But it does actually fit here. The game is described as being about survival and sanity. Throughout the game you collect 'Elder Shards' that give you power in exchange for corrupting your soul. The bosses and lore hint at great cosmic powers beyond your understanding that are presumably toying with you. One of the bosses is even called Nyarlathotep, although that doesn't suggest Lovecraftian so much as it hits you over the head with a sledgehammer that has LOVECRAFT chiselled into it in giant Gothic letters. So, yes, as obnoxious as the thematic shoehorning may be, it is still valid. BTW, no-one has yet called Splatoon Lovecraftian, but I'd sure like to see someone try to justify that opinion.
It is that sure, I think the reason why I like it more is that the gameplay is really satisfying and mechanically variable right away. The lenght of the run is also short enough to give a very good sense of progression. I am looking forward to see where it goes once completed.
Dead Cells is not really a metroidvania though... it is a beat-em-up rouge-lite with a few metroidvania elements thrown in. It has no backtracking, the map is inherently highly linear, and there is no point in exploring every nook and cranny because all those nooks & crannies will be replaced after your next death. The time-lock gates actually strongly encourage rushing thru... if you're a methodical player like me who wants to cover every room in a level, you always end up short by 2 mins. Room to Room exploration and mastering the map isn't core to the experience, which really is the heart of metroidvanias.
I think it could still work if devs used the concept to enhance rather than displace what makes a metroidvania a metroidvania... say have all/some rooms have a random enemy selection, not like Sundered's endless constantly spawning hordes but just some times room #34 has 3-4 bouncy ninjas, sometimes it has 1 giant armored tank, etc. That on it's own would make map traversal a bit more interesting because different enemies would require different tactics... a tank in one particular room could be enough of a pain in the ass to encourage the player to take a different route to where they were going, just that one time. The general issue with procedural generation, period, is devs have come to treat it in general as a way to cop out of making hand-crafted content; which concern often runs counter to artfully using the other aspect, which is to vary the gameplay experience in unpredictable ways to keep it all fresh & novel.
The idea of Lovecraftian is that humanity is insignificant to the greater horrors of the universe, that we will never beat the unknown that surrounds us, that trying to understand the cosmic unknown will always result in death and fates much worse than death. I don't feel many games capture that, exception to darkest dungeon and bloodbourne to a lesser extent, and this game certainly does not capture this idea.
lovecraftian is lovecraft-like by definition, as in if a media says it's lovecraftian, it's saying it's like lovecraft stories. Punching Cthulhu in the face isn't what lovecraft or lovecraft like stories are about. That is just taking a very few selected elements of the lovecraft stories and using them for your own story and purposes, which if fine if that's what you want to do, but don't say it's lovecraftian or lovecraft-like just because it uses these one or two elements that don't on their own define what lovecraft was about. Furhtermore, to use Cthulhu as a boss you can just wail on for a high score, is to redifne what Cthulhu was meant for, which means you're just making a creature similar to cthulhu in a limited aspect and then slapping the label "Cthulhu" on that creature. Essentially you're making a knock off figure. If I Ryu's name and likeness from Street fighter to use in a twin stick shooter game that involve guns instead of awesome combos, I can't say the game is Street Fighter like when the only thing I took from the street fighter was a bastardize version of their main character.
traveler Last to be honest I feel like there's another big idea (which only Bloodborne nailed) in Lovecraft's books: humans can't really comprehend those eldritch horrors. And when they can, they go insane. In BB we have insight, which allows us to see Amigdalae early, but there's a catch: the hunter becomes less resistant to Winter Lanterns, which inflict huge amounts of damage through insanity. Also, most of the great once we see chose to be seen. Ebrietas, Amigdala, the Moon Presence. All of them were sympathetic enough to humans (and wanted to reproduce) to allow themselves to be seen. On the other hand we have Oedon (and his daughter, Mergo) which we don't see, they are only mentioned. Oedon is said to exist only as a voice, but that's a description made by a human. Humans can only percieve his voice, and even that is incomprehensible. We hear Mergo, but we never see her.
That is exactly what I explained in my first comment, we are doomed to never fully comprehend the cosmic unknowns. That is also why I said to a lesser extent bloodbourne, in terms of a game embodying what lovecraft stories are about. the game doesn't fully stick to the lovecraftian story as in a game you still have the "beat the boss" concept which is nonexistent in lovecraft novels.
traveler Last The Last Door is fantastic, if you want more references to Lovecraft's work you could try Euclidean or Conarium. I think that Lovecraft is more of a theme, it doesn't have to pertain to his particular brand. Games such as The Vanishing of Ethan Carter or What Remains Of Edith Finch tell very Lovecraftion stories without them explicitly being about an overpowering cosmic force.
I thought I misheard it at first. George, if you are reading this please get to Hollow Knight ASAP. If you played this garbage of a game, Hollow Knight will be a great experience.
DMC3 is one of the greatest action games ever made, and it's gameplay is still amongst the top of the industry to this day. Even so, it was not uncommon (and , in fact, it was quite usual) to have large segments in the levels of that game where none, or very very few combat took place. Pacing is important, and Itsuno understood that. You build up to the action romps. The entire game can't be one big bombastic action set-piece, because then you must get tired and bored. Having enemy spawns be random is just dumb, stupid and lazy game design. You need to know exactly where to put combat encounters in your action game.
I probably have something wrong with me, but i can't stand quite time in games. I instantly lose all the flow AND all the focus, i can't continue, i basically have to start from scratch every time QUITE TIME happens. Probably because action games for me are, basically, rhythm games. I actually always was wishing for a game like Sundered, that's the main reason i even bought it when i first saw it - because it will provide me with constant flow. THis is also why even with all my love to Devil May Cry i rarely replay it and pretty much spend all the time in Bloody Palace. Lengthy quite time with empty rooms breaks my flow, dammit. Also, main reason why i prefer 4 to every other game in the series, because it has probably the least ammount of quite times (excluding FUCKING BOARD GAME SECTION).
the enemy spawns being random is no the problem, its how they chose to implement such a scheme is the problem. Puking a ton of enemies with near zero AI at you that you mop up like a DW games sounds atrocious. However, as alluded to in the video, games like Rogue Legacy or any Diablo-like or [insert other games with randomization enemy placement and/or spawns] don't seem to suffer from any problems related to their randomness (baring a person who hates it any form because reasons).
Beat-em-ups is the most impenetrable genre for Western devs next to shmups, no one learns the lessons of past successes and focuses on the superficial aspects, leaving incoherent mashups of movesets and encounters.
BINARYGOD I agree, look at dead cells. The enemy spawns in that game are mostly procedurally generated and while not entirely random as they follow an algorithm depending on the room template they're spawned in its close ebough and the same premise for the sake of this discussion. The difference is they did it well. Implementation makes all the difference.
Awesome, we're procedurally generating Metroidvanias now, a genre built entirely on strong, purposeful level design. I increasingly feel that independent developers on Steam are just smashing together genres they like without considering how the limitations of each genre affects the other...
Sundered reminds me Dust: An Elysian Tale quite a bit. Both have beautiful hand-drawn art styles, both are metroidvanias coupled with a genocidal melee combat system with lots of damage numbers flying on screen. Except Dust has actual level-design made by a person and a combat system complex enough to keep you entertained. This review made me want to go back and finally beat Dust.
It's sad yet familiar to hear the art assets overcompensate the inherent game design flaws in Sundered, because I played JOTUN not long ago and it's the same deal.
DeL Keyes I dropped out of jotun after getting to the first boss . The character is too slow , doesn't deal too much damage , and that same attack pattern is bullshit .
Not to mention the isometric angle provides the most inconvenient inconsistencies with hit detection and size relations between player character and bosses. So many unnecessary deaths as a result of this perspective decision.
I actually liked Jotun honestly, but when I saw the trailer for this game I instantly knew it wasn't going to be good for me. They are an entire different deal imo, I find Jotun fitting for what it is, love the boss fights, it just seems like Sundered tried to be too much.
The problem here is procedural generation without purpose. It's just pairing rooms and corridors, the procedure is just build a room and not build a level. There's no direction because of this, instead of being built around concepts and ideas like most levels that are hand designed would be (at least in well made games anyway). That's not to say you can't do this with procedural generation, you just have to design the procedure and not the level. I wish people would stop using procedural generation, it's a bit of a fad but people don't really know how to use it it seems. They're just tacking it on because that's what people seem to want now within the indie scene. Maybe once people get bored of that and developers move on, it'll be used when it's right and not just because it's popular.
Procedural generation is, basically, EZ MODO, when you just can't bother yourself with making a level, bothering about level design and so on. It's completely fine when it's intended as a part of the system, but when it's just an easy way out... no. Never try to use the easy way out in level design.
Games like this should be always tailored really IMO (but that's just to my tastes, I still enjoy like Rogue Legacy and stuff, it's built around it), when a large part of the gameplay is walking from one point of a map to another, you need to make sure that's a hell of an interesting walk. That needs those little details and direction that only a human can really provide. Imagine Castlevania 1 if it was randomly generated. If you want immersion and atmosphere (which judging by the art style they did), that's needed.
Yeah definitely, that kinda game is perfect for it, just like Civilisation, or Sim City. The less level design you need, the more perfect proc-gen becomes. I feel like it could be done with traditional "levels" in a way that's interesting though. Enter the Gungeon works great with it, because it's run, dodge and shoot. That's the game, it just gives you good environments to do that stuff in and because the spaces are structured like traditional levels, it gives you pacing and a difficulty curve that you wouldn't get if it just spawned enemies in a room with you. There's no real right or wrong answers (well actually there are definitely wrong ones aha) to this question, but I feel like it becomes more obvious depending on what experience you want to make. But I imagine devs don't really understand that until too late sometimes, then you just have to roll with it. That's probably what happened with this game to be fair.
ACE Tactical its a good headphone kinda game. I like it and also agree with everything he said. I have a hard time finding games I can zone out on. It not a great boon but I like it because I can lost an to music and kinda just grind through while enjoying my time
I feel like Hollow Knight is the opposite of this game. Huge focus on simplistic but skillful combat, very detailed world building, and it also tells its story in a similar fashion to dark souls BUT its not a "souls-like". Basically does everything right and its a unique experience.
Jason Doe DO IT! Hollow Knight is the indie game of the year! The beautiful artwork, the breathtaking hand drawn animation, the atmospheric music, the fun combat, the sprawling levels to explore, the characters... I bought it on a whim and was taken by surprise by just how good it is, but what a wonderful surprise indeed.
1:43 "With a body count that makes Serious Sam look like Mother Teresa." To be fair, Mother Teresa is also directly responsible for an extreme amount of pain and suffering, going so far as to refuse aid to those who came to her because she found their suffering to be beautifully metaphorical to the anguish of Christ. I'm serious. Look up some of the shit she has done. She is an awful human being.
And to be fair, what has this comment got to do with games for crying out loud? There are *plenty* of places for discussion, conversation, debate and argument or whatever so what the hell was the relevance of this comment? Absolutely absurd that even when I go to places where I wish to have a respite from ideology, politics, whatever it rears its ever present head because of selfish people who want *everything* to be tainted with some ever present form of ideological discourse. Enough.
I actually just finished this last night, and my criticism at the end of that experience was exactly this. I didn't mind the hordes of enemies so much, but level design and just the amount of time it would take to get back to places if you died. And definitely getting lost on the screen particularly in big boss battles and certain hordes were my main to gripes. I hadn't thought about it too much at the time, and maybe it didn't bother me so much but the combat was definitely shallow, the amount of extra moves and combos you got wasn't great (well non-existent apart from slight powerups to attacks). I understand that would have been a lot more on the art and animation budget too, but it could have helped a lot to make the fighting a bit more dynamic than spam attack and cannon until your out of ammo then dodge a few times 'til your shield comes back up. Overall i think i had a good time with it, my ending playtime was 16hrs and to be fair i hardly ever put it down. Despite it's flaws i felt engaged and wanted to finish it, but there's definitely a lot of stuff it could so much better... I did the Neutral ending then quickly went back in to the same save file and did the "Good" ending. Will i play it again to do the Corrupted ending? Probably not. But i don't think i'll look back on it as entirely a disappointment, and hopefully ThunderLotus will be able to take the criticism of this game and build on it for their next project.
Glad you made this video, I've been trying to think of a way to make a more positive video, but I can't play more than 30 minutes of this game knowing I still haven't finished Hollow Knight.
hey I have an idea. let's take a genre whose most important element is level design and just let the computer do it. we're game designers we are. It's like having rng determine the moveset in a fighting game. I don't even know how it got past brainstorming. That's some next level laziness
I believe that to some extent you can have both, there are some games that, for example, have already designed rooms but the computer shuffles it around, it isn't completely random either, but it does allow to have runs that feel different, i think that the biggest problem is implementation
Was interested by previews of the game, so I added it to my wishlist. "Randomized elements." No thanks. Last year, I played a bunch of Rogue-lites of various sub-genres and hated them. Then I played games like DOOM and Momodora, and realized that for me, I prefer meticulously-designed level and enemy placement rather than sitting down and wasting time on another run through a game that hands off proper design to an RNG.
Even the art isn't all it's cracked up to be. Basically what they have is a very talented animator who creates brilliant concept art. And that's it. Their level artist is nowhere near as skilled, and they have no one to retrace and polish the spritework either, so they just stick to coloured sketches. The result is a disjointed mess. You could argue that it is its own style, but the at times ridiculously amateurish backgrounds really don't hold up. It does remind me a bit of Mommy's Best Games (Serious Sam Double D, Weapon of Choice, Shoot1Up), but that guy at least is doing it on purpose, and consistently so.
The ridiculous number of copies each enemy has on screen doesnt help either. They wore not designed to be spammed. I feel this game woulda benefitted from a soulslike combat system.
I get the promise behind procedural level design that gets people to keep coming back to it, the promise of replayability. It's just an empty promise, though. Until a computer algorithm for imagination becomes a real thing that can build a level with intent and and imagined lore and history it'll always be this way.
looks like a game designed by someone who eavesdropped on some mom trying to describe castlevania sotn to an elderly person after half listening to her son/daughter ranting about it during a car ride.
the funny thing I find about the obscene number of enemies I keep seeing reviewers talk about is that there's a way to control it. there's a system where the more random enemies that spawn in groups of 3-4 outside of hordes you kill, the more likely it is for a horde to spawn. and if you get it into your head that you need to absolutely kill every enemy you see in this game, then before long you just get horde every other minute or so, and if you can't kill said horde fast enough, the moment it completes you end up with another one. and the inverse works, too. i'm finding in my 2nd playthrough that avoiding the random rabble that barely spawns after you first start going through an area drastically reduces the number of hordes you get attacked by
... well, in the games' defense, the "Eldritch Edition" seems to have at least fixed the "constantly getting swarmed by fucktons of monsters" - complaint. There's plenty of quiet time now, as you explore the vast, abandoned excavation-sites, and enemy-hordes are restrained to "combat rooms" which are picked at random. On a higher difficulty, that can be quite a lot of fun as you never really know when you might suddenly get swarmed by a group of weird, otherworldly fauna. Personally I really like it. ^^
Enemies being able to clip through floors and walls and just in general be way too big for the space you find them in should be a game development sin.
Regardless of other reception, or whether this game is even capable of getting fixed, thanks for your review, because this is not what I thought the game was. I knew it was metroidvania, but that was about it. Might still pick it up on a sale but I don't expect to plunge right in any time soon.
Am I the only one who likes this game? Ive been addicted too it the past couple of days. I like the endless hoards of enemies that keep you always moving and the constantly changing pathways that cant just be memorized to get through quickly.
The visuals style and hectic fights still might do it for me, but with all the classics SOTN music you had in the video, it just makes me anxious for Bloodstained.
I just want to say - thanks for the last video. Wuppo is one of my all time favorite games now. It's amazing how it can be challenging platformer and an interesting puzzle-adventure game at the same time. And the lore is nuts! Not beating La-mulana for me, but still
If you liked Wuppo, you may also like "An untitled story" by Matt Thorson, which I think is one of its main inspirations. mattmakesgames.com/games/AnUntitledStory.zip
your reviews are so much more cerebal than most of the other guys out there it makes a refreshing change to the simple arbitray ( combat = 5/10 ) rating system and instead gives a real picked to the bone in depth anaylisis of the game. i rate this review a 10 out of ten and yes im being ironical ^_^
I tried playing this game twice, or maybe even three times, and I get complacent with it after several hours each time... I usually don't rely on reviews or other people's opinions to inform my own, but this Review of Sundered captured what I was feeling exactly. I think after watching this video I will not attempt to give it another shot (and I was planning to). I tend to try to finish games I buy with my hard-earned money, but with Sundered I'm just going to take the loss. Another thing that deflated my experience with Sundered was the occasional lagginess. Maybe it's because I was playing it on PS4... Either way, I can't suffer lag in a game like this. Imagine if Hollow Knight lagged in the middle of a boss fight... Great video, Hop.
If you didn't like this, but we're looking forward to the concepts it had then you might want to look at Seraph. It's got the side scrolling action that's much more interesting than this game, that takes a "gun fu" approach where you don't need to aim, but the challenge comes in positioning, selecting weapons and timing your abilities properly. Seraph also has a similar mythological theme in that you play a weakened angel fighting to escape a laboratory complex full of demons that you are somehow complicit in. Hopefully it can get you over the disappointment of this game.
Ok. the Game is absolutely flawlessly great! you just have a different feeling and opinion about it! It is fun to play, extremely atmospheric ... and I love the way, they put the lore in it... subtle, something horrible has happened. You have to puzzle it together yourself. It is an INTELLIGENT game. You have to use your brain to get through. AND skill! Only bad thing about it is, that it should have more than 3 save-slots. And I bet, they gonna do that without problems.
you are one of the few reviewers I actually trust and take into consideration before purchasing a game. It would be great if you made a monthly video of the games you liked or disliked, just and overview, not something deep and insightful like these (awesome) ones.
Interesting review, and thank you for posting it. I want to better understand the criticisms of this game, because I seem to be the only person who is absolutely in love with Sundered. To me, it just looks and feels so damn good that any potential design flaws have little effect on my overall experience with it. Am I alone?
From what I've read/heard, their previous game, Jotun, suffered from similar issues. I saw it on sale recently and never heard of it, but the art design looked incredible, and the setting was right up my alley. I wondered why I hadn't heard of it before, and it turns out there were some real issues with gameplay in that one as well. Only in Jotun, apparently it has too many of those 'quiet' moments. The major critique was that the only compelling parts were the boss battles...just like this game. So it looks like they have the bosses and the art down, but having a lot of trouble with the rest of it.
I wasn't going to buy this game till I watched this review. Beautiful hand-drawn graphics, inventive bosses, Loevcraftian lore, and a level up system I can either abuse in noobness, or ignore and try and run through the whole game without leveling up? Awesome. Am buying this now!
It makes you wonder why the team put so much obvious love in to the look of the game when you have too few an opportunity to appreciate them. It reminds me of the game Riptale you did a mini review on a few weeks ago without the cool combos you could pull but obviously a lot more polished... but does that automatically make it a better game? Apparently not, but then again I really dig the ZX Spectrum look of that game. :D
6:40 - Never, and I mean *ever,* make my eyes read something while my ears listen to a different sentence. That's insulting, it's like asking you to point each eye to a different direction ;) Rooting for you.
Totally agree. It was a free game on epic, and a friend had recommended it, but after playing for a while, I found I wasn't enjoying it at all. I came to look for reviews to see if I was missing something if I put in more time, and it looks like not.
Damn. I was looking forward to this as well. Though, unlike some, I wasn't a fan of Jotun. I liked the art style and the art style is what drew me to this title. I found the combat in Jotun to be dull and non engaging. What about Pyre? Will you be doing anything on that soon? I love supergiant and am fan of both Bastion and Transistor, but Pyre's combat seems hit and miss for me, so i'm not sold on it.
tbh sounds fun, the best place in hollow knight is the colosseum of fools and that's just waves of weak enemies instead of one strong boss. if the controls are good, i want to get this.
That's one of the reasons why I disliked Uncharted 1. It lacked the REAL QUIET TIME. Games need that to have a nice pacing. Super Bunnyhop did a good video about the subject. So I suspect, this might be the reason why I wouldn't want to bother with this game.
Surprisingly, i can't stand action games with quiet time, without need to go on constantly. I just lose all the flow. Maybe it's because i treat this type of games like Rhythm games, which they are for me.
Oh god, you're playing Uncharted 1 too? I'm struggling so much with this game, when I just finished 2 and 3 easily. No quiet time, clunky controls, surprising qtes and you die too quickly
if you havent, try vanquish and DONT THINK OF IT AS A COVER SHOOTER, dont rely on walls but use gliding and mobility.. if it clicks its just a beautiful elegant violent weave.
I'm not a medtroidvania or roguelike fan at all, so I actually love this game. I really appreciate the more casual experience it brings compared to the extremely laborious and involved gameplay making up most of those genres. The late game movement when you corrupt all the abilities is awesome, and you feel super powerful flying around the levels and blasting through huge hordes of enemies. I had to quit playing hollow night because it was too fucking frustrating and difficult even though I adore it and I love the world and the visuals. This game was much more reasonable in difficulty for my gaming needs. When I select normal difficulty I want to play a normally difficult game lol. I agree though that it's unsatisfying you will always win by default eventually just because of how the xp works so that dying makes you stronger.
Just got this one the Switch, to my dismay, the Epic Game Store was giving it out for free :( Anyway, although I'm having fun with the game, I agree with every point presented. There's no need for procedurally generated rooms, enemies seeming re spawn endlessly, although there are shortcuts there is no warp rooms/fast travel, and definitely little to no downtime to take in the sights and enjoy the art assets, let alone just have some time to look at the map. Well done good sir.
Well, after watching the video and reading many comments I think we've found what Thunder Lotus Games' weakness as an video game studio. Beautiful art and hand-drawn animation, but less thought and planning in game design.
>procedually generated boring tunnels as the primary level design in a supposed Metroidvania at that point it's a wannabe-roguelite that doesn't even have the balls to have any real permanent losses or actual complex systems, and certainly not a Metroidvania, a sub-genre known for concise level design that in the memorable cases is meticulously hand-crafted and designed with care
I'ma pile on. You really really really need to get around to just playing Hollow Knight. Fuck reviewing it. Coming from a long time sub, you are utterly bananas. It's Witcher 3 kinds of special.
You know, partway into the review i thought "man, id really love a Dead Cells review." But then after watching the video, i just realized that basically WAS the Dead Cells review, except with the names swapped
Imagine all the beautiful artwork, brain-picked stories and journeys, all substituted by "procedure generation". One more nail in the coffin for hard-work and originality. Kids eat up any shit that entertain them
I was going to buy it today, however I ended up buying Bastion , Transistor and Mother Russia Bleeds instead for like 16 dollars. I thought I would buy it later but to find out that it's not as good as it looks makes me think how lucky I was for not pre ordering it. But I also feel bad because I really got excited when I saw the trailer and I hope that it gets fixed in the future , just like Slain Back from Hell.
Procedural generation is a red flag for me at this point. It conveys that they want a game that'll be different every time regardless of quality instead of a game so good you'll want to play over and over again.
I bought Jotun when it was released, and became quickly aware that the majority of the development went into the (admittedly beautiful) art and animation; the game-play of Jotun was sorely lacking. I have decided to pass on Sundered because of that experience, and you have helped affirm that decision.
I've maintained for years that procedurally generated levels are uninteresting to play through and that these systems are almost never there for the benefit of offering the player "infinite replayability" as devs usually claim and that they're more there for devs who can't be arsed to actually learn how to design engaging levels and just use a random seed to construct their engagement for them out of a handful of room tiles and mechanics they'll begrudgingly include so the player actually gets to do something. Which is why you see so many rogue-lite games with procedurally generated levels and gameplay that typically consists out of one or two attack methods and not much else. In this case, the very fact that enemies don't have to abide by the same level restraints as the player is already a huge indicator where the priorities of the developer were.
Gamers: "theres 2 much downtime & not enuff action in Jotun :("
Developers: "YOU WANT ACTION? WE'LL GIVE YOU ACTION!"
*dials enemy-spawn up to 11*
The need a core designer and a level designer, they would make great games that way.
Can we please stop this trend of calling things "Lovecraftian" if the only link seems to be tentacles?
Shut up and play the latest Lovecraftian shooter from Nintendo: Splatoon 2!
Smash brothers is NOT a lovecraftian fighting game!
Lovecraft is the DarkSouls of tentacles dude
Are you sure that isn't a hentai reference?
But it does actually fit here. The game is described as being about survival and sanity. Throughout the game you collect 'Elder Shards' that give you power in exchange for corrupting your soul. The bosses and lore hint at great cosmic powers beyond your understanding that are presumably toying with you. One of the bosses is even called Nyarlathotep, although that doesn't suggest Lovecraftian so much as it hits you over the head with a sledgehammer that has LOVECRAFT chiselled into it in giant Gothic letters.
So, yes, as obnoxious as the thematic shoehorning may be, it is still valid.
BTW, no-one has yet called Splatoon Lovecraftian, but I'd sure like to see someone try to justify that opinion.
Even when it's a good game, adding procedurally generated next to 'metroidvania' kinda feels like missing the point of 'metroidvania'.
True...but "Dead Cells"
Elia Magrinelli I didn't get the hype for dead cells. Just felt like another roguelite to me.
It is that sure, I think the reason why I like it more is that the gameplay is really satisfying and mechanically variable right away. The lenght of the run is also short enough to give a very good sense of progression. I am looking forward to see where it goes once completed.
Dead Cells is not really a metroidvania though... it is a beat-em-up rouge-lite with a few metroidvania elements thrown in.
It has no backtracking, the map is inherently highly linear, and there is no point in exploring every nook and cranny because all those nooks & crannies will be replaced after your next death. The time-lock gates actually strongly encourage rushing thru... if you're a methodical player like me who wants to cover every room in a level, you always end up short by 2 mins. Room to Room exploration and mastering the map isn't core to the experience, which really is the heart of metroidvanias.
I think it could still work if devs used the concept to enhance rather than displace what makes a metroidvania a metroidvania...
say have all/some rooms have a random enemy selection, not like Sundered's endless constantly spawning hordes but just some times room #34 has 3-4 bouncy ninjas, sometimes it has 1 giant armored tank, etc. That on it's own would make map traversal a bit more interesting because different enemies would require different tactics... a tank in one particular room could be enough of a pain in the ass to encourage the player to take a different route to where they were going, just that one time.
The general issue with procedural generation, period, is devs have come to treat it in general as a way to cop out of making hand-crafted content; which concern often runs counter to artfully using the other aspect, which is to vary the gameplay experience in unpredictable ways to keep it all fresh & novel.
Yep, level design. One of the most underrated aspects of video games creation.
The idea of Lovecraftian is that humanity is insignificant to the greater horrors of the universe, that we will never beat the unknown that surrounds us, that trying to understand the cosmic unknown will always result in death and fates much worse than death. I don't feel many games capture that, exception to darkest dungeon and bloodbourne to a lesser extent, and this game certainly does not capture this idea.
Well, there's also Lovecraft-lite, which actually allows you to punch out Cthulhu in the face, which this game probably is.
lovecraftian is lovecraft-like by definition, as in if a media says it's lovecraftian, it's saying it's like lovecraft stories. Punching Cthulhu in the face isn't what lovecraft or lovecraft like stories are about. That is just taking a very few selected elements of the lovecraft stories and using them for your own story and purposes, which if fine if that's what you want to do, but don't say it's lovecraftian or lovecraft-like just because it uses these one or two elements that don't on their own define what lovecraft was about.
Furhtermore, to use Cthulhu as a boss you can just wail on for a high score, is to redifne what Cthulhu was meant for, which means you're just making a creature similar to cthulhu in a limited aspect and then slapping the label "Cthulhu" on that creature. Essentially you're making a knock off figure.
If I Ryu's name and likeness from Street fighter to use in a twin stick shooter game that involve guns instead of awesome combos, I can't say the game is Street Fighter like when the only thing I took from the street fighter was a bastardize version of their main character.
traveler Last to be honest I feel like there's another big idea (which only Bloodborne nailed) in Lovecraft's books: humans can't really comprehend those eldritch horrors. And when they can, they go insane. In BB we have insight, which allows us to see Amigdalae early, but there's a catch: the hunter becomes less resistant to Winter Lanterns, which inflict huge amounts of damage through insanity. Also, most of the great once we see chose to be seen. Ebrietas, Amigdala, the Moon Presence. All of them were sympathetic enough to humans (and wanted to reproduce) to allow themselves to be seen. On the other hand we have Oedon (and his daughter, Mergo) which we don't see, they are only mentioned. Oedon is said to exist only as a voice, but that's a description made by a human. Humans can only percieve his voice, and even that is incomprehensible. We hear Mergo, but we never see her.
That is exactly what I explained in my first comment, we are doomed to never fully comprehend the cosmic unknowns. That is also why I said to a lesser extent bloodbourne, in terms of a game embodying what lovecraft stories are about. the game doesn't fully stick to the lovecraftian story as in a game you still have the "beat the boss" concept which is nonexistent in lovecraft novels.
traveler Last The Last Door is fantastic, if you want more references to Lovecraft's work you could try Euclidean or Conarium. I think that Lovecraft is more of a theme, it doesn't have to pertain to his particular brand. Games such as The Vanishing of Ethan Carter or What Remains Of Edith Finch tell very Lovecraftion stories without them explicitly being about an overpowering cosmic force.
Super Bunnyhop hasn't played Hollow Knight!? Madness!
Patience my friend, he'll review it... any time now
I thought I misheard it at first. George, if you are reading this please get to Hollow Knight ASAP. If you played this garbage of a game, Hollow Knight will be a great experience.
I'm still hoping for Rain World...hoping...
Really, WTF!
But I think George isnt a big fan of metroidvania games...
Fabulous Knight he NEEDS to play Rain World
DMC3 is one of the greatest action games ever made, and it's gameplay is still amongst the top of the industry to this day.
Even so, it was not uncommon (and , in fact, it was quite usual) to have large segments in the levels of that game where none, or very very few combat took place.
Pacing is important, and Itsuno understood that. You build up to the action romps. The entire game can't be one big bombastic action set-piece, because then you must get tired and bored.
Having enemy spawns be random is just dumb, stupid and lazy game design. You need to know exactly where to put combat encounters in your action game.
I probably have something wrong with me, but i can't stand quite time in games. I instantly lose all the flow AND all the focus, i can't continue, i basically have to start from scratch every time QUITE TIME happens.
Probably because action games for me are, basically, rhythm games.
I actually always was wishing for a game like Sundered, that's the main reason i even bought it when i first saw it - because it will provide me with constant flow.
THis is also why even with all my love to Devil May Cry i rarely replay it and pretty much spend all the time in Bloody Palace. Lengthy quite time with empty rooms breaks my flow, dammit. Also, main reason why i prefer 4 to every other game in the series, because it has probably the least ammount of quite times (excluding FUCKING BOARD GAME SECTION).
the enemy spawns being random is no the problem, its how they chose to implement such a scheme is the problem. Puking a ton of enemies with near zero AI at you that you mop up like a DW games sounds atrocious. However, as alluded to in the video, games like Rogue Legacy or any Diablo-like or [insert other games with randomization enemy placement and/or spawns] don't seem to suffer from any problems related to their randomness (baring a person who hates it any form because reasons).
Beat-em-ups is the most impenetrable genre for Western devs next to shmups, no one learns the lessons of past successes and focuses on the superficial aspects, leaving incoherent mashups of movesets and encounters.
BINARYGOD I agree, look at dead cells. The enemy spawns in that game are mostly procedurally generated and while not entirely random as they follow an algorithm depending on the room template they're spawned in its close ebough and the same premise for the sake of this discussion. The difference is they did it well. Implementation makes all the difference.
God Hand was another brawler that never felt unfair to me
Awesome, we're procedurally generating Metroidvanias now, a genre built entirely on strong, purposeful level design. I increasingly feel that independent developers on Steam are just smashing together genres they like without considering how the limitations of each genre affects the other...
Sundered reminds me Dust: An Elysian Tale quite a bit. Both have beautiful hand-drawn art styles, both are metroidvanias coupled with a genocidal melee combat system with lots of damage numbers flying on screen.
Except Dust has actual level-design made by a person and a combat system complex enough to keep you entertained.
This review made me want to go back and finally beat Dust.
EpicRive You know that Dust is also an Action RPG, right?
the "complex" dust combat system:
jump and hold Y
win the game
Oh I remember them boasting on their KS "Some would say a procedurally generated metroidvania is not a good idea, we disagree" yeahhhhh... about that.
You'd think that of all people, game developers, specially experienced ones, would know that Metroidvanias live and die by level design, not combat.
It's sad yet familiar to hear the art assets overcompensate the inherent game design flaws in Sundered, because I played JOTUN not long ago and it's the same deal.
DeL Keyes I dropped out of jotun after getting to the first boss . The character is too slow , doesn't deal too much damage , and that same attack pattern is bullshit .
Not to mention the isometric angle provides the most inconvenient inconsistencies with hit detection and size relations between player character and bosses. So many unnecessary deaths as a result of this perspective decision.
I actually liked Jotun honestly, but when I saw the trailer for this game I instantly knew it wasn't going to be good for me. They are an entire different deal imo, I find Jotun fitting for what it is, love the boss fights, it just seems like Sundered tried to be too much.
I hope the rest of the team can form up and boot out the designers because whoever those clowns are have a knack for dragging their games down
It's so true. Heard great things about Jotun and bought it on sale and just can't finish it. The art is gorgeous but the combat is so dull.
Wow you tore that game aSUNDER
I swear the title said *'Tsundered'* before I clicked!
Now that would be some Lovecraftian horror about the struggle of maintaining sanity
Dust: An Elysian Tail did the spammy crowd-control thing with pretty art and music better. But then the game had actual level design.
The problem here is procedural generation without purpose. It's just pairing rooms and corridors, the procedure is just build a room and not build a level. There's no direction because of this, instead of being built around concepts and ideas like most levels that are hand designed would be (at least in well made games anyway). That's not to say you can't do this with procedural generation, you just have to design the procedure and not the level.
I wish people would stop using procedural generation, it's a bit of a fad but people don't really know how to use it it seems. They're just tacking it on because that's what people seem to want now within the indie scene. Maybe once people get bored of that and developers move on, it'll be used when it's right and not just because it's popular.
Procedural generation is, basically, EZ MODO, when you just can't bother yourself with making a level, bothering about level design and so on.
It's completely fine when it's intended as a part of the system, but when it's just an easy way out... no.
Never try to use the easy way out in level design.
Games like this should be always tailored really IMO (but that's just to my tastes, I still enjoy like Rogue Legacy and stuff, it's built around it), when a large part of the gameplay is walking from one point of a map to another, you need to make sure that's a hell of an interesting walk. That needs those little details and direction that only a human can really provide. Imagine Castlevania 1 if it was randomly generated. If you want immersion and atmosphere (which judging by the art style they did), that's needed.
It worked in FTL but FTL doesn't exactly have 'level design' maybe that's the secret
Yeah definitely, that kinda game is perfect for it, just like Civilisation, or Sim City. The less level design you need, the more perfect proc-gen becomes.
I feel like it could be done with traditional "levels" in a way that's interesting though. Enter the Gungeon works great with it, because it's run, dodge and shoot. That's the game, it just gives you good environments to do that stuff in and because the spaces are structured like traditional levels, it gives you pacing and a difficulty curve that you wouldn't get if it just spawned enemies in a room with you.
There's no real right or wrong answers (well actually there are definitely wrong ones aha) to this question, but I feel like it becomes more obvious depending on what experience you want to make. But I imagine devs don't really understand that until too late sometimes, then you just have to roll with it. That's probably what happened with this game to be fair.
This seems like the kind of mindless action I'd play while listening to podcasts or Audible books.
ACE Tactical its a good headphone kinda game. I like it and also agree with everything he said. I have a hard time finding games I can zone out on. It not a great boon but I like it because I can lost an to music and kinda just grind through while enjoying my time
RNG needs to die. Not every god damn game needs to be a roguelike.
I feel like Hollow Knight is the opposite of this game. Huge focus on simplistic but skillful combat, very detailed world building, and it also tells its story in a similar fashion to dark souls BUT its not a "souls-like". Basically does everything right and its a unique experience.
mobman47, after reading your comment, I really want to play Hollow Knight...
_checks Steam_
It even has a Linux version :D
Jason Doe DO IT! Hollow Knight is the indie game of the year! The beautiful artwork, the breathtaking hand drawn animation, the atmospheric music, the fun combat, the sprawling levels to explore, the characters... I bought it on a whim and was taken by surprise by just how good it is, but what a wonderful surprise indeed.
With your track record for pronunciations, I'm surprised I didn't hear "hero-eye-nee" for heroine.
Update on my impressions: The game had some faults but the newest update made it great! Got it then and been having a blast since!
1:43 "With a body count that makes Serious Sam look like Mother Teresa."
To be fair, Mother Teresa is also directly responsible for an extreme amount of pain and suffering, going so far as to refuse aid to those who came to her because she found their suffering to be beautifully metaphorical to the anguish of Christ.
I'm serious. Look up some of the shit she has done. She is an awful human being.
She also wanted to keep women lesser to men, even though empowering women helps decrease poverty.
Hazy mother theresa was an actual fucking monster
And global warming increase crime, piracy and all that shit. Damn you guys are dumb.
Pfff, everyone knows Global Warming and Piracy are an inverse proportion.
More pirates, less greenhousing.
And to be fair, what has this comment got to do with games for crying out loud? There are *plenty* of places for discussion, conversation, debate and argument or whatever so what the hell was the relevance of this comment? Absolutely absurd that even when I go to places where I wish to have a respite from ideology, politics, whatever it rears its ever present head because of selfish people who want *everything* to be tainted with some ever present form of ideological discourse. Enough.
Great review as always George!
Hollow Knight review coming? Wonderful!
I actually just finished this last night, and my criticism at the end of that experience was exactly this. I didn't mind the hordes of enemies so much, but level design and just the amount of time it would take to get back to places if you died. And definitely getting lost on the screen particularly in big boss battles and certain hordes were my main to gripes.
I hadn't thought about it too much at the time, and maybe it didn't bother me so much but the combat was definitely shallow, the amount of extra moves and combos you got wasn't great (well non-existent apart from slight powerups to attacks). I understand that would have been a lot more on the art and animation budget too, but it could have helped a lot to make the fighting a bit more dynamic than spam attack and cannon until your out of ammo then dodge a few times 'til your shield comes back up.
Overall i think i had a good time with it, my ending playtime was 16hrs and to be fair i hardly ever put it down. Despite it's flaws i felt engaged and wanted to finish it, but there's definitely a lot of stuff it could so much better... I did the Neutral ending then quickly went back in to the same save file and did the "Good" ending. Will i play it again to do the Corrupted ending? Probably not. But i don't think i'll look back on it as entirely a disappointment, and hopefully ThunderLotus will be able to take the criticism of this game and build on it for their next project.
Glad you made this video, I've been trying to think of a way to make a more positive video, but I can't play more than 30 minutes of this game knowing I still haven't finished Hollow Knight.
hey I have an idea. let's take a genre whose most important element is level design and just let the computer do it. we're game designers we are. It's like having rng determine the moveset in a fighting game. I don't even know how it got past brainstorming. That's some next level laziness
I'd not call randomness "just let the computer do it". I'd call it being extremely lazy and stupid.
I believe that to some extent you can have both, there are some games that, for example, have already designed rooms but the computer shuffles it around, it isn't completely random either, but it does allow to have runs that feel different, i think that the biggest problem is implementation
Was interested by previews of the game, so I added it to my wishlist.
"Randomized elements."
No thanks. Last year, I played a bunch of Rogue-lites of various sub-genres and hated them. Then I played games like DOOM and Momodora, and realized that for me, I prefer meticulously-designed level and enemy placement rather than sitting down and wasting time on another run through a game that hands off proper design to an RNG.
Fair enough
Even the art isn't all it's cracked up to be. Basically what they have is a very talented animator who creates brilliant concept art. And that's it. Their level artist is nowhere near as skilled, and they have no one to retrace and polish the spritework either, so they just stick to coloured sketches. The result is a disjointed mess. You could argue that it is its own style, but the at times ridiculously amateurish backgrounds really don't hold up. It does remind me a bit of Mommy's Best Games (Serious Sam Double D, Weapon of Choice, Shoot1Up), but that guy at least is doing it on purpose, and consistently so.
The ridiculous number of copies each enemy has on screen doesnt help either. They wore not designed to be spammed. I feel this game woulda benefitted from a soulslike combat system.
@@egoalter1276 The term "soulslike" is overused af.
I get the promise behind procedural level design that gets people to keep coming back to it, the promise of replayability. It's just an empty promise, though. Until a computer algorithm for imagination becomes a real thing that can build a level with intent and and imagined lore and history it'll always be this way.
looks like a game designed by someone who eavesdropped on some mom trying to describe castlevania sotn to an elderly person after half listening to her son/daughter ranting about it during a car ride.
Real subtle way of calling Dynasty Warriors a dinosaur, George.
I like the use of the Symphony of the Night soundtrack, too.
the funny thing I find about the obscene number of enemies I keep seeing reviewers talk about is that there's a way to control it. there's a system where the more random enemies that spawn in groups of 3-4 outside of hordes you kill, the more likely it is for a horde to spawn. and if you get it into your head that you need to absolutely kill every enemy you see in this game, then before long you just get horde every other minute or so, and if you can't kill said horde fast enough, the moment it completes you end up with another one. and the inverse works, too. i'm finding in my 2nd playthrough that avoiding the random rabble that barely spawns after you first start going through an area drastically reduces the number of hordes you get attacked by
Procedural Generation * shake fist at heaven *
Crafting
Open world
Early Acces
Surival
... well, in the games' defense, the "Eldritch Edition" seems to have at least fixed the "constantly getting swarmed by fucktons of monsters" - complaint. There's plenty of quiet time now, as you explore the vast, abandoned excavation-sites, and enemy-hordes are restrained to "combat rooms" which are picked at random. On a higher difficulty, that can be quite a lot of fun as you never really know when you might suddenly get swarmed by a group of weird, otherworldly fauna. Personally I really like it. ^^
Enemies being able to clip through floors and walls and just in general be way too big for the space you find them in should be a game development sin.
If only there were a word for how torn apart your opinion on this game was...
Sundered sounds like a surprise sexual maneuver performed by someone named Sunder.
Sundered REALLY makes me appreciate everything Dead Cells has going for it right now even before full release.
I do have to say though that this might be some of the most impressive looking enemy design at a glance
So it's basically the 2D Blood Rayne sequel everyone hated a few years ago...
tl;dr: "OPEN THE NOZZLE OF THAT MONSTER HOSE"
A + for saying "monster hose". Great review as always, nonetheless.
Regardless of other reception, or whether this game is even capable of getting fixed, thanks for your review, because this is not what I thought the game was. I knew it was metroidvania, but that was about it. Might still pick it up on a sale but I don't expect to plunge right in any time soon.
Am I the only one who likes this game? Ive been addicted too it the past couple of days. I like the endless hoards of enemies that keep you always moving and the constantly changing pathways that cant just be memorized to get through quickly.
The visuals style and hectic fights still might do it for me, but with all the classics SOTN music you had in the video, it just makes me anxious for Bloodstained.
I just want to say - thanks for the last video. Wuppo is one of my all time favorite games now. It's amazing how it can be challenging platformer and an interesting puzzle-adventure game at the same time. And the lore is nuts! Not beating La-mulana for me, but still
If you liked Wuppo, you may also like "An untitled story" by Matt Thorson, which I think is one of its main inspirations.
mattmakesgames.com/games/AnUntitledStory.zip
your reviews are so much more cerebal than most of the other guys out there
it makes a refreshing change to the simple arbitray ( combat = 5/10 ) rating system and instead gives a real picked to the bone in depth anaylisis of the game.
i rate this review a 10 out of ten
and yes im being ironical ^_^
I will add "side-'n'-scroll 'em, back-'n'-track 'em" into my vocabulary.
I tried playing this game twice, or maybe even three times, and I get complacent with it after several hours each time... I usually don't rely on reviews or other people's opinions to inform my own, but this Review of Sundered captured what I was feeling exactly. I think after watching this video I will not attempt to give it another shot (and I was planning to). I tend to try to finish games I buy with my hard-earned money, but with Sundered I'm just going to take the loss. Another thing that deflated my experience with Sundered was the occasional lagginess. Maybe it's because I was playing it on PS4... Either way, I can't suffer lag in a game like this. Imagine if Hollow Knight lagged in the middle of a boss fight... Great video, Hop.
If you didn't like this, but we're looking forward to the concepts it had then you might want to look at Seraph.
It's got the side scrolling action that's much more interesting than this game, that takes a "gun fu" approach where you don't need to aim, but the challenge comes in positioning, selecting weapons and timing your abilities properly.
Seraph also has a similar mythological theme in that you play a weakened angel fighting to escape a laboratory complex full of demons that you are somehow complicit in.
Hopefully it can get you over the disappointment of this game.
I can tell that you don't like making negative vids, but I feel like I learned a lot from this one. Keep up the good work!
Spot on. What gets me is that the enemy encounters really aren't difficult, they're just annoying.
Ok. the Game is absolutely flawlessly great!
you just have a different feeling and opinion about it!
It is fun to play, extremely atmospheric ... and I love the way, they put the lore in it... subtle, something horrible has happened. You have to puzzle it together yourself.
It is an INTELLIGENT game.
You have to use your brain to get through.
AND skill!
Only bad thing about it is, that it should have more than 3 save-slots.
And I bet, they gonna do that without problems.
Bummer. Was really looking forward to this.
This genre is basically like all the Tsundere girls in them anime, sometimes I dig it sometimes I don't.
Guess you could say this is game is a bit....
Tsundered
Confession. I did read it as Tsundere the first time I saw the title. I'm tresh.
Well said
you are one of the few reviewers I actually trust and take into consideration before purchasing a game.
It would be great if you made a monthly video of the games you liked or disliked, just and overview, not something deep and insightful like these (awesome) ones.
you know, people talk shit about programmer art.
but, there's also such a thing as artist design/programming.
Interesting review, and thank you for posting it. I want to better understand the criticisms of this game, because I seem to be the only person who is absolutely in love with Sundered. To me, it just looks and feels so damn good that any potential design flaws have little effect on my overall experience with it. Am I alone?
From what I've read/heard, their previous game, Jotun, suffered from similar issues. I saw it on sale recently and never heard of it, but the art design looked incredible, and the setting was right up my alley. I wondered why I hadn't heard of it before, and it turns out there were some real issues with gameplay in that one as well. Only in Jotun, apparently it has too many of those 'quiet' moments. The major critique was that the only compelling parts were the boss battles...just like this game. So it looks like they have the bosses and the art down, but having a lot of trouble with the rest of it.
I wasn't going to buy this game till I watched this review. Beautiful hand-drawn graphics, inventive bosses, Loevcraftian lore, and a level up system I can either abuse in noobness, or ignore and try and run through the whole game without leveling up? Awesome. Am buying this now!
Damn. You decimated this game.
George, we want-no, we demand a Metal Gear Solid 4 review...its been almost 10 years already!
You really need to play hollow knight
His jump is fabulous tho. 10/10
It makes you wonder why the team put so much obvious love in to the look of the game when you have too few an opportunity to appreciate them. It reminds me of the game Riptale you did a mini review on a few weeks ago without the cool combos you could pull but obviously a lot more polished... but does that automatically make it a better game?
Apparently not, but then again I really dig the ZX Spectrum look of that game. :D
Where are this generations Kojimas? Level design is an art, best not left to algorithms.
Horribly missing the point of incredibly great sounding games is the specialty of this Indie Group.
6:40 - Never, and I mean *ever,* make my eyes read something while my ears listen to a different sentence. That's insulting, it's like asking you to point each eye to a different direction ;) Rooting for you.
Totally agree. It was a free game on epic, and a friend had recommended it, but after playing for a while, I found I wasn't enjoying it at all. I came to look for reviews to see if I was missing something if I put in more time, and it looks like not.
4:13 Thanks for the much needed clarification
I find it telling that this is the only place I've heard of Sundered.
you didn't like it!
I am STILL LOVING it! (played it through fully two times now on different difficulties).
Now Sundered is done, we want the Pyre review
It never occured to me that George actually rarely does negative reviews. Most of his videos really are passion projects.
Damn. I was looking forward to this as well. Though, unlike some, I wasn't a fan of Jotun. I liked the art style and the art style is what drew me to this title. I found the combat in Jotun to be dull and non engaging.
What about Pyre? Will you be doing anything on that soon? I love supergiant and am fan of both Bastion and Transistor, but Pyre's combat seems hit and miss for me, so i'm not sold on it.
tbh sounds fun, the best place in hollow knight is the colosseum of fools and that's just waves of weak enemies instead of one strong boss. if the controls are good, i want to get this.
@ 4:13 So, I have no idea why you felt the need to explain this. You did pronounce it correctly!
You definitely need to get onto Hollow Knight. It'll definitely be more your thing. A somber, beautiful game with excellent world design.
That's one of the reasons why I disliked Uncharted 1. It lacked the REAL QUIET TIME. Games need that to have a nice pacing.
Super Bunnyhop did a good video about the subject. So I suspect, this might be the reason why I wouldn't want to bother with this game.
Surprisingly, i can't stand action games with quiet time, without need to go on constantly. I just lose all the flow.
Maybe it's because i treat this type of games like Rhythm games, which they are for me.
Oh god, you're playing Uncharted 1 too? I'm struggling so much with this game, when I just finished 2 and 3 easily. No quiet time, clunky controls, surprising qtes and you die too quickly
if you havent, try vanquish and DONT THINK OF IT AS A COVER SHOOTER, dont rely on walls but use gliding and mobility..
if it clicks its just a beautiful elegant violent weave.
Vanquish is awesome
Every 10 steps you took in uncharted 1 there was a firefight
I'm not a medtroidvania or roguelike fan at all, so I actually love this game. I really appreciate the more casual experience it brings compared to the extremely laborious and involved gameplay making up most of those genres. The late game movement when you corrupt all the abilities is awesome, and you feel super powerful flying around the levels and blasting through huge hordes of enemies. I had to quit playing hollow night because it was too fucking frustrating and difficult even though I adore it and I love the world and the visuals. This game was much more reasonable in difficulty for my gaming needs. When I select normal difficulty I want to play a normally difficult game lol. I agree though that it's unsatisfying you will always win by default eventually just because of how the xp works so that dying makes you stronger.
Jotun is pronounced Yo-tun, not Joe-ton
What a coincidence. On this same video I got a recomendation, for this video game. ua-cam.com/video/ZAGargyyIPQ/v-deo.html
nah.
George missed pronouncing class.
It's pronounced "Jontron".
Cheglord my thoughts exactly xD
Just got this one the Switch, to my dismay, the Epic Game Store was giving it out for free :( Anyway, although I'm having fun with the game, I agree with every point presented. There's no need for procedurally generated rooms, enemies seeming re spawn endlessly, although there are shortcuts there is no warp rooms/fast travel, and definitely little to no downtime to take in the sights and enjoy the art assets, let alone just have some time to look at the map.
Well done good sir.
Looking at the comments, I didnt expect so many people to know what Hollow Knight is. It hasnt really been played by any big youtubers.
I sure hope mr. Bunnyhop reviews hollow knight sometime that would be swell
Well, after watching the video and reading many comments I think we've found what Thunder Lotus Games' weakness as an video game studio. Beautiful art and hand-drawn animation, but less thought and planning in game design.
I think George was expecting an artsy exploration game with spooky vibes and was dissapointed to find an actual game.
>procedually generated boring tunnels as the primary level design in a supposed Metroidvania
at that point it's a wannabe-roguelite that doesn't even have the balls to have any real permanent losses or actual complex systems, and certainly not a Metroidvania, a sub-genre known for concise level design that in the memorable cases is meticulously hand-crafted and designed with care
Definitely get to hollowknight as soon as you can. It has made me feel like a kid again.
Half-Life 2 didn't get rebuild from the ground up, Half-Life 1 did, and that was "only" in development for a total of 2 years.
I'ma pile on. You really really really need to get around to just playing Hollow Knight. Fuck reviewing it. Coming from a long time sub, you are utterly bananas. It's Witcher 3 kinds of special.
You know, partway into the review i thought "man, id really love a Dead Cells review." But then after watching the video, i just realized that basically WAS the Dead Cells review, except with the names swapped
Imagine all the beautiful artwork, brain-picked stories and journeys, all substituted by "procedure generation".
One more nail in the coffin for hard-work and originality. Kids eat up any shit that entertain them
I was going to buy it today, however I ended up buying Bastion , Transistor and Mother Russia Bleeds instead for like 16 dollars. I thought I would buy it later but to find out that it's not as good as it looks makes me think how lucky I was for not pre ordering it. But I also feel bad because I really got excited when I saw the trailer and I hope that it gets fixed in the future , just like Slain Back from Hell.
Procedural generation is a red flag for me at this point. It conveys that they want a game that'll be different every time regardless of quality instead of a game so good you'll want to play over and over again.
I bought Jotun when it was released, and became quickly aware that the majority of the development went into the (admittedly beautiful) art and animation; the game-play of Jotun was sorely lacking. I have decided to pass on Sundered because of that experience, and you have helped affirm that decision.
combat looks fun as hell tbh. still tempted to try this
4:13 Thank you for the clarification
I've maintained for years that procedurally generated levels are uninteresting to play through and that these systems are almost never there for the benefit of offering the player "infinite replayability" as devs usually claim and that they're more there for devs who can't be arsed to actually learn how to design engaging levels and just use a random seed to construct their engagement for them out of a handful of room tiles and mechanics they'll begrudgingly include so the player actually gets to do something. Which is why you see so many rogue-lite games with procedurally generated levels and gameplay that typically consists out of one or two attack methods and not much else. In this case, the very fact that enemies don't have to abide by the same level restraints as the player is already a huge indicator where the priorities of the developer were.
Which is ironic as good procedural generation of complex systems would require far greater knowledge of good design.
Procedural generation is more difficult to pull off properly than most developers think it is when they embrace it as a win-win development option.