How Jonathan Blow Designs a Puzzle

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  • Опубліковано 18 січ 2025

КОМЕНТАРІ • 609

  • @NakeyJakey
    @NakeyJakey 8 років тому +932

    I still haven't gotten around to playing through The Witness, but this video really makes me want to get on that. Your content is fantastic, keep it up!

  • @tamekitty_
    @tamekitty_ 8 років тому +515

    This video reminded me of something Alan Turing says in Computing Machinery and Intelligence:
    "The view that machines cannot give rise to surprises is due, I believe, to a fallacy to which philosophers and mathematicians are particularly subject. This is the assumption that as soon as a fact is presented to a mind all consequences of that fact spring into the mind simultaneously with it. It is a very useful assumption under many circumstances, but one too easily forgets that it is false."
    We often fool ourselves when we think that we fully understand a concept and its implications. What Blow seems to be doing here is letting the player see that they didn't fully understand the implications and consequences of a seemingly simple gameplay mechanic.
    Great video. Wonderful stuff here.

    • @stevencraeynest7729
      @stevencraeynest7729 8 років тому +19

      That's actually very well put.

    • @Bspammer
      @Bspammer 7 років тому +21

      Pretty smart, that Turing guy. I wonder if he ever did anything important :P

    • @gustavowadaslopes2479
      @gustavowadaslopes2479 7 років тому +2

      Check "The Imitation Game". His work was really important.

    • @negromancer.2685
      @negromancer.2685 6 років тому

      In short, game design is oh so fascinating!

    • @adamschlinker972
      @adamschlinker972 6 років тому +1

      Awesome quote!

  • @maathatter
    @maathatter 8 років тому +592

    Your level of professionalism in the process of making these videos are simply inspiring and incredible. Keep up the good work!

    • @waterandtreefilms
      @waterandtreefilms 8 років тому +18

      Very quickly becoming the best channel for game developers.

    • @LemonadeFox_
      @LemonadeFox_ 4 роки тому +1

      Well he was a game magazine editor iirc, P/s I know this was 4 years ago but why not.

  • @Sir_Duckyweather
    @Sir_Duckyweather 7 років тому +33

    I remember a couple of times in Braid where I simply could NOT figure out a puzzle I was stuck on. But something unique happened in this game that I've never experienced in another. Every time I got stuck, I took a break and fired up the game the next day. Then, almost immediately, I would solve the puzzle with ease. It's like the answer was there the whole time, I just needed to refresh my perspective to see it.

    • @puzzleparty7713
      @puzzleparty7713 7 місяців тому +1

      Same thing with me!! However, I didn't even know about the secret puzzles until recently. I don't think I ever would have solved those (or even found them!) on my own.

  • @FerousFolly
    @FerousFolly 7 років тому +48

    A friend and I sat down and played through the witness in a few play sessions over a couple of days. One of my favourite puzzle games of all time.
    I totally get what you mean when you compare the phrases "I understand" and "I figured it out".
    The vast and complex mechanics of the witness allow for so much satisfaction when you master a new mechanic. You just don't get that feeling in other games.

  • @azurmarlinW
    @azurmarlinW 8 років тому +152

    Jonathan Blow should make games teaching physics, maths, chemistry and biology.
    His practice of making harder puzzles that exhibit edge-cases after the easier ones just to make sure the player really understood the solution and didn't just come up with a similar solution that just works in this one case is great.
    I wish more curricula and tests would take this approach.

    • @ShredST
      @ShredST 8 років тому +39

      Jon Blow has actually mentioned that he's very interested in making educational games, possibly about physics. I'd be very excited if he ever decides to make them. The Witness is pretty much the best teaching material I've ever seen.

    • @Viewsk8
      @Viewsk8 4 роки тому +8

      He is an excellent instructor

    • @Paul-to1nb
      @Paul-to1nb Рік тому

      I agree an education game by Jonathan Blow would be incredible. If only he'd actually focus on games instead of programming languages and engines.

  • @Levi-ug1fb
    @Levi-ug1fb 2 роки тому +14

    I think this video and Blow himself do a miraculous job at illustrating a beautiful creative process, and also the only time someone has perfectly described why I've always thought this game was so cool. The idea of "I Understand" was so fulfilling at several points and felt eye opening for the next puzzle only to be taken aback by a new and challenging perspective to grasp. I lost motivation to beat the game awhile back but I think I'm gonna give it another go :)

  • @snomangaming
    @snomangaming 8 років тому +393

    It's so crazy to me because I didn't enjoy most of my time with The Witness, and yet I kept playing it for 28 hours. Something kept me coming back for more, and I think it had to do with what I knew of Jonathan Blow from Braid. I knew there was more to it than originally met the eye. And while I can still say I'm disappointed with the turnout as far as story elements or any plot goes, I can absolutely appreciate the depth of the puzzles. I am totally willing to admit that they were just too smart for me haha! I'm glad you explored Braid quite a bit here tho, it was nice to see the similarities, because at first glace they seemed totally different. Great work as always Mark :) And nice choice of music for the beginning ;)

    • @CurtisJensenGames
      @CurtisJensenGames 5 років тому +2

      Dude, it’s so cool seeing you comment on videos! I’m like: ITS SNOWMAN!!

    • @stephenkamenar
      @stephenkamenar 3 роки тому +1

      lmao @ story and plot in games

    • @zumabbar
      @zumabbar 3 роки тому +1

      just glad that Mark didn't use the music used for The Challenge in The Witness. Would've given a lot of this video viewers instant PTSD lol

  • @fifth_elephant
    @fifth_elephant 8 років тому +77

    I make levels for my favourite games and I often find that I throw any preconceived designs out the window at some point, this is especially true when that idea sucks when I put it into action. Usually the monsters and mechanics of a game will dictate what I create and how a level looks, and it's always good to continually play and refine your levels to iterate at every step to maximise the fun.
    I know a lot of people who make things in this way. To the point where your game or level feels like it is creating itself and you are the instrument that the universe is using in order to bring the creation into existence. I know how insane that sounds but some levels I have made have been done in large parts in an almost trance-like state and I barely remember the creation process at all.

    • @GMTK
      @GMTK  8 років тому +23

      +FifthElephant that's an awesome way to describe it, thanks for sharing

    • @duncanwilson5262
      @duncanwilson5262 8 років тому +7

      +FifthElephant I know what you mean, my best level design work always happens when the levels are all informed by the dynamics in my games.

    • @quinndepatten4442
      @quinndepatten4442 3 роки тому +2

      Thats not insane. Thats beautiful and profound.

  • @mothersbasement
    @mothersbasement 8 років тому +105

    excellent video. I need to make an episode analyzing this game's level design at some point

    • @Salmakatory
      @Salmakatory 4 роки тому +4

      Well?

    • @wulfherecyning1282
      @wulfherecyning1282 4 роки тому +5

      @@Salmakatory He's a lazy guy and there isn't much room in the basement

    • @n0ccca
      @n0ccca 4 роки тому

      Surreal seeing surprise MB here 😅

    • @TeamTimeRiders
      @TeamTimeRiders 4 роки тому +2

      No you don’t.

  • @CGshurita
    @CGshurita 8 років тому +47

    One of the best channels out there about game design. Great work!

    • @GMTK
      @GMTK  8 років тому +5

      +Ramon Ignacio Bunge Thanks Ramon!

  • @WritingOnGames
    @WritingOnGames 8 років тому +224

    Mark, you're the goddamn best.

    • @GMTK
      @GMTK  8 років тому +51

      +Writing on Games aw jeez that's nice

    • @ethanotoroculus1060
      @ethanotoroculus1060 7 років тому +4

      Personally I consider Quinton Reviews to be "the best", but this person is damn fine too.

    • @thebombspayloadisexposed
      @thebombspayloadisexposed 3 роки тому

      And I'm the goddamn Batman.

  • @Marcunio88
    @Marcunio88 8 років тому +15

    I was just thinking earlier, wouldn't it be great if there was something like Every Frame a Painting for games. Then I remembered this show exists. Good stuff!

  • @aceman1858
    @aceman1858 8 років тому +1

    I love seeing your videos pop up in my subscriber box! The extra effort you put in to each video really shows in the final product, you do a wonderful job presenting your concept, articulating how it functions and concluding it in a way that feels clear and satisfying, with very tasteful editing throughout. I hope you are able to continue this channel for a long time. I may not be a game designer but I'm absolutely fascinated with any form of design (I'm a graphic designer) and since I have been addicted to games since I was 4 I love having ideas like this presented for me to ruminate on, and search for in my favorite games.
    Thank you Mark, you do a wonderful job!

  • @Marlo_Branco
    @Marlo_Branco Рік тому +2

    The Witness is still one of my favorite game ever.
    This game blew me away. An gaming experience that deeply impacted me .
    Thank you Jonathan Blow

  • @HeavyEyed
    @HeavyEyed 8 років тому +17

    Great breakdown on Blow's process, I always wondered how he sculpted his games the way he does and now it makes Braid and even more so - The Witness, make much more sense in the way they function. Although I'm not a huge fan of the witness, I can appreciate what it does and how it teaches the player its rules through environments and hidden clues.

  • @ahmz1404
    @ahmz1404 8 років тому +133

    Braid and The Witness are 2 of my favourite puzzle games, ever, no surprise they're made by the same person.

    • @karibui494
      @karibui494 8 років тому +9

      +Deborah Meltrozo It's a game about discover and knowledge, and the real game have nothing to do with the first panels you encounter at the start.

    • @SebLeCaribou
      @SebLeCaribou 8 років тому +4

      +Pretty Pretty Pretty Good Though I agree on the level of refinement that The Witness has for its puzzles (or to be clearer, for the mechanics, not really the puzzles themself), I must admit, the quantity just killed the game for me. I managed to solve something like 300 puzzles (enough to get in the mountain, but without touching anything inside) and I just stopped there, seing that I actually wasn't having an engaging experience for several hours.
      The worst thing about it is that I love watching all these videos about Blow's vision (even when focused on The Witness that was a bad experience for me) and I think Braid is one of the best game I ever played, in terms of pure game-design. There was an elegance to the way the mechanics were presented, and even when I was struggling with a mechanic (the one where you rewind when you run back just killed my brain) I felt engaged in the game, because I knew that I had to let my brain go into "the zone" and that I wouldn't be playing the game tens of hours. It felt more organic in the process of solving it too.
      The Witness, at least for me, lack such elegance. It kind of brute forces the message and the mechanic onto you with the sheer number of puzzles, when most of the time, I got what it was trying to convey in the first few puzzles. At some point, I was struggling with fatigue, exhaustion, and not really the challenges of the puzzles anymore. And when I finally saw that "epiphany" again, it was when I was searching for the macro-puzzle.
      The more I think about it, the more I "hate" The Witness. But not on an ideological side (quite the opposite actually), more in a sentimental way...kind of hard to explain that feeling.

    • @WiresDawson
      @WiresDawson 7 років тому

      Brandon Cruz ... what?

    • @1996Pinocchio
      @1996Pinocchio 6 років тому

      That's a weird kind of logic.

    • @P1ranh4
      @P1ranh4 6 років тому

      FEZ is similar in many ways. Discovering more and more dimensions of the game world, learning maths and a new alphabet to solve some of the harder puzzles in the game. Jon Blow's games have more layers to this concept, but I loved FEZ for other reasons as well.

  • @likeothers4656
    @likeothers4656 5 років тому +1

    So, what you mean is that Jonathan Blow's porpouse of making a game is based on a phrase that i'm really proud to say, "a piece of art is always based on two pillars, the expression of its creator, and the interpretation of who observes it"

  • @Taaaamas
    @Taaaamas 18 днів тому +1

    Coming back to this video nearly a decade later after finally finishing The Witness
    I'd dropped it multiple times over many years, but decided to go back and 100% it without any looking up (somehow, successful in that!)
    It's genuinely one of the most fascinating games/experiences I've had, and especially great that so much it taught without a single word needing to be spoken. Just the progressions in puzzles revealing rules that have been there the whole time. I wish more people would give it a go, but it is also probably the hardest game I've ever played, lol.

  • @AsTheAuthor
    @AsTheAuthor 8 років тому +5

    I find when making a puzzle game that understanding the nature of the mechanics and the universe perfectly, then bringing the player to this level of understanding through puzzles, is a good way to go. One way to reach this understanding is by experimentation. I think The Witness being a puzzle game designed this way was very appropriate, because confronting and attempting to understand the world you're thrown into is exactly what the game is about, on all levels of its design.

  • @gabrielkwiecinskiantunes8950
    @gabrielkwiecinskiantunes8950 8 років тому +9

    Jonathan Blow's style is going to be studied for ages.

  • @ailin3604
    @ailin3604 8 років тому +1

    This video was like dream come true. Thank you so much for this analysis of Blow's work.

  • @Awesomer5696
    @Awesomer5696 4 роки тому

    ultimately I think the line "I understand" rather than "I finally figured it out" is the most potent of this whole video. It neatly sidesteps all the confusion of if a puzzle is hard or too hard or not hard enough, and just cuts right to the quick. Fantastic video.

  • @wojciechwaszak2393
    @wojciechwaszak2393 8 років тому

    Great jobs, as always. And that amazing how slightly change from "puzzles" to "communication about puzzles" can change meaning of game entirely. That show how fascinating production of games could be. Great thanks for showing me this.

  • @Myst165
    @Myst165 8 років тому +6

    Agree! Jonathan Blow's puzzles are really something special.

  • @briandecker8403
    @briandecker8403 7 років тому +4

    How Jonathan describes designing a game is very much like the way in which great authors describe crafting characters in their novels.

  • @AaronBowley
    @AaronBowley 8 років тому

    i love the intro, i JUST got into game maker studio and am having the same experience. the sprites come to life and they WANT more, they want more AI they want to be able to emote more. it's so amazing

  • @ItsAllGoodGames
    @ItsAllGoodGames 8 років тому +27

    It's like when i was making the flamethrower weapon for my game Zombie Crisp. At first I'm like "this flamethrower will shoot fire that sets zombies on fire"
    Then im like "oh shit it doesn't really make sense for the on fire zombies to not set other zombies on fire too!"
    So i made the mechanic of fire spreading from zombie to zombie and all of a sudden the game became really intense! you'd have tons of zombies on screen but you can still survive if you strategically set them on fire so that the fire spreads.
    Felt pretty awesome.

    • @metalman895
      @metalman895 8 років тому +3

      That sounds like a great twist to the traditional zombie game! You could even cut it down to just flamethrowers and have that be the zombies' only weakness. "Firemen" a la Fahrenheit 451 are called in whenever there's an infestation, and you're one of them. Now burn those corpses!

    • @ItsAllGoodGames
      @ItsAllGoodGames 8 років тому +2

      thanks, it was a happy accident lol.
      I haven't had the time to add new game modes but if u wanna try the game its free to play on Android and iPhone.
      just look up Zombie Crisp
      here's android link
      play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.iagg.zombiecrisp&hl=en
      i actually just broke 1000 lifetime downloads, pretty happy about it lol
      I haven't updated game in long time, if there's bugs or crash or something please tell me :)

    • @Gnurklesquimp
      @Gnurklesquimp 8 років тому +1

      I think a focus on AoE mechanics and that sort of stuff can be very fun in action games, especially if you can also move a lot to affect the fight

    • @kumatorahaltmanndreemurr
      @kumatorahaltmanndreemurr 4 роки тому

      I know this comment is old but I just downloaded your game on my phone, excited to try it in a bit. Setting zombie hoards on fire sounds like a good time :)

    • @ItsAllGoodGames
      @ItsAllGoodGames 4 роки тому +1

      @@kumatorahaltmanndreemurr hey thanks for trying the game.
      Its very outdated though, im gonna publish a improved version soon.

  • @ChrisKoelsch
    @ChrisKoelsch 8 років тому +64

    Say what you will about the man. He knows how to design a game

    • @ChrisKoelsch
      @ChrisKoelsch 8 років тому +12

      haha ok.

    • @float32
      @float32 7 років тому +1

      He’s been live streaming the design of another game, go check out his channel!

  • @soulstudiosmusic
    @soulstudiosmusic 8 років тому +180

    Shows braid. Plays Fez music.

  • @thatlumberjack
    @thatlumberjack 4 роки тому

    Your videos are top notch. I’m not involved in games or game design, but the concepts in your videos often overlap with other disparate areas of my life such as dating, or language-acquisition. Thanks for such great content!

  • @GodFollower10
    @GodFollower10 2 роки тому +1

    Really good video about understanding puzzles in a more profound way

  • @CiroContinisio
    @CiroContinisio 8 років тому +1

    I saw the talk you used as a reference for the initial quote, it was at GDC 2012! It was a very, very inspiring talk.

  • @Rubberman202
    @Rubberman202 Рік тому +1

    I haven't played The Witness yet, but I played Braid a long time ago (it was actually Braid's 15th anniversary recently). I remember liking the game itself, but something about the way Jonathan Blow went about talking about the game online, specifically about how players are meant to interpret the game, kind of rubbed me the wrong way.

  • @AdvancePlays
    @AdvancePlays 8 років тому +38

    I've noticed a very real problem with puzzles, in that they apparently cannot be as universally enjoyed - actually, make that "appreciated" - in the same way other game constructs can be. Dispatching of enemies, whether through jumping on them or shooting, can be appreciated and LEARNED to be appreciated specifically. Increasing some measurement, whether collecting arbitrary floating entities or completing meaningful tasks, is in the same place. Completing a puzzle appears to be a far touchier subject - perhaps it's just due to how intricate they can be, meaning there are a lot more variables to be considered, and indeed considered differently in each person. This leads me to agree wholly with your point about how a player reacts to completing a puzzle. I also agree that the greatest satisfaction is gained when you figure out the solution BEFORE you complete the puzzle, as opposed to retroactively applying whatever logic you (may or may not have) used. People are way more prone to attempting a solution that fits their pre-conceived logic - some form confirmation bias I'd guess - that they become dissatisfied with the result that doesn't match their own. This isn't a problem with something like matching a key to a door, because it's so easily noticeable that you underatand this mechanic's "solution" without much conscious thought. Because of this, I think how people react to a puzzle differs so greatly due to inherent traits in their character, and that it can't really be helped.
    I mean, this is all unscientific, anecdotal conjecture of course! But it's an interesting thing to think about.

    • @luisoncpp
      @luisoncpp 8 років тому +3

      As I understand, a puzzle is satisfying when the player learn something or understands better the game dynamics during the process.

    • @ThatsPety
      @ThatsPety 8 років тому

      I completely agree

    • @fy8798
      @fy8798 8 років тому +5

      I don't think so - I think this is more you confusing your interests with those of the whole. In fact, puzzles can also be learned, just like enjoying killing virtual enemies can - easier, in fact. A lot of people do puzzles. Dead tree stuff is dead, right? Well, over here they still sell dozens and dozens of magazines filled with puzzles. I can go to any train station, and there'll ve entire shelves filled with the stuff. Sudoku, nonogramm, all that - there's two dozen different sudoku magazines on sale on any given day, and that number is not an exaggeration. People do more gaming involving puzzles than killing, too. It's not even a contest. It's just that puzzle games are usually dismissed by younger male gamers, because it's easier to have bombastic marketing for ACTION stuff - and hence that is what movies and game companies largely push (not to mention hardware companies - you don't need great graphics for puzzles, black and white grids are often enough). SO that is what many think games are. Everything else is dismissed by a certain segment of gamers. Adventure games that were revered fifteen years ago would have droves of angry gamers screaming "walking simulator" nowadays. Don't get me wrong, liking action stuff is fine, and I enjoy my murdersprees in Grimrock 2 too. But I wouldn't ever think violence is somehow "easier" to get used to. Reality just proves that wrong. Violence is just what marketing pushes and what is easy to drive hype with.

    • @Gnurklesquimp
      @Gnurklesquimp 8 років тому

      I think it doesn't just apply to puzzle games, I'd say the more of an intended path based on preconceptions a strat game has the closer it gets to this problem.. Maybe I'm wrong haha, game design confuses me..
      I'm already seeing how if this is true, it's more nuanced than how I put it here

    • @Gnurklesquimp
      @Gnurklesquimp 8 років тому

      Even though designing based more on preconceptions does have this downside in some situations, I'd say I still much prefer it in some games and what those are trying to achieve.. The balancing of both approaches can vary a lot with great results I think

  • @philtrem
    @philtrem 6 років тому

    That first sentence/quote puts it so eloquently. I relate so much to it...

  • @AspelShuyin
    @AspelShuyin 8 років тому +19

    This is an interesting counterpoint to Super Bunnyhop's video.

  • @SoulForge
    @SoulForge 8 років тому +1

    A very good consolidation of Jonathan's design principles. Thanks for putting this together!

  • @Nazareadain
    @Nazareadain 8 років тому +15

    Now here's a game that seems to use design by subtraction because of how minimalist most elements are, yet there are elements that seem superfluous unless you see it through a different lens. And when you do that, you get holes that you need to fill for the pattern to make sense - and then the pursuit of meaning in the game when you can't seem to find them.
    It makes the structure incredibly weird but but so amusing to see people discuss because despite how binary everything in the puzzles seem - you either get it right, or you don't - everything around them is anything but.
    And that experience is part of the game. It's thematic to the game. It's what the videos are about, and the imprint the game leaves on you that causes you to find puzzles outside of the puzzles.
    The funny thing though is that people call the game pretentious for trying to put some deeper meaning into it, when - I swear to god - the only message is that people will look for meaning. Not that there is any. If you find one, you've made it, not him. Is that pretentious? Well then you've just found a different - very predictable - meaning of your own.

  • @dwaynetrawick7125
    @dwaynetrawick7125 7 років тому

    I think this is a thing that happens in a lot of creative endeavors. My wife and I are writing a novel together and we have often found that the answer to a problem in the plot comes naturally through the process of writing. I don't necessarily think this is thanks to "the universe," but to some part of the creative mind that operates subconsciously rather than consciously. Thanks for yet another great video!

  • @TheMikeMassengale
    @TheMikeMassengale 8 років тому

    I know that a large number of people like a shorter format, it would be awesome to have you do a few longer ones I often end up wishing the episode was longer, because it was so good.

  • @Dracalis
    @Dracalis 8 років тому

    I've been loving this series. It's wonderfully informative, and the music and use of motion graphics is very sleek. It really appeals to my graphic designer side. A small detail that I think could tighten your typography further would be "hanging punctuation," like with the quotation marks at the beginning. Try looking that up. Beyond that, this is all awesome. Thanks so much for making this series.

  • @Thagomizer
    @Thagomizer 8 років тому +4

    Lemmings did something very similar, with frequent revisits to previous levels that you had to solve differently. In truth, the harder versions of these levels were designed first, then the simpler ones worked back into the earlier difficulty tiers. The game was extremely well-balanced in its learning curve. It was such a rewarding experience to reach a level and think "They must have made a mistake here. There's no way to solve this." Except, of course, they didn't. And then a light bulb goes off in your head when you finally understand.

  • @killfear
    @killfear 4 роки тому +2

    8:08 - I had a similar discovery process designing 5 color mana spell points for 5th edition DnD. Once the basic premise was in place, all the actual mechanics became self-evident, I just had to make sure it was "stable coding" across all the different casting classes.

  • @adriankiel77
    @adriankiel77 8 років тому +10

    "Ironically, it sucks. MWEHEHEHE, abnoxious laughter" -Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw

  • @SETENTIAstudios
    @SETENTIAstudios 8 років тому

    I don't usually comment, but your channel is fantastic. Is a MUST watch for every aspiring game developer out there. Thanks a lot.

  • @emiliopuntoadios
    @emiliopuntoadios 5 років тому +1

    He is nowadays my favorite indie designer, his games are just perfect

  • @amnesiophilia
    @amnesiophilia 7 років тому +1

    A little strange...one of the points you make early on is that Blow's puzzles intentionally mislead you towards an obvious solution, but then you later say that there are "no or very few" red herrings.

  • @retrogamer3907
    @retrogamer3907 3 роки тому +1

    The Witness for me was and is one of the best things I ever played

  • @lyuds
    @lyuds 8 років тому

    Like a spanish game designer I really appreciate the subtitles.
    Great video, and again, thanks for the subtitles :)
    Happy I subscribe

  • @saife6783
    @saife6783 8 років тому

    Excellent video, one of your best yet I might add. It's fascinating to see what a bottom-up approach to game design can create.

  • @GermaphobeMusic
    @GermaphobeMusic 5 років тому +7

    7:22 I like that you'd only get this if you've played The Witness, while also not spoiling anything for those who haven't.

  • @SpartanWolf222
    @SpartanWolf222 7 років тому +1

    Having played The Witness for myself, highly skeptical of the idea that a game can teach you so much through so little handholding, I am amazed how thoroughly accurate and true to his words Jonathan Blow is to his game design.
    Coming back to this video after seeing it before The Witness and wondering how that was possible was like seeing something that was there all along but the answer was right there if you knew how to see it. :D

  • @MasDouc
    @MasDouc 5 років тому

    "I understand" is a beautiful way of putting it

  • @EmotionTheory
    @EmotionTheory 8 років тому

    I've been following Jonathan Blow since the release of Braid and in becoming a game developer over the last few years have always tried to employ these philosophies when it comes to designing games. It's a tougher and longer process, but a really rewarding one as a designer - and I believe as a player too. I've only managed to work on puzzle games though, so it would definitely be interesting to see this be applied to action games and the like, too. I imagine more games like Ikaruga would be born from this type of process!

  • @luisoncpp
    @luisoncpp 8 років тому

    I was in the development team of Attractio and the iterative design of the game was very similar; and yes, it's very effective to establish simple rules, playtest, discover some "hidden rules" and then use them to create puzzles.

  • @rosienroller
    @rosienroller 8 років тому +11

    I feel I'm a bit contradictory to the rest of the comments. I loved the Witness. I loved traveling through, working out the puzzles and just having a relaxing time. However, Braid, although I got its puzzles, it just never clicked for me. I was never enjoying myself solving them. I found myself just getting annoyed, a feeling I never got it the Witness (except for the "puzzles" were the challenge is not having a seizure) Just interesting how perspective can change on a game depending on the person.

    • @JazzyWaffles
      @JazzyWaffles 8 років тому +3

      I feel exactly the same! I enjoyed the Witness (which I finally played after months of avoiding it due to reviewers telling me it was bad), and did not enjoy Braid (which felt like a chore despite critical praise). The seizure puzzles near the end were garbage though. No idea what was going through Blow's head when he decided to program headache-inducing vomit puzzles into his game. :/

    • @RoboBoddicker
      @RoboBoddicker 7 років тому +2

      Weird, I felt the exact opposite. I thought Braid was absolutely brilliant, but was kinda underwhelmed by the Witness. I still enjoyed both though. To each his own... :D

    • @Changetheling
      @Changetheling 7 років тому

      Same thoughts. Probably most of people that enjoyed Braid's proposal were waiting something else for The Witness, hence the disappointing/underwhelming feeling.

    • @sgbench
      @sgbench 3 роки тому

      @@JazzyWaffles "Seizure puzzles"? I 100%-ed the game, but I'm not sure which ones you're talking about

    • @mushmashtime
      @mushmashtime Рік тому +1

      @@sgbench the screens with all the flashing grids and colors on the descent through the mountain.

  • @notoriouswhitemoth
    @notoriouswhitemoth 8 років тому +78

    key term here: "emergent properties"

  • @H0peAnL0ve
    @H0peAnL0ve 5 років тому

    Well done! The second half of this video blew my mind. You taught me so much new info

  • @dashalpha
    @dashalpha 5 років тому

    Just started The Witness a few days, oh my God, it is such a good and unique puzzle game. Didn't know til today it was designed and produced by the creator of Braid but it all makes sense now how it is so good!

  • @lndozois
    @lndozois 8 років тому

    I'm reminded of learning how to fling in Portal. Not a simple "I figured out this puzzle!" moment but a "I'm completely rethinking how this game is played!" moment.

  • @Klarden
    @Klarden 8 років тому +23

    Interesting thing - I like how Blow designs games (the idea behind it) but find both his games incredibly boring. Like - he's good at the basic idea of how to do stuff and explores it to the fullest, but it feels like it never goes beyond that idea, that concept, to become a full game. Which, I think, is what he wants to do and likes himself, so it's all fair, but it's just a shame that his games for me feel like "well, yeah, that's actually clever and cool, but I'll go and play something more interesting instead".

    • @thecommoncurator8233
      @thecommoncurator8233 8 років тому +23

      +TajRoy Calhoun After sinking a considerable amount of time into The Witness I'd say Blow is the type of designer that believes you can deliver an artistic message through a game's mechanics. It's so great because it tackles artistry in gaming from a way that art cant be approached in any other medium; an (literally) interactive conversation between the artist and the subject, without a single line of dialogue ever needing to be spoken. Amazing stuff!

    • @stevesan
      @stevesan 8 років тому +7

      if you don't find the clever and cool stuff interesting enough for their own sake, then his games just aren't for you. subjectivity and all that.

    • @Klarden
      @Klarden 8 років тому +5

      Steven An which is what I wrote, yes.

  • @philbertius
    @philbertius 8 років тому +29

    I'm not sure why, but I absolutely despised Braid when I played it. Maybe it was the gawdy aesthetic (which felt both pointless and pretentious to me.) I remember feeling frustrated by the puzzles, and never really satisfied when I solved them. At some point, the puzzles available to me felt like they weren't worth the effort, and so I quit.
    Maybe the premise of "puzzles are a way of the designer communicating with the player" wasn't working for me. Maybe the art style and frustrating-yet-unrewarding puzzles convinced me that the game was more about the designer and less about... itself. I don't know. I wish I could have enjoyed it as much as everyone else seemed to... but evidently I'm _that_ guy.

    • @peanutbuttercracker1
      @peanutbuttercracker1 8 років тому +5

      I've never played it but honestly, based solely off of what I've seen from this video, it doesn't look fun to me. And I also don't like the aesthetic. We are now both _those_ guys.

    • @philbertius
      @philbertius 8 років тому +1

      Yeah. I have to wonder if it's an issue of preconception tarnishing my enjoyment, or preconception being confirmed by gameplay. But for me, even Diablo III redeemed itself post-auction-house patch with the worst preconceptions imaginable... so I like to think I'm not so stubborn.

    • @rowtow13
      @rowtow13 8 років тому +1

      I thought it was good at first but after a few rule changes I was over it.

    • @fy8798
      @fy8798 8 років тому +16

      "pretentious"
      I never understood this complaint. Gawdy or pointless I can see (though then I'd wonder about the aesthetics of a FPS, those seem both gawdy and poinless too - it's a claim I can see made about any game, including Tetris with the russian themes), but pretentious? It's just pretty.
      You're not that guy, you just dislike a game (which is fine!).

    • @JazzyWaffles
      @JazzyWaffles 8 років тому +4

      Mostly the same. I'm not a fan of Braid, though I did like the rewinding time idea I hated its execution and it felt like a chore to complete the game. Hell, I'm a completionist and to this day I've never bothered booting it up again to get the speed-run achievement.

  • @PerrydactylShow
    @PerrydactylShow 8 років тому

    I really enjoyed the insight on Blow's puzzle design philosophy. Interesting stuff.

  • @irekit
    @irekit 4 місяці тому

    Thank you so much! This helped a lot with my puzzle game.

  • @ayior
    @ayior 6 років тому

    This reminds me of a small, brilliant and free game by the DigiPen Insitute of Technology called Perspective. Every Puzzle in this game gave me the feeling I just learned something about logic, and on top of that, it even made it feel like this knowledge is useful outside of the context of the game. I wish the game was more known.

  • @PlanetKhaos
    @PlanetKhaos 6 років тому

    That last bit about a puzzle being a meaningful epiphany made me wonder about what a puzzle game where the puzzles tie into the moral and ethical choices present in the game, where solving them can have a real impact on the characters and their arcs.
    Then I remembered the old "I have no mouth and I must scream" point and click was entirely that.

  • @stuwustudio
    @stuwustudio 8 років тому

    You're so much helping me with the development of my game.

  • @TheIronSavior
    @TheIronSavior 8 років тому

    I'm not a game designer, but I really like these analyses of game design.

  • @BleachWizz
    @BleachWizz 5 років тому

    this guy really understand what mathematics is. He's just not using numbers, he's using a build world with rules, like numbers have rules for combining them (addition, multiplication); then from these rules are consequences, and those consequences can be shown in levels, like equations that shown properties of these rules (a*(b +c) = a*b + a*c).
    Solving the level would be proving those equations and that gets you to the "I understand" feeling, that's the same feeling when you actually understand what that equation really means (f(x) = a*x, f(b+c) = f(b) + f(c); homomorphism between a number "b" added to another number "c" and these numbers multiplied by a constant "a" ).
    Perhaps no numbers could represent what he's doing but it's math nonetheless.
    I really love the fact that he's doing it with something else, even tough I'm sad no one seems to think that way or realize that; not sure which.

  • @MrBassRenegade
    @MrBassRenegade 7 років тому

    I'm making a puzzle game for my final project at school, and this video is super helpful

  • @joaomarcosdevargaswitcel9072
    @joaomarcosdevargaswitcel9072 8 років тому

    Thank you so much for the awesome content and especially by the subtitles!
    I'm brazilian and sometimes I had problems to understand just with the voice!

  • @angeldude101
    @angeldude101 5 років тому

    When I first saw a world puzzle in the Witness, I initially thought it was a neat Easter egg, how some of the landmarks resemble the puzzles themselves. Then, I think it was around the desert area, I actually clicked on one of these, and when the game responded, my mind was blown.

  • @PaMS1995
    @PaMS1995 7 років тому +4

    this makes me want to replay the witness so bad, but I'll never be able to have those a-ha moments again :(

    • @holyflutterofgod
      @holyflutterofgod 6 років тому

      Honestly? I don't think that's true. You might not be able to re-discover the _rules,_ but the game has so many puzzles that it's impossible to actually remember every solution! I've replayed the game three times, and enjoyed myself as much each time!!

    • @davinci818
      @davinci818 5 років тому

      @@holyflutterofgod Have you ever seen someone speedrunning The Witness? Those beasts can remember ALL solutions.

  • @JohnDuraSSB
    @JohnDuraSSB 8 років тому

    Interesting video as always, Mark!

  • @bluno9750
    @bluno9750 Рік тому

    I loved both Braid and The Witness its such a suprise that they were made by the same guy.

  • @CROWcolin2
    @CROWcolin2 7 років тому +2

    With the way you talk about the puzzles, you should do some looking into "insight" reasoning in cognitive psychology. It basically suggests that there are "insight" problems in life that require a different mechanism of reasoning than bottom up problem solving. That is to say that there are problems where the solver must break down their pre-conceived rules and limitations imposed on the problem and re-configure the way they look at it in order to solve it. Thus once they've changed the way they look at it, the answer is apparent - hence the "A-Ha" experience that comes with solving problems like in The Witness.

  • @sarthakmishra1415
    @sarthakmishra1415 8 років тому

    This is an amazing channel about the essence of game development. Thanks!!

  • @MrSiloterio
    @MrSiloterio 8 років тому

    5:14 was really profound for me. Why? I was just quite stuck on this exact puzzle earlier this day and after having realized the solution I mind-gasmed.

  • @benjoe1993
    @benjoe1993 7 років тому

    This is exactly what I needed right now. Thanks!

  • @D4RCKS0RC3R3R
    @D4RCKS0RC3R3R 8 років тому

    This was mind BLOWingly helpful, thank you

  • @cheesecakelasagna
    @cheesecakelasagna 5 років тому +1

    Same thing with writing. It's more organic when you let the it flows and you follow or build based on the currents it provides.

  • @pianoforte611
    @pianoforte611 2 роки тому

    Braid changed the puzzle game genre in such a profound way. Before Braid there were pretty good puzzle games - Chip's challenge, Lost Vikings and others. But the later levels in those games were always convoluted or difficult to execute due to skill based elements. Braid's harder levels look simple but are devilishly tricky to figure out. And modern puzzle games have taken that formula to heart and surpassed it. Steven's Sausage roll has some levels with so few elements that they feel like they should be trivial. But then it takes you 2 hours to solve.

  • @SoundChaser23
    @SoundChaser23 8 років тому

    Brilliant video, as always...
    Keep it up!

  • @Skund79
    @Skund79 5 років тому

    This approach can be applied to teaching yourself a skill.
    Present you with a simple problem and look how we normally would solve it. Look at all the other possibilities and how it could be apllied
    The next step would be either a variant of it or a more complex (more layered) problem.
    By doing so you learn the skill not simply applying a solution, it also teaches you adaptability

  • @MidoriMushrooms
    @MidoriMushrooms 7 років тому

    puzzle games are my bread and butter so this is really interesting to me
    also thanks for the music citation because I recognized the gravity ghost music but forgot which game it was from, I really should revisit this game.

  • @MellowGaming
    @MellowGaming 8 років тому

    Braid was a great experience to play through. Only ever went through it once but I was obsessive until I had done everything. I need to get around to playing The Witness too. I get the feeling it'll drive me insane though.

  • @lukostello
    @lukostello 8 років тому

    I absolutely love this. You put to word why I love puzzle games.

  • @tonymiranda5675
    @tonymiranda5675 Рік тому +1

    Does this concept has an official name?
    I know it as "Using all the Buffalo" from a Snoman video explaining this same technique. But he used that name because he couldn't find an official term.
    Heres the video if you want to learn about this concept
    ua-cam.com/video/3YXGcw1tvtc/v-deo.html&ab_channel=SnomanGaming

  • @Rekhan4242
    @Rekhan4242 8 років тому +1

    Thanks for the video, I don't make games but I find how they are made very interesting. You just convinced me to look into picking up The Witness!

  • @tomasdesouza2847
    @tomasdesouza2847 4 роки тому

    The Witness is one of the best games I ever played.
    1:58 "Blow himself" LOL

  • @bzsgzs
    @bzsgzs 8 років тому +17

    This video is just as good as the game

  • @Heavy-P
    @Heavy-P Рік тому

    I imagine when designing a puzzle Jonathan Blow looks around and say aloud "Who's the smartest guy here?", then points to himself and says "Me.", he follows that up with slowly nodding and then makes a puzzle.

  • @recursivesystem7379
    @recursivesystem7379 6 місяців тому

    Jonathan Blow is brilliant.

  • @kylew6425
    @kylew6425 7 років тому

    Brilliant. Extremely helpful videos as i'm going through Games Design in university

  • @losalfajoresok
    @losalfajoresok 8 років тому

    I never finished Braid. Damn...I must play it now!
    PS: your videos are geting better and better Mark!

  • @joseluispcr
    @joseluispcr Рік тому

    so basicly he creates rules and research interessing consequences of it, that makes the game consistent and logical

  • @VladyVeselinov
    @VladyVeselinov 7 років тому

    The pads in the beginning are blowing my mind

  • @maxsamarin9002
    @maxsamarin9002 6 років тому

    Great views on puzzle design, thanks for sharing these!

  • @MegaAnakinn
    @MegaAnakinn 8 років тому

    Your videos aré awesome! The edition, content, narrativa, all of it is awesome and helpfully :) Saludos desde México