it back. Anyway, thought I'd throw that out there. If anyone could execute the blanket system successfully, you could. Plus, you should have all the tools you need to get it done with you already. Good luck whatever you do! 👍
GREAT outside the box thinking. The other thing perhaps you didn't realize is , is if the material is at least a little absorbent its acting like a buffer to absorb vapor during the night and then release during the day. I have designed my root cellar like this with cement board. Root cellars NEED moisture, NOT dripping, but dampness and in the underground setting it never dries, but hold and radiates as needed
@@reidcrosby6241 Thanks, yes I suppose it could serve as a moisture wick and release system. Similar to how adobe walls work in the desert. They absorb the desert heat all day and then at night when it's cold, they slowly radiate the heat back inside the house. Main thing is I'd like to be able to easily and quickly remove or partially vent the blankets to release any trapped moisture under them or in them when it's convenient. I just need to get a sewing machine, learn how to use it [as Foresty does] and then get started experimenting.
As an old bodyman and former shop owner i'll tell you this.... adhesives will fail in the cold with vibration, so will butyl tapes, even more so. At the end of the day it's a van and I would look more as to how they spray insulate sea cans for the roof and walls. I used to tell my clients in cold temperatures one of the best ways to eliminate moisture from a vehicle was to crack the window 3/4" and let the natural vacuum suck the moisture out. Speaking to you from northern Manitoba so i know a thing or two about cold. good luck.
The interesting thing about insulating a van compared to a house is that in a house, the outer surface is vapor-permeable (wood cladding). In a van, the outer surface is sheet metal, meaning it is 100% impermeable. This has made me suspect of a lot of advice I've seen from home builders. I think if you're going to do a vapor barrier it's best if it is adhered directly to the metal, such as spray-foam or flexible closed-cell foam with adhesive backing and foil coating (see this a lot on british builds, it seems - they have wet weather but not very cold weather). Since the entire structure is adhered directly to the van and every layer is vapor proof (closed cell foam is its own vapor barrier, a foil backing just makes it 100%), then there is no cavity for moisture to get into and hang around. I am not sure what is the best solution and there are many methods that seem to "work" well enough... as for longevity, I don't think anyone has data to make verifiable claims. that's my thinking so far. not an expert just someone else currently considering options. I think most of the spray-foam builds I've seen are from very cold climates - norway, AK, CA, etc so there might be something to that. My understanding is that spray foam can potentially warp the metal panels as it adheres and expands. You probably don't care much as it's already dinged up. To avoid this it must be applied in very even, very thin layers that even professionals sometimes mess up. It's fine for a BUS because there aren't huge pieces of sheet metal to warp, and skoolies care a lot less about the looks. But it has the best R-value per unit of THICKNESS by a good margin which is what we care about in a van - maximizing internal volume. Also, spray foam is super permanent, it's never coming out. And with all the windows in your van you may not care about completely maximizing the insulation as it will have diminishing returns with so much glass.
Another quick comment, years ago I ran a home repair business out of a cargo van. Having an insulated curtain between the cabin and the back of the van made a huge difference during cold New England winters and it helped keep condensation from the heater off my tools. Mike from MASS.
Not only can Rocco drive, she knows sarcasm as well. I believe that foam board or spray foam does not require an additional vapor barrier. Any gaps in the foam board can be filled with cans of expanding foam,and I believe the canned foam can also be used to adhere the foam board to the ceiling. Mike from MASS.
Thinking outside of the box here. I would find an old raised roof van and salvage the fiberglass top. Preferably the mid rise, then place a minimum of 2” of foam on the outside surface of the van roof. This of course would be a false raised roof but it would allow complete uninterrupted insulation which would create no thermal bridging and a possible bonus would be some storage up there. Then I would look into spraying foam underneath the van as well. Thus minimizing any headroom loss inside an already small area.
Continuing in this vein you could fabricate exterior insulated shutters for the windows. I’m thinking aluminum treadplate with foam on hinges. This would provide an awning in the summer as well.
If I were you, for starters I’d remove the back two windows, at least, cover them with sheet metal, insulate and cover with 1/4” plywood. The less glass the better. I also think if you rip everything out to the ribs, the best solution is spray insulation. If I did another build I’d do that instead. Definitely go where you have help when needed, someone to bounce ideas off and a warm, dry place to sleep/eat. I’d be happy to help if I didn’t live on the opposite side of the states. I agree with keeping the devil you know too, rather than buying something newer.
There are air-to-air heat exchangers for RVs that run on 12V. They bring in fresh air from outside for ventilation through a heat-exchanger that keeps more heat in the interior. I've also heard them called fresh air recuperators.
I think any insulation is going to make a big difference. No taping and sealing. No spray foam. Nothing that makes a mess or makes a P.I.T.A in the future. Just put a layer of 3M Thinsulate blanket and affix your wood panels through it like they are now to the van structure. For the windows, make some "Owens Corning FOAMULAR 1/2 in Rigid Foam Board Insulation" inserts and black one side and white/design/silver the other side (interior). They are wicked good insulators and you can stash them on the not so cold days. They also make for good SUMMER insulation to keep cool with the silver facing out. The 3M Thinsulate breaths well and works well. It also compresses well for use as curtains and dividers. Windows are probably your biggest source of heat loss due to both the infra-red loss and conductive. Good luck and can't wait to see what you come up with!
I was watching your skiing video and you mentioned putting off the rebuild. It hit me that you could insulate the van without taking it apart using two part epoxy expanding foam. Unlike spray foam two part epoxy foam reacts and expands in an air free environment, where spray foam requires air to react. Epoxy foam is used in boats, planes and racing cars as along with insulating properties its structural, meaning it adds stiffness to whatever you fill. Anyway, it reacts at a ratio of around 30:1 so you have to be careful but you could mix batches and inject it into your walls, your nooks and crannies. This is very similar to the foam that is used to spray onto the inside of roofs/buildings for insulation. Just a wild n crazy idea for you. I use the stuff to make form fitted seats for racing drivers and to fill aluminum box like crushable structures on race cars that protect the driver in an impact.
Hey there!!! My wife and I also have condensation issues and we found that a 12 V DC Dehumidifier helps quite a bit! With windows closed in sun zero temps, it pulls about 1/3 cup water throughout the night. We have the grizzly cubic mini and thought it would help, but doesn’t. Building a garage and boxing off the front cab is a fantastic idea. We built an insulated garage and with that we can carry a chainsaw and never smell fumes. Great video !!
Ill just drop this lil facto for your future reno. "Marine grade" look into marine grade building materials and Havelock Wool for insulating. Instead of tongue and grove porous wood, i would suggest "PVC wall panelling" like "Trusscore".
Good approach to insulating the roof. The tricky part seems to be gluing the 2 x 2's in there securely enough to attach the ceiling to? I know you don't want to puncture the vapour barrier at all, but in houses it gets stapled to the studs, which seems to work OK . You could possibly screw the 2x2's directly to the metal ceiling, the bottoms flush with the rigid insulation, and run the vapour barrier smoothly under both materials. To minimize puncturing the vapour barrier you could then run thin cross pieces at right angles to the 2x2's, maybe every 3 feet, and then attach the ceiling to them at right angles. You could put globs of sealant on the cross pieces before you screw them into the 2x2's, to make a tighter seal. It would lower the ceiling a bit I guess. Just a thought, if it turns out you can't get the 2x2's glued in securely enough. Good luck!
I live alone in a Minnesota small town in a 4 bedroom, 2 bath house and a 2.5 stall garage, you could stay here for free and work on whatever you wanted for as long as you wanted. Multiple stores nearby for supplies.
Your vapor barrier plan makes good sense, I also always wonder when I see someone screw into the barrier why would they do that, especially with so many really good adhesives available now days. I am one of those people that likes to solve a problem on paper before jumping into it, I'm not good once I jump but the plans are always well thought out! Be well and be safe!
Seems to me that using rubber membrane in concert with vapor barrier as is done with window installation in cold climate home construction might be part of the calculus.
Sounds like you have it figured out. Whatever route you take, we'll be along for the ride because anything that keeps the channel going and creating great content, I'm all in! 👍👌💪
Just an idea with the roof. What if you put supports spanning across from either side of the walls to support the ceiling and those supports would be anchored to the walls. Then the only material you would only need to glue is the insulation. You’re definitely on the right track with adding an insulated walls to the front and back. I would also suggest window coverings maybe made out of that reflective material. Look forward to watching the build. Good luck 🤞
You are crazy smart and resourceful. An HRV is embarrassingly simple. A couple blowers and alternating layers of coroplast that let the heat pass from the exhaust air to the fresh air - add a drip tray to catch the resulting moisture from the cooling humid exhaust air. Build your rear insulating / dividing wall out of 6-8 layers of 1/4" coloplast.
@@petrushka1611 Heat Recovery Ventilator. A device that exhausts stale, warm, humid air and draws in fresh, cool, dry air. The 2 airstreams flow past each other in a passive heat exchanger so that some of the precious heat you created inside the home is transferred to the cool incoming air reducing your heating costs. Mandatory in pretty much all new home construction in Canada. Used to cost effectively reduce humidity in winter.
I would go with the rear wall and possible a thermal curtain up front. Cheap and easy. Then you could decide if you wanted a permanent front wall. I plan on going with a thermal curtain for the front of my build. I like the idea of being able to use the cab area for space when needed. Possible store wet boots in the cab on other side of thermal curtain.
My van is electric. I got a de-humidifier that keeps relative humidity below condensation point. Although there are plenty of cold-bridges etc. Air is just to dry to condensate. Don't go dryer than needed, as your breathing becomes dry. I don't need to go lower than 60% rel. Problem fixed, no foggy windows neither. Heating smallest area possible is key.
Condensation can be reduced by running a fan and having air movement in the cabin. Even i extreme cold open a window a crack to bring down the humidity level. Even just for a short period of time a few times a day will help.
You know best, but I’ll say this. You have a great project going with your channel, don’t be to afraid to invest in it. You have plenty of support here amongst your followers that are more than willing to contribute. You bring so much joy and value to those of us that follow you. The van is great, it’s done well. I’m sure you aren’t concerned about luxury, but im concerned that toy might be downplaying comfort. I say go big!! Think of your dream build! What would be the ultimate van 3.0? I know you have been thinking about a tacoma? Do that! Take it to the max! Why not?
IMO as somebody who renovates and am a Canadian Engineer let me give you an alternative idea. You can seal off like you are referring to, or you can create a breathable insulation space. A breathable insulation space is one where the insulation has capillary abilities. Meaning it has the ability to transmit humidity, but at a reduced speed. You can seal your car, but then you run the problem that any moisture that is caught will cause rust. Let me illustrate. You are going up and down the mountains right? Imagine creating a sealed space that has trapped air. Going up and down will automatically cause an expansion and contraction your entire wood, vapour barrier and so on. This is why when you have dual pane window it must be altitude rated. By having a breathable insulated space any air that is caught will leak, and no vacuums will be created. Breathable insulated space means using natural insulation. That can be wood fiber, wool or cannabis (not the illegal stuff). Then you put on a breathable vapour barrier where the SD < 5 or just a thin layer of tongue and groove OSB (9mm). On top of that you put your wood siding. In this configuration you will be kept toasty warm, and yet breathable. It is absolutely CRITICAL that you only use natural materials that can breath. You CANNOT use air tight paint. You must use a stain. You cannot put vinyl or plastic on top as the area must always be allowed to breath. Slowly breath of course, but breathe.
Rocko has heard this convo before😂 funny I'm really surprised woodstove didnt help. I used to live in a shipping container...metal SWEATS!! When we painted the interior, that made it rain inside! Only thing that helped was when we added a layer of plastic on top of roof (raised off the roof a little) That probably doesnt help but.. its a tough problem...good luck. Glad youre keeping your van..theres no such thing as perfect...yours is pretty close for you!
Pull everything out, strap the inside and sprayfoam the inside. screw the interior to the strapping. Like @kati-ana said earlier, come home and do the renos. Your mom and Dad have a great garage and it would be great to meet you.
A compact, rapid dehumidifier is the answer. After running 6 hrs a day for 3 days then once a week thereafter. You will be amazed how much moisture is recovered plus it eradicates mould
Nope, the nails into the 2X2 will migrate cold and heat and cause condensation in the ceiling. You need to use spray foam as it will seal and is a powerful adhesive. Then you can apply (glue) nice paneling for your finished ceiling, thus saving valuable headroom.
Closed cell insulation is a vapour barrier. If you are super concerned about vapour. Use furring strips to isolate the VB. Insulting things with foam is good if you can keep it tight. Spray foam will be a helpful tool
The problem with vehicles, and campers like airstreams is the thermal bridging. Like around the windows. Sure we had storm windows to install inside but the window frames themselves would always have ice on them. Condensation meets freezing surface... The thermal bridge is a piece of metal that's outside that also continues to inside the vehicle. Which for most vehicles is every square inch of the vehicle body.
It's nice to hear real issues and things like the wood stove that didn't work for drying out the van but is still sold as a great source of dry heat to remove condensation. Maybe have a video once in as while sharing what doesn't work. Maybe make it a tech series so we can quickly reference them all in the future. Great content, brother!
If only moresty could rebuild the van while foresty is mountaineering
He can take the van out and build it out in the forest! :)
😂
As an energy systems engineer with lots of building physics in strange circumstances experience, vans are a pain. The only part of a van that really warrants insulation is the roof. Usually, you need a lot less of it than most people think. All you really want to do is bring the roof up in temperature far enough so you don't feel any cold falls. You also want it to be easily removable since no matter what you do you will have some level of moisture problems. This is of course because the van's outer shell doesn't breathe. Moisture will get in there and not out, no matter how many vapour barriers you put in. You are always on borrowed time when you put insulation between water proof layers.
That being said, there is a solution we use on low energy and zero energy houses in Sweden. I've designed a few of them and the main problem is how to get moisture out but not loose heat. Usually this is done with a heat recovery ventilation system. These removes moisture from the air but recovers about 90% of the heat. There are units that are designed for as small spaces as 10m2. There are some tricks to putting them in vans (having them run with positive pressure instead of negative) but I think you have enough DIY skills.
In any case, best of luck. Hope to see some van work in the future.
I’m a certified energy auditor. Important to pay attention to the places where unlike materials touch. They are the weakest part of construction. As far as condensation and heat loss are concerned, your weakest places are where you have wood supports touching your metal ceiling.
If possible, remove everything, take your van down to the metal shell, remove rust, seal all nail/screw holes, and insulate ceilings and sides with spray foam. Put 2” closed cell foam on the floor. On the floor foam float the tongue in groove floor of your choice. Leave 1/2” all around the floating floor to accommodate humidity expansion.
If wheel wells are noisy you can cover them with hushmat.
Absolutely nailed it! Great explanation
I am a HUGE fan of closed cell spray foam. We have used it on the floor joist, bays, faces, and cheeks of wood in damp crawl space at our cabin. ABSOLUTELY no transfer of vapor. I will use this in one of our Quigley cutaways that I want to use for 4 season travel. Additonally, combustion air for a wood burner is KEY. Going to design my own with vertically orientated 10"x10" box tube. Fire brick lined, window glass, and combustion air coming from outside wood burner for the vans. It'll be like a sailboat stove ...but less expensive!!. Both our cabin and home are so tight that it'll pull a vacuum when we run wood burners that aren't drawing outside air for combustion. In our home itll draw air thru a basement drain traps. Pretty crazy, but SUPER high efficiency and tight structures (vans too!!) will do wierd things
being too sealed up may have consequences for carbon dioxide and VOC levels especially in a small space
@@corey736 CO2 is not a problem.. CO is.
@@corey736 adequate ventilation is essential in any living structure
Hi Forest! Make it happen. The joy and beauty of your channel is that where your mind thinks, you heart follows. We'd love to see it happen episode by episode. I remember watching every second of the home depot venture when you first got this van. I WILL BE HERE TO WATCH IT AGAIN! (Townhouse or not lol!)
Good luck FF!
thank you!
I concur, yes!!! 😊👍
I think if possible it would be best to go to family and stay while doing a complete renovation. Just remind yourself "it's not forever" just a place to hangout while the much needed work is done. You can also post content of your hometown for us to see. That'd be cool.
Hey FF, These are my ideas (from someone who's lived in a van for years, often in rainy, freeezing places for months on end) I hope they make sense & can be helpful in making your winter vanlife more comfortable! You're welcome to ask for more info/clarification on whatever I put below.
Ceiling: Screw wood directly to metal roof beams (drill sunken holes) attach vapour barrier to the wood / wherever else on the roof, screw tongue & groove into wood blocks in the middle of any sunken holes so there's basically no thermal conductivity between the screws in your heated environment & the cold screws touching the metal of your van. You can try to make the wood blocks the same height as the foam or shorter/longer, whatever works for your specific van. If you want to maximize headroom, you can screw the wood blocks into the side of the roof beams, though will leave less room for vapour barrier etc. If you end up having to screw through the vapour barrier, coat the screw with sealent which will dry and create more of a seal than nothing.
Wiring: To maximize space & save future headaches, use oversized conduit behind the barrier (or through the wooden blocks if you make them longer than the foam, it also gives a slight air gap doing that but less room!) make sure to install pull cords in every conduit so you can add/replace wires down the line.
Windows: This is purely a think-thought of mine, I've never seen anyone try or test this, to me it simply sounds sound! Build a wooden wall (Like most people do i.e. ply, chipboard etc.) cut out window holes (2x the length of the window) for each window & when making the windowsills leave the slit made by cutting the wooden covers uncovered, you can use these wooden covers as sliding window covers, you can attach a lip on the inside of the cover so it doesn't fall into the slit/use as a handle & use some hook/clamping mechanism to keep the wooden covers up, this will provide thermal protection & somewhat of a vapour barrier, you can get some of the same window channel material (felt lined rubber) that your van's windows run in to help create a seal & create a nice shlippery surface for your wooden covers to run in. It's simple (even if I've failed to explain it simply) low maintenance & setup cost... IF you're buying walls anyway. Cherries on top would be, insulated curtians as well.
Dividing wall (Front): If you care about being able to get from the back to the front without going outside, Mispronounced Adventures made a cracking looking sliding door in his van, I don't have a better solution than MA so 'ave it it!
If push comes to shove blast the diesel heater for a few hours, once it gets above 30 degrees C the humidity starts falling off a cliff, you probably want to do that while out for a wee hike, for Rocko's sake as much as your own, some of us like that heat, most don't! xD When you get back open the door, yes you're wasting the heat / money running the heater, but that's well worth not having damp / mould.
Again, feel free to ask for more info on this. I know how difficult these builds are & the consequences of months long cold winter weather so I'm happy to do my bit helping you not have to deal with that!
-MiGly
Loving the window idea 🙂 Lemme guess- UK or Ireland! 👍😂
@@TheLampini Cheers, aye UK!
@@MiGlyShebb I'm living in a canal boat in England - that makes us #dampwarriors! 😊😎
@@TheLampini Nice! I've stayed by a few canals and it looks quite peaceful, I bet there's some lovely stretches of Canal away from any roads. Aye the damp needs to be kept in constant check by dampwarriers! xD
Wood stove should take care of the moisture, maybe a cold air intake that is thermostat controlled would make wood last more efficiently!!! Also your diesel heater can it be converted to petroleum/unleaded fuel ,you can tap into the vehicles fuel tank ! There should be an auxiliary tap on top of tank in fuel sending unit!!! I be careful of spray in foam it may have cancer causing fumes !!!!
We have a cabin near Cranbrook with a full workshop and a bunkhouse on two acres. We’re below mount bill nye and Lakit peak, which you hiked. Let us know if you’d like to do your van renos here.
Heading out to the cabin tomorrow (Wednesday)
@@Rockythevw What's it like living in opulence while people are starving in Gaza?
Simon, my husband is a retired, journeyman, mechanical insulator. We’ve been discussing building out a bus. But the one thing we do know is spray foam is the way to go. If you can manage it, it will save you such a headache later on. Good luck love to Rocco. Will be watching no matter what you build or where you go. ❤
Any particular brand or method? Would those little bottles from Home Depot work? If so, how keep the ceiling flat?
Watch chuck cassidy videos on bus build out (UA-cam). He’s focused on buses but all the principals are the same. His video on insulation is first rate. The cans of foam from HD would cost as much as hiring someone.
@@2nd_of_3 Thanks !
Spray foam outgasses bad fumes. Stay away from it.
Solid advice.
Spray foam. It’s insulating and vapour barrier, sound deadener, all in one! For the amount of work involved, it’s the only way I’d go. Good luck with whatever route you decide….keep on truckin!
yes.
For a amateur, you have done an excellent job Simon. I'm looking forward to the rebuild.
Hey Foresty! Long time viewer, first time commenter. I'm a building scientist from the East coast, and I love you're ideas to cold weather proof the van. CC foam is a smart choice. It has a higher R-value per inch when compared to open cell, and when applied correctly, can also air seal pretty effectively. Being said, installing a vapor barrier to seal in the foam is still a good idea. Think of the insulation as your base layers of clothing. It helps hold/reflect your body heat in to keep you warm. The vapor barrier would be your outside layer, like a wind breaker or ski jacket shell. It cuts the wind down that would otherwise be wicking heat from your base layers. This greatly increases the effectiveness of the base layers.
I do have one suggest with an additional caveat: Adding a 2x2 spacer between the CC foam cavities will lead to excess thermal bridging between your aluminum roof and the 2x2 spacers. In other words, heat will be able to transfer much faster through the spacers, decreasing the effectiveness of the CC foam surround them. Instead, I would get rid of the spacers all together and just fill the gaps with CC foam. In reality, you will still need some of the spacers to be able to install the tongue and groove. Consider reducing the number of spacers you'll need to cut back on thermal bridging. Here's the caveat: Any wire runs in-between your roof assembly that get sprayed with foam are near impossible to get out, make repairs, or add new runs to. Once the foam has cured, nobody is getting to those wires easily.
Absolutely love your channel dude, keep on doing you! Hopefully you were able to gleam something useful from the above suggestions.
I agree with everything said above.....Simply adhere a solid sheet of 2" closed cell rigid foam to your roof using upward force then do the same with the ceiling materials. Also simply run outwards wiring conducts to be able to repair or add something in the future. It can simply be 2" slip-loom...nicely clamped in place, either painted or not. it is what it is extremely functionable. Exactly the same as you van is now.
I have plenty of other thoughts but this is enough for now...
Spray foam is the best choice since it sticks directly to the metal and will not condensate at that point. Don't attempt a vapor barrier in a vehicle it's not worth it and I seriously doubt it's even possible. Get the foam shot by a professional, the mix has to be just right and let it off gas for two weeks before you start reinstalling your gear. Use 3m thinsulate insulation with a spray adhesive around the window frames it antimicrobial and made specifically for vehicles. Your doors and door frames are thermal bridges and will always condensate but thinsulate insulation should help.
Our experience is this: Use 3M Thinsulate Acoustic/Thermal Insulation SM600L. Apply with 3M Hi-Strength 90 CA Spray Adhesive. Cover everything, and get inside ribs. Use Ancor 131325 Triplex Cable, 12/3 AWG, Flat for AC and 121110 Duplex Cable, 10/2 AWG, Flat for DC wiring above ceiling and in walls. We’ve never found a moisture barrier that worked well. So we always vent our space via a modified ceiling MaxxFan, even in our coldest vanlife weather (-15ºC). Hoping for best results with your project.
Good idea, or use foam board
Those foam puzzle piece floor tiles work well too@@jamesrobert782
Restoration carpenter here. There is a book called “keeping the heat in” by natural resource Canada. Has a lot of good info. Your insulation idea is good; and any spot where you have cavity’s you cant get rigid insulation in, try ROCKWOOL brand, or something similar(because it will get rid of the water if it does get wet). And lastly, for your boots, I’d say have a vent for the diesel heater to point at them. Get them dried out in an hour or two( or the electric boot dryers work well) while your cooking supper, so you can vent all the moisture before you close windows and hunker down for the night. Big fan, cheers
Hey Foresty, this is my 1st comment on your channel. I think you should plan to go down to Arizona next winter, rent a place, and take your time to do the job right. Don't give up your summer plans. Those are your best videos. Great idea to upgrade your van for the future.
I can't talk about Condensation, sorry, Rocco, but I can say was so happy to hear you are going to work with your van you have now. I love how piece by piece it was put together to make the perfect amazing set up you have. Everything in its place and so handy. I remember you starting out and you finished up with an amazing build. I like the idea of blocking off the back and having an door to the front. So much cozier in the frigid weather of the winters. Excellent plans!
Agreed. 👍
+1 Simon knows that van inside out now, and better the devil you know!
@@TheLampini Aww, ain't that the truth! 🤣
Professional sprayed two part foam, 2" min over all the metal. Your system may work but I have never made it done that way. New two or three pane windows. Worth the cost. Put the stove at the floor level and pipe in the combustion air. Only the best for Rocco. Bob in Nevada
12 volt dehumidifier (for sailboats, etc) might be worth looking at because you're going to be breathing all the time inside the van. Not sure about insulation though.
I'm just a 77 year old, long time follower who really appreciates your Quigley 4x4 van. Keep thinking insulated curtains for dividing areas when needed and spray on roof insulation gives you more options and overall living space.
This sounds good to me
Keep that van........You may want Fluid Film Rust & Corrosion Protection it saves the frame and sheet metal........Best part is the bolts and threads under there don't get locked with rust. Look it up if you would like.
I glued the pink foam to the ceiling & walls directly using construction adhesive for foamboard, and glued & screwed 1"x4" boards to the ribs to use as mountpoints, and covered all of that up with the normal walls boards, and used spray foam to fill in the gaps. I also used rubberized undercoating on everything before the foamboard to help prevent mold, and all of that seems to work out very well for me.
It's avalanche time in the Rockies, good time to build a van...
The 2” wood will become a thermal bridge and condensation will happen at that wood area. (My thoughts)
The vapour barrier concept is not that a vapour barrier stops condensation. You need a minimum (a lot) of insulation. Imaging just a vapour barrier installed on the bare metal. You’ll have condensation on that vapour barrier(plastic) form. Because the cold plastic will touch the warm air and then create moisture(condensation).
I toured 3 months, full time, in winter on a ski trip trough out the Rockies. In a nice new travel trailer. We didn’t heat too much, had a dehumidifier going when we were inside and the thing basically rotted from the inside out.
I’d say less is more, like you have it , or lots of insulation. And keep in mind, if a place has less insulation and might be prone to condensation, make sure it’s not wood or fibre glass insulation that will sock up and hold moisture. Ridged foam is best.
Good luck with your future plans. All the best.
I love the idea of conduit for wiring as opposed to burying it behind walls/ceiling.
Humidity will happen, but condensation is optional. CC foam only as it cannot absorb or hold humidity. It doesn't need to be thick; anything will be a great improvement over none. Metal is extremely good at conducting heat or cold so metal isolation will be crucial. Consider Tyvek as a breathable but waterproof membrane plus it isolates from the metal. Alternately thin CC foam sheeting is sold as underlayment for floating or laminate plank floors. Also keep weight to a minimum- it adds up faster than you think. Instead of T&G you can get wood paneling with the same pattern- much lighter and the same look. Instead of walls, consider blanket or quilt curtains with magnets to close the gaps. They do more than you think they will and do not permanently change the space like walls do. Cross-flow ventilation, from bottom at one end to top at the other end, is most effective; arrange as you please but be sure the bottom one can be totally sealed to keep the outside outside when traveling. A lot of times there's enough inherent air leakage to just do a top exhaust vent; power it if you prefer. Also remember that there will be condensation on the metal behind the interior surfaces. Most vehicles have plugs underneath in areas that may collect water. Some have 'weep holes' or channels for water to escape, and some don't. If yours are sealed, either drill a small hole in each or use a razor knife to slit them by pushing straight in; 3/4" or 20mm slits should be enough to break the air seal but keep water from entering from the roads and puddles. You also need to arrange ventilation over the cooking area. An insulated small area is a cinch to heat; lose the insulation and it can take 5X the BTU's to get the same effect.
I was here when you bought this van and watched you build it out in them parking lots, in the winter, in CANADA...! It was very impressive - I design and build things for a living and wish I could help you out even though I know you don't really need it. I'm looking forward to this upcoming "story line"
I made wood "ribs" like wide flat upside down "T's" that I screwed directly to the metal structures that support the roof and floated aromatic cedar panels I milled and glued up between them. The ribs support the panels so no screws in the panels themselves. I used rivnuts to secure everything I built in my van.
Good luck!
I will watch whatever you do. Having said that, I like the idea of wiring that is external in a conduit. Having been a factory trained wiring technician for a GMC dealer, I like the idea of ease of servicing the wiring. I also really like your choice of van. it's very capable, and there are still things you can repair without constantly taking it to a professional. All the best to everyone.
Probably a good Idea that Moresty hosts the insulation debate 😅
They say a nice uniform layer of spray foam is good and acts as its own vapor barrier, but it is a pia to apply and can be expensive. Could be hard to frame over and screw your cedar to.
The initial plan for my van was straight spray foam but ended up going with 3/4" foam board between the supports, then spray foamed the channels between, and then foil taped the seams. Ceiling panels are screwed into the supports which are insulated from the roof from the factory, by a line of spray foam.
I think keeping a bit of ventilation is the key because the moisture has to go somewhere, a lot of Europeans seem to put in permanent floor vents at strategic places.
For prolonged extreme cold I want to install a second diesel heater at the back of my van, possibly a 2kw to save space and have a better heating range. Probably a good idea to have 2 anyway😅
Shrinking the heated space works and is a good move, I'm just using blankets now but a garage/cab walls would be the ideal situation and open up some storage.
I would worry about vibration causing the glue to fail over time. A house is one thing but a van experiences a lot of movement during its life. Good luck, I'm sure you viewers will have some good suggestions.
I was thinking the same thing. Maybe spray foam would have the adhesion needed to keep the ceiling up while driving around.
I build all sort of unique and crazy things for a living. The modern adhesives are completely amazing. I used Titebond Premium Platinum $14-16 a caulk tube to hold down stainless (warped) to wood structure on reclaimed tables to be rolled and rough handled in a convention center of 10 acres under roof. . NOT one issue. It was a CRAZY clamping job, but I got the warps pulled down and DAMN it is still holding. Worth every penny.
put a topper on your van, being able to stand up is a game changer
Yeah it is, I took mine on its first 6000 mile road trip and put a hi top on as soon as I got home.
while I agree that standing up is important, the way FF uses the van, the low roof and stiffness a full metal roof provides over a topper is probably more important.
Another UA-camr is currently having major leak problems with the high top she had installed. With all the bouncing movement Simon’s van goes through I’m not sure any seal would hold up.
@@DanitaReynolds Depends on what it is and who did it. Mine has been up the Alcan, out to Kennecott, Nabesna, and done the Copper River Hwy twice in the last 2 years. Up to the top of the Eel river etc. And it rains a LOT where I live. No leaks yet. fingers crossed.
I have disassembled several high topper vans. The key is to weld on a sub frame once you get to hole cut out. ALL of the ones I took apart were ambo/wheel chair "crash survivable" people movers. That frame holds fiberglass in place and keeps seals in tact. The tenacity of the high-end sealants is AMAZING. I literally lifted a whole back of a 2011 e350 ambo by the seal holding the roof on, it was quite enlightening. The other advantage, if done tight to roof underside it enables you to walk ALL over the roof without wind drag of additonal framing on the OUTSIDE of the van. That is CRITICAL for me as historically we spend many nights on the roof under the stars, and is our preferred way to camp if weather/bugs permit.
Seems like a good plan Foresty....finding the right adhesive is always the hard part. I worked in hardware stores for 10 years and I would always recommend contacting the companies that make the products you are thinking of using, they want to help in most cases and are experts in their niche field. Definitely try to find a way to keep the wiring accessible, after my stint in the hardware industry I worked in the marine industry as well.....its amazing how far moisture can travel up a wire and cause mayhem that can be very hard to isolate. Thanks and best of luck to You and Rocko.
I always keep all the windows cracked just a little when I'm sleeping in the vehicle, regardless of temps. That's why I want those little window visors so precip doesn't get in. I wonder why your wood stove isn't more than warm enough already, you see Lost Lakes camping in -35 with his hot tent all the time. It should be helping more with your condensation issue but it won't work if all the airflow in the vehicle is closed off that's for sure. To prevent condensation requires not only a heat source but also a cold air intake - the cold air is drier than the air inside the vehicle and when you warm it up its moisture capacity increases, it picks up moisture, and then you have to let that hot air out too. Without good cold air intake and hot air exhaust, you'll never stop the condensation. A hot tent is dry because it is made of permeable canvas.
Good luck on the new insulation project. I’m sure you’ll figure it out, & make it work! God Speed! 👍🏿
Happy April Fools Day, Foresty Forest! 🃏🃏🃏
Last year, a little birdie told me that Foresty was going to accept a new job with Canadian Geographic.
Now I am reading that his old phone was found on Mt. Delphine and is being revived AND he has purchased a brand new, very expensive, luxury camper van from Italy.
Don't know what to believe, so just like last year, I will have to wait and see what comes to pass. 🃏🃏🃏🃏🃏🃏🃏🃏🃏🃏
P.S. If the new camper van part is not a joke........
Congratulations!
I like that sunset picture with river view.
You should definitely keep this van. What's the point of paying for a nice new van when it won't stay nice long. Riding in those tight trails puts scratches in the paint, not to mention all the dents you'll put in it.
If you change the oil frequently (every 5k miles) and the transmission oil every 100k (miles), it will last hundreds of thousands of miles. Given you do a lot of miles in a short period of time, age will not be ruining the suspension and exhaust.
But given the weight you carry and frequent non-paved roads you drive on, you should probably do a full inspection of the suspension parts including all the rubber.
❤😂❤ okay Simon I am headed outside to the van to pull the humidity gauge out from behind the wall between the foam board that has foil facing facing out to the skin wall of the van and then the foil wrapped bubble insulation. This morning it was at 30% I'm going to go check it now in the afternoon in various places because like I said we did not tack it down even though it looks like a spaceship😮😮❤😮 it is only taped and strategic places from the wall standpoint the ceiling is already done but the walls the bubble wrap insulation is basically just hanging there in sections taped along the different struts😮 I'll come back this afternoon to let you know what the humidity levels are now and then I will check them again later on tonight😮 Simon I live in an environment almost identical to yours and I have waited all winter to complete this job because I was concerned about the moisture and the condensation that was collecting while I was in the van so I was very careful about what I would do I would measure out the foam board but I wouldn't put it up cuz the walls were damp😮😮 I spent $73,000 on this girl and I want to make sure that the woman that inherits it doesn't have a nightmare on her hands😂😂😂 stay tuned folks the experiments continue
Okay at 4:00 in the afternoon with the sun shining on the other side of the van the moisture on both sides under the bubble wrap in between was down to 20%😮 the temperatures are cooling off and we actually have snow coming in a couple of days😮
Looking through the other comments, I noticed that no one has mentioned Havelock Wool. We are currently building out our Promaster van, and after A LOT of reading and UA-cam videos, we have decided on Havelock Wool. It is a little bit pricey, you don’t need a vapor barrier, it is not toxic, it breathes, has a good R value and saves time for the installation. We also have used Rivnuts to fasten our ceiling support wood , after stuffing the wool into the ceiling ribs, without having to screw more holes in the van. We bought the Rivnut kit at Harbor Freight, but you can also ordered them online.
i might look into some kind of polyurethane spray insulation. i don't know anything about it, just brainstorming.
we love Rocco so much. Special little girl there.
There's a lot of indirect light coming from the rear and front windows. You might miss that if you put up front and rear walls. Love that shot set-up catching a side of the art glass. Surprised it still hanging in there.
I just love your videos so much man. even if it is you just talking about condensation and doing back of the napkin insulation diagrams, I still find it very therapeutic and healing. Thank you my friend.
Yeah, I was a little worried about the twin brother, good to know he's doing alright. And its nice of him to help out in the insulation build, that will give brother Foresty time to video his hiking/climbing. Sounds good and take care !!
I’m about to do my third round of vehicle dwelling. I do no build setups typically, but I think this time I’m gonna build an actual bed. You’re on the other end of the spectrum, it just blows my mind how intense you get with building your vehicle out. Props, but not my style. 🙂👍
The insulation plan seems pretty spot on to me 👍
That really surprises me the wood burner didn’t help . My old trailer had gas heating and had the worst condensation and moisture problem to the point the walls started bowing . I then put in my wood burner and it cured everything. It’s seemed to me that it was just a different type of heat it pumped out which stopped even the condensation on my window.
That was many years ago and made a wood burner my go to heat source in all my vehicles from the on . Had a kitchen AGA in my American school bus which is all windows and that was dry as a bone .
Sound like great ideas! Those videos of you building out the van in the parking lot were great!
Hey Simon, can not blame you for wanting to keep and reno your van esspecially since you have maintained it . sounds like a great plan you have , Look forward to seeing the reno .
And now, it's the time for Foresty to collect build-tips from his army! :) que the music!
Your van layout is one of my favorites and you seem happy with it and so does Rocko (love when she hangs out by the wood stove during snow days.) The improvements to make it better insulated/closed in make sense. Of course, I keep my cars till they’re falling apart and my furniture stays put once I get it the way I like it, so I’m biased.
I agree!
Hi F F. Always run wiring where it is easiest to access . Having done more than my share to van travel I know there are many gremlins waiting to cause havoc.. You would be amazed how wiring can cause a lot of issues. Having access to all your wiring is so important. So easy to add accessories or remove or replace them. My van was the same as yours. Bare from the factory I was able to handle most issues that pop up. And your mechanic will also be very happy from time to time. Safe travels. ✌️🤓
If you keep the van have you considered picking up a used conversion van hightop roof, Would have to cut the roof but an extra 8-12” of headroom/ vertical storage could add a lot of comfort
Hey Foresty! Take your time and make it happen! We can definitely wait a while before new content pops up. Especially if it will increase your overall well-being in the van! :D I can recommend watching "greg virgoe" when it comes to insulation since he's an engineer and professional doing things like heat-loss calculations for commercial buildings. He has some pretty great videos on how these things work... that way you can make good and informed decisions on insulation based on science
By the way, regarding adhesive... I'm just kind of worried that the rubber mat will give up due to things like extreme heat from the roof and the weight of the wood ceiling. Wouldn't it be possible to support the beams through the kitchen construction and perhaps (oh man, this is gonna get really hard to explain without drawing) build a bedframe like Ikea's KURA. That way you will have support from the floor on both the kitchen and bed side. :) Just an idea, but you have likely done far more research than me. So you do you in the end. :D
I’m late to this party, but I’d suggest you watch a few of the sailing channels. Sailing Florence is currently winterizing. Some things I’ve noticed is the use of headliner panels rather than tongue and grove. Will help to keep the weight down and maximize your headroom.
When everyone else is buying property to carve out a shelter and commit to staying put...you are still choosing to go HARDCORE!! ROCK ON!!🏕
You could also rent a Storage Unit if they would let you work on it there to save money, that’s what I was able to do with my Van.
You can build a winter only dehumidifier by running a duct loop that forces cold outside air through a metal condensator inside the vehicle and then back outside. Put a fan on or near the condensator to pass humid air over the cold surface. At no point should outside air be entering the vehicle. The only powered components are low draw dc computer fans. Copper heat exchangers and smaller vehicle radiators make for good condensators.
This will only function effectively if they outside temperature is significantly colder than the inside temperature, but those are usually the times when humidity is the biggest concern so it works out.
In an enclosed environment, moisture comes from the human body, and prevention of mold and rust can be done with air flow via fans, but also pulling some air from the outside and pushing some air out. Pulling in a small amount of cold air will increased heat cost a little bit but is the price we pay for reduced moisture. Some people simply don't use fans when sleeping but air out the whole cabin when they wake. It's good to have some space for blown air to reach potential traps of moisture.
A couple in a small RV traveling Finland this past winter had vents. These vents were installed by the manufacturer in a couple places the floor and are always open. Hot air will not escape downwards but some air flow is allowed.
How about spray foam insulation? We did it at our lake house in the ADK’s hunting camp to year round residence..old 2x4 construction and it was tightly sealed..-24 F with a propane heater. Fast installation no moisture issues..it’s also cuts the outside noise.
Man your are my favorite youtuber to listen to talk about things and its funny to me you are self conscious about talking to your camera by yourself or around others, because you definitely do a great job at just talking and being an easy to listen to person. So i appreciate that just so you know my man 🤘
don't let the van go Foresty, I like it 👍 that dog is sooo funny 🤣
Loctite PL Max Premium is the strongest construction adhesive that I know of. I'ved used it when hanging ceiling drywall. An HVAC contractor ran a supply duct in an area where a full sheet terminated. Used the PL stuff and it held a 2 x 8 sheet of 1/2" drywall on the face of the duct no problem. We were able to use drywall screws along the wall seam but the rest of the sheet was held up by the adhesive. 20 min adjustment time but still grabbed immediately and held it up. The unknown is the jostling that you are going to experience. That house we hung it in stays pretty still :)
Foresty I am currently planning my next build for my E350 and have an idea for you. I have decided to learn how to sew like you do. It is your *superpower* and I want to learn how to do it too. I'm planning to insulate with quilted, polyfill blankets similar to parka material. The blankets will be custom tailored for each wall panel/window, ceiling section. The blankets will be fitted with small sewn in neodymium magnets around their perimeter that will stick to metal mounting points around the frames they are meant to cover. The blankets can easily be quickly removed or put up as needed. If they absorb too much moisture they can be set out to dry or taken to the laundromat for washing or drying {remember they are synthetic polyfill material, not down}. I may also add a layer of aluminized fabric or maybe that silvery bubble wrap insulation material {that's very lightweight and only a few millimeters in thickness}. The reflective material faces inward and really works at reflecting radiative heat back to you. And underneath the polyfill material will literally serve as a big insulative blanket for the entire interior.
Best part is it's fairly cheap, very lightweight and comparatively easy to achieve in a way that you could get done before peak season. Also, the moisture management should be pretty good as long as you don't hole up too long in a wintry setting and have the opportunity to let the blanket system air out from time to time. You could make it permeable/breathable nylon or waterproof...or maybe thinsulate? Thinsulate has the ability to let water vapor pass through, but not liquid water.
You'd also have the benefit of being able to remove the blankets from the windows easily when you want, retaining viewability when you want it back.
Anyway, thought I'd throw that out there. If anyone could execute the blanket system successfully, you could. Plus, you should have all the tools you need to get it done with you already. Good luck whatever you do! 👍
GREAT outside the box thinking. The other thing perhaps you didn't realize is , is if the material is at least a little absorbent its acting like a buffer to absorb vapor during the night and then release during the day. I have designed my root cellar like this with cement board. Root cellars NEED moisture, NOT dripping, but dampness and in the underground setting it never dries, but hold and radiates as needed
@@reidcrosby6241 Thanks, yes I suppose it could serve as a moisture wick and release system. Similar to how adobe walls work in the desert. They absorb the desert heat all day and then at night when it's cold, they slowly radiate the heat back inside the house. Main thing is I'd like to be able to easily and quickly remove or partially vent the blankets to release any trapped moisture under them or in them when it's convenient. I just need to get a sewing machine, learn how to use it [as Foresty does] and then get started experimenting.
As an old bodyman and former shop owner i'll tell you this.... adhesives will fail in the cold with vibration, so will butyl tapes, even more so. At the end of the day it's a van and I would look more as to how they spray insulate sea cans for the roof and walls. I used to tell my clients in cold temperatures one of the best ways to eliminate moisture from a vehicle was to crack the window 3/4" and let the natural vacuum suck the moisture out. Speaking to you from northern Manitoba so i know a thing or two about cold. good luck.
The interesting thing about insulating a van compared to a house is that in a house, the outer surface is vapor-permeable (wood cladding). In a van, the outer surface is sheet metal, meaning it is 100% impermeable. This has made me suspect of a lot of advice I've seen from home builders. I think if you're going to do a vapor barrier it's best if it is adhered directly to the metal, such as spray-foam or flexible closed-cell foam with adhesive backing and foil coating (see this a lot on british builds, it seems - they have wet weather but not very cold weather). Since the entire structure is adhered directly to the van and every layer is vapor proof (closed cell foam is its own vapor barrier, a foil backing just makes it 100%), then there is no cavity for moisture to get into and hang around.
I am not sure what is the best solution and there are many methods that seem to "work" well enough... as for longevity, I don't think anyone has data to make verifiable claims.
that's my thinking so far. not an expert just someone else currently considering options. I think most of the spray-foam builds I've seen are from very cold climates - norway, AK, CA, etc so there might be something to that.
My understanding is that spray foam can potentially warp the metal panels as it adheres and expands. You probably don't care much as it's already dinged up. To avoid this it must be applied in very even, very thin layers that even professionals sometimes mess up. It's fine for a BUS because there aren't huge pieces of sheet metal to warp, and skoolies care a lot less about the looks. But it has the best R-value per unit of THICKNESS by a good margin which is what we care about in a van - maximizing internal volume. Also, spray foam is super permanent, it's never coming out. And with all the windows in your van you may not care about completely maximizing the insulation as it will have diminishing returns with so much glass.
Another quick comment, years ago I ran a home repair business out of a cargo van. Having an insulated curtain between the cabin and the back of the van made a huge difference during cold New England winters and it helped keep condensation from the heater off my tools. Mike from MASS.
I like the winter, Arizona rental/ build idea! 👍😎🇨🇦🔥🐾
I like the town house idea for doing the remodel on the van. You and Rocko could use some pampering.
You have two channels! Subscribed to this one as well.
Not only can Rocco drive, she knows sarcasm as well. I believe that foam board or spray foam does not require an additional vapor barrier. Any gaps in the foam board can be filled with cans of expanding foam,and I believe the canned foam can also be used to adhere the foam board to the ceiling. Mike from MASS.
Thinking outside of the box here. I would find an old raised roof van and salvage the fiberglass top. Preferably the mid rise, then place a minimum of 2” of foam on the outside surface of the van roof. This of course would be a false raised roof but it would allow complete uninterrupted insulation which would create no thermal bridging and a possible bonus would be some storage up there. Then I would look into spraying foam underneath the van as well. Thus minimizing any headroom loss inside an already small area.
Continuing in this vein you could fabricate exterior insulated shutters for the windows. I’m thinking aluminum treadplate with foam on hinges. This would provide an awning in the summer as well.
If I were you, for starters I’d remove the back two windows, at least, cover them with sheet metal, insulate and cover with 1/4” plywood. The less glass the better. I also think if you rip everything out to the ribs, the best solution is spray insulation. If I did another build I’d do that instead. Definitely go where you have help when needed, someone to bounce ideas off and a warm, dry place to sleep/eat. I’d be happy to help if I didn’t live on the opposite side of the states. I agree with keeping the devil you know too, rather than buying something newer.
Removing the rear windows would also make the bike less tempting to thieves.
There are air-to-air heat exchangers for RVs that run on 12V. They bring in fresh air from outside for ventilation through a heat-exchanger that keeps more heat in the interior. I've also heard them called fresh air recuperators.
I think any insulation is going to make a big difference. No taping and sealing. No spray foam. Nothing that makes a mess or makes a P.I.T.A in the future. Just put a layer of 3M Thinsulate blanket and affix your wood panels through it like they are now to the van structure. For the windows, make some "Owens Corning FOAMULAR 1/2 in Rigid Foam Board Insulation" inserts and black one side and white/design/silver the other side (interior). They are wicked good insulators and you can stash them on the not so cold days. They also make for good SUMMER insulation to keep cool with the silver facing out. The 3M Thinsulate breaths well and works well. It also compresses well for use as curtains and dividers. Windows are probably your biggest source of heat loss due to both the infra-red loss and conductive. Good luck and can't wait to see what you come up with!
I was watching your skiing video and you mentioned putting off the rebuild. It hit me that you could insulate the van without taking it apart using two part epoxy expanding foam. Unlike spray foam two part epoxy foam reacts and expands in an air free environment, where spray foam requires air to react. Epoxy foam is used in boats, planes and racing cars as along with insulating properties its structural, meaning it adds stiffness to whatever you fill. Anyway, it reacts at a ratio of around 30:1 so you have to be careful but you could mix batches and inject it into your walls, your nooks and crannies. This is very similar to the foam that is used to spray onto the inside of roofs/buildings for insulation. Just a wild n crazy idea for you. I use the stuff to make form fitted seats for racing drivers and to fill aluminum box like crushable structures on race cars that protect the driver in an impact.
Hey there!!! My wife and I also have condensation issues and we found that a 12 V DC Dehumidifier helps quite a bit! With windows closed in sun zero temps, it pulls about 1/3 cup water throughout the night. We have the grizzly cubic mini and thought it would help, but doesn’t. Building a garage and boxing off the front cab is a fantastic idea. We built an insulated garage and with that we can carry a chainsaw and never smell fumes. Great video !!
Ill just drop this lil facto for your future reno. "Marine grade" look into marine grade building materials and Havelock Wool for insulating. Instead of tongue and grove porous wood, i would suggest "PVC wall panelling" like "Trusscore".
Good approach to insulating the roof. The tricky part seems to be gluing the 2 x 2's in there securely enough to attach the ceiling to?
I know you don't want to puncture the vapour barrier at all, but in houses it gets stapled to the studs, which seems to work OK .
You could possibly screw the 2x2's directly to the metal ceiling, the bottoms flush with the rigid insulation, and run the vapour barrier smoothly under both materials. To minimize puncturing the vapour barrier you could then run thin cross pieces at right angles to the 2x2's, maybe every 3 feet, and then attach the ceiling to them at right angles.
You could put globs of sealant on the cross pieces before you screw them into the 2x2's, to make a tighter seal.
It would lower the ceiling a bit I guess. Just a thought, if it turns out you can't get the 2x2's glued in securely enough.
Good luck!
I live alone in a Minnesota small town in a 4 bedroom, 2 bath house and a 2.5 stall garage, you could stay here for free and work on whatever you wanted for as long as you wanted. Multiple stores nearby for supplies.
Jay5 custom van, friend of Chrome. Glad, you're keeping your van like he did. Love vids
Your vapor barrier plan makes good sense, I also always wonder when I see someone screw into the barrier why would they do that, especially with so many really good adhesives available now days. I am one of those people that likes to solve a problem on paper before jumping into it, I'm not good once I jump but the plans are always well thought out! Be well and be safe!
Seems to me that using rubber membrane in concert with vapor barrier as is done with window installation in cold climate home construction might be part of the calculus.
Sounds like you have it figured out. Whatever route you take, we'll be along for the ride because anything that keeps the channel going and creating great content, I'm all in! 👍👌💪
Just an idea with the roof. What if you put supports spanning across from either side of the walls to support the ceiling and those supports would be anchored to the walls. Then the only material you would only need to glue is the insulation. You’re definitely on the right track with adding an insulated walls to the front and back. I would also suggest window coverings maybe made out of that reflective material. Look forward to watching the build. Good luck 🤞
Had a dog like that before, they are very smart and great company.
You are crazy smart and resourceful. An HRV is embarrassingly simple. A couple blowers and alternating layers of coroplast that let the heat pass from the exhaust air to the fresh air - add a drip tray to catch the resulting moisture from the cooling humid exhaust air. Build your rear insulating / dividing wall out of 6-8 layers of 1/4" coloplast.
What does HRV stand for?
@@petrushka1611 Heat Recovery Ventilator. A device that exhausts stale, warm, humid air and draws in fresh, cool, dry air. The 2 airstreams flow past each other in a passive heat exchanger so that some of the precious heat you created inside the home is transferred to the cool incoming air reducing your heating costs.
Mandatory in pretty much all new home construction in Canada. Used to cost effectively reduce humidity in winter.
I would go with the rear wall and possible a thermal curtain up front. Cheap and easy. Then you could decide if you wanted a permanent front wall. I plan on going with a thermal curtain for the front of my build. I like the idea of being able to use the cab area for space when needed. Possible store wet boots in the cab on other side of thermal curtain.
Close cell spray foam is also a great adhesive. Silicone your screws, no worries about holes if you use stainless fasteners
My van is electric. I got a de-humidifier that keeps relative humidity below condensation point. Although there are plenty of cold-bridges etc. Air is just to dry to condensate. Don't go dryer than needed, as your breathing becomes dry. I don't need to go lower than 60% rel. Problem fixed, no foggy windows neither. Heating smallest area possible is key.
I was here since your fat bike trip. Support you. Love from Taiwan.
Your dreams sound good...just keep on dreaming!! You've got the talent and experience!!
Condensation can be reduced by running a fan and having air movement in the cabin. Even i extreme cold open a window a crack to bring down the humidity level. Even just for a short period of time a few times a day will help.
You know best, but I’ll say this. You have a great project going with your channel, don’t be to afraid to invest in it.
You have plenty of support here amongst your followers that are more than willing to contribute. You bring so much joy and value to those of us that follow you.
The van is great, it’s done well. I’m sure you aren’t concerned about luxury, but im concerned that toy might be downplaying comfort.
I say go big!! Think of your dream build! What would be the ultimate van 3.0?
I know you have been thinking about a tacoma? Do that! Take it to the max! Why not?
You can work on your van upgrades by wintering over in Arizona, starting in November of 2024 !! I hope to see you there !!
IMO as somebody who renovates and am a Canadian Engineer let me give you an alternative idea. You can seal off like you are referring to, or you can create a breathable insulation space. A breathable insulation space is one where the insulation has capillary abilities. Meaning it has the ability to transmit humidity, but at a reduced speed. You can seal your car, but then you run the problem that any moisture that is caught will cause rust. Let me illustrate. You are going up and down the mountains right? Imagine creating a sealed space that has trapped air. Going up and down will automatically cause an expansion and contraction your entire wood, vapour barrier and so on. This is why when you have dual pane window it must be altitude rated.
By having a breathable insulated space any air that is caught will leak, and no vacuums will be created. Breathable insulated space means using natural insulation. That can be wood fiber, wool or cannabis (not the illegal stuff). Then you put on a breathable vapour barrier where the SD < 5 or just a thin layer of tongue and groove OSB (9mm). On top of that you put your wood siding. In this configuration you will be kept toasty warm, and yet breathable. It is absolutely CRITICAL that you only use natural materials that can breath. You CANNOT use air tight paint. You must use a stain. You cannot put vinyl or plastic on top as the area must always be allowed to breath. Slowly breath of course, but breathe.
Rocko has heard this convo before😂 funny
I'm really surprised woodstove didnt help.
I used to live in a shipping container...metal SWEATS!! When we painted the interior, that made it rain inside!
Only thing that helped was when we added a layer of plastic on top of roof (raised off the roof a little)
That probably doesnt help but.. its a tough problem...good luck.
Glad youre keeping your van..theres no such thing as perfect...yours is pretty close for you!
Unless your wood is extremely dry, burning it releases a surprising amount of water.
Pull everything out, strap the inside and sprayfoam the inside. screw the interior to the strapping. Like @kati-ana said earlier, come home and do the renos. Your mom and Dad have a great garage and it would be great to meet you.
And that would give him some time to spend with his family, too. I am sure that they would love to have him there for a visit.
Renovation seems like a fantastic idea. Looking forward to the content!
A compact, rapid dehumidifier is the answer. After running 6 hrs a day for 3 days then once a week thereafter. You will be amazed how much moisture is recovered plus it eradicates mould
Nope, the nails into the 2X2 will migrate cold and heat and cause condensation in the ceiling. You need to use spray foam as it will seal and is a powerful adhesive. Then you can apply (glue) nice paneling for your finished ceiling, thus saving valuable headroom.
Closed cell insulation is a vapour barrier. If you are super concerned about vapour. Use furring strips to isolate the VB. Insulting things with foam is good if you can keep it tight. Spray foam will be a helpful tool
The problem with vehicles, and campers like airstreams is the thermal bridging. Like around the windows. Sure we had storm windows to install inside but the window frames themselves would always have ice on them. Condensation meets freezing surface... The thermal bridge is a piece of metal that's outside that also continues to inside the vehicle. Which for most vehicles is every square inch of the vehicle body.
It's nice to hear real issues and things like the wood stove that didn't work for drying out the van but is still sold as a great source of dry heat to remove condensation.
Maybe have a video once in as while sharing what doesn't work. Maybe make it a tech series so we can quickly reference them all in the future.
Great content, brother!