The Two Main Problems in the Fender Hot Rod Deluxe, Deville & Blues Deluxe Amplifiers.
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- Опубліковано 7 вер 2024
- This information goes pretty across the board to the whole Hot Rod Deluxe/Deville and Blues Deluxe line. The Blues Jr. and Pro Jr. have some similar issues with filter caps and a hot resistor or two, but obviously none of the channel switching stuff.
Also watch my newer video about Hot Rod Deluxe input jacks. • Fender Hot Rod Deluxe ...
I made this video because I see more of these than any other amp and they all have the same problems. If you're wondering what's up with your Hot Rod Deluxe, it is probably one of the two main issues. I really hope I don't sound too much like a cynical pretentious douchbag, but people gotta know this shit!
I love my HRD and in 19 years of gigs jamming and just playing, I replaced the tubes. I put Siemens Military power tubes and real Tung Sol 12AX7s that I was saving for just this moment. I got a Celestron V30 that is a great speaker for this amp. My Vox AC 30 always needed work, I was always renting or borrowing amps. I rented a Hot Rod Deluxe and fell in.love with it. I bought one and it never let me down. I have the 1969 Vox for a backup. I use a really modified Monoprice 15 watt amp for small bars and parties. They are great and they take pedals great. I know that they are louder than the Vox AC15 that I sold and went with the Monoprice.
Great little vid.
My hotrod went pop last night and showed all the symptoms of the resistor issue, so cheers
What drives me nuts is that with the cheap labor Fender is paying in Mexico, they could hand wire every amp they have for around an extra $100 in parts and labor, but for the few times they've done that (57 Bandmaster reissue or Clapton amps) they think they should get an extra $2000 for the amp. Unbelievable greed.
+St. Hugh Hey man, I agree with your general statement, but it does cost a bit more than $100 more to make a hand wired version. The hand wired amps Fender does still make do have much better components than their PCB amps, so that accounts for some of the price, but $2000 is kinda high for a single channel amp. I've been working on some designs for some hand wired amps to compete with the HRD market. It's tough though, even to get them to come out at about a grand, and that's only for a single channel amp.
+Bill Curran ~ I meant using the same components though. Most Mexicans make between 5 and 10 dollars per day, so 6-hours wiring an amp would only cost around 5 or 10 dollars in wages. Figuring they'd have to use better input jacks and pots that didn't have terminals made to fit PC boards might mean an extra 20 bucks or so. So hand wiring something like a HR Deluxe would only be another $30 or so in cost. I realize amps like the Clapton models are using better components.
they could - but they won't :D they would earn less and that is ALL that counts
@Nicko Lps The caps they use in their hand wired amps are the same.
@Nicko Lps Brother . . . they ARE better. They're easier to work on. You don't have to worry about trying to solder to a tiny, thin trace. More often than not these days components like pots and jacks are built into the board with no way to replace an individual one without replacing the entire board making e repair FAR more expensive. Placing tube sockets on boards is guaranteed to overheat traces and nearby components, not only making them fail but also sometimes adding static noise to the output. PC boards are the problem with our throwaway society. Turret boards are fine as long as they're thick and well-made. PC boards are what we most often see though, and they _are_ a problem.
It's the best selling amp series ever, I've never had a problem with any Fender amp personally. I mean, plenty of places sell tube amp kits that one can hand wire in a day or two. So what's the point of buying a factory amp with a warranty and then messing with it when you could just build exactly what you want
I agree 100%
Another reason that so many go in for repair is because they sell a ton of these and they’re worth getting fixed because they sound good and hold value. These amps are not junk. If you can afford a hand wired amp then go for it, if not then this amp is a good alternative.
I'm no rich guy, my first tube amp was a HRD, and the only way I can afford a hand wired amp is if I build it myself from scratch! It is a pretty well designed circuit, if only they installed better capacitors at the factory. I know it is made and sold as an affordable amp, and for the price you really can't get anything else in that ballpark, but to me it seems disrespectful to the customer to use such low grade parts. They don't have to go nuts and use the same ones they put in their hand wired amps, but there is a wide range of options between the top end and the bottom of the barrel, and IC Illinois Capacitors are about as bad as they get. If they spent just a few more cents (or possibly even saved money, ICs aren't always the least expensive), my estimate would be we'd see about half as many in for repair. Which would save a lot of guys from having to bring them in, saving them money they could put towards the amp of their dreams!
Bill Curran thanks for the reply and I completely agree with what you’re saying. I really wish Fender would address these issues as I feel that they’re great amps when working right.
Thanks for the video,man.No fartin around,straight to the point.Nice.
great video... ha ha fender should take notice... So many of these has dried out IC Caps and the two resistors should definately be floating on top of the PCB board.. A half inch of air space will not conduct much heat.. Even a dirt cheap kustom defender 15h had all the cement resistors lifted from the board...
Thanks, I guess I could pull the board out and check the wires and no doubt it could use caps. I'm an electrician but I'm not an amp repair man lol..it looks to have about a thousand solder points in it!
Thanks for the tip man. I lost my reverb signal today. Gonna check it out 😉👍
Thanks, Bill. Your advice is right on. I too have seen a lot of cooked traces in these areas.
Thanks for the help! I had a HRD that had the reverb thunder when shaken,but no input at 1&2.I swapped out the 12AX7 on the right side (looking from the back of amp),and voila it now works.
Thank you to everyone who has watched and commented on this video. I made a new video about upgrading the input jack(s) on Hot Rod Deluxes.
ua-cam.com/video/qW1D-i0i7Y4/v-deo.html
The Vishay-Dale heatsinked resistors work well too, you can actually mount these directly to the chassis and then run fly leads to the board and never have to worry about it again.
That's a bit of an extreme solution, but at least you know it will absolutely NEVER be a problem again! lol
It seems like a better solution, because heat can still transfer from the resistor through the lead to the trace and mounting a big resistor high off the board may create a vibration problem for the solder joint and potential failure of the joint again. Having the heat dissipate to the chassis instead and using flexible stranded lead wire will definitely make sure the joint never has an issue.
Great video! I've had my HRD for about ten years now and for the most part it's been pretty reliable but I do have issues with my reverb. A few years ago it started to go a little wacky. When I would turn the knob it would jump around in intensity and sometimes cut out all together on certain positions of the dial. Now it seems better but a little week if anything.
Thanks man! Hmm, check out my reverb tank video first, it might be as simple as a frayed wire that just needs to be re-soldered. If not, then I'd recommend changing those caps and resistors from this video. The 2 big resistors and all the caps around them regulate the reverb and switching power supplies.
Thanks for sharing dude. I think this just happened to mine. Made a horrible loud noise, amp started switching between channels and I smelled something burning so immediately shut it down.
Oh wow, yea it's normally not that exciting when they go down! lol
I bought one brand new in 96. It had the switching problem fresh out of the box! It was supposed to be under warranty but the authorized techs I had to send it to for repairs did not even attempt to fix it. instead they changed the pots, making it quieter, and worse. the input jacks are crap too. I still have the damn thing. I guess it's time to dig it out and replace some parts if that's even possible. I have been seriously pissed at fender for the last 25 years or more.
+Yellowstone Outdoorsman
Thanks man. Good question, I haven't actually seen inside an HRD3 in person (or even played one) yet, and don't have a schematic, but I saw a gut shot in another comment and for a distance it looks exactly the same inside. I assume the mods are just a few resistors and caps changed on the board, I have no idea what they are, but I can tell you where I'd start with modding the pre-amp.
Looking at the schematic right now, it would be tough to affect just the drive channel, but I would change the Bass cap to a .047uf or .022uF to start. Maybe raise the plate and cathode resistors on the 4th tube stage, it's only used by the drive channel and is a good place to add some tightness, probably raise them to 220k and 2.7k-3.3k respectively with a 1uf or less cathode bypass cap. Maybe change the output cap on the first stage headed to the drive control from a .0015uf to .001uf, subtle but should tighten it up a hair. Smaller cathode bypass caps all around will help too, but also affects the clean tone. I hope that helps man.
Geeese I was dealing with that same switching issue 25 years ago ! They didn't fix that yet? I used to use chassis mounted resistors, there is some heat being generated there, best thing would be if they had a separate tap on the transformer for that supply.
When I did repairs for music shops the Hot rod series was a steady stream of repair work for me.
thanks, found that both 500v filter on the left of the group and left of the board have crud coming from the bottom. now to figure out how to replace them . thx again.
While Bill's information is correct, he used "radial" capacitors to replace "axial" capacitors. You will be better off to buy F & T axial capacitors for your amp and silicone them on to the board.
Thank you! Just had this very issue happen to me...reverb shut down.....channel switching went into drive mode and will not switch out!
Chuck McCrory I have the same problem with my reverb! it doesnt work, how did you fix it??
I have the same problems, not switching and my reverb shut down, how did you fix it?
My first gen. Hot Rod DeVille is OK as far as what you covered. I just have very low power.
I just upgraded my Fender Champion speaker with a US made Jupiter speaker. Do you hear a difference? ua-cam.com/video/Frwk15ad7us/v-deo.html
MIM Fender Hot Rod Deluxe-number one repaired amp in my shop-like one a week!
Yep, I stopped doing repairs but when I was I had about one a week too.
Thanks for this vid, the second part would appear is what the issue is. I've lost reverb and nothing happens when switching to the distortion channel. Have to get it to the repair shop. Cheers
Brother I've tried EVERYTHING, after doing a lot of research and videos you're not the only person to say "switch out the cheap IC caps." Thank you! Can you recommend a good replacement and where I can purchase them? I have the fender hot rod deluxe and I love this amp but I've spent a lot of money on taking it to techs, switching tubes, whatever else they tried, purchasing SEVERAL surge protectors with noise filters... NOTHING has helped. I opened up my amp and saw these CHEAP IC filtercaps. Last thing to try before I give up and switch to solid state (which I really don't want too.) Thank you!
Yea those caps should have been the first thing to go man. Your best bet is Sprauge Atom or F&T caps, you can get them from from TubesandMore.com, TubeDepot.com. For the smaller radial caps I like the higher end Nichicon stuff that I get from Digikey.com or Mouser.com, where I also get those resistors. You don't really have to do all the cathode bypass caps but you definitely 100% need to replace the bias/switching/reverb supply caps. I hate to break it to ya, but solid state amps are no less prone to cheap caps going bad than tube amps. However I personally would take a Quilter over a HotRod any day! Good luck man!
Bill Curran thank you! Dropped it off to a local amp tech and he confirmed the IC brand is trash, told me mine wasn’t leaking yet but if I wanted too change them... I said yea might as well now before they leak plus I need to get rid of the hiss. Of course when I took my amp there it wasn’t hissing, Murphy’s law right? He started laughing said “that’s always the case, but I believe you”
Also had to change my preamp tube. It was still the original Groove tubes that came with it, it’s been over 15 years lol. I’ll be getting it back next week, fingers crossed!
Thanks for the video, could you make a short replacing them? or any specs you recomend?
I actually am planning on making a video or series of videos detailing the entire process from ordering the parts to the final outcome. I bought a Deville that needs all the work a couple of years ago but just haven't had the time to make the videos yet. After I finish I'm probably going to sell the repaired/modified boards and build a point to point Blackface style amp using that chassis and cabinet. Hopefully I can start making these videos soon! Thanks for the interest.
Hey man thanks for the advice, you really saved me from a lot of trouble, I had almost bought a fender hot rod deluxe 3 myself until I watched your video, now my question is: what amp would you suggest in the price range of a $500 to $1000? Thanks again mate, I upvoted and subscribed! keep up the good work!
I'm four years late, but for anybody else reading... Best amps in that range are the JC40, JC120 (for solid state), and the Marshall DSL40. I've had zero issues with those amps, they're built like tanks and have amazing tone. I've owned 3 modern Mexican made Fender combos and they all got sent back and had issues. Poor build quality, amps that burned out, horrible buzzing issues, bad tolex peeling off, etc. Fender amps that are made in Mexico have major quality control issues right now.
Today i played on one hot rod. Sound was so good,i didnt touch knob couse it wasnt mine, that iam thinking about owning one of these warm sounding combos
Thanks for the heads up on these problems, Left my Hotrod III Deluxe on overnight and it woke me up 04:00am buzzing like a fridge. I changed all the Russian Sovtek bits and biased them to 70mv .as recommended ...and it was better.. but it still hummed ! So I ordered Rubicon Capacitors from www.farnell.com. next day delivery and an easy fix! I snipped off the old ones at the cans and attached the new ones to the old tails. Powered it up and.... Awesome . It didn’t sound this good when I first bought it. Cheers Bill
Hey Bill, helpful video, thanks! Would you be able to tell us exactly what replacement caps you used, and where to get them? If you included links, that would be even better!
Thanks for sharing your knowledge
Weird. I've had my HRD for over a decade and I gig with it at least once a month. 4 X 10". No Issues. Great amp.
It is possible to get a good one! is it a 4x10" Deluxe or Deville? The Devilles were built slightly better, also the older ones were built a little better too.
@@GuitarBillCurran Mine is a Deville. The main issue I have with it is the volume knob sensitivity. I've been using a volume pedal in between the preamp and the power amp to help widen the control and drive/clip the amp at lower volumes. I'm not looking for metal tones, but a little 'natural' overdrive never hurts and the drive channel on these amps have never been my favorite.
the D. Willy I put a 12ay7 in v1 and changed to a log pot on the master volume. It adds more compression sooner but I can get a useable volume sweep before it gets ridiculously loud.
Mine is not producing any sound today... It starts, the light is on, the switches of drive and more drive works, I see the two big tubes on, but the other three of the Preamp are not... It's a Hotrod Deluxe iii...
Would you mind describing anywhere to buy the resistors needed for the job? Just so a guitar shop won't try and charge a crazy amount for such a small part. Also, to replace the resistors would you be able to just solder the old ones in as a replacement, or is there much more than that? Thanks again for the honesty
Anyway to get an instruct able for this and the switch. I just picked one up dirt cheap and it needs the 1st jack redone. I was thinking the caps might be a good idea too. Thanks
amcrebelfan No instruct-able but it's not that hard to figure out if you know how to work on amps. If you don't know how to safely work on amps then I'd recommend having a tech do it. If you want to learn how to work on amps let me know and I'll direct you to some good books to get started with.
what can cause the crackling sound, almost like a bad cable connection but only when the guitar volume goes up
The video also applies to the Hot Rod Deville, Blues Jr., Blues Deluxe, and pretty much any modern Fender amp. (Unless it's handwired on a turret board all modern Fenders are essentially garbage straight from the factory.)
There are certainly engineering flaws, and cut-corners in the Hot Rod series amps, but i wouldn't go so far as to say that they're garbage straight off the line.
You are right, I do like to exaggerate a bit. It's not like they're completely useless, but they could be SO much better if maybe just one or two people at Fender actually cared enough to at least buy decent filter caps.
I take that back, they're all fucking garbage, every last one of 'em.
*****
I just bought one of these and the very first day the channel wont change anymore.. Im fucking pissed. Bill do you reccomend any other amp with as nice of a clean channel for around the same price of about 700
This comment is only here because the UA-cam comment section is weird and hard to use.
"I fix more of these than pretty much any other amp. Period."
That's because they're one of the MOST popular and most used amps.
That is very true. I think the price point might have something to do with that.
@@GuitarBillCurran Yeah for the price, it's amazing that other amp makers don't try to get in on that market. It's clearly underserved. I almost thought of buying one, but decided to wait and pony up a little more cash for a silverface DR. I really could've gone either way, but everyone said the DR would have better build quality.
one bad solder joint on the 3 leg led channel lit wil cause it as well, plus even bad solder joints on the pilot light, ive got 20 years modding n repairing these, free mod, if ya want a slitly dirty clean channel, but want a OD channel to tell grandkids about, jumper cathode #1 of V1 to #1 cathode V2............could go to a 12ay on v1, or a 12dw on v2 ta dial it in..od is INSANE ............dont even need red channel,, yellow is amp blowing up sound.. :) i dig the f&t filter caps as well..
straight to the point. my man!
yea, I try not to beat around the bush
These amps are solid. BUT the mass production cheap PCB will fail. Got tired of them and bought a handwired deluxe reverb that is beyond amazing
Exactly correct! Congrats on the new handwired amp! That's as good as it gets!
1. How much do these upgrades usually cost (parts and labor)?
2. What do you think of the amp once these common issues have been rectified?
Fender knows better than to build an amp like this. I don’t get what their rationale is. Reliability is what makes any mechanical device an icon, whether it be a car, an applicance, or a guitar amp. What possible end goal could they have to save $20 of component cost at the expense of a bad reputation? I’ve been designing and building computers and audio equipment all my life. Every single time, without exception, I have worked with a manufacturer who cuts corners like this, they have paid a serious price in the marketplace. All the components can last a lifetime if they choose carefully.
IC (Illinois) caps are fine. Not sure what you are basing your conclusions of them being "crap". I've removed them from many an amp where they had been performing steady for years and years. I've also used many of their film caps for repair and restorations with zero issues.
sunnycap947 Hey man, I wanted to answer your comment before I look like too huge of an asshole. I have been building up a studio to do some much better videos with good audio and all that. I'm planning on doing some FAQ type videos to answer everyone else's questions that have been building up over the past few months since I got sick of typing. Along with more demos, reviews, lessons, and whatever else people want to see from me.
Anyway, I'm basing my conclusion on IC caps being crap on a few different things. First and foremost, I learned probably a good 85% of what I know about amps from The Ultimate Tone book series by Kevin O'Connor. In Volume 3, chapter 4, page 12, starting at the bottom of the left side of the page and continuing to the top right side he states...
"Any of the '-con' names are good (lists various brands). However, we must specifically warn against Illinois Caps, as their quality is very poor. You get what you pay for in this case." -Kevin O'Connor TUT3 Pg.4-12
The only part of that I disagree with is the "get what you pay for" part. I can get the Nichicon caps I like (that I used in the amp in this video) cheaper than I can get the ICs, so in my opinion, you get less than what you pay for.
My second reason is that I see them bubbling and leaking more often than not, even in amps that are fairly new, before the 10 year mark.
The third reason my opinion of them is so low is that whenever I replace ICs with any other brand, the amp immediately sounds better, more punchy and dynamic, and quieter on the noise floor. This even goes for "good" ICs that aren't leaking or showing any signs of needing to be changed, even in brand new amps. My customers can tell the difference too.
I've only heard of one other person using and liking them so far, and that was just recently through Facebook. I was trying to be nice but the dude got torn apart in the comments by some other amp guys. So I'll say the same thing to you that I said to him...Hey man, if they're working for you, and you and your customers like them, then cool, go for it!
I am only talking really about their electrolytic, I haven't had much experience with their metalized film caps, but so far I don't think there's anything really wrong with those (other than that I'm really into "true" film and foil caps and try to stay away from all metalized film, mostly out of my personal OCD, they sound and work fine though).
Thanks for the comment man, take it easy!
sunnycap947 IC caps have poor tolerances. Where they start leaking after several years, Sprague and F&T replacements last easily twice as long. Less trips to the bench means a happy and consistent client. Simple.
Would any of this have anything to do with American made Fender amps specifically Pro Tube Twins. Mines O.K. Not great. BUT VERY LOUD. Pretty funny when a Marshall guy asks if I can turn down an amp that's only on 6. Half stack compared to a Twin.
Well as far as I know every fender amp that isn't a hand wired model uses those terrible Illinois filter caps that imo should be replaced as soon as you carry it out of the store. If you want to try to cut down the headroom and make it a bit quieter you could always pull 2 of the power tubes, usually the outside pair. I haven't seen a schematic of that particular amp so maybe talk to a local amp tech about it and see if it will work in yours.
@@GuitarBillCurran You are extremely right about 2 outside tubes. It's in the owners pamphlet and its still loud. I'm talking to some expert here in Ft Lauderdale who works on a lot of pros problems usually when they are on tour. He knows a lot about these kinda things. It ain't gonna be cheap,but I figured we would do something about the shitty sound of the 2nd channels gain. The clean is great especially for pedal platform. The clean channel also has a lo-fi gain that is acceptable. All in all I always wanted a Twin and this is a monster. Sounds so good with my Led Paul even w/o pedals.
Enjoyed your video. My HRD has acquired a horrible buzzing sound even with nothing plugged in. A friend told me it was the tubes so I replaced them with Ruby Tubes and that hasn't fixed it. Any thoughts on what I should check next?
Hmm, sounds like a grounding problem, it could also be the filter caps. I'd check the input jack first, sometime the switching connections (on the jack) get bent out too far and won't close to ground when nothing's plugged in. Also if it was replaced with a metal one you have ground connections at the beginning of the amp if they didn't remove the green wire inside.
Hi Bill, great video, great channel. I know I'm years behind but I have an issue with my '94 Fender blues DeVille. Got it second hand with these issues. When I bought it I knew the reverb pot had a problem, the shaft underneath the plastic dial moves up and down. Maybe a new pot is all it needs? The bigger issue I think though which relates to this video is that while the volume, bright switch and tone knobs all function, the Drive switch, presence and reverb all do nothing when it's on and you turn the knobs. Also the master doesn't respond, not sure if it's a separate thing or it is because the others don't work. Nothing obvious when I open it that is wrong but I'm wondering if this is what I should be looking at as I can't afford to pay a huge service bill for it. Any feedback would be much appreciated. Thanks!
hey man, cool vid!!! i wish you lived in England!! my hrd iii has no reverb at all at the moment, just a crackly splash when i rock the amp, and it also makes a buzzing sound when im playing a low bassy note even on a really low volume. have you ever come across this problem before?
Thanks man! I haven't had to work on any of the new HRDIIIs yet, I'm not sure if they have the same problems or not. I'd check the reverb tank first, sometimes the tiny wires on the jack come un-soldered. As for the buzzing it is probably the filter caps, or possibly the speaker.
Hello Bill, I have a American made HRD. On the clean channel it gets distorted if I turn it up past 2. The speaker seems to be fine.
Bill, thank for you advice.
any suggestion to avoid this kind of problems?
Did fender use the same cheap parts on the original devilles from the 90's? Or just the newer reissue ones. I know tubes mounted to a PCB is never a good idea, but was curious about the other components.
I really don't understand the popularity of these amps, besides the price.
I was in a band where the other guitarist had an HRD. The clean volume went from unusable thin low volume to too loud with no in-between sweet spot. The overdrive channel sounded like shit. And even though he had a high-end G&L guitar, the 60hz hum was more than annoying. At that time I played through an early reissue Marshall Mkll Super Lead & one 4x12 cab, and it was him who got compaints from club mgt. and sound techs about his volume & tone. I switched to a Fender '65 reissue Twin in 2009 and haven't regretted it once.
My hrdx 3 has this issue lately when i play the 6th & 5th strings both are sounding with bad frecuencies. .what causes that?
Sounds like it could be really bad filter caps, but I would also check all of the ribbon cables for cold solders and loose connections. Before anything else try cleaning out both FX loop jacks really good, and then maybe swap around the pre amp tubes and see if it gets any better/worse/different.
@@GuitarBillCurran I will give it a shot on what I would be able to do with your advice. .thanks
Hey Bill, thank you for this video. Switching out the filter caps asap. I'm still having a serious issue with the amp though. Basically my Hot Rod is rattling like crazy when we turn it up and play certain frequencies through it. It's not really an issue live but we are trying to record in our homemade studio booth and we're picking up the rattle on takes. I've checked the interior, tightened every screw and made sure it wasn't the tubes rattling. Based on my research I think I'm concluding that it may just be the cabinet itself. Are there any other conclusions you may draw that could be causing the rattle other than a broken cabinet?
You find the same issue on the deville? Mine is cutting into the drive channel intermittently while I’m playing on the clean channel.
Yes, I've seen problems like that across the whole Hot Rod/Blues series.
My HRD is blowing fuses... after the amp is on for 3-5 mins, the sounds get cloudy and fizzles hot, and the tube blows.... then there is no sound, and I notice the tubes are super hot... What do you think could be the problem?
get the bias checked
I've got this amp arriving today in the limited lacquered tweed. Most appreciative of the heads up so I'll be on the lookout. I've got a warranty on it so should I just not worry about it at this point or say "screw 'em" and take care of it now to be proactive?
Well if you have the warranty and don't want to void it I would say probably don't touch it and if it starts acting funny before the warranty is up send it back.
had a guy bring me one of these the other day. he wanted the master volume pot swapped with the bass tone pot. trying to smooth out the dial so it doesn't jump in volume from 2 to 3. i noticed the 5w resistors burning the board, and also there is some power issue that is causing the jewel light to dim when it's played. didn't seem to affect anything thing else. you ever have an amp with this problem?
OK, so what is the GOOD cap to replace the bad cap with? and the Resistors? Why didn't you mention that? Most folks, who point out a problem, follows up with the solution.
You seem to know your stuff, good vid. Can you tell me if there is a way and what I would need to replace to upgrade my HRD to the sound of a HRD3 for the "Tighter Overdrive?"
I can't really tell you any one specific thing, the entire Drive channel pretty much would need to be re-designed and re-built.
Thanks Bill. I really appreciate your time and expertise. I wont be purchasing another one. Do you recommend any Fender Amps. I have ORANGE , marshall, Vox , and have never seen this occur.
Orange is generally built pretty well, the old Marshalls are fine, the new ones are as bad as Fender, Vox is actually built really well these days but I personally never liked the sound. I really don't recommend any Fender amps past 1985, and even that's pushing it. Unless you get one of their outrageously priced hand wired amps, but if you're gonna spend that much anyway might as well get a nice boutique amp, or just the real actual vintage Fender which is probably a better deal anyway. It's tough man, it really gets me down.
OR REALIZE THAT THESE ISSUES ARE NOT A BIG DEAL FOR THE PRICE POINT..TELL ME A BETTER CLEAN TUBE AMP THAT YOU CAN BUY WORKING FOR 300 PUT 100 INTO IT TO FIX THESE ISSUES PLUS THE FUCKED LINEAR TAPER VOLUME POT...OLD MESA,NOPE..RIVERA,NOPE BUGERA,LOL ...YOU CANT...HELL STICK A KINGSLEY SQUIRE PREAMP IN THE LOOP AND IT WILL LITERALLY COMPETE WITH ANYTHING..THESE ARE PERFECTLY NAMED HOT ROD..JUST LIKE OUR OLD MUSCLE CARS WE HAVE ANOTHER ENGINE ON THE STAND...IF YOU WANT TO PLAY YOU GOTTA PAY,EITHER PONY UP FOR THE BOUTIQUE OR HAVE A COUPLE OLD ONES FOR PARTS.....
Thanks for this very informative video, Bill!
I wonder if Fender has upgraded these 'weak areas' in the new Hot Rod IV Series. Any one know?
I sure hope so, I've only learned of the HRD IV tonight! III didn't last long, they didn't fix anything with that one, just made it even cheaper.
Hi Bill, I really enjoy your videos! I have a HRDiii that I just retubed with matched JJ's that I biased to 70mv. It now sounds kind of flat. Also noticed the back panel is very warm to the touch and it smells hot. Any advise on what to trouble shoot and what would cause the excessive heat?
Hey Bill! Great video! The drive channel on my Hot Rod Deluxe is not working and the same goes for the reverb. Strange thing is, the "more drive" channel works perfectly. I suspect the resistors you were talking about in the video need to be replaced. How do I do that and where can I get new ones?
For switching problems I always look at the foot switch jack itself first. Even if you don't use the foot switch the jack can get dirty or even broken and start causing all kinds of funky problems like that. If cleaning it our really good with plastics safe contact cleaner doesn't fix it then I would do those resistors and ALL of the electrolytic capacitors, and maybe even that jack, at least check it out while you have the amp apart. Between all of that the problem should be taken care of and the amp benefits overall from having it all done. As far as doing it yourself you need to be really, REALLY good at soldering and de-soldering boards with tiny thin copper traces, not to mention the high voltage danger and all of that stuff. I would recommend taking the amp to a good local amp tech, tell him what's up, show him this video and this comment, and he should be able to take care of it.
HELP!! I've got a 4x10 Hot Rod Deville that screeches when I play certain notes, or even as I'm turning off the standby switch. Most everything I've seen relates to switching the power tubes, but this video makes me think otherwise. I'm not the most well-versed when it comes to messing with anything on the circuit board, so I'll leave that to you geniuses. Any ideas based off of my brief description??
Please give us a link to where we can get the replacement resistors that you have on there.
No problem, here's a link for 360ohms at 7watts, but that site has pretty much any value you need, caps too! www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/vishay-beyschlag-draloric-bc-components/AC07000003600JAC00/596806
Thanks so much, dude
Hey, thanks for the info. I have a HRDIV that I recently picked up. Would it be worthwhile to replace the components you highlighted preventatively or just wait until there are issues? If so, what brands do you recommend for the components, and does changing components change the tone? Lastly, would installing a case fan on the back help with overheating without causing other issues?
Can you please tell me the part numbers for those 3? I am having that exact issue with mine.
I have a fender blue deluxe with volume on 10.You hear low volume. What can it be?
I'm having problems with my HRD crackling and popping when I hit certain notes, it does it when the volume is up a little, it had groove tubes in it, I replaced them with JJ tubes. It has better tone but still has the problem. Any suggestions would be appreciated!
If it's just certain notes it could be a loose wire that resonates with those frequencies. It could also just be the filter caps.
Hi Bob, thanks for the video. I'm having a problem with my Deville Amp's box resistors you mention at the 1 min mark. One of my resistor's connection has broke from the board. Do you know if a soldering can be attempted at the break from the back of the amp without having to take out the circuit board? Any help appreciated, thanks!
Hi Bill , I’ve have an issue with my Hot Rod Deville that I hope you can give me some advice.
Background: I installed the upgrade kit that basically replaced all the caps ,resistors , input jacks and volume pot that are poor quality from Fender. I’ve sure you familiar with that kit. The odd issue with this amp I have to replace the pre amp tubes because they will start to crackle. I’ve replaced the first preamp tube at least 4 times for the same problem (within 3 years). I used a microscope to solder and re-solder all joints on the main PCB and tube PCB. The last tube replacement the crackling was caused from a defective post amp tube. This occurred 1 month one ago. Again I replaced all the tubes in the amp.
Present day issue: I’ve noticing that on low frequencies from my guitar I’m beginning to hear a crackle. It only last for a few seconds but I can reproduce the issue. I’m also a fairly decent tech. So if you tell me to make measurements with a scope or other devices that is not a problem. Because I’ve had to replace so many preamp tubes in a short period (3 years) , I think I have another issue that is the true root cause. I’m really gun shy of using this amp at a gig but it’s my only chose. I don’t run the amp much over 4 on the clean channel.
Where would you start looking? I’ve done the tapping on all joints and tubes and using the freeze mist to isolate a defective part or joint. I’ve found none. I’ve measured all the voltages I could find on the schematic and all were in tolerance.
Thanks in advance for any assistance
Ron Caramella Hey Bill / Ron....any chance you found out what was causing this? I have a similar or at least I think it's a similar issue, whereas noise or "distortion" is making it onto my clean channel. I would almost call it "crackling," but if I turn the amp up loud enough and strum normally, it sounds like fuzz. With the clean channel selected, the presence and drive impact that "crackle" but the master volume has no impact. Have also changed the tubes, checked for cold/dry solders and replaced caps with an upgrade kit and no change. I was thinking this had to do with the switching until today, when I had the clean channel volume on 0 and strummed a few chords and sound made it through....very loud, crappy sounds. Any thoughts or suggestions short of taking it into the shop? Thanks guys!
I have the exact same problem with my Blues deluxe reissue. Put the upgrade kit in it and patted myself on the back. Sounded sweet for the first month, then last night there was a crackling accompanied by sound dropping in and out, and now today the clean channel sounds like a really crappy distortion channel. So I traded out the V1 12ax7 GT for an old mesa 12ax7 I had lying around, and voila, problem solved. Until that tube burns out too. If you found an answer, I'd be happy to learn it. Thanks for posting this info, btw. Otherwise, I'd have thought I screwed up on the kit install somehow.
Ug. I spoke too soon. Ten minutes later and it's reverted back to crappola.
The problem was the 6L6 power tubes - guess they're on their way out. GT soviet made. I'll replace em with JJs
I have the George benson hot rod deluxe, and have a problem with fairly quiet but annoying hum, even when there's no guitar plugged in. This isn't to bad live unless I turn it too loud, but for recording, the mic pics up all the humming! Any idea what the problem could be? Thanks
+Youfour rayman That could be any number of things, I think, but one of the first things I would try in order to solve this would be to clean the tube sockets with contact cleaner. To do this, unplug the amp, remove each tube (noting the positions where you removed them) and spray the pins with contact cleaner. Then take each tube and insert it and pull it out a few times in its own tube socket and then re-install the tubes as normal. A lot of times dust or dirt can accumulate inside the amp and get into the tube sockets, causing a less than desirable connection and this procedure cleans up the sockets. Also, if your tubes are old (1-2 years old, depending on use), I would recommend changing them out and before installing the new tubes, perform the socket cleaning procedure with the new ones instead. Of course, you'll have to re-bias the amp if you're installing new power amp tubes and if you're unfamiliar with that, you should take it to a qualified amp technician (who would perform the socket cleaning procedure too as part of the new tube install--hopefully). You can also clean out the input jacks with contact cleaner by spraying your guitar cable plug and inserting and removing it a few times in each of the jacks. I'm just a hobbyist when it comes to amp repair but these are things you can do yourself before you go spending money to take it to a tech who will most likely end up doing these as part of their troubleshooting anyhow. If it's anything more than a tube issue, you're better off having someone look at it in person. I hope this helps.
Thanks for the video Bill, my deville has just burned these resistors, I can only seem to find 10W 330ohm replacements, can you recommend any UK suppliers of 7W replacements
10W will work great if you can make them fit. I don't really know of UK distributors but I'm pretty sure Digikey.com will ship pretty much anywhere.
So, here in the UK, Farnell stock a variety of 7W 330 ohm resistors. Bill, can you confirm what voltage they should be too, please? I think 500V is probably correct, but the range available goes from 200V to 750V. Thanks, Bill!
i have the use version recently released this year its the new hot rod deluxe with celestion speaker made here in the usa that has a lot of these kinks worked out ive had my amp for a couple months now pretty new to me but all around great gigging amp! is this the mexican made amp?
Hey Bill, what's the replacement resistor needed for the R97 part (right under the foot switch jacks)? HDR service manual says that resistor is rated at 1.2L? What is that?
That one on my schematic says it's a 1.2k 2w. I would probably replace it with a 1.2k 3w+ wirewound, and make sure to leave a good air gap between the part and the board.
Bill can I use a wire wound heat sinked resistors in place of the original 5W ceramic box resistors ??? thx Scott
+Talon Scott Chrystopher Yes, and I usually bump the power rating up to 7w too.
I'm having a problem with the input 2. when I plug in a guitar lead it won't work but when I move it around. it works but I have to hold the guitar lead at a angle for it to work. what could be wrong
Thank u. How hard is to replace the two capacitors? And what's the parts # for those. Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions
No problem man. It is kinda of a bitch replacing the resistors and caps, you have to take the entire board off and pretty much take the amp apart completely. Then you have very carefully remove the old parts without destroying the ridiculously thin traces. I change the resistors to 330ohm - 360ohm 7W wirewound. For the caps just get the same values but the best brand you can get. I might recommend bringing it to a tech because it is a big and aggravating job.
+Bill Curran that's out of my range.
Good info , I will open mine and check those points . I am mainly a Marshall guy , so bear with me , since you seem to be well versed on the HRD I will ask if you have done the 12AT7/AY7 preamp mod and what what thoughts were on it .
***** I'm way more of a Marshall guy, I actually really hate the HRD and all modern F-der amps. The real reason I know so much about them is that I end up fixing so many of them because they're one of the most popular amps ever, and they're built terribly. I haven't personally tried one with a 12AT7 but it won't hurt anything to give it a shot, you'll get less gain out of the pre-amp for each one put in. Try every combination you can make and see what you like the best. I know they sound great for harp in Blues Jrs.
***** Thanks Bill , I'll give it a shot and let you know the results .
Great Video! Thank You.
+allegedlytrue Thank you!
Great video. Wondering if anyone can help me. I gig with master channel (gain) on approx 4.5. The clean volume goes from quiet, to ridiculously loud between 1 & 2. I have to use microscopic adjustments to get the right volume e.g tapping the knob very lightly from 1 to about 1.5, but never above 2, it's way too loud. Surely this is not right?
+Platriani Thank you! I think a lot of people swap out that volume pot for an audio taper one of the same value. If that doesn't do the trick you might be able to stick like a 10k resistor after it in series, you'll have to turn it a little past where you normally would but it should let you adjust it a bit more subtly. I have the same problem with my JCM800 but have just been dealing with it the old fashioned way.
+Platriani you can just use attenuator... here for reference: www.premierguitar.com/articles/Quiet_Please_Attenuators_and_Their_Many_Uses
Have done more testing, when I knocked on every tube, each tube gave me the crackling sound. Does that mean each tube needs replacing?
I just had my R85 & 86 resistors swapped out and now my bass and mid controls don’t work, my treble controls the volume, and the amp won’t switch between clean and drive. Any ideas how to troubleshoot this?
Awesome video! Quick question. I have a Blues deluxe, turned on the lead channel and cranked it up. As soon as I started to play, heard a few little pops and noises, now they amp is extremely dirty sounding. If ai have it on 4 on the clean channel it sounds fine, but right as soon as it hits 5 it sounds like I kicked on an overdrive pedal. Swapped out speakers and checked the bias on the tubes and they are both fine? Any idea?
Hmm, did you check the pre-amp tubes? probably the 2nd one is for the dirt channel. Could also be due to the cheap ribbon cables, sometimes they act funny. The thing I always go back to and it usually works, or at least leads me to the real problem, is getting rid of the cheap Illinois filter caps and putting in some fresh, high-quality caps from almost any other manufacturer.
Bill Curran I checked the continuity of the tubes. But im sure it wont tell me the whole issue. I am ordering thr supreme mod kit for the amp nrxt week along with all new tubes.
Yea, unless you have a tube tester it's pretty much hit or miss. You could swap the tubes around and see if the clean channel dies when the 2nd tube is swapped with the first. But if you got the kit and new tubes anyway you should be all set. I keep meaning to set-up and sell a kit too, but I know there's plenty already available.
Where are these kits that are available everywhere???
Really, where???
Bill, I have a HRD and I am experiencing a hum/buzz through effects loop, Pre Amp Out and Power Amp In. I am strongly thinking it might be a problem with the resistors since I ran the pedals in front of the amp without hum/buzz, and I even jumped a guitar cable to the Pre Amp Out and Power Amp In which had a hum/buzz, if NOTHING is connected through Effect Loop (Pre Amp Out and Power Amp In) there is NO noise, hum or buzz. Can you please advised.
+Mario Rosales Well I would start by blasting some plastic safe contact cleaner in both of those jacks and plugging a cable in and out a bunch of time. If that doesn't work then I would probably go through and do those resistors and all the caps.
Thanks Bill, I did the Contact Clean spray and it work just a bit. However, there still is a hum/buzz but not as loud. I also checked the back panel of the amp to see if there was a burnt out resistor but no burnt resistor. I guess I'll have to change out the resistors still. By the way, I am using Boss pedals, awaiting to hear back from them if these pedals should be run on the front of the amp instead through effects loop.
I get a crackling and dropping out on the clean channel of my HRDiii, but only when it's been played at gig/practice volume for an hour or so. The drive channel seems unaffected, as does going straight into the Power Amp in. It's been in the shop 3 times for the same repair, which seems to fix it for a few weeks, only for the problem to gradually return.
Does this sound like it's likely to be the same parts at fault which are in this video?
My HRD that I've owned for over 10 years is now making this hideously loud hissy, crackling type noise after being in use for just over a few minutes... It's bad, I have to essentially turn it off, so it's not a hum, but a dissonant crackle as if something is heating up and causing havoc in the circuitry. Any idea what this could be?
Well first I would check/replace/bias the tubes, then clean all of the pots and jacks, especially the FX Loop jacks (PreAmp Out, Pwr. Amp In). Those two are switching jacks that face straight up so dust can get in there and cause all sorts of weirdness. If that doesn't solve it follow the instructions in the video. If the amp is 10 years old I would definitely recommend at least replacing all of the electrolytic caps.
Hi Bill I have a HRD Bluesman yea I know still an HRD bought it second hand nice amp good sound but have a couple of issues 1st when higher volumes loud humming noise & also volume works only for the clean channel & the master only works for the drive side I thought these controls worked together on both sides or is this the way this amp works ?? I dont know as Ive never had a HRD before any Ideas if not ?? Thanks for any info
PS,
Do you know where i can get a good Image showing where all the wires plug onto the boards mainly from the back left hand view?
A young guy had this amp first & I am afraid that he may have plugged a few in the wrong spot ... Mostly the Red wires, White, Brown & Black wires!!
Please !!!
Thanks !!
DEv
Hi bill, your video is great. I will need your help. I have a hot rod deluxe iii and suddenly it lost the 90% of the volume for a while and then it works fine again. Is it something serious? I am think that even if i take it to a technician he could not found what is going wrong because the problem appears barely.
Well, first I'd check out all the tubes, could be as simple as a tube that's going down. If not that then I'd look around for a loose connection, jiggle some wires around and see if you can replicate the problem. If nothing then I always go for changing all the filter caps and the other mods I mentioned. If it still doesn't work go back to jiggling wires now that you know the tubes and caps are good.
Finally it were faulty the two of the three preamp tubes, thanks for your advices
The channel select on my Deville cuts in nd out when I turn it on and volume has been going up and down, any ideas what could be going on? seems lik the pre amp socket might be bad.
SnowyDestroyer If the volume is going up and down my first guess would be the filter capacitors, and definitely check out those resistors that I talked about in the video. Also make sure to clean out the footswitch and fx loop jacks as good as you can with good contact cleaner. That is all assuming it's not just a bad tube.
If you take the tubes out and tilt the amp back you should be able to see the metal pin contacts in the tube sockets. If any hole is missing one, or it falls out when you take out the tube, then that is definitely the problem.
Hello Bill, I was planning to get me a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe III, but I am not so sure now after watching your video. I like to hear from you if these issues have been adressed with the Deluxe III?
+Michiel1972 Hey, good question, but no, they didn't fix much, the III was designed to be an even cheaper version. They may have fixed the value of those switching supply resistors, but it's still full of garbage IC caps, like all modern F-ders. IMO it's worth even less than the older ones that at least had real chrome on the control panel.
I got a question for you, my uncles a tech so hes gonna service my hot rod here soon, its a good sounding amp, and nothing seems too wrong with it, Just making sure the parts are right like in this video, But my problem I am having is there is a slight distorted signal sound almost only when I play my lower strings through the clean channel of this amp, even if the volume is on two, and its not the speaker, because I plugged it into a 412 cab, and the low a and e strings still had a slight buzz more so depending on what guitar im using. Definitely not the speaker, but its a weird noise, other than that the amp is good
That is probably those filter capacitors. When they start dying you lose definition in the bass and clarity in the treble, if they get bad enough, and it sounds like they are, they will start doing funny stuff like that, usually starting in the bass frequencies.
Thanks man, I had a hint of a feeling that was it. The treble still sound 'ok' so far, but good thing I'm taking it in soon to get them replaced! thanks again, I appreciate it!
*****
Hi Bill. thanks for the effort you put into this video much appreciated. I have a similar issue to Jebus000001 whereby the clean channel sound is distorted and buzzing particularly on the base strings. (It sounds more like the drive channel than the clean channel). I have none of that sensational clean channel sound that I hear people rave about for this amp. I have the HRD 3 which is maybe 4 years old. Did this model have the same issues as the previous model. I have had the back off and had a look at the Electrolytic filter caps and the two 5Watt 470 Ohm resistors. From what I can see the Electrolytic filter caps to replace are C31 (47uF/500V), C33 (22uF/500V), C35 (22uF/500V), C36 (22uF/500V), the two 470 Ohm/5 Watt Resistors R78 & R79 and the 1.2K / 2 Watt on the far left (although not sure what that does). Can you confirm that this sounds right to you. Hopefully if that's right and I do the mod I may get to hear that amazing clean channel sound for the first time.
Hola! I have a HRD3 and I played it for about 4 months before a terribly random "popping" sound occurred. It only happens when I play through it, just put brand new power tubes in as well. Is it a problem with preamp or what? Any suggestions?
bill I actually just 5 mins ago replaced the fuse turned it on it had power but a loud Humm then blew again I did it a second time same thing.so so.thing is blowing the fuse
Hi I have horrible pop sound in my HRD II when i strum very hard any string of my guitar, could be the caps? if yes, What type of caps do you recomend?
I like Nichicon PW series, F&T are good too if you want to go with the old school axial thing. Gotta check out those resistors too.
Strange i have a peavy jsx that does that "random switching" when i first turn it on (lets say im on ultra chan it will do the crunch chan light and ultra than switch too the ultra chain i have on) really weird problem im going to be learning electronics next month hopefully :)
+XxdartvaderxX I'm not super familiar with that amp, but I know some switching amps will cycle through the selections when you power it up, and then settle on whatever you have pre-set. The HRD isn't one of those amps, but the JSX might be.
Is there a reason why after about an hour of playing, the volume of the amp will shoot up? An hour into my last gig, the amp got waaay loud. Rolled it to just about 1.5 and it was still killer. Had to lower level on my pedal. Thanks
That's weird, could be one of the power tubes is bad and is going in and
out. Or it could be a short that gets knocked back together once in a
while, but it could also be a cap problem.