Is a New Demon Difficulty Coming Soon? | Geometry Dash 2.2
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- Опубліковано 31 лип 2024
- BACK WITH ANOTHER GEOMETRY DASH VIDEO! This topic has been discussed before but I felt like giving my take on it especially now in 2.2. In this video I discuss as many talking points I could think of, both for what this difficulty could improve in the game, what it won't be able to fix, how it should be implemented, and a few extra changes to the demon system as a whole. Enjoy!
All level IDs are in the bottom left corner when they appear on screen. Some pieces of gameplay footage are spliced together with start positions just to let you know.
MORE CONTENT FROM ME:
TWITTER/X: / headinmyclouds_
TIKTOK: / headinmyclouds
Chapters:
0:00 The rising skill ceiling
1:10 The problem at hand
2:57 Solutions
3:48 What the solutions can't fix
6:30 How to implement & Extra changes
Music Used:
Underwater Neon - Alterna (Splatoon 3), Shellfie - Chirpy Chips (Splatoon), Meeting the New Squidbeak Splatoon - Alterna (Splatoon 3)
#geometrydash - Ігри
Grandpa demon
Yes
Buff Demon
Daddy demon😩😩😩😩😩
Final Boss , Corrupt demon , dark demon , Impossible demon buffed demon and silent demon : BRUH
@@archishmandhiman2234what about harder demon final extremest no demon
The real issue is the gap between Auto and Easy.
honestly true
Lol
and the gap between insane and easy demon
fax, you literally go from zero clicks to more than one! so infinitely times more clicks in an easy level than an auto level
@@MemePiano69 Not even more than one, you just upgrade a full one click. Still a massive skill gap lol
The demon subdifficulties are determined by the community. This means that if enough people feel like it, a demon could get upgraded/downgraded.
this too
Yeah he didn’t even know this. Crazy that he made a whole video about it and didn’t even understand what he was saying
I think it would be a lot better to grade levels that only on the mainlist or maybe top 150 Ultimate Demon
Yeah, most people still don't know this
@@CreeperSilauabsolutely, there should be a list demon difficulty, and maybe even seperates for main list and extended.
It kinda crazy how cataclysm is the same difficulty as acheron and tidal wave according to the game
tidal wave is the same difficulty as xstep according to the game
edit: you get the same amount of mana orbs from beating auto play area then from VSC
Cataclysm, bloodbath, the lightning road, the nightmare, there are so many examples of levels that are to historic to get downgraded
Remember, you get more stars beating clutterfunk than Acheron
💀@@CubeCereal
@@CubeCereal 💀💀💀
One thing to note is Rob only rates a level to be demon difficulty, the community votes on whether its an easy demon, hard demon, etc.
Which is why adding one more star to each difficulty tier may not be possible as it changes somewhat drastically. Although I do prefer it for levels that already have an established demon tier placement for a long time, like Death Moon being a 10⭐, Ultra Violence as an 11⭐, Nine Circles as 12⭐, Windy Landscape as 13⭐, and Bloodbath being a permanent extreme with 14 stars (although, as mentioned, it'd be bad for ICDX that will remain as a 10 star simply because the difficulty tier often changes).
Thats how it used to work, nowadays th3 mods rate demons and they decide difficulties
@@v5hr1keYeah but 10 is for Easy Demons and ICDX is obviously no easier than Insane Demon
@@oxaniswait wtf,??? So then why does it let us vote?
A geode mod called "Grandpa Demon" tries to fix this problem! It adds 5 new difficulties which are all harder then extreme, and ranks levels based off of demon list placement.
it’s AREDL placement but yeah it’s fire i love ir
does rthe mod exist in android32
Don’t you mean six or
yeah @@Locx-ej5ud
"grandpa demon" i love it
2:25 To my knowledge, the community is the one who downgrades and upgrades the difficulty of demons by the in-game "Rate Demon" button. So, if an extreme demon gets downgraded to an insane, enough people have voted for the level to become an insane demon.
Yep that is true.
Which could suck because a certain part of the community might just band together and downgrade it out of hatred for the level.
(I mean, that depends on how many votes the level has already received)
@@dj_qdh When arcturus first got rated, some people grouped up, and for a couple of minutes the level was an easy demon
@@rahj0 If I may ask, what for?
@@dj_qdh Idk
0:26 congregation jumpscare
We *NEED* the grandpa demon in-game. 🔥🔥🔥 It's been too long now.
This video was great, I liked how it talked about the pros and cons of having a new demon difficulty. The one issue with different demon difficulties having different star rewards is that demons (especially new ones) can always change difficulty. This would mean players who beat demons early or at a certain time period would have an advantage since every freshly rated demon starts off as a hard demon. Then if a player would for example beat a hard demon only for it to be downgraded to a medium demon, would that player lose stars?
Overall great video keep it up.
Simple solution: get rid of the stupid community voting system, make it so that only Robtop and/or the moderators can choose a demon difficulty, and then set the decided rating in stone (cannot be changed again).
An idea I’ve heard thrown around when this discussion is brought up is making different tiers of extreme demons. A level like Acu would be "Tier 1", and the tier would keep increasing as you get into harder and harder extremes. I would imagine that once you get to a level like Tidal Wave, it would be around "Tier 10". Using this system, you wouldn’t need to make a new type of demon every time the skill ceiling gets higher. For example, if the skill ceiling gets raised past levels like Acheron and Tidal wave, the levels past that would be "Tier 11".
I think it’s a pretty good idea. The only thing is that it might be hard to decide how many tiers there should be and where each tier should end.
this is already a thing actually! its a full website and its called the geometry dash demon ladder
this sounds familiar actually.. a fanmade site thingy that rates and places several tiers of different demons already does this i believe
(of course tho.. that's not an in-game thing tho.. so the game could still undergo some change idk)
(but i forgot the name of the site.. i dont think its gdpd but its something similar?)
its called the geometry dash demon ladder
@@wisteqs6644 I didn’t know about that, but that sounds pretty interesting. I might need to check that out
Different star amounts don't work because demon difficulties aren't decided by RobTop, they're decided by community votes. To be fair, mods can "send" an already rated demon for a different demon difficulty, which has much more of an impact than regular account votes, but still, many people would probably overrate demons and vote them to be higher than they should be in order to get more stars. Also, star counts would shift around constantly, as demon difficulties are constantly changing as more people in the community vote on their difficulty, so that would be weird.
Thats what I was about to say lol
you make a good point..
but it would be nice tho..
robtop could just give mods this task (like a required vote poll amongst mods or somethn requiring at least like 2-4 mods per level or somethn.. some sort of system..)
(maybe the community could also influence something in a regulated/systematic way)
@@wisteqs6644 it would still be and If we disable community votes most PPL will give a lot of hate and backlash
@@aryanrajanand1the community will have to deal with and accept that. The current system we have now is OBJECTIVELY unfair and unacceptable. It DISCOURAGES me from spending more time playing harder demons.
Simple solution: get rid of the stupid community voting system, make it so that only Robtop and/or the moderators can choose a demon difficulty, and then set the decided rating in stone (cannot be changed again).
Yeah I Agree i think rob should start looking at the demon list and like levels above bloodlust are a new era like ultimate demon of difficulty hopefully robtop notices this
I think it should b like every top 150 demons not bloodlust
Even if he adds a new difficulty, rob isn't the one deciding which ones are going there
5:49
My man.. You CANNOT say that 💀
5:50 or 5:51
i have an interesting concept for demons too, crowned demons, basically, the top 1 demon would get a crown on its difficulty until it is dethroned by a harder extreme demon, and the crowns would become a new collectible that shows players how many top-1s they have completed.
my ideas to stop hacking is this,
you need to have over 10,000 attempts.
over 90% on practice mode.
and the level cannot be beaten under 30 seconds.
perhaps a time limit too to avoid speed hacking.
good idea, but the thing to stop hacking wouldn't work and other local verification solutions that would work would result in a cat-and-mouse between hackers and robtop, which robtop can't keep up with as a solo dev, so that should be avoided. i think a crown should be only able to be rewarded by demonlist mods, since they would have to verify the completion anyways, and nobody just beats a top one without posting it (or hacking it).
I think another solution could be provided:
A curated, top 100-200 list in-game that has a new difficulty rating. This allows Extremes to have a varying range of difficulties, while still recognizing the hardest Extremes separately from the rest. This would make Extreme demons a plateau that players have to climb before beating the hardest levels in the game, without creating a cascade effect on the lower demon ratings. Having a smaller curated list would also make it easier to manage the ratings of these hardest levels, while not downgrading people's achievements.
Overall great video!
I feel like instead of having an entire new difficulty, there should be a sort of label to it (like the epic/featured ratings) for top 100, 50, 10, and top 1. Like the top 1 is a normal extreme demon but, mabye, it has an effect around it, or the triangle on its forehead is glowing or something
I feel like these solutions, including giving demon difficulties extra stars, just try to solve a bigger problem without addressing the root cause. It's like sweeping dust under the rug. It is still there.
In my opinion, what would work a lot better is a system where players can add levels they beat to a list on their profile where they can rank their hardest levels by difficulty. This information would be fed to an algorithm that compares the opinions of different players on a level, and gives it an accurate difficulty score, even within the extreme demon difficulty. Instead of adding new difficulties, extreme demons could have some sort of little badge besides the difficulty face that shows the demon rank of the level that can change according to changes to it's difficulty compared to other extremes. (Top 1, top 10, top 50, top 100 etc). Something like this could also be expanded into working for all the demon difficulties, where players get specific amounts of demon points based on the exact difficulty of the demon they beat. Demon points would go exponentially up by difficulty to encourage beating harder levels. And regarding the stars, it really does not matter if an extreme demon gives 16 stars instead of 10. You could get the same by just doing another 6 star level. Keeping all demons at 10 stars would work fine because no one beats harder demons for the stars anyways, and the system i mentioned could already reward players for beating really difficult levels. This was a bit of an essay, but reply if you have something to add or comment :))
I love your proposed idea and the thought you put into it, but I personally care about BOTH star grinding and demon grinding, and I can’t keep up both in a practical amount of time compared to players who focus on only one of the two. As cool as the idea sounds for having ranks on the demons you beat and extra demon points, I still think it’s unfair to not reward more stars and orbs and be expected to only be satisfied with the bragging rights. 2.2 added so many achievements and icons, and they’re obviously designed to only favour the star grinders, which is extremely discouraging to me.
stars could also go up by 2, 14 star hard demons/18 star extremes... etc
I'm pretty sure they stay the same so that it can be downgraded without changing the amount of stars
then every single demon would be voted to extreme...
@@ArthurGamer20101 Simple solution: get rid of the stupid community voting system, make it so that only Robtop and/or the moderators can choose a demon difficulty, and then set the decided rating in stone (cannot be changed again).
the gap between insane and easy demon is a huge problem, also i think platformer demons should have something separate from demons, perhaps Kaizo Demons? and they could have unique designs to distinguish them.
The only issue between these difficulties is that an easy demon can't be downgraded to insane and an insane can't be upgraded to easy demon, which is why there are insanes that are harder than easy demon and viceversa
I like how I can achieve the same amount of stars on The Nightmare as I would on Acheron.
They need to add an extreme difficulty, so levels that aren’t quite insane or demon go into the extreme catagory
“Append Demon”, an extra-hard difficulty tier above Extreme Demon given to the top hardest demon level decided by community. That’s all I can come up with
hmm interesting name for a demon.. if it find what it means ill show it here via a comment update.
update: Append -just just means to add something, which ig makes sense considering it'd be considered higher than extreme
we'd actually probably need 2 or 3 more difficulties, but 1 is a good start.
If we had 2 or 3, I think acu should stay as a baseline extreme. something like phobos could be the next tier. sonic wave could be the next tier after that, then any of the top 10 demons rn could become a new difficulty once enough demons to fill the category are beaten
Normal demon.
I think a solution to the skill floor problem would be to create an entirely new category outside of the Demon naming convention. That way you can strive for beating the hardest demons and consider yourself good at the game, while the absolute most difficult levels are essentially gatekept for the top-level players (which already happens naturally due to the ridiculous skill gap between the average extreme demon completion and top level play). Maybe introduce something like the Silent difficulty, completely separate from Demons as a whole.
My thought is to keep the current demon ratings, but make extreme demons have sub difficulties. My thought is to have 1-5 star extremes.
Levels like Acu, Misty mountains and other easy extremes would be 1 star extremes
Bloodbath would be a 3 star extreme
Levels like sonic wave up to the current extended list would be a 4 star extremes
Levels on the main list would be 5 star extremes.
This could possibly be done with the other demon difficulties if needed. What do y'all think?
I feel like 1 star just doesn’t justify the jump to another demon. Here is my ranking:
Easy Demon: 10-13 stars
Medium Demon: 14-17 stars
Hard Demon: 18-22 stars
Insane Demon: 23-28 stars
Extreme Demon (it ramps up here) 29-35 stars
Ultimate Demon 36-46 stars
(My comprise for a undeniably hardest Demon)
Top 50 Demon: 50-100 Stars. (#1 is 100 stars, #3 is 98 stars, you get it.)
the list has no connection to the game however. better to have it in tiers
@@MemePiano69 True.
I was thinking something similar; however, I think your numbers are a bit too far. Here’s my version:
Easy: 10
Medium: 11 (+1*)
Hard: 13 (+2*)
Insane: 16 (+3*)
Extreme: 20 (+4*)
Supreme: 25 (+5*)
Notice the increasing addition pattern that managed to fit nicely there?
Let’s not forget the orbs though. It will take FOREVER to buy all of the current 2.2 stuff in the stores, and this change would be extremely helpful to players like me who care about both star grinding AND demon grinding!
Easy: 500
Medium: 575 (+75)
Hard: 675 (+100)
Insane: 800 (+125)
Extreme: 1 000 (+200)
Supreme: 1 350 (+350)
Couldn’t fit an increase pattern as nicely there though.
Demon grinding shouldnt be a way to earn orbs and stars. There needs to be another reward locked behind demons
@@MemePiano69 I strongly disagree with disregarding demons as an alternative means of earning stars and orbs. At the end of the day, at the core they are still difficulty rankings just like Easy - Insane are, and should thus be treated consistently as such.
I agree with the idea of an extra separate reward, and so I think there should be both an extra separate reward plus the extra stars and orbs.
I remember sitting in class and checking the demons list to see bloodlust got verified and rated. I’ve gone all the way through high school since then, unreal. Been a part of the community for 9 years now lol
Note: As of 2.2, you get the same amount of stars for beating cataclysm and A TOP 1 DEMON.
You get more stars from retray that you get from beating tidal wave (which isnt rated)
Rather than adding a new demon difficulty, one way to balance out the skill gap could be to add a new "Extreme" difficulty above Insane and move every demon level down a difficulty, or perhaps add a "Harder Demon" so that the regular and demon difficulties are more in-line with each other.
Then you're under mining people's achievements. It'd suck to beat a insane demon, then the next day, have a "harder" demon. Same with if you beat Acu, and it was then classified as insane demon.
I think that there should be a new sort of thing you can obtain in the game maybe like a crown or a jewel or gem of some sort that every time you beat an extreme demon you get a certain amount of these items. You get more for the harder the extreme demon is.
For example maybe if you beat Acu you get 1 or 2 of these and if you beat something like AA then maybe you get 10 or 15 then if you beat something like Firework you get 100. There wouldn’t be a cutoff for how many of these items you get but I think this would be a fun idea to get this debacle figured out. I think it should be also voted on by the mods, the verifier, as well as some victors.
What do you guys think?
I feel we should do something like celeste they just have GM, GM+1, GM+2 etc so we could have ultimate, ultimate+1 etc and keep the difficulty creep going without downgrading anything
great video, btw RobTop GET ON THIS!!!!!
5:04 me: *middle finger
What
7:36 i think robtop said he plans on changing it, in someway
I honestly think this would motivate me. as of right now, ive hit this plateau where I could beat a harder demon, but theres no drive because I know exactly what the outcome is going to be. Beat it, feel accomplished for like a week, then go grind something else and lose motivation again.
A couple of things already have been mentioned but would just like to bring some visibility to them:
Having different star counts for different levels of demon would be extremely bad because of the dynamic nature of demon rates and how they can change over time. This would lead to star counts going up and down constantly, which would be very frustrating and dissatisfying to see a different number of stars everytime you log into the game. Secondly, the reason something like this was never implemented in the first place is likely an artifact of the pre-2.1 era, before easy/medium/hard/insane/extreme were real ratings. Way better to just keep all the demons at 10 stars than have people gain a few hundred or a few thousand stars in the update to 2.1. In fact, the difficulty spread was way worse than it is even now because both The Nightmare and Sonic Wave were just rated "Demon" and there was no way to sort between them using menu search. So I think the spread between Acheron and Acu is not quite that bad, relatively. Also, it should matter even less that harder demons provide the same amount of stars now that there's a way to see demon stats on your GD profile. Beating higher difficulty levels at least provides you the bragging rights and the sense of accomplishment, and I don't think getting 15 stars for an extreme vs 10 really would make that much of a difference in terms of if you actually wanted to beat it or not.
Going back to the dynamic demon rating system, it's a common misconception that Robtop is the one changing demon difficulties and I don't know where this misconception comes from. It's purely calculated based on the averages of the community votes.
Also, not important but was Crimson Clutter ever actually an extreme demon? I never remember that happening lol
Simple solution to the star changing: get rid of the stupid community voting system, make it so that only Robtop and/or the moderators can choose a demon difficulty, and then set the decided rating in stone (cannot be changed again).
Also, I strongly disagree with the notion that I should just be satisfied with having beaten the harder demons or shown them off on my stats. I care about BOTH demon grinding AND star grinding, and the current system stuffs a big fat middle finger in the faces of players like me. I want to unlock the game achievements and icons and also beat harder demons, but when you look at how LONG it will take to unlock the star-related achievements, earn enough orbs to buy what I want in the new shops, and earn enough demon keys in a REALISTIC period of time? Maintaining both playstyles is completely impractical and extremely discouraging for me. I sometimes exhaust myself of boredom having to constantly beat easier levels just to unlock what I want because the game ONLY rewards and validates star grinding. The assumption that no demon grinders care about stats is wrong.
@@TheInsane104 The only way to make grinding harder demons efficient for star grinding would be if Extreme Demons were like 50 or 100 or 200 stars. The 10-15 star system proposed in this video would not solve the issue because its probably not worth the extra effort to grind a medium demon for an 11th star when an easy demon can be done reasonably faster.
I don't understand where you got the notion that I think demon grinders don't care about stats. I have 3000 demons and 80000 stars and I care a lot about my stats and seeing them improve over time. I guess I don't understand the issue. If you care about stars, grind Hard/Harder levels. If you care about demons, grind Easy/Medium demons. If you want the pride of beating a harder level, spend a few hours every once in a while practicing/beating an insane/extreme demon. The stars/hour and demons/hour you're able to grind is of course going to change based on what difficulty of levels you're playing, and I think that's normal and ok. Should an extreme demon award you with 10 demons just so that there's more incentive for beating a harder level? It doesn't make sense.
I guess I'm curious how you would change things so that it's more fair for the playstyle you're trying to achieve, since you didn't really say what would be a better system. Also, without the community voting system, Hypersonic would still be an Insane Demon and ICDX would still be an extreme demon. The view of difficulty of certain demons evolves over time, and the community voting system is probably the best way to make sure demon rankings accurately reflect the current view of the larger community.
@@scottm7310 I forgot to specify that the reason I brought my side up in the first place was because I cannot, as you suggested, spend day after day boring the life and soul out of me grinding through non-demons for the stargrinding part. I do not enjoy all of those levels because they are getting too easy for me to enjoy the challenge, and if I keep pushing myself along this route my brain will go numb from mindlessly playing Hard after Insane after Harder level over and over again.
I can’t imagine why anybody would do that unless they actually enjoyed it. If hard demons truly gave everybody the extra satisfaction that is supposedly supposed to be enough to supplement the lack of stars and orbs, then it would be enough to motivate everybody to do that, which it doesn’t, and some enjoy the easier levels. Players like me don’t, but I can’t *fully* enjoy the harder demons knowing that my stats will slow down if I spend more time on them instead.
To sum it up: star grinding lacks the satisfaction, but has the tangible reward, while demon grinding lacks the reward, but has the satisfaction. Do you understand my issue?
You made a good point about 15* not being a good solution for what I’m looking for, and talking about the time/reward thing, but at this point I’m desperate enough to accept *anything* because it’s better than what we currently have.
As for your last point about solidifying demon ratings resulting in inaccurate or outdated ratings…I mean, look at the current system. The demon system itself is outdated. We’re trying to work with a system that was created in the 1.3 era, back when not a single human brain had any idea that the game would become what it is now, so of course it’s understandable why it’s so broken now. That doesn’t mean we can’t update and adapt it to better serve the current community.
Your point about ICDX staying as extreme etc…I’m okay with that. Firstly, again I’m happier with that than what we have currently. Secondly, we *already* have inaccurate ratings all over the place, demon and non-demon levels alike, and they never get changed. There are Insanes harder than Easy Demons and vice versa, yet these will never change. Famous examples like the Nightmare, TLRD, Xmas and Demons (Easy levels that should be Normal IMO) etc should come to mind. Even when Robtop tried downgrading The Nightmare to update its more accurate rating, the community backlash was so severe that he reverted it. Personally, I’m extremely disappointed in him for giving in to the pressure, but if having a more updated, fair and rewarding demon system means having to accept some inaccurate and mistakenly rated levels here and there, I’m fine with that.
Divine Demon could be a good one
THAT SOUNDS SO COOL
@@I.O_Productions Thanks :V
The way I would so it is to add a new difficulty above Extreme called List Demon, where only the demon list demons will be at. I also think adding a difficulty between Insane and Extreme is really bad, mainly, using the phrase I beat an extreme demon is quite shocking and an amazing achievement, by adding one in between, the phrase would become even better, but less achievable, making it overall die out, and it would be quite sad.
Also, why only upgrade by 1 star, I say incrementing the amount of stars by much more will be better, RN Star grinding is mainly on easy levels between the 4 and 7 stars, making the Time-Star the most efficient as you 1 or 2 attempt the level.
By making mediums give 15, hard 30, insane 60, extreme 100 and List 200 (aprox on all of them, no testing has been done), you are encouraging star grinders to try and play harder levels for a high-risk high-reward, you are good, here are many more stars, you are bad, you could have gotten more bu playing easier levels
my idea is put a color somewhere on the level info that indicates how hard the extreme is, so we don't need extra dofficulties
Personally I think we’d need Atleast 4 new demon difficulties to balance out the extremes. Just me tho
hmmm In my opinion just splitting extreme demon into easy extreme and hard extreme would be fine
My new demons:
Ultimate demon: top 300s - top 150s
Ferocious demon: top 150s - top 75s
Crazy demon: top 75s - top 20s
Nightmare demon: top 20s - future top 1s
@@Jaczkkthat’s just way too extra ngl, we only really need 1 new demon rating which should be above extreme because like the video says, some extremes are WAY harder than others
@@stracocas well I just wanted to fill the gaps since with even 1 new demon difficulty it would be unbalanced
@@Jaczkk imo: the new tiers should be
extreme: acu (as a baseline)
Next tier: phobos
Next tier: sonic wave
Next tier: top 20s
I agree with the other guy, being that the list you have is probably too narrow
ok we DEFINITELY need grandpa demon it's REALLY important
🙏
yess
Harder demon and extreme are good 😊😊
@@ToysRUsRocksAmazonnoyes
bro summoned an entire fandom with the music
I think your solution with the new category following list demons would be best to be implemented, as that would take pressure/energy off RobTop to upkeep. I've always thought the community should play a more avid role in ranking levels instead of just one person, and that would be a wonderful way to slowly start giving the community that ability.
Like I'd seriously be surprised if Rob didn't get exhausted having to constantly rank levels again and again, incorporating the community into the ranking system wouldn't only be easier for Rob, but an excellent way to give the community more of a say when it comes to level rankings. Geometry Dash is a community game, afterall.
(you know what game really does community rankings well is Osu, but hey one can only wish for so much ahah)
Solution:
We need only 1 difficulty above extreme demon which wasnt exactly voted by the community, which would only have levels at the height of tidal wave and beyond to the human limit. The rest of difficulties would then start to balance between themselves until balance is eventually achieved between levels on the game.
Whats with the grandpa demon? Hacker domon? Matrix demon?? Infinite demon??? GALAXIE DEMON?!?!?
On my way to beating poltergeist after completing nine circles but there is one singular part harder than the rest the beginning of the wave especially the double saw that makes so many runs die J have practiced enough to have a shot at beating it after moving on from there
I like the idea of adding a difficulty the is dedicated to the current top Demons to really give that sense of achievement. However, a problem I see is when a demon falls out of that category, it suddenly gets downgraded to the previous demon (Extreme). A solution to this might be to also add a marker of some sort to levels that have reached tge highest difficulty at some point, so when they are downgraded, they still provide that sense of achievment in beating an incredibly hard demon, even if they are no longer in the top 100 or so. This marker also would help ensure that former Top Demons don't go unoticed as currently when a demon gets downgraded, there's no way for a player to know of the level's previous rating unless they research the level.
Hear me out... _grandpa_ demons
becoming deaf for this idea❗️❗️❗️🗣️🗣️🗣️🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
im not hearing you out 😂
robtop should add grandpa demons for april fools
@@satania1757that'd be golden..
for the golden!! (that one lvl)
grandma demon
grandpa demon plss
Yesssssss
grandma demon
It would be cool, as demon difficulty is divided in 5 sub-categories, to divide Extreme Demons as well their own 3 difficulty categories, being easiest to Bloodbath, the mid section, being Bloodbath to Bloodlust, and the hardest section of all levels that ever surpassed the once thought unreachable Bloodlust difficulty. Just an idea I came up with
Overall a pretty good video, but there are some issues with some of your suggestions. The main issue is that demon difficulties are rated by the community voting on them, meaning if there were increased rewards added to beating demons of a higher tier, then people would be incentivised to rate demons higher than they seserve, and the best way to get the most out of your time would be to rate every demon you play extreme, rendering the entire system entirely useless. RboTop won't rate the demon dfficulties either because he can't play at a high enough level to accurately determine them.
As for the system of adding another demon difficulty, there's no way to go about it that won't lead to more of the same problem later on. The hardest difficulty will always grow as players push the boundaries of what's possible, and you acknowledged this, so why even bother fixing it? The issue will just repeat itself, and disrupting the already figured out system of difficulties in the game wouldn't be great. Placing the existing levels into a new difficulty would be contreversial and nearly impossible as everyone would draw their own line as to where the difficulty starts or ends. The community has kinda established rough parameters for what makes a level a certain tier of demon, and adding a new difficulty would throw all of that out of wack and nobody would have a good idea where to draw the lines. The demon list is a good idea, but the placement of those level in of itself is already a contreversial topic, and many players hugely disagree with the placements. Letting the small group of list mods determine the difficulty parameters is a bit unfair. There is also the issue that things fall off the list that are pretty much just as difficult as the things on the lower end of it. Something that just went to legacy would realistically probably fall into the difficulty range of this proposed new difficulty.
No matter how you cut it, it's going to be messy and complicated. I think the best bet really is to just keep things as they are.
I HEAR SPLATOON MUSIC IN THE BACKGROUND
Imagine Acheron considered a easy demon
star-wise it is lol
(a 10 star just like an easy demon)
(it should really be like 32 stars or somethn higher than 10)
I think there should be a difficulty above extreme like you said and I think it should incorporate a star system that ranks the demons maybe in sets of 25 or 50 so that top 50 demons get say 30 stars, the 50 below that get 25 stars, then 20, and so on. It would give a good idea of what ranking the level was without needing to look it up every time.
i really vibe with having a new difficulty between insane and extreme, it doesn't feel like we're adding too much as were not adding a new higher demon rating, but keeping the signature extreme demon as the hardest rating
I thought rob doesn’t choose what demon difficulty a level gets..?
Isn’t it a community vote?
It is, guess he didn't know
I think top difficulty should be alot more than 16 stars for it to be worth it.
fun fact : robtop posted a tweet on twitter that shows a demon face, this might be for event levels or a new demon.
I was thinking of a demon difficulty rating called obliterator which is obligated to be XL and like top 10 difficulty throughout, or like basically almost impossible with zero breaks and really long, it also would have the icon be a half exploded or burned/scorched insane difficulty face, or extreme demon difficulty face and the burned/exploded parts all around it.
That would be impossible to be lmao
Ideas: Cakewalk demon, normal demon, medicore demon, harder demon, insaner demon, impossible demon, omega demon, demon demon
demon demon?? INSANER DEMON??? 😭
where is grandpa demon
wtf is demon demon
No this one sucks 😭
WHO watching in 2024?👇👇👇👇
uhhh everyone and stop like begging
This was made in 2024💀
@@Gdplayerbutbad oh *punches in face*
@@Gdplayerbutbadthank u
I agree that a rating or two should exist around extreme demon since its just too broad atm (Acu-Avernus is not really a good range for One difficulty) and I think a milestone level like Sonic Wave would be a perfect split at this point. But i dont like the idea of higher demons giving more stars. They've always felt more like "flavors" of demon rather than their own separate entities, like a harder vs an insane, i see them all as linked in a way and them not all giving 10* would feel wrong
7:45 i made a post about that in the GD wiki recently and here is what i suggested
10 stars goes to insane levels
11-12 is easy demon
13-14 is medium
15-16 is hard
17-18 is insane
And 19-20 is extreme
21-22 for ultimate
I think a "list demon" can be added on top of extreme demon so that the levels in the demon list can be in "list demons" and the former and future-former list demons can be still at extreme demon without affecting the other levels
splatoon 2 music makes me happy
I honestly always thought that things like the demon list ended up being a mistake
I may be biased because im more of a creator than a pro player (im actually bad lol, i just got some nine circles lvls and only cuz i wanted to force myself to learn how to play with the wave), but seeing so many levels which i would consider to be a bit bland being played a whole lot more than others just cuz the face that represents it is slightly angrier just doesnt do it to me
I think adding a new difficulty above would solve it, too, but the real solution would be the community's creators putting less time on trying to make the next top 1 and more time in learning how to avoid making blind jumps and bad transitions (And learning to make actual extreme gameplay, buffing insane gameplay makes it rlly jank)
I need to point out, this isnt an issue with the players
I get that some people love a good challenge and thats respectable
My issue is with the creators' constant chase of that oh so desired top 1, hardest mythical legendary definitive unbeatable demon status, so much work put into a level so buffed and so annoying to play that most ppl will enter, realize they cant even reach 1%, and then leave to play something else
I like the sound of ‘Unruly Demon’ for above extreme.
Idea: absurd demon difficulty for the top 75 demons on the demon list, and i have the image for it right in the profile pic
When Rob adds Ultimate Demon: Better difficulty The community: REMOVEULTIMATEDEMON BRINGRANDPADEMON!
I wouldve personally picked better examples for really hard insanes/easy extremes, as no one of my fellow extreme players say incipient is easier than crimson clutter. Something like white album, a top 10 insane demon that used to be extreme, to acu, a level many (uncluding myself) consider insane. I agree 100% with the star increase, but idk how implementing a harder difficulty than extreme would work since rob doesnt endorse the demonlist whatsoever, as well as it being subjective, so idk if that would ever work. Cool to think about tho
I always thought if there being a separate demon rating for top 100
the one harder than extreme should be called supreme demon, it just feels better
i was thinking that a difficulty above exteme demon could be legendary demon as reference to silent club/bloodlust (can't remember which did what)
and I think there would be an entirely new classification, the silent difficulties, again, as reference to silent levels, with there being easy silent, medium silent, hard silent, insane silent (insert intense silent here), extreme silent (insert ultimate/legendary silent here)
Great vid
I have 80% on cataclysm and have dreamt about beating an extreme for nearly a decade at this point. It would be really sad to see it dropped to an insane before I complete it. However, if a new difficulty would be added, I wouldn’t feel as bad, as it is still a difficulty above insane demon where my current hardest is.
We definitely do need a new one
I feel like there should be tags that note how many frame perfect inputs are required and other stuff like that which indicate difficulty in their own right... idk just an idea
We need to have an "Extreme" difficulty in between Insane and Easy Demon for some levels that are in between (like electrodynamix)
1:43 I have always known Crimson Clutter as an insane demon and I play since late 1.9, idk about the other one. I think I remember the other one being called a very easy extreme demon if it is the level I think it is.
what if a new harder difficulty was only levels in the top 200 demon list! considering it is a credible choice, it would be a ever changing difficulty so as you said it would have alot of downgrades, but it still would be cool to see a collaboration with robtop and the demon list team, and mayby a special featured rank for the top 1
there are so many people with different skill sets hence making some levels easier for others while most average players would call it the original former difficulty i feel like because there is no way the furious and theory of firepower are hard demons imo but to top players they’re prolly even easier so i think a new difficulty would honestly be great cuz that would solve a lot of level’s getting “easier”
if a demon difficulty was being added, i would just ask for a list demon difficulty, and a way to sort them by difficulty that would be interesting
I thought about it few monthes ago, and it would be cool to have "legendary demon" as the new hardest difficulty (as the term is used a lot in the community and sounds great) and, again, a new hardest difficulty, which would be "list demon" where these are the top, idk, 100 ? 50 ? 10 ? current hardest demon in the game
edit: [Summary]:
its just, a score or number system (based on systematic community voting, ) that helps define a level's difficulty more precisely than that of "difficulty faces"
imma just condense somethings i've thought about.
How about a concept called "Difficulty Points" ?
It's a separate score/number-based thing from the "Difficulty Faces", and robtop doesn't necessarily need to be involved in determining a level's "Difficulty Points".
"Difficulty Points" allows an extra sense/layer of level difficulty comparisons that ideally goes deeper or more precise than the
"Difficulty Faces"
The benefit to "Difficulty Points" would be that people finally have a way to tell apart easy extremes from top-extremes (in-game before playing the levels).
It would also help you see whether that 9 star insane you've been playing is actually deemed harder than that 10 star easy demon you played last week (but this is just an example).
Hypothetically/Ideally, a level with 2x more "Difficulty Points" than another level could be deemed 2x harder.
I think that the way "Difficulty Points" for a level could be determined could utilize a particular method of community votes (this would be so that "Difficulty Points" can be more reliable)
or
it could just use community votes in-general similar to how the demon-ratings work now.
In order to be able to compare different "easy-rated" levels to each other,
i would likely make the general "Difficulty Points" range for "easy-rated" levels from [1-5]
(with the average/middle for "easy-rated" levels being at '3')
i have a previous comment under this very video talking more about this stuff but yeah..
I personally think there could be some benefit to it..
Also i guess if its necessary
"Difficulty Points" could be reduced in letters down to "Diff. Pts" in-game but yeah
below this comment, for convenience, i will copy+paste my previous relevant comment
i have some ideas mate:
several..
difficulty points concept:
pts (aka points) are a general estimation of sorts.. in reality.. somethings rated at a "higher difficulty" could probably have less difficulty pts than something of a "lower difficulty" due to the "more difficult lvl" actually being deemed easier
example: the nightmare (10 star demon) vs most any modern 9 star
auto (1 star) [0 pts] [plus maybe a separate technical difficulty for coins or completion of something within auto levels or levels in general possibly]
easy (2 star) [1-5 pts]
normal (3 star) [6-10 pts]
hard (4 star) [11-15 pts]
hard (5 star) [16-20 pts]
hard (6 star) [21-25 pts]
harder (7 star) [26-30 pts]
insane (9 star) [31-35 pts]
easy demon (10-11 star) [36-45 pts]
medium demon (12-13 star)
[46-55 pts]
hard demon (14-16 star) [56-70 pts]
insane demon (17-20 star)
[71-90 pts]
extreme demon (21-32 star)
[91-150+ pts]
{possibility:
ez-extreme [91-100 pts]
med-extreme [101-110 pts]
hard-extreme [111-120 pts]
harder-extreme [121-130 pts]
insane-extreme [131-140 pts]
supreme-extreme [141-150 pts]
inhumane-extremes [151+ pts]
(inhumane-extremes are currently some of the top-most extremes plus some currently unverified.. even more difficult.. future top extremes)
}
In reality, i would hope that the concept of difficulty points could be set via a mix of mod votes and/or general popular votes and/or verified/certified account votes (as a counter to hackers-votes) and/or a voters kinds of vote (people likely with experience elected and/or entrusted to vote what they believe a lvls difficulty points are)
The same difficulty faces could share a common range of difficulty points, but.. assuming difficulty points are still a seperate thing from difficulty faces.. , there's still a possibility that a certain lvl could have more difficulty pts than another "rated lvl deemed more easy than it" .. ideally i think that a lvl with twice more difficulty points than another should be considered twice as difficult.. so my previous estimations on pts were really just generalizations/estimations.
Also my estimations beyond insane demon.. ie the ones for the extreme demons and its different types of extremes.. is just a possibility of suggested values within the singular "extreme demon difficulty"
realistically if difficulty points are to be comparable multiplicatively like i said prior.. then top extremes are probably definitively more than 100x harder than some 3 or 4 star levels -- or at least.. i would assume so...
(so yeah.. again.. the pts were a generalization, they may need community tweaks to determine the ranges of pts across different difficulties)
The stars i included were also just simply suggested stars for demons, because i suppose i do agree.. that harder demons should receive more stars.. particularly involving all demon faces.
About my sub-categories of extreme demons:
so i was thinking that perhaps with difficulty points.. one could generally get a better glimpse in comparative difficulty across different levels
but i was also thinking the same thing for a sub-category of difficulties being added to extreme demons.. that way people can still say they beat extremes, while also being able to tell apart more easily the different leagues of extreme demons. The sub-categorization could possibly have an extra visual detail/indicator indicating its sub-category difficulty for the extreme demons.
Another idea could be that the comment section could have different added parts/sections dedicated to certain things.. to help the player understand stuff (maybe level's comments could contain gameplay difficulty stats and review.. robtop could encourage this with some rewards/achievements. Plus perhaps the reliability of those comments could be rated in an attempt to balance/manage things.
Key factor in difficulty points: what i possibly like about the concept of "difficulty points" is that.. even if things in general get harder in gd.. and things get downgraded in face difficulty ratings.. they could still keep the same "difficulty points" such that if you were to come back after a long break 5 years later.. you'd still be able to tell.. somewhat.. how the difficulty of a past previous level compares to the new levels you find
i also felt it was important to start the generalization of difficulty pts on easy with a range of [1-5], because i want all levels of all types of face difficulties to be able to be compared to each other (ie. im pretty sure even some "easy" levels are harder than others "easy" levels and vise versa)
I think the easiest way to fix this is do what is done for hard, harder and insane levels with the 4 and 5 star hard levels and the 6 and 7 star harder levels as well as the 8 and 9 star insane levels.
Have 10 star extremes and then maybe 15 or so for hard extremes
It’s simple and effective solution.
And if a demon is too easy perhaps downgrade it’s star count before stripping its status of extreme (of course if it’s difficult enough to warrant that in the first place)
A third solution can be a bit of both:
Two difficulties above extreme and one between extreme and insane called an ‘intense demon.’ The difficulty right above extreme would have all the harder extremes and be called ‘ultimate demon’ similarly to what the video suggests, but the difficulty above ultimate should be called a ‘SILENT demon’ and have levels like silent circles that are impossible for 240hz but very difficult on 360hz.
The silent demon is optional but silent circles should at least be rated above the ‘harder’ difficulty.
I think the only solution to this is to add the ultimate demon difficulty, upgrade EVERY level in the top 150 to ultimate demon, any demon that gets added to the top 150 becomes an ultimate demon, and that even if levels fall off the top 150 they're still ultimate demon. Now tell me that this isn't a genius idea
There should be a thing called Auto Demon so if I'm correct an Auto Demon level basically moves for you meaning that you don't have to do anything but click only orbs as late, early or as frame by frame as possible. and that could help you earn demons more frequently but obviously you wont earn anything but stars since its an Auto level.
edit: [Summary]:
its just, a score or number system (based on systematic community voting, ) that helps define a level's difficulty more precisely than that of "difficulty faces"
i have some ideas mate:
several..
difficulty points concept:
pts (aka points) are a general estimation of sorts.. in reality.. somethings rated at a "higher difficulty" could probably have less difficulty pts than something of a "lower difficulty" due to the "more difficult lvl" actually being deemed easier
example: the nightmare (10 star demon) vs most any modern 9 star
auto (1 star) [0 pts] [plus maybe a separate technical difficulty for coins or completion of something within auto levels or levels in general possibly]
easy (2 star) [1-5 pts]
normal (3 star) [6-10 pts]
hard (4 star) [11-15 pts]
hard (5 star) [16-20 pts]
hard (6 star) [21-25 pts]
harder (7 star) [26-30 pts]
insane (9 star) [31-35 pts]
easy demon (10-11 star) [36-45 pts]
medium demon (12-13 star)
[46-55 pts]
hard demon (14-16 star) [56-70 pts]
insane demon (17-20 star)
[71-90 pts]
extreme demon (21-32 star)
[91-150+ pts]
{possibility:
ez-extreme [91-100 pts]
med-extreme [101-110 pts]
hard-extreme [111-120 pts]
harder-extreme [121-130 pts]
insane-extreme [131-140 pts]
supreme-extreme [141-150 pts]
inhumane-extremes [151+ pts]
(inhumane-extremes are currently some of the top-most extremes plus some currently unverified.. even more difficult.. future top extremes)
}
In reality, i would hope that the concept of difficulty points could be set via a mix of mod votes and/or general popular votes and/or verified/certified account votes (as a counter to hackers-votes) and/or a voters kinds of vote (people likely with experience elected and/or entrusted to vote what they believe a lvls difficulty points are)
The same difficulty faces could share a common range of difficulty points, but.. assuming difficulty points are still a seperate thing from difficulty faces.. , there's still a possibility that a certain lvl could have more difficulty pts than another "rated lvl deemed more easy than it" .. ideally i think that a lvl with twice more difficulty points than another should be considered twice as difficult.. so my previous estimations on pts were really just generalizations/estimations.
Also my estimations beyond insane demon.. ie the ones for the extreme demons and its different types of extremes.. is just a possibility of suggested values within the singular "extreme demon difficulty"
realistically if difficulty points are to be comparable multiplicatively like i said prior.. then top extremes are probably definitively more than 100x harder than some 3 or 4 star levels -- or at least.. i would assume so...
(so yeah.. again.. the pts were a generalization, they may need community tweaks to determine the ranges of pts across different difficulties)
The stars i included were also just simply suggested stars for demons, because i suppose i do agree.. that harder demons should receive more stars.. particularly involving all demon faces.
About my sub-categories of extreme demons:
so i was thinking that perhaps with difficulty points.. one could generally get a better glimpse in comparative difficulty across different levels
but i was also thinking the same thing for a sub-category of difficulties being added to extreme demons.. that way people can still say they beat extremes, while also being able to tell apart more easily the different leagues of extreme demons. The sub-categorization could possibly have an extra visual detail/indicator indicating its sub-category difficulty for the extreme demons.
Another idea could be that the comment section could have different added parts/sections dedicated to certain things.. to help the player understand stuff (maybe level's comments could contain gameplay difficulty stats and review.. robtop could encourage this with some rewards/achievements. Plus perhaps the reliability of those comments could be rated in an attempt to balance/manage things.
Key factor in difficulty points: what i possibly like about the concept of "difficulty points" is that.. even if things in general get harder in gd.. and things get downgraded in face difficulty ratings.. they could still keep the same "difficulty points" such that if you were to come back after a long break 5 years later.. you'd still be able to tell.. somewhat.. how the difficulty of a past previous level compares to the new levels you find
i also felt it was important to start the generalization of difficulty pts on easy with a range of [1-5], because i want all levels of all types of face difficulties to be able to be compared to each other (ie. im pretty sure even some "easy" levels are harder than others "easy" levels and vise versa)
Dawg I’m not gonna read this 12 page essay
If its come it must be "list demon" difficulty and it must be used for TOP 150 Demons
If we talk about visual it can be the gray demon face at the end of "Death Moon"
I think the difficulty system could do with an overhaul. Perhaps adding an automatic difficulty calculator like OSU would work. But it would have to be a lot more complicated than OSU's version due to gameplay differences.
I like the idea
I think there should be a new demon difficulty which is kinda an extreme demon subdifficulty, not decided by the community, and only given to the top 10 or so extreme demons just to separate easier extreme demons from the hardest of the hardest like Acheron and Tidal Wave. Was thinking something like top demon or ultimate demon, and the icon could just be the extreme demon face with gray skin and red eyes.
I think there should be a tier system, each tier being twice as hard as the last. The only exeption would be auto which would be tier -1 with easy being tier 0
Even with the blurr I can still see it's 'ultimate demon'
An idea that i think its better and more dynamic is to give extreme demons a "tier", something like gddl but extreme demon exclusive
1:50
My mind thinking about that avernus is going to be auto after 100 y
I said there should be a leveled demon system where harder extreme demons would be like a level 10 extreme demon and easier ones would be level 1, and there being some kind of new currency you get depending on which demon it is at what level is.
An interesting idea would be to have a new difficulty that the top 50 or 100 have. All levels that fall of the list will be rated extreme demon. That will effectively stop demon inflation