All Master Class Blueprints are available on FactorioBin Overview and direct links to all Blueprints: nilaus.atlassian.net/l/cp/HBEUm524 (Pastebin links no longer work)
This is cool I just made my own late game smelting build and it’s scarily close to your design. I really have adapted your building style and I’m very satisfied and having fun with it.
I know this is old but found slight improvement on copper and iron smelter. With current design the 4th furnace from top actually builds up iron and you dont get full saturation it looks like it but using a belt checker it "misses" a plate every so often. If you change splitter at top to input priority left it alleviates it. And actually fixes it enough to remove the bottom beacon and produce 45.1 plate per second
@@mikewhite4502 use a circuit cable, the red or green one, connected to a single tile of belt. Have it report belt contents. Hold, not pulse. Connect that to a speaker that goes off if the amount of that item is less than what the belt's supposed to be able to hold... 4?
@@ryudomesayonara5806 Seconded: Always. Nilaus is great, and thorough, but he also knows what he's good at and knows what he isn't, and doesn't pretend to be something he's not. He's a fantastic Factorio Generalist.
@Sling Take a closer look at each beacon's area of influence. Watch his video closer. See how the area of effect blocks compound on one machine? #Location,location,location!
@Sling Yep. For one machine, I think you can have up to twelve surrounding it. And in a line, up to eight for one machine. And when you add another machine near the original, then you only have to add two beacons to still get an equivalent effect for said machine.
When we are talking about steel columns, direct insertion is more beneficial anyways because: - Iron plates smelting is still output-limited by a transition belt, making the plates smelters idle 20% of time anyways. In your case it will actually prevent from using full belt of ore. - Less belts, less inserters = better UPS and costs. - You can use actually 4 full belts of iron ore to produce a full belt of Steel as opposed to your situation where you will still need 10 for the city block that you showed. Also for just ore it makes more sense to make a 2-belt smelting columns but twice as long, to make a better fit into a city block.
I did just that and if you put pair of direct insertion back to back you can remove a few beacons that only touch the iron smelters, making it almost perfect ratio.
The ratio Iron Ore to Steel is 5-in=>1-out, so even with +20% productivity, 4 full belts of iron ore, are the equivalent of 4.8 regular full belts, which is not enough for 1 full belt. Am I missing something? Edit: Oh nevermind, I did miss something. the 20% productivity bonus are applied twice. So I get 4.8 belts of iron plate out, which then turn into 4.8/5 * 1.2 > 1 Steel. Yeah that makes sense.
@@Arbmosal In the steel smelting Iron Ore passes smelters 2 times both having +20% - Iron Ingots/Steel Ingots. These two are multiplied as a result, so actually to produce a full belt of steel you will need 5/1.44 = 3.47 belts of iron ore
I just do not like using productivity modules in smelters. The smelter does not consume the whole belt. Smelters with speed modules are smaller and the rates a better. In the case of the stone smelter, you would more likely connect the two output belts from the smelter together, because they just exactly do half of the belt, but with productivity modules it produces more and you loose the advantage of them if you try to connect them anyway. But i agree with using productivity modules in steel smelting, but only in the actual steel smelters. Engimage1 added a comment bellow and explained it better. Nilaus, nice work anyway, you helped me with factorio a lot. Continue like this. Also sorry for my mistakes.
I tried design mine before looking this. Pretty efficient in furnace cost (40 against 55 for your) for... twice the amount of beacon. I don't know why I was thinking the furnace was more important than beacon. I guess I had a lag brain ^^ thanks for this master class, very interesting. For some random reason, I don't have the same number as you (and also as to redone it since my base is in the other way and it's not rotable, as you said) but I still produce one full belt so...
I like to understand it, so i always try to rebuilt it from memory after watching this. Result: alt-tab multiple times ;-) But i prefer this over just grabbing the blueprint and plopping it down.
for the stone brick one, you can probably input 2 belts side by side. Have a stack inserter pointing north grabbing from the left lane and a stack inserter pointing west. Wouldnt use the full input but its output we really care about, overflow can easily be redirected towards a different array. That said, I love the video a lot of great ideas and I loved seeing these mods for testing purposes.
Note about stone brick smelting: A full belt of stone consumed produces ~27 bricks per second, and you can actually calculate the LCM of 27 and 45 to get 135, meaning for 5 of the stone smelting modules, you get 3 full blue belts of stone bricks.
You should develop "whole city block" builds for everything! You have solar, nuclear and steel; every block of your base should be packed, leaving just the paths clear! (I guess ad-hoc solar to fill gaps here and there?)
Go big when you have reach yellow sicence. I always use main bus from begin and when i have bots, i switch to module base. First, use local smelting, right next to the ores. And then build a giant new base, just leave old main bus base there.
I found it a bit better to separate the input inserters to different tiles, so they don't fight for resources - the "first" inserter grabs from the emerging underground to the side smelter, and the in-line inserter is thrle same as in your design. It reduces the flailing over the belt almost entirely. I do love your way of implementing power poles (my similar design uses just about twice as many :)
Problem with advanced iron smelting blueprint: restricted iron plates production + appearing of steel plates with the iron plates. Explanation of the problem: When the items stops moving in the belts of the main bus, the stack inserters start picking the iron and putting it into the furnaces which mean steel plates start coming out. This lead to two problems: 1- steel plates will be able to reach the main bus in the belts dedicated to iron plates. That's possible through the side where there is an underground belt at the end that leads directly to the output. 2- the production is cut to the half (without cosidering the steel appearance at the other side) the splitter with the filter that normally would let iron plates (at the left side of the belt) flow and stop the iron ore (at the right side of the belt) will be blocked by the steel plates cuz of the filter condition of the splitter. Solution: 1-producing no more steel plates: change the stack inserters to a filter stack inserters with the whitelist containing only iron ore. 2-unblocking the splitter(s): stand at the left Output of the splitter(where there is no filter) press F to pick up the steel plates when the splitter blocked and release when the splitter is moving, wait there until all steel plates are picked and wait to make sure that everything is working fine. 3-start from the start of your smelters output and go through your factory picking up the steel (or just pick what you can see and wait until an assembler is blocked then fix it like I did xD) Nilaus, thank you so much for all the blueprints and guides you made, they really helped me a lot to make this game even more fun, I struggle with severe depression and suicidal thoughts (can't afford to get help) and this game helped me a lot which means your guides and all the blue prints you made for free helped me a lot. So thank you and I hope you improve the blue print with the filter stack insters ♥️
Thanks for this fix, was getting very frustrated with steel all throughout my base in the iron lines. The filter stack inserters seemed to do the trick. The BP definitely requires the filter stack inserters.
It should not happen Oo There is no output of iron plate on the iron ore belt and no imput inserter on the output iron platebelt Oo Have you checked for any mistake in the blueprint ?
For stone brick, a 5 row stone brick smelter feeding 3 blue belts is almost perfect for full belts in and out. It over produces by around a half an item a second
For the Iron and Copper one I have to place an extra inserter on the last furnace before the furnaces that are taking part of the balancing to ensure that I have a fully compressed belt
there is a more "efficent" way of smelting iron and copper by using less modules. You are using 13 smelters in your example but by using 14 u will end up using 3 beacons less. in total you spare 6 speed moduls but need extra 2 for production. saving 4 moduls in total. Also you do not have a middle beacon that only effects one smelter saving you that while having it copied next to each other. Its not a lot but thinking about having that build copied multiple times it can save you some moduls that can make a diffrents in the early transition to your mega base. i have uploaded a print of that couple of years ago to factorioprints (view with -LNialWnOW4sveAGICxF) have a nice day
I copied this build but moved the offloading inserters one spot to the right/top and added one more belt block to force lanes. That way you can mirror it any way you like.
Nilhaus! design is working great! but I've found a potentially disastrous flaw! the iron ore/copper max tier provides perfect throughput. but when used in a iron ore smelting scenario. normal stack inserters, when the iron ore main bus is in a surplus state, begin to draw in iron from the shared output belt, starting to feed the electric furnaces with iron plates to create Steel. this proceeds to halt the filtered splitters, while the other side of each lane begins to output steel at full capacity, causing what i call a "Steel Jam" the steel then travels down the assembly line, jamming up more and more facilities until its corrected. Ive found cutting the belts where the Steel Jammed belts ends, manually picking up the steel, unloading furnaces, and using filtered stack inserters set to iron ore, and iron plates respectively, solves this issue.
@@Nilaus it does happen i am having the same problem. i popped down your 12 beacon blueprint and fed it an iron ore input. It ends up smelting steel and i cant figure out how to stop it
Two days ago, I did my own project of Iron Beacon smelting. I fit 540 plates/s structure in 100x100 city block. 12 segments which are 1 tile narrower than yours.
How do you actually feed the full city block steel smelters? I can only think of a method that involves building outside the city block for the unloading of iron ore.
If you have a city block base, why bother tying iron and steel smelting into the same block? Since iron ore stacks to 50 and plates to 100, isn't it better to just ship iron plates to a pure steel smelting block? Doing the 2 steps together seems better if you do it right next to a big iron mine outpost, and then ship the steel from there into the city block base, since steel plate stacks are so much more compressed compared to iron ore Thank you for the video
You can get a full belt with just 19 (12 less) beacons and 16 (3 more) smelters. With the same beacon reuse pattern. Much less space, power and resources needed. Just make 5 short columns beacons | smelters | beacons | smelters | beacons.
@@kevingallineauii9353 This one is with 21 beacons (because of power grid placement) and has slightly above 1 belt production... Still 10 less beacons and much more compact. Had some different versions. Tweak to taste.
Hmmm.... 1 column consumes 33 ore/second, and outputs 9 steel/second. So why not input 1 full blue belt at 45/second for an output of perhaps 13 steel per second? Difficult to fit that length of line into a city block? How many full belts of iron ore @ 45/s for 1 full belt of steel? Something for me to think about....
I guess it's easy to combine belts from 5 columns that each output 9/sec into one full 45/sec blue belt. If you have a column that outputs 13/sec, then combining belts will get messy: 3 columns will output 39/sec - not fully compressed; 4 columns will output 52/sec - overproduction, a waste. My math might be off, but It looks like the smallest number that has 13 and 45 as factors is 585 (13x45), so you'll need at least 45 columns to hit a perfect output (13 full belts).
It's 3.5 belts of ore for 1 belt of steel. Personally, I do 4 columns combined into 1 belt, and just accept the overproduction. However, I also like the 12 beacon designs with direct insertions, so they are not running at full capacity anyway.
beauty of this design is, that one row of furnaces with beacons from both sides requires around 80-120MW of electricity ! I tried this in my game and it's totally not maintainable without nuclear reactor and also the level of pollution is tremendous, due to lots of boilers it requires.. when it comes the time, when you can afford this, you probably will have everything completed, it's like more for fun than of real use..
@@Nilaus , any guide to avoid balancers , especially while loading and unloading from train so that the whole train won't wait for a single filled/unfilled compartment
4 роки тому+1
Thanks for the video. Why not 12 beacons per furnace?
I made a really good 12 beacon build and included it in the blueprint book, but I wouldn't recommed it since it uses 28 more beacons to save 4 furnaces. That is the reason it is excluded
4 роки тому+2
Thanks for the reply. I think you have a very good argument. As engineers, we always want understand the design decisions. And we should never take anything for granted. I like these videos, and I was wondering why people used 8 beacons when it was technically possible to use 12. I have tried to find the sessions in twitch but I always get lost in that page, and I always get distracted watching random channels. :D Thanks for sharing.
@ other builds, like blue chip assemblers ask for the 12 beacon design, especialy when you go factorio extended and use those super expensive prod6es but smelting should be kept at a reasonable build cost, so i don't realy see the benefit :)
I know this is 4 months late, but why did you use a merging splitter in the copper/iron smelter at all? You could've just had the extra inserter put items on a belt that sideloads directly into the output
i dont know if i am stupid, but why do you use red moduls, with full blue, you have 500% speed and the same output amount and speed. The difference is red moduls produce more pollution and use more energy...
If you consider if from the resources saved perspective it becomes clear. He’s not trying to get 1.2blue belts of iron plate. He’s using 0.833 blue belts of iron ore for the same plates he always wanted. That 0.833 number comes from 1/1.2 as the 1ore consumed per 1.2plate produced. It’s even more substantial for recipes in assembly machines. For Green Green circuits with 4 productive modules, you get 1.4Circuits per 1iron plate. Or in other words if you want 1 belt of green circuits iuou only need to supply 0.71 (1/1.4) of iron plates. Now consider working your way back from the end of the rocket chain or yellow science, multiplying the materials needed for each step by 0.71 or 0.833, you end up massively reducing the amount of production needed at each level underneath. If you want to play about use the Kirk McDonald calculator and ask for a 1k SPM base, observe raw resource requirements, now ask it to set default module as productive 3 in settings and observe the drop. Now you might ask, why do I care how much is consumed, the world is infinite? But your time and supply chains aren’t the most I can fit through a one tile gap is 2700 I/m, and I can only shove enough traps in into a dual tracked smelter to supply about 16belts of each ore (assuming a 4cargo wagon set up). Ie the eventual bottleneck you’re fighting isn’t your ore supply, it’s the logistical bottleneck of trains and belts(and eventually robots if you wanted), where you can’t force more resources through the same space within the factory.
@@Jamesaepp It's free in the sense that it is a known, fixed cost. The beacons and modules have a cost to create, but once placed, they continue to cost nothing to maintain except power. The additional resources created by the production modules scales with your base. At endgame, the 20% bonus can save you several new mining outposts, miles of train tracks, and most importantly, your time as a player.
I think you are missing a solar/accumulator/laser/satelite build from the basic stuff (tho that's not hard to design, it IS hard to optimize) before you move on to the advanced parts.
At this point, it's just fooling around. But hey, it's efficient, albeit rather costly. Now if only there was an automated way to collect fish in an efficient manner... Until then, may as well use Spidertrons to collect the resources and atomic bombs to nuke the hell outta those biters whilst establishing an outpost megabase. Too bad the official implementation never included the hydrogen bomb. It will still be a bit tricky in managing oil by remote control. Then again, this is Factorio, the micro managing simulator! XD
Remember, it's half the length of the original. Plus, it's tileable! Just remember to fully saturate your belts according to their movement speed to maximize your Input to Output ratio.
The simple fact that this can not be freely rotated completely puts me off of this design. I guess I'll just settle for more furnaces and a little bit more occupied space, but I want to be able to rotate my creations however fits bets in my factory.
@@jgischer (oopse we both meant productivity) I guess i'm assuming the decision someone makes would be bi...er... trinary: either speed, efficiency, or productivity: just thinking you'd want to focus on just one of those depending on your goals? i'm just curious what drives a decision to use a mix, especially as it's specifically been demarcated by smelter vs beacon... Acceptable answer also = "meh, seemed like a nice idea at the time" :)
@@opium32 If you look at wiki.factorio.com/Module there is a paragraph that begins "There is however synergy between productivity modules and speed modules..." I think if you read that and follow the links, they can explain better than I can.
I think you can make steel smelting by using right furnaces to make iron and left ones to make steel (you put iron and steel on the same conveyor), and then filter the steel out of iron.
@@canebro1 what do you think happenes when the copper trying to enter the prioritized left side to see it's full that tick? exactly .. it switches over to the right exit which instantly leads to it filling up a hole on the right half of the belt when ever possible .. by that filling the holes without several additional belts or even additional inserters
@@TheyCalledMeT I was looking at the wrong timestamp, the splitter does have 2 inputs at that point. I see no reason why your solution would not work. Probably just personal preference.
@@canebro1 well in that case i prefer efficiency, less energy and less ressource usage plus less ups .. sure all just minimal but it would be more efficient :)
Hi, I was mainly using the kirkmcdonald calculator, but when I put there 13 furnances on copper plate, add the modules and beacon exactly how you have, that calculate output of only 31.2 items/second... kirkmcdonald.github.io/calc.html#data=1-0-0&rate=s&min=3&k=off&belt=express-transport-belt&mprod=20&dm=p2&db=s2&dbc=10&vis=box&vd=down&items=copper-plate:f:13&modules=copper-plate:p3:p3;s3:10 Could somebody explain that? Thanks!
When I put speed modules into beacons, the blue icons for the modules don't show up in the middle. They only show up on the side and faintly. How can I get them to show up in the middle like you have them? It's really hard to tell sometimes if I missed modules.
Because productivity modules reduces the need for the machine it is in, and also everything below in the chain. For smelters it's only miners and ore trains, but for higher products it is a lot. Speed modules reduces the amount of productivity modules that you have to produce by making one machine with productivity modules count for several. Since modules are expensive this is well worth it. Power is not very expensive to produce in comparison. If you want to use efficiency modules the best is to do it with electric mining drills.
But why? If you are not going to use prod/speed why bother using electric furnace at all? Quite sure steel furnace still more efficient power-wise even if you have to use unmoduled miner to supply them with coal (well, not much, only 1/9 the power you would use for eff2 x2 electric furnace)
@@TheyCalledMeT True. The amount of Iron Plates generated should be 20% greater than the amount of Iron Ore consumed, and the amount of Steel Plates produced should be 24% of the amount of Iron Plates consumed rather than only 20%. Assuming the build consumes 450 Iron Ore per second (the amount carried by 10 Blue Belts), it should make almost 130 Steel Plates per second (almost three blue belts' worth). But there's the catch: at 26:50, Nilaus uses the Max Rate Calculator on just one column of the steel smelting city block, and it reads that it consumes only 32.312 Iron Ore per second; slightly more than one _red_ belt's worth. At 27:24, you can see this reflected in the Max Rate Calculator's reading for the whole block: The whole thing consumes only 323.125 Iron Ore per second (rather than the 450/sec that the belts are capable of delivering), and outputs 91.65 Steel Plates per second, which is in fact approximately 323.125 * 1.2 * 0.24. (It's slightly less because the design doesn't consume Iron Plates quite as fast as it produces them, so the math still checks out.)
Or stack two of the Brick production above each other, only one extra belt of stone in along the side and brick out at the same side just between the two sections, then put a few of those next to each other, have a massive amount of production, probably more than you need, depending on how much paving you want to do.
@@Nilaus yes of course. But what is the sense of this? Any hidden achivment? I meam factorio is a great Game and i finished IT three times now and still optmizing my Base with every Game i start but i have no Motivation to Play beyond the launch of the first Rocket And of course these Workshop Videos are great
All Master Class Blueprints are available on FactorioBin
Overview and direct links to all Blueprints: nilaus.atlassian.net/l/cp/HBEUm524
(Pastebin links no longer work)
Factorio: Bacon Smelting
This is cool I just made my own late game smelting build and it’s scarily close to your design. I really have adapted your building style and I’m very satisfied and having fun with it.
We have all internalized nilaus as an algorithm in our heads we use when designing in factorio. 😅
always put lights in the design
I feel there is very little room for creativity with smelters and I think most of us have something very similar if not exactly the same.
with beaconed smelting builds there is very little wiggle room.
I know this is old but found slight improvement on copper and iron smelter. With current design the 4th furnace from top actually builds up iron and you dont get full saturation it looks like it but using a belt checker it "misses" a plate every so often. If you change splitter at top to input priority left it alleviates it. And actually fixes it enough to remove the bottom beacon and produce 45.1 plate per second
Is there a belt checker mod? Also thanks for the info
@@mikewhite4502 use a circuit cable, the red or green one, connected to a single tile of belt. Have it report belt contents. Hold, not pulse. Connect that to a speaker that goes off if the amount of that item is less than what the belt's supposed to be able to hold... 4?
I sometimes think I know Factorio. Then I watch videos like this and realise I am a complete noob 😂
There's always someone better.
@@ryudomesayonara5806 Seconded: Always. Nilaus is great, and thorough, but he also knows what he's good at and knows what he isn't, and doesn't pretend to be something he's not. He's a fantastic Factorio Generalist.
@@DanielHartz Plus he's always to willing to learn and improve upon what he knows. That's what makes him pretty great.
@Sling Take a closer look at each beacon's area of influence. Watch his video closer. See how the area of effect blocks compound on one machine?
#Location,location,location!
@Sling Yep. For one machine, I think you can have up to twelve surrounding it. And in a line, up to eight for one machine. And when you add another machine near the original, then you only have to add two beacons to still get an equivalent effect for said machine.
I'm new to the game me and a group of friends got it about a week and a half ago and have over 150 hours in it these videos helped so much thank you.
When we are talking about steel columns, direct insertion is more beneficial anyways because:
- Iron plates smelting is still output-limited by a transition belt, making the plates smelters idle 20% of time anyways. In your case it will actually prevent from using full belt of ore.
- Less belts, less inserters = better UPS and costs.
- You can use actually 4 full belts of iron ore to produce a full belt of Steel as opposed to your situation where you will still need 10 for the city block that you showed.
Also for just ore it makes more sense to make a 2-belt smelting columns but twice as long, to make a better fit into a city block.
I did just that and if you put pair of direct insertion back to back you can remove a few beacons that only touch the iron smelters, making it almost perfect ratio.
The ratio Iron Ore to Steel is 5-in=>1-out, so even with +20% productivity, 4 full belts of iron ore, are the equivalent of 4.8 regular full belts, which is not enough for 1 full belt. Am I missing something? Edit: Oh nevermind, I did miss something. the 20% productivity bonus are applied twice. So I get 4.8 belts of iron plate out, which then turn into 4.8/5 * 1.2 > 1 Steel.
Yeah that makes sense.
@@Arbmosal In the steel smelting Iron Ore passes smelters 2 times both having +20% - Iron Ingots/Steel Ingots. These two are multiplied as a result, so actually to produce a full belt of steel you will need 5/1.44 = 3.47 belts of iron ore
I just do not like using productivity modules in smelters. The smelter does not consume the whole belt. Smelters with speed modules are smaller and the rates a better. In the case of the stone smelter, you would more likely connect the two output belts from the smelter together, because they just exactly do half of the belt, but with productivity modules it produces more and you loose the advantage of them if you try to connect them anyway.
But i agree with using productivity modules in steel smelting, but only in the actual steel smelters. Engimage1 added a comment bellow and explained it better.
Nilaus, nice work anyway, you helped me with factorio a lot. Continue like this. Also sorry for my mistakes.
I tried design mine before looking this. Pretty efficient in furnace cost (40 against 55 for your) for... twice the amount of beacon. I don't know why I was thinking the furnace was more important than beacon. I guess I had a lag brain ^^ thanks for this master class, very interesting. For some random reason, I don't have the same number as you (and also as to redone it since my base is in the other way and it's not rotable, as you said) but I still produce one full belt so...
I like to understand it, so i always try to rebuilt it from memory after watching this. Result: alt-tab multiple times ;-) But i prefer this over just grabbing the blueprint and plopping it down.
everybody in their own style :)
That whole city block steel build is amazing!
for the stone brick one, you can probably input 2 belts side by side. Have a stack inserter pointing north grabbing from the left lane and a stack inserter pointing west. Wouldnt use the full input but its output we really care about, overflow can easily be redirected towards a different array. That said, I love the video a lot of great ideas and I loved seeing these mods for testing purposes.
Note about stone brick smelting:
A full belt of stone consumed produces ~27 bricks per second, and you can actually calculate the LCM of 27 and 45 to get 135, meaning for 5 of the stone smelting modules, you get 3 full blue belts of stone bricks.
being a recent factory engineer going into endgame and making a module production area, this and other endgame builds and whys of builds are helpful
You should develop "whole city block" builds for everything! You have solar, nuclear and steel; every block of your base should be packed, leaving just the paths clear! (I guess ad-hoc solar to fill gaps here and there?)
..and then make mod that allows to put that city block on back of 4 spidertrons and move around.. think of it like world on back of elephants!
@@moofymoo holy shit that's a fantastic idea
Maybe one idea: if you have an beginner base, how to plan big and how to get there. I always struggle with this...
Thanks for great content!🙌
you mean the start or the transition?
yeah, the complete transition, planning, starting, progressing. 👍
Go big when you have reach yellow sicence. I always use main bus from begin and when i have bots, i switch to module base. First, use local smelting, right next to the ores. And then build a giant new base, just leave old main bus base there.
@@percynguyen92 oh, that sounds good👍, thanks!
I found it a bit better to separate the input inserters to different tiles, so they don't fight for resources - the "first" inserter grabs from the emerging underground to the side smelter, and the in-line inserter is thrle same as in your design. It reduces the flailing over the belt almost entirely.
I do love your way of implementing power poles (my similar design uses just about twice as many :)
Problem with advanced iron smelting blueprint: restricted iron plates production + appearing of steel plates with the iron plates.
Explanation of the problem:
When the items stops moving in the belts of the main bus, the stack inserters start picking the iron and putting it into the furnaces which mean steel plates start coming out. This lead to two problems:
1- steel plates will be able to reach the main bus in the belts dedicated to iron plates. That's possible through the side where there is an underground belt at the end that leads directly to the output.
2- the production is cut to the half (without cosidering the steel appearance at the other side) the splitter with the filter that normally would let iron plates (at the left side of the belt) flow and stop the iron ore (at the right side of the belt) will be blocked by the steel plates cuz of the filter condition of the splitter.
Solution:
1-producing no more steel plates: change the stack inserters to a filter stack inserters with the whitelist containing only iron ore.
2-unblocking the splitter(s): stand at the left Output of the splitter(where there is no filter) press F to pick up the steel plates when the splitter blocked and release when the splitter is moving, wait there until all steel plates are picked and wait to make sure that everything is working fine.
3-start from the start of your smelters output and go through your factory picking up the steel (or just pick what you can see and wait until an assembler is blocked then fix it like I did xD)
Nilaus, thank you so much for all the blueprints and guides you made, they really helped me a lot to make this game even more fun, I struggle with severe depression and suicidal thoughts (can't afford to get help) and this game helped me a lot which means your guides and all the blue prints you made for free helped me a lot. So thank you and I hope you improve the blue print with the filter stack insters ♥️
I have the same problem. This blueprint only works with copper. Just use the 8 beacon print.
Thanks for this fix, was getting very frustrated with steel all throughout my base in the iron lines. The filter stack inserters seemed to do the trick. The BP definitely requires the filter stack inserters.
It should not happen Oo There is no output of iron plate on the iron ore belt and no imput inserter on the output iron platebelt Oo Have you checked for any mistake in the blueprint ?
@@Teneombre there are two belts containing both iron ore and plates on either side of the 12 beacon setup, and it gets jammed with steel
For stone brick, a 5 row stone brick smelter feeding 3 blue belts is almost perfect for full belts in and out. It over produces by around a half an item a second
For the Iron and Copper one I have to place an extra inserter on the last furnace before the furnaces that are taking part of the balancing to ensure that I have a fully compressed belt
there is a more "efficent" way of smelting iron and copper by using less modules. You are using 13 smelters in your example but by using 14 u will end up using 3 beacons less. in total you spare 6 speed moduls but need extra 2 for production. saving 4 moduls in total. Also you do not have a middle beacon that only effects one smelter saving you that while having it copied next to each other. Its not a lot but thinking about having that build copied multiple times it can save you some moduls that can make a diffrents in the early transition to your mega base.
i have uploaded a print of that couple of years ago to factorioprints (view with -LNialWnOW4sveAGICxF)
have a nice day
27:48 but we need to balance the 8 belts from the train station to the 10 belt input, so it would be very nice of you to show us a 4 to 5 balancer
your placement of power poles looks so uniform and elegant. mine look like a game of micado :D
A dope-on-steroids city block for two blue lanes of steel... Holy moly, this is cereal
Did you mean surreal?
I copied this build but moved the offloading inserters one spot to the right/top and added one more belt block to force lanes. That way you can mirror it any way you like.
Your videos are very informative and I enjoy watching them between sets at the gym
Testing the blueprint, it doen't have electricity poles for the later half of the smelters
Nilhaus! design is working great! but I've found a potentially disastrous flaw! the iron ore/copper max tier provides perfect throughput. but when used in a iron ore smelting scenario. normal stack inserters, when the iron ore main bus is in a surplus state, begin to draw in iron from the shared output belt, starting to feed the electric furnaces with iron plates to create Steel. this proceeds to halt the filtered splitters, while the other side of each lane begins to output steel at full capacity, causing what i call a "Steel Jam" the steel then travels down the assembly line, jamming up more and more facilities until its corrected. Ive found cutting the belts where the Steel Jammed belts ends, manually picking up the steel, unloading furnaces, and using filtered stack inserters set to iron ore, and iron plates respectively, solves this issue.
That doesn't happen. It is not how inserters/furnaces work
@@Nilaus it does happen i am having the same problem. i popped down your 12 beacon blueprint and fed it an iron ore input. It ends up smelting steel and i cant figure out how to stop it
guess i just have to use stack filter inserters
Really, really like your late game Steel build, I'm using it and it works well. thanks
should use a red belt for the steel input, that will limit to 30 and then two yellow belts to combine in the center.
Two days ago, I did my own project of Iron Beacon smelting. I fit 540 plates/s structure in 100x100 city block. 12 segments which are 1 tile narrower than yours.
I LITERALLY JUST setup my lategame smelting 2 hours ago man ... why ... WHY NOW ... I have to tear it all down.
lol same here. i was all thinking, yeah, this is super efficient. no where close to this lmao.
I feel you, man. Still, where there is construction, there also exists demolition. And blueprints.
Thank the heavens for the idea of blueprints!
slap factorio extended with mark 2 and 3 smelters and beacons .. and prod/speed 6es into the mix THEN it gets insane ;)
How do you actually feed the full city block steel smelters? I can only think of a method that involves building outside the city block for the unloading of iron ore.
Love your guides and masterclasses. Keep up the good work.
Was looking for this yesterday, thanks!
YES i have been trying to make a mega base and i needed to make some of these but was struggling.
If you have a city block base, why bother tying iron and steel smelting into the same block? Since iron ore stacks to 50 and plates to 100, isn't it better to just ship iron plates to a pure steel smelting block? Doing the 2 steps together seems better if you do it right next to a big iron mine outpost, and then ship the steel from there into the city block base, since steel plate stacks are so much more compressed compared to iron ore
Thank you for the video
You can get a full belt with just 19 (12 less) beacons and 16 (3 more) smelters. With the same beacon reuse pattern. Much less space, power and resources needed. Just make 5 short columns beacons | smelters | beacons | smelters | beacons.
I don't suppose you could post a quick BP here?
@@kevingallineauii9353 This one is with 21 beacons (because of power grid placement) and has slightly above 1 belt production... Still 10 less beacons and much more compact. Had some different versions. Tweak to taste.
Hmmm....
1 column consumes 33 ore/second, and outputs 9 steel/second.
So why not input 1 full blue belt at 45/second for an output of perhaps 13 steel per second?
Difficult to fit that length of line into a city block?
How many full belts of iron ore @ 45/s for 1 full belt of steel?
Something for me to think about....
I guess it's easy to combine belts from 5 columns that each output 9/sec into one full 45/sec blue belt.
If you have a column that outputs 13/sec, then combining belts will get messy: 3 columns will output 39/sec - not fully compressed; 4 columns will output 52/sec - overproduction, a waste.
My math might be off, but It looks like the smallest number that has 13 and 45 as factors is 585 (13x45), so you'll need at least 45 columns to hit a perfect output (13 full belts).
It's 3.5 belts of ore for 1 belt of steel. Personally, I do 4 columns combined into 1 belt, and just accept the overproduction. However, I also like the 12 beacon designs with direct insertions, so they are not running at full capacity anyway.
I normally never coment on videos but I must say it, you are a life saver
Cheers Nilly! Good Times, great content.
Great, just in time for upgrade my megabase, thanks.
beauty of this design is, that one row of furnaces with beacons from both sides requires around 80-120MW of electricity ! I tried this in my game and it's totally not maintainable without nuclear reactor and also the level of pollution is tremendous, due to lots of boilers it requires.. when it comes the time, when you can afford this, you probably will have everything completed, it's like more for fun than of real use..
4:09 the void belt i looking for😂
I think 5 of those stone smelters can be combined into 3 full belts of output
het , this was so useful for my new build, Thank you
i have a question , do balancers have effect on ups ?
yes they do
@@Nilaus , any guide to avoid balancers , especially while loading and unloading from train so that the whole train won't wait for a single filled/unfilled compartment
Thanks for the video. Why not 12 beacons per furnace?
I made a really good 12 beacon build and included it in the blueprint book, but I wouldn't recommed it since it uses 28 more beacons to save 4 furnaces. That is the reason it is excluded
Thanks for the reply. I think you have a very good argument.
As engineers, we always want understand the design decisions. And we should never take anything for granted.
I like these videos, and I was wondering why people used 8 beacons when it was technically possible to use 12.
I have tried to find the sessions in twitch but I always get lost in that page, and I always get distracted watching random channels. :D
Thanks for sharing.
@ other builds, like blue chip assemblers ask for the 12 beacon design, especialy when you go factorio extended and use those super expensive prod6es but smelting should be kept at a reasonable build cost, so i don't realy see the benefit :)
I know this is 4 months late, but why did you use a merging splitter in the copper/iron smelter at all? You could've just had the extra inserter put items on a belt that sideloads directly into the output
At 11:00 can't you just make a left turn from the right output of the splitter to keep it nice and stacked?
No, because the input into the splitter isn't saturated. You need to give it more inputs on the right lane.
i dont know if i am stupid, but why do you use red moduls, with full blue, you have 500% speed and the same output amount and speed. The difference is red moduls produce more pollution and use more energy...
With productivity modules, you get more iron plates out of the same amount of iron ore. Free stuff!
If you consider if from the resources saved perspective it becomes clear.
He’s not trying to get 1.2blue belts of iron plate.
He’s using 0.833 blue belts of iron ore for the same plates he always wanted. That 0.833 number comes from 1/1.2 as the 1ore consumed per 1.2plate produced.
It’s even more substantial for recipes in assembly machines.
For Green Green circuits with 4 productive modules, you get 1.4Circuits per 1iron plate. Or in other words if you want 1 belt of green circuits iuou only need to supply 0.71 (1/1.4) of iron plates.
Now consider working your way back from the end of the rocket chain or yellow science, multiplying the materials needed for each step by 0.71 or 0.833, you end up massively reducing the amount of production needed at each level underneath.
If you want to play about use the Kirk McDonald calculator and ask for a 1k SPM base, observe raw resource requirements, now ask it to set default module as productive 3 in settings and observe the drop.
Now you might ask, why do I care how much is consumed, the world is infinite?
But your time and supply chains aren’t the most I can fit through a one tile gap is 2700 I/m, and I can only shove enough traps in into a dual tracked smelter to supply about 16belts of each ore (assuming a 4cargo wagon set up). Ie the eventual bottleneck you’re fighting isn’t your ore supply, it’s the logistical bottleneck of trains and belts(and eventually robots if you wanted), where you can’t force more resources through the same space within the factory.
20% free stuff. Yes please
@@Jamesaepp It's free in the sense that it is a known, fixed cost. The beacons and modules have a cost to create, but once placed, they continue to cost nothing to maintain except power. The additional resources created by the production modules scales with your base. At endgame, the 20% bonus can save you several new mining outposts, miles of train tracks, and most importantly, your time as a player.
I think you are missing a solar/accumulator/laser/satelite build from the basic stuff (tho that's not hard to design, it IS hard to optimize) before you move on to the advanced parts.
Amazing work as always!
What's the mod that shows the input/output resources?
Are you sure you don't want to work on industrial logistics?
At this point, it's just fooling around. But hey, it's efficient, albeit rather costly. Now if only there was an automated way to collect fish in an efficient manner...
Until then, may as well use Spidertrons to collect the resources and atomic bombs to nuke the hell outta those biters whilst establishing an outpost megabase. Too bad the official implementation never included the hydrogen bomb. It will still be a bit tricky in managing oil by remote control.
Then again, this is Factorio, the micro managing simulator! XD
Very cool design. I like the idea of city blocks.
The steel one is only difficult for you nilaus because you insist iron smelting must happen on location. lol.
Can this design be used in the Korvarex Enrichment Process?
So, no 12b for maximum production? I thought you would show the 12b Honeycomb smelter setup.
Check the blueprint book if you are interested in an optimised 12 Beacon build. It is not very good in my opinion so it didn't make it to the video
Looks like the posted blueprint doesn't have the stone brick smelting?
Remember, it's half the length of the original. Plus, it's tileable! Just remember to fully saturate your belts according to their movement speed to maximize your Input to Output ratio.
What is that throughput plugin for factorio? The one where you can see consumption / output of a selected area?
Also Happy Christmas Nilaus, you logistical genius!
max rate calculator
ive played this game for almost 800h by now and still feel like a total noob xD
Don't worry. You are not the only one. But it diesn't matter. It's still fun
The simple fact that this can not be freely rotated completely puts me off of this design. I guess I'll just settle for more furnaces and a little bit more occupied space, but I want to be able to rotate my creations however fits bets in my factory.
It can be rotated, just not _mirrored_
How do you move buildings around like that, without deleting them or opening your inventory?
is this steel smelter meta ? or does smelting iron at the mine spot and transport them by train also work or is that like really bad ?
I found this on Pastebin before I this video was even up lol
Wow...
Hey Nilaus! You post on pastebin as well?
Not surprising. It's like the rectangular shape with rounded corners that mobile phones have regardless of manufacturer. It's the most obvious design.
What's the reasoning behind the efficiency modules in the smelters? Why not just more speed modules?
Ore isn't infinite, and the efficiency modules give you something from nothing. 10 ore makes 12 plates, instead of 10.
@@jgischer (oopse we both meant productivity) I guess i'm assuming the decision someone makes would be bi...er... trinary: either speed, efficiency, or productivity: just thinking you'd want to focus on just one of those depending on your goals? i'm just curious what drives a decision to use a mix, especially as it's specifically been demarcated by smelter vs beacon... Acceptable answer also = "meh, seemed like a nice idea at the time" :)
@@opium32 If you look at wiki.factorio.com/Module there is a paragraph that begins "There is however synergy between productivity modules and speed modules..." I think if you read that and follow the links, they can explain better than I can.
@@jgischer yeah nice thanks. That led to this post forums.factorio.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=41475
I think you can make steel smelting by using right furnaces to make iron and left ones to make steel (you put iron and steel on the same conveyor), and then filter the steel out of iron.
I love your designs so much. Thanks a lot for sharing them ^^
10:33 why don't you just prioritize the splitter and add a belt going left fed by the currently not used right side of the splitter?
No, because the input into the splitter isn't saturated. You need to give it more inputs on the right lane.
@@canebro1 what do you think happenes when the copper trying to enter the prioritized left side to see it's full that tick?
exactly .. it switches over to the right exit which instantly leads to it filling up a hole on the right half of the belt when ever possible .. by that filling the holes without several additional belts or even additional inserters
@@TheyCalledMeT I was looking at the wrong timestamp, the splitter does have 2 inputs at that point. I see no reason why your solution would not work. Probably just personal preference.
@@canebro1 well in that case i prefer efficiency, less energy and less ressource usage plus less ups .. sure all just minimal but it would be more efficient :)
Still struggling to get them to output on both sides...
Hi, I was mainly using the kirkmcdonald calculator, but when I put there 13 furnances on copper plate, add the modules and beacon exactly how you have, that calculate output of only 31.2 items/second...
kirkmcdonald.github.io/calc.html#data=1-0-0&rate=s&min=3&k=off&belt=express-transport-belt&mprod=20&dm=p2&db=s2&dbc=10&vis=box&vd=down&items=copper-plate:f:13&modules=copper-plate:p3:p3;s3:10
Could somebody explain that? Thanks!
It can be mirrored, just needs to be mirrored on both axis...
It can't be mirrored but it _can_ be rotated no problem.
When I put speed modules into beacons, the blue icons for the modules don't show up in the middle. They only show up on the side and faintly. How can I get them to show up in the middle like you have them? It's really hard to tell sometimes if I missed modules.
@@jasongates6894 In Settings>Interface there is a part called "Alt-Mode", you just need to check the box "Show beacon modules in alt-mode"
What are the buildings on the side of the furnaces?
Beacons. They transmit effects, in this case speed effects.
Am I the only one to consider using efficiency modules to save on power? Why does nobody use them at all?
Because productivity modules reduces the need for the machine it is in, and also everything below in the chain. For smelters it's only miners and ore trains, but for higher products it is a lot.
Speed modules reduces the amount of productivity modules that you have to produce by making one machine with productivity modules count for several. Since modules are expensive this is well worth it.
Power is not very expensive to produce in comparison. If you want to use efficiency modules the best is to do it with electric mining drills.
But why? If you are not going to use prod/speed why bother using electric furnace at all? Quite sure steel furnace still more efficient power-wise even if you have to use unmoduled miner to supply them with coal (well, not much, only 1/9 the power you would use for eff2 x2 electric furnace)
What if I want the most efficient way in means of electricity?
You can use just regular smelting arrays with no beacons or if your insane you can use efficiency modules
What's the mod for statistic? and what's the mod you used for purple underground belt etc.
it is sad that factorio cannot play with my Amd 2700x ...
The steel seams to have 10 belts in and 2 out?
Take a closer look at the top. He even mentions some things about it.
Well, yeah. It takes five iron plates to make one steel plate.
@@E-102_Gamma no you forgot the 2 times 20% buff
@@TheyCalledMeT True. The amount of Iron Plates generated should be 20% greater than the amount of Iron Ore consumed, and the amount of Steel Plates produced should be 24% of the amount of Iron Plates consumed rather than only 20%. Assuming the build consumes 450 Iron Ore per second (the amount carried by 10 Blue Belts), it should make almost 130 Steel Plates per second (almost three blue belts' worth).
But there's the catch: at 26:50, Nilaus uses the Max Rate Calculator on just one column of the steel smelting city block, and it reads that it consumes only 32.312 Iron Ore per second; slightly more than one _red_ belt's worth. At 27:24, you can see this reflected in the Max Rate Calculator's reading for the whole block: The whole thing consumes only 323.125 Iron Ore per second (rather than the 450/sec that the belts are capable of delivering), and outputs 91.65 Steel Plates per second, which is in fact approximately 323.125 * 1.2 * 0.24. (It's slightly less because the design doesn't consume Iron Plates quite as fast as it produces them, so the math still checks out.)
@@E-102_Gamma well his goal was 2 blue belts which he slightly overshot
Or stack two of the Brick production above each other, only one extra belt of stone in along the side and brick out at the same side just between the two sections, then put a few of those next to each other, have a massive amount of production, probably more than you need, depending on how much paving you want to do.
i still don´t get why to expand your base after you launched your first rocket...
launch more rockets...
@@Nilaus yes of course. But what is the sense of this? Any hidden achivment?
I meam factorio is a great Game and i finished IT three times now and still optmizing my Base with every Game i start but i have no Motivation to Play beyond the launch of the first Rocket
And of course these Workshop Videos are great
If you want a bigger challenge then I recommend space exploration mod pack
Boop
yea and your trains load and unload where? lol