Great video - thanks for sharing your passion for Eltham's iconic railway trestle bridge. At time stamp 03:20 you mention that the bridge is in fact not all wooden construction and that there are some steel girders and supports added to replace older timber beams. In fact, the original bridge was manufactured with steel girder supports, the capability for producing such was not available in Australia at the time and these were procured from Miliken Brothers Civil Engineers and Contractors in iron and steel construction, 11 Broadway, New York, USA. It was reported in the Heidelberg News on August 19, 1901 that 16 rolled steel beams (40, 743 lbs weight - 18,520kg) for the Diamond Creek Bridge had arrived in Melbourne from New York aboard the steamship MIMRO (ordered February 25, 1901)
As a railroad bridge engineer I always appreciate videos such as this, and your efforts are excellent in this case Taitset. I will offer a few “educated” guesses on two questions brought up. First, the lettering on the steel girder: it may state when and where the beams were painted, “Painted St. Kildare”. Second, the welded rail was likely omitted to reduce the longitudinal forces on the structure. The force from differential heat expansion on rail can be substantial, and the timber piers can only offer limited resistance to longitudinal load without lots of additional (and unsightly) bracing.
One last thing, the horizontal timbers at the top of the piers are typically call caps here in the States, but I believe they are called headers in Victoria.
I used to regularly sleep on the Frankston line, no wobbly trestle bridge, but you soon get to remember the feel of going through various sections, like the ex-level crossing into Frankston, or the slow crawl through the yards into Flinders street, so 99% of the time I woke when needed. Although one night I remember waking at kananook (one stop from the end) and getting into a panic as I realised the train was going in the wrong direction!, I had slept right through pulling into Frankston and was about to return to the city..... Or the other time when a briefcase got whacked into my knee, I jumped up in pain and got off - no sure why, I had one more stop to go... Brain fade?, well I was all but asleep at the time.
Thanks. While not a train geek, I am very fond of this local landmark. Had some of my wedding photos here on fact although long divorced. Love riding past on the way up to Diamond Creek
When I was a kid, and staying with my cousins in Eltham, we used to play a lot in this area. I remember the dare was to make it across the bridge before a train came along. Been years since I took the time to have a look. Good memories.
My cousins were a railway family. Uncle Ken designed most signals etc for VR. So therefore my cousins knew the system well. We got caught halfway one time but simply waited for the train to pass upon the small maintainance platforms on the side of the bridge. Jeez you get an ass booting nowdays.... I remember we quite daringly laid 3 rolls of caps on the rail there....yes the train stopped.... Uncle Ken must have gotten word of this and gently let us know he'd skin us all if it happened again... For a country kid, this was an adventure of grand proportion. Great great memories.
Great video! My grandfather was the stationmaster at Eltham from about 1961-1981 when he retired. Growing up in Monty meant I didn’t often go over this bridge, but I do think it’s important that it still exists. It is a landmark for sure, a little bit of the old Eltham. Fantastic channel, thanks for your hard work, research and knowledge.
As a kid who used to live in Diamond Creek in the 60's, I have gone over this trestle bridge in trains many times. I'm so glad it survives to this day.
Congratulations, Martin, on this brief but very well put together video on Eltham's rail trestle. It's one of the many features along the Hurstbridge line that make it such a great excursion for visitors to Melbourne that are looking for something away from the tourist traps to do for several hours on a rest day. Whenever I converse with International visitors that are looking for such a diversion, I point out the Hurstbridge train services to them and describe how the rail corridor covers the many layers of suburbia and the semi-rural atmosphere beyond Greensborough. Hopefully your presentation reaches many of our future visitors as well as those who have been here but didn't know about the Eltham rail trestle. Great work and hope to bump into you again somewhere along the line (possibly Sunday with the Tait Set running to the Eaglemont Village Fair). Cheers from Michael😀
I’ve allways been interested in trestle bridges. And I’ve allways loved the Eltham trestle Should also note there was also another trestle bridge on the network all be it the v/line network at the Avon river bridge which was part trestle which was recently replaced by a new bridge
A rare wooden one close to the city was branching of the line between South Kensington and Footscray to serve the Angliss meatworks siding. Gone by the seventies. I think it's main use was at night so rare to see anything in it. Rare to be photographed. May have snuck into Weston Langford photos by accident.
When floods recede having the wide open bridge actively helps the water flow away. Embankments force the water through the bridge section unless they have regular culverts
Yes, channelisation is good for running cargo vessels up and down rivers BUT bad for watershed management. It also tends to create far worse flooding than would otherwise occur.
It's always bewildered me seeing this bridge and how it survives, but the Hurstbridge Line near the end has always been a bit weird. One memory of Black Saturday was seeing all the trestle bridges in the Yarra Glen area completely disappear. Also when did you get a Comeng on the Hurstbridge Line? That's one heck of a rare sight these days.
I don't live anywhere near Eltham but over many years I've driven to this very place with all my dogs for walks and to just enjoy the area. Looking at the drone footage I can tell where exactly where I have sat with each of my dogs and enjoyed a lunch on a sunny day. I'm glad the bridge is still there and now I know why. Well presented.
In your commentary you had the answer as to why the rails are not welded. Flex and also expansion. Beaut video, I have lived in Melbourne all my life and that is a long time now . It shows that there is always some thing to be learnt. learned about a bridge that I did not know existed until this video.
Thank you for a great presentation. I have to confess I travelled over the bridge years ago and did not know it was there. I do remember the Puffing Billy bridge..
Great video once again. I've been enjoying checking out your back catalogue. Growing up in Eltham in the 80s and 90s, I hated the love this bridge received. Having no access to a car and being stuck way out in the suburbs, I had to rely on a single line going in and out of Eltham, whose trains were made to slow to a crawl, all to preserve this annoying anachronism. Being slightly older, I can now perhaps better appreciate some of the charm of the bridge; but watching this video did bring back some painful memories of 40min waits for a train out to Eltham on a Sunday and waving goodbye to friends who lived just two stations closer in Greensy catching an earlier one, all so some hack artists out at Montsalvat, who didn't even use public transport, could enjoy the clickety clack sounds of yesteryear! (Deep breath). At least that's how it felt to edgy teenage me at the time sitting on a cold train platform with only people watching to keep me occupied. These days, I do find the back and forth rocking of the train over the bridge quite pleasant but I do feel for anyone who relies on this single line service for their only way in and out of Eltham
Glad you've been enjoying the videos! While the bridge (and single track sections in general) do place a limit on the maximum possible frequency, they don't actually contribute to the 40/60 minute waits that still happen at certain times on the line today. Ever since Macleod-Greensborough was duplicated in 1977, it's been physically possible to run a 20 minute frequency to Eltham (and even Hurstbridge) at all times. Since the 2023 duplication to Montmorency, it's now possible to run a 10 minute frequency to Eltham, and 20 to Hurstbridge, and this does happen for short periods during the peak hours. Anything less than that in the off-peak isn't an infrastructure limitation, just a political one.
@@Taitset I guess I figured that with two lines running out to Eltham, there'd be no reason to have trains halt at Greensborough and that Eltham, being only two stops further, would become the default, but I really don't know how accurate this thinking was. I now live near Footscray and am rather spoiled for choice for trains out of the city but do occasionally have reason to jump on the Hurstbridge line from time to time and am happy to say my views on the Trestle Bridge have somewhat softened. I do however lament the loss of a landmark site between Rosanna and Heidelberg station. There used to be a small park on the left side while heading city bound with a couple of mounds, each capped with a singular wooden bollard at their centers, which always made me giggle well past the age at which I should have stopped. Honestly I was amazed it was allowed to exist for as long as it did but I will miss T. Tee's Mounds. Anyway, thanks again for the quality videos and looking forward to hearing more about the network. Fantastic stuff.
@@barrypuccini6142 I know the mounds you speak of! I never thought twice about them until somebody in high school pointed out how funny they were. Certainly a tragic loss.
Very, very interesting, and probably worth a trip from ACT to view. I've seen a few remains of timber trestle bridges in the rural areas to the north of Melbourne so this bridge is special. Thanks for posting.
I remember going over the trestle Bridge in the single carriage Tait train in the late 70s, and also walking from Macleod to Diamond Creek because there was a train strike in the middle of summer lol
From memory, the single-car Tait normally only operated on the shuttle between Eltham and Hurstbridge, so wouldn't have gone over the trestle. Of course there could be occasions that it did for some special reason. (It would have been attached to other carriages when running to/from the city.)
I made friends with Eltham people a couple of years after moving to Melbourne from Ballarat and rode this train on man an occasion. Eltham people are the best people.
You nailed the reason for it's continued use in that the community is very artistic focused. I like it, regardless of the swaying and ride feel. Duplicating it will be a nightmare when the time comes just from the environmental concerns alone, I know whole chunks of current HLUP project had to get de-scoped during initial design due to (of all things) the native butterfly population between Monty and Eltham.
It was only a short section of the HULP that had to be changed, the bit through the cutting at the down end of Montmorency. The Eltham Copper Butterfly is classified as Endangered, so once it had been identified at the site, they were legally bound to protect its habitat, regardless of community reaction.
I will always remember Eltham as the suburb that was outraged when McDonalds wanted to build there. The superior locals protested against it because it would allegedly attract common riff-raff to their area. I'm not a big fan of Maccas, but I am glad they did get their building permit, because it was a victory for ordinary people over the snobs.
If they do plan on double-tracking it, building a second single-track bridge might be a good way of preservation. The old bridge carries trains in one direction, the new one in the other. And of course, any new bridge should be designed to fit in with the old one.
I was literally walking under this bridge for the first time yesterday and I was noting how old the bridge appeared, then this video came up on my feed after having never watched a Taitset video...nice.
When I was a younger Civil Engineer, I took care of the maintenance of all the bridges on main roads in western NSW, many of them timber so I enjoyed your video and can say that your terminology was much better than most. The only thing was timber v wood which is a bit like cement v concrete for Civil Engineers. If it is a tree, the material is wood. Once it is cut, trimmed, treated, etc, it becomes timber. The old issue of how old the bridge is when none of the members are original is like Grandpa and his axe. He boasts he has had the axe for 80 years. He has replaced the handle three times and the head twice but it’s still 80 years old. I had relatives living in Research so I have used Eltham station a few times. Unfortunately after a big night out in Melbourne, I caught the first train back to Eltham, fell asleep and ended up half way back to the city. The rattling timber bridge didn’t do its job waking me up for Eltham station.
Thanks, I didn't realise there was a difference between timber and wood. But now I think about it, I would never describe a tree as being made of timber!
Wooden structures have also recently been making a comeback because of newer treated wood compounds that are practically better than concrete and steel while also being extremely fire resistant! It’s also possible that if this section of the line had to be duplicated they might build it out of the new wood compounds that will soon be used for building more environmentally friendly and efficient skyscrapers due to how the wood could survive for an extremely long time without rotting because of how it’s treated! So in that case the original bridge could be retained with a new modern wooden single track bridge being built a few metres next to it for the second track! :)
Great video. I loved the explanation about the bridge and its historical significance. I noticed that from about 4:35 there's a video onboard a Comeng, and given that I'm prone to scouring UA-cam for any videos onboard Comeng trains on the Burnley and Clifton Hill lines, I was wondering if you could tell me what this video is (I assume it's one you've uploaded, if not that's fine). Thanks in advance. (Also that just gave me an idea if you could create a playlist featuring Comeng videos on those lines from your channel, both external and internal (including from stations and lineside), since they're rarely ever on them anymore. Hope that's something you can do.)
The onboard video was taken in 2017, when they were starting to get pretty rare. Whole thing here: ua-cam.com/video/IUSXI8bFj34/v-deo.html And another from a similar time: ua-cam.com/video/HckznJDR9SU/v-deo.html And a compilation of Comengs on the Hurstbridge line: ua-cam.com/video/paFEkZREnn8/v-deo.html
It's interesting how you mention that a lot of the bridge has been replaced. Very similar to what happens with some old wooden boats or ships. Some people may say it's not the same ship/boat/bridge but great to see it still there.
As a kid in the 50s and 60s we used to play on that bridge. Instead of getting on the (2) safety platforms when trains came we would get down to the tressle which was about 1 ft wider than the bridge. Drivers didn't care then and treated it as normal. It was not safe to be on the safety platform when school had finished. I remember one day a man was on the platform and train doors and windows were open those days and kids from the front carriage to back carriage spat on the man. The man went balistic and chased the train to the station to get the kids. When they pulled down the trestle road bridge in Brougham st Eltham they replaced it with a fake concrete trestle bridge
Thank you for the video! Definitely checking this out if I ever end up in Melbourne :) P.S. Would love to see a review of Perth's train lines if you ever make it over here!
I'm kind of local, been down there plenty of times. I guess one option, for the inevitable duplication, would be to realign the rail directly south. It would be a shame as the new alignment would hide the bridge, but it's better than losing it.
The metal hand rails aren't exactly pretty, but I'm also pretty sure Puffing Billy's trestle bridge over Monbulk Creek (which doesn't have rails, is sharply curved and is waaaaay higher) is a big part of why I'm terrible with heights.
Anither rare wooden trestle bridge, but now gone, and close to the city was one branching of the line between South Kensington and Footscray to serve the Angliss meatworks industry siding. Gone by the seventies. I think it's main use was at night so rare to see anything in it. Did remember T vans in the works factory platforms Rare to be photographed. May have snuck into Weston Langford photos by accident.
If that section of track ever gets duplicated, do you think they should build a single-track timber "twin" next to the original bridge, or a modern double-track bridge and preserve the original bridge as a pedestrian/bike path?
Elephant in the room question, to me at least, but since virtually all the Victorian suburban rail network use double tracks (For up and down passenger services), where does the trestle bridge have a secondary rail line (if any), as I'm curious to know if the section of track has a secondary rail line or is it strictly a single track only section and how it manages passenger services going both to and from the city?
I wonder if tou could make a video about rhe doubling of the line through eltham copoer butterfly habitat. Might be a bit boring but id like to see you present a video on it
As kids we used to walk across the bridge, sometimes just for something to do and other times if we needed to get to the other side of the creek if it had too much water to jump. I would not recommend anyone trying it now because with the welded rails you would not be able to hear approaching trains, with our ear to the rail method, until it was too late. I thought the ground was called the Eltham Cricket Ground, or it was in those days.
There are big socio-political differences between the two places. Also the Avon River bridge wasn't removed, a second bridge was built next to it, allowing it to be preserved - and this would have helped win over the locals. This probably wouldn't be possible at Eltham due to space constraints.
@@Taitset I going to clarify from my previous post and say that the Eltham Trestle Bridge needs only to be converted into a walking path and remain where it stands and a new alignment can be used for the new bridge that would of course be configured for double track in the future
As I understand it (from comments in my Bayswater Station upgrade video) rail is welded under a fair amount of tension. So that on hot days, when it expands, the tension just relaxes. Rather than have the track lengthen and buckle. If you put track under tension on a curved bridge, on very cold days it would try to "straighten the bridge out", so to speak. Obviously fish-plated joints, which have some play/slack, do not cause this issue. Thank you, now I have to fly to Melbourne to sit under a bridge deck while a train transits it. ~ laughs ~
In the comments you refered to the puffing billy trestles. Those trestles are full 5ft 3in capacity Vic Rail never developed light units so all trestles are full capacity
You can weld the rail off-site and drag it into position. I think it's more to do with the expansion and contraction forces being too much for a timber structure.
@@Taitset Fair point, they could drag it into position, and I'd be really surprised if the thermal movement didn't have some impact on the bridge. But what about repairs? Compared to cutting and pulling a 200m section of rail because they want to replace a 2m length in the middle of it, sticking with bolted rail seems the easier option. Your work is brilliant stuff by the way, I only just found your channel and I'm enjoying it immensely - I'm old enough to have ridden in Tait's and seen the last of the Blue and yellow parcels service :)
@@shanerogers24 Curiously there's also one single curve just before Hurstbridge which has remained jointed rail - not on a bridge or anything, so not sure what the story is there! Glad you're enjoying the videos. :)
Yeah, I agree about the duplication. Even if they duplicated all the way to Hurstbridge, given the bridge’s proximity to the station, I don’t see any need to remove it. I doubt it’d ever have the same bottlenecking that Heidelberg used to have.
@@HesderOleh whilst I'd like that, I think there's probably an alignment issue too. Looking at Eltham station from above and where the dual track would probably finish beforehand, I doubt they could install a new one next door. My best guess is that in order to have a dual bridge of any kind, the old bridge would have to go.
Ahh, the classic “ship of Theseus” Selena. If all the parts of a wooden bridge are teplaced over time, is it still the same bridge? Well, of course it it! But some may argue it isn’t. And to them I say: “Is it really worth getting into a philosophical debate? It’s in the same place, it looks the same, therefore, it’s the same.” Also, I would definitely consider it to be 120 years ol
"It’s in the same place, it looks the same, therefore, it’s the same.” Yes, the _design_ of that particular bridge is 120 years old. We don't talk about people not being the number of years we think they are simply because all atoms in our bodies have been replaced over the years. But our unique _design_ carried in our DNA is (essentially at least) unchanged.
If they were to duplicate the track around Eltham, if anything, I'm guessing they would just build another seperate bridge (Maybe wooden if they wanted to keep it in the same style) for the second track.
As long as the companies that do level crossing removal works and or other projects doesn’t get a hold of the bridge They can get away with a lot of things despite locals strong protest
Considering it was listed to keep it from being fully replaced, I wonder if, assuming a duplication were to happen if the overall aesthetic and unobtrusiveness could be preserved with a substantial rebuild to mimic its original appearance while improving its overall functionality.
Great but on thing all Melbournians get wrong...Eltham is a name made of two world..."Elt" meaning "old" and "-ham" meaning, "home". The name is correctly pronounced Elt-ham and wrongly El-th-am. I hope folks will star pronouncing it properly as Elt...ham.
Nobody pronounces Lalor correctly either. The suburb was named after Peter Lalor (pronounced Lawlor) but everybody refers to it as Laylor. Once the genie's out of the bottle there's no putting it back.
we used to do athletics in the oval nearby. always marvelled at this thing, seemed so odd to see an electric train on a wooden bridge for some reason haha
it's a bridge of Theseus!
Or grandpa's axe!
Reminds me of the “This old broom” joke
69th like :)
Great video - thanks for sharing your passion for Eltham's iconic railway trestle bridge. At time stamp 03:20 you mention that the bridge is in fact not all wooden construction and that there are some steel girders and supports added to replace older timber beams. In fact, the original bridge was manufactured with steel girder supports, the capability for producing such was not available in Australia at the time and these were procured from Miliken Brothers Civil Engineers and Contractors in iron and steel construction, 11 Broadway, New York, USA. It was reported in the Heidelberg News on August 19, 1901 that 16 rolled steel beams (40, 743 lbs weight - 18,520kg) for the Diamond Creek Bridge had arrived in Melbourne from New York aboard the steamship MIMRO (ordered February 25, 1901)
As a railroad bridge engineer I always appreciate videos such as this, and your efforts are excellent in this case Taitset. I will offer a few “educated” guesses on two questions brought up. First, the lettering on the steel girder: it may state when and where the beams were painted, “Painted St. Kildare”. Second, the welded rail was likely omitted to reduce the longitudinal forces on the structure. The force from differential heat expansion on rail can be substantial, and the timber piers can only offer limited resistance to longitudinal load without lots of additional (and unsightly) bracing.
One last thing, the horizontal timbers at the top of the piers are typically call caps here in the States, but I believe they are called headers in Victoria.
Thanks for your insights! I suspected that might be the explanation for the lack of welded rail but wasn't sure.
I used to regularly sleep on the Frankston line, no wobbly trestle bridge, but you soon get to remember the feel of going through various sections, like the ex-level crossing into Frankston, or the slow crawl through the yards into Flinders street, so 99% of the time I woke when needed.
Although one night I remember waking at kananook (one stop from the end) and getting into a panic as I realised the train was going in the wrong direction!, I had slept right through pulling into Frankston and was about to return to the city.....
Or the other time when a briefcase got whacked into my knee, I jumped up in pain and got off - no sure why, I had one more stop to go... Brain fade?, well I was all but asleep at the time.
Not the first nor last time someone panicked at finding themselves at Kananook Station.
"There are no original timber pieces left, so it's not quite right to describe it as 120 years old" ah yes, the bridge of Theseus
I love seeing this bridge when I visit Eltham library!!
Thanks. While not a train geek, I am very fond of this local landmark. Had some of my wedding photos here on fact although long divorced. Love riding past on the way up to Diamond Creek
When I was a kid, and staying with my cousins in Eltham, we used to play a lot in this area. I remember the dare was to make it across the bridge before a train came along.
Been years since I took the time to have a look.
Good memories.
Did u ever not make it?
My cousins were a railway family. Uncle Ken designed most signals etc for VR. So therefore my cousins knew the system well. We got caught halfway one time but simply waited for the train to pass upon the small maintainance platforms on the side of the bridge.
Jeez you get an ass booting nowdays....
I remember we quite daringly laid 3 rolls of caps on the rail there....yes the train stopped....
Uncle Ken must have gotten word of this and gently let us know he'd skin us all if it happened again...
For a country kid, this was an adventure of grand proportion.
Great great memories.
Great video! My grandfather was the stationmaster at Eltham from about 1961-1981 when he retired.
Growing up in Monty meant I didn’t often go over this bridge, but I do think it’s important that it still exists. It is a landmark for sure, a little bit of the old Eltham.
Fantastic channel, thanks for your hard work, research and knowledge.
As a native wildlife lover, I appreciated the beautiful footage of the cockatoo, thank you!
As a kid who used to live in Diamond Creek in the 60's, I have gone over this trestle bridge in trains many times. I'm so glad it survives to this day.
Congratulations, Martin, on this brief but very well put together video on Eltham's rail trestle. It's one of the many features along the Hurstbridge line that make it such a great excursion for visitors to Melbourne that are looking for something away from the tourist traps to do for several hours on a rest day.
Whenever I converse with International visitors that are looking for such a diversion, I point out the Hurstbridge train services to them and describe how the rail corridor covers the many layers of suburbia and the semi-rural atmosphere beyond Greensborough. Hopefully your presentation reaches many of our future visitors as well as those who have been here but didn't know about the Eltham rail trestle. Great work and hope to bump into you again somewhere along the line (possibly Sunday with the Tait Set running to the Eaglemont Village Fair). Cheers from Michael😀
Very thorough and interesting video. Appreciate the work that went into making this. 👌
I’ve allways been interested in trestle bridges. And I’ve allways loved the Eltham trestle
Should also note there was also another trestle bridge on the network all be it the v/line network at the Avon river bridge which was part trestle which was recently replaced by a new bridge
There was also an entirely wooden one near Rosedale until a few years ago, but it was surrounded by private property so photos are rare.
A rare wooden one close to the city was branching of the line between South Kensington and Footscray to serve the Angliss meatworks siding.
Gone by the seventies. I think it's main use was at night so rare to see anything in it. Rare to be photographed. May have snuck into Weston Langford photos by accident.
When floods recede having the wide open bridge actively helps the water flow away. Embankments force the water through the bridge section unless they have regular culverts
Yes, channelisation is good for running cargo vessels up and down rivers BUT bad for watershed management. It also tends to create far worse flooding than would otherwise occur.
It's always bewildered me seeing this bridge and how it survives, but the Hurstbridge Line near the end has always been a bit weird. One memory of Black Saturday was seeing all the trestle bridges in the Yarra Glen area completely disappear.
Also when did you get a Comeng on the Hurstbridge Line? That's one heck of a rare sight these days.
That was 2017, when Comengs still appeared occasionally. The last time I saw them on the line was a handful of times in 2018.
I don't live anywhere near Eltham but over many years I've driven to this very place with all my dogs for walks and to just enjoy the area. Looking at the drone footage I can tell where exactly where I have sat with each of my dogs and enjoyed a lunch on a sunny day.
I'm glad the bridge is still there and now I know why. Well presented.
In your commentary you had the answer as to why the rails are not welded. Flex and also expansion. Beaut video, I have lived in Melbourne all my life and that is a long time now . It shows that there is always some thing to be learnt. learned about a bridge that I did not know existed until this video.
Thank you for a great presentation. I have to confess I travelled over the bridge years ago and did not know it was there. I do remember the Puffing Billy bridge..
Most informative and enjoyable to view as always (thank you) Taitset and may the old wooden railway bridge at Eltham, live on for many years to come!
Great video once again. I've been enjoying checking out your back catalogue.
Growing up in Eltham in the 80s and 90s, I hated the love this bridge received. Having no access to a car and being stuck way out in the suburbs, I had to rely on a single line going in and out of Eltham, whose trains were made to slow to a crawl, all to preserve this annoying anachronism.
Being slightly older, I can now perhaps better appreciate some of the charm of the bridge; but watching this video did bring back some painful memories of 40min waits for a train out to Eltham on a Sunday and waving goodbye to friends who lived just two stations closer in Greensy catching an earlier one, all so some hack artists out at Montsalvat, who didn't even use public transport, could enjoy the clickety clack sounds of yesteryear! (Deep breath). At least that's how it felt to edgy teenage me at the time sitting on a cold train platform with only people watching to keep me occupied.
These days, I do find the back and forth rocking of the train over the bridge quite pleasant but I do feel for anyone who relies on this single line service for their only way in and out of Eltham
Glad you've been enjoying the videos! While the bridge (and single track sections in general) do place a limit on the maximum possible frequency, they don't actually contribute to the 40/60 minute waits that still happen at certain times on the line today. Ever since Macleod-Greensborough was duplicated in 1977, it's been physically possible to run a 20 minute frequency to Eltham (and even Hurstbridge) at all times. Since the 2023 duplication to Montmorency, it's now possible to run a 10 minute frequency to Eltham, and 20 to Hurstbridge, and this does happen for short periods during the peak hours. Anything less than that in the off-peak isn't an infrastructure limitation, just a political one.
@@Taitset I guess I figured that with two lines running out to Eltham, there'd be no reason to have trains halt at Greensborough and that Eltham, being only two stops further, would become the default, but I really don't know how accurate this thinking was.
I now live near Footscray and am rather spoiled for choice for trains out of the city but do occasionally have reason to jump on the Hurstbridge line from time to time and am happy to say my views on the Trestle Bridge have somewhat softened. I do however lament the loss of a landmark site between Rosanna and Heidelberg station. There used to be a small park on the left side while heading city bound with a couple of mounds, each capped with a singular wooden bollard at their centers, which always made me giggle well past the age at which I should have stopped. Honestly I was amazed it was allowed to exist for as long as it did but I will miss T. Tee's Mounds.
Anyway, thanks again for the quality videos and looking forward to hearing more about the network. Fantastic stuff.
@@barrypuccini6142 I know the mounds you speak of! I never thought twice about them until somebody in high school pointed out how funny they were. Certainly a tragic loss.
Just love it!
The wobbles have considerably lessened since the last re-furb...
Very, very interesting, and probably worth a trip from ACT to view. I've seen a few remains of timber trestle bridges in the rural areas to the north of Melbourne so this bridge is special. Thanks for posting.
Excellent presentation on a piece of railway history. Thank you
We are Eltham locals and we love this bridge. Great video 😊
I'm so glad this video popped up on my feed! I used to see this bridge everyday and ride on the trains to go the eltham library!
Great Video!
I remember going over the trestle Bridge in the single carriage Tait train in the late 70s, and also walking from Macleod to Diamond Creek because there was a train strike in the middle of summer lol
From memory, the single-car Tait normally only operated on the shuttle between Eltham and Hurstbridge, so wouldn't have gone over the trestle. Of course there could be occasions that it did for some special reason. (It would have been attached to other carriages when running to/from the city.)
@@PJRayment Greensborough to Hurstbridge,
@@adriaandeleeuw8339 Why was it running from Greensborough? Do you recall?
I made friends with Eltham people a couple of years after moving to Melbourne from Ballarat and rode this train on man an occasion. Eltham people are the best people.
Lovely story, thanks for sharing
Thanks for this.
A good resource to refer friends to when the mysterious, to them, Eltham trestle topic comes up.
Fantastic video.
You nailed the reason for it's continued use in that the community is very artistic focused. I like it, regardless of the swaying and ride feel. Duplicating it will be a nightmare when the time comes just from the environmental concerns alone, I know whole chunks of current HLUP project had to get de-scoped during initial design due to (of all things) the native butterfly population between Monty and Eltham.
It was only a short section of the HULP that had to be changed, the bit through the cutting at the down end of Montmorency. The Eltham Copper Butterfly is classified as Endangered, so once it had been identified at the site, they were legally bound to protect its habitat, regardless of community reaction.
Nimbies will be protesting any duplication as well. Much like they do in altona.
@@that_kca You can count on a Nimby to stand in the way of progress!
I will always remember Eltham as the suburb that was outraged when McDonalds wanted to build there. The superior locals protested against it because it would allegedly attract common riff-raff to their area. I'm not a big fan of Maccas, but I am glad they did get their building permit, because it was a victory for ordinary people over the snobs.
Thank you for this video mate, i will be sure to visit this bridge when I visit melbourne myself hopefully this year
Eltham was my local station growing up and I can attest to waking up over the bridge after a night out in the city! 😂
Love that bridge, we are from Albury but love Eltham and are up there often.
Fantastic video. I’ve lived in Melbourne 12 years and had no idea! Thank you.
If they do plan on double-tracking it, building a second single-track bridge might be a good way of preservation. The old bridge carries trains in one direction, the new one in the other. And of course, any new bridge should be designed to fit in with the old one.
Excellent videodocumentary....well presented indeed 👍🙂
I was literally walking under this bridge for the first time yesterday and I was noting how old the bridge appeared, then this video came up on my feed after having never watched a Taitset video...nice.
Thanks for the video Taitset
When I was a younger Civil Engineer, I took care of the maintenance of all the bridges on main roads in western NSW, many of them timber so I enjoyed your video and can say that your terminology was much better than most. The only thing was timber v wood which is a bit like cement v concrete for Civil Engineers. If it is a tree, the material is wood. Once it is cut, trimmed, treated, etc, it becomes timber. The old issue of how old the bridge is when none of the members are original is like Grandpa and his axe. He boasts he has had the axe for 80 years. He has replaced the handle three times and the head twice but it’s still 80 years old. I had relatives living in Research so I have used Eltham station a few times. Unfortunately after a big night out in Melbourne, I caught the first train back to Eltham, fell asleep and ended up half way back to the city. The rattling timber bridge didn’t do its job waking me up for Eltham station.
Thanks, I didn't realise there was a difference between timber and wood. But now I think about it, I would never describe a tree as being made of timber!
@@Taitset I was surprised that none of the piles were original. Often they are the only original members left in timber bridges.
Love this as I love the trestle bridge Puffing Billy crosses. Good job in saving it 👏 👍
What a beautiful bridge
Wooden structures have also recently been making a comeback because of newer treated wood compounds that are practically better than concrete and steel while also being extremely fire resistant! It’s also possible that if this section of the line had to be duplicated they might build it out of the new wood compounds that will soon be used for building more environmentally friendly and efficient skyscrapers due to how the wood could survive for an extremely long time without rotting because of how it’s treated!
So in that case the original bridge could be retained with a new modern wooden single track bridge being built a few metres next to it for the second track! :)
The drone shots are awesome
I can't wait to see it when I go to Melbourne! Great job Martin, I love your stuff 🎉😊
Hoping to see it someday, great video. I love your videos :)
Great video. I loved the explanation about the bridge and its historical significance. I noticed that from about 4:35 there's a video onboard a Comeng, and given that I'm prone to scouring UA-cam for any videos onboard Comeng trains on the Burnley and Clifton Hill lines, I was wondering if you could tell me what this video is (I assume it's one you've uploaded, if not that's fine). Thanks in advance. (Also that just gave me an idea if you could create a playlist featuring Comeng videos on those lines from your channel, both external and internal (including from stations and lineside), since they're rarely ever on them anymore. Hope that's something you can do.)
The onboard video was taken in 2017, when they were starting to get pretty rare. Whole thing here: ua-cam.com/video/IUSXI8bFj34/v-deo.html
And another from a similar time: ua-cam.com/video/HckznJDR9SU/v-deo.html
And a compilation of Comengs on the Hurstbridge line: ua-cam.com/video/paFEkZREnn8/v-deo.html
Great, thank you.
Nice video answering a question I never actually had but ought to have known the answer to!
It's interesting how you mention that a lot of the bridge has been replaced. Very similar to what happens with some old wooden boats or ships. Some people may say it's not the same ship/boat/bridge but great to see it still there.
Ship of Theseus.
Great video! Keep up the great work mate
I see they finally finished the refurbishment of this bridge over the last weekend.
3:00 “Nice”…
Awesome video :) Thanks!
Never knew this,must make a rail trip out there👍
As a kid in the 50s and 60s we used to play on that bridge. Instead of getting on the (2) safety platforms when trains came we would get down to the tressle which was about 1 ft wider than the bridge. Drivers didn't care then and treated it as normal.
It was not safe to be on the safety platform when school had finished. I remember one day a man was on the platform and train doors and windows were open those days and kids from the front carriage to back carriage spat on the man. The man went balistic and chased the train to the station to get the kids.
When they pulled down the trestle road bridge in Brougham st Eltham they replaced it with a fake concrete trestle bridge
Wonderful video, thank you.
(I esp. loved the Little Corella you filmed eating lunch?)
Yes it's Corella paradise down there!
Thank you for the video! Definitely checking this out if I ever end up in Melbourne :)
P.S. Would love to see a review of Perth's train lines if you ever make it over here!
Hopefully will eventually, Perth is currently the only city with a suburban network I haven't visited in Australiasia!
@@Taitset Yesss do it!!
You got a like simply because of that quick 'nice' that flashed up on screen lmao
Would love to see a video on the Albion viaduct bridge!
I'm kind of local, been down there plenty of times. I guess one option, for the inevitable duplication, would be to realign the rail directly south. It would be a shame as the new alignment would hide the bridge, but it's better than losing it.
The metal hand rails aren't exactly pretty, but I'm also pretty sure Puffing Billy's trestle bridge over Monbulk Creek (which doesn't have rails, is sharply curved and is waaaaay higher) is a big part of why I'm terrible with heights.
Anither rare wooden trestle bridge, but now gone, and close to the city was one branching of the line between South Kensington and Footscray to serve the Angliss meatworks industry siding.
Gone by the seventies. I think it's main use was at night so rare to see anything in it. Did remember T vans in the works factory platforms Rare to be photographed. May have snuck into Weston Langford photos by accident.
Duu
Hf
If that section of track ever gets duplicated, do you think they should build a single-track timber "twin" next to the original bridge, or a modern double-track bridge and preserve the original bridge as a pedestrian/bike path?
My taxi would have been much cheaper if that bridge woke me up the one time I used it, asleep, drunk, on the last train home
Elephant in the room question, to me at least, but since virtually all the Victorian suburban rail network use double tracks (For up and down passenger services), where does the trestle bridge have a secondary rail line (if any), as I'm curious to know if the section of track has a secondary rail line or is it strictly a single track only section and how it manages passenger services going both to and from the city?
It's single track here, and there are actually lots of single track sections around the city.
@@Taitset without to hard a look Belgrave, Lillydale Alamein all have single rail sections.
@@adriaandeleeuw8339 As do Upfield, Altona and Cranbourne.
@@Taitset Cranbourne was just duplicated.
What date was this filmed?
Did you film today Saturday 30th. I think I saw you filming
Wasn't me, I'm in NSW currently!
That maintenance facility should be fixed. Makes the area around look bad.
I wonder if tou could make a video about rhe doubling of the line through eltham copoer butterfly habitat. Might be a bit boring but id like to see you present a video on it
As kids we used to walk across the bridge, sometimes just for something to do and other times if we needed to get to the other side of the creek if it had too much water to jump. I would not recommend anyone trying it now because with the welded rails you would not be able to hear approaching trains, with our ear to the rail method, until it was too late. I thought the ground was called the Eltham Cricket Ground, or it was in those days.
The Avon River bridge was recently replaced with a modern structure and the Eltham Trestle will suffer the same fate, only difference is time!!!
There are big socio-political differences between the two places. Also the Avon River bridge wasn't removed, a second bridge was built next to it, allowing it to be preserved - and this would have helped win over the locals. This probably wouldn't be possible at Eltham due to space constraints.
@@Taitset I going to clarify from my previous post and say that the Eltham Trestle Bridge needs only to be converted into a walking path and remain where it stands and a new alignment can be used for the new bridge that would of course be configured for double track in the future
Hey, Taitset. What is your AFL team? What is your NRL team? What about BBL? And finally, what about A-League?
I don't really follow much sport, I watch major soccer games but that's about it!
On the Trestle Bridge how come there still the vintage metal powerline poles than the modern metal powerline poles
There are still loads of the original poles around the network.
As I understand it (from comments in my Bayswater Station upgrade video) rail is welded under a fair amount of tension. So that on hot days, when it expands, the tension just relaxes. Rather than have the track lengthen and buckle. If you put track under tension on a curved bridge, on very cold days it would try to "straighten the bridge out", so to speak. Obviously fish-plated joints, which have some play/slack, do not cause this issue.
Thank you, now I have to fly to Melbourne to sit under a bridge deck while a train transits it.
~ laughs ~
In the comments you refered to the puffing billy trestles. Those trestles are full 5ft 3in capacity Vic Rail never developed light units so all trestles are full capacity
In terms of load bearing I can imagine that's true, but the deck is still narrower and the curves tighter than is possible with 5'3".
Why no welded rail? I'm no expert, but Thermite welding on a wooden bridge doesn't sound like a particularly good idea to me. :)
You can weld the rail off-site and drag it into position. I think it's more to do with the expansion and contraction forces being too much for a timber structure.
@@Taitset Fair point, they could drag it into position, and I'd be really surprised if the thermal movement didn't have some impact on the bridge. But what about repairs? Compared to cutting and pulling a 200m section of rail because they want to replace a 2m length in the middle of it, sticking with bolted rail seems the easier option. Your work is brilliant stuff by the way, I only just found your channel and I'm enjoying it immensely - I'm old enough to have ridden in Tait's and seen the last of the Blue and yellow parcels service :)
@@shanerogers24 Curiously there's also one single curve just before Hurstbridge which has remained jointed rail - not on a bridge or anything, so not sure what the story is there! Glad you're enjoying the videos. :)
Yeah, I agree about the duplication. Even if they duplicated all the way to Hurstbridge, given the bridge’s proximity to the station, I don’t see any need to remove it. I doubt it’d ever have the same bottlenecking that Heidelberg used to have.
I wonder if they would duplicate with a new trestle bridge. I think that would make sense.
@@HesderOleh whilst I'd like that, I think there's probably an alignment issue too. Looking at Eltham station from above and where the dual track would probably finish beforehand, I doubt they could install a new one next door. My best guess is that in order to have a dual bridge of any kind, the old bridge would have to go.
i live in eltham & i pass it almost every day
I'll have to have a visit! it'll help me get out of the house.
im at the bridge as im typing this! i heard a train go right over my head! so cool
4:44 when was that filmed because it that a Comeng
A long time ago
2017.
Ahh, the classic “ship of Theseus” Selena. If all the parts of a wooden bridge are teplaced over time, is it still the same bridge?
Well, of course it it! But some may argue it isn’t. And to them I say: “Is it really worth getting into a philosophical debate? It’s in the same place, it looks the same, therefore, it’s the same.”
Also, I would definitely consider it to be 120 years ol
"It’s in the same place, it looks the same, therefore, it’s the same.”
Yes, the _design_ of that particular bridge is 120 years old. We don't talk about people not being the number of years we think they are simply because all atoms in our bodies have been replaced over the years. But our unique _design_ carried in our DNA is (essentially at least) unchanged.
Hi
You can’t weld on a wooden bridge because the bridge could catch fire. If you weld rail it will get hotter than 2000°C something wood can’t withstand.
I’m going on the hurstbridge line
I wonder if they would duplicate with a new trestle bridge. I think that would make sense.
If they were to duplicate the track around Eltham, if anything, I'm guessing they would just build another seperate bridge (Maybe wooden if they wanted to keep it in the same style) for the second track.
I think it says winted rskilda 12/42
so this is why they say clickity clack in the chuggington theme song
As long as the companies that do level crossing removal works and or other projects doesn’t get a hold of the bridge
They can get away with a lot of things despite locals strong protest
They will never get a hold of the bridge. They can't break the heritage laws.
@@enochliu8316 i hope it stays that way
welded rail would probably set the timber bridge on fire.
Considering it was listed to keep it from being fully replaced, I wonder if, assuming a duplication were to happen if the overall aesthetic and unobtrusiveness could be preserved with a substantial rebuild to mimic its original appearance while improving its overall functionality.
An American idea since 1860
Thank god for NIMBYs.
I thought the 69 part was nice as well touche
I was waiting for someone to notice that!
ELT ham
trigger's bridge
Great but on thing all Melbournians get wrong...Eltham is a name made of two world..."Elt" meaning "old" and "-ham" meaning, "home". The name is correctly pronounced Elt-ham and wrongly El-th-am. I hope folks will star pronouncing it properly as Elt...ham.
Probably about 150 years too late to fix that!
Nobody pronounces Lalor correctly either. The suburb was named after Peter Lalor (pronounced Lawlor) but everybody refers to it as Laylor. Once the genie's out of the bottle there's no putting it back.
The English Eltham is pronounced Elt-ham, but I'm not sure that the Victorian Eltham ever has been. Chat-ham, on the other hand...
we used to do athletics in the oval nearby. always marvelled at this thing, seemed so odd to see an electric train on a wooden bridge for some reason haha