The quality of analysis reminds of Thinking Basketball's annual NBA rankings, and that's saying a lot. I'll be looking forward to this yearly now. This is amazing.
Excellent analysis. Happy to see you put A'ja second without fear while using sound analysis. I still think she is the best...but you make Napheesa a credible choice for the top spot with your arguments. Very well done...felt like I was watching a Capstone Project presentation for a Master's degree...look forward to more. P.S. Bravest thing was the Chennedy argument...she is legit top 5 hated in my opinion, despite her high skill level. I can imagine having her in your top10 took some consideration...she is very polarizing.
I agree with you for the most part, but a couple of areas where I disagree: 1. Every player needs some level of off-ball facility, which lowers my estimate of both Chennedy and AT for the purposes of this exercise. In addition to lacking a three-point shot, you rarely see Chennedy generating offense out of anything that isn't a drive to the basket, and you can't do that every time down the court. It is an issue I would worry about when picking her for a team in a vacuum. 2. I think the Aces guards generating most of the offense in the playoffs isn't a knock against A'ja, since her gravity is what facilitates it. Every team sells out to help against her which has left Chelsea/Kelsey/Jackie lots of room to maneuver, and they are skilled enough to take advantage, driving the offense into nuclear territory. Which isn't to say that I take particular issue with the ranking since I think there's a path to putting both Phee and Stewie ahead of her due to variety of offense (I still would take A'ja, though).
@@snapwilson316 great points! i’m insanely high on Chennedy for sure so i had a feeling that would get the most pushback. I think under Marsh she can really be a volume slasher/playmaker that has consistent top 10 impact. I’m curious to know where you have AT since I thought I had her ranked relatively lower than most people have her.
@@jfeltonn I am thoroughly polarized on AT more than I've ever been on any player MNBA or WNBA. Even watching every single play of hers the year before I struggled where to rank her (I think I wound up putting her 7th). At Sixth Pod, we're doing positional rankings over the next few weeks and I'll have some time to think about it.
Good list. I don’t necessarily disagree with Carter’s inclusion but I’ll emphasize your point about lacking an outside shot. Simply put. I don’t think a guard can thrive in the modern game on slashing alone. They need to either be a playmaker with at least 4 or 5 assists per game OR an outside threat with at least 36% on 4+ attempts per game.
Ben Taylor posted the formula in a nylon calculus article he wrote a few years ago. The full formula is near the bottom fansided.com/2017/08/11/nylon-calculus-measuring-creation-box-score/
sad to see CC and Sabrina so much higher than e.g. jones. watching sabrina brick shot after shot with jones holding the liberty together, it's hard to make sense of her sitting at #8 for me
Great list. My top 10 would be: 1. A'Ja Wilson 2. Napheesa Collier 3. Breanna Stewart 4. Sabrina Ionescu 5. Caitlin Clark 6. Alyssa Thomas 7. Jonquel Jones 8. Nneka Ogwumike 9. Jackie Young 10. Kahleah Copper
You have 1 rookie in this top ten list. Is that fair? If you used numbers for Caitlin for just the last 20 games, her totals in assists and points would make her #1 or #2. Your selection is very similar to what the biased media picked the all WNBA teams. How can Thomas be rated so high when she got only 10.6 PPG? How is that top ten? Did you check on how much these other players got better after their rookie year?
Same, most of these players are known entities who've either peaked or are in decline, and infact he gave them credit for performing better in past seasons and the one player on the list that's on a rocket trajectory improvement curve gets downplayed because of stats in the first few months as they adjusted. This would make sense if you were assessing an award for the season as a whole and impact averaged out over all games but if you were picking one of those ten for a randomly constructed team for 2025, ie in the future, then CC has to be top 2 based on her demonstrated development across the season, maybe NC's experience would pip CC if you could only have the player for 1 season but if you are starting a franchise then CC is the better pick. Again, Josh is the one that made the premise that this is picking someone to drop into a new team so trajectory and potential should weigh heavier in the assessment, if it was just a 2024 MVP list then having CC at 4 is fine.
i feel like stewarts no longer in her prime and if she is then its her worst of her prime so far i think clark will either win mvp ( if the league allows her) her collier will next season
“Objectively” is crazy because guess who broke the most points accumulated in a season, first to 1000 points, broke the rebound record in a season, broke the ppg in a season record, became points leader in her franchise, became Olympic mvp and much more…
@@_M.... please be fr now. a’ja single handedly carried that team on defense and offense. In what world is averaging 27 ppg not a benefit? Aces would’ve been worst in the league if not for a’ja’s defense alone. btw why would she add value in playmaking when she’s a big? that’s not her speciality. what value did phee add in playmaking?
@@_M.... gray was the most inconsistent she’s ever been as well as much of the rest of the team. she didn’t even start much even when she came back. plus voters don’t have to vote someone for mvp if they didn’t think they’re the mvp… ppl have free will lmao. and when did winning mvp become a team award? so because they went 5-5 in the beginning they shouldn’t give it to the player with all these accolades listed above?
Sabrina was clearly better than CC this year (don't ignore the early stretch), and I don't believe Chennedy was T10 this year a lot of players had a better case than her. Everything else is fair IMO. good video
fair. I'm EXTREMELY high on Chennedy so I understand that one is controversial. I think her numbers will explode with Marsh as the HC. I think CC and Sab are really close, but i can't say with certainty that CC's early season stretch was any worse than Sabrina's final 11 games or so to end to the season so that's my only pushback.
caitlin was sleepwalking to 25 and 10 by the end. that was sabrinas most contending season for mvp. a 41% vs 39% fg and a 52% vs 58% ts as well. sabrinas a pro but i really think this point is just people's tendency to favor someone because of seniority, because its not like caitlin didnt also have to make herself undeniable (rightfully so)
@@IrishInot This. There is a huge tendency to downplay CC's skill, but you can't argue with her stats, especially over Sabrina. I love Sabrina, but she was hot and cold throughout the season and the playoffs. She belongs on this list, but not above CC.
@@jfeltonn My thoughts on chennedy aren’t about talent. I expect her numbers to explode as well and at times she was T10 it just wasn’t consistent enough imo. On the CC Sab point I thought you blew by how you evaluated them as defenders this year. Both aren’t good but Sabrina was clearly better at that end. CC defense was outright detrimental at times this year I never thought that about Sabrina this year vs other years.
The quality of analysis reminds of Thinking Basketball's annual NBA rankings, and that's saying a lot. I'll be looking forward to this yearly now. This is amazing.
Enjoyed your wnba videos this year!!
thank you! I can't wait for next season!
Excellent analysis. Happy to see you put A'ja second without fear while using sound analysis. I still think she is the best...but you make Napheesa a credible choice for the top spot with your arguments. Very well done...felt like I was watching a Capstone Project presentation for a Master's degree...look forward to more. P.S. Bravest thing was the Chennedy argument...she is legit top 5 hated in my opinion, despite her high skill level. I can imagine having her in your top10 took some consideration...she is very polarizing.
Napheesa collier is the most skilled i ever seen in wnba. The talent is unreal 🔥
Great work!
thank you 🙏🏾
I agree with you for the most part, but a couple of areas where I disagree:
1. Every player needs some level of off-ball facility, which lowers my estimate of both Chennedy and AT for the purposes of this exercise. In addition to lacking a three-point shot, you rarely see Chennedy generating offense out of anything that isn't a drive to the basket, and you can't do that every time down the court. It is an issue I would worry about when picking her for a team in a vacuum.
2. I think the Aces guards generating most of the offense in the playoffs isn't a knock against A'ja, since her gravity is what facilitates it. Every team sells out to help against her which has left Chelsea/Kelsey/Jackie lots of room to maneuver, and they are skilled enough to take advantage, driving the offense into nuclear territory. Which isn't to say that I take particular issue with the ranking since I think there's a path to putting both Phee and Stewie ahead of her due to variety of offense (I still would take A'ja, though).
@@snapwilson316 great points! i’m insanely high on Chennedy for sure so i had a feeling that would get the most pushback. I think under Marsh she can really be a volume slasher/playmaker that has consistent top 10 impact.
I’m curious to know where you have AT since I thought I had her ranked relatively lower than most people have her.
@@jfeltonn I am thoroughly polarized on AT more than I've ever been on any player MNBA or WNBA. Even watching every single play of hers the year before I struggled where to rank her (I think I wound up putting her 7th). At Sixth Pod, we're doing positional rankings over the next few weeks and I'll have some time to think about it.
Josh + Chinese Food , I love my Mondays afternoons
Yeah CC!
Good list. I don’t necessarily disagree with Carter’s inclusion but I’ll emphasize your point about lacking an outside shot.
Simply put. I don’t think a guard can thrive in the modern game on slashing alone. They need to either be a playmaker with at least 4 or 5 assists per game OR an outside threat with at least 36% on 4+ attempts per game.
Yeah, Carter has some wheels. She may be the quickest player in the league… maybe Heideman or Canada
What are you using for box creation estimates?
Ben Taylor posted the formula in a nylon calculus article he wrote a few years ago. The full formula is near the bottom
fansided.com/2017/08/11/nylon-calculus-measuring-creation-box-score/
Who are some players u think can crack the list next year?
Kayla McBride is one I definitely think can. Jackie Young of course is another that could easily make it next year as well
sad to see CC and Sabrina so much higher than e.g. jones. watching sabrina brick shot after shot with jones holding the liberty together, it's hard to make sense of her sitting at #8 for me
ps i see those median splits you make!!
whew
Great list. My top 10 would be:
1. A'Ja Wilson
2. Napheesa Collier
3. Breanna Stewart
4. Sabrina Ionescu
5. Caitlin Clark
6. Alyssa Thomas
7. Jonquel Jones
8. Nneka Ogwumike
9. Jackie Young
10. Kahleah Copper
You have 1 rookie in this top ten list. Is that fair? If you used numbers for Caitlin for just the last 20 games, her totals in assists and points would make her #1 or #2. Your selection is very similar to what the biased media picked the all WNBA teams. How can Thomas be rated so high when she got only 10.6 PPG? How is that top ten? Did you check on how much these other players got better after their rookie year?
Same, most of these players are known entities who've either peaked or are in decline, and infact he gave them credit for performing better in past seasons and the one player on the list that's on a rocket trajectory improvement curve gets downplayed because of stats in the first few months as they adjusted. This would make sense if you were assessing an award for the season as a whole and impact averaged out over all games but if you were picking one of those ten for a randomly constructed team for 2025, ie in the future, then CC has to be top 2 based on her demonstrated development across the season, maybe NC's experience would pip CC if you could only have the player for 1 season but if you are starting a franchise then CC is the better pick. Again, Josh is the one that made the premise that this is picking someone to drop into a new team so trajectory and potential should weigh heavier in the assessment, if it was just a 2024 MVP list then having CC at 4 is fine.
i feel like stewarts no longer in her prime and if she is then its her worst of her prime so far i think clark will either win mvp ( if the league allows her) her collier will next season
Phee is the correct objective #1 spot on this list. It's not even a contest. I don't understand the reasoning for A'ja taking the MVP, honestly.
“Objectively” is crazy because guess who broke the most points accumulated in a season, first to 1000 points, broke the rebound record in a season, broke the ppg in a season record, became points leader in her franchise, became Olympic mvp and much more…
@@_M.... please be fr now. a’ja single handedly carried that team on defense and offense. In what world is averaging 27 ppg not a benefit? Aces would’ve been worst in the league if not for a’ja’s defense alone. btw why would she add value in playmaking when she’s a big? that’s not her speciality. what value did phee add in playmaking?
@@_M.... gray was the most inconsistent she’s ever been as well as much of the rest of the team. she didn’t even start much even when she came back. plus voters don’t have to vote someone for mvp if they didn’t think they’re the mvp… ppl have free will lmao. and when did winning mvp become a team award? so because they went 5-5 in the beginning they shouldn’t give it to the player with all these accolades listed above?
@@_M.... like please be soo fr rn… a player averaging 27 and 11 brings no value to the table at least bring valid talking points 😐
Sabrina was clearly better than CC this year (don't ignore the early stretch), and I don't believe Chennedy was T10 this year a lot of players had a better case than her. Everything else is fair IMO. good video
fair. I'm EXTREMELY high on Chennedy so I understand that one is controversial. I think her numbers will explode with Marsh as the HC.
I think CC and Sab are really close, but i can't say with certainty that CC's early season stretch was any worse than Sabrina's final 11 games or so to end to the season so that's my only pushback.
No she's not. Stats says no.
caitlin was sleepwalking to 25 and 10 by the end. that was sabrinas most contending season for mvp. a 41% vs 39% fg and a 52% vs 58% ts as well. sabrinas a pro but i really think this point is just people's tendency to favor someone because of seniority, because its not like caitlin didnt also have to make herself undeniable (rightfully so)
@@IrishInot This. There is a huge tendency to downplay CC's skill, but you can't argue with her stats, especially over Sabrina. I love Sabrina, but she was hot and cold throughout the season and the playoffs. She belongs on this list, but not above CC.
@@jfeltonn My thoughts on chennedy aren’t about talent. I expect her numbers to explode as well and at times she was T10 it just wasn’t consistent enough imo.
On the CC Sab point I thought you blew by how you evaluated them as defenders this year. Both aren’t good but Sabrina was clearly better at that end. CC defense was outright detrimental at times this year I never thought that about Sabrina this year vs other years.